Note: If you're wondering what you get from having a Best-in-Slot Helbore II, you get probably the most efficient anti-Dreg and Scab shooter weapon, being capable of 1-shoting them with bodyshots at a rate faster than the Kantrael MG IV with pinpoint accuracy!
Okay, now you've got my attention. Most builds assume you hit heads all the time, and I know my potato aim is not good enough for that. But a setup specifically to clear Shooters quickly with minimal effort sounds rad!
An little tip for quick drawing this weapon: if you reload before you put it away, but switch weapons just before the animation finishes, when you pull it out again the last part of the load animation will replace the draw animation. If you do this right, the draw animation will be completely replaced with the much shorter last bit of the reload animation.
you absolutely went above and beyond in evaluating the hellbore lasguns and all of their quirks. This type of information is the stuff that ABSOLUTELY needs to be consolidated onto a comprehensive wiki, so that youtube algorithms don't wash this video away in the future, being drowned out by more recent videos that vaguely match people's search terms
That doesnt happen as long as the title properly des ribes the topic which it does. This will always come up in searches just based on the title and its popularity/engagement
What annoys me about this gun and I can't un-see it, is the mount rail. This gun clearly was designed to have scopes attached to it. Then I would probably use this gun. And even have a range finder attachment so you can use this weapon to its fullest potential.
I got an 80 damage, 80 stopping power, 80 charge speed Helbore Mk I with +25% maniac and +25 unyielding a few weeks ago and I've been loving it. Glad to see testing confirmed this was the optimal build. Not sure if No Respite makes any meaningful difference on certain targets, but at least Onslaught is the important blessing to have.
That's basically BiS already for the Helbore I! I have almost the same as yours and it a workhorse for my vet! Time to try grinding for the equivalent Helbore II next I suppose!
Well i got Hellbore II with 80 stopping power 80 charge speed 70 +flak + unarmored. Its a confortable to use gun, need to rarely reload (can sustain valley fire ez with reload) but its notisable weaker vs most enemies. usually just use it to clear gunners.
Good video. Surprised to see no mention of the fact that you're immune to suppression while charging shots, and that Helbore's are still pinpoint accurate when jumping while charging without any other movement input (it's QoL to be able to shoot over team mates in your line of fire). If you wanted to make MKIII breakpoint calculations even more complex you could have looked at partially-charged shots to kill Scab/Dreg trash units faster.
Good points! I actually missed that and definitely a good point of the Helbore! I actually tried to do the math for partial charges but the problem was I couldn't isolate if partial charges had RDF or not, and trying to work with partial charges along with Onslaught made it hard to control over time. I did however try and alternative build for the Mk III - build it for Scab and Dreg killing with tapfiring. Unfortunately, the drawbacks of the build outweighed the merits it provided...
Nice video man, covers a lot of what's important for the helbores. Btw, it's not a big thing, but for those who are too used to the Kantraels, it's nice to know that the helbores are actually very useful when hipfiring. Especially the mk3. Very useful to know about when you gotta dodge past a bulwark shield to get the first hit in (then finish him with the followup). 2 tapping ogryns is such a beautiful ability on D5 games.
One of my favourite build on Vet use the 3 Helbore, a dedicated sniper build using Camo expert to shoot mostly in peace. Teammates have more aggro but in exchange they have more dps and a bit of toughness with Covering fire when i shoot. I stay in the backline, most likely having the high ground if i can, but not too far of my squad because Camo almost don't work if you are alone. Most of the time I stay with Counterfire to hunt down gunners specials & elites except when i use the Mk III i put "The bigger they are ..." and go for the big game hunting. It's sad there is no redhot or a better sight otherwise they would be the perfect sniper in the game.
**shock trooper has entered the chat** so hah hah, im defiantly going to go for a hellbore 3 build in the future, since. if i did my math's correctly, you can get up to 80% crit chance (or more with buffs from other players) so your ammo consumption would be absolutely minimal the game also calculated crits before the shot leaves the gun. meaning. even if you miss a shot. if that shot was going to be a crit. you still don't loose any ammo, even if your not hitting anything based on your video the hellebore 3 seems like the ideal choice for this setup. I'm looking forward to trying it out
I haven't given the 1 an honest try, but after watching this I will. My go to has generally been the 2. The superior fire rate paired with counter fire makes it great for popping enemy shooters quickly. I also have a super high stat'd 3 I take out with the ogryn slaying perk just to watch crazy numbers pop up. One shotting reapers is satisfying, and watching the zealot turn and look to you in confusion with his thunder hammer charged after you killed a boss before he could get into melee is the icing on the cake. Definitely not the best out of the three for a multitude of reasons, but very fun to use.
Appreciate the commitment of going for the Lucius and Shovel combo for the gameplay. I've seen this weapon do work in missions but you've got to be committed to getting a good one and using it well.
So a conter point to sustain fire, and why i feel "brake points" loose the forest thrue thetrees. The point is DPS on single target. You are corect in the statment that most perks do not do anything for any of the wepons, and this is under the presumption that I only use the mk3. "Surigical" as a perk ask you to slow down your fire rate, defeqting onalaugth. Well sustain fires garentees anything you did not kill on the first shot will be killd on the next one. Well onslaught is a must, i feel there is a tendency for newer vets to get scope eye, sitting and waiting for shots for too long and surgical defintly helps slow down your play, in a fast game.
