Moates Quarterhorse user here. Learned a ton at eectuning.org. Tweaking the tune to fix all the little things really makes you start to appreciate what factory calibration engineers do to make new cars start, run, and drive like they do in all conditions.
Pro-M ! Not the cheapest option, but with my setup all I did was enter my injector data and MAF curve and the car has been running perfect. I have not had to touch the fuel table or the spark table, and when I add my Vortech supercharger this winter, I still will not have to touch the tables. Mass air and load based is it's secret, there is a reason why OEMs use mass air, it adapts to changes much easier. And on top of that, the Pro-M now includes nitrous control, Meth injection control, traction control, flex fuel sensing (automatically adjust spark table to your fuel), Boost control, transmission control and more, so you do get a lot for your money. Next in line I like the Holley Terminator X.
@@sav22rem22 Perfect, that is the most improved area once I went with the Pro-M. But from what i have seen you can get that same quality of control with the Terminator X
I bought a microsquirt about a year ago, never installed, because someone told me I don't have to use it for a basically stock 302. From what you said, I need to go ahead and install it, and start tuning.
It's definitely rewarding tuning your own car, But damn it'll make you pull your hair out sometimes.. lol Thanks for the shoutout brother. Let jason know i'm more than willing to help if i can.
Just did full edlebrock rpm top end with trick tfs stage 2 cam. Big maf and 30lb injectors, on a fresh 306 . 17 degrees timing and base idle reset makes the car a dream to drive, and it rips! But I wonder if there's more on the table... no tune that im aware of but I had an f cam when I purchased it. Every thing else was bone stock. 89 maf car.
I’m just getting started with my micro squirt but if he’s having trouble with the wideband, have him locate the ground near the ground for the ECU. Also ensure the values are correct in the AFR table settings for that specific o2 sensor. Lastly, ensure the location of the o2 sensor is correct (where the bung is - I’m using the stock location). I had a major issue with the o2 and the microsquirt not syncing and couldn’t figure out why. It turned out that my catted h-pipes were causing the o2 sensor to get bad readings. I couldn’t autotune or do anything really since the values were WAY off. As soon as I swapped to an off road h-pipe the car runs perfectly and I can auto tune as well. The last thing I would suggest is finding a good base tune that he can download. There are a few out there but I used one from DIYAUTOTUNE (I think) and it got me really close as opposed to what came burned on the MS from the factory. Once he overcomes the o2 sensor readings it’s easy peasy lemon squeezy! @brew2l put out some good vids also along with @houseofdula. Don’t be afraid to reference other types of vehicles/videos that use the MS (miatas etc.) as the software is identical. Just my .02, hope that helps!
Hey boss , not thinking wide band is off it’s reading same as squirt is , but now you got me thinking lol wide and is on driver stock bung but I don’t have ground to pcm have it in body , you think it mite still need to be moved over ?
If it’s reading correctly you should be fine. (IMO) I grounded mine to the inside of the kick panel right next to the pcm but some guys ground to the negative terminal on the battery. To me, if it’s not broke don’t fix it! From what I saw in the vid, you were running really rich at times (11.5ish). I would check the fuel tables and the AFR target settings to lean things up a bit.
Get that battery into the rear Bro! It won't handle worth a dump until you get it back there! My road course Mustang needed it bad and after I did it, it was like night and day!!
I'm still running my A9L. The guy I go has the ability to live-tune. He has been tuning since the early 90s and probably forgotten more than most of us know.
I’ve used megasquirt on a few cars including a 94 5.0 twin turbo. The learning curve is a bit steep when it comes to getting it perfect, but to fire it up etc it’s not bad at all really. I’m surprised at how high the prices have gone. I bought an MS2 setup for under $400. Micro squirt is the same thing in just a smaller package
Nice Fox.. I use Moates Quarter Horse. In the beginning it was hard to learn. With the help of the tuning message boards got the car running smoothed.. Next project 408...
