@@blehm_7403 That looks correct - each "note" has a MIDI signal, and that signal changes the shape of the Shaper Box which is ducking the elements of the mix.
There is an issue with this method of side chain: there will be phase problems when you split the sound into high n low part, because shaperbox (volumeshaper) has no LinerPhase mode.I personally create two parallel tracks with izotope imager (that i use as a splitter - it has no phase issues) and volume shaper on each of them. Or there is more advanced way - just use soothe 2 in side chain mode, you can even transparently side chain vocals for more punchy kicks.
@@klemenspichler400 I asked him about it and he said he is pretty confident on zero crossings in shaperbox. Linear phase mode wont save 100% you from SOME OF the phase shifts cause latency compensation but it can help a bit. His mixes are really clean to my ears so i wont complain.
@@jon00200 Oh cool thanks for the reply! I wonder why he doesn't mind the zero crossings in shaperbox. After all he ranted pretty hard about OTT because it introduces phase-issues. I guess there's no clear cut answer to this, since there are a lot of producers using things like OTT an their stuff sounds absolutely fine too. I am just wondering where Fox draws the line for himself.
@@klemenspichler400 Volumeshaper, if split into 3 bands (Fox is only doing 2 bands in this video) will have the same amount of phase shifting as ott - ofcourse, because it’s also a 3 band split - all minimum phase LR4 crossovers are identical in terms of phase
Thank you Fox Stevenson for the epic tips! Cause I know you'll ask... The sidechain plugin is VolumeShaper 6 (used within ShaperBox2). Get the plugin here* - bit.ly/SidechainPlugFox 👀WATCH NEXT: Fox Stevenson: Why I NEVER use OTT - ruclips.net/video/64ka_BNfx1o/видео.html * = may be affiliate links (meaning you can support me at no cost to you)
With sub phase for this genre Fox's goal is maximum sub (subs are slower low freq waves) so I'm pretty sure he's trying to achieve maximum amplitude of the sine (ish) wave for maximum duration. A dip in the sine wave would mean less oscillations of the low end, aka a less consistent, less powerful sub. Rewatch the video looking for this and you should be good ;)
Yeah agreed, adaptive sidechaining is where it's at. I still have good a use case for the more traditional compression based sidechaining (like for send effects), but as far as the "main" sidechain goes, precise volume and layer control is just way too good to sleep on.
I don't know the difference in status from Scope. I only know that it's good to do a multi-band side chain... but Really Really Thanks Sol Sate! I hope you make a lot of money and live a long, healthy life. I mean it.
I am seeing this right? Fox is sending both the Kick and the Ducked Bass a Buss called Clip N Scope. Why would we want to Clip before Scoping? (I use Ableton) Thanks!
Really sorry for basic question but what advantage does this have over normal side chain compression of kick and bass in place of using volume shaper ?
Hey Luke! I'd say you get more precise control and the option for 100% ducking of kick with this method. Not required but can help in certain scenarios, like loud mixdowns.
@@SolStateMusic thank you, this is a feature within volume shaper ? And is he changing the trigger note to the same sub note that is being sidechained?
@@crismeisters The midi notes don't need to match the sub or anything. They just trigger different shapes in shaperbox. For instance you could make one ducking shape for the kick, one for the snare, and trigger them with c and c# respectively. The idea demonstrated at the end was to simply make the snare ducking shorter to match the length of the snare body, as it is shorter than the kick.
i didn't get it, like is he hust getting the volume down from the sub bass to make space for the kick and on the snare what is he doing? If someone can help me figure it out, cuz i am strugglieng with this more "engeneering" things
Great stuff. Might just be me, but I’m not clear on whether the sidechain effect from shaperbox is being applied to single channels, busses, or the master? Would also like to know what the second plug-in in use is. Thanks!
The sidechain is applied to different things at different times, but the message is the same. Other plug is - schulz.audio/products/oszillos-mega-scope/
Thanks for this video!😀👍 I find it funny that Fox is using an oscilloscope for music production but using his vocal mic for talking in such a horrible way. Not everything is important it seems 😂
You could duplicate the same track and eq out highs and lows, or send different sidechain triggers to two compressors, but its a lot easier with the plugin
Sounds like it's a pretty well layered bass. Some filtered midrange (perhaps band-pass), a tonal/noisy layer and a solid sub layer. I also hear what sounds like a pedal-tone and upper melodic layer (two parts). Could definitely see it being made easily with a couple Serum patches. Get a little waveshaping distortion, some compression and output filtering and you'll be in the ball-park for a bass sound like that.
