Hype Culture and Nostalgia Are Hurting The MCU
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2024
- The Marvel Cinematic Universe has been relying on something a lot... cameos! Nostalgia! The hype of building up to a character we know, or build up for the sake of advertising its future shows and movies... is definitely hurting the MCU a bit, and Marvel stans aren't making it any easier. So, what does this mean for Marvel?
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If ya wanna see a video where I talk about MCU Tik Tok, let me know which Tik Tokers specifically, cuz I rarely use Tik Tok lol 😩🤌
I really liked when Sony made "in canon" TikTok account where Betty Brant just interviews Spider-Man's friends and all. Builds up more on story and promotes movie at same time.
DoomBlazer
DoomBlazer 🤓
Supes
@@dar9695 leave supes alone dude. He does nothing wrong
It feels weird hearing fans complaining when things aren’t connected or very little cameo. I rather see a story where our hero grow than a universe grow with underdeveloped characters
The thing here is, part of this comes from Marvel's original past marketing themselves, I remember when "Everything is connected" was being mentioned as a thing when ABC's Agents of SHIELD had to adjust its show to tie its events to Captain America: The Winter Soldier given SHIELD's collapse.
They don't use this specific marketing anymore -- at the cost of Agents of Shield characters never appearing in the MCU though -- but it seems the hype culture is trying to force this hard on people especially on Phase 4.
It’s sad too when you think about the fact that one of the strengths of Marvel is that the universe is so vast. Like silver surfer and the punisher exist in the same universe, that doesn’t mean I need to see them team up. Things can be connected without being connected
@@autolosss ,Also this phase has been meh.Did anyone asked for an Eternals movie or Agatha series.
I didn't like multiverse of madness for other reasons but the thing I love about it was that it kept it's focus on the heros and didn't bank on the cameos, it felt like the illuminati were the only thing Disney and feige had raimi shove in like what happened with venom in spiderman 3.
@@markmolino679 I would’ve loved an Eternals movie if Thanos was involved, but we’ll never get that now
Loved the Morbius cameo in multiverse of madness
I loved when he said “it’s morbin’ time” and morbed all over Dr. strange.
Dude he morbed Scarlet Witch so hard I can't wait for their rematch in Morbius 2: Morbius of Morbness
Yeezus pfp 💪
When Hawkeye confessed his love for Morbius in the final act before he sacrificed himself in the explosion of the bridge of tabitha, I morbed.
I posted the scene where he Morbs Bully Maguire on my channel 🧛♂️
That was always my problem. I felt like NWH could've gone so wrong so easily because of the load of cameos they have. I felt like maybe the focus wouldn't be on Tom's Peter. But thankfully it was a good like focus on Peter learning what it means being a superhero, that he will always risk those close to him to danger. And now everyone just wants cameos. Even Secret Wars, people just assume that it would be a cameo fuckfest. Like I've seen people say that it's like Endgame, but multiverse.
I think MCU fans have - in recent years - become super easy to satisfy.. like cameos are enough for them to dismiss bad writing and a weak movie - if a character or actor they recognise shows up.
Those cameos were the reason I didn’t like NWH and even MoM felt mediocre at best
Tjis is the same people who feel like MoM was disappointing, because they expected Tom Cruise and Tobey Maguire , and nowhere did they even make reference to that
This is why I hate normie fans being all about multiverse.
Well for starters, those weren't cameos in NWH.
this is exactly how I felt, watching the batman. remembering that a movie really could make me gasp and sit on the edge of my seat just off of good filmmaking rather than with cameos
Say it louder
I still think keatons batman is the greatest Batman, he’s amazing
The Batman was mid. Pretty boring. 7/10.
@@aliakram6675 cause ur used to the overstimulating crappy marvel movies
Batman is the example of what superhero movies need: Good plot.
Marvel just throws hype since the beginning, with a lot of productions
I didn't wanna bring in DC into the subject but whatever, I just wanna point out how Peacemaker utilized the JL cameo in its finale brilliantly. There's no hype bait and absolutely NOBODY saw it coming. They were more focused on making a solid story for the real stars of the show first and when those guys did show up they became nothing more than the butt of the joke, which might rile some fans up for sure but it worked in the context of Peacemaker's story where they had been setting up gags upon gags revolving the JL members (Aquaman fucks fish rumors etc.) and when they showed up for Peacemaker to deliver the punchline it was goddamn satisfying. The buildup was not to set up their appearence but rather the punchline itself, giving the joke a satisfying payoff, which I think James Gunn really excels at in his stuff whether it's the Guardians movies or his DC projects. Bottom line, solid story > cameos and senseless hype culture
James Gunn doesn't miss
Aqua man and flash ... Not JL
They were shadowed out lol
@@artin.sodaei okay I’ll give you that one lol
@@Browntable seriously, that guys is one of the best current filmmakers for comic book based stuff.
Totally agree.
"Tobey Maguire already beat his ass" should be the end of every Marvel movie.
You mean Bully maguire
This can be the MCU’s “somehow Palpatine returns”
100% agree
Marvel doesn't need cameos to make a good movie or story and it's sad to see people just expect cameo after cameo
Honestly, I would be happy if cameos ONLY happened at end credit scenes
The Marvel fandom have become so rabid at this point that it's scary.....
