SUBSCRIBE, LIKE & SHARE if you want Clean Energy & Electric Vehicles to be the norm. Robert has been a fan of the ID.3 since he was the first British journalist to drive it in South Africa a few years ago. It was a game changer car then, and remains so today, but is the Pro S long range model worth investing the extra money in? Robert takes it on a road trip to find out. The ID.3 Pro S comes with a 77 kWh battery delivering an impressive range of around 280-300 miles on a single charge making it comparable with the long range Tesla Model 3. But here's the question - how many times do you drive 280 miles in a single journey? The ID.3 is efficient, easy to drive and Robert even prefers it over the Hyundai Kona (don't tell Mrs L), but would the standard model with the smaller, cheaper battery suit the majority of people better? One thing is for certain, the ID.3 remains an incredibly impressive EV. Make sure you are subscribed then enter 'The Great EV Giveaway' for your chance to win an EV for a year and lots of other fantastic prizes fullycharged.show/EV-Giveaway/ Fully Charged is 100% independent thanks to RUclips Memberships and Patreons. Without you this channel wouldn’t be possible! If you’d like to help support the Fully Charged channel and its mission: Become a Patreon: www.patreon.com/FullyChargedShow Become a RUclips member: use JOIN button above Subscribe to Fully Charged & the Fully Charged PLUS channels Buy the Fully Charged Guide to Electric Vehicles & Clean Energy : buff.ly/2GybGt0 Browse the Fully Charged store: shop.fullycharged.show/ Visit our LIVE exhibitions in the UK, USA & Europe: FullyCharged.Show/events Subscribe for episode alerts and the Fully Charged newsletter: fullycharged.show/zap-sign-up/ Visit: FullyCharged.Show Find us on Twitter: twitter.com/fullychargedshw Follow us on Instagram: instagram.com/fullychargedshow Timestamps: 0:00 ID.3 Special 0:40 Blown away 1:30 Glitchy software 2:35 Long drive 4:05 Off we go 4:27 Comfort break 5:38 Crew camera fitting 6:00 Game changer 7:03 Tight tandem 7:48 Range talk 9:26 Electric experience 10:42 Who needs a car like this? 11:07 Weather dependent 11:33 Model 3 comparison 13:30 Auto slowing 14:02 Kona comparison 15:29 Couldn't be bothered! 15:59 Is bigger better? 16:34 Speed stats 17:23 Delight to drive 18:44 Subscribe, support, join
think about it 1000 mile range means you can use the car as a back up generator for the home if you set it up... would love to see you do that experiment, using car to run your home...
Well, regarding the range. A friend of our is a farrier and he travels almost 4/500 km every day. A salesman, as you said, is a person that drives between 5/600 km every day. At least here in Italy, we drive a lot of hours because we need to get around, most people live outside the city and the charging infrastructure is certainly expanding but not fast enough. My car has, easily, 900km of range that means that I can drive a lot before refuelling. My point is this, I do not want to own a car that is not capable of driving 800km. I do not want to own another smartphone that p***** me off every day because it drops the battery percent in a jiffy. I want a capable electric car that has an 800km range at a reasonable price. 25-30.000€ and 800 km range that's my car, I don't care about fancy materials or clever infotainment gadgets. I'm a simple man and I want a simple and capable electric car
@Click Bait A liter of petrol is about 8,9 kWh. So a battery of 77kWh comes down to a tank of about 8,7 litres of petrol. Thankfully EVs are way more efficient than petrol cars. I think you are right - long-range EVs (in conjunction with the advancement of charging speed and public charging infrastructure) will be the (only?) way to convince the masses to go electric.
Bob, I think people who say they need a car to do 500 miles on a full tank of fuel need to understand that when you have an electric car you have your own “petrol station “ on your driveway. Plus your “petrol station” has got the lowest cost per litre than any petrol forecourt! Hope that explanation makes sense. 😄
Tesla is not so efficient - the display shows only the pure drive train consumption and not the vampir losses and the heating and preheating. Our tesla model 3 shows a beautifull low 19,7 kWh / 100 km consumption in the display - untill you look into the teslafi app cause there we have for the last 6 winter months over 10.000 km 26,7 kWh consumption for 100 km - way more than ID.3 and not to forget: on top we will have charging losses for both cars.
@@alfrredd Not if you live in a country that doesn't use Kilometres , I'm English and don't understand Km so it would be backwards to use a system that we don't use .
I used to be able to do a 4 hour drive, without a break or a stop, for either a comfort break or general tiredness, that was in my 20's, not any more. That was Warwickshire to Dover.
I think the problem isn't range, the problem is the infrastructure, when you are low on charge and going to a charger and it doesn't work, that is where the stress levels go up.
I've recently been given an EV through work. 58KWh ID3. I only have access to public chargers and some at work, nothing at home. My commute is 30 miles each way, and I'm not in the office everyday as go direct to customers. Never felt worried about a charge, takes days to kill the thing. Plenty of places to top-up, most supermarkets have free ones to give you a few extra miles while doing the weeks shop. BIK tax is awesome, too. What EV do you have?
I abandoned a trip from Wiltshire via Andover then on to the coast last week simply because I had no faith in being able to find a charger down there. Around town its OK but any distance I'm still not sure at all.
@@Steve-gc5nt your fear impacted your trip, not a real life event. I live with a company EV daily and have issues whatsoever. Travel around 25-30k miles a year and do not have a charger at home. All fine.
Thank you for a positive review of the ID.3 Robert; it’s very refreshing as so many reviewers are constantly berating VW and the ID range in general. I can’t wait for my ID.3 to arrive later this month. I’ve had a very long wait for it as I ordered it in July 2021. I’m getting the Family Pro Performance and I’m super excited.
As a huge fan of the show, Robert and EVs, a few thoughts: - Yes, if you can charge from home and don't do long journeys often, range is definitely less important. BUT there are many people who simply cannot charge at home because they live in an apartment or something comparable which makes them pretty much dependent on public chargers. I do own a driveway and charge my car but if I didn't I can imagine I would feel justifiably safer having a car with a range like to this ID3. Having the option of buying a car with a big range is a good way of getting people out petrol and diesel cars. - I'm guessing most people from the UK don't often make (very) long journeys in or to mainland Europe because it's more convenient to fly, and within the UK you can rely on public charging. But personally I refuse to fly within Europe because of the carbon footprint and pollution it entails; which means I need a car that could easily do 100s of kms in one day WHEN I want to go on holiday or far away for my work; for that I would need an EV that has a combination of serious range and fast charging. Most (southern) European countries lag seriously in the outroll of public high powered charging network. I am guessing I am not alone in this, when you see the European corridors to the south (France, Italy, Spain,...) in summer, most of the traffic are tourists. Imagine those people would drive EVs, the world would be a better place! Of course people don't need the range on a daily basis, but the same argument can be made for fossil cars. People seem to choose their car for the most 'extreme' use case, and I can understand that. - A lot of the arguments made on this show are from personal experience, which is not necessarily a bad thing! But do keep in mind that everyone's experience is different. The range topic, the SUV topic - I understand that some people feel they need more than they actually do, but that is definitely not always the case. I am very glad that more car manufacturers are offering cars with serious range and higher charging speeds which opens lots of doors. Let them do it, and the last arguments for fossil burners will become increasingly vapid.
Hi Robert ; thank you for great Vid. I am a sales engineer and switched from BMW 530e Hybrid to the ID3 Pro S with the 78 KwH Battery; the Id3 is really impressive ! And with the the rear wheel drive it feels like a BMW :-) The driving assist even handles the steering on country roads well
As a dedicated fan of Fully Charged for 7 years, I have to say I'm finding myself more and more frustrated with the output of the channel recently. I mean, what was the point of this video? As Robert said, the car has already been reviewed previously so if you weren't actually going to do a full range test, why bother making this video? It really feels like the well of ideas is running a bit dry lately. As someone who was initially very interested in the ID.3, but has been put off by the reports of software issues, perhaps you could go into more detail on the specifics of those issues. What was the exact problem with the Zappi charger? I'd love to see an interview with someone from VW who can perhaps give us more details on what the issues are and what they're doing to fix them. Here's another idea; with a huge number of people probably electing to holiday in the UK this year, how practical is the ID.3 for fitting all the camping gear in? At one point, Fully Charged would be my first and only port of call for all this kind of stuff. Now, I regret to say, other channels are doing a much better job.
Unfortunately Fully Charged has become more about eccentric Robert doing 'funny' voices than about EVs and sustainable energy. I need a long range car so I only have to charge once a week; weak bladdered Robert seems to have removed himself from the real world with a house full of cutting edge tech he is 'testing' for the channel.
@@russvhill2 I don't particularly need more than 200 miles of range, but anyone interested in buying the long range version of the ID.3 probably would like to know exactly how many miles you can get out of the car before it dies. In any case, if you title the video "How many miles can it really do?" I'd expect a proper answer!
The RUclips algorithm demands regular new content from producers or they get punished in terms of discoverability. Hence, new episodes get put out even when they might not be of outstanding quality.
@@slothrr776 very true. But on the other hand, making pointless videos may lose existing subscribers and I think there was an opportunity to do something a bit more valuable even with the difficult lock down restrictions and time constraints. Or just commit to the original idea and see it all the way through.
@@willdashwood82 the answer is 285 miles approx in a weather of around 13 degrees temp. If you want more info - have a look at Bjorn nyland on the same video - and yes expecting fully charged to give the full range would be fair. I think they stopped cause the kona ran out of juice and didnt want to go any further.. :(
I can tell you the real benefit to the larger battery pack. It's for those of us who carry ski boxes or paddleboards on the roof, and mountain bikes on the back. On any given spring, summer or fall day, the range can vary greatly whilst crossing over mountain passes in British Columbia. Those are the journeys that suck the life out of your range - even in the Kia Niro EV 64kW. The paddleboards are like dragging a parachute behind you, and the bikes weigh as much as two small kids. I honestly think it's not all about people traveling long distances - it's about HOW those people are traveling. It's lifestyle.
Bigger battery makes sense when you can't charge at home. If you plug-in while doing shopping once a week, 300 mile range is perfect. Especially ar current property prices - makes more sense to pay for bigger battery than to upgrade your house.
„Upgrading“ our house with a 22kW socket (lockable) cost us around 400 Euros. Best decision we have made. We installed 22kW because the ZOE can process it, amazing.
@@achenarmyst2156 By "upgrading" I meant moving to a house with off-street parking. And considering the EV uptake - prices for those are going to skyrocket really soon. Some people live in houses where even parking on your own street is a challenge. Because that's the best they can afford.
Nice review! Kona has a way smallest battery (64 kWh), still manages to get 300 miles of range. It really has a great efficiency. Also, Hyundai underestimate it's 0-100 time at 7.6s. It has been tested several times doing it at 6.8s. Pretty punchy!
Indeed. Most unfair calling the Kona 'compromised' because the chassis can take an ICE engine too. That's fair criticism for a lot of cars, but not that one. Hyundai/Kia did an amazing job there (better than VW with their dedicated platform).
Indeed, they achieved comparatively good efficiency when you consider: The Kona is an ICE based car. It's essentially there only EV (excluding ioniq electric). They are a mainstream manufacturer, not Tesla, or a luxury brand. Therefor, it will be interesting to see the efficiency of the new Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 based of their new dedicated EV platform. Maybe Tesla finally has some competition in terms of efficiency.
@@jay-uo2bi At this time the EPA on the ionic 5 and EV6 are well down on the kona and e-nero , I think it because these new cars are bigger SUV as the reviewers say they are bigger in the flesh than the pictures show. I am very disappointed that they did not keep the efficiency of the kona and e-nero to these new cars as the marketing department wanted a bigger SUV.
It also has flappy paddle regen, which is miles better than all other regeneration functions on any other make (barring stablemate Kia). I used to have an Ioniq, the replacement Zoe's B mode is not even close.
