After I abandoned acc because of the awful vr experience, I found adapting to ams2 driving physics very easy. The vr experience in ams2 imo beats out modded ac and racing, all it lacked was a decent competitive scene. Now that lfm is hosting, I'm very optimistic!
AMS2 has great potential. Hope they focus initially on just two or three series as each additional series dilutes the player base. This is also the key to ACC's success. If everyone is in one class there's little fragmentation of the player numbers
@@Shoniforce it's still in development. 1.6 sounds v promising. There's still some big issues but it can be fun in some scenarios it's got good potential to be better.
Hi Nils, great video! I know were you're coming from, you are regarding this from the Esports/competitive perspective. But I have to disagree. LFM is a competitive plattform, yes, but more like the ranking system of iRacing, it is not primarily a pro ESports league. It's meant for 'everybody'. The possible success of AMS2 on this plattform does not depend on how deep people go into the sim's mechanisms and how much you can carve out the limits. It depends on the overall reception by the people, what kind of races they want and what kind of races LFM is going to provide. As you point out, AMS2 provides a lot of different car classes and in my opinion it would be wise to deliver alternatives to the GT3 circus that ACC has become on LFM. In my opinion right now there are only two possibilities: go kind of the same route as iRacing, providing and switching week after week different tracks with different classes and in this case leaving out GT3/GT4 classes and leave that to ACC. The other possibility would be to go full on multiclass racing with currently popular endurance races like the WEC and IMSA provide, since exactly THAT is not possible in ACC. And I think this is the goal of LFM, especially with the IMSA licence that was aquired by Reiza. I personally would love to see more exotic things like Karting, too, or classic Formula racing... but of course the amount of servers will be limited. But please don't do this: Don't try to be a gatekeeper only welcoming 'theorycrafting' hi-profile drivers. I think both worlds can coexist: casual sim racers who want to compete in multiplayer not taking too much care about finetuning setups AND pro racers who want to fiddle with each single virtual screw on the cars. I think that is not even your intention, mind you, Nils! But the video can kind of come across like that and be misunderstood. And that would be - in my opinion - a fatal message, because AMS2 appeals a lot to people who don't want to test their limits and focus only on high profile racing, but more like to people who want to immerse themselves in various car classes but still in a racing environment. Imagine how cool it would be to stage multiclass racing with classic C-class prototypes and GT cars from that era... that is what AMS2 is about, not about being that one thousandth of a second faster than a rival. Leave that to ACC for this sim excells in this departement. I don't want to fully dismiss what you're saying here, since I think you are among those persons in the sim racing community with most knowledge and experience, sharing those in many ways with rookies and veterans alike. Just wanted to state my opinion on this, since I have high hopes for AMS2 to be a success on LFM by welcoming other drivers who are longing for good multiplayer in this sim. I am sorry if I come across as a d**k, that is not my intention and I don't seek attention by this nor do I want to fight over this. Just adding my humble 2 cents here.
My video is not about reaching lap time limits in ams2 persé - I'm not watching through the pro lense, but highlighting the positive side effects of there being a competitive environment in acc. By chasing limits ACC is being understood and that knowledge is shared (willingly or not) with the community. you might be underestimating the impact the pro crowd has on the overall available knowledge around ACC and that you are directly benefiting from that when you play the game in MP. the only reason there are multiple somewhat close grids on acc in lfm is that a large amount of players has somewhat equal knowledge and thus can drive on a somewhat equal level. it's because there are pro players, that you do not need to dial in your setup: they found out for you. you can buy it. not possible in ams2 so far. you wouldn't play if you were always 1s clear of the car behind and 1s behind the car ahead regardless if its down to setup, knowledge or driving skill. you wouldn't get racing like that as you'd always drive alone or get taken out. this is what ams2 is completely lacking so far and the initial result will be vastly spread out grids with huge lap time differences, hure error rate differences, many crashes, many penalties and infringements. this is the biggest threat to the success of the game on lfm. people will have bad experiences in the beginning and many will simply call it quits because of that. you need them to stick right away and thats much easier said than done. and that will then lead to emptier grids with less skill density and more alone driving. There is no such thing as a pick-up racing sim. a simulation by design is too complex for that. there are too many factors you need to wrap your head around and too long of a learning curve with such a high ceiling that the small amount of players scatters over a huge skill canvas. thats why i think there needs to be a quick joint learning experience of the most important stuff, else the races will be havoc
@@SimracingPopometer You made a great point as always. And I agree with most of what you said. But you know, for me the fun part of playing a game like AMS is that I don't know anything about it to be competitive. So it is kinda like when you go in a track day somewhere. Totally random. But as you said , in LFM it is really likely that we could not have close times in the grid. And there would be no racing. But at least at the beginning I can accept that, just to change sometime from ACC where you have to be at your absolute best all the time as it is always incredibly close. But inevitably, to guarantee a longevity to the game everything has to go has you explained in your answer to tobi here.
AMS2 reception will depend on how the first few experiences go for people. I just created my racecraftonline profile today, stuck at rookie here we go on a boring formula inter (the fun stuff was locked on other license) Qualified p1, got heavy suspension dmg in T1 from P2 and P3 contact and 1 spinning out. Ok DNF. Next race 1 hour? Bye cya I'm back to Assetto. I've had better racing in random public lobbies in AMS2. If I'm forced to grind something I don't want and be in a rookie session with max dmg on while people drive like retards and are slow. It was my first time driving the formula inter, and maybe first time in catalunia in AMS2, even tho I'm familiar with it. Instant pole. They slow and dirty? Ok now I get why the platform is almost empty. The A.I. actually races better than them. Oh wait, except long races, multiclass races, changeable weather races, Lapping traffic. Everytime there is decision making the A.I. messes up bigtime. Still my first and only race on a AMS2 ranking platform went as bad as possible. Worse than this would be just not being able to join.