@@tailedgates9 I’m not necessarily an MCU fan but from what I’ve seen from it’s fans I feel like there is a 50/50 split on them one half of the fanbase are normal people that aren’t fanboys and the other half are fanboys that won’t accept anyones opinions if they disagree with them.
A time will come when no cameo would be interesting anymore...
@@PeterGriffin11 I feel like there's 3. Haters that no matter how good an MCU property is, they'll find something to hate on for content, or they love Marvel for the hate ig. Then like you said the fanboys who don't accept any opinions, and the normal viewers who really differ in opinions. So 2 extremes and a mid ground you could say.
Dude the best parts in Multiverse of Madness is when it's trying new things, such as fighting with music, possessing your own dead body, all of the horror scenes from them escaping Wanda, it's so good and that's what saved the movie for me because the hype of it was only on the cameos
The best part of that movie was the ending credits.
The best scenes in the movie was the one that is directed by Sam Raimi instead of Kevin Feige sticking his ass in.
The best part of the movie is when they finally give Steven some screen time and development, which was... hardly at all?
And then you use your brain and realise how much of a plot armor the characters had. Two of the greatest Wizards decide to fight with music, where we as an audience who are not wizards, have no idea how dangerous the music notes are. Wanda kills more than 50 people BRUTALLY and then stops to give an exposition dump on the audience instead of killing Strange and Wong, which leads to Strange escaping with Chavez. A dumb scene, while is cool looking or whatever, if you use your brain Strange and Chavez constantly escaping was stupid, instead of having the plot move forward on its own they forced it to move forward by pushing it rather than letting it flow on its own
@@jaypaul15 that's valid criticism dude, I actually agree with you, but my opinion isn't changed, because what I like about movies is enjoying the ride, it's a bummer it had this particular script, but Sam Raimi directing, visuals and also the performances save the movie a lot, I just hope Michael Waldron isn't in Marvel's future anymore, because without the other factors it could had been a really generic movie
You've got the point pretty well. The MCU has become an industry that needs to make as much profit as possible. They prefer quantity over quality, and they are abusing of cameos and hype to try to fake the lack of ideas and interesting plots
Also they have become woke and it will be a trouble for them in the future.
@@markmolino679 true
@@markmolino679 "become woke" We need the good old days of Chris Claremont's Unpolitical X-Men /s
@@GalazyProductions you know why those stories work? Because, even if they take inspiration from real life and talk about a certain group that faces oppression, anybody, I mean ANYBODY can relate to the characters on a basic human level. You feel their pain, you empathize, you understand their struggles and pain. Unlike modern writers who simply write their stories for a certain demographic who oftentimes does not even buy their product and alienates fans, shove their ideology down peoples throats, and won’t even take criticism into consideration because it’s “bigotry and hate”, no, it’s the inability to write a coherent story with likeable characters
@@cthulhutentacles4994 It just grinds my gears when people say Marvel has become "woke" its literally always been woke, I was making a joke making fun of that.
To be fair about Jake Lockley, even in the comics he’s the most violent and brutal of the personalities because he was essentially created by Marc coping with the people he has killed over the years. I do actually like that his existence is kept as a mystery throughout the show, but I definitely agree having his grand reveal in the post credits scene was a little wonky. But I totally agree that Phase 4 has been sacrificing its own quality for the sake of build-up and hype.
I never thought of Jake as evil either.
The writer said Jake is not evil.
I think he is just brutal,not evil
skipping the final fight was just stupid tho
But to be fair did they cut that in the comics.
I also liked that Jake was kept as a secret. I didn’t see it as an attempt at “building hype” but foreshadowing for a cool plot twist at the end. I just hate that the twist eventually became extremely obvious, cut away from action so many times, and could’ve been undone if Mark/Steven just…thought about the situation for more than two seconds.
Another aspect of hype culture that I feel is damaging all films not just the MCU ones is the need for spoilers. People want to know the entire film now before they even go see it. I made a conscious choice to avoid spoilers with Dr. Strange 2 and I wqas so happy that I did.
It was great going into a film knowing almost nothing about it. I think thats going to be my standard approach from now on. Even trailers are starting to spoil too much of the plot lines. I miss trailers that didn't give a lot of information but rather gave a feeling of that the film's tone and idea was going to be. (Force Awakens first trailer is still a master class in how to do this btw).
I saw Multiverse of Madness in theaters with my friend. It had been a LONG day and he was so tired that he fell asleep in his chair right about the moment where Dr. Strange and America are knocked unconscious by the tea. He woke back up in the middle of the fight scene between Wanda and the Illuminati. I quickly explained to him that they were some alt. universe Avengers and that's all it took for him to get back into the loop. He quite literally lost nothing and understood everything from there on. That entire cameo quarter of the movie could have been removed and the story pretty much stayed the same.
Yeah that’s why we need a Morbius trilogy to show everybody what a REAL comic book movie should be like!
SPITTIN
It's Morbin time
@@Browntable *MORBINN
and a morbius tv show.
morbius
morbius 2. 2 fast 2 morbius
morbius 3. more-bius
The trailers have been rather deceiving+the fake scoop accounts have been tainting peoples expectations
@Joshua Munn that sub is still alive.
I’m actually HAPPY that there weren’t more cameos in Doctor Strange, I appreciate that Raimi was able to keep the focus on Strange, America, & Wanda. I would’ve been mad if the Illuminati stuck around for much longer because it’s not their movie, and Raimi got to take them out in the coolest way!