@@allyliddiard7320 The advantage of the paddle thing is that you get to vary the regen strength as you drive about and that means you rarely need the brake pedal? Whereas other 1-pedal arrangements have a constant regen/braking rate unless you use the brake pedal? (I have never driven any of these so wonder how the nuance works). presumably the point is that this sets a 'default' braking rate when you stop accelerating. But every car gives you a variable raking rate with the pedal. isn't a variable rate always more useful than a fixed rate? I guess one pedal that goes all the way from max acceleration at the bottom to max braking at the top (with normal operation near the middle) would be best. Not sure anyone makes that... I never noticed having to use a brake pedal to get variable braking (on ICE cars) being tiresome (unlike clutches in queues), so I wonder how much never having to use it really matters? Do other cars not have regen/braking rate adjusters at all (other than the pedal)?
I totally agree with the range thing. I was trying to explain that to some family members but I might just send them this video instead. Good stuff as always. Real world thoughts. Thanks
As an owner of an ID3 Pro, let me tell you about the experience. On one of my first trips, I used the automatic cruise control, which is really, really clever as it holds the listed speed limits. Great tech, however, shame on the company as the following day, the ACC developed a fault and needed to go in to VW for a software upgrade. The service team think it is a glitch in the software and not a real problem. On the same trip, I also got a stone chip on the M25, which, after a really cold night, turned in to a crack on the screen. At this point, my enthusiasm for the ID3, which I really like, turned in to a hate for the VW customer attitude. My local dealer wants to have the car for two days for the software upgrade and, to make things worse, there isn't a windscreen in the country, in Europe, actually there is no replacement screen for the HUD windscreen absolutely nowhere! What that means is that VW is selling its top end product without the spares needed if a consumable breaks. Get real VW, it's a bloody marketing fail to sell a car that, when something as simple as a windscreen needs replacing, there are no spares! Chips and damage to windscreens are common occurrences and yet, you have no replacements and nobody knows how to fit it!!! My local VW garage thinks it will take up to three months to get fixed!!!!! I have no problem being an early adopter of new tech, but this is pathetic and shames the brand! For clarity, love the car, hate the brand that leaves me with a totally unusable car because they cannot be arsed to have spares and service support for daily issues before they start selling the stuff!!!!!! I truly hope someone at VW picks this up as I am dealing with your customer care people and getting nowhere. They are trying, but it's an insurance issue, so they say, but just like them, the insurance company cannot get a new screen. Wake up VW, your potential customers will hold off ordering if you do not have the service and consumables to support the product. I know I wish I had held off ordering, this is totally unacceptable.
Worked for Audi for several years in London and that is pretty normal for the VAG group.Releasing cars with no parts or accessories. Worse now due to brexit,I have a 70k Q7 waiting for a sensor three weeks and counting,happily getting to work in my £500 focus.Everyone buys them,but they don't have the infrastructure to cope.Been that way for years.Meanwhile my wife's Kia gets delivered back same day with a new sensor washed and hoovered.
Great review. I did plump for the TM3 but mainly because only the first edition with the smaller battery was available at the time. I do find the larger battery useful though, as it means 80% to 20% (ie 60%) gives a great range without stress. IC found our other car (Leaf 40) less useful on the longer journeys.
So it does with 77kWh what the Kona does with just 64kWh - considering the battery is the biggest cost you'd think they'd put more effort into better efficiency
@@Nathan-rn8yg No, absolutely not. Having a bigger motor does not mean it uses more energy at the same rate of output. It may mean marginally more weight but otherwise no. They do not go hand in hand. Anyways, the ID3 performs insignificantly better than the Kona.
@@jay-uo2bi You can't have high output and have it sip energy too. Bigger power loads are going to draw on the batteries more hence the larger battery to get the distance.
Range is something we are going to have to re-educate ourselves on. I have a 30kwh Nissan Leaf and not had an issue with range. Long journeys take a little planning but the extra stop ( has never been more than one in a long journey for me ) helps to mentally chill while driving and not be in a mad rush everywhere. 160 miles in winter is good enough for how and where I drive. I am still looking forward to the ID 1/2 it must be said.
And although we understand why the high price due to legacy needing to produce more cars and are still building ice engines and need to swap over to make money on EV’s these ID cars need to be £20-26k on the road. £42k is not even remotely a price level but for the more affluent or people ready to spend a huge amount on a car.
China EVS will enforce a radical drop in Euro pricing...and improvement in tech / features/ range etc...before the year is out..I reckon Elon will stir everything up in the autumn with radical EV pricing too,,, :)
Robert, RANGE is very important for us living here in the USA, as there are vast distances to cover here, most people that live here that i have talked to , have said that when electrics car ranges hit 700 miles (70 mph for 10 hrs is usually a normal 1st stop when on vacation) then they will buy one as then it can be a 1 car household and you won't have to own another car to take long trips in, please keep this in mind when you make videos, as there are alot of us here in the states that are subscribed to you, thanks and you are doing a great job!!
Very few people could go for 10 hours straight without stopping for a comfort break or to get some food. And there are very few ICE cars that have that kind of range, so why would an EV need it?
@@JackRussell021 Where do you live??? Most ICE cars can go 400-500 miles on a tank , I didnt say we dont stop at all , but if we do , its usually only for fuel and its only for 10 -15 min, for fuel and to go in and get snacks-drinks etc , and then we are off again until the next fuel stop or 10 hrs for the day. These are the kind of trips that families make in the summer, to go visit relatives, or national parks, etc.. You could do a trip like this in a EV but it would take forever, and time is important on these trips, as one might only have a week off, so as i have stated before, when EV's get that range , the ICE will be doomed. Its not to say that a person cant buy one now and make it a 2 car family , but by making it a 2 car family, it adds a extra cost, when if the EV got 700 miles of range you could only have 1 car and have no extra cost.
Yep not a major concern for someone with a drive who can easily plug in overnight but it's something that's major pro for those who need to use public chargers.
Depends if you have a garage. For those who have a garage, it's really no problem to just take the 10 seconds to plug it in each night. If you have to park it outside at the roadside and there is no charger, then that may indeed be a consideration.
Completely agree (I'm in this situation). But it is an only temporary problem. Most companies have plenty of parking space and could place many low speed chargers for their employees. They could even earn some money doing it, I would sure be happy to charge at work.
@@lvermei I think that this is the missing link. 3-5KW chargers at work, at the long stay train station car park or at the park and ride facilities. We need these more than we need endless overly expensive super rapid chargers. We need those too, but we to give the change a proper push, we need cheap slow non-driveway charging as much. And only one in every 10 - 20 spaces? not going to charge every day and most will still charge at home.
We have a "standard range" (58kWh useable) ID.3 1st edition which we bought in March 2023 secondhand. We have achieved without trying 4.1 miles/kWh over 18 months. 200 mile journeys are simply not a problem even in the winter. Our November 2020 car now has v3.2 of the software although to be honest we have never had problems that others seem to complain about.
the statement 'you only do long distances once/twice a year' is relative........we do 300km one way just to go to our weekend spot weekly. Our province Alberta is bigger than all of UK combined so either recharge stations enroute or at destination when its -30c.......not today
Elon musk Vw group invited him for his opinions over the European styled mass market cars. He drove in one if the airships in Germany U can find the video
Robert, the problems you experienced with charging at home are no surprise to me. Having had several ICE VW cars and their problems (lacking a decent QC at VW?) prompted me to buy only Japanese for the last 25 years. Never had any disappointment since. My next (=EV) car will therefore, NOT be a VW.
@@Robert-cu9bm I know.....but not my disgust for VW which left me standing in the cold at moments most inconvenient to me. Same with BMW. (The 5 year old BMW 5 series even stopped sweeping my front window during a highway downpour in the dark!). Driving a Lexus GS300h now (plus a Jaguar XK from 2008 for the weekends, -british-!!) and (Suzuki) & Prius II, and III before that. Never ever had one single Japanese problem. Best regards from the Netherlands.
I will never buy a VW ever again. Absolute piece of shit, fulling apart everywhere, now VW have been found out again with more lies. Shit cars, shit company.
Great video as usual and good to see the ID.3 longe range model performing pretty much as advertised. I'll be getting my first EV in the next two months and found this to be extremely helpful. Range is a consideration for me, just like for everyone else. Until I retired last year I worked in the construction industry and did about 30,000 miles a year. I'd have probably been OK with any of the three EV's Robert refers to in the video and the rapid increase in the number and capabilities of public charge points is helping to reduce range anxiety concerns all the time. For many people a journey of more than 200 miles will be an unusual event rather than the norm I think. The ID.3 (58kWh) battery version on my shortlist to test drive when dealerships finally re-open next week ....... can't wait to find out how it drives and compares to the Kona, e-Niro and Ioniq that I'll also be test driving. Will also be very keen to drive the new Hyundai Ioniq5 and Kia EV6 when they finally hit the showrooms in the UK! 😀
Robert, I have just ordered the Id.3 pro s tour with the 77kwh 150kwh motor. I am happy with the range especially winter 200odd miles I travel to Cornwall a lot and that's great news with higher temperatures. I test drove a 58kwh battery with the 150bhp battery and it was rapid. I presume with the extra weight of the bigger battery but with the 204bhp motor it's still pretty nippy Cheers
I really enjoyed watching this with my master. He absolutely loves this channel and especially the id3 but he's very sad as his wife won't let him get one.
Can you please stop being so closed minded when it come to the need for EV’s with a long range per charge. Just because you can charge in your garage or driveway every night does not mean everybody can. The constant put down of ‘You don’t need to go 300 miles per charger’ is quite frankly insulting to the 6 million plus households in the UK who can’t even park close to there abode let alone on a driveway or in a garage. Millions of people have long daily commutes with no guarantee of a parking spot when they get home. There is no doubt the charging infrastructure will grow to accommodate all needs in the future. But for all those people without off street parking at home or at work there will always be a need for EV’s with enough range to last the week on a single charge. If like me (in a past life thankfully) you are faced with a long daily commute (an hour and half drive each way) and 12hr shifts, stopping every night on the way home to charge the car simply is not manageable. As of June 2020, a total of 6,642,000 households in the UK do not have off street parking. That is just the UK, most other countries face this problem as well. The counter argument to this is normally along the line of ‘move closer to work’ or ‘change jobs’. For millions of people this is not an option and never will be. There will always be a need for cars that can go 300 mile plus in the rain, at night, in the middle of winter at motorway speeds. Will we get them? Yes, and it is clear they will get cheaper and charge faster. But there will always be people who will have to go out of their way to charge. Only having to do that just once a week is for many people the only option. So having said all that, when lock down ends (hopefully soon), why don’t you do a real test. Do a 60 mile round trip commute (about an hour’s drive each way) with a 10 to 12 hour shift per day in between, for a week (yes many people have to do that). Only charge with public chargers. Then come back and talk about how people do not need a long range EV.
I would agree. I drive to Scotland (Edinburgh) several times a year from the south of England (not far from Cullompton, as it happens, a 440 mile journey), and cannot park by my house and charge. So I'd charge to 80% of that 300 miles (so 240 miles) and realistically will need to recharge twice on the journey, becaus there isn't always a charger exactly at the end of the journey. I'm not saying that that isn't doable, but it's not the irrelevance Robert makes out.
@@UBERmorrison I think you should read my post before making such a comment. A 58kw battery would allow most people to go a full week on a single charge. For people who work 12hr shifts 5 days a week (like I have in the past), with long commutes, there is not much time to stop and charge during the week. What I was getting at is the constant rhetoric of people do not need long range EV’s. With commuting, my average day was 14hrs. Leave home a 5am and back just in time to see the kids to bed a 7pm. Many people are in this position. These are not ‘spunked’ figures, this was unfortunately very real for many years. A car like yours would have allowed me to go 3 or 4 days between a charge. That is something that could have worked in that situation but then it is a mid to higher range car. You sort or make my point. You don’t have a problem because of the range of your car. Personally I am looking forward to getting a 4 or 5 year old BMW i3 at some point. Its 60 to 80 mile range will be more than adequate for my needs. Not something I could have said many years ago.
I used to do mobile patrol security. In the first year doing the job, my opposite shift partner and I did 197,000 miles.The rota was 24/7 weekends and a 12 hour night shift the rest of the week.
We were really up for an ID3, set up a 1 hour drive at our local outlet in Bradford, both took time out of work, arrived early.....it was still in the showroom.....then it didn’t work....then they couldn’t fix it...then we went back to work and that was that.
So similar. I was very keen on ID3 but poor test drive experience. Embarrassed for the salesman who couldn't unlock the car, then couldn't open the boot. It just didn't feel put together properly and then I got a very short test drive. If they couldn't be bothered to try and sell it, I couldn't be bothered to buy it. Bought a much cheaper Zoe (with a hefty discount too) which suits me for now.