My counter to your arguement is: would have the enemy that needed the second shot die from it without Sustained Fire anyway? Most of my breakpoint checks show that if something needed a second shot, the raw damage from the charged shot alone would finish it off without needing the extra 15%
@@rykenxiv so you may be correct, ill be honest I also try and aim for the head so I picked it on the idea of "sloppy shot" clean up, incase i had missed the head. I didnt think about it being overkill. I do think in terms of DPS insted of brake points so I kinda missed the hard numbers. Ill keep sustain fire, becuse in my Eyes, surgical is just asking me to slow down my shooting. but I also agree that, kidna like plazma gun, they need to Add a second perk that Actually dose something. becsue in both we are trying to finde the "least useless" second perk. grate vid btw, thank you for making it!
By far the best weapon to level a character. Special attack through missions, combined with a special from the Devils Claw and parry in tricky situations! 😊
Is anyone else sad we didn't get a can opener or punishing fire esc blessing option on the hellbore? Maybe a x% rending buff on weaksopt kill using gun special. Or make it a charge speed buff, that could also be fun. I say this because A- funny bayonet charge B- it would make the inclusion of a proper bayonet feel more intentional and encourage it's use. C- the damage and speed (on mk I and II) are really good. All mks one shot most smaller enemies on weak spot hit, and body shot hit in some cases like dogs, they even have reach and cleave on their side along high stab speed for some, so why not embrace that part of the gun. I will admit mk III..... it's slow and it doesn't really seem to get any important benefit while having a attack angle that tends to be shockingly prone to just chipping shoulders which tends to be armored.... It needs some love considering it's lighter cousins..... Maybe better cleave target/damage, base body shot damage, and a flatter swing would help, make it into a anti hord option rather than the special poker of the others.
Big Thank you for your Guide. I have invest many Plassteel to Build a god MKII. But i have one 79% Damge 80% Stoping Power 69% Chargerate and 25% to Flak and Unarmored targets. But sometime i have Low roll DMG then make my weapon only 200 dmg.
Would love a breakdown of any of the iconic Zealot weapons. It's hard to know which ones are good for which builds/missions. Stats and blessings change all the time with patches but archetypes will remain throughout every update. Im trying to climb out of Malice difficulty and I want to have a well rounded arsenal for any mission not just the one bread&butter with high stats.
I would love to know if you could do a video on the good old revolver next! Really huge fan of the weapon, but can never seem to make it work. I know it's probably suited for damnation, but I still enjoy it quite a bit. Currently running Crucian Roulette and Sustained Fire with Maniac and Flak damage
This just baffles me. For what purpose would they make such intricate mechanics for guns, only to not tell us?? And why do only certain variants have these quirks? Is this the so called overdesign ive never actually seen before?
Original design was one weapon with addons to modify the guns. So one helbore lasgun and addons to get I/II/III. Somehow, fatahark management decided to just split the weapon into three from the original designs. Rumor has it was to prop up artificial player retention to grind for all weapons but this is largely supported by Fatshark’s effort to prioritize cash shop implementation over actual gameplay (actual changes from alpha to game launch was really just cash shop).
Fatshark has always had a fairly intricate design for their weapons. Even in Vermintide 2, you do need to learn weapons and go thru breakpoints to play on Cataclysm effectively. I believe they don’t explain things thoroughly so that the player is left to figure it out, and those who want to play on the highest difficulties must learn them. It creates a skill barrier to entry, making harder difficulties rewarding. That’s just my opinion anyways.
@@jacobvriesema6633 as believable as that is, i seriously believe FS doesnt really play their own game as the highest level that extensively. If they did, we wouldnt see so many game breaking bugs every single patch; neither would we see the lack of meaningful changes to the existing weapon pool for almost half the time the games been out. I do also think a larger part is their incompetent leadership and planning though.
@@sturmmagnunstein1008 it’s certainly possible they have a small QA department. Bugs were common in V2 as well, and not uncommon for FS to create a new one with a patch.
@@jacobvriesema6633 yeah. but a bug introduced with some maps and a few hats that literally crashed on launch for certain hardwares (at least 30% of the playerbase) is pretty unforgivable.
Love the work Ryken ill have to give the mk1 another try now. Personally after using all of them, the mk2 has been my favorite. A big point about it, is it has the best ammo efficiency of the 3 weapons. With tap fires and barely charged shots consuming very little ammo for very high amounts of damage and it can still deal with crushers which the mk1 struggles with a bit.
Indeed! Made a pinned comment to highlight the strength of the Mk II when you can get it rolling! (Had to do it a service since I meme'd on it in the video :P)
I managed to get my hands on a near perfect Mk1 a while ago. 379 base stats, Surgical 4, Onslaught 4, Flak +25%, and unfortunately a Crit perk. With Sniper with can two shot Reapers and one shot ragers on top of just utterly annihilating monsters. It's my go-to gun for quickplay and I constantly just run laps around the team in terms of kills and damage done....also I constantly scare my friends into thinking a Sniper is around.
Mk 3 is wonky as a hybrid. You want to learn how to half charge it to really pull the most out of it. Mk 2 is the variant you want to try if you are new to helbores. It feels like works like a Kantrael.
@@convergence1point all the times I've used the mk3, I've never tested firing a half-charged shot. Just always assumed it acted like an uncharged shot. Does it actually increase damage and reduce ammo used?
Yes, the mk3 has a terrible base damage compared to the other helbores. So you can slightly charge the shot to increase the damage so you can properly headshot a shooter with one shot. Otherwise, you are likely to need two shots, which will rekt your efficiency. (Sorry about the spam, RUclips froze and failed to respond to input, had to delete all these extra inputs)
DO NOT underestimate that bayonet! A Hellebore II with the stagger effect and paired with stealth perks is GAME OVER for entire groups of enemies when you get close enough to lock them into melee.
