I suppose I should make this clarification here - since I've been observing chatter about blessing selections: As I've mentioned in my video, for the build path we've chosen - Problem Solver (Killing Elites, Specials, and Monsters), taking Headtaker was my preferred choice simply because its active practically all the time you'll need it to be without having to stress about keeping the blessing up. Even push attacks and the damage ticks from your stun grenade will ALSO refresh Headtaker! Hell, even the impact from your rush making contact with an enemy will proc and refresh headtaker - it's literally a free Tier IV Perk's worth of damage that requires very little effort to maintain and allows you to focus on getting better on things that matter more - your positioning and flow of combat. Slaughterer on the other hand, as I've said, is NOT a bad blessing! It has a much higher power potential (75% vs 25%) against Headtaker. This means more cleave (not that it matters since you damage 3 targets anyway and more impact on top of more damage). And sure, you only need 2 stacks to surpass Headtaker in terms of damage, and getting 2 kills isn't very difficult at all. HOWEVER - this all means nothing if you can't get any kills or are not in a position to get those kills and make it back in time to deal damage to whatever it is you want to hit - you only have 3.5 seconds to make a Thunderclap happen after your last kill! This aspect of Slaughterer adds variability to its performance - sometimes it'll perform extremely well, and sometimes it'll do absolutely nothing for you. This is why I take Headtaker - for consistency. Nothing to do with whether I can or cannot kill anything, or manage a mixed horde, or fight a monster in a middle of a horde. TL:DR: Headtaker - consistency, barely any effort to maintain, always up when you need it. basically works as an extra Tier IV perk against everything. Slaughterer - much, much greater damage potential, can be devastating against mixed hordes, needs more effort to maintain, worthless if no ads for you to kill or if you or your target (monster) is out of position. Also, with Slaughterer being as strong as it is right now, I'm honestly not surprised if it gets nerfed a little...
I saw Telopots using an Infernus Las pistol for this Headtaker stacking purpose, and the synergy is great since you can maneuver so well with the pistol. You could even afford to pick Ghost as a second blessing for the pistol, to become highly resistant to shooters while on the move. Rounding out the kit that's otherwise quite narrow focused.
Hi Ryken, i found your channel from the DT launcher and was very impressed with this video. Do you have by any chance a clan or something similar where like minded people gather to analyze the game? Its been my main hobby since launch but i fail to find people that enjoy diving deeper. Team based strategies, less known combos, etc?
@@InstabilerStoff Glad you enjoyed the video and the work put in! I don't have any clan or discord where its just meant for deep level analysis. That being said, maybe I'll look into doing something after the October patch - there's going to be a lot of testing and build-crafting going on then!
6:40, the pain, he can literally see you're waiting for him to grab it as you throw it but instead he jumps down XD I always appreciate it when a player already is ready to catch it, so moments like this make me go "Come on bruh..."
Truly appreciate all the time and effort you put into properly testing these interactions. I came to the same conclusions you did through my testing so my build was correct, but I learned 2 things that will help immensely with the setup and functionality so big big thanks!
I've really been enjoying the ogryn for this whole time. Only occasionally changing class that was until I got the thunder hammer last Thursday. Now I'm really enjoying the zealot so this video comes just in time for me as I'm close to level 30 on my boy. BLOOD FOR THE EMPEROER SKULL FOR THE GOLDEN THRONE!
I do like the Ogryn chargeable bonk staff, too, though. Kinda like the zealot club or t-hammer, but with the benefit of it scattering or killing everyone on a charged sweep (can’t remember if the charged zealot mauler hits everyone too).
I absolutely love analytical gamers like you who take the time to run these tests and share your findings. It's like gaming science :) . Even if your conclusions in this video aren't somebody else's, you took the time to generate data and share it with the community. Thank you for your service, gamer.
Picked up the Thunder Hammer on my Priest a couple days ago, and it feels so satisfying to use. Bringing the Emperor's Bonk down on Ragers and Maulers and watching them ragdoll is pure dopamine.
Love these videos, thank you for breaking all of this down. My friend and I keep watching zealots one shotting beasts and we were wondering what the build was
With the old Thrust bug (where it gave you 150% more power) and a perfect Thunderclap with buffs and all, you could (theoretically), deal... about 36k damage to a beast to its pimple... A juiced up Thunderclap can take down a Demonhost in 3 - 4 hits on Damnation, but its definitely not as op as when the bug was around!
Excellent guidance as always. It's a shame this iconic weapon is generally less useful than a Mk5 Axe - it is amazing for Big stuff, but less so for rank and file
I'm alright with weapons being very strong in a particular area but weaker in others - gives meaning to the choices in our arsenal else we end up with the "perfect 1 weapon". But yes, I feel the Thunder Hammers could use a little loving and be buffed in a way that leans more into the Problem Solving role or at least have the blessings to trade off problem solving for better horde management!
I agree, but I think that’s the inherent problem facing games like this. If you want variety and choice, there have to be trade offs or else you just have one or two options that are clearly the best.
>Have Crucis hammer >Spin like a helicopter into the mob of enemies >Have highest possible attack speed >Chain heavy attacks until there is no more grass to mow
With the Ironhelm I've found sprint cancelling on the first or second heavy to be a much quicker way to circle back into the horde control combo. Still stick with the Crucis overall tho
I was thinking about Shock & Awe and I figure it must function somewhat like Perfect Strike on the Heavy Eviscerator or Chainswords (Critical Hits ignore Hit Mass Bonus from Armour) but be a little more generalized. With the short uptime on proc and the attack speed of the hammers, I imagine it's just meant to apply to all enemies hit during the current swing after an enemy is killed during that swing. Would be great if it allowed you to damage more than 3 enemies, because I can't think of anything that causes a heavy from a thunder hammer to stop short, aside from maybe Crushers or Bulwarks, but then only proccing when killing them is extremely situational and probably not worth it.
I have played a lot with the crucis and then the ironhelm. I have one of each with 79-80 damage/penetration/first target modifiers and level 4 thrust and unyielding. The ironhelm is much more versatile and just a better weapon I believe. The benefits of the crucis are more damage on the special attack and perhaps a slightly better horde clear heavy animation, only horizontal swings without the one vertical swing like the ironhelm. But the cleave effect of the ironhelm is too good to pass up. Only on occasion in heresy or damnation will you be confronted by individual elites that you can easily target - there is almost always trash mixed in with them. With the crucis, there's not much you can do but swing away un-charged. The ironhelm solves that issue handily. The vertical heavy attack animation is not truly bad either, it will help in that mixed trash-elite scenario; clear with the horizontals, then focus a head bonk on a tougher target with the vertical. And at the end of the day the ironhelm, even with it's lower damage, will still 1 shot a sleeping daemonhost if you do the stealth/backstab kind of build and that's a breakpoint that just can't be ignored.
The simple "Use Thy Wrath Be Swift feat" was by far the best part of this video. Holy Revenant is planning to fail, Faith Restores all is fine if you take small chip but keep an eye on your toughness to bring it back when possible but Thy Wrath Be Swift is so good. Although I'm a bit bias'd. I've never actually unequipped my Crucis thunder hammer (except to try the Ironhelm of which I was dissapointed by) so I dont need to swap feats to accompany any other weapon.
Personally, I just like the attack patterns of the Crucis, myself. It has the same swing patterns as Bardin’s great axe/great hammer from Vermintide 2 where you can spam lights for single targets (though you could block cancel the third if you wanted) and heavies for horse and it does have the stronger t-clap. I get the utility of the Ironhelm, but I think I’ll go back to the Crucis after my run with IH bc I like Crucis better if you know how to clear the garbage away to clap the big boys.
15:48 I would also add that it doesn't apply to lasguns, you will still be affected by supression, on a side note, what does effect lasguns is the 20% attacks speed bonus
I never noticed the huge bonus to flamers from amped lights before. That's neat. Pox Hounds definitely aren't getting an 8x damage multiplier though. More like ~3.5x and it's still not enough for a one shot on a headshot on damnation without Rising Conviction/Headtaker stacks.
