38 special snub ballistics gel test
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- snub nose .38 special ballistics gel test using 5 different loads, including the hornady 158g xtp, 125g xtp, 110g critical defense, federal hst micro, and the mag tech guardian gold 125g
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Lots of people knock the .38 as insufficient but all I know is when I needed it the .38 came through for me and I made it to retirement.
Thank you for your service
Keep my air weight 38 at close hand as well
Sir, you deserve the best life has to offer.
Thank you! From one old cop to another.
It's popular where I live, I know a few people who carry the special .38 over their 9mms myself included.
Growing up in an Italian neighborhood in Kansas city back in the 80's the .38 Snubnose was the gun I saw everywhere, and today even though I own high capacity semi auto handguns I find myself still carrying a 38 Snubnose most of the time, oh yeah and a switchblade.
The Italian area of Kansas City isn't an area of law abiding people ?
I see a knife, I run.
I find it more comfortable to conceal carry, you can barely notice its there.
Gotta have the switch blade man. SE Ks here
Lol..does your girlfriend keep the switchblade in her hair too....it's a joke like the oldays ya know...didn't want it to sound like I was calling you a sissy or sum..I mostly carry my snub now that i need a new holster for my glock 26
I was an Officer in 70's , 38 spl was our main rounds. Some Plus P semi-jacketed hollow points were issued. Some were used in line of duty. The round worked
a 38 spcl snubby has never been claimed to be a elephant killer. Its a pocket pistol in a small revolver. Its doing what IU would expect . Its lethal and serves it s purpose.
Working security at a local hospital years ago, I came across a homeless man in the ER. He had a terrible, large, unsightly scare on his lower abdomen. I asked him what happened. He said he got shot in the stomach with a 38 special lead hp. According to him they had to remove 12 feet of intestines among other repairs. 38 is no joke.
He got to the hospital and lived.......38 didn't take him out of the fight
@@istartedajoke1704
Clearly the threat is eliminated.
Gut shots aren’t that lethal anyway.
@@istartedajoke1704 SOUNDS LIKE IT DID
@@istartedajoke1704 Was he still a threat? I don’t even carry a 38 but I know how efficient the round can be. People have been killing people with calibers like 38 for years. Is it the best option? Nah. Does it work? Same as other outdated calibers like 45 ACP or 357 Magnum. It’ll kill a man. 👌🏻
@@istartedajoke1704Just because you survive a gunshot doesn't mean that you stayed in the fight. For all we know, that guy passed out from massive trauma and internal bleeding.
About 5 years ago I was tracking a deer that I had shot a little far back (20ga slug through his liver) and to track him I was carrying my S&W 642 loaded with Remington Golden Saber 38sp+p 125gr (part#GS38SB). When I got about 15 yards from him he stood up and I shot him twice. He fell down backwards instantly and his antlers actually stuck in the ground. I found both bullets still in him. They had mushroomed flawlessly. They both went through shoulder, then heart, and stopped when they hit the far shoulder. Not sure if they still call it golden saber, but these loads worked perfectly out of my 642 in a living target. Nice video and good job using a wide variety of test rounds that are commonly available for a snub nose 38 Special+P.
Another great video. I carried that exact S&W revolver as my back-up for over a decade, with a 124g Speer +P. Retired now, still my EDC go to.
.38 special, It's been around since 1898 and it is the most popular cartridge through out the world, there is a reason it's still used today! Of all the handguns in various calibers I have I find myself packing a 38 snubbie more frequently than any other, if not my primary it's my backup. I use the Buffalo Bore 158 grain +P LSWCHP in all my carry snubbies, about as close to getting the original FBI load.
Can you give me more info about original FBI ammo? How did you figure out Buffalo Bore was as close as it gets?
The "FBI" load was actually designed by Winchester-Western (now just Winchester) for the St. Louis P.D. back in the 1970's or late 1960's, hence the Index Number of "X38SPD" and later "W38SPD" with the SPD being for St. Louis P.D. The FBI adopted it several years later. I chronographed them from my 4" Service Revolver at just over 900 fps. Back then. They expanded somewhat from my 2" Model 10 S&W, but the expansion notably increased when fired through a 4" .38. Test medium was water jugs. (Bare Jugs)
Their standard LSWCHP is still hotter than the OG FBI load. Their +P is no joke.
