Apple M0116 review REDUX (Alps SKCM Orange)
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- Опубликовано: 6 авг 2020
- Skip to 12:49 for a typing demonstration.
Today we take another look at the Apple M0116 and frankly my favourite tactile switches, Alps SKCM Orange. Went off a bit on a story here but I think it's an important point. Hope you enjoy the video :) .
Intro by Kyle Carter
Outro by Facundo Cabanne
My keyboard reviews: bit.ly/1TbOtft
My switch teardowns: bit.ly/2C1QGHz
My TOP X videos: bit.ly/2FmpZfd
My XL typing demos: bit.ly/2OoAW3w
My tutorials and featurettes: bit.ly/2OrkLUh
My unboxing videos: bit.ly/2TSrr0m
I'm Thomas and I do videos and reviews on mechanical keyboards ranging from the most sickening modern RGB gaming keyboards to vintage hardware relics, or sometimes keycaps or keyswitches ranging from Cherry MX to Alps SKCM to IBM buckling springs and anything in between.
Follow me on Twitter for updates on my keyboard videos! / chyrosran22
The practice sentence was: "Hello my name is Thomas and I'm typing on an Apple M0116 right now. This is really such a nice keyboard to type on, I realy love it. Hope you enjoyed the video!" 
Наука
Looks like Chyrosran got into a fight with an ergonomic ortholinear 10kg battlecruiser with how scuffed up his hands are. Remember mate, those "ergo-curves" redirect the force back to your body as a defense mechanism
Haha I recorded this video on a day I had previously been climbing. Scuffed hands like this are common when you practice climbing :) .
Petition to make his voice an option for Siri and Google assistant
But then you would need a subwoofer!
"Turn right in 1km or, in Imperial units, 1 hop, 1 skip, and 1 jump"
Only if the swearing is included
@@quasistellar I'd be laughing so much I'd miss a turn or exit every time
Me: Hey Siri, how's weather today?
Siri: Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiidiusly raining!
Hey buddy! Thanks for using the outro ♥️ love your vids
Thanks again, I've been using it for a few weeks now, it's really nice :D .
@Lady Fingerz I think Tom's friend Kyle put it together, he's quite the helpful chap, or in imperial tally ho and all that sort of thing.
@@wkg19591 No, Kyle made the intro and the channel art. Facu made me an intro a few weeks ago that I've been using as the outro since :) .
@@Chyrosran22 Ah, thanks for the correction :-)
Typing this on an AEK with SKCM Orange ALPS. I spent quite a bit of time searching for this keyboard a few years ago, and eventually found a local seller that bundled it with a Mac SE for $50 CAN. The keyboard is in wonderful condition and easily one of the best buy's I've ever made. It's an absolute joy to type on is easily my favourite keyboard, and fingers crossed I never have to replace it.
Jesus christ on a cross, this board unchains Thomas' fingers....
4:15 Thanks for the great explanation of what makes the alps tactile the best tactile switch out there.
Now if we could only get the R&D department at switch manufacturers to watch your videos, we would be set.
Supposedly we’ll be seeing tactile switches with tactile leaves coming out in the near future. I believe Zeal is working on one specifically.
The time of funky layouts and actually usable switches. Ah, the good old days.
Someone really needs to look into bringing these back.They sound SO good.
Just passing by to say that this video, like all the others in the channel, was great, that i love how informative and well put together the videos are, and that im thankful to you for showing me that keyboards go above and beyond what is mostly spread.
just what I needed after a long work day :)
I wonder how much WPM Thomas was typing in that typing demo, that looked really fast!
20 sec. typing demo with ~30 words typed gives us roughly 90 WPM which is pretty bleedin fast*.
*for floating hand typing as the cynical biscuit below fails to account for
offbrandbiscuit hey don’t judge. i can hit like 70 and that’s it mate
offbrandbiscuit for a floating hand typing style pretty fast. that was my max on qwerty (touch typing too) until I switched to mod-dh. anything above 60-80 and thats fast enough to be relatively productive.
I am also 90 wpm guy for english and 100-110 for my national language
@@offbrandbiscuit I average between 200/220 when redacting stuff, can I get a cookie? lol
So much loves for AEK1 with Orange ALPS. I will treasure mine for the rest of my life.