I think shock and awe does work, but the benefit is only tangible on groaners and pox walkers when they're bunched up and you're hitting them with side to side heavy attacks. I don't think it's meant to stack. Basically it just gives you a couple extra points of damage on the second target you hit since you almost always kill the first target with the heavy swing.
Thank you! My personal take on how I'd buff the Thunder Hammers is to create some real build-crafting decision making for it! (Right now its all just stacking power) We can do this by making it lean into its strengths more, giving it greater lethality when dealing with single targets (increase single target light attack damage), increasing its ability to deal with armoured enemies. A suggestion I made in another comment somewhere was to give the Thunderclaps its own attack pattern since it has its own damage profile already (Crucis gets an overhead strike, and the Ironhelm get a horizontal swing for example). But really, what the Thunder Hammers need are more useful and meaningful blessings to choose from that allow us to make decisions since of just the tri-force of power blessings... (My next State of the Game video will have something to the tune of almost 70 blessing suggestions that Fatshark can mostly implement with ease... I think... and there are couple of blessings in there for the Thunder Hammers that would accomplish this!)
@@rykenxiv 100% agree, its seems blessings across most of the weapons could be tweaked a fair bit to allow more build diversity. Looking forward to the next vid!
Just got a really good 377 crucis with slaughter 4 and unyielding damage 4, so this video is right on time. I'm a little bit puzzled though, because the light attack claims it was better against single targets then heavy, and I felt it was much easier to get headshots with lights. What if you took both slaughterer and headtaker and spammed light attacks? Make take more hits but would the amortized DPS suffer that much?
Crucis heavy attacks are indeed better for killing things simply because it does more damage than its lights, but if you see the odd shooter or pox walker, using light attacks won't slow you down if you need to keep moving since you don't have to charge up the attack. That being said, it's out of habit for me to use heavy attacks on almost everything simply because it feels much nicer to smack enemies around with (this is totally acceptable reason to use heavies everywhere!) The light attacks of both hammers in general could use a buff - as I've mentioned in the video, either hammer doesn't naturally achieve any meaningful breakpoints. In its current state, there's almost no reason to use light attacks - even with your example of Slaughterer and Headtaker, the CC from the heavy attacks would also be boosted and give you more space to work with than with light attacks alone!
I have a -40% enemies hit mass on kills & 20% Power on charge damage on a crucis it make a world of difference. My heavy attack can cleave up to 14-16 enemies while dodge moving.
Thanks for this video, very informative. Out of curiosty, when you say +dmg perks, are we talking minimum +20%? Or do they require 25%? I only ask b/c, sometimes, we're stuck with 20% of one and it has to be locked if we want 25% of another. Thanks!
Yes! Whenever + damage perks are mentioned, they are assuming 25% (Tier IV). This is largely to make the calculations easier since there are already so many numbers and moving parts involved. Often times, 20% is sufficient to hit certain breakpoints but it will largely depend on the base stats of your weapon and the natural breakpoints it can reach! Using the maximum potential of perks and blessings allows me to calculate the full upper potential of the weapon and so gives us something to look out for or grind towards!
@@rykenxiv Thanks for the clarification. I managed to get a new god roll Ironhelm and have been making use of that. 80% dmg, penetration, defense, and first target, 58% on crowd control (378, light attack 142, heavy attack 266) with unmodified perks of 15% sprint efficiency and 25% dmg to unarmored and slapped on Thrust IV thereby locking the Slaughterer III on it. I'm thinking of taking off 15% sprint efficiency for 25% unyielding and this will probably hold me over until I find a better one. The Crucis I have is 80% dmg, 79% penetration, 78% first target, 69% crowd control (nice) and 55% defense (360) with light dmg of 211, heavy dmg of 265. unmodified perks of 15% block efficiency and +1 stamina. Thrust IV with locked Headtaker III. I'm thinking of taking off the +1 stamina for 25% unyielding or would you replace the block? Thanks for the reply and for this video.
@@Vulcanerd Definitely replace the Block perk since Stamina is more universally useful and indirectly gives you more "points" to block with anyway! Nice base stats and blessings on both Hammers!
HEY! Your video just showed up on the Darktide steam launcher, next to news about updates. Let's hope they will change and improve the game just like you have suggested few weeks ago!
Hahaha - I thought I had to be a content partner to have my stuff there, but hey - I make things for the community so if its in a place that gets more eyes on my videos as a resource, I don't mind at all in this case!
I'd be very interested to hear your take on Braced Auto Guns. I feel like a lot of people are stuck on the Agripina BAG just because of the damage. I also feel like a lot of people are sleeping on suppression and valuable it is. `
I've had an ironhelm with slaughterer 4 and headtaker 3 since I think about a week after it released. thing is a true workhorse. slaughterer for hordes, headtaker for chunkier bois, bolter for pesky shooters out of range. but with such a heavy weapons loadout I've taken to pulling out my grenade just to sprint with lol
@@BREAKocean oh yeah bro let me just pull out the knife I definitely have equipped when the comment was specifically about using a thunder hammer and bolter. thanks for the input on a 4 month old comment.
You said that the ironhelm 3rd hit (or elite hit) explodes, so does that mean it causes a pushback aoe splash like the mauls? Also in what situation is the ironhelm worth it? The Crucis can always manage hordes with heavy sweeps and usually you're not charging the hammer to deal with trash / average stuff, only elites or specials, so why not just go Crucis so that when you do want to deal with an elite or special it's a guaranteed 1 hit plus doing more dmg to bosses per charged hit? I ask because there wasn't really a conclusion section.
The 3rd overhead does tremedous damage and can also cleave, meaning in a horde situation you are very likely to hit and kill the elite in question. Also no, neither the crucis nor the ironhelm handles horde well - you only do damage to 3 enemies and knock the rest around. Outside of the first enemy the damage is pathetic at best. He even showed this in the video, if you dont believe me. The ironhelm gives you way more control on what enemy youd want to hit on two accounts: the overhead, which limits the hitbox, and the cleave, which goes through chaffs. In a damnation game, this fact alone elevates the ironhelm above the crucis, because the latter often hits an offscreen chaff due to its wide swing and lack of cleave.
@@sturmmagnunstein1008 I meant more as in, he specifically said the charged attack (powered up) of the ironhelm can pierce 2 enmies, so hit 3, unless it's a elite, before it explodes. This suggests to me it aoe explodes like the power mauls do, but I haven't seen that, but I haven't palyed much with the ironhelm.
While empowered, the Ironhelm is able to bypass the "detonate-on-first-contact" rule of the Thunderclap, allowing you actually cleave through some (up to 2) regular ads and still maintain the empowered state. If you cleave more than 2 or if the empowered attack comes in contact with an elite after cleaving through 1 ad, then it detonates and deals the Thunderclap - no explosion like the Power Maul or Crusher! The benefit of the Ironhelm is that is works underpressure better than Crucis! The Crucis deals a heavier Thunderclap but is vulnerable to things like poxwalkers and groaners getting the way of you (GET DOWN MR PRESIDENT!). In this case, the Ironhelm trades some raw power (25% less heavy thunderclap) for the ability to smack an Elite that's in a horde. The most common scenario for this to happen is dealing with Ragers that are rushing up to you along with Bruisers or Poxwalkers. This trade-off in damage for flexibility is one of the reason why I like the Ironhelm more than Crucis!
@@Xeonzswe call that cleaving (attacks going through enemy mass) , and when he said explode it meant the attack will use up the charge and cause massive damage - neither TH has any AoE on special impact (honestly they should).
10:52 - I was hoping you mention Thrust as a must, so there is no need for me to intervene and explain why it is. And you did. Nice. I am a Zealot Preacher main and I agree with everything. Great video. Also I've learned something knew - 13:16 - the flame ticks give Headtaker stacks hahaha this is absolutely ridiculous and should be patched. Oh Fatshark, you goofballs. 🤣
@@BREAKocean Hammer: Crucis Refines: +25% damage vs Carapace (obviously) and +25% damage vs Flak (the majority of enemies wear flak armour) Blessings: Thrust (power on charge time) AND Headtaker (power on hits) OR Slaughterer (power on kills). But my hammer have another 2nd Blessing because I couldn't craft a better one (mine is 79/80, 80/37/80), so Thrust is all you need really (it's +60% power on maximum charges of 3 which is reached in around 2 seconds).