@@bobqzzi definitely bigger but still a crossover not a full size suv. Also with federal tax credit it’s as low as 32,500. Not bad for a new electric car
I would consider looking at the Kia Niro EV as well. Similar range to Kona but considerably roomier. Very similar price, also. I own one and get around 270 miles range driving at 65 mph.
Interesting review I am one of those people who does need 250mls + as i live in the highlands and "local" shopping trips to Inverness are 200ml round trips so thank goodness range is now extending to allow use the chance of using an affordable version of an EV
As most UK journeys are less than 10 miles, it would be interesting to see what range this car had doing multiple short journeys from cold. Probably a nightmare to do, but would be very useful for those of us who'd love an EV, but can't charge at home.
it'd be a good question, given that the total range didn't fluctuate much, my guess would be it might make 10-20% difference. though i guess the upside of multiple long journeys is that it increases your odds of bumping into a convenient charger.. eg, if you are driving to the shop, or office or parking at the cinema or whatever, you only need to spot a handy charger what, one in 10 times and you'd be sorted. around here they've been installing street chargers at a pretty impressive pace as well. PLUS most short journeys will be at lower speeds, and at A-road 40mph on the bypass type roads the range will be much better than the motorway.
@@mralistair737 I was just thinking the battery heating the VW's apparently do might hit the range a fair bit with lots of short journeys. not a problem in summer I'm sure, but perhaps could make a dent to range in the winter.
@@Robert-cu9bm They are more efficient in town, but not for that reason. With regen you get back some of what you used to get up to speed, but not all of it. The main reason they are more efficient in town is that speeds are far lower. This is where an ICE losses out in a big way, because with an ICE you have to use a lower, less efficient gear to keep the engine within its working range.
Thank you once again Robert. One thing though. With petrol cars people don’t have the daily worry of refuelling if they only use them as quoted, i.e. going to work, shopping etc. Instead it’s usually a once a week thing. Most people think this way when they see an electric vehicle not going for the whole four or five hundred miles between “fill ups”, not the all-in-a-day affair.
@@johnmightymole2284 Indeed. And one day, in the not too distant future, EV range will be measured in months, not miles. (We only measure it in miles because that’s the way we’ve done so since the petrol days.) That’s the day I’ll buy an EV. Meanwhile, all those who buy into the (expensive) idea are guinea pigs. Thank you guinea pigs …
Internet tells me the ID3 has a drag coefficient of 0.267, versus the Model 3's 0.23. Power requirements go up with the square of air speed so that ~0.03 difference could actually account for the efficiency...
Power requirements go up with the cube of air speed. And yes, saying that the higher consumption of the ID.3 is due bad software is nonsense that Robert can’t proof. And that coming from a person rightly constantly pointing at the fake news of the general press on EVs. 😡
@@e-redj Aerodynamic drag F = 0.5 x fluid density x velocity SQUARED x coefficient x area So is your misunderstanding of aerodynamics fake news or just a simple mistake? 'cause people make mistakes all the time...
@@Smidge204 Yes, the force is proportional to the velocity square, but he was talking about Power requirements. Power equals force times velocity, thus power is proportional to velocity cube.
Thanks, I was looking for this comment, it is drag coefficient, not software that caused lower efficiency. That being said software does look like a problem in this car and a reason I would not buy it at the moment.
Thanks Robert for another great video, in relation to range In Australia we still would like to have 1,000km’s approx 600odd miles for towing capacity and being able to travel the distances we need to travel. It’s what we do on the weekends.
Bob, I think people who say they need a car to do 500 miles on a full tank of fuel need to understand that when you have an electric car you have your own “petrol station “ on your driveway. Plus your “petrol station” has got the lowest cost per litre than any petrol forecourt! Hope that explanation makes sense. 😄
The people who want 500 miles are not visiting their home within that 500 miles. So the cheap and easy fuel station at home is good for the first 500 miles, but no help at all after that (so reminding them about it won't help). I'm one of those people (I'd actually be happy with 300 miles, although I do enjoy my current 600, and use it regularly). I can probably manage with 200 but will have to change how I do things. But nobody actually makes a 200 mile van yet, although the new PSA's are close, and probably will do that on a nice summers day if you take it easy (but nowhere near in winter). So yes we agree that people who demand 500 miles range _and_ do most of their trips
@@xxwookey Agree totally. If you don't have a driveway or are consistently doing more than 250 mile journeys, then still EV's are not right. There are very few people (as a % of total vehicle sales) who do anything like 250 miles per week.
@@slhslh9038 Of course. I agree that the range thing is wildly overemphasised by people who don't use EVs and that the vast majority of people could already use them just fine, at least for smaller vehicles (which is why we are heading up the S-curve of adoption quickly, at least). I was just pointing out the logic error in what the OP said.
Having the option of a bigger range, and people realising it's just not required will help remove the barriers that get put up against thinking about going electric. During a 'normal' longer journey people won't drive more than 2 - 3 hours without a break, and the rapid charging is already at a point where it's able to extend range during a short break for most people's needs. Getting the second-hand market so there are cars that can do 150-200 miles for the price of a new small hatchback is pretty key in getting extended take-up. To me, being able to go somewhere 50 miles away and get back without needing to charge, even in the coldest worst weather, while still having a spare 15-20 miles at the end is my kind of minimum mark.
How much range does it lose in winter? What happens if you floor it a few times? More range is always a good thing. That's why hot hatches don't make 100 bhp anymore, for example.
As a taxi driver you never know where you are going with the next fare so half way through a shift I couldn't do a trip from Darlington to Manchester Airport without stopping for a charge. Taxi drivers are the ones that need the legs of miles for convenience to the customer.
Robert. Love the program. Love the info. But can you please at least accept that there are some motorists who don't follow the usage pattern that you propose. I would love to have an electric car and i will as soon as it's practical for me. But my usage pattern is that i don't commute, i rarely use the car for short journeys but i do make long journeys multiple times per year. I drive from Kent to the midlands, round trip, once a month, plus i drive to Denmark and back twice a year. I also don't chug along at 67mph on the motorway like on this video. Like many uk drivers i drive at more like 75-80. Factor all this in and there are very few EVs that would suit my driving profile right now. I realize that you need to tailor your content to the majority of users but please don't totally ignore those of us on the fringe of motoring.
You don't have to wait until the software is perfected. Remember that the ID.3 has OTA software updating capability. Updates will be pushed to the cars as the software is continually improved over time, while you are enjoying a fantastic, well built car in the meantime.
It is actually quite sorted. Software version 2.1 is out now and going OTA, huge improvements. I would not see that as a reason not to buy one right now.
@@chillout1109 I wouldn't buy one if it was thrown after me. The dealerships here in Norway has a terrible history in poor customer care. Anything VAG related is a no go for me. And I'm not interested in buying a new car with a new car pricetag to be a Beta software tester
My 77kwh Pro S is being delivered in May. Looking forward to giving a proper range check on the hills and turns of the coastal A roads from Hampshire to Devon!
I completely agree that logically I don't need that sort of range 99% of the time but occasionally when I do need to get to my elderly parents (245 miles) I want a car that would get me there in one go, which is what I am currently used to. So I am always torn when considering EVs between what I think I need and what I would really use every week.
Many EVs do over 245miles of range. Plus that is nearly 4 hours of driving. If you stop for a toilet break and a coffee you could easily charge your car for 10 to 20 mins and get a decent amount of range on a level 3 charger.
Regarding range, I like to stop every couple of hours on a long journey in any case, just to pace myself. If you're doing the legal speed limit that's 140 miles. If you want to push your luck at 80 mph it's still only 160 miles. Sot it's perfectly convenient to stop and charge then. Sure, at 80 you're consuming a lot faster - but still. I drove up to Scotland in my Hyundai Kona 64kw and reckoned the whole journey took me maybe 45 minutes longer than if I'd been in my old diesel.
I, before lock down, regularly had to drive 300 miles, mostly motorway, driving in a day. I typically stop after 2-2.5 hrs for a comfort break and coffee. What I need is an EV which will do just over 220 miles at an average of 70-75 mph. The reason is that the most I will drive in one go is 200 miles and then I want enough range to go to the next motorway stop if the chargers at my normal stop are not working. ID3 Pro S meets those requirements, shame it is a bit too pricey
You NEED to show the km every time you say miles, this was more or less without any information for me (and most of the world). Just a little 282km or 15kwh/100km popping up in the corner.
Reviewers who keep telling us we don't need 400 miles range are all people who have somewhere to charge the car overnight or at work, there are millions of drivers without off street parking or charging at work who would have to make specific trips to charging station much like they do for fuel now, my drive to work and back is 40 miles and I have nowhere to charge an electric vehicle, my current car does 2 weeks between fill ups and then takes about 5 minutes to get another two weeks worth of miles put back into, until they can match that there are a huge amount of people who will stick with internal combustion, even if it means holding on to an older car because they can't buy them new any more..
Greetings from the U.S. Something I don't see mentioned is how differently one can approach charging with the large battery. We have a Chevrolet Bolt EV Premier, and an early 1st gen Nissan LEAF. Our driving style allows us to drive beyond our Bolt's 259 mile estimated range. Now, when I'm commuting, The farther place I have to report to on night shifts is a 40 mile round trip - certainly in the range of a small battery EV. My day station is half this. Just looking at this, it looks good for your argument. Now, I have the capacity to engage in measures that work to ensure the longest possible life of my battery. I only charge to 80% for my local needs, and then charge at about 20%. Most weeks due to my work rotation, charging occurs for me about once per week. This further de stresses the battery as they ultimately do have a limit on the number of charge cycles they will handle before they degrade to the point of being useless. The longer range allows me to also use this vehicle for vacations, where such distances and more are an occurrence. I've been on a couple of trips where the end result was over a thousand miles traveled. Being able to use the same vehicle, instead of jumping into a petrol powered one make it worth the cost. My Partner and I have plans this fall to embark on a journey that will at the end of it, have us traveling over 4,000 miles, and We'll be using the Bolt for this trip. So the higher range makes the EV a practical and useful long distance car, as well as the regional commuter and daily life banging around duties. Even if we moved to the U.K. (something that I wouldn't mind actually), We would still spec the higher capacity battery, just to allow us to use the car fully, even those days when we want to go about the countryside, exploring the area to it's fullest. Our LEAF however, at 49k miles, due to both the low capacity and poor chemistry, has lost nearly 25% of its capacity, due in part to it having to be constantly recharged after every use. It's now regulated to the very local, very close neighborhood type of use. It'll be cycled out for the ID Buzz, if VW ever gets it here, and we plan on spec'ing the 111kw battery.
I drive 225km to work. I live in northern Sweden and it is cold with long winters. I need a car that can do that in -30C. Sure, I don't drive there and back every day but it is still 225km there and 225km back home. Please visit up here and do range tests when the pandemic is over.
Been excited about the ID.3 since you first drove it back in South Africa. I'm ID.3 Tour (77KWh) is turning up before then end of the month ( Regulaly do over 180 miles in a day for work so mainly for range in the winter). Glad you mentioned about the Zappi as I have just had mine installed ready for moving from my Diesel Golf looks like its an issue when charging above 80% Thanks for the great video as always.
@@randomdaveUK people over on the myenergi forum have been talking about it in depth seems to be mostly buggy software. Software 2.1 appears to have cleared some of the issues but I suspect the car that Robert was driving had that already so clearly not fully. Going to be a difficult entire into the ev market for me if the charger won't work with the car properly. Will just have to charge for free at work :3
@@cooljohnpoole there's great scrutiny on everything an EV can do, but even more scrutiny on what it can't. Many looking to point out flaws. These cars need to arrive mostly flawless to aid adoption. If software is the only issue that's not bad, it's not great of course, but that can be upgraded over the air. I'm hopeful for VW in the EV space and pretty sure Tesla will continue to improve. The future looks good for this switch to EVs.
