Could Viserys Targaryen have won the Iron Throne?? ASOIAF Discussion and Theories!!

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  • Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024

Комментарии • 21

  • @sozinscomet1316
    @sozinscomet1316 11 месяцев назад +3

    I think there is a possibility for Viserys even with the fAegon plot line let's say:
    Oh boy, it's more text than I'm willing to read. I don't know at which moment I wrote that much...
    At the start everything goes according to the theory, Daenerys hatches the three dragon eggs and comes back to Pentos after Drogo's death with part of her Khalissar and Viserys gets Viserion.
    Then Varys shows up with fAegon to Viserys and Daenerys.
    Viserys had already bounded with Viserion and Dany with Drogon, they could use the metaphor of "3 heads of the dragon" to convince them, Dany would be glad to have another "family member" who survived but she would wait for Visery's approval, after all, he is her king.
    Viserys may be a little more suspicious about it, but this "Aegon" shows up out of nowhere with an army, in a city controlled by Ilyrio, the one who might be whispering in his ear to accept joining forces with him...
    He sees the reality, he is surrounded, Drogon and Viserion aren't big enough to help them escape and if he doesn't play along they are going to kill them and place this "Aegon" on the throne, so, Viserys with no other option decides to give him a go with the condition of making him his heir if something happens to him.
    With this Ilyrio might put the idea of giving Rhaegal to fAegon in Dany's mind, after all the dragon was named in honor of his father, and she has already given one of her dragons to Viserys "The dragon has three heads" he said to convince her.
    But fAegon isn't a true Targaryen, he isn't worthy, and Rhaegal refuses him... Viserys looks at this as a red flag, after all this fAegon could be a child born from any pleasure house of Lys, or another of the free cities with enough Valyrian, appearance to make him look like a Targaryen, Viserys won't let that usurper take his right to the throne, but he can't do anything yet, not when he is at his strongest and with Ilyrio and Varys around, he will have to wait until they arrive in Westeros.
    Since time is crucial Varys would leave to talk with the Tyrells, they want Margaery to be the Queen, and he has an unmarried King, also, the political climate is switching earlier, and this may move Doran a little bit earlier, sending Arianne to Pentos
    to meet with Viserys.
    The moment Viserys knows about the arrangement he insists on shipping to Dorne (out of the influence of Ilyrio and the fAegon sympathizers) as fast as possible, Daenerys sides with Viserys and they almost make him accept until Ilyrio interferes by telling them they should wait Varys to report about the possible Alliance with the Tyrells and getting him more mercenaries companies, only for Arianne to interfere in favor of her future husband by saying that if they Tyrells see the might of their future King they would have more motives accept the proposal and if Ilyrio is as loyal as he says to House Targaryen he could send those mercenaries to Westeros as soon as possible as reinforcements.
    In the end, fAegon decides to ship to Dorne, but Ilyrio writes at once to Varys to tell him that something is going on with Viserys and that he must be in Dorne when they arrive, with this news Varys speed up everything into getting the Tyrells onboard with them.
    But Ilyrio wasn't the only one sending messages to Westeros, Arianne as a good daughter would send word to his father about the rumors and theories that Viserys told her about fAegon with some note of how "the future king" is unable to bond with a dragon even getting burned in the process, such as the Iron Throne cuts the unworthy kings that dares to sit it. It would be even more suspicious because both Viserys and Daenerys have already done it, with this information, Doran would have time to prepare himself, if this was true, then this impostor wasn't the son of Elia and was taking away the possibility of Arianne becoming the Queen.
    Once they arrive in Dorne they are welcomed by both Martell and Tyrell families and armies, alongside Olenna, there is Varys, after the welcoming there would be a double wedding, fAegon with Margaery and Viserys with Arianne, with these alliances they would get both armies and they would storm the rest of Westeros by surprise.
    Stannis: Takes Kingslanding, captures and executes Joffrey, Cersei, and Tyrion, if Sansa survives she is now a hostage of Stannis but would still be a Lannister.
    Tywin: Gets back to Kingslanding and siege it, the capital was already starving long before Stannis arrived, which would play in his favor.
    Robb: Fighting the rest of the Lannister forces in the Westerlands, if he dares to try to capture the rock he would most likely fail, but, with Tywin gone it would be the perfect time to march North against the Greyjoys without losing land, maybe the Red Wedding is already planned or not.