It truly is the best keyboard they ever made.
I’ve been using my M0116 connected to my Mac via an ADB to USB adapter for a couple years and I don’t plan to switch anytime soon. The arrow keys and home key bumps took a while to get used to at first but now I can type faster on it than any other keyboard.
i recently made a converter for an aekII and was quite surprised that the ADB plug is identical to a standard s-video cable
Only just discovered this redux video! I legitimately don't feel a reason to get Cherry MX Brown, so I'm glad there's actually tactile switches out there.
I really like the oblique font on these old Mac keyboards. I know Thomas doesn't, but I do. Maybe it's nostalgia.
I'm pretty sure you've already seen this, but recently Zeal has teased a new "3-in-1 switch" with clicky, tactile, and linear functions with a leaf spring similar to Alps. If these came out, would you review them?
Hopefully yes! :D
@@dibidibidragon3168 for anyone wondering: he has reviewed them
I like the new end card/outro
Just got my m0116 in the mail this morning, great timing!
Where?
@@AFellowQuestionMark I bought it off ebay for $60
Liked that last part before the typing demo ;)
For me SKCM Browns really do it for me. I currently have 3 custom alps boards (SKCM Blue, SKCC Green, and SKCM Brown) with a 4th one incoming that I'm planning on building with SKCM Oranges.
The SKCM Browns feel just so good to me. I also type faster on the browns more than anything else, even if they are quite stiff feeling.
New outro? I like it!
I believe this keyboard was originally designed for the Apple IIGS, and it essentially copies the layout of the Apple //e (its predecessor), line arrows, latching caps lock, control key on the left, and all that. And that big key on the top would have been the reset button.
wow that thing comparing to the browns might actually make me buy the alps. That is why I'm such a fan of topre. To me, most mx tactiles are just linears with a stupid disruption that makes it annoying if anything.
You know you're good when you have 423 likes and 0 dislikes on your video. Love this channel.
At one time I liked only clicky loud keyboards ( I'm on a gold badge Omni key today). Then I started listening to your reviews. When you did the orange Alps board I remember thinking that surely they couldn't be THAT good.
Then I got a near NOS AEK II. Oh my, they are that good. Thanks Tom :-)
AEK that is... must drink more coffee
Typing this comment on an AEK with Orange Alps I've received yesterday. What a pleasure.
They really do sound excellent.
Gosh, the ALPS switches are just marvelous.
What about programming the power button to work as a toggle that converts the line nave into an hybrid inverted t-nav by switching the down and the right key and /? key to work as the up key.
Among vintage keyboards, AEKs have in my opinion a nice advantage compared to other ones (not considering switches): the bottom row has the CTRL-Option-ALT keys that match the modern CTRL-Windows-ALT keys. Vintage PC keyboards lack a direct replacement of the Windows key, forcing you to be "creative" with remaps. Since I have tons of Win+ keybindings, I'd be quite happy to get an Apple keyboard.
It's quite interesting how much Alps got right that we just recently figured out. I always held that while it wasn't perfect and was polarizing, Kailh BOX Royals sort of accidentally stumbled on the basic principle for how to actually improve tactility: not just the shape of the tactile bump, or whether the bump is on the slider or the leaf spring, but rather the weight of the leaf spring that the slider is pushing against. Alps was in a better position to differentiate tactility because tactile leaves could be made in different specs and just slipped into the same design of switches, but because the MX switch tactile design has the contacts be the leaf spring that pushes against the tactile bump, it took decades before it became clear that increasing the resistance of the contact leaf contributes enormously to tactility across the range without needing to add weight to the main coil spring, hence maximizing the weight difference between the two springs and hence emphasizing tactility. MX switches will probably never sound as good as Alps due to the fundamental design of the parts, but I do think we could do so much better with tactility if enough manufacturers refined the BOX Royal's principle of using stiffer contact leaves to amplify tactility.
Kaihua / Novelkeys had the same idea; take the weight away from the coil spring and put it in the tactile element instead. It makes sense when you think about it, really.
