It's worth noting in regards to your final point with Paul, that when Hidgens asks the group to sing Moana to prove they aren't infected, Paul is the one who gets most of the song on point!
@@elishaoloughlin3287 I think I heard that somewhere and it totally clicks in my brain. The idea that he feels powerless and trapped as an audience member in a dark theatre, but can enjoy a kids’ movie from a more comfortable position of authority? That tracks.
Here's some implications for you to think about: the very beginning of the musical has the characters singing about how Paul doesn't like musicals and how they hate him for it. The entire musical is the Aliens putting on a show of how they triumphed over Paul.
@@savvy3tv632 It's very meta in a way even the name of the musical "The guy who *didn't* like musicals" didn't because he does like them now, and we actually see Emma get dragged off stage during the credits/ending with the bowing by the infected characters to be infected off stage.
The beginning of the musical, the ensemble sang "the guy who didn't like musicals", but when Paul didn't come out when they sang "enter nowwww", they sang "the guy just DOESN'T like musicals". So my theory is that Paul is still semi-conscious the whole time and can resist their control once in a while. And it's the aliens who KEEP Paul conscious, to torture him. They said "[the shotgun] is too quick a death for you, Paul" and they meant it. He's in his personal hell now😭 I'd like to think that the little time Paul could control his body once in a while, he spends them fucking up the aliens' musicals. That's why they call him a POS😂 I'm too obsessed with this musical 😅
@@voicetalethat could be the alien in Emma's body mocking how she struggled when they did get to her. Like, she sang in the title song... as Emma... singing the line "a cute lil barista", essentially singing about herself in third person. So an alien playing Emma would make sense in this context.
a detail i really liked, is at the end when emma thinks she's made it and they're giving her a new life, and tell her she'll have a huge plot of land where she can have her pot farm. maybe it wasn't a secret, but the only person we actually see her tell that too is paul during their little heart to heart when she opens up about her sister. it was probably the hive mind using that information from him
I think it probably isn't that, as the show goes on the infected are less and less able to hold non-musical conversation. with Alice, Deb, and smoke club girl they had to harmonize to talk "normally" and when we see the nurse in the last scene (who is revealed to have been infected) and then later paul, neither of them say a word until the song starts and then they sing. its a detail that I personally love in any media, where a character in disguise can't talk because their voice will reveal them
I freaken loved the part where emma turns to the audience and breaks the forth wall by asking them to do something. Both really funny and kind of terrifying
An interesting idea I saw in a comment on the musical about "Inevitable": Emma finally losing all hope that paul might still be himself at the "show stopping number" section because it is the first song in the medley she KNOWS he wasn't present for
The one thing that makes me hesitant to believe Alien Alice is telling the truth is that they blatantly lie about Deb being a druggie/pusher, Deb is actually a cool person who didn't like the "smoke club" pushing.
I would interpret that more so as Alice leaving out parts of the truth to further hurt Bill. At the party in the beginning, where we see Deb & Alice, Deb is against the "smoke club" pushing her to smoke, but it's never confirmed that she doesn't also smoke herself. It's the peer pressure that she's openly against. We're never told directly how they got to that party, but it is implied that Deb brought Alice there when Bill says that Alice is spending all of her time with Deb.
@@goobrious7505I do think the fact she calls Deb a “hardcore smoker” despite quitting the smoking club definitely makes me think the aliens are using the knowledge as weapons. Not to mention the alien commander talking about making it great again when the real commander knows its flawed and holds the human freedom above it.
@@four_girls_in_search_of_awesom Yeah that's kinda what I'm saying. Deb can be against the Smoke Club trying to pressure her girlfriend into smoking but that doesn't mean she isn't also a stoner. There's a difference between smoking and trying to force others into doing it too and in my experience many real life stoners understand that the polite thing to do is to let other people decide whether or not they wanna smoke for themselves.
@@goobrious7505 Thing is, we're listening to the aliens saying this. Like everything seems opposite from what was established... Ted - Cheats on his wife so much, he does it in other universes. Alien Ted - Loves his wife. Charlotte - While angry, does care for Ted. Alien Charlotte - Just attacks him, not even trying. Alice - Really doesn't seem to want to be with her father, just her girlfriend. Alien Alice - I wanted to be with you daddy. McNamara - Willing to break the Government's order for the Human Spirit. Alien McNamara - Follow the rulers. Even Paul's "maybe this is the real me" is closer to the aliens trying to control his mind than a true realization. Like the real Paul I feel is build up prior to that. From not wanting to go with a co-worker to willing to help a friend. From having no interest in helping a charity to willing to sacrifice himself to save the world. You even see the difference in the final song: "What if I told you I made it, and this is the life that I chose?" We seen him choose to hate musicals before blowing up the theater.
I think that the only time someone was singing by choice in TGWDLM was when Hidgens sang in Show Stopping Number. He made the active choice to do so, knowing full well the infected would be drawn to them and he would join them. The fact that he chose to give up his free will and life is horrifying, but like so many other things in the musical you don't think about the implications because of the silliness of the song. And the fact that Emma thought she had made it out with Paul in the end, only to find out Paul had been infected? It's truly terrifying, cause we as an audience think they made it out together until Paul starts singing. wonderful musical, truly one of my favorites :D
I think you're right, even Emma's boss and coworker whose whole thing was that they had theatre ties and liked to insert singing into their job never sang until after they were infected.
I saw a video that stumbled upon a point that you made about the "I want" song. Every good musical has one, but this show purposely circumvented it. They basically called What Do You Want Paul an "Anti I Want" song. What I noticed at the end, when Paul is talking to General MacNamera about Emma, finally uses the phrase "I want," shortly after falling victim to the hive mind. Maybe it's nothing, but I feel like stating his desire made him vulnerable.
i definitely agree! Before he formulated his want, the hivemind had very little to use. Someone who doesn't seem to want anything isn't a very good musical character after all.
I agree 100% - but he does technically say (or more likely Scream) an “I Want” right at the start of the musical; during What Do You Want Paul, when his boss is dancing around/past him (I think the second time when things are getting more aggravated), Paul very briefly shouts “I wanna to Go Home!” - it’s one of those Throwaway Lines that I originally thought his Boss actually said (since his back was towards the camera) but yeah - idk if that counts as a proper “I Want” though, but it’s an interesting thing to note
I totally agree! He thinks in terms of what he doesn’t want, and easily enforces his boundaries and tells people no. Other than that he’s quite passive in life, I love his radical acceptance litany of OKs 😂 The second he leaned more toward wanting Emma, than NOT wanting to be in a musical, our boy was doomed 😭
So I think one of the songs that really demonstrates the whole "death-like process" thing you were talking about (where the new versions of the people still retain that human memory) is one that kind of gets overlooked plot-wise. Mr. Davidson sings an incredibly personal song with zero embarrassment or affectation other than his plastic smile--- Until it's important for him to feel like a human/like himself would about not getting what he wants (emphasized by "Paul now you know what it is to want!" directly afterward when he goes back into alien mode). He goes from completely unphased and calling up his wife, to suddenly being very human and incapable of telling her honestly what he wants... he's allowed to tap into that human memory and emotion solely to make a point, and we seem him really falter and regret not being able to say it to Carol. But the song itself is so outrageous that again- you don't think about the implications.