@@Michael.Virtus thank you so much I have like 500k ordo I'll try to get this roll or something close. What ranged weapon do you pair with it? I alternate between flame thrower and revolver depending on party needs
@@BREAKocean Ordo is nothing. You need tons of Diamantine and especially Plasteel. The idea is to buy dozens of hammers from Brunt's Armoury, then Bless them ONCE fishing for good Blessings (tier 3 or 4) which you can earn (dismantle) for later crafting on demand. When you have the needed Blessings (even Thrust tier 3 can one-shot charging Mutants on Damnation but tier 4 is even better obviously). Then start fishing for good Hammer stats AND a proper 1st Blessing so you can add the 2nd yourself (because the 1st is locking and can't be changed). Depending on how much crafting materials you have you might use most of them (or even all if you don't have a lot) for a greatly rolled weapon. But that's what crafting is all about. Then you learn to look in every corner for crafting materials when on mission haha.
I suppose you are doing something wrong cause this weapon two-punch gunners,(light/heavy) one-punch shotgunners, two-punch flak ragers, four-punch maniac-ragers, five-punch maulers, one-punch all usual ranged heretics and this melee guys that stay in front of them,(light attacks) two-punch flamers and one-punch dogs, bombers and snipers. And one thunderclap bullwarks and reapers. Or i am doing something wrong - for me this weapon is about fighting in the middle of horde with crushers, maulers and ragers without any problems cause everything is flying away. Cause of this i use slaughterer and headtaker(t3 cause i am unlucky) and this work nice.(but i have lesser damage to crushers and bosses then you) *all this about crucis
Before i watch i must declare: TH, no matter which type, need to have cleave on the special attack. Honestly, the sole difference between two should really be mostly down to their moveset. When it comes down to it, damage means nothing if i always run into a mister president moment.
What do you mean by more reliable heavy attacks? The ironhelm has that (the heavy overhead) , plus the cleaves on special. The issue is that with the crucis because of its wide swing and lack of any cleave on special you often hit things that are off screen. Sure, you can always say you and/or your team needs to create the space, but this is a horde shooter, so theres always bound to be more than 1 target on screen, let alone offscreen. How often do you hit things offscreen with the crucis special? I only play on damnation so in my case really damn often. Besides, elites are always targeted first anyway when there is a horde. Why is anyone else expected to help create space for the zealot? And why bother when there are other weapons more capable of sniping elites in a horde? Bolter? Plasma gun? Powersword? And is the TH zealot himself capable of creating say space? Maybe, if he can somehow push every chaff to death before his teammates kill all the elites! I dont think asking for maybe just 1 extra cleave for the crucis is somehow going to elevate it into godhood. Just look at those mediocre breakpoints outside of the special - they speak for themselves. This is a QoL change, if anything. Considering the crucis is stuck with the horizontal sweep, i think its more than justified.
I was thinking about that... but I fell like it would overlap a lot with the identity of the Crusher (weapon not the mob) to an extent. If anything, what would be useful, though I don't know how easy would it be to program, is when you activate the Thunderclap, it has its own attack pattern (overhead strike for the Crucis - similar to the Ironhelm heavy 3) and the Ironhelm is a cleaving strike. Since it already has its own damage profile anyway I suppose we could map it to specific attack patterns as well? If the Thunder Hammers need a buff, I think as a regular melee weapon it needs more damage and better blessings that allow you to build into better horde clear at the expense of Problem Solving. This gives us a real choice to make instead of messing with a combination of 3 different blessings which basically all do the same thing
@@rykenxiv crusher and TH have a lot of overlap anyway imo. Not sure why there was really even a need to have the both of them. I will confess i have never used the crusher, since ive never gotten one (actually i dont even think ive seen on in shop), but just on paper they seem to have a little too much in common. If the crusher is like the maul though, its probably more centered on CC? Ive never seen any zealot use it on damnation though.
If the Thunder Hammers are problem solver weapons, the Crusher is a problem delayer. While delaying problems isn't a very good thing to do (this is relevant wisdom for real life too!), it does it incredibly well and is second to none and keeping problem at bay, even on Damnation. It's the only melee weapon I have tested against 50 Maulers at once (in the Psykhanium on Damnation) where I took them all out without taking a single hit. How long I needed to take out 50 maulers with a Crusher however, is an entirely different story... I think if they gave the blast damage AoE to the Thunder Hammers (or came up with another mark where it did 50% less Thunderclap but had a small AoE damage ring) that would make the class of weapons more interesting - on top with some buffs of course. The Crusher could then be an empowered "Storm Mace" where you get buffed up damage but is stronger against armoured enemies specifically (+25% damage + 50% Rending for 6 seconds?)
The Crowd Control potential of the Crusher makes it the best weapon in the game bar none. I don't need to kill things quickly if the party straight up can't get hurt by melee enemies if they stay close enough to me because I CC everything that isn't a monstrosity or mutant. They can kill everything at their leisure, and it's not like I'm taking a crazy amount of time to kill things either. Like, the day after the Crusher was released I went into a run with friends, with myself and another one both running the crusher. Easiest Damnation run of the entire game. I made the observation out loud at the time that I could feel myself getting worse at the game the more I played it, because spamming the special is so powerful it makes it so you don't have to do any kind of melee dance. I've only used it a handful of times since then because it's so outright broken. I will outright say that anyone who thinks the Crusher needs to be buffed is wrong and probably using it wrong. If it needs anything, it needs a rework to make it more engaging to play with by making it less good at infinite CC specials.
As someone who played a lot of Vermintide 2 and greatly enjoyed the great hammer, I will happily continue using the thunder hammer. Knocking around enemies is nothing new
@@VinnyB77 That's very true. I wish they would raise or simply remove the hard-cap on damaged targets per swing with the clubs. It makes no sense when an eight-foot-tall hulk built like a brick shithouse swings a giant pipe the size of a human leg and it only kills three poxwalkers.
The thought of a big fuck-off hammer being absolutely terrible at cleaving through shoulder to shoulder clumps of enemies sounds wrong... It's like a rapier getting swung around like an Ultra GreatSword.
My zealot (her name is Natasha) has 30(+80) lvl and after all my attempts to get a decent thunder hammer from crafting and Melk i still dont have even ONE th with "Thrust" not even the blessing itself in a blessing collection... I have 3 completely different Eviscerators tho. Nat loves them :3
@@rykenxiv oh i might make a perfect one yesterday! I had crafted full crit one before with _+10 crit damage_ and _+4 crit chance_ as well as _Perfect strike_ and _Shred IV_ (all that just from lvl it up from grey lol) but _Perfect strike_ is meh so yesterday i got _Wrath IV_ and re-bless it. Now it is 543 ps weapon of mass destruction :D I have "classic" comp Eviscerator w _Savage sweep III_ and _Rampage IV_ to compare and while does "not stuck" in hordes as much it lacks of raw damage to deal vs groups of elites. Even tho it has _+25 vs mutant_ locked perk i could roll the other one only for 1 category of enemies while consistent crits is good vs all. In conclusion i think *THE best Eviscerator* would be: high base w lower penetration and mobility is order to other stats be higher _+crit chance_ _+crit damage_ _Shred IV_ _Wrath III-IV_ or _Savage Sweep III-IV_ And ofcourse it couples with full crit feats build but the important note is: u cant use standart "push > heavy sweep" combo cuz it brakes the "chain" of attacks and _Shred_ wipes. So instead you need so use "heavy sweep > light attack" combo as base. But there is more techs to it. You can implement special attack in combo without wiping _Shred_ stacks if u activate it right before heavy sweep . So vs tough targets combo will do like this "special activate > heavy sweep > heavy attack > special activate > heavy sweep". You can put special activate anywhere in a chain in fact but using it before heavy sweep make Eviscerator stop and do the sawing only when its hits bulky target and ignore lesser ones. *All of this means you can clear hordes with heavy sweep and sawing the tough target inside it in the same time without losing Shred stacks* P.S. Also i have Eviscerator with _Rev it up IV_ + _Bloodletter IV_ and good base. You must yell "For the memes!" when charging with it :D
I just can't make this weapon work for me on Heresy and higher. I will try to use this guide and farm it for optimal blessings, but damn... I perform well better on heresy and damnation with Evis or Crusher
In terms of general gameplay, I find the Eviscerator more flexible and can be used to deal with most situations (especially if I want to dive into a shooter pack). But while the Hammers do fall short in some areas, there's nothing like having the reassurance of being able to take on Monsters and Demonhost if need be!
yes so i love th but everybody come to the same conclusion it should have more horde cleave even if the distribution fall off fast after the 3 initial...
