Is the Deltatraveler Geno really that bad?
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- Опубликовано: 10 май 2024
- The Deltatraveler genocide route is often discussed,today we're looking at its praise and criticism to see if it deserves the hate
Footage video: • DELTATRAVELER v3 *Geno...
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Yknow, something curious is how susie and noelle sometimes waste turns by not wanting to attack during the ness and paula fight, just like how in earthbound, enemies sometimes perform a meaningless action that's essentially wasting their turn
It's as they say: DON'T KILL THE CHILDREN.
But now, you must kill the children.
They were forced to kill CHILDREN. Before that they killed animals and a cult. After killing ness it makes sense that they skip turns sometimes. They need a moment to fix themselves and finish this fight their forced to do.
Hes attacking FIRST
19:15 I've played through Earthbound once and currently doing a rerun to see what I missed and
When you first meet Paula, she tells Ness that she is happy that he came to help her, and she had a dream that Ness was her "destiny". In the original Japanese, she says she would have cried if Ness didn't come.
Both sides parents refer to Ness and Paula as Boyfriend and Girlfriend
and at the end of the game when you take all of the characters back home, when Ness drops Paula off at her house, Paula thanks Ness for escorting her home, and then says there was something she was going to tell him, but she forgot. She says she'll probably remember it the next time they see each other. She appears to stall a bit by saying multiple forms of goodbye, and pauses in front of the door, some say that Paula was going to say that she loved Ness, but, eh, take it how you will.
Either way I think the Deltatraveler genocide route is great.
fnf reference
N-ness i...i....
AM SANS UNDERWATER TALE LOOK INTO MY EYES!!!
We all think that bc the song that plays while Ness is walking with Paula is called "Because I love you" or smh like that
the original genocide route was supposed to be a secret route, being able to fuck it up by not killing everyone before napstablook seems pretty reasonable ngl
The issue is more that it's a mandatory fight that you skip entirely if you haven't met the requirements, with no indication of its existence. That's... questionable game design at best, especially since it doesn't have the excuse of "secret route", with it being a fangame and also warning you about the route's existence right away. It doesn't help that the fight itself exists for the pure shock value of being able to actually kill Blooky.
@@Missingno_Minerfor the record that warning the route exists was added after chapter one since it was needed for the trigger warning for chapter 2. In the original demo it was a very secret route.
@@finnvaneekelen4966 It... really isn't. It's expected of a UTDR fangame. The creators went into this knowing perfectly well that people would actively seek it out.
@@Missingno_Mineryeah but why not make it as annoying to do as possible tho
@@aykarain Because that's bad game design, and not an enjoyable experience for the player.
Going over the Lesser dog section, I get that Susie just letting you kill a helpless dog is kinda dumb.
But if you think of it in a narrative sense, if we the player are dead set on killing everything narratively, we would be so determined to kill that dog that we would stand there for eternity, just to get a chance, which would completely lock the story in place, which in my opinion, would not only be a boring story, but it would also be boring gameplay-wise.
I think a way to slightly remedy it while still having Susie & Noelle let Kris back is to extend the number of times you need to hit the textbox wall before they give in, easiest way to do this is add a few "..." in to make it seem like they're trying to think on what to do, or they're still trying to deny you but having no idea what to say.
For the Sans part, it's a bit trickier, I can see that the normal ending for the Sans battle is a bit too gory & edgy for some, but I can't really think of a way to remedy it.
I can also see how making only Kris fighting Sans would make sense, but you have to remember that Sans killed Suzy in GG!Underfell, and Susie isn't very resistant to the idea of resorting to violence against a dangerous foe (I.e. Susie during the battle with King in Deltarune C1 when trying to use the talk option, as well as Susie throughout most of chapter 1).
I get that this Susie is the slightly softer Susie from the end of chapter 2, but that doesn't excuse the fact that the day before C2 takes place, she would throw a punch at anyone she saw as dangerous without hesitation, and probably still would, people don't fully change within a day, it takes time.
Not only that, hearing that a version of yourself was murdered in this world, especially if they're younger than you, would probably mess with your emotions, so it makes sense that Susie would be especially violent towards this version of Sans.
Now, going back in time to the fight against Ness & Paula as well as Paula alone, I get that some of the attacks are a bit lame, such as making 2 attacks happen at the same time instead of more team-based attacks in the first phase, and some attacks just being similar to Asriel's attacks.
Personally, I don't mind the Asriel references, but I can see how it & the combining 2 random attacks can seem lazy, but it's not always going to be perfect.
Improvements may come later down the line, but you need to remember that this is a long game that requires lots of time and effort to make, & they might not always have the time to make things more interesting, and sometimes, things might just slip people's minds at the time.
You just have to remember that everyone isn't perfect, and you can still appreciate something even if it has shortcomings, you don't necessarily have to like a game for its story, you could enjoy it for its gameplay or attacks, or even just the environmental & character design, I know for sure that I like the gameplay, I just like to mindlessly grind, & for me, Deltatraveler makes grinding/searching for enemies more engaging & less tedious, which Undertale does not, something to remember, just because something would make sense in a narrative way, doesn't mean that it would work very well if translated to gameplay poorly, same the other way around.
I remember that Sarah (RynoGG) even said that she had gotten kinda lazy during section 3, so I'm sure that improvements will come later down the line.
Sorry for writing an entire 4 paragraph essay in the comments, I just felt the need to talk about this in great detail.
That's the best comment i've ever seen. Someone full of wisdom on internet ! Couldn't believe my eyes
I think having Susie and Noelle stop you at section 3/8 would be kinda lame. Though I'm sure they'll cook something up on section 5 when we get to see Chara.
One small comment to add: after the Sans fight in one of the routes, Susie says something along the lines of “[I can’t forgive someone who’d] threaten to throw you off a roof”, despite how Sans never actually did that specifically. This clearly alludes to the fact that Susie isn’t just lashing out to a threat, she’s projecting some traumatic memory onto him.
I have a way around this, have you have to try to go back 20 times, but give hints that they will let you back at 7, 10, and 15 while having them stop talking at 5
7: gives a noise
10: shows the portraits change while being noticeable
15: have their portraits change again with another noise
But if they mess up the Mario and Luigi section the consequences will be severe.
I wanna see bendy
or cuphead
Like, Deltatraveler take games, that toby likes(then why underfell here? Ok, don't mind), and made Undertale and Deltarune by them(like Earthbound). If that so, RynoGG would do Touhou Project section?
@@Xenodrad5301 RynoGG didn't post the list of games already?
@@Ccbt_ only on next section
I know its edgy and like a lot of geno aus, but this did not change how fun it was, and trying it on mobile is fun and difficult, but not too difficult
one thing you cannot say about deltatraveler is that it has bad gameplay. the boss fights, the gimmicks, the refrences, n all that stuff was amazing. only thing it lacks to me are puzzles but everything else completely makes up for it
and ofc below this reply there will be a reply saying that "deltatraveler has the worst gameplay in any fangame", and to that i say, S H U T
that "deltatraveler has the worst gameplay in any fangame" , and to that i say, S H U T
@@wix-1-3dgcjt6Checkmate
The gameplay makes playing deltatraveler worth it
Oh Crap, didn't even notice I have this many likes, thats cool
Curious what Toby would think of this game
There are a lot of studies done on Undertale's genocide route, and two major findings are the intentionally bad game design and the way each section reflects each of the five stages of grief (denial, bargaining, anger, depression and acceptance respectively)
And yeah I'd say there are quite a few mistakes in the Deltatraveler obliteration route. One of the most glaring ones is how they spontaneously don't care once you abort the route at any point in the Underfell section, and it's patched up pretty poorly because it's not the main focus
Deltatraveler has a lot of clever ideas though
Personally I think you just shouldnt be able to abort a genocide route equivalent unless the creator is prepared to make it make sense.