Agreed
I was never keen on the cameos so my expectations were at ground level and coolest ways indeed were their demise.
But I ended up asking, should they be such specific characters? And as they are, must they be treated as plain canon fodder?
For example, in 'The Usual Suspect', Benecio del Toro's Fred Fenster only exists to be killed off, to establish a sense of threat. Del Toro, knowing this, came up with Fenster's unique speech pattern to make him more memorable. On top of it, his friend McManus mourned him and demanded that he be buried. In comparison, Captain Carter's catchphrase is exactly the same as Steve Rogers's and she didn't seem to care for the deaths of her comrades.
I enjoy 'Multiverse of Madness', but my appreciation is on Raimi, as well as the cast. The MCU formula was actually working against him; while not too jarring, it's still noticable.
He took them out in a lame way don't lie. Black bolt was cool but that's about it.
I agree. The way they were taken out was kind of a cool “oh shit.” moment showing Wanda’s power and kind of heightening the danger of her a little bit.
On first viewing I didn't care for multiverse of madness but it's growing on me.
I feel like Shang-Chi was the only movie where the hype wasn’t crazy, delivered its project well, & went about its way to the next thing without going crazy or relying heavily on cameos.
When I went into MoM, I didn’t care about the cameos and bullshit rumors circulating around the internet.
I just came into it wanting a campy fun Sam Raimi superhero horror film and that is exactly what I got.
W, same
Exactly the same my man
Fair enough if people didn't like the movie with actual valid criticism, but those people who called it trash simply because those bs rumours of tobey maguire or tom cruise not appearing were beyond stupid.
i was really relieved that it wasn't a cameo fest. kinda why I really liked the movie.
@@iammatthewdavid03 Can I ask you to name a movie that is simply a "Cameo fest"? I see this word thrown around, and as someone who wanted those crazy cameos, I would like an example of such a movie that doesnt work
Yes.
I agree 100%. Maybe it's a new strategy or something but they are loosing their originality and that hurts as a fan
I wouldn't say that.
evan peters' quicksilver standing in wanda's doorway is definitely one of the moments in the mcu
Ugh. Instead of using him to hint at multiverse crossovers and incursions, he was a boner gag.
Oof that is too real a criticism and I agree, even if the writing outside of it has still been pretty great for like No Way Home of Multiverse of Madness
Great writing in No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness? Brilliant joke.
@@Inquiring if you like infinity war or endgame you can’t say NWH and MOM is terrible because they are both more character focused than infinity war
@@phantom3146 That doesn’t make the writing better? The fuck
No way home is great but flawed(when you really get into the nitty gritty of it) 8/10. Doctor strange 2 is meh, 6/10 writing, like i know theyre trying to make me feel for wanda but i just cant, literal mess of a character, i could think of ways to save chavez, like i dont know, send her falling like what he did to loki until they deal with her(strange is literally op like that, it makes you want to think of what he cant do, magic should really be used considerately and conservatively, or else youll have plotholes), hell i think he couldve done that to wanda cuz even she needed assistance from wong to open a portal because she cant open portals(from what ive seen anyway, havent seen wandavision, all disney plus shows are meh anyway, moon knight kinda wasted), that aside it is better than black widow and eternals, ill give it that. The mcu is dipping so fkin hard rn, its honestly sad, the mcu really needs a hiatus of 2 years to think this through, have a clear plan, and stop hiring underequipped, unimpressive writers or literal activists to write and direct; give more freedom to directors.
Ill let no way home slide but MoM writing was pretty ehhhhhh. But Raimi saved tf outta it
Your are probably the most reasonable MCU critic man. Very unbiased and fair opinions which is very rare these days.
I’m just tired of it. I want a film that I’m going to look back on as one of the greatest superhero movies and have nostalgia for that. I don’t want a movie that copies and pastes those moments for fan service. I want a movie that creates new moments or if we’re going down the nostalgia road, at least make new moments with it.
P.S. 8:45 my source is that I made it the fuck up
Tired of what?
@@dylansharp8471 tired of a focus nostalgia bait and cameos, that focus on what made a previous story great, instead of making a story that focuses on making new moments for me to look back on in nostalgia and if it’s going to use nostalgia bait, don’t make it rehashes of stuff that was already done way better. Hope that clears it up
@@papabear6611 well, we are in a phase of MCU where multiverse is being explored and discussed, so expect more cameos and nostalgia shits in future MCU projects lmao
I remember when Marvel said that you wouldn't need to watch the shows in order to be able to follow what's going on in the movies but that very quickly went out the window with WandaVision... THEIR FIRST SHOW. If I hadn't seen a single episode of WandaVision, I would have been so lost and confused by Wanda's story in Multiverse of Madness. I'm to the point now where I don't even really care about watching every show they put out or even every movie. I really hope Thor Love and Thunder doesn't rely too heavily on the Guardians being there because that trailer actually got me excited.
RIGHT??
to be fair I will say I remember when that was said people were upset because they thought what's the point of the show if it's not going to tie in and we just ignore everything in the film itself it was one of the things people said about a lot of the Netflix shows and Agents of Shield as well
Tbh I still haven't watched Wanda vision but I didn't feel too lost. Felt just like reading a comic book.