@@Chyrosran22 The keyboard community really spent too much time barking up the wrong tree with modifying just the shape of tactile bump. Because the tactile leaf in MX switches are the same as the contacts, it served to hide its effect on tactility for the longest time. Had Kaihua not stumbled on it, I doubt the community would've ever figured it out. Zealios V2 are by all means V2 mainly because they're now taking advantage of the same principle of stiffer contacts. That we still haven't really obviated how this principle can carry over to every kind of tactile switch is probably the main reason why we're still not seeing it used by other brands to improve tactility.
@@Boyetto-san I strongly suspect the main reason we're not seeing it in other brands is because most companies don't want to innovate because their target audience are not interested and/or don't understand the workings behind this. The science behind tactility is nothing new; dozens of companies figured this out decades ago, and really, this should be easy to think of if you just sit down and think about it for a while. If you want increased tactility, you should make more of the resisting force come from the tactile element rather than the return spring. Cherry simply couldn't be bothered to adapt their design for true tactility, and most modern users don't even know of the existence of other types of switch. As long a people would rather lube this or stem swap that, looking at the same 1% or so of the switches out there, there is no reason at all for companies to risk time and money making something different.
@@Chyrosran22 Yeah, some people these days just expect tactile switches to be scratchy linears. If you saw LTT's atrocious blind switch comparison video, it was mind-boggling just how few of them had any modicum of good taste, and largely gravitated to MX Browns among the tactiles just because it's what's already familiar to them.
I've had my eye on a few classic Apple keyboards but after this I might just skip them all and look for the AEK and a converter.
Fun fact: Japanese Apple keyboards still have the reversed caps lock and control key position up to this day.
Honestly I'd prefer control key on caps lock, as caps lock is pretty much useless for me.
same bruh
Kinda want a review of the reviled Apple Design keyboard. :)
i rock an XT bord, and i gotten quite comfey with my contoll were capslock goes.
anyone else came here for his voice and the angry keyboard reviews, and now knows some basic keyboard lingo and has favorite switch types lol
Just got a 9/10 Apple llgs with Orange Alps, you really dont overhype them at all they blow every tactile I've tried out of the water feel and sound wise. So incredibly satisfying to type on, someone really needs to start making skcm like switches again MX tactiles dont even come close. closest I've tried are dark amber T1's and they are very tactile, but the type of tactility, and sound of course, just cant compare with Alps
"Sign me the fu*k up right now!" - This line had me in tears. Well done.
do a reveiw of awful knock off keyboards, with the most swearing as possible please
Yes, I second the swearing.
@@gyozakeynsianism He needs to d othe Keytronic Model M Knockoffs those make me so mad because i always think its a model m
Any plans to review/teardown the NK Sherbet clicky switches?
The line nav on this key is a lot more usable if you move the up and down keys in between the left and right, and then remap it with software. its not too bad! typing this with it now.
I've actually just purchased one of these beautiful keyboards and it happens to be in great condition! I however do need a converter do you have one that you would personally recommend to get this board up and running?
have you tried retrobrite for your keyboards? it can make old ABS look white/beige again
I have the same one, and mine has pretty bad key binding
>AEK
>Perfectly Usable
Mate out of all the vintage boards I own, the AEK is probably the most usable out of the lot for daily driver use. The inclusion of Command/Windows/Super keys whatever you wanna call it is a fucking godsend if you tend to use them a lot. I daily drive an AEK with Oranges on occasion and it's always a solid choice.
Same here!
It's a truly excellent board that holds up 100% to this day. If it weren't for its obviously vintage looks, it would blend in perfectly with modern keyboards.
I actually have one of these keyboards. It was my mom's old keyboard from her first computer, but I've never tried a good condition alps keyboard so I don't really if the switches are actually in good condition. Even if it's not in good condition, it's still just a nice keyboard that I haven't tried anything in the modern keyboards that could match the feel of the alps orange.
Woah.. When did you stop pressing the space bar with your right pointer?
do their older boards hurt fingers like their new ones? i'll find out now.
I really wish you could test Holy Panda switches which are said to be the best modern tactile switches.
Are there any modern switches comparable to ALPS orange?
No, unfortunately.
To me the only thing that matters is the feel and sound. It's astonishing to me that the popular trends right now don't even care and they use Cherry MX based switches with placebo level differences.