Desperately needs buffs. Before installing mods I didn't realize you only had 2 dodges with this thing. No wonder I felt so immobile... Attack speed is too low, and it needs brutal momentum. The mere fact that I can chop through several dudes with an axe but I can't slam entire crowds out of the way with the *hammer* is absurd.
Monstrosities in darktide are extremely weak and easily countered though, compared to vt2 bosses. That kinda diminishes the entire validity of thunderhammers, making them a very mediocre weapon overall. Using them is like using a heavily nerfed weapon, lol.
For the Crucis Thunderhammer. Try slaughterer and headtaker instead of thrust if you want to make it deal with crowds better. stack it with the feat that makes your attacks unstoppable and the feat that adds more damage on hit and you can just heavy swing straight through hordes. Get 5 kills (which will obviously gives you also the headtaker blessing and feat active) and you can one-shot a deamonhost up to T4. It takes some set up but if you're fighting a monstrosity without it having any allies your pretty much going to win anyways unless you get knocked off the map. If you're doubting this think to yourself when was the last time you lost a run only to a single monstrosity? For me if I ever lose to one its because gunners or specials killed me and my team while the monstrosity pushed us out of cover. If you run both you get to use those ads for fuel to take more than half any monstrosity's hp off in one hit. But eitherway the thunder hammer's a monster against monstrosities so I think it works better to try to cover your weaknesses and Thrust feels counter intuitive to heavy attack spam/ dodge in hordes.
Fair points by you on all accounts, however, the goal of the build was to Problem Solve as fast as possible - the guaranteed power from Thrust is what makes it appealing against Monsters (with or without pleb ads around). Generally, a lone monster is not a problem for anyone who know how to dance with them (they are pushovers in almost all my Damnation games). What does become a problem is when we are taking too long because the Monster has spawned in an inopportune moment or at the same time as the Special spawn timer refreshes. Suddenly, that 36k HP meat bag needs to go down as fast as possible because if it targets the wrong person (your vet or your psyker who are suppose to deal with specials or the horde), then the run is about to get a little more rough! The power boost from your pairing makes dealing with shooter packs a good deal easier since you'll be killing at least 1 shooter per swing, but with hordes, the cleave limit of the Hammer still makes it struggle no matter how much power you stack (against a horde, you'll need just enough power so that you can kill at least 1 poxwalker per heavy swing)
How do I get my brightness better without making the game unplayable in bright areas in the game. I’m on console and there is no gamma option. I can’t see what I’m shooting at
Damn, this video just proved how unusable for me it is, a goddamn combat axe is better for a zealot, or a heavy sword, the axe can take down armored targets at least
Trying to use a Thunder Hammer like a Brutual Momentum Axe or a Heavy Sword will only lead to disappointment! I've learned through my play-testing that when I'm using a Thunder Hammer, I'm not the "first-one-in" person anymore - I'm big gun the team takes out when a Crusher or Mauler patrol is aggro'd. I'm the reassurance for the team that if a Monster appears, they have the confidence knowing that I can bring the Hammer down on them - especially if a demonhost gets pissed off. If I released the full gameplay of the background footage, you'll notice me staying back most of the time, and providing supporting fire with my Vraks III instead of rushing into melee every opportunity I get like I would with a Heavy Sword or Axe. Not staying the Thunder Hammers are fine as is - they could use buff here and there, but for what it is designed to accomplish, I think its at least good in that area!
@@rykenxivI hear ya, and I do understand the purpose of the hammers but they are just not versatile or clutch friendly for me. Used to be a knife/flamer zealot before all the nerfs and was really happy about the clutch ability of the combo, knife for specials and closing in the gaps, flamer for the hordes, plus could melt carapace and rangers with Chastise. Took a break for several months and it doesn't work as great anymore so had to look for new versatile combos. After going through a few weapons I stopped at brutal momentum combat axe which turned out to be good at clearing hordes and killing armor, played with braced autogun and later with shredder pistol for other things, again, braced is good for killing carapace with Chastise, can switch it out for bolter but I prefer being able to whip out a gun fast so the melee/ranged flow is seamless. Thunder hammer, eviscerator are too niche and require certain playstyle which I'm not a fan of, clutch potential is kinda low too, I want to play with these weapons but they feel unwieldy and underpowered so I prefer going with versatility. By the end of the day you should have fun playing the game and your vid just proved that I'm not going to be having fun with hammers, although I should admit, one shot on a muttie is a power trip.
I suppose I should make this clarification here - since I've been observing chatter about blessing selections:
As I've mentioned in my video, for the build path we've chosen - Problem Solver (Killing Elites, Specials, and Monsters), taking Headtaker was my preferred choice simply because its active practically all the time you'll need it to be without having to stress about keeping the blessing up.
Even push attacks and the damage ticks from your stun grenade will ALSO refresh Headtaker! Hell, even the impact from your rush making contact with an enemy will proc and refresh headtaker - it's literally a free Tier IV Perk's worth of damage that requires very little effort to maintain and allows you to focus on getting better on things that matter more - your positioning and flow of combat.
Slaughterer on the other hand, as I've said, is NOT a bad blessing! It has a much higher power potential (75% vs 25%) against Headtaker. This means more cleave (not that it matters since you damage 3 targets anyway and more impact on top of more damage). And sure, you only need 2 stacks to surpass Headtaker in terms of damage, and getting 2 kills isn't very difficult at all.
HOWEVER - this all means nothing if you can't get any kills or are not in a position to get those kills and make it back in time to deal damage to whatever it is you want to hit - you only have 3.5 seconds to make a Thunderclap happen after your last kill! This aspect of Slaughterer adds variability to its performance - sometimes it'll perform extremely well, and sometimes it'll do absolutely nothing for you.
This is why I take Headtaker - for consistency. Nothing to do with whether I can or cannot kill anything, or manage a mixed horde, or fight a monster in a middle of a horde.
TL:DR:
Headtaker - consistency, barely any effort to maintain, always up when you need it. basically works as an extra Tier IV perk against everything.
Slaughterer - much, much greater damage potential, can be devastating against mixed hordes, needs more effort to maintain, worthless if no ads for you to kill or if you or your target (monster) is out of position.
Also, with Slaughterer being as strong as it is right now, I'm honestly not surprised if it gets nerfed a little...
I thought you explained that just fine in the video. Wish people would pay attention!
I saw Telopots using an Infernus Las pistol for this Headtaker stacking purpose, and the synergy is great since you can maneuver so well with the pistol. You could even afford to pick Ghost as a second blessing for the pistol, to become highly resistant to shooters while on the move. Rounding out the kit that's otherwise quite narrow focused.
Hi Ryken, i found your channel from the DT launcher and was very impressed with this video. Do you have by any chance a clan or something similar where like minded people gather to analyze the game? Its been my main hobby since launch but i fail to find people that enjoy diving deeper. Team based strategies, less known combos, etc?
@@InstabilerStoff Glad you enjoyed the video and the work put in! I don't have any clan or discord where its just meant for deep level analysis. That being said, maybe I'll look into doing something after the October patch - there's going to be a lot of testing and build-crafting going on then!
@@rykenxiv Thats awesome, if you have any place where a pm is possible let me know as conversing in a comment section is always a little weird to me
Just what I wanted; a guide to cultivation in the Way of Bonk.
