Fishman Rare Earth Humbucking and L.R. Baggs M1a Acoustic Guitar Pickups
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- Опубликовано: 7 мар 2012
- Jake Kelly performs a side by side comparison of the Fishman Rare Earth Humbucking Acoustic Guitar Pickup and the L.R. Baggs M1a Acoustic Guitar Pickup
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Always great to see Kevin Costner on his guitar
One of the best tests I have ever seen! Maybe THE best. Thank You so much!
One of the best, most objective and well organised pickup demo's I've seen. Excellent playing throughout. Good job.
your video made a sale for the rare earth ordered one yesterday, a friend I jam with often has the M1 active.. this video showed me exactly what they would sound like together. Thank you
Thank you so much Jake! Great comparison and vid. I'm just looking for a pickup, so, right on time!
Excellent comparison, Jake. Thanks for making the effort. Now that Baggs has come out with the M80 model, it would be interesting to hear a comparison between that and the M1.
Hey Dan,
Thanks. The guitar is a Gibson Southerner Jumbo and mine was made in 1990 or so, so it has 23 years and plenty of miles of it. Gibson had about 3 or 4 versions of it.
plus, there are various other guitars with the same woods and dimensions, most notably the j-45, but also the j-35. they just re-issued the j-35 , and it looks great. or course, sound varies from guitar to guitar, which is why i favor buying one that you try out over trying to buy online.
cheers!
The LR Baggs seems to scoop the middle frequencies a bit compared to the Fishman, so the end result would depend a lot on the guitar being used and what it needs to sound good
@JDandKC
thanks! i will be at namm to get a first look at the m80. i did a review for the anthem for american songwriter magazine already. there is an error in my video production as i did not close the dialog mic for the demo segments (sorry about that), however the intro and outro audio are the anthem with no external mic. search baggs anthem american songwriter jake kelly
Good demo, really good playing. You are a very skilled player.
thanks for the nice demo, very helpful, luv it
The correct position for both pickups is at the end of the fingerboard, if you please.
Good review Jake, thank you!. I'm a guitar and a "cuban tres" player, so.. I choose the L.R Baggs because it help me to get the identity of the sound and tone that I'm looking for.
Excellent comparison, thank you very much!
@sirpazuzu
I have done the pickups one at a time: the difference in the position is minimal, if noticeable at all. The reason i did the comparison this way was to switch examples as quickly as possible with cutting between video takes.
with the volume control on both pickup full up, the Fishman did had less output than the M1a. However, being a humbucker with an active pre-amp, I wouldn't call the Rare Earth low output.
@sergrito
i'm slightly confused, but if you're talking about a solidbody guitar, there's a few different ways to go. i don't think either of these pickups will work, btw.
however, both baggs and fishman make electric guitar bridges that have piezo pickups in them for just the purpose you're looking for. If you're looking for a magnetic pickup that can give you acoustic sounds on an electric guitar, check out shadow's nanomag (sh nmg-ep) epiphone uses this on their les paul ultra.
4:42 - 5:22 ... Bob Dylan "Don't think twice, it's allright" beautyfully played!!
Thanks for this review!
Get a lr Baggs M1a and plug your guitar in a AER.
I've bought one (M1a) partly thanks to this great vid and I am not disappointed at all, it sounds great and the most natural that you can get with any soundhole pick up (and I've listened to many of those)
are you Kevin Costner? :P
LOL
But doesn't the pickup's position on the soundhole affect the tone? On a strat, you flip between three pickups to get drastically different tones depending on their position on the length of the strings. What does the rare earth sound like on the neck side of the soundhole?
You have a really nice strumming technique. No innuendos intended for all the warped types out there. Thinking of getting the Fishman Rare Earth Humbucking pickup, I personally would place it by the neck for a brighter tone. Going into a Takamine TAN46C + cool tube pickup and phosphor bronze strings 12-53. I hope the combination will be heavenly!
mrbsred1 Be sure to demo it when you get the pickup in and we'll link it from here. Cheers.
Typically you get a brighter tone at the bridge. That's a pretty solid fact. Maybe that's what you meant, not at the neck?