I couldn't agree more with you. Totally on point mate! Well done. Hope that AMS2 becomes a success on LFM and with that in mind I wish everyone happy racing :)
I think it's also a strenght of AMS2 that there is still so much to discover for the pro-drivers (and eventually share the info), even though it might lead to differences in lap times in the beginning (hopefully people take that as a motivation to learn more and improve). Compared to AC and rF2, the strenght of AMS2 is definitely the amount of official content and no need to rely on mods (at all). It's much more "plug and play" game in that regard. I also see it as a positive that it's contantly expanded and improved, even though for the pro-crowd it might a bit annoying. Hopefully pro-crowd would learn to think it a bit like changing regulations and cars in IRL F1 where constant adapting is required from drivers (and manufactures). There is plenty of DLC and it might feel expensive at start, but for those who don't know, you only need to own the cars you drive and with tracks, it's enough that one person in the session has the dlc (you can't drive those tracks you don't own offline though). DLC is the main incorme for the developers, so buying it is enabling for them to develop additional content and improve the existing game. LFM + AMS2 has real potentional and I hope people will give it a real change there. I'm 100% certain that initial big numbers will wind down as with all new shiny things, that is expected and it's not a sign of failure, growing a stable player base is a much longer project than that. What I hope from LFM: - very few series initially to grow the player base (I would go as low as 2-3) + special events for spicing things up. - use cars that are easy enough to drive (but hopefully have enough depth for more experienced players) and "sexy" enough for bigger audience (there are plenty of fun cars in AMS2 that are too unknown for bigger audience) - advertising & trying to get some sponsors for rewards etc.
I can't wait for AMS2 to be on LFM. It's by far the best in VR (at least for my setup). And the only thing that's been lacking has been the multiplayer.
I would be happy to race AMS2 on LFM casually not having to worry about ELO. I love racing online and ELO is my main focus when racing on LFM, however there are times when I would like to have just a chilled race for fun I would say and AMS2 would be perfect for that matter
Das Problem Rfactor und AC sind die ganzen Mods, das ewige suchen, runterladen, Aktualisiern usw. Ich hoffe das LFM bei AMS2 einfach Original Content benutzt damit jeder einfach einsteigen und losfahren kann wie bei ACC
Mods gibt's auch für AMS2 zu Hauf, aber das wäre für eine Plattform wie LFM äußerst kontraproduktiv. Ich glaub für AC hat man nur sehr wenige gezielte Mods via LFM zugelassen, aber bei AMS2 ist das meiner Ansicht nach nicht nötig. Die meisten Mods sind entweder Project Cars Portierungen von Autos oder Liveries, beides nicht nötig, um mit AMS2 eine abwechslungsreiche Rennserien-Gestaltung zu haben.
Zumindest bei AC kann man theoretisch die Mods auch vom Server pullen. Ich bin der Meinung der Content Manager hatte dafür was eingebaut. Kann aber auch sein, dass ich das gerade verwechsel :D Ich sehe aber bei AMS genau das selbe Problem wie bei rFactor, eine zu kleine und zersplitterte Spielerbase. AMS wird bei der LFM genauso untergehen wie rFactor, da bin ich mir jetzt schon sicher. AC Evo wird wahrscheinlich das nächste große Ding werden.
LFM braucht aber auf kurz oder lang weitere Games, da ACC end of life ist und LFM lebt aktuell von ACC. Es ist von beiden Seiten eine Win Win Situation. AC Evo wird mit Sicherheit einschlagen, da bin ich mir sicher und einige andere Titel werden daran zu knabbern haben.
@@iPain3G I'd play ac on lfm if they used better mods there are so many good ones out there, why not instead of mazda cup use some old school muscle cars camaro, pontiac for Americans, monaro falcons for Australian
I think it would be good I have ac, acc and this a 1 stop shop to find a race would be great can drop into any of them depending on what races are running
What I really hope is that they do some fixed setup series, that's by far what I like most about iRacing... being able to focus ONLY on driving and forgetting all about setups is quite liberating actually.
Another good video from Nils! Personally I think it will largely depend on what content LFM chooses for AMS2. My choices would be: - IMSA (modern content with mostly balanced cars) - Modern Formula 1 (competitive, no BOP needed) - A season jumping through the centuries in formula 1 (GPL veterans like me would love it). Historic formula 1 is pretty fleshed out in AMS2 and easy enough to switch from car to car. Let's hope they make it a success!
I would be interested only if there was a series with locked setups and good BOP. So you either pick a car and adapt to a setup or pick a car based on your driving style. Then you care about your driving skill and race strategy. I work full time, don't have time to create setups, and don't like making them. I could buy one but it will never be as good as custom made by a pro player. I want a league that gives me a chance to win. Open setups leagues are strongly biased toward people with a lot of free time. And there are enough leagues for them.
tbh I am really surprised that AC 1 has died a death on LFM. Other than the MX5 its so quiet. I thought the variety away from GT3.......GT3.....GT3 would really bring people in but we've proven we like the easy life and would rather drive the same car on 15 tracks ad infinitum than have some variety. For me it is the slower speed cars I miss from ACC, the MX5, the Cupra, or the likes of the Vee and 1600 from iracing - if AMS2 content focuses there I think it will do well. If it tries to be another GT3 or GT4 series I fear failure.
True. I abandoned ACC when I went iRacing 1.5y ago. I had fun with LMP3 on LFM, but after a couple of months, there were maybe 2 splits. Sad. So I continued to punishing myself with iRacing. I hope there will be fixed setups. And it would be an insane advantage, if you could click on the LFM site, and the game skips the intro, everything, and just throws you in a practice server until the race starts. And automatically set the fuel and tires.
100% agree with you. That is the mistake LFM did with AC. They add a new sim which has 6000 cars to choose from! and they give you the same bullsh@it cars that are already in ACC, all those GT...something ultra downforce, sequentiall boring stuff. People who seek alternative racing have no place to go, but LFM refuses to see this. And mark my words the same is going to happen with AMS, which also has some amazing alternative content, and has great potential as a fun sim, but we are not going to see any of this. LFM will try to force everybody to play only the same old mainstream lazy crap like GT,LMS etc.....and before we know it it will be over.
I think one of the key factors in the success will be how active Reiza is. I think with rFactor 2 the company was building its race Central software for Le Mans Ultimate and was competing with lfm for drivers
LFM is a great service for ACC because its simple, its just GT3 and a limited amount of tracks. AC is failing because of the strange choices of cars and tracks with to many empty series. It is sad to say this but its to much choice for sim racing community. My advice is to start with ONE! series. an open set car class that is fun to race! then do about 8-10 different tracks changing each week. if the player numbers are good add another class.