Bonk bonces
6:40, the pain, he can literally see you're waiting for him to grab it as you throw it but instead he jumps down XD
I always appreciate it when a player already is ready to catch it, so moments like this make me go "Come on bruh..."
Yeap... I wondered why he jumped down with me...
I think he tripped down and meant to climb on top of the bar
Congratulations on having your video featured on the Darktide launcher! Recognition you well deserve.
Much appreciated!!
Truly appreciate all the time and effort you put into properly testing these interactions. I came to the same conclusions you did through my testing so my build was correct, but I learned 2 things that will help immensely with the setup and functionality so big big thanks!
The most fun in the game after you've done everything is to make people angry, then reluctantly impressed, when you bonk a daemonhost on your own.
I really appreciate your thorough yet concise Darktide content!
Glad you like them!
I've really been enjoying the ogryn for this whole time. Only occasionally changing class that was until I got the thunder hammer last Thursday. Now I'm really enjoying the zealot so this video comes just in time for me as I'm close to level 30 on my boy. BLOOD FOR THE EMPEROER SKULL FOR THE GOLDEN THRONE!
I do like the Ogryn chargeable bonk staff, too, though. Kinda like the zealot club or t-hammer, but with the benefit of it scattering or killing everyone on a charged sweep (can’t remember if the charged zealot mauler hits everyone too).
You're out here doing real research to improve our gaming experience in Darktide. You have my thanks.
Great stuff, I really enjoy your guides. Congrats on being featured in the Darktide launcher!
Thanks! Yea! That was a surprise to me!
I absolutely love analytical gamers like you who take the time to run these tests and share your findings. It's like gaming science :) . Even if your conclusions in this video aren't somebody else's, you took the time to generate data and share it with the community. Thank you for your service, gamer.
Well done! I’m almost tempted to play something other than my Ogryn now!
I just picked up an Ironhelm Hammer and this is exactly the video I was looking for.
Great info, answering all the questions I had 100%, thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Picked up the Thunder Hammer on my Priest a couple days ago, and it feels so satisfying to use. Bringing the Emperor's Bonk down on Ragers and Maulers and watching them ragdoll is pure dopamine.
Awesome guide. Appreciate all the work it must have taken.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Always happy to see a new upload from you, Ryken!
Glad to hear it! Thank you for your support :)
awesome to see one of your vids on the darktide launcher! keep up the good work!
Yea! That was a surprise to me! Thanks for watching!
Love these videos, thank you for breaking all of this down. My friend and I keep watching zealots one shotting beasts and we were wondering what the build was
With the old Thrust bug (where it gave you 150% more power) and a perfect Thunderclap with buffs and all, you could (theoretically), deal... about 36k damage to a beast to its pimple... A juiced up Thunderclap can take down a Demonhost in 3 - 4 hits on Damnation, but its definitely not as op as when the bug was around!
Excellent guidance as always. It's a shame this iconic weapon is generally less useful than a Mk5 Axe - it is amazing for Big stuff, but less so for rank and file
Yup. Ditto for ChainSwords, or ChainAnything.
But at least they got the LasGuns, Bolter and Flamer right.
Assuming you ignore the Recon LasGuns.
I'm alright with weapons being very strong in a particular area but weaker in others - gives meaning to the choices in our arsenal else we end up with the "perfect 1 weapon". But yes, I feel the Thunder Hammers could use a little loving and be buffed in a way that leans more into the Problem Solving role or at least have the blessings to trade off problem solving for better horde management!
I agree, but I think that’s the inherent problem facing games like this. If you want variety and choice, there have to be trade offs or else you just have one or two options that are clearly the best.
Zealot Chastise the Wicked (charge move) erases stacks of Thrust. Wonder if FatShark will ever fix this.
As always, another great breakdown
Hey just noticed your guide made it to the Darktide Launch page!! Congrats! Hopefully you will get more visibility (as you deserve)
Thank you!!
>Have Crucis hammer
>Spin like a helicopter into the mob of enemies
>Have highest possible attack speed
>Chain heavy attacks until there is no more grass to mow
Very good review on the hammers sah
With the Ironhelm I've found sprint cancelling on the first or second heavy to be a much quicker way to circle back into the horde control combo. Still stick with the Crucis overall tho
I was thinking about Shock & Awe and I figure it must function somewhat like Perfect Strike on the Heavy Eviscerator or Chainswords (Critical Hits ignore Hit Mass Bonus from Armour) but be a little more generalized. With the short uptime on proc and the attack speed of the hammers, I imagine it's just meant to apply to all enemies hit during the current swing after an enemy is killed during that swing. Would be great if it allowed you to damage more than 3 enemies, because I can't think of anything that causes a heavy from a thunder hammer to stop short, aside from maybe Crushers or Bulwarks, but then only proccing when killing them is extremely situational and probably not worth it.
Looking forward to watching this.
I have played a lot with the crucis and then the ironhelm. I have one of each with 79-80 damage/penetration/first target modifiers and level 4 thrust and unyielding. The ironhelm is much more versatile and just a better weapon I believe. The benefits of the crucis are more damage on the special attack and perhaps a slightly better horde clear heavy animation, only horizontal swings without the one vertical swing like the ironhelm. But the cleave effect of the ironhelm is too good to pass up. Only on occasion in heresy or damnation will you be confronted by individual elites that you can easily target - there is almost always trash mixed in with them. With the crucis, there's not much you can do but swing away un-charged. The ironhelm solves that issue handily. The vertical heavy attack animation is not truly bad either, it will help in that mixed trash-elite scenario; clear with the horizontals, then focus a head bonk on a tougher target with the vertical. And at the end of the day the ironhelm, even with it's lower damage, will still 1 shot a sleeping daemonhost if you do the stealth/backstab kind of build and that's a breakpoint that just can't be ignored.
The simple "Use Thy Wrath Be Swift feat" was by far the best part of this video.
Holy Revenant is planning to fail, Faith Restores all is fine if you take small chip but keep an eye on your toughness to bring it back when possible but Thy Wrath Be Swift is so good. Although I'm a bit bias'd. I've never actually unequipped my Crucis thunder hammer (except to try the Ironhelm of which I was dissapointed by) so I dont need to swap feats to accompany any other weapon.
Personally, I just like the attack patterns of the Crucis, myself. It has the same swing patterns as Bardin’s great axe/great hammer from Vermintide 2 where you can spam lights for single targets (though you could block cancel the third if you wanted) and heavies for horse and it does have the stronger t-clap. I get the utility of the Ironhelm, but I think I’ll go back to the Crucis after my run with IH bc I like Crucis better if you know how to clear the garbage away to clap the big boys.
I got here from the launcher, Fatshark must be paying real close attention to this guy, ey? 👌👌👌
@Rykeniv This video and builds still viable six months later?
15:48 I would also add that it doesn't apply to lasguns, you will still be affected by supression, on a side note, what does effect lasguns is the 20% attacks speed bonus
I never noticed the huge bonus to flamers from amped lights before. That's neat. Pox Hounds definitely aren't getting an 8x damage multiplier though. More like ~3.5x and it's still not enough for a one shot on a headshot on damnation without Rising Conviction/Headtaker stacks.
would love an updated version of this
I think shock and awe does work, but the benefit is only tangible on groaners and pox walkers when they're bunched up and you're hitting them with side to side heavy attacks. I don't think it's meant to stack. Basically it just gives you a couple extra points of damage on the second target you hit since you almost always kill the first target with the heavy swing.
great video!
Thanks!
keep up the great work. they needa release more lvl 5 maps to play at high intensity
What curio stats would you all suggest?
yoooo i just want to comment on the song. if you know sappheiros then you definitely know cma and blackmill! great music choice!
You had me in the first half of that intro, ngl
this is why I like using the Antax currently
13:00, that's why you use the thunderhammer and its fucking satisfying.
Always feels good when you Problem Solve smoothly!
Great vid, yet again! What do you think they could do to buff the thunder hammers to get them more in line with other Zelot melee weapons?