Excellent demo. Thanks. The Baggs sounds much better to me, but I wonder how much of that is due to the fact that the Baggs is installed in the proper position while the Fishman is installed in the bottom half of the soundhole.
+Ed Goist
A lot I would think. The only true comparison would obviously be if each pickup were installed in the same position. You can hear crisper overtones in the Fishman because it is closer to the bridge.
The Baggs blows the Fishman out of the water, never knew there was that much difference. Thanks for the video bud.
Impressive video! Keep up the great work :-)
@bluesintheblood
This all was recorded direct into the recorder with the eq set flat (no guitar or acoustic amp was used, though i did have the studio monitors on). the gain was adjusted so both pickups would sound with the same volume.
Hi, I like your vid. I am wondering how feedback resistant the M1a is in general as it is a little more microphonic? I would use it with a large acoustic amp or a PA. Or even a regular guitar amp with an additional EQ(sometimes).
I have the baggs and it sounds amazing for my use. Very clear, you can jazz manouche on it. When strumming it's a bit "stringy". The only issue I have is that it's crazy microphonic. You cant touch it with the pick or even the guitar next to the pickup.
Would like to compare the 2 pickups with the Baggs nearer the bridge and the fishman near the neck, or both in seperate tests near the neck...
@tacostequilabeer AWESOME! I've been looking at some of the Fishman pickups, and your demo is really helping me make up my mind. Thanks for the info!
very cool! At the intro to this demo, are you playing "Come On, Come On" by Cheap Trick???
Also.... I hear a slight tonal difference - how much do you think this has to do with the 2 different types of pickups versus one being positioned closer to the fingerboard edge than the other? Have you tried swapping the positions or doing them one at a time?
I'd heard that the output of the Fishman is very noise-free but a bit low output...what's your experience with this?
Because both systems pick up the sound of the strings, rather than the body; both will sound different according to where they're fitted. Usually there's more depth at the bridge & more treble at the neck, so you'd need to set both pickups in the same position to gain a fair comparison.
Excellent comparison.
Please tell me the year and model of your Gibson.
Thank you!
Even thought the Baggs is in the right position, it sounds tinny to me. I'm shopping for a pickup and will most likely go with the Fishman.
Excellent demo. thanks
Thank you for this comparison!
I loved the sound of my Baggs M1a but the output was ridiculously low. I thought it wouldn't be the case since it was the active (battery powered) model but it really needed an outboard preamp to boost the level.
Strange. It's got a build in volume wheel. Are you sure you raised the volume at the pickup? Mine has plenty of output.
I read a couple comments about the pickups being in different positions. They both amplify the sound of the guitar....as long has he picks in the same place the difference is pickup placement would be very minimal.
i wish you did a video. where both pick ups are installed in the same place and you edit out the video in the end.
so we the viewers can have a proper comparison.
obviously the baggs sounds better, warmer and more Crisp near the neck like example on an electric guitar..etc and the fish-man it self is a great pick up too.
i've been looking around in youtube but everybody seems to compare the pickups the same way that you did.
i just wish Fish-man got the Credit they're suppose to be getting
but great effort your video helps to get an idea of how the pick ups sound.
Thanks!
Interestingly enough, even though the microphonic element of the pickup is on the high end of the guitar's spectrum there is no squeal that you might get using an actual microphone. However, depending on the guitar, the positioning, the volume of the amp, etc. you may experience some of the lower 100 to 300 hz feedback equal to or less than a typical piezo w/ preamp equipped guitar.
Baggs new M-80 pickup, which I haven't tried, uses the microphonic elements full range.
best,
jake
Hi Jake , good demo, but i cant find the Fishman Aura you mention , is it you doing the aura demo?.
Thanks for the video. Rare Earth Blend ( with mic) sounds much better than M1 passive. I checked it out today in my friend's house
Hello there,
this test is unfortunately not in good condition, because both Fishman and Baggs are not placed in the same place. It is normal that the Fishman sounds with more presence, more attack since the sound is picked up closer to the bridge of the guitar. (think 3 pickups electric guitar is the same logic) For a good comparison must microphones are at the same place! Come on, please, Jake are you doing this again!