4me! the experience u get with a new car and historic track in ams2 is unique! other games need a new class or whole new game to offer that kind of variety! hopefully reiza will implement the new eco system linked to these leagues so people will see how much love was put into the game!
My issue with ams2 is its final boss…the menu/setup option. Setting up triples shouldn’t be a huge undertaking. I’ve tried 3 times almost an hour a piece and I still can’t get it right.
setup work can be unnecessarily time consuming. Sometimes I think it's better if you were able to set only minimal setup choices on servers. For instance only being able to change front anti roll bar, rear wing, brake balance, brake pressure, so the driver makes the difference and not the millions of hour their team put into the setup.
@@petouser Exactly. I only have a couple hours 2-3 times a week I just wanna hop on and get to it and have a decent race. I know I'm not that skilled but adding setup to it just makes it even less competitive or fun.
Imho if Reiza wont get the physics done properly it will be hard for AMS2 to succeed as a competitive simracing game. I really liked AMS2 but after hundreds of hours in AC only, i tried AMS2 again and oh boy it felt like an arcade game compared to AC. It was really weird, I own a good DD wheel (Asetek Forte) but it felt like I was on a controller.
anything i've driven in the last streams felt fine and credible. not too lenient, etc. its different than other games, but at least the cars i drove not as arcady as the old f1 cars felt last patch
I think it won't do that good bcs it la different from acc, I think that at the core lfm it's actually acc, I'd say I'm decent in acc ( 2 3 second average from pro times ), also I see this in the races, I perform above average. So ams2 feels so wrong for me and I rly try to like it I don't have a DD wheel, probably like most of the players out there (maybe you know this info better) and it feels so hard to adapt also when I switch back to acc it makes me apraciete it even more, also we can see that even acc it's failing with the m2 and gets, witch are great but I think people don't have time or the paciance to learn them and they rather stick to the things they know and not "wasting" their few available hours having a bad race or a bad experience, but still it's a great thing for the ones that are already playing it, bringing them all together, also I think the whole process of buying things see what dlc contains what, possibility of wasting money and not liking it will be a turn off
its very surprising how few people are talking about this. when i heard i was very excited. lets go for vr ams2 has about £100 of dlc right now. im not up for having to purchase lots as thats what put me off acc on lfm as well as iracing in general
Everyone is excited about the new IMSA pack for AMS2 because it's people that want to experience the golden age of sports cars but without spending the kind of money for iRacing or dealing with the janky unfinished LMU. I think LFM can be successful for AMS2 but I also think there's a lot of pitfalls it needs to avoid. Focus on the content that people are excited for AMS2, that's the IMSA cars on IMSA tracks. Of course there needs to be some other content as well. So many some of the marquee content like the Brazilian stock cars and the CART cars can work and one slow rookie car but if it includes servers beyond that then it will more likely make it a ghost town like the other games besides ACC.
Sympathetic take. I have bougth the game in the end of 2022. Graphics great but physics I found truly underwhelming. I also bought AC, ACC and rFactor2 at that time. I have only been buying the DLCs of these last-mentioned three sims. AC by 2022 already virtually went for free. This is still not quite the case with regard to ACC and rFactor2. For the price of one rF2 car you can buy the AC base game. When I bought a new computer in the end of 2023, I did not even re-install AMS2. I immediately re-installed AC, ACC and rFActor2. I have STILL not re-installed AMS2. It has not escaped me that there have been numerous updates/patches. There are only a few I am willing to invest in, and AMS2 is just not one of these. I mean, with AC EVO in the offing... I''ll manage to ride it out until the release of AC EVO thank you very much. Luckily i bought AMS2 at a discount at that time.
I hope it's successful but on the west coast of America there's less than 200 people in prime time for me on LFM across all titles and series. I love AMS2 but for multi-player in my timezone iRacing is where the racing is. LFM is pretty much a Euro only service atm in my opinion.
Unfortunately, content creators often decide what is going to be successful or not, and as is almost always the case, they will try AMS2 on LFM for a couple of weeks and then go back to ACC or Iracing...
Let’s hope 1.6 brings a good platform to begin with. I love the game to just fire it up with friends in a lobby or single player lapping. I think it will be a tough transition to LFM but let’s hope it works out and brings some more people to the game with a consistent tyre model across all the cars. I think they need to do a lot of fixed setups to begin with. The setups being open at the start may turn people away.
setups are extremely easy to acquire tho, just head to time trial, add the ghost of the car track combo WR and youre good to go, how they'll fare in a full race distance is a different matter tho
Ams2 should make its own ranked system. I think sticking to an external site is nonsense. The iracing system always gains players and audiences. It should make people compete within its own system.
First thing comes to mind, zero skill required on the brakes in acc. People want instant gratification, not prepared to learn how to brake a car without just smashing the pedal.
AMS2 has amazing cars and tracks, but I think still handles poorly and has weird impacts. Driving the Cadillac LMDh/GTP in LMU and AMS2 back-to-back is particularly enlightening. AMS2's DLC is also extremely confusing and expensive for newcomers, sadly. Also, rF2 player numbers primarily dropped on LFM because it implemented its own native ranking system, something that has carried across rather successfully now into LMU.
Im a AMS2 in VR fanboy, and left LMU almost unplayed in my library. But you are quite right, these same cars on f.i Spa dont feel the same. Much more is happening in physics and FFB in LMU, makes AMS2 version feel quite tame (except risk of busstop chicane spinouts). Waiting in more anticipation for VR now!
rFactor2 mods + it bringing it's own ranked system and AC mods are the real problem. I'm hoping AMS2 just becomes a jump in and go option on LFM, otherwise it will suffer the same demise. I honestly prefer rFactor 2 and AC over AMS2 for the driving experience, but if they keep it simple and approachable AMS2 could work well.