    Stannis wouldn't leave his throne and Tywin wouldn't stop the siege since Stannis killed two of his sons and his grandson, so they are locking each other.
    With possibly Sansa in Stannis' hands, Catelyn would try to make Robb renounce his crown and swear fielty to Stannis, if she makes it work Robb would march to Kingslanding to break the siege possibly killing Tywin and the Red Wedding never happens.
    If he doesn't then Robb is stopped by the Twins and probably gets killed at the Red Wedding, with this the Boltons and the Freys march south the help Tywin at the siege and take back the capital killing Stannis.
    Or if Robb somehow passes the Twins would be busily fighting the Greyjoys with the Northern men trying to take back Moat Callin and the rest of the North from the Ironborn.
    Meanwhile, all of this is happening with Stannis locked in Kingslanding the Targaryen would be conquering the Stormlands with ease.
    But not everything would be sunshine and rainbows between the Targaryen forces... The King can't manage to bond with his dragon, which may start doubts about him, not only as a Targaryen, but as a King, it would be worse after the take of Storms End, which Viserys would make sure to be the protagonist.
    Plots in both ways would be flying, trying to kill Viseys and fAegon, but no one would speak of it openly, Arianne is ambitious and expert in poisons as would be expected of a Dornish niece of the Red Viper, and Varys would use every spy possible to stop these plots, and Olenna would be backing him as Doran would be helping her daughter.
    But here is where our chaos bringer Littlefinger gets in, with the last undamaged army riding south of the Bloodgates to swear fidelity to the Targaryens, Varys isn't happy with it, he has worked so hard for this to let his old rival ruin it, but he can't do anything because it would push him into suporting Viserys.
    Littlefinger would turn into an advisor to Viserys as Varys is to fAegon and tensions would increase then more sellswords companies arrive to back fAegon, but Doran has already looked into this and takes advantage of her alliance with Norvos to counter Pentos and would bring to Westeros other companies as the company that Oberyn founded during his time in Essos.
    Varys and Olenna want to wait until fAegon takes the throne to fight Viserys, but Baelish and Arianne don't, because if the rest of Westeros sees fAegon as their King it's more likely to get back up from other houses.
    At some point Littlefinger, Arianne, and Doran would attempt poisoning fAegon, if it works, then Viserys would be King and the Tyrells would be angry, but then Viserys offers "The mother of Dragons" to them since fAegon couldn't claim Rhaegal, Dany has 2 dragons, which is almost as huge as the throne itself, but it wouldn't be politically smart to give her to Willas, Garlan would be the best choice, because if Olenna and Varys try to push Daenerys claim, they would have to fight for Garlan's claim to Highgarden as well, which wouldn't be ideal for house Tyrell. A second son would be perfect to sit at the smart council, to keep him in Kinglandding as a hostage if needed and as a second son he would be "suggested" to let his hypothetical children with Daenerys take the Targaryen name, letting the Tyrrels without any possibility of claiming dragons nor the Iron Throne.
    If the plot was discovered then war would be: A second dance with dragons but fAegon wouldn't have any, Daenerys would join Viserys for sure, then is highly unlikely for the fAegon supporters to win, also Viserys wouldn't be as friendly to the Tyrells if they dare to use their armies against him, maybe Littlefinger could turn Randyll Tarly and a few more against their liege lord to favor Viserys.
    Even if the Tyrells have bigger numbers with the Golden Company, any other Company that Ilyrio may have brought from Essos, and even some of Pentos, they couldn't stand a chance against 3 young dragons, Dorne, the Vale, Norvos, and the companies that Doran may have also brought.
    After the Civil War Viserys alongside Dorne, the Vale, and whatever is left of the Reach and mercenaries march against the rest of his enemies, it would be an easy win, and it doesn't even matter if they face the Lannister-Frey-Bolton or Baratheon-Stark alliances, they would be too damaged to fight a bigger army with better supplies, in better conditions, and two dragon riders, It would only be a matter of time before Viserys bring peace and prosperity to Westeros.
    In the end, the once mocked by his enemies as the "Beggar King" now was King Viserys of House Targaryen the Third of His Name, King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms Protector of the Realm, the man who restored House Targaryen to its rightful place in the Iron Throne and brought back the dragons to Westeros, his enemies weren't expecting the awakening of a real dragon: Wolves, krakens, lions, stags are now history, everyone else who dares to defy him shall only find Fire and Blood.
    This timeline is just messed up and much of this wouldn't chronologically work with the books, but hey it was a fun run.