Huh, never heard of the Geno Route = Stages of Grief thing. Tell me more, I'm interested
@@AmberTheSeal From what I remember, I saw it in a comment somewhere, probably in a video about the brilliance of the genocide route. Forgot the rest though. Basically, the Ruins are about denial since there's no indication that you're on track until near the end, Snowdin is about bargaining because the game is trying to show you what you're missing out on when you skip the sections with fun and puzzles, Waterfall is about anger as Undyne refuses to die and gives you a very hard time, Hotland is about depression because you're made to grind for boring and unchallenging encounters for a very long time and New Home is about acceptance, with the game acknowledging that you are going to see it through to the end and realising that all it can do is try to overpower your determination until you get to the end, and the world is doomed at that point
@@FireyDeath4 I figured, but thanks for clarifying it. It's a pretty interesting analysis and just gives me another reason to love the Genocide route beyond the 2 bossfights that are the only thing people care about. I love Papyrus calling the player a "FREAKING WEIRDO!" that was funny
Ok. But one thing to say half of base undertale geno is also leaving and re entering rooms
Walking Simulator 2016
9/10ths*
Technically not even that; everyone just does that now because we found out that leaving and re-entering rooms resets the step counter so you can encounter enemies faster.
@@bababooey5402 yeah. But I’ve always done that since 2018 what you mean recently I just noticed how enemy’s spawned faster
I think the epitome of the worst of the grinding is just how _big_ Peaceful Rest Valley is. You have to walk back and forth through that entire massive room multiple times just to track each fight down to beat them again.
Meanwhile with base UT, you can just walk in place at the entrance of the room and do other things while you wait for them to spawn.
I like the addition of Kris's Deceitful status and Susie's Devious status in this route, but... 3 things:
1) The conversation the Deltatraveler trio had in the bunny house should have enabled both statuses right there, instead of Susie becoming devious only after a specific set of choices.
2) While Susie can defy what actions the player wants her to do, she doesn't do that a whole lot. All those regular enemy battles that occured after the fight against Ness and Palua, she could have backed out of dealing harm to them. (GG!Underfell Sans absolutely deserved to get teamed on, though.)
2a) Noelle can also try to defy the act of violence after , but well... PROCEED. Still, though.
3) The Decietful status' effect is lazy. It just adds the option to use Red Buster on a few more enemies, but any use of it will kill the entire trio (or almost in the Sans fight). I can think of a few ways to expand the severity of this status, like:
* Randomly swapping the actions of fighting or fleeing for Kris.
* Aiming to attack the enemies as Kris can sometime be wildly different (sliding bar moving from LEFT to right instead of right to left, random pausing, sliding very fast, etc).
Stuff like that to make attacking hell, but Kris will still be able to hurt the enemies.
Susie's Devious status could also be improved or expanded:
* If both Kris and Susie are attacking, Susie can sometime CLASH her weapon with theirs, nullifying their attacks all together.
* If Susie is defending while Kris is attacking, she can sometime defend the enemies and take the hits.
Bunch of improvements can be done with these statuses.
Devious susie could also have affect the section events and not being only a battle gimmick. Like:
-kris is about to fall down a cliff but the fall is survivable, so susie lets them fall, then you'd need to climb back up, encountering enemies that you were supposed to fight for the oblit. route anyways but you do it alone now cus of devious susie
paula's fight reminds people that Megalovania is originary (first version) a part of Earthbound hack.
Yeah, and the Megalovania used in her fight is not from smash, it's a remix of the Earthbound version.
@@sheogorath6834its supposed to be a smash remix
@@thisnameisbad3609 It's a smash remix of the Megalovania from the Halloween hack, yes.
@@sheogorath6834 mario smash actually inspired Sans and put him as a skin and music.
@@antranphuoc-wo8xi "mario smash actually inspired Sans" Huh?
You said that Susie and Noelle aren't affected by LOVE, but I wonder how much this is the case. They do gain LOVE, and, as a result, should be able to distance themselves from the enemy somewhat. Perhaps this explains why they just let the player kill sometimes: they'd rather allow the player to do their thing so they can get home, rather than try to stall the player knowing that they'll probably proceed anyway.
They won't *always* let the player keep killing, because Susie and Noelle still aren't very close to LV 20 and aren't that distanced. To add onto that, they're children that actually experience this world personally, unlike the player, who is outside the world and influences it.
That's just my personal speculation on it, and if I'm right, I hope Susie and Noelle's ability to distance themselves is expanded on in later chapters.
They definitely are affected by LOVE as they even say (in section 2, I believe) that they were getting used to the killing, and it was getting easier.
You know, before they started killing animals and children.
I did not expect the bonk effect-
Omg, ken!
Hello there :D
Fun fact: When section 3 first came out, you could actually still play Uno in Snowdin with IF!Papyrus. While you were on genocide. They removed it in a recent patch, but like. Imagine killing children and like 80 other people and then just immediately playing Uno. At least they didn’t keep THAT in.
Also, I definitely think there should’ve been a unique cutscene for sparing GG!Sans on Obliteration. It’s literally just the same as pacifist and that’s just honestly really lazy.
Also, they just really shouldn’t have included the scenes where Kris rips out their heart. All it creates is plotholes. Oh, so you’re fine with killing ACTUAL CHILDREN but killing ONE of the Dogi and sparing the other? Oh no, THAT’S TOO FAR! DESTROY THE HEART! It honestly completely ruins the route. It’d be such a simple fix too.
They also should’ve just had it to where Susie and Noelle are also being controlled by you, which is why they can’t leave Kris.
Also, they shouldn’t have rubbed it in your face so much, constantly bringing up the thing with the Earthbound kids. I know, Susie, I WAS THERE!
Deltatraveler Oblit started way too big in my opinion.
What I mean is, your actions on the Oblit route cannot get much worse than killing Ness and Paula. The game pretends that it can, settling for cheap shock value with the dogs, and the gore. Unless we set off a nuke in the Toontown section or some crap like that, it’s not gonna get worse, and the game should just except that. Perhaps having Susie and Noelle do everything they can to just CONVINCE you to stop.
I think these simple changes could’ve made Deltatraveler Geno so much better while still keeping it mostly the same. But the writers seem to prefer what’s cool rather than what makes sense. And I think that’s ultimately Deltatraveler’s biggest problem.
For sparing GG!undefell there was meant to be a cutscene if you spared him in geno but it got scrapped because they didn't want to make another long ass cutscene
The scenes of kris ripping out their soul also contradicts canon deltarune, so like, kris is all ok with noelle manipulation and berdly's death and etc., but apparently killing dogaressa and sparing dogamy is going too far?
@@dylanzlol7293 well I mean, it's not meant to be Canon, it's a fangame
Sure plot holes exist but it's (to me at least) slightly implied that it's Pacifist deltarune into deltatraveler
@@miffin4906 yes, but the snowgrave run is official in deltarune, therefore, if kris doesnt rip out their soul during snowgrave on an official route, then it wouldnt make sense for kris to rip their soul out on deltatraveler even if deltatraveler says that snowgrave didnt happen
@@dylanzlol7293 Except the Dog Marriage scene they referred to where that can happen only happens because you went out of your way to spare one of them after killing their loved one. It's not even a canon event *_in Deltatraveller._* This is such a nothing point.
In fact, the parts where Kris rips out their heart in this route (that aren't alone like in original DR) are all optional deaths, that being one in Ruins (telling Toriel exactly what you did), something in Earthbound I don't remember seeing, and the Dog Marriage shit. What are you people even fucking *on* about?
5:01 Undertale has the same method for the Genocide Route, you have to move without stopping until you can fight an enemy, repeating yourself over and over again, and for the Genocide Route to be quick and have a bummer ending, this shows that the game doesn't want you to follow the bad path, so for Deltatraveler to want us to redo the entire genocide, yes, it's annoying, but understandable for the plot.
yeah exactly, this guy doesn't get that every annoying redo is intentional, it's supposed to make you want to quit, it's the whole point
it's actually to comment on grinding, and RPG mechanics not because it doesn't want you to follow the bad path, if it was that way the Snowgrave route would have more annoying grinding when it's much less than in Undertale at least rn
Tbh, even if section 3's geno isn't as good as I wanted it to be - i think it fits the AU.
You are in a world full of death and despair. Murder is the norm here, so are you that unique for killing a citizen?
This isn't your realistic Earthbound, where you'd go to jail for your terrible actions, NO!
It's kill or be killed in this world, if you like it or not!
this is our deltatravler
SOU reference?
i appeared on some flowers in the ruins
@@jaidenlikemario5660 we faced an evil talking flower with no fucking pot
WOOOHHHH WAAAH STORY OF DELTATRAVELER-
@@user-jt5el6yr7wHe explains the fight, Susie comes in and joins our plight.