I don't see how this game is going to work or get active on LFM. It's on par or even less of a playersbase then Rf2, but ofcourse Rf2 as software was trash and alot of low quality mods. AC is the biggest sim-game on steam, playerbase wise peaking often 3-4x the amount playing ACC. Yet AC is still rather dead then active for competitive racing on LFM. Ofcourse i hope AMS2 1.6 release and LFM integration will make it a succes but i doubt.
a lot of that info sadly is generic and how things are irl and _should_ be in the sim. that doesn't necessarily mean they _are_ like that in the game, which is what people actually need.
@@gru0058 no it's not. e.g. the setup guide is generic, how things **should** work. what people need is how the game **actually** works. every sim has its problems and some parts are more important than others because of development choices or shortcomings in the simulation result. a collection of everything is nice, but too much for people who don't want to become an engineer - people do not have time. as highlighted in the video, info needs to be precise and flow fast, else it's doomed. e.g. in iracing you go max camber, min pressure, minimum ride height (front), you'll want to find ways to reach the edges of the tech inspection. heat sensitivity of the tires is your main concern, don't ever go over the limit of the tire. in acc want to run softest springs, aggressive rake (or as far as the aero map still responds), maximum camber allowance, keep tires between 70-90C. pressures warm around 26.7, go low on the TC boom, ready to go. we need to narrow down the relevant factors and their respective reasonable window. make it accessible, it's the most important factor
@@SimracingPopometer if you have any ideas into how you can help with the wiki, why not contact the guy who has done it? I heard the setup info is the one from AMS2 so it might be correct. There’s also a page which summarises what all setup changes do. He also does informative videos which can also be a way he can help
They need to get ams2 physics in order, i have no interest in playing with car settings for primary reason of working around the games problems, i should be doing settings to optimize the car for the track.
This is interesting, I tried Racecraft online for the first time today for Automobilista 2. Only have rookie license (boring but ok) here I go. I qualified in Pole but had a bad start on Formula Inters, so P2 P3 take T1 first, 1 of them spins the rear on the other, the other hits me and I have very heavy suspension damage. (This is bad but I just tried to dive bomb the P1 guy who wrecked us 2, and after missing because I was still too far back from dmg suspension I quit) Next race is in one hour? same stuff? ok cya I'm off to Assetto Corsa. Rookie license with full simulation damage and people crashing in AMS2... what do they expect lol. I'm not even going to bother trying to "fight my way up" lol
Did you expected something different? Even iRacing is like that on rookies. How do you implement that? I understand you, as an experienced player, don't want to go trough those rookies scenarios, but you can't open all levels and classes to everybody because all races would be like that then. You as an experienced racer have the means to level up without much grinding to the upper licenses. I went to gold in a couple weeks without any problem, the key is to take some little effort from your part. If you don't want to take that effort, yeah it's not for you, but that's a you problem, not a service one. Damage on in rookies is a good setting, rookies needs to learn the proper way since the very beginning if you want to have good races later on on the ladder, to form a racing etiquette, to have consistent drivers, and to form a well behaved community where you want to go and race on.
@@MrNangu Well I tried to be as clean as possible and qualified in front etc just to get crashed with a 1h wait. What did I do? I went to LFM in AC, off season radicals, setup the car, qualified P1 or P2. Close racing but clean. I lapped almost the whole field up until P5 or even P4. No contact whatsoever. People moving out of my way etc. I've seen certain open servers on AC that have rammers all day long or servers that have kick and ban mod bots. But many many times I've found AC servers with a huge skill gap between all drivers but still everyone trying their best to stay clean. I might give racecraft online AMS2 a go again but I'm more tempted to just join a random room since i've had quite a few clean races on random lobbies.
I think the biggest mistake LFM could make is NOT have a GT3 series in AMS2 from the start. It remains THE most popular racing series online and provides a nice balance between speed, downforce and car control difficulty for non-aliens.
The reason AC isn't doing well is because it's a shitty racing game. It's a great hot lap sim. AMS2 is a great racing game. The only reason ACC is popular is because of the real life gt3 race series attached to the game. IMSA license will help legitimize the game especially in America.
Maybe I am biased, as I have almost 2.000 hours on AC (and the same on ACC). But if you race with the right people AC is actually a great racing game. I don't know if you are referring to contact physics when you talk about "shitty racing game" or something else. Yes I agree that AC has several flaws (that ACC inherited in several aspect to be honest), but I don't agree so much with your point. I had a ton of fun racing with AC.
@@____________________ok So I understood your point at first. And I agree with you 100 per cent. Also curbs are not good in AC to be honest. Each game has his flaws, even big flaws, and even if they are overall great games.
AC is doing quite well, maybe not as a competitive racing game in particular but the good thing is that AC offers so much more ... btw, AC has 3-4 times more average players than ACC and about 20 times more than AMS2.
After I abandoned acc because of the awful vr experience, I found adapting to ams2 driving physics very easy. The vr experience in ams2 imo beats out modded ac and racing, all it lacked was a decent competitive scene. Now that lfm is hosting, I'm very optimistic!
AMS2 has great potential. Hope they focus initially on just two or three series as each additional series dilutes the player base. This is also the key to ACC's success. If everyone is in one class there's little fragmentation of the player numbers
its been like 5 years since early access. or more idk. i love it and i play ams2 every day for fun but i wouldnt hold onto "potential".
@@Shoniforce it's still in development. 1.6 sounds v promising. There's still some big issues but it can be fun in some scenarios it's got good potential to be better.
Totally agree! This and fixed setups would keep the numbers high I believe
Hi Nils, great video!
I know were you're coming from, you are regarding this from the Esports/competitive perspective. But I have to disagree. LFM is a competitive plattform, yes, but more like the ranking system of iRacing, it is not primarily a pro ESports league. It's meant for 'everybody'. The possible success of AMS2 on this plattform does not depend on how deep people go into the sim's mechanisms and how much you can carve out the limits. It depends on the overall reception by the people, what kind of races they want and what kind of races LFM is going to provide.