  • @ivanbluecool
    @ivanbluecool 11 месяцев назад +5

    While he was his own worst enemy they did set him up to die with how jorah acts as dany was cool with it.
    His only way to the throne would have been to somehow be alive long enough to claim a dragon and join forces with the dorish marriage giving them an army to them combine with aegon and the dorthraki.
    Basically he'd need everyone to so everything for him. But he'd need to humble himself which would have been impossible as his story is basically joffey going from riches to rags

  • @Chickclick
    @Chickclick 11 месяцев назад +4

    Viserys would have been a Joffrey type of king. Low self-esteem and needs outside validation/adoration. He would have been petty and mercurial.

  • @luminousignesia372
    @luminousignesia372 11 месяцев назад +2

    Yeah honestly the only way it works is if he becomes more subtle with his ignorance and cruelty but if he pulls that off then he might have been a really good distraction for young Griff to sweep in and take the crown

  • @ianwhite3979
    @ianwhite3979 11 месяцев назад +3

    Unrelated, but I have my own theory about hatching dragon eggs in asoif. It can only be targaryen women who can successfully hatch eggs in general. As long as they have the blood of the dragon as well as their own she-dragon, they automatically produce clutches, like Syrax and Dreamfyre and their female riders. After the dance, it was only the Targaryen men who tried to reawaken dragons, which is why it failed every time. The closest person I'd say to actually doing it was prob Ageon the Unlikely (Who prob tried to sacrifice Rhallea or the newborn Rhaegar). But it was made unsuccessful due to the brave actions of Ser Duncan, who saved them mid ritual. And obviously, Dany finally got it right by leading the blood ritual herself. Just a cool headcanon.

    • @ianwhite3979
      @ianwhite3979 11 месяцев назад +1

      Also amazing vid

    • @TheGreaseGoblins
      @TheGreaseGoblins  11 месяцев назад

      Thank you! Also love your ideas for the dragons coming back!

  • @Lukew204evans
    @Lukew204evans 11 месяцев назад +1

    I think you underplayed young griffs (aegons) role in this scenario. If he is a blackfyre he would be able to bring the golden company with him. If the illyrio and varys camp go with him being rhaegars son he would get dorne involved oberyn would jump at the opportunity that his nephew was alive plus its three marriage alliances that can be made. Martells,tyrells and maby the north. The only obstacle i can see is how viserys would react to him we know he idolised rhaegar so he could name him his heir it would also give danny a companion as there the same age and danny would probably prefer him to viserys as he seems like a decent kid plus he would bring jon con with him and he may be able to gound viserys as he would probably have met him in the past.

    • @TheGreaseGoblins
      @TheGreaseGoblins  11 месяцев назад +1

      the issue with Young Griff is that Viserys can not and would not stomach Young Griff being a thing if he is elia's he is the true heir not viserys. If he is a balckfyre he is a enemy to Viserys either way for this what if to work Young Griff can't be apart of it

    • @Lukew204evans
      @Lukew204evans 11 месяцев назад

      @TheGreaseGoblins would be an interesting dynamic I'd say danny would support young griff over viserys maby a second dance between aegon/danny vs viserys. I personally think drogo was in on the young griff plot just the way he treats viserys he knows there's someone better out there.