Actually no Kevin Feige himself said that the shows will tie directly into some films when phase 4 was announced like 2 years ago!! idk where you heard that from maybe back when we had the Netflix shows cause they obviously didn’t tie in
For thor love and thunder i think guardians may be there only in the first 10 minutes then they will leave for their movie mision which is probably finding gamora
Great video. The memefacation of cinema is tricky. At LOTR screenings there’s now big laughs and giggles at “one does not simply walk into Mordor”, “they’re taking the hobbits to Isengard”, and “Po-ta-toes”. Obviously not intentional by the film makers, but it’s a weird meta experience.
I personally disagree about the Moon Knight criticism. I understand it, but I found the conclusion to Marc and Steven’s story to be the most important thing and for that to be satisfying in itself. The Jake Lockley reveal for me worked as a sad kind of coda where it’s more of a comment like ‘oh, they don’t even realise that they’re still enslaved to Khonshu…’. Just my opinion!
Happy it worked for you! Nw at all
@@Browntable and apparently moon knight ISNT going to get a season 2. So that sucks
@@pewpewpew7824 It won't get a season 2, but Disney can use whatever technicality they can to make a continuation. They can just make "another limited series" for all I care as long as there is more Moon Knight
@@pewpewpew7824 maybe a movie? or maybe jake will show up in a crossover
I wasn’t a huge fan of the fight scenes, actually no they were good it’s just how they were filmed and what not. But yeah if they stayed a little longer in the psych wards then yo….. awesome stuff.
Can’t get over Steven grant as a character tho, what a freakin dope character to ever grace the screen. I loved all the side characters too, they were super good and marc spectre is a great character
I definitely relate to this. As a die hard MCU fan who's watched every film, all the Netflix shows (fuck me, even Iron Fist), Agents of Shield, Runaways, most of the Disney+ shows and shit even Inhumans, I always look forward to new releases. However, recently I can't help but feel somewhat fatigued by MCU films. As you pointed out, their overreliance on cameos and hype is getting rather frustrating. On top of that, I feel that both issues are symptoms of the MCU's major issue (in my opinion), their overreliance on interconnectivity. I honestly think that the MCU is becoming so obsessed with references and call backs and cameos from existing characters that it's taking away from the individual stories. It would be cool to have the X-men in the MCU. It would feel cheap and kinda corny to have their origins tied to something like the snap. These stories should be able to exist on their own. Audiences should be invested in the characters and stories first before their used for crossovers and introduced to other big name characters. It also just cheapens and lessens the impact of those crossovers when they happen nearly every 5 minutes. Anyway, that's just my two cents.
I fear Disney is applying this strategy to Disney+ in general, especially Star Wars
@@fqwgads Agreed. Though I see it more in their Marvel shows on Disney+. I at least think the cameos in the Star Wars shows feel a bit more connected to the plot, but still an issue nontheless. But, I think the MCU is starting to crack under the weight of the success of their interconnected universe. I just want more standalone stories that are self contained and feel genuinely different and sticks to it's tone. Like, I'm really worried about Blade. I was so looking forward to that movie but now, I am worried they'll just stuff with MCU cookie cutter formula. I don't want Blade making quips every 5 mins. I'm not saying he can't be funny or have funny moments, he just needs to be allowed to be a serious character. I'm also really put off by the PG-13 rating 😥.
Iron Fist awesome what you talkin about?
They rely on cameos because we are in the MULTIVERSE SAGA don't you understand that? 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ It's simple, yet you can't even comprehend lmao how silly 😂😂😂😂
I disagree about the interconnectivity. Phase 4 is the one that has the most amount of seemingly unrelated, and sometimes completely unrelated plot points and shows. It's branching off from the 1st 3 phases when it comes to single narratives. Ms. Marvel for example is one of the BEST, and most solid Disney plus show because it was so unconnected.
I seem to be the opposite of most people in that I actually appreciate that Sam Raimi didn’t primarily use the multiverse as a way to shoehorn in cameos, but rather on alternate versions of Strange, Christine, & Wanda that reflect their journeys
I was thinking the same thing about Dr. Strange. I thought it was excellent and I think Sam Raimi gave it 100 percent but it felt like people were shitting on it simply because their fan theories didn’t come true and it was so disheartening. I like cameos as much as the next guy but when you judge a movie based on how much of a cameo fest it is, that’s when you’ve done something wrong. I even feel that the Illuminati thing would have been more effective if they hadn’t centered so much of the marketing around it and just let it be a surprise.
Even Feige himself felt the marketing did too much, and he's the guy who greenlit everything.
multiverse madness "excellent" ???? pffffff HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
My only nitpick with the film that I wished to see more universes, but it would have ruin the story arc of America unable to use her power properly
Dr Strange 2 and excellent, lol
And it's extremely infuriating when defenders of the movie just state that lack of cameos was the reason it was hated deflecting any real criticism about this shit movie.
The movie already has 5/6 cameos and wasted them, even if it had more such it would have still sucked because of the weak plot and characters.
Yeah Dr Strange was mildly disappointing, there were parts where I feel this movie shouldve had a longer runtime to flesh out the story
The reason I loved Eternals is that it’s different from the rest of the MCU and it told a story with a beginning, middle, end and character arcs. Which I realize shouldn’t be too much to ask for but it somehow is now. And I’m not even sure if it’s a good movie. But it is a whole movie.