also, I love this idea of paul feeling small in the face of something like a musical. I think if you take into account the character from the entirety of nightmare time and tgwdlm, then going with his backstory it makes sense that he would feel... unremarkable and slightly insignificant. Someone like Emma who felt both larger than life in her willingness to just... go and do things... but also was dealing with everyday problems like the rest of us. Someone like Emma really gave him a sense of having a story; there was someone who made him feel important because of who he was, and not solely because he was the perfect leading man (although let's face it... Paul rocks lol)
I always think about how the last song begins with the words “Emma, I’m sorry.” Does this imply that part of Paul is still conscious and trying to apologize for failing saving her, or is it the hive mind mocking her by following it with “you lost”
There are parts of almost every song or lines that imply that people can fight the infection (they just can’t win against pokey). We see this with Sam, Alice, Paul, and McNamara. From my memory
@joshred1571 Paul's boss also does this, he goes to call his wife and tell him his desire to be choked while jerking off, but then (I assume) Pokey stops him from expressing himself in anyway that doesn't help the infection spreading
The best example of having to think about the implications though, is the fact that the show isn't called The Guy Who Doesn't Like Musicals, but The Guy Who DIDN'T Like Musicals
that's another hint at the infection! the aliens know that when talking about women, people tend to make that motion with their hands... but they don't understand exactly why people make that motion or what it represents, so they end up doing it for far too long
Man I love this musical. I would say, as a counterpoint, I personally believe that there’s nothing left of the people as they were but their memories and a useful helping of their emotions, I.e. Charlotte’s rage. (The cast commentary talks about Charlotte in such a fun way, I admit bias towards their views) I think MacNamara is actually a good example of this. When he and Paul talk (and he’s hypothetically not infected yet) he’s clearly a bit weird and a free spirit and agrees to help Paul. Who he is post-infection is an absolute pastiche of a soldier. When the hive mind doesn’t explicitly need the memories of the specific host bodies, it reverts to using surface level stereotypes of the ‘characters’ that the people are. Whatever works best for the ‘part’ that’s being played. Nora in the Beanie’s scene (exhausted sort of jerk of a manager) vs Cup of Roasted/Poisoned Coffee (smiling chorus member) and even Sam between his opening scene (dickhead who is cheating on his wife but ultimately just guy playing up being macho), Show Me Your Hands (the most stereotypical stereotype to ever stereotype) and Tied Up My Heart (hints of the guy Charlotte married/wants to have married, whatever works best to convince her to untie him) are great examples of the ‘real’ people and the ‘roles’ the aliens have. I love horror and I love Starkid. I could talk about it for ages and this video really hyped me up. Amazing job.
Counterpoint: in Join Us and Die, the lyrics directly state “your own body/is your front row seat/to die” I take this to mean once apotheosis is upon a certain character, they become an audience member in their own body. This can explain how the infected can access memory, and makes the fact that we are in fact audience members kinda terrifying.
The ending made me sob the first time I saw it and goddamn it you made me cry all over again 😭Poor Paul The fear of becoming what you hate... The necessary embarrassment of expressing your emotions... The implication that Paul isn't fully infected yet... Getting close to someone is terrifying and embarrassing but you have to do it to be happy even though it can feel like giving up your independence
And it just hits different as an aromantic person who once compared romantic attraction to a hivemind Like everyone else is obsessed with this thing while I've based my identity around disliking it, but sometimes Im scared I'm missing out.
Important to note as well that TGWDLM is a deconstruction of the average musical, down to the very premise, especially when you lay it out in simple words: a man who dislikes musicals learning the value of musical theatre through the power of song. That’s what I assumed the musical would be when I watched it for the first time, too. Paul is the Hive’s chosen protagonist-everything in the entire musical is set up to have him be the hero, have him save the day-there are multiple occasions wherein Paul is disadvantaged and cornered by the Hive but they let him go. I don’t think that’s coincidence, I think that’s intentional on the Hive’s end, to help along his ‘character development’ and to build him up to be the main character. Plus, Paul’s introduction by the Hive sets him up to seem like a horrible person for disliking musicals, to expect a grumpy guy that you would assume will grow to be less grumpy about musicals by the end of the story. What we get is… not that. Paul is a stand up guy, very kind, outside of his self-worth issues he never really NEEDED character development (we can see this in the multiple iterations of Paul we get across the series, as well). And at the end of the musical, we get the ‘cliche’ ending-Paul learns to love musicals, and most horrifying of all, his song at the end reminds us of this idea of ‘getting the girl’ at the end of a musical, of winning her heart. It’s a wonderful deconstruction of tropes in a way that is utterly horrifying to me.
One of the best thing about this musical that you didn’t mention was the opening number. Everyone sings, even though the meteor hasn’t technically fallen yet. Implying that this has already happened, and the aliens are just telling the story of their origin on earth.
I also find it good evidence that Paul actually did watch Musicals, because almost every time one is brought up in the show he knows it. When Professor Hidgens forces everyone to sing the opening to Moana, the only one who actually knows all the words is Paul
I hate the other implication (but have you thought about the implications?) that a part of Paul chose not to destroy the spore before he was fully infected - that the aliens surrounding it seemingly knew him well enough to be confident to the point they knew that once he was slightly infected and had the slightest chance of feeling happy that he wouldn't be able to resist it. Perhaps there was also a part of him that thought Emma would be happier like this as well :(
I need more video essays about Team StarKid productions in my life (also shows by The Tin Can Brothers like Solve It Squad Returns and Spies Are Forever, ESPECIALLY Spies Are Forever)
Silvana Ltd. has a really good video about Spies Are Forever called "Spies Are Forever Decoded" if you haven't seen it. It talks allot about the queer coding of Curt Mega and the role that 1950s history plays in enhancing the story based on the fact that he's gay. I'd check it out if you haven't seen it.
So, speaking of implications, I think it's interesting that you seem to err on the side that the alien hivemind is ultimately allowing the infected a degree of autonomy and happiness, because I did not get that impression. Thinking through "the implications" of a few lines, I saw a much darker outcome. First, Sam's line in "Tie up my heart" is 'this body's not gonna last, the air is cold and thick' which implied to me that these creatures can't survive in our atmosphere normally and use our bodies, but that they can't use them indefinitely. We'll wear out and die, likely because of the spore creatures using us as nourishment. Why do I think that's the case? Well, where did that big space rock come from? One can really only assume this is part of its life cycle, the Hive envelops a world, feeds on every possible host body until resources are depleted, then the hollowed out works cracks apart and the Hive drifts on to consume another planet. Because, in "Inevitable" Paul gives us another 'implication' line. "Let me plant my seed. The Hive needs to feed, Happiness is guaranteed" Planting his seed without Emma's consent, framing it in the predatory sense of her infection being the Hive 'feeding' on her, and that Happiness and peace? An illusion, while our bodies are rotted and consumed from the inside by a massive, spored, intergalactic apex predator. Anyway, that's my theory. Made sense to me.... when I considered the implications 😉
However, who's to say the happiness is an illusion. It is still possible they give them happiness, just not eternal happiness. They would die out eventually without the aliens and we don't know when the aliens would die out either. Happiness tends to be temporary anyways, so the promise still stands in my eyes.
Thank you! I know everyone loves Twisted but it is brilliant in Team StarKid's already established canon. TGWDLM sits by itself. Someone doesn't need to know their previous catalogue or even like their style to get this piece. For me it actually brought me into the fold. It changed how they thought of themselves and what they are capable of.