@@randomdaveUK completely agree noone also looks at what and EV can do Vs a ICE I am thuroughly looking forward to without even leaving the house getting the car warm on a cold winter's day before I leave not having to de-ice. And coming home after a long day knowing I'm not going to have to go via a petrol station at the crack of dawn as the car will be topped backup over night. And the thought of a car getting better with time . . . That doesn't happen in a ICE car unless you remap the engine which has risks on its own. Oh and the £5 fill up rather than £50. I could go on 😜
@@cooljohnpoole on the petrol pump front, many say "oh it only takes 5 mins to fill up"... It doesn't, it would take me 20-25 mins and I have a petrol station less than 5 mins away from me, and it's a deviation from my route, plus the getting there and back is never mentioned by EV critics. You'll have the car charging while you sleep. Enjoy your new car 😁😁
I have the same problem. I’ve currently got a Nissan X-Trail and a Honda C-RV before it mainly because of their ability to swallow a dog crate plus all of the other family items we carry about.
I was recently in the market for my first EV and I was deciding mostly between the ID3 and the Kona. I prefer the look of the ID3 and prefer that it is rear wheel drive, but I went for the Kona because it had more features that I wanted and seemed easier to live with. I've not had it long, but I'm very happy with my choice so far.
"How about UK range..... Sufficient"? (Which is what he told you at least 4 times) He literally said "It outranged me..... I could have charged at that point but I didn't....." It's established a "base" mileage of 280. Indicated that a "comfort break" at UK services would allow 20(?) Minutes extra charge, let's say 120 miles? If you *were* on the motorway only getting 2.6 miles per kWh and you *average* 65mph (realistic) that's a max of 320 miles, call it 300, so 4.6 hours, I'd be ready for lunch? Out-ranges the driver..... All we need to know.
Cost - iD3 Pro Performance & Tesla SR+ (with heat pump & stock aero wheels): iD3 - £42,699 Tesla - £40,990 Battery Pack: iD3 - 62.0 kWh, (58.0kWh usable) Tesla - 55.0kWh, (50.0kWh usable) Real Range est. - Cold weather combined: iD3 - 180 miles Tesla - 170 miles Real Range est. - Mild weather combined: iD3 - 250 miles Tesla - 240 miles Performance - 0-62 mph: iD3 - 7.3 sec Tesla - 5.6 sec Cargo volume: iD3 - 385L (frunk volume - 0L) Tesla - 542L (frunk volume - yes, but no data) Towing weight - Unbraked: iD3 - 0kg Tesla - 750kg Auto Pilot & over the air updates: iD3 - No Tesla - Yes These battery sizes get you anywhere.
I'm sure they'd have been selective when the speed was in shot, well at least I hope so as motorway traffic moves at 75-85mph. Doing 60 odd is basically hypermiling but that's essentially part of the deal with special interest content.
My metric for if electric cars are ready is when I can go 350km at 110km/h in cold scandinavian winter (so heater on) and the price is below 500k SEK. The range need is because that's a trip I make a few times a year. Going further than that I can make stops to charge, but it would be a real hassle to have to charge for that specific trip. The plan is to get an electric car 2025, so I really hope it's available by then. It's looking bright, more available choices coming out all the time, now just need to get that price down.
Keen to see what VW does with this car as time goes on, 2022 , 2023 models etc its the right size for me hopefully Australia can bring in some incentives to purchase EV
@@rogerstarkey5390 Launch was not delayed...but shipped with buggy Software...and earlier owners signed that they know this and got some incentives...3 month free leasing. There were some updates and now there is 2.1, which is able to do OTA...updates after this do not need visit of garage anymore.
I regularly do 260-300 miles in a single day between Bristol and London and this is by no means a long journey in the UK. When I go to Scotland and back it's well over 800 miles in 2 days, sometimes one day. Maybe I'm a statistical outlier but I very much doubt that.
I always wonder why people ask for a car that needs a range any higher than this in the uk? I mean I don’t have a petrol station on my drive but I would be able to refuel an electric car at my home. It seems to me that makes electric cars the best option for everyone. Hopefully I’ll be getting a electric car soon.
Its nice to do a round trip without having to stop and charge. Also some people drive to Europe on holidays - like I do to Spain. Also remember you hardly ever get stated range and over over 100k Miles you may lose 10% of range as batteries degrade over time and charge cycles. You are recommended not to fully charge or discharge - 90% down to 10% leaving 80% of stated range 80% of 300 is 240! And who wants to left stranded because they ran out of fuel - so you avoid getting below 10%. Another point is larger batteries have fewer charge cycles for a given Mileage. So Long range Model is warranted for 120K Miles and Standard range fro 100k Miles because it will need more charge cycles to achieve that Mileage.
Everyone? Not everybody can charge at home and wake up to a full "tank". I had a look at charging in my town of some 60k population - mostly Victorian / Edwardian properties with no off road parking. There are six public chargers, two 3kw in a local supermarket & four 7kw in the station car park. Nirvana is a long way away yet.
"You don't drive 173 miles on your commute". I do. My commute is 95 mile each way (190 miles) with zero charging stations along the way. Plus it gets proper cold here (-35 degrees). So, yeah, Some of us have different situations.
I'm going to go out and say that this is an insane situation and you are wasting huge amounts of your life sitting in a car.. you need to move house or workplace! . so designing for your circumstance wouldn't be totally logical. However it would actually work with this car, and if your workplace installed a few chargers then it'd work with pretty much every electric car on the market.
Would be interesting to calculate the energy efficiency of German ICE or S-Bahn - fully electrified. Concerning the ID.3 I like it very much and range even with the standard 58 kWh is really good. Travel assist and HUD are really nice (I've bought the ID.3 Tech).
I really like Fully Charged but in this review it wasn't even mentioned that the VW ID.3 Pro S only has 4 seats in this configuration. Because of the bigger battery there is no middle seat in the back, a rather important aspect to consider in a purchase decision in my opinion..
@@josefv-y8m Oh thanks :-) I did not know that! Still good to know that "Pro S" has only 4 seats and "Tour 5" 5 seats. Though in Germany the base price of Pro S is ~42T€ and Tour 5 is ~48T€, Tour 5 has other extra features (e.g. Travel Assist) included in the base price but if you just want 5 seats you have to pay 6T€ extra, weird pricing if you ask me :D.
You are wrong there. The only model with the 77kWh battery is the Pro S Tour and it is strictly a four seater car. That should not be a problem to most people as it is very rare that you transport that many people.
“ The software wokrs absolutely flawlessly”. Wait a minute. A the beginning of the video you said the car would not charge properly on the 11Kw Zappi charger, and you blamed the car, not the charger.
Thanks for using also the metric system. I think it's not fair to say "It's super fuel efficient" if it is 10% less efficient that a much fester car that is 4 years old. It's... quite fuel efficient, but I'm sure they can improve.
size of battery and length of range is not just necessary for long journeys, its necessary for drivers who have no means to charge at home... bigger battery and longer range means less trips to a charger...
You charge the car when you're doing something else like taking a break, shopping or you're at work. The idea of 'less charging' isnt the same as less refilling an ICE car becauseyou dont physically have to be with the car to do it, unlikean ICE.
SUBSCRIBE, LIKE & SHARE if you want Clean Energy & Electric Vehicles to be the norm.
Robert has been a fan of the ID.3 since he was the first British journalist to drive it in South Africa a few years ago. It was a game changer car then, and remains so today, but is the Pro S long range model worth investing the extra money in? Robert takes it on a road trip to find out.
The ID.3 Pro S comes with a 77 kWh battery delivering an impressive range of around 280-300 miles on a single charge making it comparable with the long range Tesla Model 3. But here's the question - how many times do you drive 280 miles in a single journey?
The ID.3 is efficient, easy to drive and Robert even prefers it over the Hyundai Kona (don't tell Mrs L), but would the standard model with the smaller, cheaper battery suit the majority of people better? One thing is for certain, the ID.3 remains an incredibly impressive EV.
Make sure you are subscribed then enter 'The Great EV Giveaway' for your chance to win an EV for a year and lots of other fantastic prizes fullycharged.show/EV-Giveaway/
Fully Charged is 100% independent thanks to RUclips Memberships and Patreons. Without you this channel wouldn’t be possible! If you’d like to help support the Fully Charged channel and its mission:
Become a Patreon: www.patreon.com/FullyChargedShow
Become a RUclips member: use JOIN button above Subscribe to Fully Charged & the Fully Charged PLUS channels
Buy the Fully Charged Guide to Electric Vehicles & Clean Energy : buff.ly/2GybGt0
Browse the Fully Charged store: shop.fullycharged.show/
Visit our LIVE exhibitions in the UK, USA & Europe: FullyCharged.Show/events
Subscribe for episode alerts and the Fully Charged newsletter: fullycharged.show/zap-sign-up/
Visit: FullyCharged.Show
Find us on Twitter: twitter.com/fullychargedshw
Follow us on Instagram: instagram.com/fullychargedshow
Timestamps:
0:00 ID.3 Special
0:40 Blown away
1:30 Glitchy software
2:35 Long drive
4:05 Off we go
4:27 Comfort break
5:38 Crew camera fitting
6:00 Game changer
7:03 Tight tandem
7:48 Range talk
9:26 Electric experience
10:42 Who needs a car like this?
11:07 Weather dependent
11:33 Model 3 comparison
13:30 Auto slowing
14:02 Kona comparison
15:29 Couldn't be bothered!
15:59 Is bigger better?
16:34 Speed stats
17:23 Delight to drive
18:44 Subscribe, support, join
think about it 1000 mile range means you can use the car as a back up generator for the home if you set it up... would love to see you do that experiment, using car to run your home...
Well, regarding the range. A friend of our is a farrier and he travels almost 4/500 km every day. A salesman, as you said, is a person that drives between 5/600 km every day. At least here in Italy, we drive a lot of hours because we need to get around, most people live outside the city and the charging infrastructure is certainly expanding but not fast enough. My car has, easily, 900km of range that means that I can drive a lot before refuelling. My point is this, I do not want to own a car that is not capable of driving 800km. I do not want to own another smartphone that p***** me off every day because it drops the battery percent in a jiffy. I want a capable electric car that has an 800km range at a reasonable price. 25-30.000€ and 800 km range that's my car, I don't care about fancy materials or clever infotainment gadgets. I'm a simple man and I want a simple and capable electric car
@Click Bait A liter of petrol is about 8,9 kWh. So a battery of 77kWh comes down to a tank of about 8,7 litres of petrol. Thankfully EVs are way more efficient than petrol cars. I think you are right - long-range EVs (in conjunction with the advancement of charging speed and public charging infrastructure) will be the (only?) way to convince the masses to go electric.
Bob, I think people who say they need a car to do 500 miles on a full tank of fuel need to understand that when you have an electric car you have your own “petrol station “ on your driveway. Plus your “petrol station” has got the lowest cost per litre than any petrol forecourt! Hope that explanation makes sense. 😄
Tesla is not so efficient - the display shows only the pure drive train consumption
and not the vampir losses and the heating and preheating. Our tesla model 3 shows a beautifull low 19,7 kWh / 100 km consumption in the display - untill you look into the teslafi app cause there we have for the last 6 winter months over 10.000 km 26,7 kWh consumption for 100 km - way more than ID.3
and not to forget: on top we will have charging losses for both cars.
Thank u very much Fully charged for involving metric system in every measuring /Europe and pretty much the rest
miles to the kWh is the most backwards measurement ever.
@@alfrredd Wh/km is where it is at
@@davidsommen1324 yes, I thought electric cars would make mpg disappear but they found a way to use it. *facepalm*
@@davidsommen1324 I prefer Wh / Mile but that is purely because I'm in the US and don't really have any reference as to how far a km is.
@@alfrredd Not if you live in a country that doesn't use Kilometres , I'm English and don't understand Km so it would be backwards to use a system that we don't use .
For sure one of the better Fully Charged videos. Robert was great, no bumbling, relaxing, great length, great explaining and charging too! Re-subbed!🙂
What made you un sub?
Rumour is Robert had an OTA software upgrade last week.
What do you mean No bumbling, he raved about driving it in south africa Twice in quick succession.
I used to be able to do a 4 hour drive, without a break or a stop, for either a comfort break or general tiredness, that was in my 20's, not any more. That was Warwickshire to Dover.
I think the problem isn't range, the problem is the infrastructure, when you are low on charge and going to a charger and it doesn't work, that is where the stress levels go up.
Yup, even a 200 mile range is enough if you have a plethora of working chargers!