I agree same with Shang Chi they're my favorite two movies in phase four
but the problem with Eternals and other MCU films is that there is no stake. Everything is an End of the world scenario and we the audience knows that that wont happen.
omg Eternals is absolute shit I get what u are saying but man that movie was bad
The Eternals do have it's own problem, but at least it's not plagued with 'Nostalgia', 'Hype' and 'Theory' bait like newer MCU films
That cringe doesn't earn to be called a movie it's cringe
Hit the nail on the head. What a freakin disappointment for the first appearance of Reed Richards and Charles Xavier in the MCU
I don’t see the hype for Krasinski as Mr. Fantastic, though his wife would KILL IT as Sue Storm.
I don’t think it was super disappointing, but I get why other people do. I don’t think it’s a “waste” though because it was just their universe’s versions of them that died, but the MCU (Universe 616) version that we’re bound to see are completely open and untouched. We can absolutely see more of them, this was just a creative way to have these actors in THIS movie and gave them some fun, Raimi-esque deaths. I’m just so incredibly grateful we got them at all and I’m looking forward to hopefully seeing more of them in the future (we know 100% they’re making Fantastic 4 and things with mutants). I’m just happy they didn’t take over the movie and Raimi was able to keep the focus on Wanda/Stephen
@@mr.moviemafia even considering that they’re alternate versions, they looked like complete idiots. Their whole role in the story was to be fodder for Scarlet Witch. I didn’t need a full deep dive on the characters, but at least make us excited to see them. They looked incompetent mentally and physically
they didn't belong in that movie and it shows
i loved seeing john krasinski in MoM, but Ioan Gruffudd deserved to be the mr fantastic variant
Quality over quantity. I’ve rewatched Peacemaker more than I’ve seen Moon Knight, Hawkeye, Loki, Falcon & Winter Soldier and WandaVision combined.
Peacemaker is the best of them
Not hearing any hype or anything on moon knight means i appreciate the show for what it was, story wise it was great, having a bunch of gore would have hindered the story
This is probably why Shang-Chi is my favorite movie out of Phase 4, doesn’t really care about hyping up cameos and making audiences go wild, it just wants to be a good, fun movie with sick fight scenes and good character development.
I liked the way they ended moon knight, I'd much rather they use the battle to hype up jake then have another typical mcu battle, and I think it's done well in that the first half of the episode it makes it seem like Marc has got it figured all out, but this moment shows that his struggles are far from over
I remember telling myself Tobey and Andrew wouldn’t be in No Way Home just so I wouldn’t be upset if it happened. I was worried because everyone thought they were in that the movie would be hated for not having cameos. Thankfully they were in the movie but as actual characters for the story.
People should be hyped accordingly
It's always a good day whenever Browntable uploads a video about the problems of the MCU and how they can fix their mistakes.
Yoo, was waiting for someone to cover this! Great Video!
I’ve been saying this about MCU stans for a while now. Even before we knew they’d bring back old Spideys and their villains in NWH, people treated it as gospel truth despite there being ZERO indication of it. I remember fan art for the three always put Tobey front and center and Tom was off to the side with Andrew. They didn’t care about Toms story, they just wanted more of what they’ve already seen. Then not only did people complain that they didn’t get all the cameos they were “promised” in MoM, they claim that the Illuminati was wasted even though it’s a different universe that we’ll probably never see again and they have every ability to bring them back in some capacity.
This trend is getting out of control. Now I’m looking at Star Wars and I’m seeing some parallels that I really don’t like. Fans not being content with seeing how the actual story plays out and just endlessly speculating about whether or not Glup Shitto is gonna make an appearance.
Also PLEASE do a video on TikTok, they’ve dodged criticism for too long…
Sounds more like a criticism towards fans than Marvel themselves.
With or without cameos, MOM is still a messed shitty film with poor writings and story
Another big marvel/Disney problem is the overwhelming amount of “meh” to “ok” content relentlessly being pumped out
This is so fucking true. First time i watched Multiverse of Madness the unrealistic hype killed the movie for me. On a second viewing i was able to appreciate the movie for what it is instead of for what some unrealistic rumors made it to be
It's your own fault if your raising expectations beyond the scope 🤷♂️
I can agree. I really like DS:MOM now more than the first time I watched it.
I've been saying this for a full 2 years now, I'm SO glad someone's bringing the issue up. It ain't just Marvel, it's all of Disney's big IP content (Star Wars etc.). Luke Skywalker's appearance in the Mandalorian opened Pandora's box, and WandaVision sealed the deal.
I actually find myself agreeing with you on a lot of points here. Looking back at No Way Home, the beginning really didn't feel very entertaining and I thought the whole idea of turning the villains back into normal people felt a goofy and I was wondering why they just went along with him as Doctor Strange isn't there. Of course the rest of the movie was really good, but it did get me questioning if the movie would've been great on its own merits had Tobey and Andrew not been in the movie. I'm not saying I hate No Way Home, but the beginning really had a rough start that wasn't the most engaging.
Speaking of Moon Knight, one thing I didn't like about the series, even though I liked it a lot, was that they could've dedicated an episode of Harrow being Moon Knight, his brief history of sorts.
Literally MCU has received a drop in quality for the shows, but to some folks who either don't have Disney+ or haven't seen those Marvel Miniseries on the service they would feel confused and get lost on what's happening whenever they watch the latest MCU film. Not to mention it seems that only WandaVision, Loki, What If?..., Falcon & the Winter Soldier, and Ms. Marvel are so far the only Disney+ series that tie to future MCU films the former three ties to _Dr. Strange and the Multiverse of Madness,_ and the latter two ties to the next Captain America (starring Falcon) and The Marvels.