The 38 Special is a great round. There is nothing wrong with it. It does its job just like it has for over 50 years on the streets. Expansion or no expansion.
120 years...
Yes even if it doesn't expand. The 158 grain didn't expand but it turned backwards with because of the longer length will do more damage. Plus these fixed sight guns are generally sighted for 158 grain bullets from the factory. Accuracy is king and penetration is queen.
@@lylesmith5079As the king I'm always accurate when I penatrate the Queen.
@@IAmNoeyes that joke didn't go over as well as anticipated huh
@@istartedajoke1704 I thought it was gonna slap.
We used Remington 158 grain LSWCHP in our off duty back up .38 Special revolvers. It expanded the best from a 1 7/8 inch barrel. When I was chatting with Mas Ayoob, I mentioned this to him and said that this was the best load for a snub nose because the lead was the softest. We have better options now. The NYPD issued the Speer Gold Dot 135 grain +P for officers that carry revolvers. It was a very effective load.
Same here, I was an officer in a big city in 1977 and my service weapon was a S&W Model 10 with a bull barrel loaded with .38 special 158 grain semi-wadcutters all-lead bullet. That bullet went through and through two thighs but did stop the perps. They lost 75% of their blood but survived.
I actually carry that exact snubby with 110g critical defense in it. So this is good to see. Thank you young sir.
Best defense round for a .38 special:
158 grain soft lead hollow point.
No they are also dont expand good. The best ist 200gr Super Police. They tumble and dont over penetrate.
Soft lead hollow points do expand as opposed to hard lead hollow points.
Buffalo Bore makes a good one.
@@jungleno. I have seen some tests where they didnt expand well ruclips.net/video/OvVNtKicux4/видео.html
@@Gieszkanne interesting. Load data for that is pretty scarce I think. I have 1 copy of an IMR reloading pamphlet with that load for a cast lead bullet. 700x powder I think
Thats what I heard also. Paul harrel did a video on that and came to the same conclusion. 158 grn soft
I have switched my snubby 38 Spc loading to the 130 gr HP. I have used a S&W 36 for years, and gifted several to my brothers, SIL, and wife. Wad cutters are still a good choice; the 158 gr Keith Style bullet at regular load level universally affective! I have a departed friend's M36 that he carried for years for his Deputy and Jailer work; if you can hold it, it shots like a rifle!
I wouldn't want to get hit with any of them !
That HST made me a believer for definitely a snub nose. It has always mushroomed perfectly with every other semi auto and for federal to think ahead of the curve and design the HST for a snub nose and other barrel lengths, they beat all others.
my 38sp revolver ammo: wadcutter for alloy frame, ball for steel frame. i never bothered with all the fancy defensive ammo. i carry what i practice with, and i can hit with what i practice.
Good philosophy IMO.
As a retired police chief of 22 years, never underestimate the 38 spl. Carried a S&W 586 and a model 60 as a backup for years. I carried 158 gr lead Semi wadcutter hollow point +P .
I carry a 642 or a model 60 daily. Golden Sabre in both. Those rounds have always expanded perfectly in both .
I just finished working on a (1903)model 10 S&W with a six and a half inch barrel... I was shooting water jugs and checking expansion of different rounds. that HST is a monster in almost any platform I have seen it fired from. They have definitely made a believer of me. Like always man great video, Keep em Coming
Thank you
I tend to agree - velocity is likely the main factor in expansion or lack of it. Still, I'd wager that 4 out of 5 bad guys would prefer not to be shot with ANY of those rounds. Stay safe out there. Cheers.
I bet you’re right lol. Thanks for watching
Would a longer revolver barrel fix the issue?
@@dannydevito2275it would definitely help.