As you point out, AMS2 provides a lot of different car classes and in my opinion it would be wise to deliver alternatives to the GT3 circus that ACC has become on LFM. In my opinion right now there are only two possibilities: go kind of the same route as iRacing, providing and switching week after week different tracks with different classes and in this case leaving out GT3/GT4 classes and leave that to ACC. The other possibility would be to go full on multiclass racing with currently popular endurance races like the WEC and IMSA provide, since exactly THAT is not possible in ACC. And I think this is the goal of LFM, especially with the IMSA licence that was aquired by Reiza. I personally would love to see more exotic things like Karting, too, or classic Formula racing... but of course the amount of servers will be limited.
But please don't do this: Don't try to be a gatekeeper only welcoming 'theorycrafting' hi-profile drivers. I think both worlds can coexist: casual sim racers who want to compete in multiplayer not taking too much care about finetuning setups AND pro racers who want to fiddle with each single virtual screw on the cars. I think that is not even your intention, mind you, Nils! But the video can kind of come across like that and be misunderstood. And that would be - in my opinion - a fatal message, because AMS2 appeals a lot to people who don't want to test their limits and focus only on high profile racing, but more like to people who want to immerse themselves in various car classes but still in a racing environment. Imagine how cool it would be to stage multiclass racing with classic C-class prototypes and GT cars from that era... that is what AMS2 is about, not about being that one thousandth of a second faster than a rival. Leave that to ACC for this sim excells in this departement.
I don't want to fully dismiss what you're saying here, since I think you are among those persons in the sim racing community with most knowledge and experience, sharing those in many ways with rookies and veterans alike. Just wanted to state my opinion on this, since I have high hopes for AMS2 to be a success on LFM by welcoming other drivers who are longing for good multiplayer in this sim.
I am sorry if I come across as a d**k, that is not my intention and I don't seek attention by this nor do I want to fight over this. Just adding my humble 2 cents here.
My video is not about reaching lap time limits in ams2 persé - I'm not watching through the pro lense, but highlighting the positive side effects of there being a competitive environment in acc. By chasing limits ACC is being understood and that knowledge is shared (willingly or not) with the community. you might be underestimating the impact the pro crowd has on the overall available knowledge around ACC and that you are directly benefiting from that when you play the game in MP. the only reason there are multiple somewhat close grids on acc in lfm is that a large amount of players has somewhat equal knowledge and thus can drive on a somewhat equal level. it's because there are pro players, that you do not need to dial in your setup: they found out for you. you can buy it. not possible in ams2 so far. you wouldn't play if you were always 1s clear of the car behind and 1s behind the car ahead regardless if its down to setup, knowledge or driving skill. you wouldn't get racing like that as you'd always drive alone or get taken out.
this is what ams2 is completely lacking so far and the initial result will be vastly spread out grids with huge lap time differences, hure error rate differences, many crashes, many penalties and infringements. this is the biggest threat to the success of the game on lfm. people will have bad experiences in the beginning and many will simply call it quits because of that. you need them to stick right away and thats much easier said than done. and that will then lead to emptier grids with less skill density and more alone driving.
There is no such thing as a pick-up racing sim. a simulation by design is too complex for that. there are too many factors you need to wrap your head around and too long of a learning curve with such a high ceiling that the small amount of players scatters over a huge skill canvas.
thats why i think there needs to be a quick joint learning experience of the most important stuff, else the races will be havoc
@@SimracingPopometer You made a great point as always. And I agree with most of what you said. But you know, for me the fun part of playing a game like AMS is that I don't know anything about it to be competitive. So it is kinda like when you go in a track day somewhere. Totally random. But as you said , in LFM it is really likely that we could not have close times in the grid. And there would be no racing. But at least at the beginning I can accept that, just to change sometime from ACC where you have to be at your absolute best all the time as it is always incredibly close.
But inevitably, to guarantee a longevity to the game everything has to go has you explained in your answer to tobi here.
AMS2 reception will depend on how the first few experiences go for people.
I just created my racecraftonline profile today, stuck at rookie here we go on a boring formula inter (the fun stuff was locked on other license)
Qualified p1, got heavy suspension dmg in T1 from P2 and P3 contact and 1 spinning out. Ok DNF. Next race 1 hour? Bye cya I'm back to Assetto.
I've had better racing in random public lobbies in AMS2.
If I'm forced to grind something I don't want and be in a rookie session with max dmg on while people drive like retards and are slow.
It was my first time driving the formula inter, and maybe first time in catalunia in AMS2, even tho I'm familiar with it. Instant pole.
They slow and dirty? Ok now I get why the platform is almost empty.
The A.I. actually races better than them.
Oh wait, except long races, multiclass races, changeable weather races, Lapping traffic.
Everytime there is decision making the A.I. messes up bigtime.
Still my first and only race on a AMS2 ranking platform went as bad as possible. Worse than this would be just not being able to join.
@@SimracingPopometer Thanks for the thorough reply! I appreciate that big time, Nils!
I couldn't agree more with you. Totally on point mate! Well done. Hope that AMS2 becomes a success on LFM and with that in mind I wish everyone happy racing :)
The best VR of any racing sim. Can't wait.
I think it's also a strenght of AMS2 that there is still so much to discover for the pro-drivers (and eventually share the info), even though it might lead to differences in lap times in the beginning (hopefully people take that as a motivation to learn more and improve).
Compared to AC and rF2, the strenght of AMS2 is definitely the amount of official content and no need to rely on mods (at all). It's much more "plug and play" game in that regard. I also see it as a positive that it's contantly expanded and improved, even though for the pro-crowd it might a bit annoying. Hopefully pro-crowd would learn to think it a bit like changing regulations and cars in IRL F1 where constant adapting is required from drivers (and manufactures).
There is plenty of DLC and it might feel expensive at start, but for those who don't know, you only need to own the cars you drive and with tracks, it's enough that one person in the session has the dlc (you can't drive those tracks you don't own offline though). DLC is the main incorme for the developers, so buying it is enabling for them to develop additional content and improve the existing game.
LFM + AMS2 has real potentional and I hope people will give it a real change there. I'm 100% certain that initial big numbers will wind down as with all new shiny things, that is expected and it's not a sign of failure, growing a stable player base is a much longer project than that.
What I hope from LFM:
- very few series initially to grow the player base (I would go as low as 2-3) + special events for spicing things up.