The custom keyboard community is very different from the general gamers. We do everything to maximize the feel and sound
@@ethanoux10 see, I disagree. I was talking about the custom keyboard community with the zealios and vintage blacks and so on and holy pandas and stuff. It's all just a Cherry switch. I think very few in the custom keyboard community maximize feel and sound, or they wouldn't be using Cherry designs.
@@funkmon I see where that attitude comes from but the switches do in fact feel and sound different. I agree that it is somewhat of a limited design but changing the shape of the slider and the materials used to make the switch has to do at least something to the switch.
@@funkmon also all other designs simply are unavailable. Alps clones are awful and there are no other switches that have the availability to complete
The difference between an unlubed bad Mx switch and a lubed good Mx switch is greater and has better results than just using a stock non Mx switch just because "lol Mx bad normie"
My hot take: I think control in place of capslock makes more sense in relation finger placement and control key combination
So Box Royals are no where near these as far as feeling goes?
Since I'm a Manjaro MATE Linux user, not having a T nav on my keyboard is a deal breaker as I go into my keyboard shortcut settings on my desktop computers, and bind my volume to Ctrl + arrow key up/down, and my mute to Ctrl + arrow Key right as most of my keyboards don't have multimedia shortcut keys, and it's faster than reaching up for those specific ones that do, or those that have an FN plus function key combo.
Man, I wish there was a modern remake of those. Matias has some really decent options, and the MX world is getting more interesting, but it’s almost silly that Orange/Salmon Alps are yet to be matched (to my knowledge).
Where did you source that photo of PS2 ports right next to an ADB port? Struggling to think of a computer that might have supported that...
IIRC it's from the DT wiki, I found it through Google Images. It was indeed a very convenient picture xD .
What's your take on membrane keyboards?
How come there hasn't been any attempt to emulate SKCM's tactile mechanism in an MX switch? Is it not possible? Is there a copyright/patent issue?
No, this is entirely possible, and has already been done ;) .
can you do a amiga keyboard pls
Just snagged one of these off of eBay (serial number 311106) for a semi-reasonable price (compared to some of the prices I've been seeing at least), and lo and behold... orange Alps! While it wasn't very clean, the switches hadn't suffered any noticeable amount of dust ingress. All I did was strip it down (desoldered all switches) so I could thoroughly clean the mounting plate and PCB, cleaned the keycaps, and greased the stabilizers, and now it's looking and feeling fresh. Only thing I don't like is the spacebar stabilizer, which is an absolute bear to get reinserted because they went with a half-height wire. Even with grease, it still rattles...
Anyway, I have now tried pine white Alps, 7-8/10 blue Alps, and 8-9/10 orange Alps. Now I just gotta give green Alps a shot and then look for NOS boards with those 3 again.
Sounds great. A little harsh on the clack but otherwise very nice sounding key switches.
I’ve been wanting to try orange alps for a while. On eBay I found a few of these Apple keyboards for the ~$65 price range, is this good? I would rather not spend too much on one of these if I could get them for a dollar at a junkyard.
$65 for Orange Alps board in good condition is a good buy, considering how slim the chances of finding good condition Alps board in junkyard/recycling centers is.
Don't these usually also have a homing bump at the nav cluster? Strange to see this one not having any homing bumps on the arrow keys.
I've seen lots of Apple keyboards with line navs come with homing bumps on the right arrow key, which leads me to believe Apple wanted touch typists to use their middle finger to find the keys, instead of your pointing finger. Everything seems to line up rather well when you place your middle finger on all the homing bumps.
Your right hand will cover the nav cluster perfectly, and on the home row you will be aligned the usual way.
Yes, this was the idea. I'm not going to comment because I don't touch type :p .
I was thinking of undampening my German AEK2 to get a feeling, and a sound, more similar to orange alps since getting a AEK with orange in Europe is almost impossible at a fair price. I already have a dumpened and linearized QZERTY Italian layout AEK2 that is smooth and silent enough for my office (when I'll eventually go back to work in an office) and a Model M that's almost too loud even to use at home (the wife is starting to complain about the sound since a type a fair bit for work).. Maybe I'll try for a white alps AEK2.. Not nice like blue alps, but better than nothing.