Good video. There are no 38 special loads that reliably expand from a 2 inch barrel. Stick to standard pressure wadcutters because penetration is essential, expansion is not. Better recoil control will also up your accuracy which is also essential. I will carry a wadcutter over any over hyped JHP. I really like the hardcast wadcutters from Buffalo Bore and Underwood which are both loaded right at the standard pressure max SAAMI specs.
100g Extreme Defender by Lehigh Defense is by far the best..
Try a win. 110 gr +p
I've the same problem. Beginning to believe it might be due in part to the cylinder gap of of 0.0111 on my Smith &Wesson 649. Carried a lot, shot very little. May see if Smith will warranty it.
@@donsettie4739 I do use those Hornady 110 +P in my quick strips and speedloaders because they have such conical bullet shapes they aid a stressful reload a lot in my timed trials. The downside is my old snub has fixed sights regulated to 158 grain and the new 642 is regulated to 125 grain so the 110 shoots quite a bit low,especially in the old gun, and I like shooting to POA/POI at least on my initial response.
@@indianajets they don't shoot as accurately out of a snub nose, not enough barrel to influence them, but heavy for caliber cast are going to be most accurate out of snubbies cause they are typically slightly oversized and swage down a bit as they enter the forcing cone which really helps with accuracy.
Thanks for the video.
I shoot an old 5-inch S&W 38 special that I inherited from my grandfather. I prefer to use 158 grain flat-nose soft-lead standard pressure ammo.
Those last two did well. With a 2 inch .38 I always liked an unjacketed +p158 grain LSWHP because of the lower velocity, but that 130 grain HST looks good.
I carried a chief special as my backup gun to my Glock 22 for many years. I was first issued Winchester LSWCHP and later Speer Gold Dot 125 JHP. In my opinion, the HST 130 grain is the best option in a snub that I’ve ever seen. As with any load however, there’s always a negative. I’ve found it tough to consistently reload any revolver, under stress, while using a speedloader or individual rounds. It’s profile is so blunt that they almost refuse to go into a cylinder’s charging holes.
Federal HST in all calibers has earned my respect and trust as EDC ammo.
Thank you sir. Just picked up a box of critical defense and was hoping the rounds would perform well out of a snub .. looks like they will 👍
Great video Sir! The gold dot 135 grain plus p works very well too
I'll take the HST designed for the snubbies, even though the penetration is not that great. A human's vitals are not 14 inches below the skin.
Exactly
14 inches in gel does not mean it'll go 14 inches in a person, people have varying tissue densities as well as a bone structure to contend with. Not to mention that it's never a guerentee you're going to get a square on shot, for example. If a bad guy has his arms at extension, the way he would if he was pointing a gun at someone, your shot may travel through his arm before it enters his chest cavity. Things like that. The testing protocol for 12-18 inches in gel just means that that round will still adequately penetrate in a human attacker.
fantastic video. thank you. exact same gun i have, now i know what i should keep it loaded with. thank you again.
Thank you . I will use the hornady Its easy to get, less expensive, and does the job. Big fan
Good straight up demo and comparison. Thanks for the video.
Thank you!
Great video. I think it all boils down to where you put the bullet in the bad guy. Also, the bad guy is not gonna ask you what type round you have in your 38. He’s just gonna see the pistol for what it is and know he doesn’t want to get blasted on.
I think I'd pick the 110gr +P... Looks like it has best of both worlds.... It did get some expansion AND it did penetrate past 12" BUT not past 18" so.... Based on the expansion and the penetration I think the 110gr +P was best here ...
Thanks for your work on these videos. I really enjoy your style and the information provided. Happy New Year.
Thank you very much. Happy new year!
I found that out of my snub nose, the 135 gr Speer Gold Dot +P seems to perform very well. I struggled getting the 125 XTP to expand, until I backed them with bullseye in the snubby in a +P load. They are a little tougher bullet and struggle in the 1 7/8” barrel. Great comparison. I’ve been curious on the HST. I’d pick the Critical Defense out of those, but I still prefer the gold dot.
That’s a solid choice generally
Sweet video, very informative just what I needed.
The info is great. Thanks for the hard work.
Thank you!