Plus, it seems that Marvel Studios seems to be focusing more on Quantity of films and shows, than on Quality.
'Literally MCU has received a drop in quality for the shows...' A serious drop in my book!
'Plus, it seems that Marvel Studios seems to be focusing more on Quantity of films and shows, than on Quality.' Exactly!
Oh please.
@@dylansharp8471 Not sure if this is directed at me or to the other user?
Jake locke was a cool twist for me as is was more of a sad twist, as marc and steven are still trapped by khonshu and is the perfect set up for a season 2, since we've already explored marc and steven's relationship, so the next logical point is to see their relationship with jake.
Honestly, this video completely sums up why I have lost most interest in the MCU. I used to be a super fan, but after a while I realized this franchise was more interested in setting up future installments and building hype to fuel excitement and ticket sales. This is personally why I felt The Batman was so refreshing, it was a comic book movie that slowed down and explored a layered complex story with layered and complex characters. Batman made me nostalgic for the right reasons, it reminded me of a simpler time for super hero movies. Back when these types of films weren't guaranteed successes, and had to have well written scripts and sometimes phenomenal performances (there's a reason people still talk about the Dark Knight and Heath Ledger's Joker). Marvel these days just waves cameos and hype in your face. Honestly, the sad thing is that it's working, and we will probably see less and less story and character driven movies in the future for the sake of fan service.
"and we will probably see less and less story and character driven movies in the future for the sake of fan service"
Or the opposite.
You're the best man!!
I like to think we’ll get more No Way Home/DS2-type movies where the hype of these cool characters doesn’t get too much in the way of a still well-told story, but with how Phase 4 is shaping up, I don’t wanna hold my breath
Edit: as a former RWBY fan, I appreciate the comparison because I think it highlights my grievance a little more
what is rwby?
This is part of the reason why I pretty much dumped the MCU off my movie watching list after End Game. It was an end to a story, but more importantly they were playing for spectacle. That final fight scene where all of the portals open up and all the people walk out... That was done specifically as a cheer moment not as an important part of the story, and it wasn't even subtle.
"Watch product and be excited for more product"-Red Letter Media.
also i think this is why the reaction to Batman was the way it was, either complete love to how its own thing it was like we haven't seen in a superhero film for a long time now, or just complaining that it doesn't have "cheer" moments. this feels a lot like when sitcoms were so reliant on the laugh track that the one without didn't perform well, i mean the office was almost booted and arrested development did get booted. it's sad
Since I had to wait multiple weeks to see Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, I got exposed to a lot of the discourse and was able to appropriately prepare myself for what the movie was actually like. I knew things like: Raimi’s direction is VERY overt and your enjoyment of the movie can live or die on whether you like his style; the tone was more in-line with “Evil Dead 2” than “Spider-Man”; the movie was fast-paced with a simple plot; Strange was a more passive character that allowed for other characters to develop; and the Illuminati cameos were VERY brief (but pretty substantial). Knowing all of this going in, my expectations were humbled and enjoyment of the movie was exponentially increased. I also honestly appreciate that this movie didn’t get bogged down with shoving endless multiversal cameos down our throats, which they very easily could have done. Instead, Sam Raimi was able to use the multiverse in a more meaningful way by showcasing other versions of Stephen Strange & Wanda Maximoff to better fit the thematic arcs that they’re going through and enrich the story.
But did he develop himself?
You touched on so many things I've been thinking of for a while now, glad to know I'm not crazy.
I decided to stop watching ads or engaging with fan theories and leaks before age of ultron came out and I really do think it’s helped me prolong my enjoyment of the MCU
He shouldn't have said "I'm something of a scientist myself" in the first place, it was an unfitting cheap insert that didn't add anything of importance
Literally
I now feel guilty for being enticed to watch Multiverse of Madness because my brother told me “you wouldn’t believe who shows up” which convinced me to watch it, but I still really enjoyed the story, cinematography, the horror elements, and especially how the characters where treated over the neat cameos!
When my sister told me i had to watch every single spiderman movie ever made in order to watch nwh I said nope and still have not watched it, because when I want to watch a movie I don’t want to do extensive research beforehand, and unfortunately this is exactly why I just haven’t been watching the new marvel movies or shows, it’s too complicated for me, someone who is not wholeheartedly invested in Marvel
Your hair always looks great!
You use humor so well in your content! The part where you called Kevin Fiege had me crying😂
I agree with the general sentiment of the video, however I think the climactic scene in Moon Knight works super well in context. Yes we miss out on yet another cgi battle but we get a stronger sense of confusion and being lost, kinda like a horror movie.
funny thing is spiderverse is full of little cameos and references but you can totally watch both movies without knowing a single one of them and still thoroughly enjoy yourself. atp mcu is a series of cameos masquerading as movies and tv
I was so baffled people wanted MORE cameos in MoM. Cameos that years later no one will care about. Like doesn't being a good story matter?
Kevin Feige sounds so chill
2 browntable videos only 5 days apart! This is a blessing!
Hope you enjoyed it!