You'd think that Apple would make better keyboards over time, but no it's the other way around
Yep :P
In all fairness, this doesn't just go for Apple, but virtually all companies xD .
@@Chyrosran22 Yeah
@@Chyrosran22 apple became too simple
You need to review the NeXT keyboard.
i know this video is old now but i was wondering if you can remember how much you paid for this because i have my eyes on one on ebay!
Do you prefer SKCM Orange even over Neon Green/Browns for tactile Alps...?
Asking this as you probably are one of very few people who own a full board with all three switches.
Yes, out of the three I prefer these ones.
Personally what I care the most about is the key feel and sound. Everything else is secondary to me.
I love the old apple logo
How do I get this???
please review the Logitech G513 GX blue switch new keyboard from logitech
Prices rn STONKS
never seen thomas type this fast
The sound of the keys is one of the determining factors of me buying a keyboard. I want that sweet sweet clack.
Recently got my brother an original Model M. Since the model M is "Genesis" for the standard PC keyboard and that I like MacOS, thought about how about getting myself the Genesis of Apple Mac keyboards. When I was a kid, there was a movie called the Absent Minded Professor with a computer named Albert. Albert was a Mac SE with the M0116 as a keyboard and it was the computer I always wanted as a kid.
But Genesis of Mac keyboards is the M0110 or M0110A.
Which of the two would be the better choice since you reviewed them both?
The M0110 or M0110A? The latter, it's got more keys on it!
@@Chyrosran22 Actually I was thinking about in between the M0110A and the M0116 (since that was the keyboard used on Albert the movie). Although the second part had an AEK upgrade.
@@007Knightjp I prefer SKCM to SKCC, so the M0116.
@@Chyrosran22 Oh yeah... Sorry wasn't listening properly to the beginning of the video. You did say that orange alps were your fav switches.
Why do i want these switches soo bad
you NEED to review the gk61 with gateron optical yellow switches!!! its said to be the new fastest keyboard in the world!
Honestly I'll take one of your cherry mls at this point
(???) Thomas said he liked AMBER Alps the best before, so now I'm confused! What's your favourite tactile alps?
(I'm still on team Dampened Cream until I get Ambers)
PS sub 5micron tungsten powder exists for lubing these bad boys ~
I want to see you learning to use Vim. HJKL master race.
Now apple makes keyboards that don't even work properly lol
If u get one of those old models
Well that keyboard was made by alps so even then
When complaining about the location of the CTRL key, you need to remember these were designed for Macs, which used the Command/Apple key for shortcuts. CTRL on those Macs was mainly a mouse modifier that turned a click into a right click (since there was only one button). Once we get to the modern Unix-based Macs, CTRL is also used for emacs-style line editing, e.g. CTRL k to kill to end of line and CTRL a to go to the start of the line. A more valid criticism is that there is only one Command key, which is bad for touch typists.
So why does the AEK have it the other way around then?
Chyrosran22 The AEK you show already has the modern Apple layout, which except for the space bar row and Clear is like any other "normal" one, so I guess they were being compatible for once. It does have the second Command key.
@@francisernens1795 Yes, the first answer seems to be that with the AEK Apple was intentionally near-cloning the Model M layout. And since in 1987 the Model M wasn't yet quite the Default Layout, that wasn't simply the obvious thing to do. For example Sun keyboards didn't get a Model Mish layout until the Type 5 in 1991, while the 1987 Amiga 500 and 1988 NeXT Computer have keyboard layouts that are obviously Model-M-influenced but not as close as the AEK's. The explanation seems to be that the AEK wasn't (or at very least wasn't *only* ) meant as the top-of-the-line keyboard for the Mac but very specifically to increase compatibility with MS-DOS software. (Macintosh IIs certainly had the expansion capacity for coprocessor boards.) It's not that easy to find a reliable source for that, but I myself can dimly remember Apple brochure copy saying, basically, "the Apple Keyboard is great, it doesn't have any keys you don't need. [next paragraph] But if you do need MS-DOS compatibility there's the AEK." The $100 price difference 10:15 may even have been meant to push people towards the more Macintoshy M0116, though it could also just have been Apple showing its total commitment to Macintosh II price-gouging.