Patrick Butler
to you Patrick and to Duplenne, be fair here ,.None of these pickups reproduce the tone of the good or bad guitar, they are magnetic pickups with active EQ simulating and presetting the natural sound of an Acoustic guitar,. and by the way this is the better system of demoing any pickup where we only hear the actual pickup straight to camera via desk with flat EQ and no reverb or effects ,. and ok the pickups are not in the same position to compare directly but if you know what you want you can get a pretty good idea the difference in pickups ,.
все правильно.Имею М1а очень влияет растояние до порожка.
the battery life for the rare earth is suppose to be more than 200 hours, which actually is a pretty lengthy time...something like playing 24 hours a day for 10 days straight. but, yes, you'll want to carry a spare battery with you. the jack, btw, has a switch, so when the guitar is unplugged there's no drain.
as far as which pickup you choose, i go for sound first, but i like active and a volume control...so there's that.
Great version of Georgia Jake!!
Very useful.Thank you.
Jake, thanks for this great demo! It's really helpful for me right now, as I'm trying to decide between the passive versions of these two pickups (the Fishman Neo-D02 or the Baggs M1). I think I prefer the tone of the Fishman in your demo, it sounds like a well amplified acoustic to me, while the Baggs makes the guitar sound like a hollow-bodied electric. I'd love to hear both through a good pre-amp, and I'd love to hear the Fishman mounted in the correct position. Again, great demo! Thanks.
@bluesintheblood
I recorded these this way for the truest representation on the flat, un-effected sound of the pickups for comparison. However, with some eq, compression and a touch of reverb, very pleasing, recordable results are possible.
I believe that the fingers do play a large role in the sound and articulation in the playing: a fine guitarist can bring out the most of even the cheapest instruments. But, I also believe in great gear that provides tone that inspires the guitarist play...and sometimes even play in ways they never imagined the could.
It is interesting to play other people's rigs, especially the rigs of people you admire: their tone kinda makes you play more like how they do.
anyway...thanks!
Great Video....Lr Baggs just killed it IMHO.
Nice review mate, thanks.
great vido. thanks, it helps alot
whats your take on that?
Hi there. Verry intresting demonstration! Is the LR Baggs active model or just normal one? Thank's!
What make guitar is that Jake? - looks and sounds lovely!
Thanks Jake !
Don't fail to realize that even though both pickups were EQ-ed flat, different pickups have different feels. Even two pickups of the same make can differ slightly. With that being said, It is much more important to focus on the breath of the pickups rather than the Lows, HIghs, and Mids at a static setting.
is that a zoom 1266 114 in the back ground? which is the most natural esp the lower notes that has more string noise?
Good job Jake. Thx
Did you solder to an end point jack. If so then how did you do it?
Hi buddy, great straight forward test. Is it a fishman rare earth blend pickup your using? Both sound quite natural, which of the two do you think captures a more natural all round sound? Tim, London.
Hello Tim. Yeah, I thought both pickups sounded good, too. The Fishman was the Rare Earth Humbucker. I wanted the comparison to be between the two most similar models. Cheers! Jake
How do you actually install those and keep them in position?
does the lr baggs m1 passive have a volume control?actually where i stay the lr baggs m1 passive and the rare earth are of the same price
how can you compare them when they're in different positions?
awesome player man ...hybrid ..looks tough ...cheers
hey please reply i have two options fishman rare earth and lr baggs m1 passive which one to opt for...actually i have heard that the fishman's battery does nt last long
that is Georgia on My Mind. It is a standard that has been done by Willie Nelson and Ray Charles famously, among others.
Is it right to compare 2 mics in 2 different positions?
They both sounded good to me. I think the test was fine. No, it wasn't perfect because they weren't in the "exact" location on the guitar. For purists, that is a problem. I don't think you were trying to be scientific so the test is valid. Both sound nice. ALL sound tests, (pickups, Guitars, Amps, Audio Interfaces, Plugins, et al) are subjective. Thanks for taking the time to do the test and give us a sample of the potential sounds we can get. The fact that not many of us (if any) have the same guitar you do, the sound I get out of the pickups will be different because of the instrument I use.