I've recently been given an EV through work. 58KWh ID3. I only have access to public chargers and some at work, nothing at home. My commute is 30 miles each way, and I'm not in the office everyday as go direct to customers. Never felt worried about a charge, takes days to kill the thing. Plenty of places to top-up, most supermarkets have free ones to give you a few extra miles while doing the weeks shop. BIK tax is awesome, too.
What EV do you have?
That is so true.
I abandoned a trip from Wiltshire via Andover then on to the coast last week simply because I had no faith in being able to find a charger down there.
Around town its OK but any distance I'm still not sure at all.
@@Steve-gc5nt your fear impacted your trip, not a real life event. I live with a company EV daily and have issues whatsoever. Travel around 25-30k miles a year and do not have a charger at home. All fine.
Thank you for a positive review of the ID.3 Robert; it’s very refreshing as so many reviewers are constantly berating VW and the ID range in general. I can’t wait for my ID.3 to arrive later this month. I’ve had a very long wait for it as I ordered it in July 2021. I’m getting the Family Pro Performance and I’m super excited.
As a huge fan of the show, Robert and EVs, a few thoughts:
- Yes, if you can charge from home and don't do long journeys often, range is definitely less important. BUT there are many people who simply cannot charge at home because they live in an apartment or something comparable which makes them pretty much dependent on public chargers. I do own a driveway and charge my car but if I didn't I can imagine I would feel justifiably safer having a car with a range like to this ID3. Having the option of buying a car with a big range is a good way of getting people out petrol and diesel cars.
- I'm guessing most people from the UK don't often make (very) long journeys in or to mainland Europe because it's more convenient to fly, and within the UK you can rely on public charging. But personally I refuse to fly within Europe because of the carbon footprint and pollution it entails; which means I need a car that could easily do 100s of kms in one day WHEN I want to go on holiday or far away for my work; for that I would need an EV that has a combination of serious range and fast charging. Most (southern) European countries lag seriously in the outroll of public high powered charging network. I am guessing I am not alone in this, when you see the European corridors to the south (France, Italy, Spain,...) in summer, most of the traffic are tourists. Imagine those people would drive EVs, the world would be a better place! Of course people don't need the range on a daily basis, but the same argument can be made for fossil cars. People seem to choose their car for the most 'extreme' use case, and I can understand that.
- A lot of the arguments made on this show are from personal experience, which is not necessarily a bad thing! But do keep in mind that everyone's experience is different. The range topic, the SUV topic - I understand that some people feel they need more than they actually do, but that is definitely not always the case. I am very glad that more car manufacturers are offering cars with serious range and higher charging speeds which opens lots of doors. Let them do it, and the last arguments for fossil burners will become increasingly vapid.
Hi Robert ; thank you for great Vid.
I am a sales engineer and switched from BMW 530e Hybrid to the ID3 Pro S with the 78 KwH Battery; the Id3 is really impressive ! And with the the rear wheel drive it feels like a BMW :-)
The driving assist even handles the steering on country roads well
I can't wait for my ID.3 58kWh to be delivered (est. mid May)
I have one. You'll love it.
I have my ID.3 since December. Great car. I love it!
@@cmpc724 earn more money.
Good job !
As a dedicated fan of Fully Charged for 7 years, I have to say I'm finding myself more and more frustrated with the output of the channel recently. I mean, what was the point of this video? As Robert said, the car has already been reviewed previously so if you weren't actually going to do a full range test, why bother making this video? It really feels like the well of ideas is running a bit dry lately. As someone who was initially very interested in the ID.3, but has been put off by the reports of software issues, perhaps you could go into more detail on the specifics of those issues. What was the exact problem with the Zappi charger? I'd love to see an interview with someone from VW who can perhaps give us more details on what the issues are and what they're doing to fix them. Here's another idea; with a huge number of people probably electing to holiday in the UK this year, how practical is the ID.3 for fitting all the camping gear in? At one point, Fully Charged would be my first and only port of call for all this kind of stuff. Now, I regret to say, other channels are doing a much better job.
Unfortunately Fully Charged has become more about eccentric Robert doing 'funny' voices than about EVs and sustainable energy.
I need a long range car so I only have to charge once a week; weak bladdered Robert seems to have removed himself from the real world with a house full of cutting edge tech he is 'testing' for the channel.
@@russvhill2 I don't particularly need more than 200 miles of range, but anyone interested in buying the long range version of the ID.3 probably would like to know exactly how many miles you can get out of the car before it dies. In any case, if you title the video "How many miles can it really do?" I'd expect a proper answer!
The RUclips algorithm demands regular new content from producers or they get punished in terms of discoverability. Hence, new episodes get put out even when they might not be of outstanding quality.
@@slothrr776 very true. But on the other hand, making pointless videos may lose existing subscribers and I think there was an opportunity to do something a bit more valuable even with the difficult lock down restrictions and time constraints. Or just commit to the original idea and see it all the way through.
@@willdashwood82 the answer is 285 miles approx in a weather of around 13 degrees temp.
If you want more info - have a look at Bjorn nyland on the same video - and yes expecting fully charged to give the full range would be fair. I think they stopped cause the kona ran out of juice and didnt want to go any further.. :(
Notice the sign on the charger at around 15:17 "Co-financed by the Connecting Europe Facility of the European Union"
LOL
Neatly segues into life of Brian sketch....”apart from that what have the Romans done for us?”
@@ariapro22 well said!
is that maybe the reason why Ionity is like 69pence per kWh ?
Great video Robert & team, always interesting content. Keep up the great work.
I can tell you the real benefit to the larger battery pack. It's for those of us who carry ski boxes or paddleboards on the roof, and mountain bikes on the back. On any given spring, summer or fall day, the range can vary greatly whilst crossing over mountain passes in British Columbia. Those are the journeys that suck the life out of your range - even in the Kia Niro EV 64kW. The paddleboards are like dragging a parachute behind you, and the bikes weigh as much as two small kids. I honestly think it's not all about people traveling long distances - it's about HOW those people are traveling. It's lifestyle.
And people that tow ( not sure u can with a ID3?) but still bigger battery enables other uses ; nice point Albert
@@simonyapp You can't tow with the ID3. You can fit a roofbox (from 3rd party vendors) and a bicycle rack on the back (max 55 kilo weight, 2 bikes).
@@mvteh not on this version.
Bigger battery makes sense when you can't charge at home. If you plug-in while doing shopping once a week, 300 mile range is perfect. Especially ar current property prices - makes more sense to pay for bigger battery than to upgrade your house.
„Upgrading“ our house with a 22kW socket (lockable) cost us around 400 Euros. Best decision we have made. We installed 22kW because the ZOE can process it, amazing.
@@achenarmyst2156 By "upgrading" I meant moving to a house with off-street parking. And considering the EV uptake - prices for those are going to skyrocket really soon.
Some people live in houses where even parking on your own street is a challenge. Because that's the best they can afford.
Nice review! Kona has a way smallest battery (64 kWh), still manages to get 300 miles of range. It really has a great efficiency. Also, Hyundai underestimate it's 0-100 time at 7.6s. It has been tested several times doing it at 6.8s. Pretty punchy!
Indeed. Most unfair calling the Kona 'compromised' because the chassis can take an ICE engine too. That's fair criticism for a lot of cars, but not that one. Hyundai/Kia did an amazing job there (better than VW with their dedicated platform).
Indeed, they achieved comparatively good efficiency when you consider:
The Kona is an ICE based car.
It's essentially there only EV (excluding ioniq electric).
They are a mainstream manufacturer, not Tesla, or a luxury brand.
Therefor, it will be interesting to see the efficiency of the new Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 based of their new dedicated EV platform. Maybe Tesla finally has some competition in terms of efficiency.
@@jay-uo2bi At this time the EPA on the ionic 5 and EV6 are well down on the kona and e-nero , I think it because these new cars are bigger SUV as the reviewers say they are bigger in the flesh than the pictures show. I am very disappointed that they did not keep the efficiency of the kona and e-nero to these new cars as the marketing department wanted a bigger SUV.
It also has flappy paddle regen, which is miles better than all other regeneration functions on any other make (barring stablemate Kia). I used to have an Ioniq, the replacement Zoe's B mode is not even close.
@@allyliddiard7320 The advantage of the paddle thing is that you get to vary the regen strength as you drive about and that means you rarely need the brake pedal? Whereas other 1-pedal arrangements have a constant regen/braking rate unless you use the brake pedal? (I have never driven any of these so wonder how the nuance works). presumably the point is that this sets a 'default' braking rate when you stop accelerating. But every car gives you a variable raking rate with the pedal. isn't a variable rate always more useful than a fixed rate? I guess one pedal that goes all the way from max acceleration at the bottom to max braking at the top (with normal operation near the middle) would be best. Not sure anyone makes that...
I never noticed having to use a brake pedal to get variable braking (on ICE cars) being tiresome (unlike clutches in queues), so I wonder how much never having to use it really matters? Do other cars not have regen/braking rate adjusters at all (other than the pedal)?
17:04: i'm glad Robert loves the Front Wheel steering ... more cars should have it :)
😀🤣
I totally agree with the range thing. I was trying to explain that to some family members but I might just send them this video instead. Good stuff as always. Real world thoughts. Thanks
I have had mine since June, it’s wonderful, smooth and simple to drive.
As an owner of an ID3 Pro, let me tell you about the experience. On one of my first trips, I used the automatic cruise control, which is really, really clever as it holds the listed speed limits. Great tech, however, shame on the company as the following day, the ACC developed a fault and needed to go in to VW for a software upgrade. The service team think it is a glitch in the software and not a real problem. On the same trip, I also got a stone chip on the M25, which, after a really cold night, turned in to a crack on the screen. At this point, my enthusiasm for the ID3, which I really like, turned in to a hate for the VW customer attitude. My local dealer wants to have the car for two days for the software upgrade and, to make things worse, there isn't a windscreen in the country, in Europe, actually there is no replacement screen for the HUD windscreen absolutely nowhere! What that means is that VW is selling its top end product without the spares needed if a consumable breaks.
Get real VW, it's a bloody marketing fail to sell a car that, when something as simple as a windscreen needs replacing, there are no spares! Chips and damage to windscreens are common occurrences and yet, you have no replacements and nobody knows how to fit it!!! My local VW garage thinks it will take up to three months to get fixed!!!!! I have no problem being an early adopter of new tech, but this is pathetic and shames the brand! For clarity, love the car, hate the brand that leaves me with a totally unusable car because they cannot be arsed to have spares and service support for daily issues before they start selling the stuff!!!!!! I truly hope someone at VW picks this up as I am dealing with your customer care people and getting nowhere. They are trying, but it's an insurance issue, so they say, but just like them, the insurance company cannot get a new screen.
Wake up VW, your potential customers will hold off ordering if you do not have the service and consumables to support the product. I know I wish I had held off ordering, this is totally unacceptable.
Worked for Audi for several years in London and that is pretty normal for the VAG group.Releasing cars with no parts or accessories. Worse now due to brexit,I have a 70k Q7 waiting for a sensor three weeks and counting,happily getting to work in my £500 focus.Everyone buys them,but they don't have the infrastructure to cope.Been that way for years.Meanwhile my wife's Kia gets delivered back same day with a new sensor washed and hoovered.
Great review. I did plump for the TM3 but mainly because only the first edition with the smaller battery was available at the time. I do find the larger battery useful though, as it means 80% to 20% (ie 60%) gives a great range without stress. IC found our other car (Leaf 40) less useful on the longer journeys.
So it does with 77kWh what the Kona does with just 64kWh - considering the battery is the biggest cost you'd think they'd put more effort into better efficiency
@@cbflazaro But a significant cost. I would be interested, roughly, how much are li-ions per kwh? I'm also intrigued where you got that data from.
More performance, less efficiency goes hand in hand.
@@Nathan-rn8yg No, absolutely not. Having a bigger motor does not mean it uses more energy at the same rate of output. It may mean marginally more weight but otherwise no. They do not go hand in hand. Anyways, the ID3 performs insignificantly better than the Kona.
@@cbflazaro where can I buy these batteries you speak of? I'd love to replace mine.
@@jay-uo2bi You can't have high output and have it sip energy too. Bigger power loads are going to draw on the batteries more hence the larger battery to get the distance.