The biggest crime of this route was the incredible missed opportunity for a Ness/Sans tag team battle. Or just a Ness battle on his own.
or maybe is in the final corridor in the castle, he doesn't replace sans, as he WILL be sans!
I think for the next sections, they should focus on the game trying to bore you to death to get you to stop doing the route, since they already tried hitting yu in the feels (toriel-Paula) and should save the hard fight for section 5-ish (M&L-Undyne the undying, 1-up Mushrooms)
I agree, just ok of feelings don’t work, make the player want to quit or see no point in progressing anymore. Then attempt to break their spirit with an ungodly hard battle with that “you realize you have a boring section before this for giving up”
And at the very end, Sans og, cus he's everywhere and there's no way we're not going to fight him
A zelda-based section cant exactly bore you to death through
@@dylanzlol7293 remove the puzzles, like in undertale.
@@acabusarmies7279 the thing is, the legend of zelda's battles are pretty active, with you having to attack and dodge in the overworld, battling wouldnt be boring.
To give credit to the napstablook thing, deltarune also does that, it’s easy to miss enemies or not know you’re supposed to talk to spamton in snowgrave and go to Berdly and abort the route, the weird route is cryptic and is supposed to mess with you a bit by making a harder to get genocide, I think deltatravlers is trying to keep it simple like undertale but have some small things here and there that you wouldn’t do otherwise so you wouldn’t accidentally get it, like having to go back in and out of rooms to get monsters and doing things you weren’t supposed to do on other routes, that being said this route feels like it was always going to fail, deltatravlers is a meme game based on a meme and while it is possible to still make it emotional and have a good story I think it’s status as the “kris where the hell are we” game is bringing it down a bit and I feel like Sarah wants it to be a bit of a meme game even now as some of the sillier writing still exists even in the obliteration route
Yeah but Ribbit managed to have emotional moments and that game is even more of a meme than Deltatraveler so it should still be workable.
@@user-fr2vs8yh7s incredibly fair, ribbit is a wonderful game so i agree that yeah you can have silly and a serious story at the same time
@@Tammythemousedon't know why, but didn't really liked ribbit. I think the creepy pasta style didn't catch up w/ me
The real crime is that we didn't have a challenging battle against Ness and Paula. Personally, I consider that the battles against the protagonists/heroes of the world in the geno route should be challenging and almost always, depending on the power of the character, end in a kind of tie between the player and the protagonists.
In battle Ness could have used "Lifeup" on both himself and Paula to avoid losing, even in a moment of tension and with determination learning "Shield a", they could even have used Ness's homesick!
P.S: On second thought, it doesn't make sense that in the world of Earthbound they know the acronym L.O.V.E they should just run away from you and call you a murderer lol
paula dying should've been the actual one where ness actually gets enraged.
FR, especially considering Ness is canonically stronger than Paula, which is shown in both the story and his stats.
Tbf, ness isnt at his best, if this section happened in a late-game area, ness would have the whole party and enough strength to destroy kris and co. easily
@@dylanzlol7293 yeah but he honestly would've had more depths in being enraged
@@cascade969 From what I've heard from other experienced Earthbound players, Paula is actually really strong with her PSI moves in gameplay.
@@legendgames128 yes because thats the whole point of a mage
weak in everything but psi
Okay so: in not a fan of chapter 3 either. BUT.
They know we exist. They know we're controlling kris. Thats like-- the concept? Coulda been better if there were like....more skepticism around it from susie and noelle? Have kris (seperate person from us, the player) eventually rip their soul out in front of the two to try and prove their point? They know that we arent going to stop, all i really want is something more than an off-screen conversation to show this. Something i did like was the red buster act now targeting us, the player. Maybe do more with that?
I know you sont agree with me on this, but i liked the mechanic or party members sometimes refusing orders, maybe have them target us when they're like that, force the player to observe the sprite, and constantly be on-edge, lest we eat a susie crit, or an iceshock, not just a one and done "oh, i guess i cant use that now."
I dunno. I like the idea of this section of the route more than the execution
kris DOES rip his soul out at the very very end of section 3 before entering the door to section 4, so there is that, everything else yea i can get with
I think the one and done red buster thing was purely meant for first time shock value. Though on a narrative stand point, i like to view it as susie getting some revenge on the player, after all, you did try to kill her by this point in the story. Also since noelle didnt see it happen or have it happen to her (and because she’s easily manipulated) having her still be able to do her iceshock on enemies is cool (pun kinda intended)
@@Galactic-Draws actually.... nope! You (can) try to kill her but that can only happen after the off-screen conversation that causes that to even happen.
Why would it be bad it's the only undertale fangame that let's you murder a human child in front of his friend
Yeah
i agree
Inverted fate:
@@Xenodrad5301YOU can never kill HUMAN CHILD on inverted fate
@@blackjackgameplay5169 in Spamton fight, probably you can attack Lilac. But yeah, in inverted fate there's child killing.
I personally feel like commenting on the game mechanics of undertale or its fangame's genocide routes as "annoying" or "time consuming" is kinda dumb because that's the point, to bore you and waste your time, as you are supposedly shouldn't be doing that route
Yeah but just because "its the point" doesnt suddenly make it good game design games are supposed to be fun and wasting my time doesnt make you a fucking god at game design. If I throw eggs at your house and cause it to smell causing you to clean it thus wasting your time as well and then say "uhh. But you see that was the point I was trying to show you how you shouldnt be a bad person because it sucks for others" is that suddenly gonna make me a god at being a nice person?
@@ItsCandyindefinitely I mean if I did something bad enough to get my house egged then it's fine, I don't see your point.
No, it doesn't not make you a nice person, but there is some sort of justification. Besides, comparing "good game design" and "being a nice person" isn't a good comparison for this situation. It's more like "being a just person".
12:01 if you do this battle by getting both of the cultists to low health and then killing them both on the next two turns, this fight becomes so much easier. i’d say one cultist fighting you after seeing you kill the other one is harder than both of them fighting you at once.
From my personal experience, its a better idea to spam iceshock with noelle if susie cant attack (e.g is not in the battle or is currently downed)
I have a theory why the pms don’t leave
1 they are effected by LOVE and the player has some control over them.
2. They know Kris is stronger then both of them
Or they think they might try redemption
Thing is now in section 3 geno they know it’s not Kris’s fault, it’s us doing most of the actions, so now the group wants to help Kris and slow down the soul.
But,when fighting ness and paula,you could make them wanna spare you,but you betrayed them,it one hit ness tho.
Calling Paula a "bootleg Asriel" is so wrong if you've actually played Earthbound. All of Paula's attacks are actually references to the PSI moves she learns in Earthbound. Why does she use Asriel's Star Blazing? Simple, it's PK Starstorm! Why does she use Toriel's fire attacks? It's PK Fire!
Funny enough, Paula doesn't learn PK Starstorm or healing PSI in Earthbound so that's kind of inacurated
@@francyisanid1ot106 It's Ness who heals her during Phase 1. During Phase 2, she can't be healed at all. (Also, you're right about PK Starstorm, it's Poo who learns the attack, not Paula. My mistake.)
@@PatootheHuaso yeah but in pacifist and neutral she has lifeup somehow
I feel the problem with section 3 is that the route peak at section 2 with the scale of how messed up your actions are. Like the only character you could feel bad about fighting is UF Papyrus but he doesnt have a fight.
And like in one scene they talk about how mess up your actions are and in another Susie just lets you kill a dog cause you were insisting on it. Like what?
And i feel the Sans fight was a miss potencial. Since we are not gonna feel bad about killing him, it think they should have taken another appoach. Mess with the party. Have Sans tell them that they are criticize him for what he is doing but that they are doing the same thing and that one day they'll become just like him if not even worst. That would hit hard on what route they are going towards and you could even implement this in battle, like having sans mess with one of your party member making them unable to attack or unable to do certain actions. It would be fitting as well since the way to beat him is to distract him, so him doing the same thing back to you would give the battle another vibe
So when you get Noelle she has the same level as Kris and Susie. My question is what the hell was she doing before we recruited her on the genocide route?