Yo I didn’t understand what he did at the very end. He changed the midi note of something but I didn’t get what it was exactly. And suddenly it changed the amount of bass. Someone can explain it to me please? 🥲
@@kidnunmusic The midi notes trigger different volume envelopes in shaperbox. He switched the notes to trigger a shorter shape for the snare, which let the low end back in earlier.
The way I understand it is that even if you can't really hear the subtle differences in the solo'd clips he's playing, in the overall mix the difference is more noticeable. Also on speakers that can pick up that low end more, say good studio speakers or PA systems.
I believe he was trying to get max amplitude (of low freq sine ish wave) for maximum duration. Same idea applies at end of video too, might be easier to see there.
for me all this is just a great showcase to sell plugins, from an audio point of view it is pure madness! In the years 89/90/2000 (it was pre-daw) all this was not there, yet all the songs of the EDM genre (from pop to the most extreme techno) sounded fat, big and crystalline, without all the bullshit! Wake up people, and don't fall for these clowns who only sell you hot air!
![COLOMBIA vs. CHILE [4-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 10](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TDjN4W3yy1k/mqdefault.jpg)
The routing of the MIDI triggers is dope by itself
Yes! Very clever
What is he exactly doing with the d# thing? How is it affecting the volume shaper?
@@Phil489 d# is a frequency. 77.78hz. & 440 cm some EQ let you focus in on it that way.
@@b3at2 pretty sure d# is just a midi input that was assigned to trigger the volume shaping for the snare low end??
@@blehm_7403 That looks correct - each "note" has a MIDI signal, and that signal changes the shape of the Shaper Box which is ducking the elements of the mix.
This channel is a gold mine 😳
Thanks man! You're up to good stuff too!
I agree with both of you!
DUDE! That double pump on the highs is what ive been searching for forever! Love you Sol State and Fox Stevenson
Amazing! Glad it helped, much love!
@Jonathan Stark you must be fun at parties. Hi five! Or would you rather have a hand shake...?
Damn. I kinda just did that sometimes. Now I can finally commit knowing it’s actually a thing.
@@Sool101 hey man... no... there’s Covid...
HAHAHHA
There is an issue with this method of side chain: there will be phase problems when you split the sound into high n low part, because shaperbox (volumeshaper) has no LinerPhase mode.I personally create two parallel tracks with izotope imager (that i use as a splitter - it has no phase issues) and volume shaper on each of them. Or there is more advanced way - just use soothe 2 in side chain mode, you can even transparently side chain vocals for more punchy kicks.
Good point! I would like to hear Fox's take on this, since he's usually extremely careful about phase-issues.
@@klemenspichler400 I asked him about it and he said he is pretty confident on zero crossings in shaperbox. Linear phase mode wont save 100% you from SOME OF the phase shifts cause latency compensation but it can help a bit. His mixes are really clean to my ears so i wont complain.
@@jon00200 Oh cool thanks for the reply! I wonder why he doesn't mind the zero crossings in shaperbox. After all he ranted pretty hard about OTT because it introduces phase-issues. I guess there's no clear cut answer to this, since there are a lot of producers using things like OTT an their stuff sounds absolutely fine too. I am just wondering where Fox draws the line for himself.
@@klemenspichler400 Volumeshaper, if split into 3 bands (Fox is only doing 2 bands in this video) will have the same amount of phase shifting as ott - ofcourse, because it’s also a 3 band split - all minimum phase LR4 crossovers are identical in terms of phase
Yeah thought it was really funny to see him doing multiband ducking after talking about ott
Thank you Fox Stevenson for the epic tips! Cause I know you'll ask...
The sidechain plugin is VolumeShaper 6 (used within ShaperBox2).
Get the plugin here* - bit.ly/SidechainPlugFox
👀WATCH NEXT: Fox Stevenson: Why I NEVER use OTT - ruclips.net/video/64ka_BNfx1o/видео.html
* = may be affiliate links (meaning you can support me at no cost to you)
I've never seen someone making space for the hi hat in their sidechain. I might try it
do it all the time works well with final mixes though do it based on eq rather than amplitude
it's really unnecessary unless you're going for the "over produced" pop sound, and even then...