Great positive personality and much needed information thank you
Range is something we are going to have to re-educate ourselves on. I have a 30kwh Nissan Leaf and not had an issue with range. Long journeys take a little planning but the extra stop ( has never been more than one in a long journey for me ) helps to mentally chill while driving and not be in a mad rush everywhere. 160 miles in winter is good enough for how and where I drive. I am still looking forward to the ID 1/2 it must be said.
I have a 75 Tesla and it is by far not enough. Road trips with toys= renting a combustor. I could not even make my commute with 30kwh.
It really depends who you are. For me, I would be happy with a range of just 150km. But people in different situations might require 600km range.
@@jay-uo2bi Correct, my car is fine for commuting but definitely wish I had more range during the ice storm this year or hurricane.
I so agree, we do 1500km holidays around New Zealand. Even the most remote parts of NZ have fast chargers, be it a 25kwh charger
Thankyou Robert & crew for another nice video. I have an ID3 58 kWh, and I love it. But any electric car is better than all the fossils in my book.
And although we understand why the high price due to legacy needing to produce more cars and are still building ice engines and need to swap over to make money on EV’s these ID cars need to be £20-26k on the road. £42k is not even remotely a price level but for the more affluent or people ready to spend a huge amount on a car.
China EVS will enforce a radical drop in Euro pricing...and improvement in tech / features/ range etc...before the year is out..I reckon Elon will stir everything up in the autumn with radical EV pricing too,,, :)
@BullShark Tesla price cheaper this week than last week ...
Robert, RANGE is very important for us living here in the USA, as there are vast distances to cover here, most people that live here that i have talked to , have said that when electrics car ranges hit 700 miles (70 mph for 10 hrs is usually a normal 1st stop when on vacation) then they will buy one as then it can be a 1 car household and you won't have to own another car to take long trips in, please keep this in mind when you make videos, as there are alot of us here in the states that are subscribed to you, thanks and you are doing a great job!!
Very few people could go for 10 hours straight without stopping for a comfort break or to get some food. And there are very few ICE cars that have that kind of range, so why would an EV need it?
@@JackRussell021 Where do you live??? Most ICE cars can go 400-500 miles on a tank , I didnt say we dont stop at all , but if we do , its usually only for fuel and its only for 10 -15 min, for fuel and to go in and get snacks-drinks etc , and then we are off again until the next fuel stop or 10 hrs for the day. These are the kind of trips that families make in the summer, to go visit relatives, or national parks, etc.. You could do a trip like this in a EV but it would take forever, and time is important on these trips, as one might only have a week off, so as i have stated before, when EV's get that range , the ICE will be doomed. Its not to say that a person cant buy one now and make it a 2 car family , but by making it a 2 car family, it adds a extra cost, when if the EV got 700 miles of range you could only have 1 car and have no extra cost.
The range is really helpful to enable typical commuters to only charge up roughly once a week. Its not all about a single journey.
Yep not a major concern for someone with a drive who can easily plug in overnight but it's something that's major pro for those who need to use public chargers.
Depends if you have a garage. For those who have a garage, it's really no problem to just take the 10 seconds to plug it in each night. If you have to park it outside at the roadside and there is no charger, then that may indeed be a consideration.
Completely agree (I'm in this situation). But it is an only temporary problem. Most companies have plenty of parking space and could place many low speed chargers for their employees. They could even earn some money doing it, I would sure be happy to charge at work.
Is there not a wireless slow charger avalible. You could set it up in your garage or where you leave the car and it would keep the battery sweet.
@@lvermei I think that this is the missing link. 3-5KW chargers at work, at the long stay train station car park or at the park and ride facilities. We need these more than we need endless overly expensive super rapid chargers. We need those too, but we to give the change a proper push, we need cheap slow non-driveway charging as much. And only one in every 10 - 20 spaces? not going to charge every day and most will still charge at home.
True pro moment, train whistles past in shot, starts talking stats about trains.
Re: train. The question actually is - when will the gov finally electrify the line
They are currently working on battery powered trains, this is much cheaper than overhead lines on smaller regional railways
@@dg115 that’s a mainline to Cornwall
1890 was full electrification
In Sweden they've always been fully electric as far as i know. At least for a large number of decades...
Hydrogen fuel cells will propel trains in the future, much more efficient than overhead powerlines.
We have a "standard range" (58kWh useable) ID.3 1st edition which we bought in March 2023 secondhand. We have achieved without trying 4.1 miles/kWh over 18 months. 200 mile journeys are simply not a problem even in the winter.
Our November 2020 car now has v3.2 of the software although to be honest we have never had problems that others seem to complain about.
the statement 'you only do long distances once/twice a year' is relative........we do 300km one way just to go to our weekend spot weekly. Our province Alberta is bigger than all of UK combined so either recharge stations enroute or at destination when its -30c.......not today
That's very much an American thing though. In the Uk it's very rare, like going down to the south of France or something like that.
Thanks for the channel. I find it really helpful. I really want an id3. 😊
Wait so who was the first person outside VW to drive it again? 😂
Elon musk
Vw group invited him for his opinions over the European styled mass market cars.
He drove in one if the airships in Germany
U can find the video
Rembrandt?
This is all very well but I wonder who was the first journalist to review the ID. 3?
Robert, the problems you experienced with charging at home are no surprise to me. Having had several ICE VW cars and their problems (lacking a decent QC at VW?) prompted me to buy only Japanese for the last 25 years. Never had any disappointment since. My next (=EV) car will therefore, NOT be a VW.
A lot can change in 25yrs.
@@Robert-cu9bm I know.....but not my disgust for VW which left me standing in the cold at moments most inconvenient to me. Same with BMW. (The 5 year old BMW 5 series even stopped sweeping my front window during a highway downpour in the dark!). Driving a Lexus GS300h now (plus a Jaguar XK from 2008 for the weekends, -british-!!) and (Suzuki) & Prius II, and III before that. Never ever had one single Japanese problem. Best regards from the Netherlands.
@@Robert-cu9bm yeah they got even worse.
I will never buy a VW ever again. Absolute piece of shit, fulling apart everywhere, now VW have been found out again with more lies. Shit cars, shit company.
Great video as usual and good to see the ID.3 longe range model performing pretty much as advertised. I'll be getting my first EV in the next two months and found this to be extremely helpful.
Range is a consideration for me, just like for everyone else. Until I retired last year I worked in the construction industry and did about 30,000 miles a year. I'd have probably been OK with any of the three EV's Robert refers to in the video and the rapid increase in the number and capabilities of public charge points is helping to reduce range anxiety concerns all the time.
For many people a journey of more than 200 miles will be an unusual event rather than the norm I think.
The ID.3 (58kWh) battery version on my shortlist to test drive when dealerships finally re-open next week ....... can't wait to find out how it drives and compares to the Kona, e-Niro and Ioniq that I'll also be test driving.
Will also be very keen to drive the new Hyundai Ioniq5 and Kia EV6 when they finally hit the showrooms in the UK! 😀
But do you want a suv or a normal car?
Hi Robert, enjoyed this video. How long did it take to charge the car at that last stop to get enough range to get back? Thanks for your videos 🙂
Robert, I have just ordered the Id.3 pro s tour with the 77kwh 150kwh motor.
I am happy with the range especially winter 200odd miles
I travel to Cornwall a lot and that's great news with higher temperatures.
I test drove a 58kwh battery with the 150bhp battery and it was rapid.
I presume with the extra weight of the bigger battery but with the 204bhp motor it's still pretty nippy
Cheers
I really enjoyed watching this with my master. He absolutely loves this channel and especially the id3 but he's very sad as his wife won't let him get one.
Woof?
@@tomsixsix I think it's because he said her Victoria Sponge cake was too dry 🐶
Love Roberts reviews and enthusiasm. I drive the BMW i3 at the moment , and if ever I decided to move on, it’ll be the VW id 3
Don’t, 😊 . Stay with the BMW
Can you please stop being so closed minded when it come to the need for EV’s with a long range per charge. Just because you can charge in your garage or driveway every night does not mean everybody can. The constant put down of ‘You don’t need to go 300 miles per charger’ is quite frankly insulting to the 6 million plus households in the UK who can’t even park close to there abode let alone on a driveway or in a garage. Millions of people have long daily commutes with no guarantee of a parking spot when they get home.
There is no doubt the charging infrastructure will grow to accommodate all needs in the future. But for all those people without off street parking at home or at work there will always be a need for EV’s with enough range to last the week on a single charge. If like me (in a past life thankfully) you are faced with a long daily commute (an hour and half drive each way) and 12hr shifts, stopping every night on the way home to charge the car simply is not manageable.
As of June 2020, a total of 6,642,000 households in the UK do not have off street parking. That is just the UK, most other countries face this problem as well.
The counter argument to this is normally along the line of ‘move closer to work’ or ‘change jobs’. For millions of people this is not an option and never will be.
There will always be a need for cars that can go 300 mile plus in the rain, at night, in the middle of winter at motorway speeds.
Will we get them? Yes, and it is clear they will get cheaper and charge faster. But there will always be people who will have to go out of their way to charge. Only having to do that just once a week is for many people the only option.
So having said all that, when lock down ends (hopefully soon), why don’t you do a real test. Do a 60 mile round trip commute (about an hour’s drive each way) with a 10 to 12 hour shift per day in between, for a week (yes many people have to do that). Only charge with public chargers. Then come back and talk about how people do not need a long range EV.
I would agree. I drive to Scotland (Edinburgh) several times a year from the south of England (not far from Cullompton, as it happens, a 440 mile journey), and cannot park by my house and charge. So I'd charge to 80% of that 300 miles (so 240 miles) and realistically will need to recharge twice on the journey, becaus there isn't always a charger exactly at the end of the journey. I'm not saying that that isn't doable, but it's not the irrelevance Robert makes out.
I have an EV, no charger at home. Never have any issues. 58KWh I.D3. Maybe try one before spunking facts and figures out.
@@UBERmorrison I think you should read my post before making such a comment. A 58kw battery would allow most people to go a full week on a single charge. For people who work 12hr shifts 5 days a week (like I have in the past), with long commutes, there is not much time to stop and charge during the week.
What I was getting at is the constant rhetoric of people do not need long range EV’s. With commuting, my average day was 14hrs. Leave home a 5am and back just in time to see the kids to bed a 7pm. Many people are in this position. These are not ‘spunked’ figures, this was unfortunately very real for many years.
A car like yours would have allowed me to go 3 or 4 days between a charge. That is something that could have worked in that situation but then it is a mid to higher range car. You sort or make my point. You don’t have a problem because of the range of your car.
Personally I am looking forward to getting a 4 or 5 year old BMW i3 at some point. Its 60 to 80 mile range will be more than adequate for my needs. Not something I could have said many years ago.
@@zackblack7564me too bud. I drop by a public charger a few times a week. All fine.
People don’t need long range EVs.
Totally agree. If an ICE manufacturer introduced a 5 gallon tank on their car which only did 250 miles, do you think anyone would buy it?
I used to do mobile patrol security. In the first year doing the job, my opposite shift partner and I did 197,000 miles.The rota was 24/7 weekends and a 12 hour night shift the rest of the week.
We were really up for an ID3, set up a 1 hour drive at our local outlet in Bradford, both took time out of work, arrived early.....it was still in the showroom.....then it didn’t work....then they couldn’t fix it...then we went back to work and that was that.
probably all stage, if history of pass dealers who did everything they could to not sell you a electric.
I had the distinct feeling he wasn’t interested in pushing electric, the whole experience had an odd ‘feel’ to it
@@stevenbarrett7648 gives me GM ev1 vibes
So similar. I was very keen on ID3 but poor test drive experience. Embarrassed for the salesman who couldn't unlock the car, then couldn't open the boot. It just didn't feel put together properly and then I got a very short test drive. If they couldn't be bothered to try and sell it, I couldn't be bothered to buy it. Bought a much cheaper Zoe (with a hefty discount too) which suits me for now.
Wish they were bringing this to the US. My wife needs a car soon and this would be good. Looks like the Hyundai is the next best bet
Even an ioniq is a good choice
Well we get the ID4 in the USA which looks pretty simialr
@@J4999 It really is much, much larger and expensive
@@bobqzzi definitely bigger but still a crossover not a full size suv. Also with federal tax credit it’s as low as 32,500. Not bad for a new electric car
I would consider looking at the Kia Niro EV as well. Similar range to Kona but considerably roomier. Very similar price, also. I own one and get around 270 miles range driving at 65 mph.