I 100% headcanon Paul as autistic, with one of my reasons why actually being his hatred of musicals. As an autistic person with bad sensory issues related to sound, live musicals can be very overwhelming without being prepared. Paul doesn’t seem annoyed by the singing, but rather confused, frightened, and overwhelmed, things most introverted people with noise sensitivities would feel in that same situation. It’s like a pep rally at school, everyone shouting and cheering around you for nearly an hour is, like Paul said, my own personal hell. Of course, Paul’s reaction to the musical numbers isn’t my only reason to believe he’s on the spectrum. Things such as his bluntness, his lack of eye contact, his antisocialness, him copying others mannerisms, and even his nervous stimming (rubbing his fingers together when he’s next to Ted at the beginning). In conclusion, as an autistic person, I believe that Paul Matthew’s is autistic as well. Okay now I gotta get to class byeee
As someone with an autism diagnosis myself, I've always suspected Paul might be on the spectrum somewhere, but I never did enough research on the topic to explain why without saying "he just like me fr fr"
The very best part of the entire show is “Let’s go!” “Should we take this chair?” I will never again be able to see a cast member of a show moving a set piece or prop without thinking of that Also, I really wonder if anyone on Team Starkid saw The Noteworthy Life of Howard Barnes. It has quite a few beats in common with TGWDLM (guy who doesn’t like musicals finds himself in one, refuses to sing an “I want” song, meta commentary and jokes about theatre) and was first workshopped in 2013
my drama teacher played maggie in the original cast of the noteworthy life of howard barnes :) when she told us about it, I pointed out the similarities to tgwdlm
one of the things i really like is how the style of the songs tell you about the characters and what theyre trying to get. tied up my heart sounds like contemporary church music and we know shes religous, suggesting they go to a church at the beginning before they go to hidgens
tgwdlm has always been the starkid show thats given me the most food for thought, and ive noticed these points about paul before myself! hes a textbook everyman character, even comically bland in his first scene, so those moments when he actually says something significant about himself really stick out
Phenomenal video, I hope the algorithm keeps promoting this. It even finally pushed me to start scripting for my own analysis about TGWDLM, so thank you so much. Funny that you mentioned the aliens being similar to zombies, as I always took it as a thinly veiled (even though layered) zombie apocalypse story.
Thank you for bringing this musical to my attention. I used to be obsessed with Starkid (in fact, at one point in my life, I knew pretty much all of Holy Musical B@man by heart) but fell out of their work years ago. I'll definitely be giving this a watch.
Hey, I just wanna say I'm absolutely stunned at how much love this video has been getting all of a sudden! It's absolutely amazing the growth I'm seeing rn! For any of you who enjoyed the video, if you wanna help me out I would recommend watching another. The algorithm likes it when someone watches more than one of your videos back to back! I'd recommend the newest video I made about Parappa The Rapper, or my previous video about the show Central Park. I'm very proud of both of those videos as well and would love to see them perform better.
This WAS there magnum opus ... Until Nerdy Prudes Must Die came out, which is now one of my favorite musicals in general. This one is still definitely up there, it's amazing, but I strongly recommend their new one.
Good video as always, love this musical, and you've got pretty interesting takes that make me reconsider the more emotional beats of the story, which I otherwise would have considered some of the lower points of the show compared to the meta commentary and parody on the surface
The amount of growth the characters get in all the other plays / musicals is INCREDIBLE. Legitimately you get So much interesting character growth for Hatchetfield as a town and all the characters. Did you know the homeless guy is actually a bigger character than you might think? There’s an entire little sub story about who he is and who he used to be. It makes rewatching these incredible. The mythos is fantastic as well. Also. JIVEMIND
I remember watching this when it first came out. Emma sings in the opening number; we know from the start of the show that she will become infected. It’s just a matter of how. I fully was not expecting Paul to be infected, but it was such a good move on Nick and Matt's parts.
I do think that the best part about this show is that it makes fun of the genre that it is pulling off so well... so well. Lines like Paul explaining why he doesn't like musicals because they're his "own personal hell" and Emma's "If I wanted to be in a musical, I'd be in a fucking musical," are hilarious every ingle time I watch them, bc I am a theatre and writing nerd.
I still don’t entirely get the ending, it’s a bit of a mindfuck because Emma starts pleading with the audience. A space that was, earlier in the show, considered ugly bushes. And the scariest part is that its still an act to a degree, she is still an actor on the stage, so we aren’t supposed to interact with her.
I wouldn't read too deeply into the parts where they interact directly with the audience. I always just saw that as a fun 4th wall break that doesn't really impact the story at large.
@@goobrious7505 I know, but considering the dramatic nature of the scene (from Emma’s POV) it got me in that mindset and I couldn’t help but think of the implications. lol
I interpret it as the aliens putting on a show for other aliens. We are aliens too. Emma is either acting, or the hivemind is able to temporarily give people back their will
@@goobrious7505 no no no you need to think about the implications! Emma seeing the audience is her first stage of infection! She's becoming a part of the performance, she's realizing she's just an actor on a stage. And that's the most horrifying part.
Not sure if it helps, but Lauren is wearing her Emma costume sans apron at the first number, so I'm inclined to believe the whole performance is a reenactment and she has been affected since the start
I thought paul was selfish because of how he blows off bill and melissa, but this makes me see him as more balanced. Hes not a pathological people-pleaser, hes just super uncomfortable being in a group. Hes honest with melissa that he just doesnt want to join the team. It makes her uncomfortable, but its more respectful than making an excuse. He cant bring himself to go see mama mia, and he knows he cant solve bill's family problems, so he doesnt put himself in those expectations, but he still wants bill to be okay, at least for a little bit. Maybe Paul DOES give money to homeless people and ACTUALLY didnt have anything to give those days. Idk, he still seems like hes grandstanding with the greenpeace woman and his line to ted about starbucks, but maybe those are things he DOES believe, even if he's unable to follow through on his beliefs.
Y'know, I've seen this musical so many times, and this video found a way to make me rethink some things! A small one is the line in Not Your Seed, "But when you needed to fight you gave her that, too." I did NOT process that was about custody and the "her" was her mom, not the alien talking about Alice and weirdly switching pronouns as part of the confusion... but knowing the whole song was 1st person makes me wonder... The introspective section where she ponders, "Why does it hurt to love you? Why am I in pain? Why does it hurt to know you? You let me down again. If I turned my insides out, would you even know that I was there?" hits different. I've always deliberated how genuine vs manipulative that bit was, but now, the jarring shift after the slow section back to "I'm not your seed!" makes me think maybe Alien Alice was trying to convince herself. To distance herself from those complex feelings towards the father she feels has hurt her over and over.
Right now i wonder why everyone hated paul in the song that introduces the show. The way it plays out actually does work as kind of an epilogue but only once you have seen the show before. Like, once they take over the world, they don't really have anything better to do than continue making musicals. So this show is about their origin. But why then, in just that opening number, do they just fucking hate paul, like so much. He is literally already one of them.