It's undertale's idea that you aren't gaining LOVE but your soul is. When susie and noelle are in the party, kris' soul is in control of their actions, therefore its LOVE becomes their LOVE
@@nsikakime1371
Also, in deltarune, getting stronger with violence, either by doing the weird route or just being a hyperviolent dick, will still affect other party members after they've joined your party, so maybe the rule is just that the leader of the party's lv reflects the entire party's (despite the fact that Noelle has 1 lv in Chapter 2, but that might not even be Level of Violence, so…??).
There was a livestream where the crater of delta traveler Talk about genocide run a little bit and They went through Making this route it's big thing screw The player over
I kinda like that And isn't the genocide run meant to suck It's meant to be Tedious and annoying Because it doesn't want you to do it
one thing that could happen if in section 3.
in that part of the lesser dog, susie just says 'no' if you try to come back, but in the part where you fall of the bridge, susie and noelle just fall in the trees and get blocked while you fall in the house. You can just fight sans, but if you want to kill lesser dog, since susie is blocked, you can make all the way back to the part of lesser dog and kill him, and after this, susie would apper saying that she could escape and was looking for you, and have all the bla bla bla that you try to kill susie and etc.
Even though, this looks very specificy, it would show how BAD you want to kill
Good idea !
I like how Kris, Noelle, and Susie don’t discriminate in how fucked up all of it is. Monsters were killed, it’s disturbing. Humans were killed, it’s disturbing too. Equally traumatizing for them.
Mario & Luigi section is gonna be so dark-
Undersell makes sense why nothing really changed. You’re following the rules “it’s kill or be killed” and bro called an obviously Patrick star laugh a joker laugh.
18:43 I think megalovania represents someone trying to survive or avenge others's death. The guy that has this them in the earthbound hack is just trying to defend himself.
Megalovania is meant to be a situational theme to represent that you're near the end of the chapter/story. However there is some relationship to the characters though, that's why vriska's motif is in homestuck megalovania.
@@BlueCheeseTheCoolCheese Hey do you know where this was said about Megalovania? I kinda remember that, but I don't quite remember where
@@yagofazcoisaseuacho8035 it's from a toby interview b ut i forgot the source to it
@@yagofazcoisaseuacho8035 Toby himself said it in a Homestuck forum and then again in sn interview with Yoko Shimomura
@@LoiValdes Oh thanks, I knew I saw somewhere, just wanted to know where
By the way, in Earthbound, Paula is basically the party's spellcaster.
Her physical attacks are weaker, but she's one of the only party members to gain PK Starstorm, and is almost entirely offensive magic based.
As such, her destructive power usually outshines everyone else's.
Doesn't only Poo learn Starstorm, since he goes off to train with the Star Master?
Deltatraveler genocide is basically the "human I remember your genocides" brain rot memes you find on reddit ngl and seeing how Susie and Noelle continue to continually call Kris a murderer... It feels really uncomfortable and messed up even for a deltarune/Undertale game. Like really. I feel most fangames lose what the genocide route really is about. Don't get me wrong the route bosses some of them are fun but still
Susie and Noelle after Kris tells them OFFSCREEN about being possessed "Oh it's fine, let's keep OBLITERATING some monsters"
@@angelnati8297 yeah honestly they both make the whole route really uncomfortable and disgusting... Also I hate how deltatraveler no matter if you are on pacifist or genocide they instantly acknowledge Kris hates the player in any route... Completely breaks the pacifist ambient imo.
Player - bad it's like everyone call you out for Litteraly just playing a dumb game of a blind kid that makes friends with monsters.
I agree with a lot of the stuff here, although I wasn't aware that the Obliteration Route was that controversial. I thought I was alone in kind of disliking it.
I hate Kris tearing out the soul and killing you at random dialogue options. If they can do THAT then WHY ON EARTH WOULD THEY LET YOU KILL CHILDREN? It makes no sense.
I generally think that Deltatraveler's biggest weakness is how hard they go on the "Kris and the player are separate!!!" thing. Like, obviously Deltarune is going in that direction so I can't say this is a completely nonsensical thing, but Deltarune has the potential to flop with it as well. At the moment, it's subtle, kind of in the background, this slow burn thing that will eventually culminate in something. It's a morally grey situation, especially in Pacifist, because you did not WANT to get stuck with Kris. That was against your will. You created a vessel and everything and were gonna use that. And things get even more deliciously complicated if Kris is the Knight, but even if they aren't, there's still a lot of potential, and it's a very cool situation.
Deltatraveler gets rid of all of that and just goes "Player bad for playing game" and beats the dead horse of Kris and the Player being separate way too much, and they don't have any nuance to it, or any subtlety, it's just... WOW PLAYER BAD POSSESSING MUST STOP PLAYER, and this is at its worst in the Obliteration Route, because, again, all the dialogue stuff. And yet Kris doesn't stop you from killing. "I can't control myself" NO YOU SURE CAN CONTROL YOURSELF PERFECTLY FINE WHEN YOU WANT TO PULL ME OUT AND KILL ME I swear it makes it seem like Kris has a hidden agenda and are OKAY with the killing, like Deltarune has the potential to do, except that's clearly not what they're setting up with Deltatraveler, they want Kris to be completely squeaky clean and innocent. It's just so contradictory and makes no logical sense. I hate it so much.
In terms of specific sections, I feel like I've liked each section less than the previous one so far just in general, but I'll focus on Obliteration here since that's what the video is about.
Ruins is really good. It's basically just Undertale's Genocide Route, which is already great, so of course this will be great too. Susie's stuff here is good, it's the very start and she's reacting to it naturally, and no dead horses are beaten. The Napstablook encounter is really creative, even if their death dialogue is just trying to guilt trip the player, which isn't the best. Using magic to kill them is a great concept. The only problem with the Ruins Obliteration I'd say is, of course, Kris pulling out the soul and killing you for certain dialogue options, but that's more of a problem with the whole game than specifically Ruins. Also Napstablook's guilt tripping I guess. It just doesn't work.
Earthbound is... not so good. I don't like the blood. We've all kind of become desensitized to realistic, bloody violence over all these years, and it's become associated with edgy stuff. I don't necessarily think that it's just edgy and nothing else HERE, it has good reason to be there, they are creatures with blood of course they'd bleed, but it just doesn't do anything for me. Monsters dissolving into dust is way eerier. It's not "Look at all the BLOOD they're DEAD you KILLED SOMEONE YOU MONSTER" it's "You literally erased this person from existence. There is nothing of them left. Continue." It's a unique form of death that is not so overdone that everyone is desensitized to it, and it's strength in subtlety. There's none of that with a bloody death. Also the whole "You now have the ability to draw blood" or whatever is really stupid and dumb and I hate it. The Ness and Paula fight is great, but I hope that "Kill the protagonists in a bloody mess" is not the standard going forward for the other games' Obliteration Routes. If there is any blood in Mario & Luigi I will scream. There is SO much potential to make a dark, disturbing route out of the Bowser's Inside Story set up without resorting to blood. Break Bowser's bones or some shit. Kill his immune system. Something like that. There's also like, no way a Mario & Luigi fight would even work. They're known for dodging. That's their whole thing. So either we have VS 2 Sans who don't get tired, or we just don't fight them, which would be preferable.
Underfell has like no differences at all, except for that dumb stupid edgy Sans normal kill the video already talks about. The IceShock kill is WAY better. Also, I don't remember his jaw falling off like that, did they add that in an update? Did they update it to be worse??? I guess the dust is back which is better than blood, and it's more morally grey I GUESS, except for the stupid dumb dog thing, but I do like the Susie encounter at the end... The fight, not the dialogue afterwards, that's dumb. But Susie being downed and then sparing herself because she's still part of the party (She also uses your TP) is clever.
TLDR: Deltatraveler really needs to learn subtlety.
(Might update this comment later I kind of rushed it cause I need to go somewhere)
Okay quick clarification: Guilt tripping the player is not an inherently bad idea. It can be done right. In Undertale, things like Papyrus and Monster Kid do it very well. But Napstablook in Deltatraveler does not do it well. Their dialogue is literally just saying what you did. Yeah, I already know I killed someone just for laying there, and that I used Susie to do it. I came to terms with that when I started attacking them. Thanks captain obvious. There's no impact in spelling it out. Besides, nobody's gonna be saying that shit in their dying moments anyways.