I love that your route was in the shape of a question mark! 🤣
Interesting review I am one of those people who does need 250mls + as i live in the highlands and "local" shopping trips to Inverness are 200ml round trips so thank goodness range is now extending to allow use the chance of using an affordable version of an EV
As most UK journeys are less than 10 miles, it would be interesting to see what range this car had doing multiple short journeys from cold.
Probably a nightmare to do, but would be very useful for those of us who'd love an EV, but can't charge at home.
it'd be a good question, given that the total range didn't fluctuate much, my guess would be it might make 10-20% difference. though i guess the upside of multiple long journeys is that it increases your odds of bumping into a convenient charger.. eg, if you are driving to the shop, or office or parking at the cinema or whatever, you only need to spot a handy charger what, one in 10 times and you'd be sorted. around here they've been installing street chargers at a pretty impressive pace as well. PLUS most short journeys will be at lower speeds, and at A-road 40mph on the bypass type roads the range will be much better than the motorway.
If you have a zappi you can't charge at home either.
@@mralistair737
Aren't EV's more efficient in town, due to the regen.
@@mralistair737 I was just thinking the battery heating the VW's apparently do might hit the range a fair bit with lots of short journeys.
not a problem in summer I'm sure, but perhaps could make a dent to range in the winter.
@@Robert-cu9bm They are more efficient in town, but not for that reason. With regen you get back some of what you used to get up to speed, but not all of it. The main reason they are more efficient in town is that speeds are far lower. This is where an ICE losses out in a big way, because with an ICE you have to use a lower, less efficient gear to keep the engine within its working range.
Thank you once again Robert. One thing though. With petrol cars people don’t have the daily worry of refuelling if they only use them as quoted, i.e. going to work, shopping etc. Instead it’s usually a once a week thing. Most people think this way when they see an electric vehicle not going for the whole four or five hundred miles between “fill ups”, not the all-in-a-day affair.
During the next few years not only will the charging network grow but the petrol stations will start to close down.
@@johnmightymole2284 Indeed. And one day, in the not too distant future, EV range will be measured in months, not miles. (We only measure it in miles because that’s the way we’ve done so since the petrol days.) That’s the day I’ll buy an EV. Meanwhile, all those who buy into the (expensive) idea are guinea pigs. Thank you guinea pigs …
Internet tells me the ID3 has a drag coefficient of 0.267, versus the Model 3's 0.23. Power requirements go up with the square of air speed so that ~0.03 difference could actually account for the efficiency...
Power requirements go up with the cube of air speed. And yes, saying that the higher consumption of the ID.3 is due bad software is nonsense that Robert can’t proof. And that coming from a person rightly constantly pointing at the fake news of the general press on EVs. 😡
@@e-redj
Aerodynamic drag F = 0.5 x fluid density x velocity SQUARED x coefficient x area
So is your misunderstanding of aerodynamics fake news or just a simple mistake? 'cause people make mistakes all the time...
@@Smidge204 Yes, the force is proportional to the velocity square, but he was talking about Power requirements. Power equals force times velocity, thus power is proportional to velocity cube.
Thanks, I was looking for this comment, it is drag coefficient, not software that caused lower efficiency.
That being said software does look like a problem in this car and a reason I would not buy it at the moment.
Spot on, there's the missing efficiency. Still, it is a more useful hatchback with nicer controls and much more affordable than a Tesla.
Thanks Robert for another great video, in relation to range In Australia we still would like to have 1,000km’s approx 600odd miles for towing capacity and being able to travel the distances we need to travel. It’s what we do on the weekends.
You probably have to wait some years more
Bob, I think people who say they need a car to do 500 miles on a full tank of fuel need to understand that when you have an electric car you have your own “petrol station “ on your driveway. Plus your “petrol station” has got the lowest cost per litre than any petrol forecourt! Hope that explanation makes sense. 😄
Need your own driveway though
The people who want 500 miles are not visiting their home within that 500 miles. So the cheap and easy fuel station at home is good for the first 500 miles, but no help at all after that (so reminding them about it won't help). I'm one of those people (I'd actually be happy with 300 miles, although I do enjoy my current 600, and use it regularly). I can probably manage with 200 but will have to change how I do things. But nobody actually makes a 200 mile van yet, although the new PSA's are close, and probably will do that on a nice summers day if you take it easy (but nowhere near in winter). So yes we agree that people who demand 500 miles range _and_ do most of their trips
@@xxwookey Agree totally. If you don't have a driveway or are consistently doing more than 250 mile journeys, then still EV's are not right. There are very few people (as a % of total vehicle sales) who do anything like 250 miles per week.
@@slhslh9038 Of course. I agree that the range thing is wildly overemphasised by people who don't use EVs and that the vast majority of people could already use them just fine, at least for smaller vehicles (which is why we are heading up the S-curve of adoption quickly, at least). I was just pointing out the logic error in what the OP said.
Thank you for this, decision made and ordered 👍🚙
I really like the ID3 dash.
Thanks for translating the miles to kilometers :)
Front wheel steering ? Is that a feature that needs calling out ? I thought every car did that !
ran out of good things to say I guess XD
Drive axle is back, so you can turn on a coin...
Well, the up-and-coming Mercedes EQS will do all-wheel steering... :P
If you throw it into reverse they become rear wheels, so it's good to get this clarification! 😆🤣
@@streetwind. oh yes that's a bargain at 80k plus
Having the option of a bigger range, and people realising it's just not required will help remove the barriers that get put up against thinking about going electric. During a 'normal' longer journey people won't drive more than 2 - 3 hours without a break, and the rapid charging is already at a point where it's able to extend range during a short break for most people's needs.
Getting the second-hand market so there are cars that can do 150-200 miles for the price of a new small hatchback is pretty key in getting extended take-up. To me, being able to go somewhere 50 miles away and get back without needing to charge, even in the coldest worst weather, while still having a spare 15-20 miles at the end is my kind of minimum mark.
How much range does it lose in winter?
What happens if you floor it a few times?
More range is always a good thing.
That's why hot hatches don't make 100 bhp anymore, for example.
ICE cars are less efficient and also lose range in winter.......
Drinking a shot every time Bobby mentions going to South Africa to drive the ID3 demo car. 🍻
As a taxi driver you never know where you are going with the next fare so half way through a shift I couldn't do a trip from Darlington to Manchester Airport without stopping for a charge.
Taxi drivers are the ones that need the legs of miles for convenience to the customer.
Robert. Love the program. Love the info. But can you please at least accept that there are some motorists who don't follow the usage pattern that you propose. I would love to have an electric car and i will as soon as it's practical for me. But my usage pattern is that i don't commute, i rarely use the car for short journeys but i do make long journeys multiple times per year. I drive from Kent to the midlands, round trip, once a month, plus i drive to Denmark and back twice a year. I also don't chug along at 67mph on the motorway like on this video. Like many uk drivers i drive at more like 75-80. Factor all this in and there are very few EVs that would suit my driving profile right now. I realize that you need to tailor your content to the majority of users but please don't totally ignore those of us on the fringe of motoring.
You’ve said it, software problems and I wouldn’t buy one until it’s sorted.
You don't have to wait until the software is perfected. Remember that the ID.3 has OTA software updating capability. Updates will be pushed to the cars as the software is continually improved over time, while you are enjoying a fantastic, well built car in the meantime.
It is actually quite sorted. Software version 2.1 is out now and going OTA, huge improvements. I would not see that as a reason not to buy one right now.
Well built? That plastic bucket?
@@chillout1109 biased comment is way too biased. Too many software issues for a new car, huge NO GO for every non biased and reasonably minded fellow
@@chillout1109 I wouldn't buy one if it was thrown after me. The dealerships here in Norway has a terrible history in poor customer care. Anything VAG related is a no go for me. And I'm not interested in buying a new car with a new car pricetag to be a Beta software tester
My 77kwh Pro S is being delivered in May. Looking forward to giving a proper range check on the hills and turns of the coastal A roads from Hampshire to Devon!
I completely agree that logically I don't need that sort of range 99% of the time but occasionally when I do need to get to my elderly parents (245 miles) I want a car that would get me there in one go, which is what I am currently used to. So I am always torn when considering EVs between what I think I need and what I would really use every week.
Many EVs do over 245miles of range. Plus that is nearly 4 hours of driving. If you stop for a toilet break and a coffee you could easily charge your car for 10 to 20 mins and get a decent amount of range on a level 3 charger.
Regarding range, I like to stop every couple of hours on a long journey in any case, just to pace myself. If you're doing the legal speed limit that's 140 miles. If you want to push your luck at 80 mph it's still only 160 miles. Sot it's perfectly convenient to stop and charge then. Sure, at 80 you're consuming a lot faster - but still. I drove up to Scotland in my Hyundai Kona 64kw and reckoned the whole journey took me maybe 45 minutes longer than if I'd been in my old diesel.
It'll probably be another 4 to 5 years before I could buy an electric car, can't wait to see what's out then 😎👍
Hopefully VW will have a second generation out then with way better software, solid state battery and 400 mile range.
I, before lock down, regularly had to drive 300 miles, mostly motorway, driving in a day. I typically stop after 2-2.5 hrs for a comfort break and coffee. What I need is an EV which will do just over 220 miles at an average of 70-75 mph. The reason is that the most I will drive in one go is 200 miles and then I want enough range to go to the next motorway stop if the chargers at my normal stop are not working.
ID3 Pro S meets those requirements, shame it is a bit too pricey
If you're doing those miles you'll make HUGE fuel savings.
Obviously the maths doesn't work if you're running an 8 year old Passat.
You NEED to show the km every time you say miles, this was more or less without any information for me (and most of the world). Just a little 282km or 15kwh/100km popping up in the corner.
Reviewers who keep telling us we don't need 400 miles range are all people who have somewhere to charge the car overnight or at work, there are millions of drivers without off street parking or charging at work who would have to make specific trips to charging station much like they do for fuel now, my drive to work and back is 40 miles and I have nowhere to charge an electric vehicle, my current car does 2 weeks between fill ups and then takes about 5 minutes to get another two weeks worth of miles put back into, until they can match that there are a huge amount of people who will stick with internal combustion, even if it means holding on to an older car because they can't buy them new any more..
The motors between Tesla and vw are different. Efficiency of the Tesla is better than vw in high velocities
I’d rather have the fifth seat than the bigger battery. Great review, Rob!
You can have both
I just prefer the kona because of its efficiency. and the kona 2 even has solar cells!
Greetings from the U.S. Something I don't see mentioned is how differently one can approach charging with the large battery. We have a Chevrolet Bolt EV Premier, and an early 1st gen Nissan LEAF. Our driving style allows us to drive beyond our Bolt's 259 mile estimated range. Now, when I'm commuting, The farther place I have to report to on night shifts is a 40 mile round trip - certainly in the range of a small battery EV. My day station is half this. Just looking at this, it looks good for your argument. Now, I have the capacity to engage in measures that work to ensure the longest possible life of my battery. I only charge to 80% for my local needs, and then charge at about 20%. Most weeks due to my work rotation, charging occurs for me about once per week. This further de stresses the battery as they ultimately do have a limit on the number of charge cycles they will handle before they degrade to the point of being useless. The longer range allows me to also use this vehicle for vacations, where such distances and more are an occurrence. I've been on a couple of trips where the end result was over a thousand miles traveled. Being able to use the same vehicle, instead of jumping into a petrol powered one make it worth the cost. My Partner and I have plans this fall to embark on a journey that will at the end of it, have us traveling over 4,000 miles, and We'll be using the Bolt for this trip. So the higher range makes the EV a practical and useful long distance car, as well as the regional commuter and daily life banging around duties. Even if we moved to the U.K. (something that I wouldn't mind actually), We would still spec the higher capacity battery, just to allow us to use the car fully, even those days when we want to go about the countryside, exploring the area to it's fullest. Our LEAF however, at 49k miles, due to both the low capacity and poor chemistry, has lost nearly 25% of its capacity, due in part to it having to be constantly recharged after every use. It's now regulated to the very local, very close neighborhood type of use. It'll be cycled out for the ID Buzz, if VW ever gets it here, and we plan on spec'ing the 111kw battery.