Their musical is about the past version of Paul and they hate that Paul. After finishing the musical and then rewatching, it suddenly made sense why these people weirdly hate the fact that Paul didn't like musicals, and turns out the answer was that they're aliens who took over the world through musicals and Paul was the one to struggle most against them lol
i mean granted thats coughing baby (woman in a tower with ice) vs hydrogen bomb (man dies live on stage ft the worlds most menacing usage of the bees knees)
So idk if this is relevant, but it is something I like to think about. We know from future shows that Pokey was behind the apotheosis, and in nerdy prudes must die, he is represented in a theatre mask and stereotypical “director” type outfit. I actually watched Black Friday and Nerdy prides must die before I ever watched tgwdlm and so I went in with a certain amount of spoilers and knowledge on what was happening and because of that, I noticed that at the beginning of the show, the aliens didn’t seem to actively want to infect Paul as much as they lead him to believe. The opener talks about all of the classic characteristics of a hero, which Paul doesn’t seem to have many of when we first meet him. Mr Davidson calls him into his office seemingly to put him through apotheosis, yet instead just sings at Paul about how he should find something to want for. Despite being part of the hive mind, he manages to get off track and Paul escapes, which you’d think the hive mind would be able to stop especially since it is so early on and Paul has no idea how to combat it or even that he has to. I mean the others told him that Mr. Davidson had started calling others into his office after Paul and every one of them came out singing, so Paul is apparently the only one who managed to escape? And again and again they seem to escape from these situations that seem like they shouldn’t as the people around Paul and Emma are picked off. So my theory is that Pokey knew that Hatchetfield was an easy target and he would have very little resistance, but that wasnt the epic story he wanted. He wanted something to fight against or else it would have just been boring, so he purposefully let Paul go multiple times and egged him into admitting his wants and becoming the “hero” of the story. I’ve also considered that it could also be a similar idea, but that the hive mind easier infects people who have wants to exploit as it gives them what they want in return for their bodies. However Paul has resigned himself to the fact that he will live and die in hatchetfield working a 9-5 office job and occasionally flirting with the barista in his coffee shop, and never having any further aspirations. So to combat that, the aliens have to get Paul to want something more than what he already has in order to overtake him.
I think What Do You Want, Paul is the hardest I’ve ever laughed at a song, not counting the two lines of A Song is a Dick in Sheep’s Clothing in Twisted
I am far from the first person to say this, but I think it's worth mentioning that since every song is canonically happening, the logically so is the opening number. This means that the entire show is just the aliens re-enacting their conquering of humanity to us, and they're doing so by using their meat puppet humans. This can be proven by the fact that Emma is actually singing here, and how they all sing "Should We Kill Him". Also, if you consider the likelihood that the aliens go on to infect the people of Clivesdale, then that makes the audience said people, which might make Emma's screaming at the end less of a fourth wall break, and more likely her screaming towards people who are already getting assimilated into the hive mind as we speak. Edit: Ok, so I’ve now gotten REALLY into the lore of Hatchetfield as a whole, and I have a new interpretation of the ending scene because of it. For the uninitiated, everything bad and paranormal that happens in Hatchetfield is the result of The Lords in Black, five eldritch god brothers that exist in an alternate dimension. The aliens in TGWDLM are actually a pathogen sent by the lord known as Pokotho, or Pokey, who wishes to replace every voice that isn’t his own with his own. Now, interestingly, Bliklotep, or Blinky, another Lord in Black, is known as “The Watcher With a Thousand Eyes.” This is what Jack Bauer says when he sees the audience in The Trail to Oregon, another Starkid show. So if we go with the information that Pokey was behind everything, and the idea that the audience is Blinky personified, then this show could actually just be Pokey putting on a performance for his brother.
such a fantastic analysis, i wish this show was talked about more in this sorta way. its a show that means such a great deal to me and you did an amazing job talking about what makes it so special
A point that's misunderstood in this video essay (good as it is) is what the hive-mind actually is. As it's been expanded in the other connected shows/webisodes, the backstory of the town and the Lords in Black has been given more exposure, as this had not been explained at all before this show was performed (Though this is not the first show in the Hatchefield-universe that was created, but simply the first to make it to stage, so the backstory had already been created, but this show didn't really tell a lot about it, but learning about it can further the understanding of what's happening in this show). The fact is that all of the stories in the Hatchetfield universe are about at least one of the Lords in Black or their sister Webby. Spoilers to follow In Black Friday, Webby and Wiggly are both mentioned, and Wiggly is seen manifested in doll form. The president then travels to the Black and White where the Lords live. The stories about them have then been expanded even further upon in the Nightmare Time Webisodes, where in alternate universes, each of the Lords have been introduced and further explained to a point. I'm not sure if it's been confirmed, but it's believed that in TGWDLM the "antagonist" is the Lord Pokey. As stated in the wiki "Pokotho, also known as Pokey or by his title The Singular Voice, is the most uncompromising of the Lords in Black. He has the ability to possess people and make them a part of his hive.". Meaning, the hive-mind is his creation, or even maybe simply a manifestation of himself (in the form of the Goo which infects the townsfolk, seen both in the coffee-shop, and taken out of the brain of Sam. It might also be that the Goo is simply an excretion from his manifestation as the Meteor, it's not completely clear, but it's certain that he is behind it at least, whichever form he used to do it)
@@goobrious7505 Understandable, considering you didn't look further into the backstory, and since this wasn't really the point of the video it makes sense that you didn't really dive too deep into it. However I would highly recommend doing so, especially if you find TGWDLM and Black Friday interesting stories, the Nightmare Time webisodes have very interesting stories as well. Just keep in mind that most of the stories take place in their own timeline/parallel universe.
I came to the conclusion, that the people who get infected do eventually get entirely erased. The memories and feelings definitely stay for a while, but the first batch of implications, like how Sam and McNamara became inversions of themselves, and the way Paul's boss says "I forgot" on the phone (which I took literally, like he just forgot) seems to show that it's not the same people who remain. Another implication is the fact that later in the franchise we learn that the alien is a Lord In Black, and in Yellow Jacket, he shows up in a different form, this time, once again erasing people's identities and puppeteering them for his own goals. I could perfectly imagine that their goal when they made TGWDLM was something more similar to what you proposed in the video, but currently I think it makes more sense if Paul actually doesn't get to be happy in the first musical, and simply dies, achieving the Apotheosis only because the infected become a memory inside Poky, the Lord In Black.
This is actually one of my first and only experiences watching a musical. I love musicals but idk I’ve never gone out of my way to see many, but this one is amazing
I think at the end when talking about Paul, you quote let it out, but to me in that song it feels like half the song isn’t Paul. As you said before an alien infects someone they take over the body, the og host can’t do anything, and in the song you can hear Paul constantly changing pitches and tones as well as smiling when they change so that makes me think that the hive mind is trying to convince him to give in through himself. Like when he says “or maybe I never did” you can hear the pitch change from the previous line, as well as Paul suddenly smiling, making me think the aliens are trying to gaslight the dude so he stops resisting
Have you heard of the theory that all the starkid shows are connected? Its pretty silly, but the idea is that 'The Guy who didn't like Musicals' starts the timeline, everyone gets infected, and what follows is 'Black Friday' where everyone is singing. Then world is reset at the end, and humans are brought to caveman times with 'Firebringer', all thinking that breaking into song is normal. From there, you can keep theorizing, but its a super fun theory!!!
Tgwdlm, probably because of its insane popularity back then, was the first starkid musical recommend to me and how I discovered them. Looking back I'm almost sad that I started on such an absolute high note, but then all their stuff is lovable and quotable as hell, even if tgwdlm has a special place in my heart 😂❤ I still listen to the album on Spotify when the fancy strikes me, and wonder at how Inevitable weaves all the melodies together like that!!
Wow I never actually thought that much about Paul’s character but everything you said makes so much sense, I remember being confused as to why he was even willing to go with Bill to help Alice but in this context… holy shit.
so glad this video got recommended to me along with all the other starkid stuff i'm obsessing over ever since their newest show got released 🥰 excellent essay, fingers crossed for an analysis of nerdy prudes must die in the future...!!!
literally love this analysis - I had interpreted the emotions that come out through the songs more as the hive mind using the people in the most manuplative ways to persuade people to join their side but the idea of unresolved emotions coming to the surface works really well and I love it!!