I've had both and kept the Baggs on my guitar. Happier with it. Fishman always sounded too muddy to me.
I agree
Yes, that is a MRS 1608. While it has built-in effects, none was used in the making of this video, and all the EQ was set flat.
very helpful video, thank you
Do you have to drill holes in the guitar to install? That would break my heart, and there are no damn installation tutorials on youtube.
can you get pickups for an acoustic bass?
btw does the lr baggs m1 passive has a volume control?
Hey…thanks for the demo, but I have to tell you, your comparison is skewed by the pickups being in such different positions between the end of the fingerboard and the saddle. You might not think it makes much difference, but guitar designers have spent huge amounts of time experimenting with pickup placement and the different harmonic content picked up from the strings in that space…moving placement a 16th of an inch at a time, or even less, and taking readings. The string movement on your guitar as it approaches the bridge grows smaller and smaller, generating less sound overall, as well as thinner harmonic content.
So, for me at least, this was an accurate demonstration only of the Baggs pickup, which sounded fantastic. Well…fantastic guitar. Cee
Wont those sound different due to their positioning under the strings?
For me I prefer LR Baggs, sound more natural and with more body.
Thanks !
Me too
@@Arcturian1111 Me too!!!
Thank u!
Thank you.
I don't know how many other folks have mentioned it, (I haven't gone back through all of the comments, but did see at least one mention) but putting the two pickups in two completely different positions for a "side by side" comparison seems a bit misleading. You will definitely get a different overall tone in the two positions. Not complaining, mind you, just making an observation. Jake, you have some great finger picking skills. I really enjoyed hearing you play. If I understood some of the other reviews correctly, the Baggs does have adjustable pole peices, which might be a big plus for some players. I have the FIshman and have thoroughly loved it for years. i think both pick ups are great...it just depends on which tone you prefer.
How is the Music called, he Plays at 3:00 ?? Really great playing. Would like to know because it's really chilling :)
Hello Marco,
That song is called "Georgia on My Mind" and that style of playing is called chord/melody guitar. there's some lessons on you tube for that style of guitar, just do a search on "chord melody guitar"
also check out johnny smith, he was the master of that style.
cheers!
Thanks a lot! You are great ;)
is the neo-d humbucker just a passive version of the rare earth?
the Baggs does sound a tad more acoustically authentic than the Rare Earth - but only by a bit. If you pay attention to it closely, the M1A sounds a bit more airy and woody. Awesome review and comparison. My only misgiving is that the unfavorable position of the Fishman pickup might have taken away its full tonal potential. That could account for the lack of brilliance in the tone. Having said that, it means it could sound better than what had been heard in this review.
THanks, very helpful. I like the Baggs better, it has more of a complete sound.
They both sound good...I find the Fishman to sound more "natural" -- But the Baggs M1a is active and the Fishman is passive, is that right? Nice playing BTW
Thank you, Michael. Both of these are active. I like them both, too, and see (hear) virtue of both. Jake
Hi ! I've seen you have a vintage Gibson. Why did you choose the magnetic instead of the piezo pick up ?
Hello Elena,
The Gibson in this video actually isn't vintage, it was made in 1992...which is 25 years ago, but still not a Gibson from the 40's which it was designed to look like.
At a couple of points did have a piezo pickup installed under the saddle, but the slot for the saddle is too shallow for a pickup and the bridge to sit properly: The end result being there was not enough pressure on the pickup for it to work properly.
Also, the vintage style saddle used on this guitar is different than most guitars today. The saddle is longer, as is the slot, with the ends exposed, which meant getting creative in shaping the bottom of the saddle which presented headache of its own.
This is why I was, or am, excited about these newer generation of magnetic pickups that have more "acoustic qualities" to them. On this guitar, it eliminated the saddle dilemma. They also don't have the piezo quack which can also be a problem.
That being said, I have two other Gibson guitars, a WM-45 and a J-180 that both have piezo under saddle pickups that both function well and I'm happy with using live. The J-180 has a LR Baggs Element. The WM-45 has a Fishman, I believe it is a early version of their Matrix pickup.