I've recently came into possession of a Hellbore mk 2 with god roll damage stats (reaching the mythical 360 unarmored damage and enough stopping power to reach 360 damage with flak). I also have onslaught 4 earned through blessings and I managed to roll No respite 3, by the emperor I think the Hellbore 2 is one, if not, the best lasgun when rolled well. Like I don't even want to use the Kantrael 12 anymore, it and the other hellbores are now too slow for my taste.
I really like using the Helbore but they really need to think about putting in an optic option. If the gun is basically meant to be a charge-up sniper rifle, why the hell are the ironsights so atrocious?
I always wondered why I saw so many people saying the Helbore II was the best Helbore. They usually quoted its faster fire rate as being superior, but whenever I tried it it just never matched up.
Its actually very strong - probably the strongest shooter killer in the game if Min-Maxed as shown since you can 1 shot bodyshot shooters on Damnation with the a firerate faster than that of the Kantrael MG IV from any range!
@@rykenxiv Thanks for the breakdown on one of my favorite class of weapons! I never tried building an optimal rifle when just comparing guns to see which ones I'd like to use. And since baseline MK I blew baseline MK II out of the water I completely wrote it off. After this I'm definitely going to try investing in a good MK II!
Can i pls ask for a rumbler video? Its a weapon that i want to like so much but cant seem to get the build right, since the explosions rarely kill more then one enemy. Or maybe its the gun and not me?
Can you elaborate a bit more as to why you don't seem to prioritize "No Respite" [Up to +12.5-20% Damage on Hit (Staggered Enemy), scaling with Stagger.] as a weapon blessing? On a t4 it can give an extra 20% damage which seems amazing. With this blessing, any target that requires more than one shot (assuming the first shot staggers the target) would potentially turn it into a 2-3 shot kill? Does the blessing not affect any break points at all?
Sure! With the appropriate breakpoints, the Helbores should be able to 1-shot most if not all regular enemies. That leaves Elites and Specials for No Respite to work on. Of the Elites, you aren't going to be doing anything to Crushers, Maulers, and Reapers since the Helbores don't have the stagger power to activate No Respite. Ragers that are outside of your reverse damage falloff range could benefit from it if your opening shot can stagger them, but looking at the breakpoint table, even with +20% on the following shots, your breakpoints don't change - except for the Helbore I where it can help you 2-shot bodyshot Dreg Ragers (assuming they aren't already running since they have very strong stagger resistance when doing so). No Respite doesn't help with Specials and Gunners as well. The only other place I see it being helpful is helping you reach the 2-shot bodyshot breakpoint against Shotgunners on the Helbore II (but then I recommend No Respite on the Helbore II anyway). So overall, No Respite is pretty niche in where it can make a difference. The defining question you need to answer with No Respite on anyway weapon is: Would what you're shooting at die from the second shot anyway even without No Respite? No Respite is conditionally useful if it can reduce your breakpoints from 3 to 2, otherwise there's very little practical reasons to take it! Hope this helps!
@@rykenxiv Thanks for the insight, I've often wondered how practical No Respite might be combined with "Falter" [+30-60% Target Stagger on Weak Spot Hit.] Not just on the Helbores but on other Lasguns as well. There are just too many better blessing alternatives however to legitimise it. Would it tip the balance against Ogryn's I wonder? So you could turn a Helbore into more of an Ogryn killer specifically, might be worth dropping Onslaught for just for that niche capability.
@@_Saracen_ I have tested the Falter + No Respite combo before, specifically on the Vrak III Headhunter. The idea was if Falter could give the weapon enough stagger on the first shot of its burst to active No Respite on the remaining two shots. Unfortunately, weapons with already low stagger power don't benefit much from Falter since Falter scales better with weapon with high stagger, but then if your weapon has high enough stagger, you don't really need Falter... Examples like this are something I want to cover in an upcoming video about the state of blessings and weapons in the game!
Do you have any good data on the bayonet on these weapons? I find the bayonet on the MK II and I to be very satisfying and useful as it is a direct stab that is very quick and easy to pull off weak spot dmg with. It's fast and versatile and super useful when something gets too close to you, or to even kill dogs, mutants and pretty much anything except Carapace armored enemies, the dps it can generate is very high I find and it can also stagger enemies like Dnoughts even tho it doesn't do that much damage against them. The MK III bayonet animation however is MUCH worse as it's a vertical slash that is much slower and harder to make weak pot hits with. @rykenxiv
+Crit damage isn't the worst perk you can get, it's just the +damage perks against armour classes is always active and allows for more consistent performance and fine tuning of your weapons breakpoints!
Best one is Mk1… best damage best rof paired with onslaught and Salvo “each shot gains 15 percent per 2nd and 3rd shot”. Paired with sniper makes it the best sniper weapon and out damages the Bolter in many categories minus bosses
The Helbores III's main weakness is combat sustainability. With only 12 in the mag at best, you have very little room for error. The plasma gun is more forgiving in this area. If given a choice to bring one of them into a Damnation mission, I'd take the Plasma gun over the Mk III - simply because there more space to work with it and you can deal with Bulwarks - something the Mk III can't on its own! Like the Kantrael XII, the Helbore III can be very, very good it what it does - players who know their assignment with the weapon make it so that the rest of the team basically never sees any Ragers or "softer" specials around. But the Helbore III is only as good as your team will allow it to be! These are my experiences with it anyway!