I learned that you need to connect your wideband sensor ground to the sensor ground harness wire on the microsquirt or megasquirt. That helped my afr stable out a lot
I had to turn the ego control authority down to 5% for it to stop swinging wildly. Also you target afr will need to be played with to see what your combo wants. My idle is at 14 and cruising likes 13.5. Any higher for me makes it run a little hot. Also while auto tuning fuel table you can control how big the cells change with ego controls under the fuel tab. When tuning mine is set to 10 but when not I turn it down to 5% and the “surging” while cruising stops. Hope you get it soon!👍
Definitely want to see more of this build, (just ordered a Blueprint 306(370hp) for my 91 GT and also have a 90 LX 5.0 thinking of 351 build (have a 96 f-250 351 complete of course gonna build it) wanting to be able to drive them on streets regularly
I'm glad someone finally covered this. OBD 1 is 1980's technology and there are way better systems now. People cling to this stock stuff like its fine and its really not. I'm going Holley in my Calypso hatch and never looking back. Stop throwing good money at bad. I know I'll hear some clown saying that his 1990 stock ECM is better than the space shuttle's computer, whatever. I'm glad Holley has put some good useable products out there. Keep the pushrod videos coming.
Saying any system is “better” than another as a blanket statement seems a little rigid. The stock pcm can drivability that is leaps and bounds ahead of Holley. For basically any heads/cam/intake 5.0, the cost vs. benefits is just not there with Holley... that is, if you have a functioning stock efi setup already. If you have nothing and need to buy computer, harness, etc. then Holley is a fantastic option.
I had my pcm rebuilt a few years ago from a guy on EBay. My timing wouldn't advance & caused bad running. From what I remember, it wasn't too expensive either.
Man that thing is clean and love the wheel setup! Yeah, so many options out there now and just like the computers are fading, the harnesses have seen their better days too. It is amazing what you can do with the newer systems though
I’m old school I guess I tune my car with an Anderson Ford pms version 4. It’s so easy to use and you can store up to 3 tunes on. If it goes out I’ll go terminator x. I think I’ve done pretty well with it I have a N/A 347 that runs high 10’s rowing gears. AFR at idle is around 14.5:1 cruising its 13-14 and WOT its 12.2 to 12.5. I could lean it out some and make more power but I’d rather play it safe.
I was having theft issues with my 01 GT because it's an auto with to much gear change = 4:10 = I had a guy write a program to upload that kills the theft system as when it actives the car go's dead no matter what your doing as FORD did not think that one out to good as going dead at 65 mph is not fun .
I have that AM plug and play tune... they redid it for me once... it's ok, but I assume it's a "safe tune" they send out based on the mods you tell them you have. Not ideal, just a cheap way to try and get the car to run a little more "normal"... on another note, I need a sticker like he's got on his windshield... the one I got a few years ago from you deteriorated a while back lol
@@LeechMotorsports dss 306, afr 165s, holley systemax with a 80mm TB. 1.75" bbk long tubes, fti custom cam. The pcm is basically "open" with that tunner. There are acronyms for shit u just have no idea. Shit that shouldn't be touched. Basically like flipping open an encyclopedia and going "oh wow oh wow words word words words, where is the shit I want to look up". I spent most of my time building MAF curves and in timing tables. Car went great. Bested 11.63@116. I had good fun with that set up.
Well I will admit the learning curve is steep, but the capabilities are absolutely there. I’ve actually been developing a simplified strategy for gufb tuning with a quarterhorse with fewer parameters to mess with and descriptions that actually help you decide HOW to adjust things.
@@LeechMotorsports shit brother that sounds awesome. My 306 popped in 2015 but I never got rid of anything. I'd love to rebuild it someday and see how deep I could take that combo.
The stock fox computer was way ahead of its time. It's capable of supporting 1000hp if you have the right tuner. Moates quarter horse chip and and a tuner and you're good. Brian at Dyno tune motorsports in Columbus OH is a pro at tuning the moates chip on the stock fox pcm. There is a gentleman on RUclips that's a bad ass with the stock pcm and a chip....name is Leech Motorsports I think. You can always log your data and email it to him and he can tune it. I paid $500 for moates chip and Brian in Columbus OH tuned it on the spot and installed the moates chip. 2-3 hrs with my car he had my EFI coast high performance street fighter 408w package putting down around 460hp 455trq to rear on pump 93. That's with small 185 AFR heads. Very good street manners. Fun car.