If you do a part 2 I'd love to see the Gold Dot hp short barrel load and the SJHP Remington +p.
The "FBI" load was actually designed by Winchester-Western (now just Winchester) for the St. Louis P.D. back in the 1970's or late 1960's, hence the Index Number of "X38SPD" and later "W38SPD" with the SPD being for St. Louis P.D. The FBI adopted it several years later. I chronographed them from my 4" Service Revolver at just over 900 fps. Back then. They expanded somewhat from my 2" Model 10 S&W, but the expansion notably increased when fired through a 4" .38. Test medium was water jugs. (Bare Jugs)
Nice test!
I've tested the Remington Golden Sabre 125gr +p in Clear Balistic out of my 340. Reliably goes 14" and expands to ~.60cal
Thanks for the video. Clear and to the point.
Good comparison. Important info. Thank you.
I roll my own 38 and 357. When I was making rounds for my LCR, I tried max power 38+P for a carry round. The gun handled them but my hand didn't like them. I lowered the spiciness a bit so they'll still be fun to shoot. I like Hornady XTP projectiles for carry ammo. I just use cheap bulk bullets for plinking stuff. If you like 38 and 357 revolvers, you need a lever gun that shoots them too. I have a Henry big boy. It's accurate and soft shooting in these calibers.
Excellent! You really know your stuff. Good video!
The hst is designed to expand but according to your test, the hornady seems the better choice. I've seen other test and it's probably one of the best all around snub nose self defense 38 special available. The recoil and flash is not substantial apparently. Thanks 👍
Buffalo Bore 158gr SoftCast LSWCHP-GC is what the firearms dealer sold me when I got my S&W 442. Zeta6 has great options for speed strips.
Dang..man, I'm starting to get addicted to your channel. I'm a 38/357 fan and you're putting up a lot of data, no one dose gel test where I live so it's interesting to see. We usually just shoot 2x4's, but of course one can't see expansion in them. Appreciate your time bro, keep em comin.
Thank you, I appreciate the kind words! I hope to continue to keep on keepin on lol.
Try plastic bottles like water/milk jugs filled with water.
Cheap, accesable & will allow for expansion.
@@pewpew9193 a clear water balloon with a good slow mo would probably work. But you’d need to see every frame 😂
Years ago like an FBI buddy had told me if it wasn't for the Department issuing the Firearms they were at the time he would still be carrying a 357
Mkay
Nice video! I would like to see more about your hand loading for the 130 grain Federal.
Good video. That performance looks pretty good I wouldn't want to get shot by any of them.
Nice job cleaning up that gel block. It had outstanding clarity to view the bullet travel. Wish you would’ve run a chronograph for those rounds, the 642 is such a common carry gun that a lot would like to know those results too. Thanks for the video!
Love these informational videos. I like that 130 HST bullet.
Thank you sir. It’s an innovative design for sure
@@thegundungeon howdy Sir, nice Vid! I've had notion of loading that HST format at the canelure myself. But may I inquire as to your starting load/powder thoughts you went thru when seating flush like a Wad Cutter as you did here this pls? (And, sidebar: is there a way to contact/email you off open mike? I've got some research and mussings that I "know" you might find "compelling"). Thnx, and shoot safe!
@@ED-2.0.9. I found quite a bit of conflicting load data out there on this bullet and the wadcutter style seating so I had a friend run some loads through quick load and went from there. And yeah you can email me at beeenbag45@gmail.com or message me on Instagram. Facebook deleted my page and profile so that no longer exists lol.
Well done.
Thank you
Seeing 21.99 on that box of critical defense really hurt my feelings. Just bought the same box yesterday for 36.99
Exactly what I needed to see the performance of Hornady critical defense 38 spl +P 110 gr FTX. I noticed I have several cases of this ammo and wanted to see if it's a keeper or just use it at the range. Definitely a keeper.
Thanks
Great video! More please.
Great video!! Thanks!
Just came across your video. Very good testing, subbed.
I carry the HST in my snubby. They seem to be very consistent. I didnt have good luck with the XTP. I tried them out of a Glock 27.