I mained the Helbores on my Vet in my early hours of Darktide! Used the Helbore II (this was before I delve into min maxing it) because I really enjoyed the flow and rhythm of combat once you got rolling with the charged shots!
i dont get why u would meme on hellbore 2 its the best by far imo like sure the 3 might only needs 2 shots on reaper head however i shoot my 4 needed to kill faster and waste less ammo than the 3 i mean it helps that mine is 80dmg 80 stopping power and like 79 on charge rate but so far the best to handle best ammo efficent gun i used like kantrael is way better on maniacs and regular gunnrs for sure however i can kill heavily armored targets np oh and tier 4 unarmored and flak dmg so its pretty much a god roll
While I do meme on it, it doesn't mean its a bad weapon! Built properly, it easily takes the title of best anti-shooter weapon in the game - more so than the Kantrael XII even! It's just until you reach a certain threshold, its always going to be compared against the Mk I which works very well with natural stats already.
Also, the actual conclusion I drew from this video is that they aren't worth the left mice buttons I have to sacrifice to use one. And those death korps cosplayers engender a special kind of hatred in me for having the same yellow colour as dreg uniforms. Not a ptsd trigger, but rather a case of either wasted ammo from my shooting them or dying from getting shot by some dreg I thought was them. Or worse: being conscious of the extra mental load I have to expend to prevent the aforementioned phenomena.
@@johndane9754 I'm probably a bad fan. =( It only just occurred to me, after nearly 16 years of being in the 40k fandom that there's a distinction between the two. /hangsheadinshame Regardless. Wearing similar colours as the enemy is super uncool.
I tried hellbore and came to conclusion that it might hit hard, but Kantrael XII is more consistent so to speak. Long animations paired with not great ironsights and and special attack that is basicly a pointy stick/bat that amost usless on damnation makes it subjectivly unweildy. Flashlight might not be able to poke things, but at least i can SEE where i'm going (most of the time). Got used to kantrael so much and managed to make a near great roll in modifires aswell perks and blessings that it shreds nearly anything in a few well placed shots in the noggin. For carapace i just throw grenade and either peppering bullwark in the meat or smacking crusher with power sword when team mates are busy at dealing with other things. Right now the thing i want FATSHARK to do is to make some investment for diamantine like. Unlocking perks/blessings. Came back 3 weeks ago and already got over 10k of it. And might allow to roll weapon modifires distribution. At least you'll have more incentitive to get 380 weapon and after looking on it stats saying instead of "YUCK, to the trash bin you go" you say after looking on the pile of diamantine in the corner. "Mm i can fix it!" And then switching Hadron into overdrive rolling mode to get what you want.
Tbh, I kinda figure that the Plasma Gun does what the Helbore wants to do, but it does it better. On top of doing what the Bolter wants to do, but with faster weapon swap, larger clip, and better accuracy.
You have to get use to the weapon, as it's true it feels like it's working against you in the beggining. Don't be affraid to activate volleyfire to get the rifle out faster when you really need it and keep your distance from the fights. The cleave sound like it makes it good against horde, but i found that it really is usefull to pick out elites and specials in hordes. Paired with the sniper feat and counterfire, there is little in the game that doesn't die in more than 2 headshots. Even crusher aren't safe from you, and you still have the capacity to slaughter walls of shooters with ease.
@@greyfalconow9467 Plasma gun has really bad ammo reserves though. Amazing clip capacity, but bad total ammo. So if there's 2 vets using plasma gun, then the team's gonna have ammo issues unless they are lucky with ammo crates.
Note: If you're wondering what you get from having a Best-in-Slot Helbore II, you get probably the most efficient anti-Dreg and Scab shooter weapon, being capable of 1-shoting them with bodyshots at a rate faster than the Kantrael MG IV with pinpoint accuracy!
Okay, now you've got my attention. Most builds assume you hit heads all the time, and I know my potato aim is not good enough for that. But a setup specifically to clear Shooters quickly with minimal effort sounds rad!
@@Seranov TBH, I've found the Vrak's VII to be a very efficient way to clear out small gunners, in a hurry.
An little tip for quick drawing this weapon: if you reload before you put it away, but switch weapons just before the animation finishes, when you pull it out again the last part of the load animation will replace the draw animation. If you do this right, the draw animation will be completely replaced with the much shorter last bit of the reload animation.
you absolutely went above and beyond in evaluating the hellbore lasguns and all of their quirks. This type of information is the stuff that ABSOLUTELY needs to be consolidated onto a comprehensive wiki, so that youtube algorithms don't wash this video away in the future, being drowned out by more recent videos that vaguely match people's search terms
That doesnt happen as long as the title properly des ribes the topic which it does. This will always come up in searches just based on the title and its popularity/engagement
What annoys me about this gun and I can't un-see it, is the mount rail. This gun clearly was designed to have scopes attached to it. Then I would probably use this gun. And even have a range finder attachment so you can use this weapon to its fullest potential.
Same. It would be much better with a scope. I’m not sure why you can’t customize guns
Nonsense. If I was at scope range then how would I be able to hit enemies with the stabby bit?
just pretend you're 40k simo hayha. thats how i use the helbore lasgun
@@TalosLordOfNight There is a weapon customization mod available out there. while it lacks scopes there is optics available
@@conscript900 care to tell us the name? cheers
I got an 80 damage, 80 stopping power, 80 charge speed Helbore Mk I with +25% maniac and +25 unyielding a few weeks ago and I've been loving it. Glad to see testing confirmed this was the optimal build. Not sure if No Respite makes any meaningful difference on certain targets, but at least Onslaught is the important blessing to have.