We can take care of you on that. However, I’d recommend using a quarterhorse so we can provide rapid tune revisions AND get data logs. Chips like SCT and moates F3V2 can’t data log. Chip burning is only a good solution if you have the tune dialed in.
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I use a quarterhorse and EEC analyzer/Binary Editor to tune mine and buddie's cars, works pretty good for what we're doing.
Pro M EFI systems is really a plug and play----I've used it, installed it myself, and works right out of the box.
Moates Quarterhorse user here. Learned a ton at eectuning.org. Tweaking the tune to fix all the little things really makes you start to appreciate what factory calibration engineers do to make new cars start, run, and drive like they do in all conditions.
100% agree. And if you hit any road blocks, hit us up at Leech Motorsports on Facebook. Happy to help out.
Pro-M ! Not the cheapest option, but with my setup all I did was enter my injector data and MAF curve and the car has been running perfect. I have not had to touch the fuel table or the spark table, and when I add my Vortech supercharger this winter, I still will not have to touch the tables. Mass air and load based is it's secret, there is a reason why OEMs use mass air, it adapts to changes much easier. And on top of that, the Pro-M now includes nitrous control, Meth injection control, traction control, flex fuel sensing (automatically adjust spark table to your fuel), Boost control, transmission control and more, so you do get a lot for your money.
Next in line I like the Holley Terminator X.
How is your cold starts and idles with the pro m?
@@sav22rem22 Perfect, that is the most improved area once I went with the Pro-M. But from what i have seen you can get that same quality of control with the Terminator X
I bought a microsquirt about a year ago, never installed, because someone told me I don't have to use it for a basically stock 302. From what you said, I need to go ahead and install it, and start tuning.
It's definitely rewarding tuning your own car, But damn it'll make you pull your hair out sometimes.. lol Thanks for the shoutout brother. Let jason know i'm more than willing to help if i can.
Holley terminator x installed mine about a 3 months ago and ive loved it i even learned to tune the car myself because their software is so easy.
Just did full edlebrock rpm top end with trick tfs stage 2 cam. Big maf and 30lb injectors, on a fresh 306 . 17 degrees timing and base idle reset makes the car a dream to drive, and it rips! But I wonder if there's more on the table... no tune that im aware of but I had an f cam when I purchased it. Every thing else was bone stock. 89 maf car.
I’m just getting started with my micro squirt but if he’s having trouble with the wideband, have him locate the ground near the ground for the ECU. Also ensure the values are correct in the AFR table settings for that specific o2 sensor. Lastly, ensure the location of the o2 sensor is correct (where the bung is - I’m using the stock location). I had a major issue with the o2 and the microsquirt not syncing and couldn’t figure out why. It turned out that my catted h-pipes were causing the o2 sensor to get bad readings. I couldn’t autotune or do anything really since the values were WAY off. As soon as I swapped to an off road h-pipe the car runs perfectly and I can auto tune as well. The last thing I would suggest is finding a good base tune that he can download. There are a few out there but I used one from DIYAUTOTUNE (I think) and it got me really close as opposed to what came burned on the MS from the factory. Once he overcomes the o2 sensor readings it’s easy peasy lemon squeezy! @brew2l put out some good vids also along with @houseofdula. Don’t be afraid to reference other types of vehicles/videos that use the MS (miatas etc.) as the software is identical. Just my .02, hope that helps!
Hey boss , not thinking wide band is off it’s reading same as squirt is , but now you got me thinking lol wide and is on driver stock bung but I don’t have ground to pcm have it in body , you think it mite still need to be moved over ?
If it’s reading correctly you should be fine. (IMO) I grounded mine to the inside of the kick panel right next to the pcm but some guys ground to the negative terminal on the battery. To me, if it’s not broke don’t fix it! From what I saw in the vid, you were running really rich at times (11.5ish). I would check the fuel tables and the AFR target settings to lean things up a bit.
Holley terminator x fox kit!!! for the money not a question IMO
@E.K. Farrow Daily bought it and installed it in my fox over a weekend. Best investment ever and for the money you definitely can't beat it.