I feel like the moment would've been more effective if Napstablook just didn't say anything, and immediately dusted. Then it would've been a shock to the players who may not have expected them to actually die, since they can't in Undertale, and the shock may have given the player a moment of "Oh my god I actually did that". Instead, Deltatraveler drags it out with a death monologue that kind of soils the impact, trying to explicitly spell out what the player did and tell them how to feel instead of actually crafting a moment that makes them feel that way naturally.
Deltatraveler TELLS you that you're a monster, Undertale makes you FEEL like a monster. Again, strength in subtlety.
Shoutouts to TS!Underswap here, the Ruthless Route, especially the Harry and Larry encounter, is an absolute masterclass at everything it does. Peak fanmade Genocide content, imo.
Also yeah I agree with the video on the group splitting up at the start of Underfell. It had a lot of potential, and they ruined it with no explanation. I was looking forward to Kris being alone and maybe getting something more akin to Undertale's Genocide Route instead of having the others shove "BAD EVIL BAD" down our throats constantly. Something I didn't consider but could've been really cool would've been Susie and Noelle actually going ahead and trying to warn people about you. That would've been interesting to see. But nope, had to have them there so that they could tell you to feel bad for killing a dog. No need, I already feel bad about it as is. Dogs are definitely better than human children.
Also side note: Monsters turning to dust in Undertale kind of plays on the typical RPG affair of enemies disappearing when they're defeated, re contextualizing enemies simply disappearing as them literally dissolving into nothing. It's a great spin on a classic trope. Mario & Luigi does this trope too, with them exploding into stars and stuff. There's potential to re contextualize the exploding into stars stuff in Deltatraveler like Undertale did for the typical disappearing thing. Doubt they'll take advantage of that potential though.
bro holy crap
you really described deltatraveler's flaws the best here
i haven't really gotten myself into playing it since i feel like the execution behind it would be bad as i suspected it (way beyond the meme it originated from), i only got around to playing & finishing undertale yellow and ts!underswap and i say these two games are pretty peak
kind of a shame deltatraveler has a lot of potential wasted, i mean even gg!underfell sans attacks are taken from ryno's old sans fight fangame and the only thing good about it is the theme
I agree, deltatraveler has always been a game ive seen as having really great concepts but it fails alot in reality. some moments are some of the best of any undertale fangame, but 2-3 cool scenes doesnt make up for its hugely lacking... everything honestly. Another thing i can add that is super stupid to this route, is the jerry fight. In pacifist? one of the best parts of the game, no doubt. In obliteration? you just killed 2 kids, killed a ton of dogs and here you are having fun mashing z with standing heeeere i realise as if youre not on the "you are doing a bad thing" route. Like talk about tonal whiplash
@@butterflydreamer9649 Wait, you can fight Jerry on Obliteration? That's stupid. I feel like blocking off the gag fight should be like, Genocide Route design 101. Or surprise everyone with Jerry becoming serious and having a serious Jerry fight, something like Berdly in Deltarune.
Could've even been a great chance to show your power, shock the player by having them one shot Jerry, similar to how Undertale has you one shot most bosses in Genocide. Although maybe that would be a bit unbelievable, since we're in Chapter 3 of 7, and there will be plenty more bosses that you can't one shot.
...then again, damage is about capacity to hurt... Toriel even says "Do you really hate me that much?" and who do players hate more than Jerry? Could've been both a shocking moment on first encounter, and then a really funny moment when you think about WHY he was one shot.
@@accomplishedshipyard the jerry fight wouldve been fine if they just didnt include that stupid fight sequence which is funny outside of obliteration where its just atmosphere breaking
section 3 felt more of a filler section to me
Personally, my only main gripe with the Obliteration route is Section 3. In Section 1, there are barely any significant changes in the route since it is just the start. However, Section 2 feels a huge whiplash into the reality we are creatung, with the darker tone, dialouge, sprites, as well as a different boss then the one in a Pacifist run. It felt like it is setting up for Section 3’s Obliteration route to be extremely different (or at least very different) from its Pacifist counterpart. So when I finally did the Obliteration route and barely anything changes other than a few dialouge, sprite, and battle changes. I was severely dissapointed. Especially since the boss is the exact same as the one in Pacifist except now he is slightly harder. I get that this basically a Genocide route and that Genocide routes are not supposed to be fun. I understand that. The problem is the Obliteration route was setting itself up as this route which will derail the story to give the player a much more bigger and emotional impact rather than a route which will punish the player for going down it. If you were to ask me what I would change in Section 3’s Obliteration route. I would say replace GG!FellSans with GG!FellPapyrus, but instead of a really difficult battle with Ness and Pauline, it would be a reenactment of Undertale Papyrus’ scene in the Genocide route. Not only would this better fit the tone of the Obliteration Route but it would also give The Fun Gang another dilemma. The dilemma they had in Section 2 is of killing Ness and Pauline, who were literal children. In Section 3 they would have the dilemma of killing GG!FellPapyrus. Who is literally the only enemy who is sparing them on the first turn and isn’t even willing to fight them at this point. They would have the dilemma of killing the one person who still believes they could change. And I think that would be far more interesting than a harder GG!FellSans fight. It would also make the interaction which Undertale Papyrus much more impactful as the fun gang would see literally afterwards a version of the person they just killed. Or after killing GG!FellPapyrus they continue through the rest of GG!Fell all the way up to where they would usually find the next grey door in Pacifist. And since this is technically a different grey door than the one in Pacifist. They would end up in a entirely new Section 4. A completely different franchise than what is planned for Pacifist Section 4. Sorry for the rambling but I really wanted to share my thoughts on this
Then what game you would choose for the obliration route section 4?
@@user-mw3yg7bv5i I may not know much of Zelda. But I do know their are multiple timelines in it which includes a dark timeline. I feel like a Section 4 Obliteration route can be replaced with one of the games in Downfall of the Hero timeline. They could even make Section 4 about The Imprisoning War. This would be really interesting and would also be a reflection of what happened to the worlds we slaughtered (Mainly Section 2 since Giygas likely won’t be stopped anymore).
@@mrgamemaster7761 Section 4 will take place in Link to the past, which takes place in the downfall of the hero timeline, so I would say Majora's Mask or Twilight Princess. Or if you want to go one step beyond use an new game like Super Metroid, LISA: The Painful, PMD explorers of sky, and maybe even Mario The Music Box if you want.
@@user-mw3yg7bv5iWhile those are all good options, I feel like it would have to be Zelda related since it is still Section 4 (Total Derailment would probably in Section 5 or Section 6). I do think Majora’s Mask would be good since if we follow the pattern and kill that Link, The Delta Warriors would see the consequences of their actions with the Moon coming down. It might even make a good chase scene. Having to rush to the grey door before the Moon hits the earth. For Section 5, I think TS!Underswap could be replace with Halos Dustbelief (Or any Dustbelief) as The Delta Warriors would be reminded of GG!FellPapyrus (If we follow my idea of Section 3 it would also remind them of his death) and would also have them face someone like them. Section 6 could either be Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time or Super Paper Mario as they are the darkest games of their respective series. Or we could even have your idea of doing Mario and the Music Box. And maybe even Coronation Day if done right. Dont know what Section 7 would be other than Epic Mickey with the really REALLY dark concept art. And Section 8 could either be the same world but a lot more glitchy and messed up or a Section where it is a glitchy and horrific mashup of the previous sections, reflecting the your sins by having you endure it all yet again.
@@mrgamemaster7761 For the Mario section, well I do believe that Partners In Time, Super Paper Mario and Coronation Day could work, I would personally pick Mario and The Music Box because I would like to know how they would do the multiple deaths scenes. Assuming the final boss of the obliteration route are the deltatravelers, after you killed all three of them, and maybe kill Gaster, Dess and Sans in the same fashion as Flowey in genocide, the vessel (the same one we made in section 3) who we been controling in this section takes Kris's dead body, throws it on to the pile of discarded vessels and we somehow get disconnected. The vessel has decided to replace them and has went to Hometown like none of it have ever happened. In a post credit scene, we can hear DR Toriel talking to the vessel who is pretending to be Kris in a black screen, starting to get a little suspicious of their true nature, slash attack and a hi damage count appears, implying that the vessel killed her.