That's basically BiS already for the Helbore I! I have almost the same as yours and it a workhorse for my vet! Time to try grinding for the equivalent Helbore II next I suppose!
Well i got Hellbore II with 80 stopping power 80 charge speed 70 +flak + unarmored. Its a confortable to use gun, need to rarely reload (can sustain valley fire ez with reload) but its notisable weaker vs most enemies. usually just use it to clear gunners.
Good video. Surprised to see no mention of the fact that you're immune to suppression while charging shots, and that Helbore's are still pinpoint accurate when jumping while charging without any other movement input (it's QoL to be able to shoot over team mates in your line of fire).
If you wanted to make MKIII breakpoint calculations even more complex you could have looked at partially-charged shots to kill Scab/Dreg trash units faster.
Good points! I actually missed that and definitely a good point of the Helbore! I actually tried to do the math for partial charges but the problem was I couldn't isolate if partial charges had RDF or not, and trying to work with partial charges along with Onslaught made it hard to control over time.
I did however try and alternative build for the Mk III - build it for Scab and Dreg killing with tapfiring. Unfortunately, the drawbacks of the build outweighed the merits it provided...
Wow, didn't know that.
Nice video man, covers a lot of what's important for the helbores. Btw, it's not a big thing, but for those who are too used to the Kantraels, it's nice to know that the helbores are actually very useful when hipfiring. Especially the mk3. Very useful to know about when you gotta dodge past a bulwark shield to get the first hit in (then finish him with the followup). 2 tapping ogryns is such a beautiful ability on D5 games.
This is the clearest explanation I have seen so far. Respect
Glad it was helpful!
One of my favourite build on Vet use the 3 Helbore, a dedicated sniper build using Camo expert to shoot mostly in peace.
Teammates have more aggro but in exchange they have more dps and a bit of toughness with Covering fire when i shoot. I stay in the backline, most likely having the high ground if i can, but not too far of my squad because Camo almost don't work if you are alone.
Most of the time I stay with Counterfire to hunt down gunners specials & elites except when i use the Mk III i put "The bigger they are ..." and go for the big game hunting.
It's sad there is no redhot or a better sight otherwise they would be the perfect sniper in the game.
Thank you for this! This explains so much why this gun seems so difficult to use!! Now I can focus on the right stats, big preesh!
**shock trooper has entered the chat**
so hah hah, im defiantly going to go for a hellbore 3 build in the future, since. if i did my math's correctly, you can get up to 80% crit chance (or more with buffs from other players)
so your ammo consumption would be absolutely minimal
the game also calculated crits before the shot leaves the gun. meaning. even if you miss a shot. if that shot was going to be a crit. you still don't loose any ammo, even if your not hitting anything
based on your video the hellebore 3 seems like the ideal choice for this setup. I'm looking forward to trying it out
I haven't given the 1 an honest try, but after watching this I will. My go to has generally been the 2. The superior fire rate paired with counter fire makes it great for popping enemy shooters quickly. I also have a super high stat'd 3 I take out with the ogryn slaying perk just to watch crazy numbers pop up. One shotting reapers is satisfying, and watching the zealot turn and look to you in confusion with his thunder hammer charged after you killed a boss before he could get into melee is the icing on the cake. Definitely not the best out of the three for a multitude of reasons, but very fun to use.
You're right I had no idea about how these worked. Thanks for the in depth analysis.
Appreciate the commitment of going for the Lucius and Shovel combo for the gameplay.
I've seen this weapon do work in missions but you've got to be committed to getting a good one and using it well.
I mained shovel on my Vet before I even knew with the Death Korps of Krieg were! Nothing beats a good bonk to the face!
Another use for the melee attack is to keep Counterfire up, since it's a ranged weapon a shooter kill will refresh ult.
No Respite also synergizes with using the Helbore's melee attack and followup shots
There is definitely style points for doing this! Can't go wrong with being cool!
I prefer a crit build with infernus.
Love the hellbore. Ive mained it since they fixed the VFX. They're the best all round ranged weapons in the game.
Helbore Lasgun my beloved
So a conter point to sustain fire, and why i feel "brake points" loose the forest thrue thetrees. The point is DPS on single target. You are corect in the statment that most perks do not do anything for any of the wepons, and this is under the presumption that I only use the mk3. "Surigical" as a perk ask you to slow down your fire rate, defeqting onalaugth. Well sustain fires garentees anything you did not kill on the first shot will be killd on the next one.
Well onslaught is a must, i feel there is a tendency for newer vets to get scope eye, sitting and waiting for shots for too long and surgical defintly helps slow down your play, in a fast game.
Wat
My counter to your arguement is: would have the enemy that needed the second shot die from it without Sustained Fire anyway? Most of my breakpoint checks show that if something needed a second shot, the raw damage from the charged shot alone would finish it off without needing the extra 15%
@@rykenxiv so you may be correct, ill be honest I also try and aim for the head so I picked it on the idea of "sloppy shot" clean up, incase i had missed the head. I didnt think about it being overkill. I do think in terms of DPS insted of brake points so I kinda missed the hard numbers.
Ill keep sustain fire, becuse in my Eyes, surgical is just asking me to slow down my shooting. but I also agree that, kidna like plazma gun, they need to Add a second perk that Actually dose something. becsue in both we are trying to finde the "least useless" second perk. grate vid btw, thank you for making it!