Overall it's a good essay, I have to say. I might have one major issue with TGWDLM but I can't deny the pluses that it have, and the ones that you pointed out. And hey - I love how you made me think about Paul the way, I never thought of feeling.
@@roozz33 Meteor scene: It was established, that he is near the meteor, so why didn't he blown it right away? This scene could've been done better, is what I am trying to say: Imagine if he had to go from one end of hall to another and closer he gets, the better his "PROXIMITY TO THE METEOR" takes control over Paul? It was established, that stage, is not a limitaion for the cast, as we saw in a couple of scenes. I still love the rest of the show, and I would not deny, that this is the show, where I literally remembered all of the songs first, as opposed to Twisted, where I knew only the tittles and maybe a couple of melodies, after the first watchthrough. And freak, if I were subjective kind of guy, I would've said something like "I know Twisted is better written story, and emotionally it hits me harder, but hey - I am more in love with tgwldm, because it gave me more emotions and it was an original work by them". But I am sadly the kind of guy, who loves objectively best works as their number one pick.
@@AlinaAniretakethe show establishes why he doesn’t just immediately blow it up: if he pulls the pin, he dies. he hesitates bc he doesn’t want to die; he wants to be with emma. and the longer he hesitates, the harder it is to resist the hivemind. if he was far from the meteor, like you suggested, then why wouldn’t he just throw the grenade at it? grenades are meant to be a ranged weapon, he’d have no reason to get close. you could say it’s a plot hole that he got close in the first place, but when he entered he thought he was alone and didn’t know the spores would be affecting him; he didn’t have a reason to think he had to throw it immediately.
@@chromaticroses I Can't say, that it's a plothole, btw, since the script itself doesn't establish, that he is near the meteor - I made a mistake back in the day. I'd call that poor directing, since they had the whole auditorium (I don't know the right term) to work with (hell, they even started this scene with him entering from there). Ok, but when he started to be infected by the hive - why didn't he immediately threw the granade then? Like at that point it should be obvious for him that "ok, I'll never be with Emma, I am close to dying...Guess I'll die (throws granade)" - instead he finishes the song, letting himself be spored even more, before finally doing what he was going to do anyway. And I love the last argument you said) "He didn't have a reason to think he had to throw it immediately" - yeah, it's not like the whole town is fucked and could've hunted him. It's not like he has a girlfriend that got seriously injured, which is why she is a great Target for Hivemind. Like even if those thing weren't a thing - why wouldn't he immediately throw a granade at meteor in theory? What would he wait for in theory? But the fun thing is - since those times that scene is no longer my biggest problem with "the Guy who didn't like Musicals", because I found two more (and they both have a lot in common (Both feature my favorite songs from this musical, and both feature mediocre songs somewhere near those scenes (both sang by Jeff Blim as a lead (what do you want Paul is not one of them)), Both have characters dying in a natural for their characters way, and both scenes best case scenario should've had a different approach, worst case scenario shouldn't have happened at all. And both scenes feature action (or missing action) from Professor Hidgens))
@@AlinaAniretake again, he didn’t throw the grenade because *he didn’t want to die*. most people aren’t ready to blow themselves up at the drop of a hat. sometimes, when people are in stressful situations, they don’t act completely rationally. if every character was completely rational we’d have really boring fucking stories. not throwing the grenade immediately was a mistake, yes, but one that’s completely reasonable for a character to make. wanting to get a better look at the thing to decide what to do is completely rational. *should* paul have considered that it wasn’t safe in the theater? maybe, but he didn’t realize it until it was too late. also i have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about with the rest of your message and don’t really care
More implications for you: the last line Paul says before the meteor is “you come on a bit strong with that saving the world shtick. Its not like I’m going to do that” (or something along those lines) basically foreshadowing him as the ‘hero’. However, stopping the aliens was never referred to as saving the world, rather, the only thing referred to as saving the world was the infection itself. The line was never foreshadowing Paul overcoming the aliens, but the opposite, spreading the infection to the mainland and saving the world. This also ties into the first few lines of the bridge of The Guy Who Didn’t Like Musicals, “it’s the end of the world Paul, if you don’t sing…”. It goes on to explain some basic music theory in the next line, but if you separate the lyrics it once again implies that Paul can only save the world if he sings.
This was brilliant! I’ve seen TGWDLM a least four times since it’s release and I knew some moments flew over my head but your analysis brought on a whole new understanding! Guess now I’ll have to rewatch the musical and see what new discoveries I unearth - amazing video thank you for sharing!
Thing about using the phrase apotheosis as an ascension to godhood is, when TGWDLM first came out, I don’t think fans knew about the entities that were the lords in black. Now with the lore that nightmare time gives us, we know the real villain of TGWDLM is pokey, one of the LiB who has been described in nightmare time 2 to hate any voice that isn’t his own. Since the LiB are basically eldritch gods in a sense, the idea of pokey connecting all of hatchetfield to his own mind and voice through song does kind of feel like he’s ascending ordinary people to godhood on his own level.
TGWDLM is a really special one to me, with my only gripe is that I guess I’m having trouble getting the *point* of it, like what is the moral or voice of the musical. There is a lot of fabulous characterization, comedy, drama, and ingenuity, but when I try to reflect on meaning I kinda come up empty.
My interpretation is that it's about the rise of fascism in the States. There's overt references to this in the following songs: "Show Me Your Hands" (a song that's specifically about police brutality, how often civilians are expected to deescalate encounters with officers, and even references how officers can give weird or even contradictory commands to the people they apprehend) "America is Great Again" (the title being a direct reference to Trump's 2016 campaign slogan, and the song containing lyrics like "Two party system left and right, there's only room for right and wrong" (can be read as the common fascist tactic of reducing nuance to a black and white, good and evil situation, but could also be interpreted as meaning there's only room for conservatism and wrong) "The loudest become the strong" (which isn't far from an actual fascist talking point specifically in how fascism aims to overrule marginalized (or "quiet") voices, and the appeal to strength being a signifier of righteousness), mentioning "the final solution", "There's a war to be fought in this country against those who are far too bold", "Americans should fit a mold", "You're staring down the gun, 'cause you're easily disposed". The hivemind can easily be interpreted as an analogy for fascism, specifically in that rather than everyone being equal, or being promised equality from the hivemind, which is how hiveminds are usually depicted in America sci-fi as they started out as an analogy for communism, the hivemind is specifically controlled by one entity who dictates how everyone else in the hivemind should act, a dictator if you will. While Professor Hidgens does come to the conclusion that humanity becoming a hivemind is for the greater good, as it would solve humanity's problems, this could be taken as a reference to how some people can end up advocating for fascism without realizing it, usually because they think little of fellow humans; how many times have you seen someone argue, even as a joke, that there should be a test people pass before they're allowed to have children? Finally is the way the hivemind expands: First, when it's weak and few, it does so through song and dance; this is probably the weakest comparison, but it could be seen as an analogy for fascists using media to convert people? There's also the scene of Paul's infected boss, trying to get Paul to not only sing along, but also divulge information about himself; this is more of a cult strategy, pretending to be friendly and build a rapport, while also learning the target's potential weaknesses. I haven't heard of fascists using it as a recruitment tactic, but it wouldn't surprise if they did. Second is what happens once the hivemind's numbers are large enough; Professor Hidgens even highlights this in the musical, stating that hivemind becomes bolder and more aggressive the larger it grows. This could signify the turning point where, when fascists think their numbers are strong, and that enough people