Right? But this numpad was decent, and used Alps switches. More than can be said for now. Their stuff has always been expensive, but at least they tended to make quality, cool stuff in the '70s and '80s
@Barry Manilowa yeah but the right click and scroll wheel are... Actually useful. Also your stance is dumb. You don't tell a pilot that "Oh you don't need a million choices, a keyboard and mouse work best for anything." You look at Android's approach to nav keys, and it's simple. One button for multi tasking, one to go home, and one to go back. No swipe from the left side or double click bullshit for going back or to the app switcher. Just because there's more doesn't mean it's convoluted and dumb. It's like saying "Mate why bother with a full keyboard with all those buttons when you could just use a one button keyboard. Look at that right there, that's the best choice, no need for all this """complex""" stuff."
Yep. School loaned me a mac in middle school (504 plan) as a middle schooler, and that (along with the MacOS/Linux thing of chrome not updating) eventually led me to bringing a hand-me-down HP (2-in-1, so ~8 years newer than the '08 Mac).
The sound of these keyboards reminds me so much of school and childhood, it's a very emotional response. I got into modern mechanical keyboards after thinking about buying one of these with a usb adaptor but I quickly fell into the black hole that is this hobby with new boards. Thanks for the review. I still might try to get one with an adaptor.
The ping on the Apple M0110 is beyond belief. The audio on this episode came close, but in person I think it is even louder. Its like the keyboard case was made by an acoustic guitar builder.
4:30 There's one niche situation where it would still be useful. If you don't have a mouse for some reason, you can go into the Windows settings and set the numpad to output mouse inputs. So it turns the numpad into a "mouse" should your actual mouse explode and you're stuck with nothing but a keyboard for a week to get a new mouse.
With regards to keys mapping to the “wrong” keycodes, this might not be an issue in the keyboard. I had a Mac and an international keyboard and remember having to load/set the international keyboard mapping in software for it to work properly. Always enjoy your reviews btw!
Yes, that's more or less how they always work. Generally boards are much more consistent in different language layouts, though. Programming-wise, it doesn't make a difference of course.
OMG that ping! It’s like one continuous tone while you’re typing. I didn’t think it would bother me much, but in this case I have to admit that it does.
This might've been meant to be implied, but a slight correction (?) about Steve Jobs' intention when designing it without arrow keys: he never meant for USERS to be forced into using a mouse as far as I know, he just did it because he found navigating documents 1 line at a time with arrow keys really clunky himself and left them off to encourage software developers to implement mouse navigation into their programs
4:15 don't give them ideas. Next Tim Apple will bully you into using the clear key if you want to delete selected text at all and removing that functionality from delete and his good pal delete.
Yeah, anyone who learns the default HJKL in Vim knows that it's perfectly usable. Straight line is more comfortable than a cross or weird L shape imo, but probably not as comfortable as the now-standard inverted T. The best option is having ortholinear or columnar staggered alpha keys so that you can configure an inverted T right on the home row.
disclaimers... LOL. like'em, keep it up. one thing to note, a lot of the boards that were manufactured in other countries (japan, malaysia, etc..) had the mitsumi (white bottom) version of the skcc switch. there was also a SMK version (which was also the only version with double shot keycaps). there was also a shift in colors from the two tone beige, to the later "platinum" grey. as i've stated here before, these are some of my favorite sounding stock keyboards. i dare anyone to find a better sounding STOCK spacebar.
Little off topics... I recently received my new "TheC64" (full scale Commodore 64 reproduction). It came with a microswitch joystick. The stick was little hard to move, as it was stuck, So I opened it and... oh my god! The switches under the fire buttons are... WHITE ALPS???? Is it possible?
I don't know if it's just me, but almost all my keyboards seems to ping at least like that: model-M, model-F, and smk 2nd gen with cherry stem. Even on a topre board I have a key on which if you press hard you can hear the spring (it is satisfying anyway as it is the last number of my windows pin). Only cherry ones doesn't seem to suffer this problem!
My take away is that interesting symbol on the insert key on the IBM kb. I'm working on a custom layout to send to wasdkeyboards and I'm trying to put together a complete set of symbols for all modifier and non-alpha/numerical keys.
what is the name of the layout with numpad ? it really hard to find anything like that now days everyone just made TLK since it use less keys than this but still sell at same price
When you referred to the M0110 as the "grandfather of 60%s", I was curious because I thought the IBM Model F 4704 F60 (F62?) Was older. For some strange reason, information on the 4704 Model Fs has been removed from the DT Wiki!? You have any idea why, Chyrosan? It's been such a long time since I've been on that page.