Jeremy Slater himself said that Jake Lockley won't have an Evil alter trope and also he said making like that would be least interesting part of the character.
not going to lie I've recently become addicted to your channel, love the way you document your thoughts on subjects, keep it up
Thanks so much, it means so much to me seriously :)
imo one of the worst parts about the Jake Lockley build up is that Jake isn't even 'the violent alter' in any of the modern moon knight runs except for in the Bemis run and the Bemis run is awful. Obviously this isn't as bad as playing into harmful stereotypes about people with DID but they're pulling from such an out of character and odd source that it makes me extremely worried about how they'll handle the character moving forward
EXACTLY
@@Browntable Lemire's Noire-Protagonist Lockley is best Lockley
Fuck off this isnt the comics. The MCU will always change things.
I actually kind of like the cut away in moon knight as it's a unique subversion to other superhero shows, and we still got a good emotional scene when Marc tells Konshu to kill Harrow himself
it’s crazy how we agree so much, like our opinions are always the same when i watch your gudeos
I like to think the awkward silence at the fan service moments in nwh add to the comedy of the scenes. Like weird shit is happening and everyone is just taking it all in.
I agree with the majority of the video but with 3:05 how is having an evil alter ableist in any way?
This alter of Mark has been established in the comics for a good while now, and having done research on DID out of curiosity people who suffer from it can have alters that, while not necessarily cartoonistly evil, do try to make the other alters' lives painful in any way that they can and can be absolute bastards, whereas other alters are calmer/kinder
Ik I'm not the best spokesperson considering I don't have DID myself but imo showing an evil alter for a character with DID isn't ableist at all, barring the context of the show its a very real thing that some people deal with, and representing something isn't always about being super positive about it and pretending like it's God's gift to the world. There are negative aspects to these kinds of things aswell, and it's important that they get represented just as much as the good stuff
Yeah that was a really retarded point on his part
Jake Lockley is being mischaracterized by people who don’t actually read Moon Knight comics or people who’ve only read up on Moon Knight through RUclips videos as a violent killer, like this unhinged alter, right. Which isn’t the case, but main thing is doing an “evil alter” reinforces negative DID stereotypes. But hey we saw him only briefly so this could be reworked, but the dude was like… smiling before shooting Harrow so
It's just that that's such an overblown and done before stereotype to the point that if someone met someone with DID on the street I wouldn't be surprised if they immediately asked "so which is the evil one??" Or something like that.
@@Browntable bro also murdered at least a dozen innocent hospital staff to get harrow
@@Browntable But the thing is, most DID cases (t least the ones that land you in a mental insitution/or prison) have an "evil" or more "mean" personality. Moon Knight is just shedding light on that. And also theres Steven, a kind hearted person.
"Will I watch every show?" _(shows Agatha: House of Harkness)_ *"No."* Same. 😂
I hace noticed this trend even on myself. Now, when I go to see a new Marvel movie, I have expectations about cameos, connections and post-credits scenes, more than with the movie argument itself! It's pretty crazy if you think about it, you are buying a product expecting what future products are coming, instead of 100% enjoying the one you just paid for. Excellent video 🙌🏻
Peggy carter saying the “I can do this all day” line was definitely the final straw
Ok
When you do all those hype and nostalgic correctly and precisely
You get
Spider-Man no way home
Everything about the hype and nostalgic was point on
Nothing felt rushed or anything
And it was not just fan service
It had implications to all 3 Spider-Man
And they were in the plot
Man Spider-man 2 was my first Spidey film and i was Crazy From that time
I was so satisfied with everything they did
And that how you balance out the hype from the noise
definitely agree. I'm glad that someone finally said it. thank you so much.
also. the same thing can be said about star wars these days.
You articulated every complaint I had but just couldn't put my finger on. Bravo!
what you said about multiverse of madness is the problem i had with everyone complaining about the movie. they tried to watch it based on what tik tok and twitter was telling everyone and I just sat there wanting to enjoy a good movie and was getting so frustrated with everyone hating on it
Jake Lockley isn’t your average “evil alter” trope, he’s just on the opposite end of the spectrum as Steven and fiercely loyal to Khonshu. In fact, the Jake reveal was generally well received among fans, since he’s a really cool character from the comics.
Fans of the show not the character
Yeah but the show writers butchered his personality and ruined how General Audiences will perceive him in the alleged second season. This will also affect the comics going forward too because of the synergy the MCU has had with the comics.
@@quicklyform5162 not really. This season was about marc and steven. Season 2 will probably be about marc and steven and jake. The only problem was that the final fight was basically skipped and we don't know what happened.
@@kanishkdeshpande6 you don't know his personality. He's just very brutal, which he's always had been. And I think the showrunner said he's not actually evil anyways.
@@projekttaku1 I've read about Moon Knight a lot but go off ig. He's not as brutal as the show makes him out to be. Also, whatever comic run you think he's portrayed as brutal is probably a character assassination of Jake. Jake isn't brutal, he's a noir character. He's not brutal, it's an ableist depiction of people suffering from DID.
The things i dislike in the MCU its the comedy scenes that dont need to be in there and every MCU film just an advertisement for later installments.