agree with them, they too become bolder and more aggressive. Third there's what happens after it absorbs the members of P.E.I.P; the hivemind at this point seemingly gains the ability to convert people instantly as we see with Ted. This could be seen as a reference to how often fascism and military goes hand in hand; fascist dictatorships usually arise either through a take-over by a charismatic leader (again, in reference to how the hivemind originally came across) or through a militaristic take-over. Finally there's the scene where the hivemind attempts to convert Paul, and in the end succeeds. The hivemind here is specifically lying to Paul; it promises Paul freedom, that if he submits to it, he can have what he wants. This is a really common tactic used by fascists for the sake of recruitment; telling people that they are oppressed and taken for granted in the current system (which they probably are, because capitalism, as the sequel "Black Friday" points out), and that becoming part of their organization will make them happy and give them what they really want. This is a lie of course. There's also two specific sets of lyrics in "Let It Out" that I want to point out, but I saved it for this section, as I felt the context in this segment was necessary: "Is my integrity worth anything at all? But happiness can't come before its fall" It's interesting to note that when Paul is singing, part of it is him, while the other is the hivemind trying to convince him, and it usually shifts between each line. The first line can be seen as Paul, trying to cling on to his integrity; he's been fighting the hivemind all this time, trying to do the right thing, and now he finds himself tempted to succumb and join it. The hivemind then answers through Paul that "happiness can't come before its fall"; "its" in this line, given how it's sat up, must therefore refer to integrity. The hivemind is directly telling Paul to give up on his integrity in order to become happy. "It's awful freeing now to share the hate I felt. But what will I let in if I let it out?" This time, the first line is sang by the hivemind. And it is hear that we see what the hivemind actually wants, and combined with Paul's following line, we learn what the "it" in the song is that the hivemind wants to let out; hate. Fascism is an ideology very much based in hate; hate is how it motivates its followers, usually by directing them at a scapegoat. While the hatred is specifically referring to Paul's dislike of musicals, it is worth noting that fascism works by taking justified anger or hatred for small, or again, justified things, and nurturing it into a weapon it can use to fight for it, and we can see that in Paul's response "what will I let in if I let it out?". He is asking himself what he will let in, what he will allow to take room inside of him (literal in reference to the hivemind, figuratively as the analogy for fascism) if he gives in to his hatred. With this interpretation, it also paints a very different picture of the last thing Paul did before he joins the hivemind. He sings the line "God help me if I let it out" and then shouts that he doesn't like musicals. While at cursory glance, this seems like an act of defiance, especially coupled with him throwing the grenade and blowing up the meteor, and Paul probably perceived it that way as well, we know that by letting out his hatred, he lets the hivemind in. This is not a super strong point, but even the ending can be looked at through this lens; at first we assume that everything is over, the hivemind was stopped, but then we learn that infection has reached the mainland. This could be seen as in reference to how after WW2, some countries killed surviving nazis on sight and others tracked them down and prosectued them, the US gave several nazi scientists asylum in the states. My final point, which I will admit is a stretch, but I thought it was a fun little bonus, is how this interpretation ties into how each main character succumbs to the hivemind: Charlotte is converted by her infected husband after he promises to do better by her Bill chooses to die after learning his daughter was converted; with her telling him that it was his fault, and pointing out his blind spot in trying to protect her from the evils of the world. It can also be theorized that Alice was converted by her girlfriend Deb, judging from her call with Bill. I also think it's worth pointing out that Bill is the only main character whom the hivemind does not try to convert; the infected Charlotte and Sam ignore him in favor of Ted, and the infected trio of Alice, Deb, and Bumblebee don't try to convert him after shooting him, instead choosing to focus on Paul. The reason why I point this out, is that Bill is also the only black main character, and fascism is severely linked to racism. Professor Hidgens is, as mentioned above, convinced that joining the hivemind is the right thing to do, and actively chooses to join the hivemind. Ted, the cowardly asshole, is quickly converted by P.E.I.P.; he left his friends to die out of self preservation, and is then immediately converted by a military unit wielding guns. Paul's conversion is described in detail further up, but he basically succumbs to his own emotions, giving the hivemind an in to convert him. So yeah, this ended up being a lot longer than I first expected, but basically TLDR: I think the musical is an analogy for the rise of fascism in the USA, and the moral can basically be seen as a cautionary tale, kinda like Little Shop of Horrors
@@Mathee Very well said and fair! Considering the relationship with capitalism in the follow-up, I can very much understand that and have been pondering on it a little bit. Especially with Paul’s early complacency and disinterest, and clear homage to body snatchers. I guess to me personally the message gets weaker when looking at the general helplessness and blamelessness of the protagonists, but I also understand that’s part of the power and strength of the horror genre. I wish there were more obvious roots and responsibility of “oh it was always here, at least a little bit”, but I also get that’s what “letting it out” kinda is. But that also gives an implication that it’s part of all of us and inevitable which can be a little icky. Totes can see and agree with a lot of those observations, and with America is Great Again and the cops, it’s clear they have a direction for the important fascism as horror message. Just to me the dedication to genre ever so slightly muddles it.
@@BestgirlJordanfish I agree that the message was a little muddled; this was Starkid's first attempt to write a musical with a political message, but they improved a hell of a lot with Black Friday, and I think that's what's most important
I like the idea that Paul has tried in the past to like musicals, but he gets way too uncomfortable. Like he doesn’t dislike musicals for the reason other people refuse to like them, that they’re cringey and has a bad stigma, but instead because he just finds it uncomfortable.
that's such a great take on the Hive's strange and complicated relationship with its hosts!! your analysis of Charlotte and Paul pre/after infection makes so much sense
This just made me love Paul even more. I didn't know that was possible. It also made me love Paulkins even more eeeee!!!! Also I am going to sob about Paul now
Just saw this musical a couple of weeks ago. It’s brilliant I didn’t laugh as much as Twisted, but it is certainly the most creative musical I’ll ever seen
I do think this is their best show so far and an important enough one that they should sell royalities for at some point, it's too good to sit wasting away when this kind of thing is meant to be seen live
It's worth noting in regards to your final point with Paul, that when Hidgens asks the group to sing Moana to prove they aren't infected, Paul is the one who gets most of the song on point!
I never thought of that!
@@goobrious7505 The implications, you didn't think about them!
I think it’s because in the original plot Paul was supposed to work as a movie reviewer or something like that, but Nick lang gave up on the idea
I like to think that he knows the words because he watched the movie with Alice when babysitting her as a kid
@@elishaoloughlin3287 I think I heard that somewhere and it totally clicks in my brain. The idea that he feels powerless and trapped as an audience member in a dark theatre, but can enjoy a kids’ movie from a more comfortable position of authority? That tracks.
Here's some implications for you to think about: the very beginning of the musical has the characters singing about how Paul doesn't like musicals and how they hate him for it.
The entire musical is the Aliens putting on a show of how they triumphed over Paul.
Oh my fucking god, I think you might be right. I've never thought about that before😭
And Emma is singing the song with them, which means that she got infected too and never made it out.
@@savvy3tv632 It's very meta in a way even the name of the musical "The guy who *didn't* like musicals" didn't because he does like them now, and we actually see Emma get dragged off stage during the credits/ending with the bowing by the infected characters to be infected off stage.
The beginning of the musical, the ensemble sang "the guy who didn't like musicals", but when Paul didn't come out when they sang "enter nowwww", they sang "the guy just DOESN'T like musicals".