@@SignificantOther11 mixing is what is lack with most production so the less people do the better for me
This one hi hat on the 3 is very important for the dnb groove so it makes sense making room for it
Very good stuff. Thanks for the clean editing!
Thanks Zach!
i need to say it again, your videos are gold, thank you
Thank you! Appreciate it
AMEN!!
The plug-in that he’s using to allow for multiband sidechaining curve drawing is Cable Guys - Shaper Box ( or volume shaper)
Love this! Please make more videos from Fox's livestream he's so good at explaining!
I'll try! I really like his mixdowns, so I'm trying to find some good highlights to summarize!
Love this channel, respect from South Africa 🇿🇦 🙏
Thanks Kyle! Much love
SA represent 👌
Love this channel, no bullshit only real stuff
Such an inspiring clip! Thanks for this!
Awesome, you're very welcome!
Great video! Can someone explain how he’s able to visibly see the phase? Or is there a video for that thank you
With sub phase for this genre Fox's goal is maximum sub (subs are slower low freq waves) so I'm pretty sure he's trying to achieve maximum amplitude of the sine (ish) wave for maximum duration. A dip in the sine wave would mean less oscillations of the low end, aka a less consistent, less powerful sub. Rewatch the video looking for this and you should be good ;)
Such a helpful tip, thank you Fox
Yeah agreed, adaptive sidechaining is where it's at. I still have good a use case for the more traditional compression based sidechaining (like for send effects), but as far as the "main" sidechain goes, precise volume and layer control is just way too good to sleep on.
I don't know the difference in status from Scope. I only know that it's good to do a multi-band side chain... but Really Really Thanks Sol Sate! I hope you make a lot of money and live a long, healthy life. I mean it.
more Tips of Fox Stevenson pls!!!
This is so good! Looking forward to new releases ! ;)
Haha thanks bud!
Thank you Sol State!!!
You're welcome!
Class 😍😍🧘
How can i avoid the click and pop .. I do same setting with fox stevenson but I get click and pops.. this is very stressful!
Wait can someone explain the routing that is done for that? It is not shown at all here how to route the tracks to achieve this.
Very good vid!
I am seeing this right? Fox is sending both the Kick and the Ducked Bass a Buss called Clip N Scope. Why would we want to Clip before Scoping? (I use Ableton) Thanks!
My guess is he's trying to analyze the master out, as close as it will appear after final master (some clipping is typical in mastering process).
Really sorry for basic question but what advantage does this have over normal side chain compression of kick and bass in place of using volume shaper ?
Hey Luke! I'd say you get more precise control and the option for 100% ducking of kick with this method. Not required but can help in certain scenarios, like loud mixdowns.
@@SolStateMusic gotcha thanks. Makes sense and I’m seeing a whole bunch of producers using this method now too
love your stuff !
But what about the clicking that occurs when using trigger sidechain?
Still confused about the adaptive sidechain, what is being affected when he switches the notes that alters the sidechain and sub amplitude? Thank you
Different note = different sidechain length. That helps achieve max sub amplitude aka MORE BASS
@@SolStateMusic thank you, this is a feature within volume shaper ? And is he changing the trigger note to the same sub note that is being sidechained?
@@crismeisters The midi notes don't need to match the sub or anything. They just trigger different shapes in shaperbox. For instance you could make one ducking shape for the kick, one for the snare, and trigger them with c and c# respectively.
The idea demonstrated at the end was to simply make the snare ducking shorter to match the length of the snare body, as it is shorter than the kick.
@@Nathan_Woodruff thank you that makes a lot more sense now
i didn't get it, like is he hust getting the volume down from the sub bass to make space for the kick and on the snare what is he doing? If someone can help me figure it out, cuz i am strugglieng with this more "engeneering" things
Great stuff. Might just be me, but I’m not clear on whether the sidechain effect from shaperbox is being applied to single channels, busses, or the master?
Would also like to know what the second plug-in in use is. Thanks!
The sidechain is applied to different things at different times, but the message is the same.
Other plug is - schulz.audio/products/oszillos-mega-scope/
@@SolStateMusic thanks for getting back to me. Keep up the great work, I love your channel!
What scope is that you are using?
Oszillos Mega Scope
what is this clip n scope plugin? cant find it
Can somebody explain the last tip about adaptive sidechain? I don't understand what he's doing
Basically, different sidechain length for kick and snare
Thanks for this video!😀👍
I find it funny that Fox is using an oscilloscope for music production but using his vocal mic for talking in such a horrible way. Not everything is important it seems 😂
dopeee videossss
Thanks again Manuel!