One of my issues is that in this route is that susie and noelle do the same resisting during the ggfell sans fight as the ness and paula fight its just stupid how they bring this back for ggfell sans the character that deserves there fate in this route the most so far
Deltatraveler Obliteration after the Noelle Curse of Section The Third
The punishment for choosing the evil dialogue can be fixed with adding a save point before meeting Toriel, just that, That the entire solution and the dev didn't even think to add that or he just lazy or they want to punish the player I don't know
Why add a SAVE point where there was never one to begin with? It's literally the RUINS, one-to-one from Undertale. Moving the SAVE point there or adding one would deviate from the original layout, which isn't what they're going for.
... Besides, there's literally a SAVE point *_in that exact room with Toriel,_* right in front of her house. Why the fuck would you have two SAVE points back-to-back? That's just stupid game design.
(... i say that, but there were 3 back-to-back SAVEs in original UT; 1 right before Asgore's throne room, one _in_ said throne room, and one right before the Barrier. Maybe Toby did that to match with the king's utter reluctance to follow through with his promise to his people? I dunno.)
@@bababooey5402 good point
Even UnderTale punishes you for performing the Genocide route. It's incredibly boring, results in a few “high moments” of being incredibly outraged or done with you, and then stabs you in the back for being a callous bastard. Deltatraveler doing the same is faithful to the original game.
By the way for the paula fight you forgot to mention the fact you get x slash
The easy way to do the fight is to have Kris do all of the damage with x slash and defend Susie and Noelle every turn to gain tp
Wait that’s what you do? I just had noelle use dual heal.
@@jojogacha974 x slash does 2r0 damage for 40 tp making it the most efficient dps in the fifht
@@danielfazylov6960 In an original patch, X-Slash would usually do around 210 damage for 24 TP, but it's also kinda broken in some attacks, making it easier to know patterns
@@danielfazylov6960 yeah but I basically spammed dual heal when everyone was low and used my epic gaming skill to graze the attacks
I have to save files on obliteration route, one the main, and second when I fuck things up. The problem with obliteration route is when you don't have a "backup" (so you can go back to the beginning to Section 3 after you kill Ness and Paula), you have to do the whole shit again from the very beginning of the game. Even when you miss 1 monster.
17:30
i love how the lightning syncs up with the music here
Funfact: sans’ laugh isnt that from jokers, but from patrick 😭
a 30 minute video from basedguy4229 is the best birthday present fr
You could use ice shock on the blue men and geno sans for unique dialogue I believe
2:00
In fact, I like the mechanics of the enemy running from us, because it at least makes the genocide route a little more realistic, you feel that your enemies are fighting for their lives and running away from you, otherwise it’s strange that they see maniacs who killed half of the inhabitants, and they're like "Ooh, let's go get them!"
I just watched an entire run of the genocide of section 1 and 2 and didn't know why people started to hatting genocide route of Deltatraveler... And oh boy, I didn't know what happened on section 3
Earthbound has the same humor that undertale and deltarune. For exxample, there is a weirdly placed pen that you have to remove with the pen remover lol.
Paula isnt really in character. Shes a sweet girl and would probably be defenseless after Ness dies. Wheb you pick her up in Earthbound, you get a meat shied to make sure she can level up, because she is just so weak. Even after that point, I kinda used Paula more for healing than combat cos Poo, Ness, and Jeff all were better offensively. It would have been more in character if she prayed right as Ness died, and then the fight ensued.
I'm sorry to say, but you weren't using her correctly then, she is a huge powerhouse when she uses her PSI, sure, he physical attacks suck, but her PSI more than makes up for that
Hell, Ness and Poo are way better healers than she is
@@yagofazcoisaseuacho8035 Yeah, her PSI Freeze was especially OP if I remember correctly.
@@cascade969 yeah, there was more than a few cases where PSI Fire was pretty useful, but PSI Freeze was pretty much the strongest PSI in the game in terms of consistent damage alongside Poo's PSI Starstorm, with only Ness's PSI Rockin being stronger, but it was less consistent
Using Paula as a healer and Ness as an attacker is messed up tbh
Paula has like, 15 lines total in entire earthbound, so i don't blame the devs for giving her a diffrent personality than in the original game since the MCs there were blank slates. I honestly interpreted her personality just like it was in deltatraveler. And Paula is more of a "mage character", since she has the strongest psychic attacks in the game (with the exception of poopoo's starstorm spell thingy i think but i almost never used it so i can't say for sure)
complains about susie not leaving or not fighting without realising it would be the most obnoxious gameplay ever
It would,but isnt geno supposed to have that
@@basedguy.4229 geno is supposed to be boring is a bad argument for undertale you paid 14 dollars 😭
nvm lol i read that wrong
@@dahdurr geno being obnoxious in a free fangame is probably not a big deal, good even
@@maritoxico9982 games are supposed to be fun
Honestly, I recently did the undertale geno route and I must say, after frisk dancing for what felt like hours I was going absolutely insane, while during the deltatraveler geno I was having quite a lot of fun, as needing to remember where the enemies are was a lot better than slowly having the time between each encounter slowly tick up until I’m on the verge of snapping.
Gonna be honest though, my genocide run in deltatraveler is fueled by spite against kris for disobeying me in the GG!Underfell segment.
Kinda unrelated, but Undertale's genocide route gets way worse (in terms of quality of life) if you do a maximum EXP run.
Trust me, I actually did it.
i hate the fact this game actively tries to SCREW YOU OVER for playing this route, like that’s absolutely horrible game design. And the fact it tries to PASS IT OFF AS BEING EMOTIONAL is just so cheap. Like seriously, devs. Section three ruined this game for me smh
I mean at least instead of all the cheesy evil dialogue options it could just be proceed, it’d be better for lore and writing stuff
That was a very nice video but just a little question
Will you ever review horrortale and also the fan games too
Definitely
Heres something really messed up: Getting ness and paula to the point of being spared and then betraying them is faster than fighting
my problems with deltatraveler's genocidal route:
section 1: when kris kills us and makes us have to kill all the enemies again, I don't like it, ryno was able to make us respawn a room before we found toriel as carpainter.
Section 2: I don't care about farming but the first part of section 2 is just killing enemies.
Extra: I like that the enemies bleed because it makes sense and about the fight between Ness and Paula I like that Paula is the one who gets angry, it's a shame that canonically she doesn't have some of those attacks in Earthbound but I like it anyway.
section 3: when susi and noelle leave the team it bothers me because they abandon him just for killing "snowy", I would have liked that before killing "snowy" noelle left the team and that susi abandoned us to look for her.
Second problem: when Susi and Noelle abandon us in the Dogamy and Dogaresa fight it doesn't make sense, it would make more sense for them to abandon us in the Lesser Dog battle, but not say: "Kris, why do you want to kill a dog" and after five minutes They let us kill him, so Susi's fight was unnecessary although I liked the "devius" mechanic.
third problem: the death of gg sans is not edgy but the last laugh is unnecessary.
Anyway, as the video says, the Geno route is ok but something that catches my attention is the LV, we are already level 14 and it is only section 3, anyway, I am a big fan of deltatraveler.
I definitely agree that re-entering rooms over and over gets old pretty fast. At least it isn't as bad as Undertale's grinding. Also, please, Kris uses they/them. This isn't r/undertale 🤣For the Ness and Paula battle, I don't really agree with the first phase being better than the second one. The first phase is barely even one in my opinion, since the attacks are pretty easy to dodge and can be finished quite easily. It would have been more impacting for sure if Paula was defenseless after Ness' death, but I feel like it would have been a bit lame and anticlimatic, since, as I said before, the first phase is bit too short and easy imo. During second phase, you can tell if your allies don't want to fight when their sprites (that's right above their hp) are different than normal. If Susie doesn't want to fight, she has an angry expression. If it's noelle, she looks down with messed up hair and stuff. I agree 100% with Section 3 being lame af in obliteration. In a way, it makes sense since this world is really kill or be killed, but I just wish it had a bit more impact. The lesser dog scene really wasn't needed since you can just go back and kill it anyways. The susie scene is where you should have put the clown music imo, like??? Why doesn't she just kill Kris? Wasn't that the literal point of her attacking them? To kill Kris if they went too far cuz of the player? AND THEN SHE JUST STANDS THERE AFTERWARDS??? Bitch do you really think THE ENTITY THAT KILLED LITERAL CHILDREN is going to spare you?? No hate towards the devs, but this scene could have been so much more. And then she lives and just spares herself cuz plot armor I guess. I do like the devious status you can give to Susie if you select the bad choices, although I feel that it could be expanded upon a bit more. I agree with the Sans fight being Kris only in obliteration. Not only would it have given more lore about GG!Underfell Sans, but it would make the fight a lot harder as well. Here it's pretty lame since it's just pacifist/neutral but super easy. The laugh was a bit over the top, but I didn't really mind Sans's death all too much. Would definitely help if it was little less gory though. In conclusion, this route is alright. It has its flaws but I can't really judge it all too well since it's barely half the story. I just wish they fix up the plot holes made in Section 3 in the future cuz... It's pretty bad. Hopefully Section 4 won't dissapoint.