- use cars that are easy enough to drive (but hopefully have enough depth for more experienced players) and "sexy" enough for bigger audience (there are plenty of fun cars in AMS2 that are too unknown for bigger audience)
- advertising & trying to get some sponsors for rewards etc.
I can't wait for AMS2 to be on LFM. It's by far the best in VR (at least for my setup). And the only thing that's been lacking has been the multiplayer.
@@DanielBorn_BadAI same here, with my 3080 I get a lot Better experience in VR with AMS2 then in acc
I would be happy to race AMS2 on LFM casually not having to worry about ELO. I love racing online and ELO is my main focus when racing on LFM, however there are times when I would like to have just a chilled race for fun I would say and AMS2 would be perfect for that matter
Das Problem Rfactor und AC sind die ganzen Mods, das ewige suchen, runterladen, Aktualisiern usw. Ich hoffe das LFM bei AMS2 einfach Original Content benutzt damit jeder einfach einsteigen und losfahren kann wie bei ACC
this :)
Mods gibt's auch für AMS2 zu Hauf, aber das wäre für eine Plattform wie LFM äußerst kontraproduktiv. Ich glaub für AC hat man nur sehr wenige gezielte Mods via LFM zugelassen, aber bei AMS2 ist das meiner Ansicht nach nicht nötig. Die meisten Mods sind entweder Project Cars Portierungen von Autos oder Liveries, beides nicht nötig, um mit AMS2 eine abwechslungsreiche Rennserien-Gestaltung zu haben.
Zumindest bei AC kann man theoretisch die Mods auch vom Server pullen. Ich bin der Meinung der Content Manager hatte dafür was eingebaut. Kann aber auch sein, dass ich das gerade verwechsel :D
Ich sehe aber bei AMS genau das selbe Problem wie bei rFactor, eine zu kleine und zersplitterte Spielerbase. AMS wird bei der LFM genauso untergehen wie rFactor, da bin ich mir jetzt schon sicher.
AC Evo wird wahrscheinlich das nächste große Ding werden.
LFM braucht aber auf kurz oder lang weitere Games, da ACC end of life ist und LFM lebt aktuell von ACC. Es ist von beiden Seiten eine Win Win Situation. AC Evo wird mit Sicherheit einschlagen, da bin ich mir sicher und einige andere Titel werden daran zu knabbern haben.
@@iPain3G I'd play ac on lfm if they used better mods there are so many good ones out there, why not instead of mazda cup use some old school muscle cars camaro, pontiac for Americans, monaro falcons for Australian
AMS 2 is really the best of the bunch in my book.
Hope they get the multiplayer dynamics flowing so more people pick up on that awesome sim.
I think it would be good I have ac, acc and this a 1 stop shop to find a race would be great can drop into any of them depending on what races are running
What I really hope is that they do some fixed setup series, that's by far what I like most about iRacing... being able to focus ONLY on driving and forgetting all about setups is quite liberating actually.
This is what I'm hoping for too. The setups on AMS2 are confusing and there aren't as many resources online to download and copy setups.
Another good video from Nils! Personally I think it will largely depend on what content LFM chooses for AMS2. My choices would be:
- IMSA (modern content with mostly balanced cars)
- Modern Formula 1 (competitive, no BOP needed)
- A season jumping through the centuries in formula 1 (GPL veterans like me would love it). Historic formula 1 is pretty fleshed out in AMS2 and easy enough to switch from car to car.
Let's hope they make it a success!
I would be interested only if there was a series with locked setups and good BOP. So you either pick a car and adapt to a setup or pick a car based on your driving style. Then you care about your driving skill and race strategy. I work full time, don't have time to create setups, and don't like making them. I could buy one but it will never be as good as custom made by a pro player. I want a league that gives me a chance to win. Open setups leagues are strongly biased toward people with a lot of free time. And there are enough leagues for them.
tbh I am really surprised that AC 1 has died a death on LFM. Other than the MX5 its so quiet. I thought the variety away from GT3.......GT3.....GT3 would really bring people in but we've proven we like the easy life and would rather drive the same car on 15 tracks ad infinitum than have some variety.
For me it is the slower speed cars I miss from ACC, the MX5, the Cupra, or the likes of the Vee and 1600 from iracing - if AMS2 content focuses there I think it will do well. If it tries to be another GT3 or GT4 series I fear failure.
True. I abandoned ACC when I went iRacing 1.5y ago. I had fun with LMP3 on LFM, but after a couple of months, there were maybe 2 splits. Sad. So I continued to punishing myself with iRacing.
I hope there will be fixed setups. And it would be an insane advantage, if you could click on the LFM site, and the game skips the intro, everything, and just throws you in a practice server until the race starts. And automatically set the fuel and tires.
I disagree, I'm having the best time of my life racing Formula 3 season on AC on LFM
100% agree with you. That is the mistake LFM did with AC. They add a new sim which has 6000 cars to choose from! and they give you the same bullsh@it cars that are already in ACC, all those GT...something ultra downforce, sequentiall boring stuff. People who seek alternative racing have no place to go, but LFM refuses to see this. And mark my words the same is going to happen with AMS, which also has some amazing alternative content, and has great potential as a fun sim, but we are not going to see any of this. LFM will try to force everybody to play only the same old mainstream lazy crap like GT,LMS etc.....and before we know it it will be over.
A great argument to bring rFActor2 back here.
I think one of the key factors in the success will be how active Reiza is. I think with rFactor 2 the company was building its race Central software for Le Mans Ultimate and was competing with lfm for drivers
LFM is a great service for ACC because its simple, its just GT3 and a limited amount of tracks. AC is failing because of the strange choices of cars and tracks with to many empty series. It is sad to say this but its to much choice for sim racing community. My advice is to start with ONE! series. an open set car class that is fun to race! then do about 8-10 different tracks changing each week. if the player numbers are good add another class.
4me! the experience u get with a new car and historic track in ams2 is unique!
other games need a new class or whole new game to offer that kind of variety!
hopefully reiza will implement the new eco system linked to these leagues so people will see how much love was put into the game!
curious to see how they will manage the BoP with different cars on the track
i can't wait, AMS2 needs more love
AMS2 is on sale on Steam until 11th July, do with that information what you like.