Thank you! My personal take on how I'd buff the Thunder Hammers is to create some real build-crafting decision making for it! (Right now its all just stacking power)
We can do this by making it lean into its strengths more, giving it greater lethality when dealing with single targets (increase single target light attack damage), increasing its ability to deal with armoured enemies.
A suggestion I made in another comment somewhere was to give the Thunderclaps its own attack pattern since it has its own damage profile already (Crucis gets an overhead strike, and the Ironhelm get a horizontal swing for example).
But really, what the Thunder Hammers need are more useful and meaningful blessings to choose from that allow us to make decisions since of just the tri-force of power blessings...
(My next State of the Game video will have something to the tune of almost 70 blessing suggestions that Fatshark can mostly implement with ease... I think... and there are couple of blessings in there for the Thunder Hammers that would accomplish this!)
@@rykenxiv 100% agree, its seems blessings across most of the weapons could be tweaked a fair bit to allow more build diversity.
Looking forward to the next vid!
How did ya edit the enemy spawns in the Psykhanium? That would be amazing if we could do that.
I have the creature spawner mod downloaded! Helps a great deal for testing (and messing around)!
@@rykenxiv Thanks for the info on the mod
That timing at 10:17 was spectacular.
Indeed Indeed!
Just got a really good 377 crucis with slaughter 4 and unyielding damage 4, so this video is right on time.
I'm a little bit puzzled though, because the light attack claims it was better against single targets then heavy, and I felt it was much easier to get headshots with lights. What if you took both slaughterer and headtaker and spammed light attacks? Make take more hits but would the amortized DPS suffer that much?
Crucis heavy attacks are indeed better for killing things simply because it does more damage than its lights, but if you see the odd shooter or pox walker, using light attacks won't slow you down if you need to keep moving since you don't have to charge up the attack.
That being said, it's out of habit for me to use heavy attacks on almost everything simply because it feels much nicer to smack enemies around with (this is totally acceptable reason to use heavies everywhere!)
The light attacks of both hammers in general could use a buff - as I've mentioned in the video, either hammer doesn't naturally achieve any meaningful breakpoints. In its current state, there's almost no reason to use light attacks - even with your example of Slaughterer and Headtaker, the CC from the heavy attacks would also be boosted and give you more space to work with than with light attacks alone!
@@rykenxiv Awesome write-up thanks you!
my zealot priest is ALSO named "Rudge"! :D
I hope we get a 3rd hammer,but focused on aoe over single target thunderclap damage
I have a -40% enemies hit mass on kills & 20% Power on charge damage on a crucis it make a world of difference. My heavy attack can cleave up to 14-16 enemies while dodge moving.
Thanks for this video, very informative. Out of curiosty, when you say +dmg perks, are we talking minimum +20%? Or do they require 25%? I only ask b/c, sometimes, we're stuck with 20% of one and it has to be locked if we want 25% of another. Thanks!
Yes! Whenever + damage perks are mentioned, they are assuming 25% (Tier IV). This is largely to make the calculations easier since there are already so many numbers and moving parts involved. Often times, 20% is sufficient to hit certain breakpoints but it will largely depend on the base stats of your weapon and the natural breakpoints it can reach!
Using the maximum potential of perks and blessings allows me to calculate the full upper potential of the weapon and so gives us something to look out for or grind towards!
@@rykenxiv Thanks for the clarification. I managed to get a new god roll Ironhelm and have been making use of that. 80% dmg, penetration, defense, and first target, 58% on crowd control (378, light attack 142, heavy attack 266) with unmodified perks of 15% sprint efficiency and 25% dmg to unarmored and slapped on Thrust IV thereby locking the Slaughterer III on it. I'm thinking of taking off 15% sprint efficiency for 25% unyielding and this will probably hold me over until I find a better one.
The Crucis I have is 80% dmg, 79% penetration, 78% first target, 69% crowd control (nice) and 55% defense (360) with light dmg of 211, heavy dmg of 265. unmodified perks of 15% block efficiency and +1 stamina. Thrust IV with locked Headtaker III. I'm thinking of taking off the +1 stamina for 25% unyielding or would you replace the block?
Thanks for the reply and for this video.
@@Vulcanerd Definitely replace the Block perk since Stamina is more universally useful and indirectly gives you more "points" to block with anyway!
Nice base stats and blessings on both Hammers!
@@rykenxiv I considered that stamina applies to more things, but wasn’t sure. Thanks again!
how are you fighting bosses and getting mobs to attack you in the training room??
Creature Spawner mod! You get it from Nexus Mods!
Thank You !! May the Beneficent Emperor grant you with many blessings!!@@rykenxiv
HEY! Your video just showed up on the Darktide steam launcher, next to news about updates. Let's hope they will change and improve the game just like you have suggested few weeks ago!
What! Oooh I'll have to check that out! Thanks for letting me know!
@@rykenxiv Judging from your reaction I can tell that they haven't bothered and asked for your permission to use it :D
Hahaha - I thought I had to be a content partner to have my stuff there, but hey - I make things for the community so if its in a place that gets more eyes on my videos as a resource, I don't mind at all in this case!
Unga for the Emperor! Bunga for the Golden Throne!
this has been changed around for what am seening.
I'd be very interested to hear your take on Braced Auto Guns. I feel like a lot of people are stuck on the Agripina BAG just because of the damage. I also feel like a lot of people are sleeping on suppression and valuable it is. `
Braced is amazing. I just don't like it's ammo economy
I've had an ironhelm with slaughterer 4 and headtaker 3 since I think about a week after it released. thing is a true workhorse. slaughterer for hordes, headtaker for chunkier bois, bolter for pesky shooters out of range. but with such a heavy weapons loadout I've taken to pulling out my grenade just to sprint with lol
You run faster witha knife
@@BREAKocean oh yeah bro let me just pull out the knife I definitely have equipped when the comment was specifically about using a thunder hammer and bolter. thanks for the input on a 4 month old comment.
@@burnin8able It was a joke from FPS Doug when he was talking about counter-strike from over 10 years ago
ruclips.net/video/OCBRzB2cMrw/видео.html
which hammer do you prefer?
As of Patch 15 - I like the Crucis more! Ever since they changed up the swing pattern on the Ironhelm it hasn't felt right in my hands...
brother what does violet mean please explain
Varlet!
noun:
1. a man or boy acting as an attendent or servant
2. a dishonest or unprincipled man
You said that the ironhelm 3rd hit (or elite hit) explodes, so does that mean it causes a pushback aoe splash like the mauls?
Also in what situation is the ironhelm worth it? The Crucis can always manage hordes with heavy sweeps and usually you're not charging the hammer to deal with trash / average stuff, only elites or specials, so why not just go Crucis so that when you do want to deal with an elite or special it's a guaranteed 1 hit plus doing more dmg to bosses per charged hit?
I ask because there wasn't really a conclusion section.
The 3rd overhead does tremedous damage and can also cleave, meaning in a horde situation you are very likely to hit and kill the elite in question.
Also no, neither the crucis nor the ironhelm handles horde well - you only do damage to 3 enemies and knock the rest around. Outside of the first enemy the damage is pathetic at best. He even showed this in the video, if you dont believe me.
The ironhelm gives you way more control on what enemy youd want to hit on two accounts: the overhead, which limits the hitbox, and the cleave, which goes through chaffs. In a damnation game, this fact alone elevates the ironhelm above the crucis, because the latter often hits an offscreen chaff due to its wide swing and lack of cleave.
@@sturmmagnunstein1008 I meant more as in, he specifically said the charged attack (powered up) of the ironhelm can pierce 2 enmies, so hit 3, unless it's a elite, before it explodes.
This suggests to me it aoe explodes like the power mauls do, but I haven't seen that, but I haven't palyed much with the ironhelm.
While empowered, the Ironhelm is able to bypass the "detonate-on-first-contact" rule of the Thunderclap, allowing you actually cleave through some (up to 2) regular ads and still maintain the empowered state. If you cleave more than 2 or if the empowered attack comes in contact with an elite after cleaving through 1 ad, then it detonates and deals the Thunderclap - no explosion like the Power Maul or Crusher!