My honest favourite part of this route was riiiight at the beginning, the day the game first came out I finished the pacifist route and wondered what might happen if i started *killing* some *monsters*
So I did, no real result at first but then… I heard it, the “ominous” sound from the snowgrave route, and I then understood part of what it was like for people to discover geno blindly in Undertale
I also like how In Earthbound, there’s a mechanic where your HP rolls, so basically if you get hit with a attack that does knock you out, you still have time before you’re actually knocked out, and that’s shown in Deltatravler when Paula attacks one more time before dying.
I just thought that was neat.
Honestly I think genocide is pretty unique in detlatravler it gives some uniques statues and makes tye genocide route actually difficult sometimes
But man my biggest grip on it is how section 1&3 are pretty much just the same as pacifist like i highly expected section 3 to have you fight both sans and papyrus or something
I mean yeah it does give the characters cool permanent statues but it needed a bit more imo
There isn't going to be that many more oblit exclusive fights they confirmed that the only oblit exclusive fights are in the undertale sections after 3
@@danielfazylov6960 Where’d they say that
24:15 you're being ignorant, it's just like the end of the Sans fight, the player gets what the player wants, Susie can try to stall you but she knows you'll just keep trying to get back there until you eventually do, so she just lets you because she just wants to move on
19:03 its possible to tell whether they'll listen or not depending on their expression, which makes it less of a pain.
The Paula fight and your allies not listening also emphasizes how youre a monster in a different way from her being just free EXP. The only other person to realistically challenge the player from finishing the job would be Susie stepping in.
I think the theme is a fitting banger to the fight as well, and it ends like neutral undyne.
Before Section 3 came out, I predicted that Susie and Noelle would get increasingly upset and distanced from Kris, and in a later section, they would abandon Kris entirely as a result. I think that would make for an interesting concept.
good video but please remember to use they/them for kris....thank you!
One of the things that grinds my gears is that killing Fell Jerry and Fell Sans is considered bad when THEY'RE BOTH MURDEROUS PSYCHOPATHS KILLING THEM IS DOING THE FELL UNDERGROUND A FAVOUR
I wouldn't call them joining again to Kris an plot hole since they would just probably meet the same fate in the Underfell's snowdin forest mostly from fell Sans.
And most of actions they perform are controlled by the player instead.
They are also stuck with the player anyway so they would all meet in the same place again due to Grey doors.
also sans in undertale either has blood or it's ketchup.
Im pretty sure it was confirmed to be ketchup
I still remember how I went through the obliteration route!
In section 1, when I was killing monsters, new music started playing after that, it was atmospheric, I was especially impressed by the murders of Napstablook and to tam de, Flowey's dialogues changed! However, I am annoyed by the fact that Susie is not aware of killing a ghost! But still, section 1 wasn't bad!
In section 2, when I killed a snake, blood starts flowing here, it caused a pretty good impression about it, because animals and people are made of blood. And when I tried to kill a snake on a neutral route, the place of death, the snake runs away, as it was in Deltarune, I especially liked how Suzy and Noelle fell into depression all because of the killing of children! But there are disadvantages in this section: tedium, grind and a fat strip of HP health (especially Ness and Paula)!
In section 3, oh nightmare, how I FUCKING HATE the geno route in section 3!!! She disappointed me a lot! Susie immediately became normal after meeting Fell!Sans, especially after the rabbit house, Noelle has also become nominally, and they smile in sweats, pretending as if nothing had happened! There is too much hypocrisy of the characters, the whole route looks like a neutral, not a geno (except for Snovy, Dogami and Dogaressa, and lesser dog)! There's nothing changed in section 3, after the killing of the children! And Susie and Noelle are still attacking monsters, even though they promised to help Kris!
After section 3, the geno route in Deltatraveler rolled down for me personally and I got sick of this route! I don't understand why many people liked the geno route in section 3?
"Deltatraveler Obliteration is too edgy"
Mf its a literal Genocide route
Im very sure no one would like killing living beings for no reason,but i guess they dont think about that since they havent even fighted someone irl
IKR, WTH DO YOU MEAN "TOO EDGY" Undertale's TRIED TO make you murder a kid if not for Undyne, here the Undyne IS A KID, so it's only part of the geno effect, Undertale has a LOT of dark stuff in geno, you can't say "ooOO it's too edgy" and have an actual opinion that makes sense
The overly usage of blood, characters breaking their character making it feel like a stupid creepypasta, AND mindless swearing. If I ever played Deltatraveler I'd play Pacifist and just have fun with the actual good dialogue from pacifist. Overall, obliteration isn't that good. But that doesn't necessarily means the fangame is BAD.
@@cutorly this is so true, people think that the geno route is everything and hate the entire game because of that, when it has so much more to offer. Geno is supposed to be a hidden route that basically f**ks up the game, not the spotlight of the experience.
that's why i like au's like inverted fate, we need to appreciate pacifist more
@@cutorly Terraria solos-
Great video, I understand your points, but I think dt tries to do what Undertale did for Geno like other comment says, do it uncomfortable, do it tedious, do it a total pain just motivated for curiosity, but there is a point where something tedious becomes bad design, tedious can be the enemies escaping from you, you can learn the places, guide them to corners, maybe slowing them a bit would be good, but tedious is something like Susie fight after Lesser Dog imo, it can relate to the plot but making the fight again makes it tedious, feeling you have lost your time, gladly there is the interactions that makes the dog fight faster but still, maybe something like Susie stopping when you're at 1 HP and a secret cutscene if you survive? Then, the Kris killing you could be something like "Kris doesn't care about dying anymore", because well, saying to an alternate universe version of your mother that you have killed everyone else and you feel great about it, yeah..., but iirc now you can respawn just before the cutscene? Idk but it happens if you die in certain moments I think.
I agree blood is justified in Section 2, not only because they have blood unlike monsters in ut and the previous enemies could be still consireded "magical" (Not sure, haven't played Earthbound), Paula evading you dropping the thing, then that guy, everything still normal agreeing with what you said, but the part of killing animals is just like "Oh please no, I love pets" even worse remembering the times some of them have been crashed by a car, at least for me, Ness and Paula fight is good, but I think Paula solo is better, maybe because haven't seen too many of the x character dies y character becomes op, Megalovania is a good choice imo because in the context of Undertale at least the way I see it, it's the song that goes with what you have been wanting, the different ending, and how the character that in most of the other routes is your friend, now is one of the hardest fights in the game for a first playthrough, Sans "cheats" when dodging and attacking you while being in your turn or the special attack, you end cheating too, you stopped caring about the characters and simply mechanized (Idk if this word is said like this in english) the process to get something new, so in the context of Paula, I think it fits, not the best, but it fits for what it could represent, Paula making crits with the pan just like maybe you did in ut, and then grabbing it just like nothing, just like the Clean Pan.
Section 3 is ok but inferior to 1 and 2, mostly because it focuses in "promises" rather than doing something in the section itself, the vessel, what Kris, Susie and Noelle could have talked, Gaster secrets, Sans key, Sans refusing to buy the clean pan, yeah, I think it could work in the future, but what we have in this section is weaker than the other ones, maybe something like Kris solo the entire section? Making a parallelism with ut and the curse of your pressence, Susie letting you go for dog I think it's because she's scared of you attacking her if she refuses to cooperate, and then when seeing that even after allowing you to do it you still hurt her, she doesn't want to leave Kris but also doesn't want to deal with you, yeah, it breaks the cycle of Kris killing you, but still ok but a bit coping imo.