By far the best weapon to level a character. Special attack through missions, combined with a special from the Devils Claw and parry in tricky situations! 😊
Gotta love your breakpoints
Thank you for taking the time and effort doing these videos
Hope we get one on the Accatran Recon Lasguns
Is anyone else sad we didn't get a can opener or punishing fire esc blessing option on the hellbore? Maybe a x% rending buff on weaksopt kill using gun special. Or make it a charge speed buff, that could also be fun.
I say this because
A- funny bayonet charge
B- it would make the inclusion of a proper bayonet feel more intentional and encourage it's use.
C- the damage and speed (on mk I and II) are really good.
All mks one shot most smaller enemies on weak spot hit, and body shot hit in some cases like dogs, they even have reach and cleave on their side along high stab speed for some, so why not embrace that part of the gun.
I will admit mk III..... it's slow and it doesn't really seem to get any important benefit while having a attack angle that tends to be shockingly prone to just chipping shoulders which tends to be armored.... It needs some love considering it's lighter cousins..... Maybe better cleave target/damage, base body shot damage, and a flatter swing would help, make it into a anti hord option rather than the special poker of the others.
Thanks for putting together such high quality content!
Glad you enjoy it!
Big Thank you for your Guide. I have invest many Plassteel to Build a god MKII. But i have one 79% Damge 80% Stoping Power 69% Chargerate and 25% to Flak and Unarmored targets. But sometime i have Low roll DMG then make my weapon only 200 dmg.
This was marvellous thank you for covering my favorite weapon!
Can you please do voidstrike staff next!?
Would love a breakdown of any of the iconic Zealot weapons. It's hard to know which ones are good for which builds/missions. Stats and blessings change all the time with patches but archetypes will remain throughout every update. Im trying to climb out of Malice difficulty and I want to have a well rounded arsenal for any mission not just the one bread&butter with high stats.
Not that I'm promising anything... but I've been playing with Chain weapons a lot recently... ;)
I would love to know if you could do a video on the good old revolver next! Really huge fan of the weapon, but can never seem to make it work. I know it's probably suited for damnation, but I still enjoy it quite a bit. Currently running Crucian Roulette and Sustained Fire with Maniac and Flak damage
This just baffles me. For what purpose would they make such intricate mechanics for guns, only to not tell us?? And why do only certain variants have these quirks? Is this the so called overdesign ive never actually seen before?
Original design was one weapon with addons to modify the guns. So one helbore lasgun and addons to get I/II/III. Somehow, fatahark management decided to just split the weapon into three from the original designs. Rumor has it was to prop up artificial player retention to grind for all weapons but this is largely supported by Fatshark’s effort to prioritize cash shop implementation over actual gameplay (actual changes from alpha to game launch was really just cash shop).
Fatshark has always had a fairly intricate design for their weapons. Even in Vermintide 2, you do need to learn weapons and go thru breakpoints to play on Cataclysm effectively. I believe they don’t explain things thoroughly so that the player is left to figure it out, and those who want to play on the highest difficulties must learn them. It creates a skill barrier to entry, making harder difficulties rewarding. That’s just my opinion anyways.
@@jacobvriesema6633 as believable as that is, i seriously believe FS doesnt really play their own game as the highest level that extensively. If they did, we wouldnt see so many game breaking bugs every single patch; neither would we see the lack of meaningful changes to the existing weapon pool for almost half the time the games been out. I do also think a larger part is their incompetent leadership and planning though.
@@sturmmagnunstein1008 it’s certainly possible they have a small QA department. Bugs were common in V2 as well, and not uncommon for FS to create a new one with a patch.
@@jacobvriesema6633 yeah. but a bug introduced with some maps and a few hats that literally crashed on launch for certain hardwares (at least 30% of the playerbase) is pretty unforgivable.
thanks mate. helped a ton
I've noticed a lot of latency related jank with the mk.3. chaining shots together to utilize Onslaught is near impossible
I love the gun but the front sight post gets lost in the background for me so its hard to hit reliable first shots 😂
love them videos ! keem em coming !
Love the work Ryken ill have to give the mk1 another try now. Personally after using all of them, the mk2 has been my favorite. A big point about it, is it has the best ammo efficiency of the 3 weapons. With tap fires and barely charged shots consuming very little ammo for very high amounts of damage and it can still deal with crushers which the mk1 struggles with a bit.
Indeed! Made a pinned comment to highlight the strength of the Mk II when you can get it rolling! (Had to do it a service since I meme'd on it in the video :P)
I managed to get my hands on a near perfect Mk1 a while ago. 379 base stats, Surgical 4, Onslaught 4, Flak +25%, and unfortunately a Crit perk. With Sniper with can two shot Reapers and one shot ragers on top of just utterly annihilating monsters. It's my go-to gun for quickplay and I constantly just run laps around the team in terms of kills and damage done....also I constantly scare my friends into thinking a Sniper is around.
Its a good gun that is held back by that terrible swap speed. It really holds the weapon back imo.
Mk 3 is wonky as a hybrid. You want to learn how to half charge it to really pull the most out of it.
Mk 2 is the variant you want to try if you are new to helbores. It feels like works like a Kantrael.
@@convergence1point all the times I've used the mk3, I've never tested firing a half-charged shot. Just always assumed it acted like an uncharged shot. Does it actually increase damage and reduce ammo used?