The other thing is that Apple didn't change _everything_ round. They moved Ctrl, but indeed the ⌘ key mostly takes the place of Ctrl on Macs, and they left that key right next to the spacebar where it had always been. And this is one place where Apple definitely didn't copy the Model M, with the result that the AEK comes closer to a modern 104-key PC layout than the Model M or (probably) any 1987 PC keyboard. In fact the Sun Type 5 and the Windows 104/105-key layout probably both copied from the AEK, though ofc the AEK wasn't the first keyboard with three or more mirrored wide modifier keys on the bottom row ... ruclips.net/video/oDozftThFMw/видео.html
Do you ever mod or lube your keebs?
Rarely, I try to avoid it as much as possible.
To me it's a like it or hate it switch. I was lucky enough to find a NOS a few years ago for a great price. As I type this on an M0116 right now, it does have incredible sound, but the tactility is very odd, almost like a plunger going down. The switch reaches a certain point then releases slightly. I want to like this switch, but compared to my favorite switch, Holy Panda, it doesn't match in terms of smoothness or even sound.
It's hard for me to judge typing speed, because it only has 2 key rollover, so if you're fast you will consistently miss strokes after completing a sentence and pressing the space bar.
The old school Apple style and logo are cool looking, and the typing angle is perfect. I don't like the locking capslock, when you press it the key almost feels broken.
What if you were left handed? You had to dasy chain it from the right to the left always?
No, they were bidirectional. A lefty could chain it the other way around with no problems :) .
@@Chyrosran22 That's actually pretty nice. I expected that it just works one way as it would be pretty Apple like arrogance saying "If you lefty, fuck you."
@@varszegimarcell that wouldn't've surprised me tbh xD .
Sometimes i wonder about a thing: why workstation vendors in the 90s (SGI, DEC, HP, Sun, Apple, NeXT, IBM, Sony) went from selling workstation paired with keyboards that were nice or decent (SGI Granite, Sun Type 3 with Foam&Foil, IBM with the Model M, HP (probably with PA-RISC workstations) with a Fujitsu leaf spring board, Sony NEWS with Topre, NeXT and Apple with Alps SKCM boards) to including shitty rubber dome keyboards (NMB dome with slider, Mitsumi KPQ, Fujitsu dome with slider or plain rubber domes).
Doesn't make sense to me, considering their workstations were often quite expensive (and probably well built) paired often with good CRT monitors (Sony Trinitron, NEC Diamondtron or Hitachi Superscan)
Shitty rubber dome keyboards are cheaper. This translates into greater margins, more competitive prices, or both. Simple economics, really. As long as people don't care enough about typing feel to pay for it, it's the only way things can go.
@@Chyrosran22 Considering the trend of a "touch-friendly" GUI with more mobile devices, I wouldn't be surprised if keyboards converge toward laser keyboards that illuminate on surfaces since people care that little about typing. Though there's a crowd that's hyper dedicated to typing practically/ comfortably which leads into those $150-800 keyboards with fancy metals for that "solid" feel. I'd rather have premium tactile switches on a polycarbonate/hyper durable plastic-alloy mixture to keep the weight and cost down a bit (any recommendations?).
Have you tried holy pandas?
I still don’t have a model M. 😂 The louder the better! “Loud keyboard save lives” (loud pipes save lives, motorcycle tail pipes) 😂😂😂
His hands made me imagine him in a fistfight with a gang of Fold 2000 users lmaoooooo
Has anyone pointed this out? His intro melody sounds like sans fight music
God bless Apple’s ALPS Keyboards. Now do PFU REALFORCE R2 Limited Edition.
Hmm. The arrow keys line was probably the most aesthetically pleasing for them and that's why they chose it...
have you ever clicky modded salmon alps?
Only a few loose ones!
Between 0:36 and 1:16, interestingly you did not mention sound alone as an important factor when judging keyboards (I mean, not when judging the switches as you mention later, but the actual completed keyboard.) At least for me that is quite an important factor, in fact, a guaranteed deal-breaker level important factor. User-unfriendliness of software when applicable is another one too.
Correct. Apple systems just don’t do numlock for some unknown reason.
Would you consider selling this keyboard?
huh. nice outro.
So yeah, AppleDesign Keyboard review when?
oh no not that one, it's gonna get a waning for that