.38 special snub works. I’d say ask around but those dead men can’t tell tales.
Nice video. Thanks!
I have been looking at the Federal HST for awhile now and this video has sold it for me. While the penetration was below the 12" minimum I'll still take that expansion and wound channel any day! Thank for the great video! you have yourself a new subscriber!
Very interesting. Keep up the good work.
Thank you sir!
I carry the 642 everyday weather as back up and sometimes primary
Why do u even feel the need for a backup gun
I carry my Glock 26 as back up to my every day carry 642 air weight because
“ one is none and two is one when shit hits the fan!” The air weight snub is perfect for that up close shit and the Glock if it turns to a gun fight. 😁✌️🇺🇸
Great video!! Thank you for sharing!!
I run .38 158g soft point flat nose from my henry lever gun (17" barrel).. Out of the henry, let me tell you, the round becomes supersonic and it expands a ton with solid penetration. And we are talking JSP here..not even JHP. It has absolute stopping power. From a large frame wheel gun, I would feel confident too..but from the henry? It is incredible. Don't even get me started on 357 JSP/JHP from the henry. That is even better. I have penetrated 3A with it, with expansion, and with minimal recoil. But for any in-home situations....38 all day
I remember when the SWCHP was the FBI load of choice. Hardened lead semi wad cutter hollow point. 125 grain.
Ballsistics is a funny animal to play with.
Just my opinion, I think expansion in low velocity ammo is over rated, poking holes in vitals is priority number one. FMJ ammo is my choice in .38 .380 or .22. , the high velocity stuff makes more sense for expansion. Thanks for sharing.
158 gr SWC are excellent too.
The Hornady and Federal HST all do great In my 3” SW Model 36 and 4” Ruger Service Six. Good pen and good expansion. Guardian Gold had good penetration but little expansion.
38 special is a multipurpose round. You can make a basic low power round for new or young shooters to learn on or make a +P that kicks like a mule.
Just gave you your 450th sub. Keep up the good work 🇺🇲🇺🇲
Awesome! Thank you!
Looks like the hst might be good in summer , but I wouldn't trust it during winter with heavy clothes . Once again the Hornady CD plus P looks good .
Underwood Gold Dots are my snubby load , CD second choice
I have both of those rounds and pretty much prefer the 130 HST... I've seen tests where it did penetrate between 11 and 12.5". Always expanded. I think it comes down to ft lbs. The 110 always expanded but is a light for caliber round. I still think it's going to come down to shot placement first then penetration and then expansion. I think the 130gr comes the closest. I sometimes load five of those and for reloads in a speedloader Gold Dot 135 gr short barrel. They are accurate and easier for a quick reload than the wadcutter.
Very sound logic. I don’t see the hst lending itself to fast reloading lol
HST. I do carry a snub occasionally. Thanks.
Informative, thanks!
Great video, thanks
Its a round from decades ago of course better ones are out there but still it’s like driving a manual car. Revolvers are about feel and experience. I love it and wouldn’t want to get shot with it
The one thing that was unmentioned was grain weight also contributes accuracy in a nutshell the heavier the projectile out of a shorter barrel the more accurate within a reasonable shooting environment
Yes! My caliber of choice.
I’m a fan myself lol
Why not 9mm?
Justin go sit in the corner ...
158 grain lead round nose or round flat point. Try those. Maybe surised.
I’ve carried the 158gr soft lead HP for decades (not tested); replaced with HST +P recently.
It will get the job done!
Good videos, thanks
Great video. 👍
Federal stopped production on their "Micro" round, the one you mentioned about it being like a wadcutter. Given the choice I would choose either an Underwood 150 grain hard cast wadcutter @~ 1,000 fps or an Underwood 100 grain Extreme Defender at ~ 1,300 fps. (4" Barrel)
The 12-18 inch standard is for organic ordinance gel, not clear ballistics.
Today me and my wife are going to go pick up her .38. Pretty excited for her!
That’s awesome! Hope she got something she loves!