Yeah, I've heard of it, but I don't own one atm. I mean, seems fine, just a budget keyboard. I wouldn't spend any money on a premium-brand keyboard nowadays if they have MX-like switches anyway tbh.
A few months ago, The Key Company did a small group buy for a geometric aluminium replica of the M0110A called “M0lly”. I pray they didn’t replicate that terrible ping as well!
You keep talking about these height restrictions in your videos where you talk about old keyboards, but you never really go into specifics about it, Im a little confused whenever you bring it up.
Keyboards used to be just any shape and size the manufacturer wanted, but eventually a standard was put into place that said a keyboard couldn't be over a certain height. I'm not personally sure if this was specifically decided upon for ergonomics, but older keyboards can be huge. Look at older(60's-70's) keyboards in comparison to even relatively newer ones(later 80's-90's), and there was an immediate, and quite considerable height change. If you watch Thomas' review of the Tesla MS1SS1 hall effect board, you can easily see just how huge old switch modules used to be, especially when compared to switches like Alps SKCL/M and Cherry's MX.
@@lordmissingno was this like an actual standard that said manufactures couldn't make a big keyboard even if they wanted to? Or was it just a suggestion that said it would be a good idea?
3:24 How did Steve Jobs react to Apple embracing the full-on IBM Model M layout? Not well: www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/841771/ . 1:02 Computers weren't yet mostly IBM PCs or compatibles in 1984 arstechnica.com/features/2005/12/total-share/5/ so the XT layout wasn't that dominant. (Though I'm not sure what to make of market-share numbers that don't seem to include any MSX machines or Amstrad PCWs ...) The starting point for the M0110's layout was probably the original Apple II keyboard, and there were plenty of Apple II variants and Commodore 64s in use in 1984, all with a compact layout. (Though later Apple II versions had indeed picked up cursor keys in time for Jobs to remove them again for the Mac.)
I have to say, the kid should have pressed property damage charges against Jobs for almost breaking an ALPS switch like that. And people wonder why Apple computers are so massively overpriced...
@@nasanierulastname2997 Hah, the combination of the signature and Jobs', hm, personal artistic statement means that that's now probably the most collectable Apple keyboard in existence. Steve should have charged! ;) Update: yes, it weant for over $74,000 at auction in 2020 apparently.
This keyboard is has to be the most time consuming to hook it up to my pc yet. As if paying $150 from japan wasn't enough I also have to buy a tinkerboy to convert it to USB from Philippine which can take month. Even IBM 5576 is faster to hook it up to my pc as the seller is kind enough to bundle it with USB converter. Still I can't wait to try those wonder Alps SKCC switches I'm sick of those Cherry MX switches and plain rubberdome keyboard sounds.
I still don't understand how people are comfortable with the "normal" enter key on an ANSI layout instead of a BIGass enter from the Taiwan style layout that takes up the entire space of a normal ANSI enter and the |\ key. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
IBM spend millions in study and design for a good keyboard, thats why the those are the best, and Apple didnt, and thats why everything is Apple, sucks big time.
their mechanical keyboards were good though. especially the AEK which was what I used to type this comment but you're right about everything else though.
bro the Corsair K63 Wireless pings WAAAAY more which ia btw why it's useless as a silent gaming keyboard which it is supposed to be with its cherry mx red switches
If the ping in this keyboard is amplified by the roomy case, just imagine how much worse it is in an apple IIe, which uses the same switches and a very similar layout, but with the keyboard merged with the PC case.
Seeing this made me realize that apple have't changed one bit and all their practices were always the same. They always made questionable decisions and made people pay super extra for the things they took
I like how you don't like imperial units. Yes they suck, people must make it normal units. Who decided that feet is exactly how imperial units says XD it is not at all
![Gunna - HIM ALL ALONG [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w7Wf0h1Q8a4/mqdefault.jpg)
god i love listening to his voice at 10pm
Same but at 11 pm
Same but at 3am
Wtf it's literally exactly 10:00PM when I'm watching this
$250 for a numpad? So what you're telling me is that it's an Apple product...
@@_Code.Pilot_ Not to be the devils advocate here, but that pencil is godlike.