    • @cliffordrose4335
      @cliffordrose4335 11 месяцев назад

      I have a wildcard 🃏 projection for later in the books 📚 that Prince 🤴 Aegon Targaryen VI could be challenged to a duel of legitimacy if you will by Ser Gerold Dayne who would wash the streak of midnight black dye from his Silver-White hair to reveal his true identity as 👑 Viserys III after he leads the Anti-Martell Dornish nobels in a successful coup of Sunspear while welding the legendary 🗡️ "Dawn". He has been masquerading as the Knight of High Hermitage for years under the false promise of Targaryen restoration from his childhood constructive custodian ~ Prince 🤴 Doran who would always have an excuse as to why they needed to wait for the right time but not yet

  • @mar7898
    @mar7898 11 месяцев назад +1

    Eric's black undershirt suits you best 👍🏻

  • @luminousignesia372
    @luminousignesia372 11 месяцев назад +1

    Idk if Dany still gets her dragons tho that's something that came about because of everything building up perfectly to it but there is definitely a lot that you would need to have viserys win this😂

  • @aegorbittersteel2154
    @aegorbittersteel2154 11 месяцев назад +4

    I do feel bad for The Begger King don't think it would've worked for him Aegon "Targaryen " tho way more likely and hopefully

  • @sgauden02
    @sgauden02 11 месяцев назад +1

    Had Viserys actually taken the Iron Throne, he probably would've been just like Joffrey.

    • @cliffordrose4335
      @cliffordrose4335 11 месяцев назад

      The entitled personality of Prince Joffery makes me think of how full of himself and cruel the Darkstar is . . . if the 8.5 year old boy 👑 crowned on Dragonstone after the sack of King's Landing by 👑 Rhaella Targaryen had developed naturally over the years into the 26.5 year old Knight of High Hermitage we met in FEAST then I can see the evolution. Princess Arianne says he "Has cruel eyes and an even crueler tongue". She also astutely asserts that "Our children together would be as beautiful as the dragonlords". Too much circumstantial evidence for me to dismiss. The Darkstar doesn't have a birth year but oddly enough a birth radius and we have no idea who gave birth to him or where he was born . . . why couldn't he be the fully grown former boy 👑 Viserys III from Dragonstone Castle 🏰 all grown up 17 years after Robert's Rebellion?!?

  • @realdaggerman105
    @realdaggerman105 11 месяцев назад +2

    I mean, he was supposed to. Or at least supposed to get to Westeros with an army. Him not doing that was a failure of the fAegon factions plan. But Jorah provoked him and his ego did the rest.

  • @Blake84838
    @Blake84838 11 месяцев назад +2

    To be totally honest it really reads like Dany is dissociating when viserys gets crowned. The situation is beyond horrible from her perspective and there’s basically nothing she could’ve done to save viserys the moment he drew his steel. Absolutely no Dothraki would ever follow Drogo if he allowed him to live after that outburst. Drogo had no choice if he allowed viserys to walk he’d be mocked in his culture for the rest of his life

    • @Blake84838
      @Blake84838 11 месяцев назад

      Her dreams in Dance seems to hint at a sense of guilt / remorse at his death as insane as that seems from a outside perspective from hers he was her only family / primary guardian

  • @cliffordrose4335
    @cliffordrose4335 11 месяцев назад +1

    I'm 75% sure that we met the genuine authentic Viserys III in FEAST masquerading as Ser Gerold Dayne in yet another false identity of GRRM. The (f)Viserys III we met in GAME was the Dragonstone royal decoy recruited by Targaryen loyalists at the command of her Grace ~ 👑 Rhaella Targaryen after the sack of King's Landing and the horrific slaughter of her beloved Targaryen grandbabies ~ Princess Rhaenys & Prince Aegon in a monstrous betrayal by landed knights from the House of Lady Johanna Lannister 😮 . . . former Lady-in-waiting to the teenage Princess of Dragonstone ~ Rhaella Targaryen.

  • @richardfitzpatrick9732
    @richardfitzpatrick9732 3 месяца назад

    As ned said million dothraki is no threat too the realm ships Stannis would sink them before they reach the Crownland Robert Ned Jon Arryn Stannis Barristen selmy Jamie Lannister they would destroy Viserys