Yes, the mk3 has a terrible base damage compared to the other helbores. So you can slightly charge the shot to increase the damage so you can properly headshot a shooter with one shot. Otherwise, you are likely to need two shots, which will rekt your efficiency. (Sorry about the spam, RUclips froze and failed to respond to input, had to delete all these extra inputs)
DO NOT underestimate that bayonet! A Hellebore II with the stagger effect and paired with stealth perks is GAME OVER for entire groups of enemies when you get close enough to lock them into melee.
this is not a meme. The I/II bayonet attack is faster than a catachan sword and essentially feels like the rapier thrust from Vermintide, on repeat
Plasma gun next please!
Holy shit I always wondered why the damage felt off somtimes. Reverse damage falloff is fucking weird.
Helbore mk2 is a beast of gun. A best choice of all 3 variants.
I've recently came into possession of a Hellbore mk 2 with god roll damage stats (reaching the mythical 360 unarmored damage and enough stopping power to reach 360 damage with flak). I also have onslaught 4 earned through blessings and I managed to roll No respite 3, by the emperor I think the Hellbore 2 is one, if not, the best lasgun when rolled well.
Like I don't even want to use the Kantrael 12 anymore, it and the other hellbores are now too slow for my taste.
Nice work! You've hit the jackpot with that roll!
Dark tide can you please add more quality of life things like attachments (simply buy them with coins for only 10k each
I really like using the Helbore but they really need to think about putting in an optic option. If the gun is basically meant to be a charge-up sniper rifle, why the hell are the ironsights so atrocious?
If the Helbores ever got optic scopes, they would be a top 3 best weapons for me no questions asked!
That damned dog!
Can't stand the iron sights on the thing. Hope they actually release weapon customization rather than sweep it under the rug.
is this still up to date? or did they changed something with Patches?
What's about veteran talents affecting guns?
I always wondered why I saw so many people saying the Helbore II was the best Helbore. They usually quoted its faster fire rate as being superior, but whenever I tried it it just never matched up.
Its actually very strong - probably the strongest shooter killer in the game if Min-Maxed as shown since you can 1 shot bodyshot shooters on Damnation with the a firerate faster than that of the Kantrael MG IV from any range!
@@rykenxiv Thanks for the breakdown on one of my favorite class of weapons!
I never tried building an optimal rifle when just comparing guns to see which ones I'd like to use. And since baseline MK I blew baseline MK II out of the water I completely wrote it off.
After this I'm definitely going to try investing in a good MK II!
Can i pls ask for a rumbler video? Its a weapon that i want to like so much but cant seem to get the build right, since the explosions rarely kill more then one enemy. Or maybe its the gun and not me?
Can you elaborate a bit more as to why you don't seem to prioritize "No Respite" [Up to +12.5-20% Damage on Hit (Staggered Enemy), scaling with Stagger.] as a weapon blessing? On a t4 it can give an extra 20% damage which seems amazing. With this blessing, any target that requires more than one shot (assuming the first shot staggers the target) would potentially turn it into a 2-3 shot kill? Does the blessing not affect any break points at all?
Sure! With the appropriate breakpoints, the Helbores should be able to 1-shot most if not all regular enemies. That leaves Elites and Specials for No Respite to work on.
Of the Elites, you aren't going to be doing anything to Crushers, Maulers, and Reapers since the Helbores don't have the stagger power to activate No Respite.
Ragers that are outside of your reverse damage falloff range could benefit from it if your opening shot can stagger them, but looking at the breakpoint table, even with +20% on the following shots, your breakpoints don't change - except for the Helbore I where it can help you 2-shot bodyshot Dreg Ragers (assuming they aren't already running since they have very strong stagger resistance when doing so).
No Respite doesn't help with Specials and Gunners as well.
The only other place I see it being helpful is helping you reach the 2-shot bodyshot breakpoint against Shotgunners on the Helbore II (but then I recommend No Respite on the Helbore II anyway).
So overall, No Respite is pretty niche in where it can make a difference. The defining question you need to answer with No Respite on anyway weapon is: Would what you're shooting at die from the second shot anyway even without No Respite?
No Respite is conditionally useful if it can reduce your breakpoints from 3 to 2, otherwise there's very little practical reasons to take it!
Hope this helps!
@@rykenxiv Thanks for the insight, I've often wondered how practical No Respite might be combined with "Falter" [+30-60% Target Stagger on Weak Spot Hit.] Not just on the Helbores but on other Lasguns as well. There are just too many better blessing alternatives however to legitimise it.
Would it tip the balance against Ogryn's I wonder? So you could turn a Helbore into more of an Ogryn killer specifically, might be worth dropping Onslaught for just for that niche capability.
@@_Saracen_ I have tested the Falter + No Respite combo before, specifically on the Vrak III Headhunter. The idea was if Falter could give the weapon enough stagger on the first shot of its burst to active No Respite on the remaining two shots.
Unfortunately, weapons with already low stagger power don't benefit much from Falter since Falter scales better with weapon with high stagger, but then if your weapon has high enough stagger, you don't really need Falter...
Examples like this are something I want to cover in an upcoming video about the state of blessings and weapons in the game!
Any feat recommendations?
I...what? What's the game mechanic AND cannonical lore for how a laser weapon has reverse dmg fall off?
Finally!
alright, that's it, I'm making myself a god tier Mk1 and 3 and equipping a shovel.
Do you have any good data on the bayonet on these weapons? I find the bayonet on the MK II and I to be very satisfying and useful as it is a direct stab that is very quick and easy to pull off weak spot dmg with. It's fast and versatile and super useful when something gets too close to you, or to even kill dogs, mutants and pretty much anything except Carapace armored enemies, the dps it can generate is very high I find and it can also stagger enemies like Dnoughts even tho it doesn't do that much damage against them.