So my theory is that Paul is still semi-conscious the whole time and can resist their control once in a while. And it's the aliens who KEEP Paul conscious, to torture him. They said "[the shotgun] is too quick a death for you, Paul" and they meant it. He's in his personal hell now😭
I'd like to think that the little time Paul could control his body once in a while, he spends them fucking up the aliens' musicals. That's why they call him a POS😂
I'm too obsessed with this musical 😅
@@voicetalethat could be the alien in Emma's body mocking how she struggled when they did get to her. Like, she sang in the title song... as Emma... singing the line "a cute lil barista", essentially singing about herself in third person. So an alien playing Emma would make sense in this context.
seeing how absolutely terrified and distraught Emma is after discovering that paul was infected makes me cry every time
Plus how she begs and pleads to the audience while they are clapping and cheering is just haunting to this day for me
@@figueroa6037 Plus how the fact that she can see the audience is an _implication_ that she's beginning to be infected too!
WHY ARE YOU CLAPPING?!?
listening to Inevitable on the soundtrack right after watching the show feels so weird due to the lack of screams of horror
@@quinintheclouds IT'S A FUCKING LOOP!?
a detail i really liked, is at the end when emma thinks she's made it and they're giving her a new life, and tell her she'll have a huge plot of land where she can have her pot farm. maybe it wasn't a secret, but the only person we actually see her tell that too is paul during their little heart to heart when she opens up about her sister. it was probably the hive mind using that information from him
ohhh shit
I think it probably isn't that, as the show goes on the infected are less and less able to hold non-musical conversation. with Alice, Deb, and smoke club girl they had to harmonize to talk "normally" and when we see the nurse in the last scene (who is revealed to have been infected) and then later paul, neither of them say a word until the song starts and then they sing. its a detail that I personally love in any media, where a character in disguise can't talk because their voice will reveal them
@@crow3467I like to think that Paul is the sort of center now that the meteor is gone. Hes taught the aliens restraint in some way
I freaken loved the part where emma turns to the audience and breaks the forth wall by asking them to do something. Both really funny and kind of terrifying
My favorite headcanon is that that is a sign that Emma is in the beginning stages of infection. She can see the audience, she is joining the cast.
An interesting idea I saw in a comment on the musical about "Inevitable": Emma finally losing all hope that paul might still be himself at the "show stopping number" section because it is the first song in the medley she KNOWS he wasn't present for
The one thing that makes me hesitant to believe Alien Alice is telling the truth is that they blatantly lie about Deb being a druggie/pusher, Deb is actually a cool person who didn't like the "smoke club" pushing.
I would interpret that more so as Alice leaving out parts of the truth to further hurt Bill. At the party in the beginning, where we see Deb & Alice, Deb is against the "smoke club" pushing her to smoke, but it's never confirmed that she doesn't also smoke herself. It's the peer pressure that she's openly against.
We're never told directly how they got to that party, but it is implied that Deb brought Alice there when Bill says that Alice is spending all of her time with Deb.
@@goobrious7505I do think the fact she calls Deb a “hardcore smoker” despite quitting the smoking club definitely makes me think the aliens are using the knowledge as weapons.
Not to mention the alien commander talking about making it great again when the real commander knows its flawed and holds the human freedom above it.
I think Deb is still a hard core stoner. She just wasn’t cool with the Smoke Club kids peer pressuring her girlfriend.
@@four_girls_in_search_of_awesom
Yeah that's kinda what I'm saying. Deb can be against the Smoke Club trying to pressure her girlfriend into smoking but that doesn't mean she isn't also a stoner. There's a difference between smoking and trying to force others into doing it too and in my experience many real life stoners understand that the polite thing to do is to let other people decide whether or not they wanna smoke for themselves.
@@goobrious7505 Thing is, we're listening to the aliens saying this. Like everything seems opposite from what was established...
Ted - Cheats on his wife so much, he does it in other universes.
Alien Ted - Loves his wife.
Charlotte - While angry, does care for Ted.
Alien Charlotte - Just attacks him, not even trying.
Alice - Really doesn't seem to want to be with her father, just her girlfriend.
Alien Alice - I wanted to be with you daddy.
McNamara - Willing to break the Government's order for the Human Spirit.
Alien McNamara - Follow the rulers.
Even Paul's "maybe this is the real me" is closer to the aliens trying to control his mind than a true realization.
Like the real Paul I feel is build up prior to that. From not wanting to go with a co-worker to willing to help a friend. From having no interest in helping a charity to willing to sacrifice himself to save the world. You even see the difference in the final song:
"What if I told you I made it, and this is the life that I chose?"
We seen him choose to hate musicals before blowing up the theater.
I think that the only time someone was singing by choice in TGWDLM was when Hidgens sang in Show Stopping Number. He made the active choice to do so, knowing full well the infected would be drawn to them and he would join them. The fact that he chose to give up his free will and life is horrifying, but like so many other things in the musical you don't think about the implications because of the silliness of the song. And the fact that Emma thought she had made it out with Paul in the end, only to find out Paul had been infected? It's truly terrifying, cause we as an audience think they made it out together until Paul starts singing.
wonderful musical, truly one of my favorites :D
I think you're right, even Emma's boss and coworker whose whole thing was that they had theatre ties and liked to insert singing into their job never sang until after they were infected.
I saw a video that stumbled upon a point that you made about the "I want" song. Every good musical has one, but this show purposely circumvented it. They basically called What Do You Want Paul an "Anti I Want" song. What I noticed at the end, when Paul is talking to General MacNamera about Emma, finally uses the phrase "I want," shortly after falling victim to the hive mind. Maybe it's nothing, but I feel like stating his desire made him vulnerable.
i definitely agree! Before he formulated his want, the hivemind had very little to use. Someone who doesn't seem to want anything isn't a very good musical character after all.
I agree 100% - but he does technically say (or more likely Scream) an “I Want” right at the start of the musical; during What Do You Want Paul, when his boss is dancing around/past him (I think the second time when things are getting more aggravated), Paul very briefly shouts “I wanna to Go Home!” - it’s one of those Throwaway Lines that I originally thought his Boss actually said (since his back was towards the camera) but yeah - idk if that counts as a proper “I Want” though, but it’s an interesting thing to note
@@seshirumakara2594 It’s a non-answer though. He’s shutting his boss down - I want to not engage with the question of what I want.
The infected use knowledge and desire as weapons.
I totally agree! He thinks in terms of what he doesn’t want, and easily enforces his boundaries and tells people no. Other than that he’s quite passive in life, I love his radical acceptance litany of OKs 😂
The second he leaned more toward wanting Emma, than NOT wanting to be in a musical, our boy was doomed 😭
So I think one of the songs that really demonstrates the whole "death-like process" thing you were talking about (where the new versions of the people still retain that human memory) is one that kind of gets overlooked plot-wise. Mr. Davidson sings an incredibly personal song with zero embarrassment or affectation other than his plastic smile--- Until it's important for him to feel like a human/like himself would about not getting what he wants (emphasized by "Paul now you know what it is to want!" directly afterward when he goes back into alien mode). He goes from completely unphased and calling up his wife, to suddenly being very human and incapable of telling her honestly what he wants... he's allowed to tap into that human memory and emotion solely to make a point, and we seem him really falter and regret not being able to say it to Carol. But the song itself is so outrageous that again- you don't think about the implications.
also, I love this idea of paul feeling small in the face of something like a musical. I think if you take into account the character from the entirety of nightmare time and tgwdlm, then going with his backstory it makes sense that he would feel... unremarkable and slightly insignificant. Someone like Emma who felt both larger than life in her willingness to just... go and do things... but also was dealing with everyday problems like the rest of us. Someone like Emma really gave him a sense of having a story; there was someone who made him feel important because of who he was, and not solely because he was the perfect leading man (although let's face it... Paul rocks lol)
I always think about how the last song begins with the words “Emma, I’m sorry.” Does this imply that part of Paul is still conscious and trying to apologize for failing saving her, or is it the hive mind mocking her by following it with “you lost”
There are parts of almost every song or lines that imply that people can fight the infection (they just can’t win against pokey). We see this with Sam, Alice, Paul, and McNamara. From my memory
@joshred1571 Paul's boss also does this, he goes to call his wife and tell him his desire to be choked while jerking off, but then (I assume) Pokey stops him from expressing himself in anyway that doesn't help the infection spreading
The best example of having to think about the implications though, is the fact that the show isn't called The Guy Who Doesn't Like Musicals, but The Guy Who DIDN'T Like Musicals
I don't know how I've only just reaslied this....