I love your channel 😍
Thanks! Tell your friends!
@@SolStateMusic my friends are not really into music creation things 😜 they love sports and other activities.
Is there a way to do this with stock logic plugins. The Logic compressor doesn't give you as much control
You could duplicate the same track and eq out highs and lows, or send different sidechain triggers to two compressors, but its a lot easier with the plugin
@@SolStateMusic wow thanks!
I usually do it by ear with a normal compressor. Duplicate it for every band you want to target and play around with the EQ and attack/release
Awesome tips, I haven't been looking into phase issues in sidechaining before. Also what is that bass he uses? How can I make it?
@@ctcdvch5539 i'm wrong? what.
Sounds like it's a pretty well layered bass. Some filtered midrange (perhaps band-pass), a tonal/noisy layer and a solid sub layer. I also hear what sounds like a pedal-tone and upper melodic layer (two parts). Could definitely see it being made easily with a couple Serum patches. Get a little waveshaping distortion, some compression and output filtering and you'll be in the ball-park for a bass sound like that.
I can make you this kind of bass, even couple of better ones.
But you will need to pay for it ofc.
@@CLdwyer Oh, that's cool! It's kinda like a distorted reese with white noise.
Not sure what bass he is using, but you could probably ask him when he streams on Twitch. www.twitch.tv/foxstevensontv
I gotsta sidechain!
How did he set up that midi trigger when sjidechaining the bass to the snares?
its a setting in top right of plug, and you have to use midi notes to trigger SC. Bit complicated, prob best to search for tut.
I almost thought I was listening to Daniel James for a second...
ME TOO!
I need that snare in my life. Does anyone know the name of the sample?
Maybe ask Fox on Twitch?
Whats the name of the song he's using for the example?
It's a Fox song, don't think it's released
Yo I didn’t understand what he did at the very end. He changed the midi note of something but I didn’t get what it was exactly. And suddenly it changed the amount of bass. Someone can explain it to me please? 🥲
You can recreate this a few way, but basically different midi notes trigger different sidechain lengths
@@SolStateMusic oh you mean he was sidechaining from a sound (like a short clic attack?) and changed these notes? Makes sense
@@kidnunmusic The midi notes trigger different volume envelopes in shaperbox. He switched the notes to trigger a shorter shape for the snare, which let the low end back in earlier.
@@Nathan_Woodruff thanks man 🦾
@@Nathan_Woodruff why do they trigger different volume envelopes?
Dude makes music with his eyes
Ok now this part confused me "it doesn't sound any different but we get more lo end" why do we care about the low end if we can't hear it?
The way I understand it is that even if you can't really hear the subtle differences in the solo'd clips he's playing, in the overall mix the difference is more noticeable. Also on speakers that can pick up that low end more, say good studio speakers or PA systems.
While you can't hear the sub harmonics on small speakers, you'll def FEEL more sub in the club. .
What plugin is the oscilloscope?
Oszillos Megascope
Whats the name of the song?
Not sure this ever got released
How did he see that it was phasing around 1:00?
I believe he was trying to get max amplitude (of low freq sine ish wave) for maximum duration. Same idea applies at end of video too, might be easier to see there.
1:00
Can somone explain to me why he yelled so much at the phase? What's the problem there?
Basically phase cancellation leading to less loudness. May need to do another video about this...
Song name?
it's an ID by Fox Stevenson
@@SolStateMusic Alright, I'll try and hunt it down. Thanks for responding.
🥀🥀🥀🥀
Have you tried early sidechaining?
Yes, can work great if you want to bring out a transient (not sure if you were asking me or Fox).
omg
I know this thing already.
It's all about sidechaining your lows and highs seperately
The adaptive sidechain thing is big too!
@@SolStateMusic hmm
for me all this is just a great showcase to sell plugins, from an audio point of view it is pure madness! In the years 89/90/2000 (it was pre-daw) all this was not there, yet all the songs of the EDM genre (from pop to the most extreme techno) sounded fat, big and crystalline, without all the bullshit! Wake up people, and don't fall for these clowns who only sell you hot air!
This was still done by all the professionals, they just used hardware compressors.
I appreciate innovation
Thank you for subtitles
Great content here!!
Appreciate it! Thanks
Whats the name of the track?
Actually is it out already?
I'm not sure Fox ever released this. He has TONS of unreleased ideas.