The benefit of the Ironhelm is that is works underpressure better than Crucis! The Crucis deals a heavier Thunderclap but is vulnerable to things like poxwalkers and groaners getting the way of you (GET DOWN MR PRESIDENT!).
In this case, the Ironhelm trades some raw power (25% less heavy thunderclap) for the ability to smack an Elite that's in a horde. The most common scenario for this to happen is dealing with Ragers that are rushing up to you along with Bruisers or Poxwalkers.
This trade-off in damage for flexibility is one of the reason why I like the Ironhelm more than Crucis!
@@Xeonzswe call that cleaving (attacks going through enemy mass) , and when he said explode it meant the attack will use up the charge and cause massive damage - neither TH has any AoE on special impact (honestly they should).
@@rykenxiv I see, thank you this makes a lot of sense, didn't look at it that way, the more forgiving but less damaging weapon essentially.
Tangentially to its intent, this video made me try out the combat shotgun ... no regrets - none at all!
10:52 - I was hoping you mention Thrust as a must, so there is no need for me to intervene and explain why it is. And you did. Nice.
I am a Zealot Preacher main and I agree with everything. Great video. Also I've learned something knew - 13:16 - the flame ticks give Headtaker stacks hahaha this is absolutely ridiculous and should be patched. Oh Fatshark, you goofballs. 🤣
What is your ideal hammer for bosses and for armored carapace. I'm relatively new to zealot
@@BREAKocean
Hammer: Crucis
Refines: +25% damage vs Carapace (obviously) and +25% damage vs Flak (the majority of enemies wear flak armour)
Blessings: Thrust (power on charge time) AND Headtaker (power on hits) OR Slaughterer (power on kills). But my hammer have another 2nd Blessing because I couldn't craft a better one (mine is 79/80, 80/37/80), so Thrust is all you need really (it's +60% power on maximum charges of 3 which is reached in around 2 seconds).
@@Michael.Virtus thank you so much I have like 500k ordo I'll try to get this roll or something close. What ranged weapon do you pair with it? I alternate between flame thrower and revolver depending on party needs
@@BREAKocean Ordo is nothing. You need tons of Diamantine and especially Plasteel. The idea is to buy dozens of hammers from Brunt's Armoury, then Bless them ONCE fishing for good Blessings (tier 3 or 4) which you can earn (dismantle) for later crafting on demand. When you have the needed Blessings (even Thrust tier 3 can one-shot charging Mutants on Damnation but tier 4 is even better obviously). Then start fishing for good Hammer stats AND a proper 1st Blessing so you can add the 2nd yourself (because the 1st is locking and can't be changed). Depending on how much crafting materials you have you might use most of them (or even all if you don't have a lot) for a greatly rolled weapon. But that's what crafting is all about. Then you learn to look in every corner for crafting materials when on mission haha.
@@Michael.Virtus I have about 8k of the crafting materials and have thrust iv on crucis already
it's funny how it's an iconic weapon now when it was extremely niche before Dawn of War.
Its so infuriating that iconic weapons like Thunder Hammer's and Evicerators are outclassed by regular swords, axes and knives.
I suppose you are doing something wrong cause this weapon two-punch gunners,(light/heavy) one-punch shotgunners, two-punch flak ragers, four-punch maniac-ragers, five-punch maulers, one-punch all usual ranged heretics and this melee guys that stay in front of them,(light attacks) two-punch flamers and one-punch dogs, bombers and snipers. And one thunderclap bullwarks and reapers.
Or i am doing something wrong - for me this weapon is about fighting in the middle of horde with crushers, maulers and ragers without any problems cause everything is flying away. Cause of this i use slaughterer and headtaker(t3 cause i am unlucky) and this work nice.(but i have lesser damage to crushers and bosses then you)
*all this about crucis
Before i watch i must declare: TH, no matter which type, need to have cleave on the special attack. Honestly, the sole difference between two should really be mostly down to their moveset. When it comes down to it, damage means nothing if i always run into a mister president moment.
What do you mean by more reliable heavy attacks? The ironhelm has that (the heavy overhead) , plus the cleaves on special. The issue is that with the crucis because of its wide swing and lack of any cleave on special you often hit things that are off screen. Sure, you can always say you and/or your team needs to create the space, but this is a horde shooter, so theres always bound to be more than 1 target on screen, let alone offscreen. How often do you hit things offscreen with the crucis special? I only play on damnation so in my case really damn often. Besides, elites are always targeted first anyway when there is a horde. Why is anyone else expected to help create space for the zealot? And why bother when there are other weapons more capable of sniping elites in a horde? Bolter? Plasma gun? Powersword? And is the TH zealot himself capable of creating say space? Maybe, if he can somehow push every chaff to death before his teammates kill all the elites!
I dont think asking for maybe just 1 extra cleave for the crucis is somehow going to elevate it into godhood. Just look at those mediocre breakpoints outside of the special - they speak for themselves. This is a QoL change, if anything. Considering the crucis is stuck with the horizontal sweep, i think its more than justified.
I was thinking about that... but I fell like it would overlap a lot with the identity of the Crusher (weapon not the mob) to an extent. If anything, what would be useful, though I don't know how easy would it be to program, is when you activate the Thunderclap, it has its own attack pattern (overhead strike for the Crucis - similar to the Ironhelm heavy 3) and the Ironhelm is a cleaving strike. Since it already has its own damage profile anyway I suppose we could map it to specific attack patterns as well?
If the Thunder Hammers need a buff, I think as a regular melee weapon it needs more damage and better blessings that allow you to build into better horde clear at the expense of Problem Solving. This gives us a real choice to make instead of messing with a combination of 3 different blessings which basically all do the same thing
@@rykenxiv crusher and TH have a lot of overlap anyway imo. Not sure why there was really even a need to have the both of them. I will confess i have never used the crusher, since ive never gotten one (actually i dont even think ive seen on in shop), but just on paper they seem to have a little too much in common. If the crusher is like the maul though, its probably more centered on CC? Ive never seen any zealot use it on damnation though.
If the Thunder Hammers are problem solver weapons, the Crusher is a problem delayer. While delaying problems isn't a very good thing to do (this is relevant wisdom for real life too!), it does it incredibly well and is second to none and keeping problem at bay, even on Damnation.
It's the only melee weapon I have tested against 50 Maulers at once (in the Psykhanium on Damnation) where I took them all out without taking a single hit. How long I needed to take out 50 maulers with a Crusher however, is an entirely different story...
I think if they gave the blast damage AoE to the Thunder Hammers (or came up with another mark where it did 50% less Thunderclap but had a small AoE damage ring) that would make the class of weapons more interesting - on top with some buffs of course.
The Crusher could then be an empowered "Storm Mace" where you get buffed up damage but is stronger against armoured enemies specifically (+25% damage + 50% Rending for 6 seconds?)
The Crowd Control potential of the Crusher makes it the best weapon in the game bar none. I don't need to kill things quickly if the party straight up can't get hurt by melee enemies if they stay close enough to me because I CC everything that isn't a monstrosity or mutant. They can kill everything at their leisure, and it's not like I'm taking a crazy amount of time to kill things either.
Like, the day after the Crusher was released I went into a run with friends, with myself and another one both running the crusher. Easiest Damnation run of the entire game. I made the observation out loud at the time that I could feel myself getting worse at the game the more I played it, because spamming the special is so powerful it makes it so you don't have to do any kind of melee dance. I've only used it a handful of times since then because it's so outright broken.
I will outright say that anyone who thinks the Crusher needs to be buffed is wrong and probably using it wrong. If it needs anything, it needs a rework to make it more engaging to play with by making it less good at infinite CC specials.
PLEEASSE do the ogryn grenade box soon, i would hope this isnt too hard to do!!
Grenade box? As in the literal grenade box and not the grenadier gauntlet?
Grenade box😎
You got it.
As someone who played a lot of Vermintide 2 and greatly enjoyed the great hammer, I will happily continue using the thunder hammer. Knocking around enemies is nothing new
If only we could get Swift Slaying in Darktide :(
@@channingtaintum at least Zealot gets some degree of AS. I main Ogryn, feels terrible to melee with him especially after I've played Rat game.