I drive 225km to work. I live in northern Sweden and it is cold with long winters. I need a car that can do that in -30C.
Sure, I don't drive there and back every day but it is still 225km there and 225km back home.
Please visit up here and do range tests when the pandemic is over.
Damn, then load a bit in between...
@@0Turbox Then I need a Tesla. There are six or eight superchargers and one single charger for other cars about 2/3 of the way starting from home.
Been excited about the ID.3 since you first drove it back in South Africa. I'm ID.3 Tour (77KWh) is turning up before then end of the month ( Regulaly do over 180 miles in a day for work so mainly for range in the winter). Glad you mentioned about the Zappi as I have just had mine installed ready for moving from my Diesel Golf looks like its an issue when charging above 80% Thanks for the great video as always.
Now that's interesting... is it an intentional cut off to help the battery's longevity? Or a quirk of the id3 cutting off the charge?
@@randomdaveUK people over on the myenergi forum have been talking about it in depth seems to be mostly buggy software. Software 2.1 appears to have cleared some of the issues but I suspect the car that Robert was driving had that already so clearly not fully. Going to be a difficult entire into the ev market for me if the charger won't work with the car properly. Will just have to charge for free at work :3
@@cooljohnpoole there's great scrutiny on everything an EV can do, but even more scrutiny on what it can't. Many looking to point out flaws. These cars need to arrive mostly flawless to aid adoption.
If software is the only issue that's not bad, it's not great of course, but that can be upgraded over the air.
I'm hopeful for VW in the EV space and pretty sure Tesla will continue to improve. The future looks good for this switch to EVs.
@@randomdaveUK completely agree noone also looks at what and EV can do Vs a ICE I am thuroughly looking forward to without even leaving the house getting the car warm on a cold winter's day before I leave not having to de-ice. And coming home after a long day knowing I'm not going to have to go via a petrol station at the crack of dawn as the car will be topped backup over night. And the thought of a car getting better with time . . . That doesn't happen in a ICE car unless you remap the engine which has risks on its own. Oh and the £5 fill up rather than £50. I could go on 😜
@@cooljohnpoole on the petrol pump front, many say "oh it only takes 5 mins to fill up"...
It doesn't, it would take me 20-25 mins and I have a petrol station less than 5 mins away from me, and it's a deviation from my route, plus the getting there and back is never mentioned by EV critics.
You'll have the car charging while you sleep. Enjoy your new car 😁😁
Are you at cullompton services I always stop there going to Cornwall and will be doing in May all being well
Just love it! ID3 is awesome. Robert describes the car as it is - a game changer indeed!
Please make an episode on dogs in all these new cars. Many SUV are not coping with a dog cage in the trunk.
And a child seat !
I have the same problem. I’ve currently got a Nissan X-Trail and a Honda C-RV before it mainly because of their ability to swallow a dog crate plus all of the other family items we carry about.
Gava, suppose it depends on how big your dogs are "Chihuahua or St Bernard" and how many you are putting in your car?
@@briankavanagh7191 yes completely right! Just let’s take a medium cage for a 15kg dog with known size. It will be easier to relate to your own dog.
@@gava7743 my dog is a lhasso x jack russell small and a cage to fit her would easily fit into my MGEV.
Unfortunately in Australia I drive one way to work 420 km. 250 km one way to shops. 600 km is really the minimum range needed and few EVs have that.
How could you not say anything about the EV van parked next to the charger? That seemed a lot more interesting than a car you already reviewed once.
I was recently in the market for my first EV and I was deciding mostly between the ID3 and the Kona. I prefer the look of the ID3 and prefer that it is rear wheel drive, but I went for the Kona because it had more features that I wanted and seemed easier to live with. I've not had it long, but I'm very happy with my choice so far.
Fully charged testing my patience again. Didn’t do the range test cos I couldn’t be bothered come on rob.
Bjorn will do a 1000km challenge this weekend with the 77kWh ID3 if I'm not mistaken.
Exactly. What was the point of making a range test video and then not testing the full range? Nothing here that hasn't been already covered before.
This is tomorrow's world not open university (1980s UK TV reference)
"How about UK range..... Sufficient"? (Which is what he told you at least 4 times)
He literally said
"It outranged me..... I could have charged at that point but I didn't....."
It's established a "base" mileage of 280.
Indicated that a "comfort break" at UK services would allow 20(?) Minutes extra charge, let's say 120 miles?
If you *were* on the motorway only getting 2.6 miles per kWh and you *average* 65mph (realistic) that's a max of 320 miles, call it 300, so 4.6 hours, I'd be ready for lunch?
Out-ranges the driver..... All we need to know.
100% to flat that’s a range test ffs
Cost - iD3 Pro Performance & Tesla SR+ (with heat pump & stock aero wheels):
iD3 - £42,699
Tesla - £40,990
Battery Pack:
iD3 - 62.0 kWh, (58.0kWh usable)
Tesla - 55.0kWh, (50.0kWh usable)
Real Range est. - Cold weather combined:
iD3 - 180 miles
Tesla - 170 miles
Real Range est. - Mild weather combined:
iD3 - 250 miles
Tesla - 240 miles
Performance - 0-62 mph:
iD3 - 7.3 sec
Tesla - 5.6 sec
Cargo volume:
iD3 - 385L (frunk volume - 0L)
Tesla - 542L (frunk volume - yes, but no data)
Towing weight - Unbraked:
iD3 - 0kg
Tesla - 750kg
Auto Pilot & over the air updates:
iD3 - No
Tesla - Yes
These battery sizes get you anywhere.
You are allowed to do 70 Robert. Go on, you might like it ;)
I'm sure they'd have been selective when the speed was in shot, well at least I hope so as motorway traffic moves at 75-85mph. Doing 60 odd is basically hypermiling but that's essentially part of the deal with special interest content.
Seemed to have the cruise set at 67 .... hmmm
Especially when testing and you're trying to burn electrons
My metric for if electric cars are ready is when I can go 350km at 110km/h in cold scandinavian winter (so heater on) and the price is below 500k SEK.
The range need is because that's a trip I make a few times a year. Going further than that I can make stops to charge, but it would be a real hassle to have to charge for that specific trip.
The plan is to get an electric car 2025, so I really hope it's available by then. It's looking bright, more available choices coming out all the time, now just need to get that price down.
I'm a cab driver in London would love to have one of these to beat the CC.
Grab yourself a Kia e Niro you'll never look back
Not the new London cab?
Nex year even EV's will have to pay the congestion charge
@@_Rafiki. I thought that was only plug in hybrids
@@Robert-cu9bm I'm a PCO driver
Keen to see what VW does with this car as time goes on, 2022 , 2023 models etc its the right size for me hopefully Australia can bring in some incentives to purchase EV
How often have VW been updating their software in their ID cars?
More to the point, how long?
Wasn't the launch delayed 6 ish months?
@@rogerstarkey5390 Launch was not delayed...but shipped with buggy Software...and earlier owners signed that they know this and got some incentives...3 month free leasing.
There were some updates and now there is 2.1, which is able to do OTA...updates after this do not need visit of garage anymore.
I regularly do 260-300 miles in a single day between Bristol and London and this is by no means a long journey in the UK.
When I go to Scotland and back it's well over 800 miles in 2 days, sometimes one day. Maybe I'm a statistical outlier but I very much doubt that.
So you come straight back from London [140m]? You don't stop somewhere there?
You absolutely are a statistical outlier if you *regularly* do 260-300 miles a day. That’s absurdly uncommon.
@@snowstrobe your point is?
@@caerphoto I regularly drive to London and back from Bristol which is not uncommon, check the map
Ionity being ICEd at the end by the van?
Hi Robert, was getting a zappy charger for my iD3, rethinking this now. Jeff Perrin.
I always wonder why people ask for a car that needs a range any higher than this in the uk? I mean I don’t have a petrol station on my drive but I would be able to refuel an electric car at my home. It seems to me that makes electric cars the best option for everyone. Hopefully I’ll be getting a electric car soon.
Why ask for less?
Less what?
Its nice to do a round trip without having to stop and charge. Also some people drive to Europe on holidays - like I do to Spain. Also remember you hardly ever get stated range and over over 100k Miles you may lose 10% of range as batteries degrade over time and charge cycles. You are recommended not to fully charge or discharge - 90% down to 10% leaving 80% of stated range 80% of 300 is 240! And who wants to left stranded because they ran out of fuel - so you avoid getting below 10%. Another point is larger batteries have fewer charge cycles for a given Mileage. So Long range Model is warranted for 120K Miles and Standard range fro 100k Miles because it will need more charge cycles to achieve that Mileage.
Everyone? Not everybody can charge at home and wake up to a full "tank". I had a look at charging in my town of some 60k population - mostly Victorian / Edwardian properties with no off road parking. There are six public chargers, two 3kw in a local supermarket & four 7kw in the station car park. Nirvana is a long way away yet.
@@jinxvrs
People also seem to forget a lot of people rent, so can't install a charger even if they have off street parking.
I really wish I could afford an ID.3, any model. It seems like a really solid car and I very much like the design.
"You don't drive 173 miles on your commute". I do. My commute is 95 mile each way (190 miles) with zero charging stations along the way. Plus it gets proper cold here (-35 degrees). So, yeah, Some of us have different situations.
Kona EV will do that with -35f easy, both ways without stopping.
Many EVs are already capable of that.
But why are you doing this to yourself? Think how much of your life you're wasting on commuting.
He was talking about the UK.
I'm going to go out and say that this is an insane situation and you are wasting huge amounts of your life sitting in a car.. you need to move house or workplace! . so designing for your circumstance wouldn't be totally logical. However it would actually work with this car, and if your workplace installed a few chargers then it'd work with pretty much every electric car on the market.
@@1701_FyldeFlyer nowhere in the UK hits -35C, unless they’re talking about Wick
Would be interesting to calculate the energy efficiency of German ICE or S-Bahn - fully electrified. Concerning the ID.3 I like it very much and range even with the standard 58 kWh is really good. Travel assist and HUD are really nice (I've bought the ID.3 Tech).
Is that an electric van in charging bay 1?! I’m guessing not and it’s just been iced.
you can get Mercedes-Benz eSprinter either 41kwh or 55kwh battery pack as a engine option from mb
I really like Fully Charged but in this review it wasn't even mentioned that the VW ID.3 Pro S only has 4 seats in this configuration. Because of the bigger battery there is no middle seat in the back, a rather important aspect to consider in a purchase decision in my opinion..
It is available as 5 seater in the meanwhile, too...called "Tour 5" with 77kwh
@@josefv-y8m Oh thanks :-) I did not know that! Still good to know that "Pro S" has only 4 seats and "Tour 5" 5 seats. Though in Germany the base price of Pro S is ~42T€ and Tour 5 is ~48T€, Tour 5 has other extra features (e.g. Travel Assist) included in the base price but if you just want 5 seats you have to pay 6T€ extra, weird pricing if you ask me :D.
You are wrong there. The only model with the 77kWh battery is the Pro S Tour and it is strictly a four seater car. That should not be a problem to most people as it is very rare that you transport that many people.
“ The software wokrs absolutely flawlessly”. Wait a minute. A the beginning of the video you said the car would not charge properly on the 11Kw Zappi charger, and you blamed the car, not the charger.
I think he was talking about the cruise control only, not the software generally in the whole car. That is how I took that particular statement!
He said for the functions inside and driving the car. Question mark remains on charging management and optimising efficiency.
Thanks for using also the metric system.
I think it's not fair to say "It's super fuel efficient" if it is 10% less efficient that a much fester car that is 4 years old.
It's... quite fuel efficient, but I'm sure they can improve.
size of battery and length of range is not just necessary for long journeys, its necessary for drivers who have no means to charge at home... bigger battery and longer range means less trips to a charger...
You charge the car when you're doing something else like taking a break, shopping or you're at work. The idea of 'less charging' isnt the same as less refilling an ICE car becauseyou dont physically have to be with the car to do it, unlikean ICE.
Totally agree. I managed for a few years with a low range (
The moment VW settle the diesel-gate UK court case and pay out, is the moment I’d ever consider buying or leasing their vehicles again.
Cutting off your now to spite your face.