I want to see cars like the chevet, formula junior, and cars like the puma, Copa uno something along those lines.
Assetto corsa has very good numbers for the Mazda cup and 296 series, even better than ACC during the evenings here in the US
Attractive Series. I am SICK of GT3, MX5 Cup and all the exact same damn cars over and over. That's what killed AC LFM, IMO.
My issue with ams2 is its final boss…the menu/setup option. Setting up triples shouldn’t be a huge undertaking. I’ve tried 3 times almost an hour a piece and I still can’t get it right.
hmm i didn't have a problem in fact it only took about 15 mins
I've got mine setup correctly with bazel free kit no problem mate
setup work can be unnecessarily time consuming. Sometimes I think it's better if you were able to set only minimal setup choices on servers. For instance only being able to change front anti roll bar, rear wing, brake balance, brake pressure, so the driver makes the difference and not the millions of hour their team put into the setup.
@@petouser Exactly. I only have a couple hours 2-3 times a week I just wanna hop on and get to it and have a decent race. I know I'm not that skilled but adding setup to it just makes it even less competitive or fun.
Imho if Reiza wont get the physics done properly it will be hard for AMS2 to succeed as a competitive simracing game. I really liked AMS2 but after hundreds of hours in AC only, i tried AMS2 again and oh boy it felt like an arcade game compared to AC. It was really weird, I own a good DD wheel (Asetek Forte) but it felt like I was on a controller.
anything i've driven in the last streams felt fine and credible. not too lenient, etc. its different than other games, but at least the cars i drove not as arcady as the old f1 cars felt last patch
100%
When will it be available
I think it won't do that good bcs it la different from acc, I think that at the core lfm it's actually acc, I'd say I'm decent in acc ( 2 3 second average from pro times ), also I see this in the races, I perform above average.
So ams2 feels so wrong for me and I rly try to like it I don't have a DD wheel, probably like most of the players out there (maybe you know this info better) and it feels so hard to adapt also when I switch back to acc it makes me apraciete it even more, also we can see that even acc it's failing with the m2 and gets, witch are great but I think people don't have time or the paciance to learn them and they rather stick to the things they know and not "wasting" their few available hours having a bad race or a bad experience, but still it's a great thing for the ones that are already playing it, bringing them all together, also I think the whole process of buying things see what dlc contains what, possibility of wasting money and not liking it will be a turn off
its very surprising how few people are talking about this.
when i heard i was very excited.
lets go for vr
ams2 has about £100 of dlc right now. im not up for having to purchase lots as thats what put me off acc on lfm as well as iracing in general
Everyone is excited about the new IMSA pack for AMS2 because it's people that want to experience the golden age of sports cars but without spending the kind of money for iRacing or dealing with the janky unfinished LMU.
I think LFM can be successful for AMS2 but I also think there's a lot of pitfalls it needs to avoid. Focus on the content that people are excited for AMS2, that's the IMSA cars on IMSA tracks.
Of course there needs to be some other content as well. So many some of the marquee content like the Brazilian stock cars and the CART cars can work and one slow rookie car but if it includes servers beyond that then it will more likely make it a ghost town like the other games besides ACC.
AC is struggling because there are too many different series. We just need one or two. Also these need to be the free content. Not the dlc.
Agree, what's the point of paid mods series if we have so much good cars / tracks available in AC that are free to download
I'm putting my money on a good initial month or 2 for it to just die off. I hope I'm wrong tho.
Sympathetic take. I have bougth the game in the end of 2022. Graphics great but physics I found truly underwhelming. I also bought AC, ACC and rFactor2 at that time. I have only been buying the DLCs of these last-mentioned three sims. AC by 2022 already virtually went for free. This is still not quite the case with regard to ACC and rFactor2. For the price of one rF2 car you can buy the AC base game. When I bought a new computer in the end of 2023, I did not even re-install AMS2. I immediately re-installed AC, ACC and rFActor2. I have STILL not re-installed AMS2. It has not escaped me that there have been numerous updates/patches. There are only a few I am willing to invest in, and AMS2 is just not one of these. I mean, with AC EVO in the offing... I''ll manage to ride it out until the release of AC EVO thank you very much. Luckily i bought AMS2 at a discount at that time.
I hope it's successful but on the west coast of America there's less than 200 people in prime time for me on LFM across all titles and series. I love AMS2 but for multi-player in my timezone iRacing is where the racing is. LFM is pretty much a Euro only service atm in my opinion.
yes, actively seeking to grow a userbase in other time zones would need a business decision in that regard
Unfortunately, content creators often decide what is going to be successful or not, and as is almost always the case, they will try AMS2 on LFM for a couple of weeks and then go back to ACC or Iracing...
Let’s hope 1.6 brings a good platform to begin with. I love the game to just fire it up with friends in a lobby or single player lapping. I think it will be a tough transition to LFM but let’s hope it works out and brings some more people to the game with a consistent tyre model across all the cars.
I think they need to do a lot of fixed setups to begin with. The setups being open at the start may turn people away.
setups are extremely easy to acquire tho, just head to time trial, add the ghost of the car track combo WR and youre good to go, how they'll fare in a full race distance is a different matter tho
Ams2 should make its own ranked system. I think sticking to an external site is nonsense. The iracing system always gains players and audiences. It should make people compete within its own system.
First thing comes to mind, zero skill required on the brakes in acc. People want instant gratification, not prepared to learn how to brake a car without just smashing the pedal.
AMS2 has amazing cars and tracks, but I think still handles poorly and has weird impacts. Driving the Cadillac LMDh/GTP in LMU and AMS2 back-to-back is particularly enlightening. AMS2's DLC is also extremely confusing and expensive for newcomers, sadly. Also, rF2 player numbers primarily dropped on LFM because it implemented its own native ranking system, something that has carried across rather successfully now into LMU.