@@VinnyB77 That's very true. I wish they would raise or simply remove the hard-cap on damaged targets per swing with the clubs. It makes no sense when an eight-foot-tall hulk built like a brick shithouse swings a giant pipe the size of a human leg and it only kills three poxwalkers.
@@channingtaintum yet man sized Kruber can swing through 3x that on rat men
Damn your brightness is so high lol I'm used to DARKtide
The thought of a big fuck-off hammer being absolutely terrible at cleaving through shoulder to shoulder clumps of enemies sounds wrong... It's like a rapier getting swung around like an Ultra GreatSword.
The dog from 12:20 beat Elon Musk to Mars.
0:25 missed opportunity for a joke: "or 2 headaches sice there are 2 hammers" :D
My zealot (her name is Natasha) has 30(+80) lvl and after all my attempts to get a decent thunder hammer from crafting and Melk i still dont have even ONE th with "Thrust" not even the blessing itself in a blessing collection...
I have 3 completely different Eviscerators tho. Nat loves them :3
Oof.. That's rough on the RNG... I'm still trying to build my ideal Eviscerator!
@@rykenxiv oh i might make a perfect one yesterday!
I had crafted full crit one before with _+10 crit damage_ and _+4 crit chance_ as well as _Perfect strike_ and _Shred IV_ (all that just from lvl it up from grey lol) but _Perfect strike_ is meh so yesterday i got _Wrath IV_ and re-bless it. Now it is 543 ps weapon of mass destruction :D
I have "classic" comp Eviscerator w _Savage sweep III_ and _Rampage IV_ to compare and while does "not stuck" in hordes as much it lacks of raw damage to deal vs groups of elites. Even tho it has _+25 vs mutant_ locked perk i could roll the other one only for 1 category of enemies while consistent crits is good vs all.
In conclusion i think *THE best Eviscerator* would be:
high base w lower penetration and mobility is order to other stats be higher
_+crit chance_
_+crit damage_
_Shred IV_
_Wrath III-IV_ or _Savage Sweep III-IV_
And ofcourse it couples with full crit feats build but the important note is: u cant use standart "push > heavy sweep" combo cuz it brakes the "chain" of attacks and _Shred_ wipes. So instead you need so use "heavy sweep > light attack" combo as base. But there is more techs to it.
You can implement special attack in combo without wiping _Shred_ stacks if u activate it right before heavy sweep . So vs tough targets combo will do like this "special activate > heavy sweep > heavy attack > special activate > heavy sweep". You can put special activate anywhere in a chain in fact but using it before heavy sweep make Eviscerator stop and do the sawing only when its hits bulky target and ignore lesser ones.
*All of this means you can clear hordes with heavy sweep and sawing the tough target inside it in the same time without losing Shred stacks*
P.S. Also i have Eviscerator with _Rev it up IV_ + _Bloodletter IV_ and good base. You must yell "For the memes!" when charging with it :D
I just can't make this weapon work for me on Heresy and higher. I will try to use this guide and farm it for optimal blessings, but damn... I perform well better on heresy and damnation with Evis or Crusher
In terms of general gameplay, I find the Eviscerator more flexible and can be used to deal with most situations (especially if I want to dive into a shooter pack). But while the Hammers do fall short in some areas, there's nothing like having the reassurance of being able to take on Monsters and Demonhost if need be!
yes so i love th but everybody come to the same conclusion it should have more horde cleave even if the distribution fall off fast after the 3 initial...
Pog
throughout all of this vid I kept thinking... revolver would be great
;)
Desperately needs buffs. Before installing mods I didn't realize you only had 2 dodges with this thing. No wonder I felt so immobile... Attack speed is too low, and it needs brutal momentum. The mere fact that I can chop through several dudes with an axe but I can't slam entire crowds out of the way with the *hammer* is absurd.
Monstrosities in darktide are extremely weak and easily countered though, compared to vt2 bosses. That kinda diminishes the entire validity of thunderhammers, making them a very mediocre weapon overall. Using them is like using a heavily nerfed weapon, lol.
For the Crucis Thunderhammer.
Try slaughterer and headtaker instead of thrust if you want to make it deal with crowds better. stack it with the feat that makes your attacks unstoppable and the feat that adds more damage on hit and you can just heavy swing straight through hordes. Get 5 kills (which will obviously gives you also the headtaker blessing and feat active) and you can one-shot a deamonhost up to T4.
It takes some set up but if you're fighting a monstrosity without it having any allies your pretty much going to win anyways unless you get knocked off the map. If you're doubting this think to yourself when was the last time you lost a run only to a single monstrosity? For me if I ever lose to one its because gunners or specials killed me and my team while the monstrosity pushed us out of cover. If you run both you get to use those ads for fuel to take more than half any monstrosity's hp off in one hit. But eitherway the thunder hammer's a monster against monstrosities so I think it works better to try to cover your weaknesses and Thrust feels counter intuitive to heavy attack spam/ dodge in hordes.
Fair points by you on all accounts, however, the goal of the build was to Problem Solve as fast as possible - the guaranteed power from Thrust is what makes it appealing against Monsters (with or without pleb ads around). Generally, a lone monster is not a problem for anyone who know how to dance with them (they are pushovers in almost all my Damnation games).
What does become a problem is when we are taking too long because the Monster has spawned in an inopportune moment or at the same time as the Special spawn timer refreshes. Suddenly, that 36k HP meat bag needs to go down as fast as possible because if it targets the wrong person (your vet or your psyker who are suppose to deal with specials or the horde), then the run is about to get a little more rough!
The power boost from your pairing makes dealing with shooter packs a good deal easier since you'll be killing at least 1 shooter per swing, but with hordes, the cleave limit of the Hammer still makes it struggle no matter how much power you stack (against a horde, you'll need just enough power so that you can kill at least 1 poxwalker per heavy swing)
I’m just confused as to how the hell he went 3rd person
Perspectives mod!
How do I get my brightness better without making the game unplayable in bright areas in the game. I’m on console and there is no gamma option. I can’t see what I’m shooting at
Damn, this video just proved how unusable for me it is, a goddamn combat axe is better for a zealot, or a heavy sword, the axe can take down armored targets at least
Trying to use a Thunder Hammer like a Brutual Momentum Axe or a Heavy Sword will only lead to disappointment!
I've learned through my play-testing that when I'm using a Thunder Hammer, I'm not the "first-one-in" person anymore - I'm big gun the team takes out when a Crusher or Mauler patrol is aggro'd. I'm the reassurance for the team that if a Monster appears, they have the confidence knowing that I can bring the Hammer down on them - especially if a demonhost gets pissed off.
If I released the full gameplay of the background footage, you'll notice me staying back most of the time, and providing supporting fire with my Vraks III instead of rushing into melee every opportunity I get like I would with a Heavy Sword or Axe.
Not staying the Thunder Hammers are fine as is - they could use buff here and there, but for what it is designed to accomplish, I think its at least good in that area!
@@rykenxivI hear ya, and I do understand the purpose of the hammers but they are just not versatile or clutch friendly for me.
Used to be a knife/flamer zealot before all the nerfs and was really happy about the clutch ability of the combo, knife for specials and closing in the gaps, flamer for the hordes, plus could melt carapace and rangers with Chastise. Took a break for several months and it doesn't work as great anymore so had to look for new versatile combos.
After going through a few weapons I stopped at brutal momentum combat axe which turned out to be good at clearing hordes and killing armor, played with braced autogun and later with shredder pistol for other things, again, braced is good for killing carapace with Chastise, can switch it out for bolter but I prefer being able to whip out a gun fast so the melee/ranged flow is seamless.
Thunder hammer, eviscerator are too niche and require certain playstyle which I'm not a fan of, clutch potential is kinda low too, I want to play with these weapons but they feel unwieldy and underpowered so I prefer going with versatility.
By the end of the day you should have fun playing the game and your vid just proved that I'm not going to be having fun with hammers, although I should admit, one shot on a muttie is a power trip.
I swear you sound singaporean
Not quite ;)