I'll also add that I'm a fan of the Fishman Aura Spectrum preamp DI. The Aura Spectrum uses "imaging" (perhaps their trade name or way to market modeling to acoustic purists) to make piezo pickups sound more natural. This unit allows you to dial in the amount effected sound to the inputted signal, and I have found the results to be very pleasing.
And then I'll add to that, that I have used the guitars without that pre-amp and haven't been unhappy with the results.
If I had more time, I'd give the long answer. Ha!
jake kelly thank you very much for your answer
Yes, I think so too
the Baggs seems to pick up more of the guitars true sound not just the strings, would that make feed back at higher volume though?
Oddly, no. Or at least not in the way that a microphone would try to achieve that same high-end clarity - the screeching/ear piercing feedback. As with amplifying any acoustic instrument, there is the potential of the body feeding back. The irony of the situation is the same qualities that makes an acoustic loud and responsive (acoustically) makes it more prone to feeding back when it is amplified. Both of these pickups excel at resisting feedback.
Cool, I am really having Peizo issues at the moment, lol. I get a good sound out of my rig, but I have really played around with it to fix the Quack, but when I play out through some other desks it sounds terrible. I notice other guys sounding crap through them too. My LP tone is never a problem. Damn Rock Sound guys who dont care about acoustic tone. But that is the Peizo problem I guess, At least with the Baggs, it should sound good regardless of where you plug in, in theory...
Yes, taming the quack is an necessity of life. If running directly into a board, a passive pickup could have an impedance miss-match...which could sound terrible. Running into a pre-amp first should solve the impedance issue.
Luckily most Piezo systems have a pre-amp installed internally in the guitar.
Using a DI (direct input, also called a direct box) can address this issue, too. Passive guitar systems (guitars without battery-powered pre-amps) like active (powered) direct boxes.
Conversely, I have found that guitars with active electronics like passive direct boxes: why run through more circuitry than you need to?
One of the best "quack busters" around is the Fishman Aura Spectrum. They use what they call imaging (it's not unlike modeling) to transform your guitar's pickup to sound like a mic'd guitar. Check it out. It's not cheap, but functions as a DI and a pre-amp. I love the way it sounds live.
The worst Quacking seems to happen through their D.I's. lol. I think they are going for the "nirvana unplugged" sound and not something tastefull , It is the long way around to get a "natural" sound. with cables D.I, imaging, on and on...but you do what you have to. The thing I like about acoustic guitar other than tone is the pick up and play element. You dont need a pedal board to get a good sound. Just you, instrument and a porch. Then transfer that to the Audience. Organic. Thats why I like the Look of the Baggs I guess
Thanks for the review> PERIOD
I agree it is not equal comparing the two pickups mounted on two different points of the soundhole. The BAggs will probably sound more natural than the Fishman anyway - the latter being more "compressed" and impacting, but much more artificial. Anyway, provided that, both of them sound poor and articificial (as every pickup will do), and that the BAggs costs the double, I would go for Fishman... if I had to go for a pickup !
Great job!
Looks like Kevin Costner. :)
wow, kevin cosner sure can play!
Yeah he can! Check out his band Modern West. ;)
I think the Rare Earth, keeps the acoustic guitar sound, much better then the Baggs.
Fishman sounded a little more like an electric guitar. The Baggs was a little rounder but still sounded quite like an electric or semi acoustic guitar.
Both pickups are very good, they're just different
Blow my mind in my head and in my brain hellll yaaaaa
I think the "rare-earth" has a fuller bass to mid sound, which I personally like. the baggs seems to favor the mid to upper freq sounds. rare earth wins.
I thoughts the different
The Baggs sounds like it has a lot more presence in the high end, something I like, but the Fishman sounds more authentic to a direct-mic'ed guitar. With neither having any reverb, it's a lot harder for me to tell which I'd prefer in use. I have the rare-earth, but this almost makes me want to lay out the money for the Baggs.
I realize this comment is 5 years old, but I was thinking the same thing about the rare earth pickup.
What's the name of the song that starts at 2:48?
sound difference is mostly due to difference in position I think.
dude... what was the point of doing the pick tapping with the vocal mic on? 1:43 Also, sounds like you have a volume discrepancy between the two.
Great job, sir! Thank you! :)