Mine will be here tomorrow. Then its time to install the twisted wedge top end kit.
Its on the lift now getting bilstein's and h&r race springs
After seeing this car gonna keep my LX stock look
Love this black lx so clean!!
PIMPxs here. Converted over to coil on plug with it. One of the best modes I have done.
Same here on my 351W fox
Get that battery into the rear Bro! It won't handle worth a dump until you get it back there! My road course Mustang needed it bad and after I did it, it was like night and day!!
That car is super clean man it looks good
I'm still running my A9L.
The guy I go has the ability to live-tune.
He has been tuning since the early 90s and probably forgotten more than most of us know.
Got the Holley Terminator X on my 331 build. Best investment I’ve made on the car thus far
I’ve used megasquirt on a few cars including a 94 5.0 twin turbo. The learning curve is a bit steep when it comes to getting it perfect, but to fire it up etc it’s not bad at all really. I’m surprised at how high the prices have gone. I bought an MS2 setup for under $400. Micro squirt is the same thing in just a smaller package
Nice Fox.. I use Moates Quarter Horse. In the beginning it was hard to learn. With the help of the tuning message boards got the car running smoothed.. Next project 408...
I learned that you need to connect your wideband sensor ground to the sensor ground harness wire on the microsquirt or megasquirt. That helped my afr stable out a lot
What you think ? A Lx 88 4 cilinder to make it a v8 is hard? I’m just think in a project .
I had to turn the ego control authority down to 5% for it to stop swinging wildly. Also you target afr will need to be played with to see what your combo wants. My idle is at 14 and cruising likes 13.5. Any higher for me makes it run a little hot. Also while auto tuning fuel table you can control how big the cells change with ego controls under the fuel tab. When tuning mine is set to 10 but when not I turn it down to 5% and the “surging” while cruising stops. Hope you get it soon!👍
What’s the ego control under ?
Nvm found it mine was set at 10
Bang for the buck is definitely the moates.net quarterhorse. There's a steep learning curve with it but once you figure it out it's not bad.
Have i been waiting for something like this for a long long time. This is and will be the next best thing aside from the coyote motors !
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Such a beautiful car I don’t think I would change anything about it
Great video Caleb, I agree proper tuning is key.
The Quarterhorse still has a pretty decent following. Binary Editor is actually a relatively friendly software to use.
what do you think of the pro m ECU!
Definitely want to see more of this build, (just ordered a Blueprint 306(370hp) for my 91 GT and also have a 90 LX 5.0 thinking of 351 build (have a 96 f-250 351 complete of course gonna build it) wanting to be able to drive them on streets regularly
I'm glad someone finally covered this. OBD 1 is 1980's technology and there are way better systems now. People cling to this stock stuff like its fine and its really not. I'm going Holley in my Calypso hatch and never looking back. Stop throwing good money at bad. I know I'll hear some clown saying that his 1990 stock ECM is better than the space shuttle's computer, whatever. I'm glad Holley has put some good useable products out there. Keep the pushrod videos coming.
It is if your car is stock
Saying any system is “better” than another as a blanket statement seems a little rigid. The stock pcm can drivability that is leaps and bounds ahead of Holley. For basically any heads/cam/intake 5.0, the cost vs. benefits is just not there with Holley... that is, if you have a functioning stock efi setup already. If you have nothing and need to buy computer, harness, etc. then Holley is a fantastic option.
I had my pcm rebuilt a few years ago from a guy on EBay. My timing wouldn't advance & caused bad running. From what I remember, it wasn't too expensive either.
Man that thing is clean and love the wheel setup! Yeah, so many options out there now and just like the computers are fading, the harnesses have seen their better days too. It is amazing what you can do with the newer systems though
I'm going Terminator X with mine when I have to do a major overhaul. For now, speed density, DA1 system, FTW 😂
I’m old school I guess I tune my car with an Anderson Ford pms version 4. It’s so easy to use and you can store up to 3 tunes on. If it goes out I’ll go terminator x. I think I’ve done pretty well with it I have a N/A 347 that runs high 10’s rowing gears. AFR at idle is around 14.5:1 cruising its 13-14 and WOT its 12.2 to 12.5. I could lean it out some and make more power but I’d rather play it safe.