@@_Code.Pilot_ nothing can compare to $1000 stand
and 100+ buck vesa adapter is some thing they made
@@flamestoyershadowkill that also broke macs because it's a shite adapter
Right? But this numpad was decent, and used Alps switches. More than can be said for now.
Their stuff has always been expensive, but at least they tended to make quality, cool stuff in the '70s and '80s
Typing on it sounds like you're making popcorn in a bird cage.
Noice!
Thank you for reinforcing the morally correct position that the one button mouse is an barbarous crime against humanity.
Forced upon us by the devil himself.
@Barry Manilowa Sure, you appleman
@Barry Manilowa yeah but the right click and scroll wheel are... Actually useful.
Also your stance is dumb. You don't tell a pilot that "Oh you don't need a million choices, a keyboard and mouse work best for anything."
You look at Android's approach to nav keys, and it's simple. One button for multi tasking, one to go home, and one to go back. No swipe from the left side or double click bullshit for going back or to the app switcher. Just because there's more doesn't mean it's convoluted and dumb.
It's like saying "Mate why bother with a full keyboard with all those buttons when you could just use a one button keyboard. Look at that right there, that's the best choice, no need for all this """complex""" stuff."
Yep. School loaned me a mac in middle school (504 plan) as a middle schooler, and that (along with the MacOS/Linux thing of chrome not updating) eventually led me to bringing a hand-me-down HP (2-in-1, so ~8 years newer than the '08 Mac).
The sound of these keyboards reminds me so much of school and childhood, it's a very emotional response. I got into modern mechanical keyboards after thinking about buying one of these with a usb adaptor but I quickly fell into the black hole that is this hobby with new boards. Thanks for the review. I still might try to get one with an adaptor.
The ping on the Apple M0110 is beyond belief. The audio on this episode came close, but in person I think it is even louder. Its like the keyboard case was made by an acoustic guitar builder.
I love loud keyboard I think this could be a good keyboard for me to type in a 3rd language that is not scripted in Latin letters.
4:30 There's one niche situation where it would still be useful. If you don't have a mouse for some reason, you can go into the Windows settings and set the numpad to output mouse inputs. So it turns the numpad into a "mouse" should your actual mouse explode and you're stuck with nothing but a keyboard for a week to get a new mouse.
Trying out a new headset and who better...Gods voice!
With regards to keys mapping to the “wrong” keycodes, this might not be an issue in the keyboard. I had a Mac and an international keyboard and remember having to load/set the international keyboard mapping in software for it to work properly. Always enjoy your reviews btw!
Yes, that's more or less how they always work. Generally boards are much more consistent in different language layouts, though. Programming-wise, it doesn't make a difference of course.
I just realized that i have apple’s newer full size aluminum keyboard in my room. I tested it and almost all of they keys are dead...
if it works, it is not apple.
OMG that ping! It’s like one continuous tone while you’re typing. I didn’t think it would bother me much, but in this case I have to admit that it does.
the legends on mine look more grey-brown than black, I really like it
Intro got cut out a little but otherwise superb video as always, Thomas.
Great keyboard review to start 2020 on your channel
I haven't heard someone curse so professionally before. I love it!
I have one of these! My great grandmother passed away a few years back and i got her old macintosh.
Man, been waiting since last decade for a new upload!
This might've been meant to be implied, but a slight correction (?) about Steve Jobs' intention when designing it without arrow keys: he never meant for USERS to be forced into using a mouse as far as I know, he just did it because he found navigating documents 1 line at a time with arrow keys really clunky himself and left them off to encourage software developers to implement mouse navigation into their programs
> Chyrosran22 [AKA God] has bestowed us with another excellent review
4:15 don't give them ideas. Next Tim Apple will bully you into using the clear key if you want to delete selected text at all and removing that functionality from delete and his good pal delete.
To be fair: Having the arrow keys in a single row is usable, if you get used to it. It's my favourite layout on a 60%.
Yeah, anyone who learns the default HJKL in Vim knows that it's perfectly usable. Straight line is more comfortable than a cross or weird L shape imo, but probably not as comfortable as the now-standard inverted T. The best option is having ortholinear or columnar staggered alpha keys so that you can configure an inverted T right on the home row.