Great vid, I think you make a great point about each cameo being there for the sake of nostalgia, not to mention how wasted and ingenuine the last est ones have been.
i have no idea how I’ve never came across your channel before. great vid you definitely gained a sub man
I feel like one of the biggest issues with the MCU right now is it is getting too mixed together and convoluted to the point where it can feel like a chore to watch all these movies/shows just to understand another movie/show. That’s why, despite its flaws, Moon Knight is my favorite show thus far. I’ve been able to recommend it to friends who haven’t watched a single MCU movie and they’ve loved it and been able to follow along perfectly. That said, the fact they originally advertised the show as a limited series (whether or not that remains true) makes the decision to delay Jake Lockley SO confusing. I think I’d be a lot more satisfied with the final episode if there was some sort of confirmation that there would be a second season to pay off everything they set up during the first season. Otherwise, like you said, it feels like building up hype for the sole purpose of building up hype. Those complaints aside, Oscar Isaac is 10/10 and episode 5 is the best episode to come out of any Disney+ show imo.
Edit: Also, god I hope if they roll with another season they don’t follow through with making Jake Lockley an evil alter. Like I said, love the show, but the thought of evil Jake just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
I agree with you.Even though they butchered my boy Moon Knight badly to the point that I couldn't finished watching that series.
@@markmolino679 I mean, how much did they really butcher him?
I actually think the showrunner said jake isn't evil, just brutal.
@@markmolino679 I’d recommend watching episode 5 at least! Some scenes felt straight out of Lemire’s run
I call this shit "Clap Culture" with friends. You don't wanna watch the movie, you just wanna wait until the big cameo appears and you clap at the screen.
This is hands-down *the* best video I've seen on what the MCU's been doing recently. I'm in very much the same camp, I enjoy these movies and and shows for the surface-level entertainment value they provide. But while I'm watching, I can't escape the feeling that all the nostalgia-baiting and cameos feel very much like they were conceived in some Marvel Studios boardroom by committee and only included to meet some mandate the filmmakers are given to appease the more hype-orientated portion of the fanbase. That being said, thanks for the great vid!
As soon as you mentioned tik tok, BOOM, unskippable tik tok ad!
Another issue is the bait and switch - many of these movies/shows aren’t actually about the title character. They are back-door intros for replacement characters and it’s hurting the story telling since every story is actually about an upcoming story.
"many of these movies/shows aren’t actually about the title character"
Wrongo.
I kinda regret hyping for John Krasinski for Mister Fantastic anyways.
He was straight up not good and bland as Jim in the role
@@googleleavemynamealone9145 Who's Jim?
@@cybersoldierforever his character from the office
Hey that was me
The Call between Mauricio and Kevin was absolutely Comedy Platinum. I'd love to see that on his Shorts Channel.
Couldn't agree more with this video. It's exactly the reason why I stopped consuming fan thoeries on RUclips. Just gives me an expectation coming in to the movies and when expectations aren't met, it clouds your judgement of the movie itself. I don't even watch MCU trailers these days. Even those can be misleading. One teaser trailer is enough. I know I'm still gonna watch the movie anyway. LOL. And don't even get me started with the hype-ing they're doing in the middle of the movies. They used to be subtle with it like you're gonna have to watch the movie for the 3rd time to notice something. You had to pay attention to understand references and call backs. But now it's just too blatant. I just hope they don't stay this course and go back what they were good at. Good story telling with little crumbs of references.
"Good story telling with little crumbs of references"
Don't they STILL?
I miss when shows had ongoing story’s within ONE episode rather then making that story the ENTIRE season.
D+ shows are basically movies cut into pieces lol
Definitely one of the reasons why Wandavision was kinda painful for me to watch
Since when?
This video was well thought out! It was awesome to hear your thoughts about the mcu as of now! It’s good to see a different angle and perspective of the hype culture and cameos in the mcu!
I'm surprised you don't have more views, this video was great. I totally found myself agreeing with everything you were saying. I've been noticing that the MCU isn't quite as engaging as it once was but I couldn't really figure out way. This definitely explains what's going on.
I’d like to add that the number of episodes also damaged some of the D+Shows, specially Hawkeye.
It’s bonkers that in a show about the Avenger we know the least we barely dive into his childhood/past and deeper into his ptsd/trauma after basically loosing his “family” twice (first his real family and then the rest of the Avengers). Just two more episodes of Clint dealing with that and replacing the Kingpin cameo reveal for actual build up would’ve solved most of my issues with the show.
"and deeper into his ptsd/trauma"
I haven't seen the show in it's entirety, but it seems like it does a bit since Clint's time as Ronin comes back to him with things like Echo.
Now I wonder if No Way Home should've happened. Long term, it's impact on cinema will be detrimental.
It's tragic bc I love that movie for a lot of reasons but I wish it could be isolated bc you're right, I think it's gonna do a lot of harm.
@@-Teague- I love that movie too. Perhaps the nostalgia would've been calmed down if it was Tobey, Tom, and Andrew facing off against new foes instead of the returning villains.
@@dingkong5034 I mean, I'm biased bc I am nostalgic, but I was fine with the nostalgia stuff. I felt like most of it worked really well in plot even beyond whatever it gave the audience. That's the thing about NWH, it's just as much a well told (even if messily written) story as it is a nostalgia trip. But with stuff like Hawkeye they are sacrificing the plot for that nostalgia or hype or whatever, and that's where it becomes a huge problem imo. But the thing is, stuff like this is controlled by producers, not storytellers. So they see "cameo=big money" and just go for that. And that's when NWH's impact becomes a bad thing.
I have felt so iffy about most of the new marvel stuff and I think this describes a lot of my issues that I couldn’t describe before, great video
This video is what we have all been thinking in the back of our minds