Fell Sans fight was a bit dissapointing for me, no special dialogue for aborted obliteration in here, and the fight doesn't change too much, I agree a Kris solo would have been interesting, or maybe even something like Fell Sans not appearing and following you though the door? Now having to kiil him because is too dangerous for ut world, and maybe even some monsters in Snowdin seeing how you kill someone who looks similar to Sans, maybe even Papyrus, I hope the next sections become better, with the Mario & Luigi Section being something that I'm really interested, I hope they can save the game and Section 3 becoming the weak part that a lot of good games can have.
Great video one more time :3
i wanted to talk about this part of the video 23:23 they actually are affected by LOVE, whenever your LOVE increases their hp increases along with other stats as well, just pointing that out.
The one instance where i saw "x char dies and y char is op" being done well is literally in some random perspective mod.
Killing Alex Churchland too early just results into the Joel using his only bullet, then instakilling you. The end. Otherwise he holds off from actually shooting the gun completely. Trying to keep the bullet for as long as possible for future occassions.
25:01 would have been cooler if the only way to actually fight him is to forcefully KO your own party. through the means of intentionally taking damage.
28:23 it's so stupid that Susie only starts taking "active" measures not because due to being morally inclined to. But effectively just because "you're cringe"
Ok, there were a few things i wanted to note 1. Since you said you didn't play earthbound in the game, Ness and Paula don't every use team attacks (none of the party even use team attacks) it's them using their own attacks, so the attacks being a mix is more accurate so that's probably why its like that. 2. So the reason why the song sounds a bit weird and like some pieces are missing is because some pieces are actually missing since in earthbound you collect 8 melodys and by this point in the game Ness only has 2. 3. During phase 2 the song is from the Halloween hack. 4. While i admit that the attacks could have been more creative there really wasn't anything to pull from outside for also including PK/PSI freeze. 5. I really like the last part where it could possibly be a nod to the rolling health where in earthbound when your character is losing the health just roll down instead of being instead (don't quote me on this but I remember hearing that the more damage you take when this health is rolling down the faster it will go) so that's possible why Paula lasts a few more seconds. And 6. You didn't just kill the children you also technically killed everyone in that world do to the fact with Ness and Paula gone, Jeff and Poo can't defeat Giygas who will just destroy the world
My own take on the SSBU Megalovania remix is that Megalovania was originally a theme for Earthbound, so that could be a reason
This is... the first I'm hearing about any substantial criticism regarding the DT geno route.
Howdy. I am a deltarune fangame developer who developed a fangame called "STARRUNE"
It is a fully complete rather obscure fangame, I think it could fit on your channel, talking DT/UT fangames and all that.
(And I put in tons of work so I always sorta want more people to see it.)
Uh hey buddy how’s ulc vs ufs osts coming along been a while since the last part you made
7:44 there is an item called SKIP SANDWICH WHICH MAKES YOU MOVE FASTER TO CATCH ENEMIES FASTER
18:34 i think its a great choice cuz the original was already in HALLOWEEN HACK for earthbound
Hey Based! I've been just eating up your content for the past few months, and, as your name suggests, your takes and analysis' are pretty based! I wanted to recommend you cover the story of a game you're already quite familiar with, La Jupo Vania!
Now, the main story of the game is actually pretty cut and dry; most of it can be understood through a single playthrough. But I strongly feel there's a lot going on behind the scenes and pieces to an incomplete puzzle here. The Bloodfist Discord server is a good place to start, as some creators have openly revealed parts of the story that are NEVER mentioned ingame.
Characters like ARANEA, DAVID, WISE FETUS, F5, and even LA "King Shamusa" JUPO have backstories that are hardly explained, but the fragments ARE there. Now, whether it's a recap, timeline, iceberg, or even a full-blown theory, it's of course up to you. But I truly believe you would be the best guy for the job.
Here are some parts of the story that don't quite make sense, to give you some ideas:
- La Jupo and C4's friendship
- "GOD's" abandonment
- C4's SOUL
- ARANEA and INSANITY
- Gregory, David, F5, and Wise Fetus
- Demon Time
And if you do read this, I just wanted to say thanks for all the awesome content! Your work is severely underrated, and I've been introducing it to friends! I wish only the best for you and the future of this channel!
Tbh, I don't really consider Sans' normal death to be part of the Genocide Route of DeltaTraveler, mostly because it can still be accessed by normal means (from what I've seen at least)
I feel like the iceshock death variant is better for the geno run
@@dylanzlol7293 it even has the sound effect
@@dylanzlol7293 ye
1:45 "but then the enemies start running away from you"
Bruh I would be to if some murderous prick, who killed me twice before, came at me again while brandishing their weapon. I mean, I can see why this might be "bad" or "annoying" game wise but I think it's realistically what those monsters would do in that situation. After the first two losses I'd be like "oh shit they're coming back with murderous intent." I think Deltatraveler's obliteration route takes geno the same way Undertale does: Don't do it you cruel, ruthless, cold piece of shit. I don't think it's "supposed" to be enjoyable like genocide is in Undertale. Does that mean it should follow that same philosophy at the cost of an enjoyable experience? Idk, and idk why I've continued to rant for this long in a YT comment.
Honestly I prefer the Paula fight over her just crying because of 1 BIG detail not everyone knows, Paula is the one with the stronger PSI attacks, not Ness, she is stronger in fights than Ness in Mother, so her going berserk and being more powerful than him after his death makes sense
also in section 3 susie could've not come with kris in that room but instead only come after kris killed the doggo
Could you make a video about ts underswap geno ? I think there is quite a lot to talk about
Paula boss fight was pretty bonkers, Noelle's dual heal always came in clutch for me.
I feel like the more screwed up route that they ACKNOWLEDGE but don't even go with is if you SPARE the dog after the Ness/Paula fight.
Kris getting knocked out is the most funniest shit for some reason wtf
11:50 I had a ton of trouble with this battle too.
killing paula is better to me, since ness is the main character.
And she's weaker too, Mondo mole can kill her in like, one hit In Earthbound, would've made more sense if she had her Teddy Bear with her
Tbh ness would’ve won the fight but plot says Nuh uh
I heard Ness scales to universal level by the end of the game. So Kris and the gang would just flat out die lol.
@@g3nd1a69But we can't really use endgame power too scale The battle, because both Ness and Kris are still at early point of their adventure where Ness likely didn't get any very powerful PSI yet, same point with Kris where They're still early on in term of power
@@dynamitoriel9056assuming that ness defeated the second sanctuary his psi skills are more than enough. Pk rockin, while not doing hundreds of damage points is an ape attack that hits everyone that really can't be avoided, only blocked. Same thing for paula pk fire but it does have a chance of missing. While I'm not say Kris and again can't win its just that 7 times out 10 ness and paula would come out of that battle victorious if no plot was involved
I still don’t get why the underswap section for deltatraveler seems to be the starlight isles, since like we already have the snowdin section and chances are it’ll probably just retread section 2&3 in terms of concepts so :/
mind if you do a video about flowerfell, i think that this AU is underrated af and i want to see your opinion about it
YO, i absolutely adore your content, just wanted to say that, i dont know what else to say
"In Undertale Monsters Don't Bleed" Sans bleeds in genocide after you kill him
He is the only exception and it was likely to add dramatic effect
@@basedguy.4229 True
Some things id like to mention.
1. Kris uses they/them pronouns
2. Susie can't be killed and can spare herself because she's a party member, and by deltarune logic, party members can only be downed, and they can spare enemies.
3. I completely agree that secrion 3's geno was a huge letdown from section 2, at some times i even felt like i accidentally abandoned the route because of the lack of changes
4. I get the frustration about susie and noelle being able to resist attacking, but bfr, you are forcing them to kill literal kids, how else you think they are gonna react? I do think that them being able to do that is a huge plothole, wirh no exolaination on why dont they always just do that and spare the enemies on their own or something, guess we still gotta understand how much control a party leader has over the party.
5. I suppose susie let kris go kill the dog simply because she thought they wouldnt stop trying to go there and saw it as her only choice. Ofcourse, in game logic she could just have an infinitely looping dialogue whenever you try to enter the room, but by their stories logic, they need to keep going, they can't waste time, so stalling infinitely at that one room would be very stupid to say the least.
you should do one about hftv fr erererer
(i need some criticism and pointers for the remaster!!! im reamking everything to make it better quality and more fair :p)
ererererer??? SANS UNDERTALE REAL
@@Bengt2509 sands underman