@thegundungeon She got this exact model here and she really loves it!
org hydro shock was the wad cutter hollow point with a stem in it made by scorpon co then they sold out ..they worked very well soft lead non +p made nice holes from alum frame j frame and charterarms 5 shot snubbys in 1970's
There are two bullets that work well in Snub nose revolvers. Speer short barrel 130 gold dot , and the Buffalo Bore 158 lhp in standard and plus p versions. 110gr lhp are useless. Jacketed bullets inn158!gr are useless. They lack expansion and don’t travel fast enough to need a jacket. The 38 snubbie works best with the 158 lhp. Penetrates and expands
+1 on the Buffalo Bore soft lead 158g hp
Corbon DPX 110 grain.
I like soft lead, about 12 hardness in the j-frame. I load a 125gr HP. It runs about 850fps. It expands. It is not going to over penetrate. I tried to duplicate the old FBI load with a 158, but in the snub nose, the velocity is not there. I like to pour my own lead bullets for certain applications.
My carry load for my 642 is Underwood 38+p 158 gr Keith I get 1103 fps and 20 inch pentration in gel
I like how so many "experts" bad rap .38 special as being "underpowered" or "weak" yet never accept the Pepsi challenge of taking one in the chest at 10 feet. Thanks for the video.
The problem is low pressure, and high barrel friction for jacketed boolitz. The lighter (shorter) boolitz have less bearing surface and hence lower friction. You can prove this too yourself by shooting both 158 grain lubricated lead and jacketed boolitz with the same powder charge and measure the velocities Be sure to use the same seating depth. Also, because of cylinder gap leakage, the small powder charges can leave heavier jacketed boolitz stuck in the barrel. That was pretty instructive on the penetration of all those - Note that you are starting with low energy as well with the 38. Any expansion takes some of that energy, and the combination of that and a larger frontal area will both serve to reduce penetration. Jerry (in my 45-70, same thing - 400 gr lead vs 400 gr Speer jacketed - the Speer is 200 f/s slower.)
They can say what they wont to about 38 special but it has been putting bad guys in the ground
for 120 years !!!!
@@iamnobody9542 Lead for the win. Decent weight lead bullets will get the job done and you don't need SR-71 velocities or Howitzer muzzle blast to do it.
130 grain HST is now my favorite .38 special +P round. Good review. Thanks.
Hst out of those choices however I’m a staunch believer in lead loads in 38 special saving the jacketed/plated stuff for 357.
That 110 gr FTX bullet looks like it performed the best. It probably had lighter recoil then the heavier bullets also.
Now is not the time to be buying ammo, but this weekend Dec. 19-20 the big Atlanta Expo gun show is in town. I hope I can find the HST .38 special at a responsible price. I’m going to hopefully find some different 22lr ammo. I have put a big dent in my 22lr ammo stockpiles. When I need to pop off a few the Ruger Mark lV and the 10/22 have been my guns of choice lately.
It seems to be an excellent bullet for this purpose
@@thegundungeon yeah. I normally don’t carry a snubbie, but if I did I’d like to have it loaded with HST.
My test media is that of feral hogs and coyote that roam my place out in the woods of East Texas. Now I haven't shot a factory load in 38Spl in decades. Thus, my handloads are what I use. One consists of a soft cast 160gr Ideal/Lyman Keith SWC HP loaded to 850 fps from the snubnose. With a S&W 642, I've dropped two hogs around 150# in weight with a single round to the heart and lung area. Both ran a few feet then dropped. Only one coyote has been close enough for the snubnose, and shot behind the shoulder area, he went down almost instantly. I don't load any jacketed bullets in a 38Spl, as it does not achieve the needed velocity for expansion. It is my belief that JHPs in a 38 snubnose is a waste of money and further, are not effective enough in creating reliable terminal damage.
Hollow point is a waste of time in a 2in barrel thats why i just carry FMJ+P. The hollow points don't expand so why waste the $$. Enjoyed the video great testing 👍👍
Hornady Critical Defense, .38 Special, FTX, 110 Grain. Is not perfect but if you look at every webpage or youtube channel this round is the one they test it against