Neomustangs has a good tuner (Dave) at TI dyno that does a lot with the factory computer.
I used a speed brain back in the late 90s worked well, I don't think they are around any longer
I have a 1987 McLaren mustang convertible gt it does circles when I press the gas pedal all the way down
Putting in a Holley terminator X .
I was having theft issues with my 01 GT because it's an auto with to much gear change = 4:10 = I had a guy write a program to upload that kills the theft system as when it actives the car go's dead no matter what your doing as FORD did not think that one out to good as going dead at 65 mph is not fun .
Damn bird had me thinking it was outside at my house. 🤨😆
I thought the same thing, so i paused the video and the Blue Jay was gone
Dammit that car's got good oil pressure 😂
Holley HP or Dominator depending on the needs.
What is the different between a regular 5.0 compared to the cobra 5.0
The cobra engine has a different Intake, cam, has 1.7 roller rockers, a couple other things and like 50 more hp lol
I have that AM plug and play tune... they redid it for me once... it's ok, but I assume it's a "safe tune" they send out based on the mods you tell them you have. Not ideal, just a cheap way to try and get the car to run a little more "normal"... on another note, I need a sticker like he's got on his windshield... the one I got a few years ago from you deteriorated a while back lol
Man that car is nice! I love the wheels and can't wait to hear it whistle. I think if I started tuning I would never have it alone. Lol!
I was using Moats quarter horse when I was running my hci 306. Tuning eccIV kinda just sucks ass
What issues did you have with it and what was the combo?
@@LeechMotorsports dss 306, afr 165s, holley systemax with a 80mm TB. 1.75" bbk long tubes, fti custom cam. The pcm is basically "open" with that tunner. There are acronyms for shit u just have no idea. Shit that shouldn't be touched. Basically like flipping open an encyclopedia and going "oh wow oh wow words word words words, where is the shit I want to look up". I spent most of my time building MAF curves and in timing tables. Car went great. Bested 11.63@116. I had good fun with that set up.
Well I will admit the learning curve is steep, but the capabilities are absolutely there. I’ve actually been developing a simplified strategy for gufb tuning with a quarterhorse with fewer parameters to mess with and descriptions that actually help you decide HOW to adjust things.
@@LeechMotorsports shit brother that sounds awesome. My 306 popped in 2015 but I never got rid of anything. I'd love to rebuild it someday and see how deep I could take that combo.
The stock fox computer was way ahead of its time. It's capable of supporting 1000hp if you have the right tuner. Moates quarter horse chip and and a tuner and you're good. Brian at Dyno tune motorsports in Columbus OH is a pro at tuning the moates chip on the stock fox pcm. There is a gentleman on RUclips that's a bad ass with the stock pcm and a chip....name is Leech Motorsports I think. You can always log your data and email it to him and he can tune it. I paid $500 for moates chip and Brian in Columbus OH tuned it on the spot and installed the moates chip. 2-3 hrs with my car he had my EFI coast high performance street fighter 408w package putting down around 460hp 455trq to rear on pump 93. That's with small 185 AFR heads. Very good street manners. Fun car.
Who around still burns chips?
We can take care of you on that. However, I’d recommend using a quarterhorse so we can provide rapid tune revisions AND get data logs. Chips like SCT and moates F3V2 can’t data log. Chip burning is only a good solution if you have the tune dialed in.
Does anyone have a recommendation for someone to tune my 89 in Wisconsin or Minnesota ? Thanks Rich
Hey my Brother..my name is Frank from NYC...i love your channel...donyou have any videos on installing a 6al msd with a Retard setup??...thanks Frank
Where’s the s197 coyote swap!!!
Good video, I need to get my 89 mustang tuned. Anyone know of a good tunner around Harrisburg PA ?
Willy at dirty dirty racing in Virginia. He does remote and dyno tuning
We can provide remote tuning on Holley or stock computer. Track us down on Facebook and send us a message.
In tune auto works is a good place
Great pushrod content! Get back to basics.
Stop being cheap lol!! Great video S always
I got tired of fighting it just through a carb on it