Im a AMS2 in VR fanboy, and left LMU almost unplayed in my library. But you are quite right, these same cars on f.i Spa dont feel the same. Much more is happening in physics and FFB in LMU, makes AMS2 version feel quite tame (except risk of busstop chicane spinouts). Waiting in more anticipation for VR now!
rFactor2 mods + it bringing it's own ranked system and AC mods are the real problem. I'm hoping AMS2 just becomes a jump in and go option on LFM, otherwise it will suffer the same demise. I honestly prefer rFactor 2 and AC over AMS2 for the driving experience, but if they keep it simple and approachable AMS2 could work well.
I don't see how this game is going to work or get active on LFM. It's on par or even less of a playersbase then Rf2, but ofcourse Rf2 as software was trash and alot of low quality mods. AC is the biggest sim-game on steam, playerbase wise peaking often 3-4x the amount playing ACC. Yet AC is still rather dead then active for competitive racing on LFM. Ofcourse i hope AMS2 1.6 release and LFM integration will make it a succes but i doubt.
AMS2 also has a wiki wich has a lot of info
a lot of that info sadly is generic and how things are irl and _should_ be in the sim. that doesn't necessarily mean they _are_ like that in the game, which is what people actually need.
@@SimracingPopometer what info? All of the info is taken from AMS2
@@gru0058 no it's not. e.g. the setup guide is generic, how things **should** work. what people need is how the game **actually** works. every sim has its problems and some parts are more important than others because of development choices or shortcomings in the simulation result. a collection of everything is nice, but too much for people who don't want to become an engineer - people do not have time. as highlighted in the video, info needs to be precise and flow fast, else it's doomed.
e.g.
in iracing you go max camber, min pressure, minimum ride height (front), you'll want to find ways to reach the edges of the tech inspection. heat sensitivity of the tires is your main concern, don't ever go over the limit of the tire.
in acc want to run softest springs, aggressive rake (or as far as the aero map still responds), maximum camber allowance, keep tires between 70-90C. pressures warm around 26.7, go low on the TC
boom, ready to go.
we need to narrow down the relevant factors and their respective reasonable window. make it accessible, it's the most important factor
@@SimracingPopometer if you have any ideas into how you can help with the wiki, why not contact the guy who has done it? I heard the setup info is the one from AMS2 so it might be correct. There’s also a page which summarises what all setup changes do. He also does informative videos which can also be a way he can help
They need to get ams2 physics in order, i have no interest in playing with car settings for primary reason of working around the games problems, i should be doing settings to optimize the car for the track.
the 1.6 update is targeting some of the issues (again). we shall see
This is interesting, I tried Racecraft online for the first time today for Automobilista 2. Only have rookie license (boring but ok) here I go.
I qualified in Pole but had a bad start on Formula Inters, so P2 P3 take T1 first, 1 of them spins the rear on the other, the other hits me and I have very heavy suspension damage.
(This is bad but I just tried to dive bomb the P1 guy who wrecked us 2, and after missing because I was still too far back from dmg suspension I quit)
Next race is in one hour? same stuff? ok cya I'm off to Assetto Corsa.
Rookie license with full simulation damage and people crashing in AMS2... what do they expect lol. I'm not even going to bother trying to "fight my way up" lol
Did you expected something different? Even iRacing is like that on rookies. How do you implement that? I understand you, as an experienced player, don't want to go trough those rookies scenarios, but you can't open all levels and classes to everybody because all races would be like that then. You as an experienced racer have the means to level up without much grinding to the upper licenses. I went to gold in a couple weeks without any problem, the key is to take some little effort from your part. If you don't want to take that effort, yeah it's not for you, but that's a you problem, not a service one.
Damage on in rookies is a good setting, rookies needs to learn the proper way since the very beginning if you want to have good races later on on the ladder, to form a racing etiquette, to have consistent drivers, and to form a well behaved community where you want to go and race on.
@@MrNangu Well I tried to be as clean as possible and qualified in front etc just to get crashed with a 1h wait.
What did I do? I went to LFM in AC, off season radicals, setup the car, qualified P1 or P2. Close racing but clean.
I lapped almost the whole field up until P5 or even P4. No contact whatsoever. People moving out of my way etc.
I've seen certain open servers on AC that have rammers all day long or servers that have kick and ban mod bots.
But many many times I've found AC servers with a huge skill gap between all drivers but still everyone trying their best to stay clean.
I might give racecraft online AMS2 a go again but I'm more tempted to just join a random room since i've had quite a few clean races on random lobbies.
I think the biggest mistake LFM could make is NOT have a GT3 series in AMS2 from the start. It remains THE most popular racing series online and provides a nice balance between speed, downforce and car control difficulty for non-aliens.
AMS2 is The great game but dont know why they can't go more popular like others
too much content, lack of reliable multiplayer
Huh?? How/why is this going to be on LFM? The multiplayer is completely broken on AMS2!
perhaps the target is to unbreak it ;)
@@SimracingPopometer Haha, could be :D
Acc is quite a boring game to me, i tried several times, but never got me excited.
A singke race on automobilista 2 and it gave me what GPL did.
These games might have more appeal if, they came over to consol?? Sorry, but they restrict thier own market and thus, end up drowning themselves.
RF2 shit on LFM by doing there own ranked racing.. So RF2 loss for me
The reason AC isn't doing well is because it's a shitty racing game. It's a great hot lap sim. AMS2 is a great racing game. The only reason ACC is popular is because of the real life gt3 race series attached to the game.
IMSA license will help legitimize the game especially in America.
Nils did a video bout your issue. Maybe its worth a look. Its about rating Sims.
Maybe I am biased, as I have almost 2.000 hours on AC (and the same on ACC). But if you race with the right people AC is actually a great racing game. I don't know if you are referring to contact physics when you talk about "shitty racing game" or something else. Yes I agree that AC has several flaws (that ACC inherited in several aspect to be honest), but I don't agree so much with your point. I had a ton of fun racing with AC.
@@____________________ok So I understood your point at first. And I agree with you 100 per cent. Also curbs are not good in AC to be honest. Each game has his flaws, even big flaws, and even if they are overall great games.
AC is doing quite well, maybe not as a competitive racing game in particular but the good thing is that AC offers so much more ... btw, AC has 3-4 times more average players than ACC and about 20 times more than AMS2.
@@andreaiachini7517 with the latest CSP there were physics improvements for the curbs ... not perfect but quite ok now.