The MK III bayonet animation however is MUCH worse as it's a vertical slash that is much slower and harder to make weak pot hits with. @rykenxiv
use it with veteran perk crit uses no amo and surgical... no use of amo and crit every time!!
Would having a +critical damage perk be decent at all with a weapon using Surgical, or is it just a bad trade-off
+Crit damage isn't the worst perk you can get, it's just the +damage perks against armour classes is always active and allows for more consistent performance and fine tuning of your weapons breakpoints!
Best one is Mk1… best damage best rof paired with onslaught and Salvo “each shot gains 15 percent per 2nd and 3rd shot”. Paired with sniper makes it the best sniper weapon and out damages the Bolter in many categories minus bosses
How do you find the hellbore III compares to the plasmagun in the monster hunter role and fun factor?
The Helbores III's main weakness is combat sustainability. With only 12 in the mag at best, you have very little room for error. The plasma gun is more forgiving in this area. If given a choice to bring one of them into a Damnation mission, I'd take the Plasma gun over the Mk III - simply because there more space to work with it and you can deal with Bulwarks - something the Mk III can't on its own!
Like the Kantrael XII, the Helbore III can be very, very good it what it does - players who know their assignment with the weapon make it so that the rest of the team basically never sees any Ragers or "softer" specials around. But the Helbore III is only as good as your team will allow it to be!
These are my experiences with it anyway!
what is your take on the helbore?
Like im dispaointed I cant have an overheat DMR like the veriants in lore. But I found these ones to be... weird.
I mained the Helbores on my Vet in my early hours of Darktide! Used the Helbore II (this was before I delve into min maxing it) because I really enjoyed the flow and rhythm of combat once you got rolling with the charged shots!
i dont get why u would meme on hellbore 2 its the best by far imo like sure the 3 might only needs 2 shots on reaper head however i shoot my 4 needed to kill faster and waste less ammo than the 3 i mean it helps that mine is 80dmg 80 stopping power and like 79 on charge rate but so far the best to handle best ammo efficent gun i used like kantrael is way better on maniacs and regular gunnrs for sure however i can kill heavily armored targets np oh and tier 4 unarmored and flak dmg so its pretty much a god roll
While I do meme on it, it doesn't mean its a bad weapon! Built properly, it easily takes the title of best anti-shooter weapon in the game - more so than the Kantrael XII even! It's just until you reach a certain threshold, its always going to be compared against the Mk I which works very well with natural stats already.
Also, the actual conclusion I drew from this video is that they aren't worth the left mice buttons I have to sacrifice to use one. And those death korps cosplayers engender a special kind of hatred in me for having the same yellow colour as dreg uniforms. Not a ptsd trigger, but rather a case of either wasted ammo from my shooting them or dying from getting shot by some dreg I thought was them. Or worse: being conscious of the extra mental load I have to expend to prevent the aforementioned phenomena.
Steel Legion; if they were Krieg cosplayers they would wear that leather coat and legionaire gas mask.
@@johndane9754 I'm probably a bad fan. =( It only just occurred to me, after nearly 16 years of being in the 40k fandom that there's a distinction between the two. /hangsheadinshame
Regardless. Wearing similar colours as the enemy is super uncool.
@@owa1985 That's okay, I'm annoyed with them as well.
I tried hellbore and came to conclusion that it might hit hard, but Kantrael XII is more consistent so to speak. Long animations paired with not great ironsights and and special attack that is basicly a pointy stick/bat that amost usless on damnation makes it subjectivly unweildy. Flashlight might not be able to poke things, but at least i can SEE where i'm going (most of the time). Got used to kantrael so much and managed to make a near great roll in modifires aswell perks and blessings that it shreds nearly anything in a few well placed shots in the noggin. For carapace i just throw grenade and either peppering bullwark in the meat or smacking crusher with power sword when team mates are busy at dealing with other things.
Right now the thing i want FATSHARK to do is to make some investment for diamantine like. Unlocking perks/blessings. Came back 3 weeks ago and already got over 10k of it. And might allow to roll weapon modifires distribution. At least you'll have more incentitive to get 380 weapon and after looking on it stats saying instead of "YUCK, to the trash bin you go" you say after looking on the pile of diamantine in the corner. "Mm i can fix it!" And then switching Hadron into overdrive rolling mode to get what you want.
Tbh, I kinda figure that the Plasma Gun does what the Helbore wants to do, but it does it better.
On top of doing what the Bolter wants to do, but with faster weapon swap, larger clip, and better accuracy.
@@greyfalconow9467 pretty much the moment you swipe that shitty aim reticle for hellbore one with a mod XD
You have to get use to the weapon, as it's true it feels like it's working against you in the beggining. Don't be affraid to activate volleyfire to get the rifle out faster when you really need it and keep your distance from the fights. The cleave sound like it makes it good against horde, but i found that it really is usefull to pick out elites and specials in hordes. Paired with the sniper feat and counterfire, there is little in the game that doesn't die in more than 2 headshots. Even crusher aren't safe from you, and you still have the capacity to slaughter walls of shooters with ease.
@@greyfalconow9467 Plasma gun has really bad ammo reserves though. Amazing clip capacity, but bad total ammo. So if there's 2 vets using plasma gun, then the team's gonna have ammo issues unless they are lucky with ammo crates.
@@zanaros2606 Kinda depends, it's actually decently ammo efficient on uncharged shots. And it can nuke elites like it's nothing.
Video needs chapters, but other than that its great.
Are chapters different from timestamps?
Okay somehow your video has them now... didnt when it dropped, never mind me.
schnupser spuskler peidei