Been eyeing these for a few weeks now
i love my numlock, i even on a full keyboard i often toggle it and use the numpad for navigation. i could live without it but it would piss me off.
disclaimers... LOL. like'em, keep it up. one thing to note, a lot of the boards that were manufactured in other countries (japan, malaysia, etc..) had the mitsumi (white bottom) version of the skcc switch. there was also a SMK version (which was also the only version with double shot keycaps). there was also a shift in colors from the two tone beige, to the later "platinum" grey. as i've stated here before, these are some of my favorite sounding stock keyboards. i dare anyone to find a better sounding STOCK spacebar.
Have you ever reviewed the mitsumi switch variant? I have one and I prefer it over the skcc variant. A very good second to skcc green.
No, but I did review the switches in another board.
"$250 for a numpad. Let that one sink in for a second." "Oh, never mind, that makes sense."
these switches sound like chocolate.
The M0110 and keypad together have the same layout as the Apple Lisa keyboard from 1983. 99% of those are tall KeyTronic foam and foil.
ah, here's come the inflation on these things price. XD
This thing pings.
when I got mine I noticed the ping sounded kinda like some of the sound effects in Dark Souls
Little off topics... I recently received my new "TheC64" (full scale Commodore 64 reproduction).
It came with a microswitch joystick.
The stick was little hard to move, as it was stuck, So I opened it and... oh my god!
The switches under the fire buttons are... WHITE ALPS???? Is it possible?
Noice, upon seeing the title of the video I impulsively plugged my M0110A
You should try to replace the springs with ones from SKCM white ones. Works like a charm and feels great!
12:25 N I C E
I don't know if it's just me, but almost all my keyboards seems to ping at least like that: model-M, model-F, and smk 2nd gen with cherry stem. Even on a topre board I have a key on which if you press hard you can hear the spring (it is satisfying anyway as it is the last number of my windows pin). Only cherry ones doesn't seem to suffer this problem!
My take away is that interesting symbol on the insert key on the IBM kb. I'm working on a custom layout to send to wasdkeyboards and I'm trying to put together a complete set of symbols for all modifier and non-alpha/numerical keys.
Thanks for you video! May I know if M0110 M0110A Kay cap same color?
It sounds like a popcorn popper!
Great vid. Not a ribbon cable.
what is the name of the layout with numpad ? it really hard to find anything like that now days everyone just made TLK since it use less keys than this but still sell at same price
Sounds like an Amstrad, but the switches are actually, you know... not rotting death with springs, it's an actual switch.
Does anyone know if there is a way/ where to buy a cable and converter for the m0110a?
"Jesus Fucking Christ Chomping Chupa Chups"
*subscribed*
11:48 THIIICCC AF
When you referred to the M0110 as the "grandfather of 60%s", I was curious because I thought the IBM Model F 4704 F60 (F62?) Was older. For some strange reason, information on the 4704 Model Fs has been removed from the DT Wiki!? You have any idea why, Chyrosan? It's been such a long time since I've been on that page.
No, but the F62 is precisely why I put up that disclaimer :p .
What are these keyboard height restrictions you speak of?
I love pingy boards when they're nice and well built like this or the NEC APC-H412. But not the abomination Amstrad keyboards.
Is the M0110 considered a kishsaver?
have you heard of the Tecware Phantom keyboard? what do you think of it as a budget mechanical keyboard?
Yeah, I've heard of it, but I don't own one atm. I mean, seems fine, just a budget keyboard. I wouldn't spend any money on a premium-brand keyboard nowadays if they have MX-like switches anyway tbh.
@@Chyrosran22 i see, thanks
A few months ago, The Key Company did a small group buy for a geometric aluminium replica of the M0110A called “M0lly”. I pray they didn’t replicate that terrible ping as well!
But.....the ping is the thing! :-)
So are we just not gonna talk about the monstrous shitbomination that is this 14.5u layout?
You keep talking about these height restrictions in your videos where you talk about old keyboards, but you never really go into specifics about it, Im a little confused whenever you bring it up.
Keyboards used to be just any shape and size the manufacturer wanted, but eventually a standard was put into place that said a keyboard couldn't be over a certain height. I'm not personally sure if this was specifically decided upon for ergonomics, but older keyboards can be huge. Look at older(60's-70's) keyboards in comparison to even relatively newer ones(later 80's-90's), and there was an immediate, and quite considerable height change. If you watch Thomas' review of the Tesla MS1SS1 hall effect board, you can easily see just how huge old switch modules used to be, especially when compared to switches like Alps SKCL/M and Cherry's MX.
@@lordmissingno was this like an actual standard that said manufactures couldn't make a big keyboard even if they wanted to? Or was it just a suggestion that said it would be a good idea?
@@dumdum7786 I'm pretty sure it was an actual standard, and companies/manufacturers were told they were no longer allowed to sell these taller boards.
@@lordmissingno yes, it was a DIN standard. The maximum height was set at 0.725 inches, which is where NMB Space Invaders got their name from.
Apple being Apple
3:24 How did Steve Jobs react to Apple embracing the full-on IBM Model M layout? Not well: www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/841771/ .
1:02 Computers weren't yet mostly IBM PCs or compatibles in 1984 arstechnica.com/features/2005/12/total-share/5/ so the XT layout wasn't that dominant. (Though I'm not sure what to make of market-share numbers that don't seem to include any MSX machines or Amstrad PCWs ...) The starting point for the M0110's layout was probably the original Apple II keyboard, and there were plenty of Apple II variants and Commodore 64s in use in 1984, all with a compact layout. (Though later Apple II versions had indeed picked up cursor keys in time for Jobs to remove them again for the Mac.)
I have to say, the kid should have pressed property damage charges against Jobs for almost breaking an ALPS switch like that. And people wonder why Apple computers are so massively overpriced...
@@nasanierulastname2997 Hah, the combination of the signature and Jobs', hm, personal artistic statement means that that's now probably the most collectable Apple keyboard in existence. Steve should have charged! ;) Update: yes, it weant for over $74,000 at auction in 2020 apparently.
Triggered. It's pronounced Eiichi. Anyway what's the point of that Enter key next to the spacebar?
The typing sound really painful
Didn't know I was gonna say it someday
Interesting little keyboard isn't it!!!! Cheers for the video bud :-)
Where are the function keys though
This keyboard is has to be the most time consuming to hook it up to my pc yet. As if paying $150 from japan wasn't enough I also have to buy a tinkerboy to convert it to USB from Philippine which can take month. Even IBM 5576 is faster to hook it up to my pc as the seller is kind enough to bundle it with USB converter. Still I can't wait to try those wonder Alps SKCC switches I'm sick of those Cherry MX switches and plain rubberdome keyboard sounds.
No internals shown :(
Oh hell yeah
Practice sentence?
I'll just never understand how anybody could be comfortable with such small return/enter keys on the ISO layouts.
We're not!
I still don't understand how people are comfortable with the "normal" enter key on an ANSI layout instead of a BIGass enter from the Taiwan style layout that takes up the entire space of a normal ANSI enter and the |\ key. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
doesnt ISO have a huge enter?
Whoaaaaa intense!
whats the top keyboard at 2:02
IBM spend millions in study and design for a good keyboard, thats why the those are the best, and Apple didnt, and thats why everything is Apple, sucks big time.
There's that, and then there's doing things against common sense like making a one-button mouse.
their mechanical keyboards were good though. especially the AEK which was what I used to type this comment but you're right about everything else though.
they are both good
BUCKLY BOI
bro the Corsair K63 Wireless pings WAAAAY more which ia btw why it's useless as a silent gaming keyboard which it is supposed to be with its cherry mx red switches
You should hear it in person :p .
@@Chyrosran22 why don't you just make a ping comparison video. stop being so lazy :p
@@cheater00 I just showed the two pingiest boards I have xD .
2:00 Is H.I.D. short for HHHHHIDEOUS!?
Thicc!
Tall cream mmmm... now I want a huge cake!
Call apples old mouse a toenail mouse
I absolutely love ur voice... ur vids are like a lullaby to me smh😂
If the ping in this keyboard is amplified by the roomy case, just imagine how much worse it is in an apple IIe, which uses the same switches and a very similar layout, but with the keyboard merged with the PC case.
we just love mac products don't we.
Your intro seems to have been cut off.
Seeing this made me realize that apple have't changed one bit and all their practices were always the same. They always made questionable decisions and made people pay super extra for the things they took
dope
That thing is a beauuuty tho
TURBOTHICC
I like how you don't like imperial units. Yes they suck, people must make it normal units. Who decided that feet is exactly how imperial units says XD it is not at all
Kinda borked the intro
Noice
thomas the tank engine
delete or the other delete lmao why is there 2
Holy hell I’m 16 barley time kinda early
Thanks for making fun of imperial units lol
👀
classic apple bullshit