Mr. Davidson showing us his ideal body type at 6:36 gets me every time
Bugette Buggington
that's another hint at the infection! the aliens know that when talking about women, people tend to make that motion with their hands... but they don't understand exactly why people make that motion or what it represents, so they end up doing it for far too long
A Chess Queen
A giant, misshapen vase.
a total drama character
Man I love this musical. I would say, as a counterpoint, I personally believe that there’s nothing left of the people as they were but their memories and a useful helping of their emotions, I.e. Charlotte’s rage. (The cast commentary talks about Charlotte in such a fun way, I admit bias towards their views)
I think MacNamara is actually a good example of this. When he and Paul talk (and he’s hypothetically not infected yet) he’s clearly a bit weird and a free spirit and agrees to help Paul. Who he is post-infection is an absolute pastiche of a soldier. When the hive mind doesn’t explicitly need the memories of the specific host bodies, it reverts to using surface level stereotypes of the ‘characters’ that the people are. Whatever works best for the ‘part’ that’s being played. Nora in the Beanie’s scene (exhausted sort of jerk of a manager) vs Cup of Roasted/Poisoned Coffee (smiling chorus member) and even Sam between his opening scene (dickhead who is cheating on his wife but ultimately just guy playing up being macho), Show Me Your Hands (the most stereotypical stereotype to ever stereotype) and Tied Up My Heart (hints of the guy Charlotte married/wants to have married, whatever works best to convince her to untie him) are great examples of the ‘real’ people and the ‘roles’ the aliens have.
I love horror and I love Starkid. I could talk about it for ages and this video really hyped me up. Amazing job.
Counterpoint: in Join Us and Die, the lyrics directly state “your own body/is your front row seat/to die”
I take this to mean once apotheosis is upon a certain character, they become an audience member in their own body. This can explain how the infected can access memory, and makes the fact that we are in fact audience members kinda terrifying.
The ending made me sob the first time I saw it and goddamn it you made me cry all over again 😭Poor Paul
The fear of becoming what you hate... The necessary embarrassment of expressing your emotions... The implication that Paul isn't fully infected yet...
Getting close to someone is terrifying and embarrassing but you have to do it to be happy even though it can feel like giving up your independence
And it just hits different as an aromantic person who once compared romantic attraction to a hivemind
Like everyone else is obsessed with this thing while I've based my identity around disliking it, but sometimes Im scared I'm missing out.
Important to note as well that TGWDLM is a deconstruction of the average musical, down to the very premise, especially when you lay it out in simple words: a man who dislikes musicals learning the value of musical theatre through the power of song. That’s what I assumed the musical would be when I watched it for the first time, too. Paul is the Hive’s chosen protagonist-everything in the entire musical is set up to have him be the hero, have him save the day-there are multiple occasions wherein Paul is disadvantaged and cornered by the Hive but they let him go. I don’t think that’s coincidence, I think that’s intentional on the Hive’s end, to help along his ‘character development’ and to build him up to be the main character. Plus, Paul’s introduction by the Hive sets him up to seem like a horrible person for disliking musicals, to expect a grumpy guy that you would assume will grow to be less grumpy about musicals by the end of the story. What we get is… not that. Paul is a stand up guy, very kind, outside of his self-worth issues he never really NEEDED character development (we can see this in the multiple iterations of Paul we get across the series, as well). And at the end of the musical, we get the ‘cliche’ ending-Paul learns to love musicals, and most horrifying of all, his song at the end reminds us of this idea of ‘getting the girl’ at the end of a musical, of winning her heart. It’s a wonderful deconstruction of tropes in a way that is utterly horrifying to me.
One of the best thing about this musical that you didn’t mention was the opening number. Everyone sings, even though the meteor hasn’t technically fallen yet. Implying that this has already happened, and the aliens are just telling the story of their origin on earth.
This is legit my favourite musical because of the implications that every song is technically a villain song ahaha
I would say cup of rosted coffee and cup of poisoned coffee are two different songs
I also find it good evidence that Paul actually did watch Musicals, because almost every time one is brought up in the show he knows it. When Professor Hidgens forces everyone to sing the opening to Moana, the only one who actually knows all the words is Paul
I hate the other implication (but have you thought about the implications?) that a part of Paul chose not to destroy the spore before he was fully infected - that the aliens surrounding it seemingly knew him well enough to be confident to the point they knew that once he was slightly infected and had the slightest chance of feeling happy that he wouldn't be able to resist it. Perhaps there was also a part of him that thought Emma would be happier like this as well :(
I need more video essays about Team StarKid productions in my life
(also shows by The Tin Can Brothers like Solve It Squad Returns and Spies Are Forever, ESPECIALLY Spies Are Forever)
Silvana Ltd. has a really good video about Spies Are Forever called "Spies Are Forever Decoded" if you haven't seen it.
It talks allot about the queer coding of Curt Mega and the role that 1950s history plays in enhancing the story based on the fact that he's gay.
I'd check it out if you haven't seen it.
@@goobrious7505 OOO thank you for the recommendation :D
Silvana Ltd. also has a wonderful video about the lyricism of Twisted
@@goobrious7505 omgomgomgomgomg thank you I'm gonna watch it right now
So, speaking of implications, I think it's interesting that you seem to err on the side that the alien hivemind is ultimately allowing the infected a degree of autonomy and happiness, because I did not get that impression. Thinking through "the implications" of a few lines, I saw a much darker outcome.
First, Sam's line in "Tie up my heart" is 'this body's not gonna last, the air is cold and thick' which implied to me that these creatures can't survive in our atmosphere normally and use our bodies, but that they can't use them indefinitely. We'll wear out and die, likely because of the spore creatures using us as nourishment. Why do I think that's the case? Well, where did that big space rock come from? One can really only assume this is part of its life cycle, the Hive envelops a world, feeds on every possible host body until resources are depleted, then the hollowed out works cracks apart and the Hive drifts on to consume another planet. Because, in "Inevitable" Paul gives us another 'implication' line. "Let me plant my seed. The Hive needs to feed, Happiness is guaranteed"
Planting his seed without Emma's consent, framing it in the predatory sense of her infection being the Hive 'feeding' on her, and that Happiness and peace? An illusion, while our bodies are rotted and consumed from the inside by a massive, spored, intergalactic apex predator.
Anyway, that's my theory. Made sense to me.... when I considered the implications 😉
However, who's to say the happiness is an illusion. It is still possible they give them happiness, just not eternal happiness. They would die out eventually without the aliens and we don't know when the aliens would die out either. Happiness tends to be temporary anyways, so the promise still stands in my eyes.
Thank you! I know everyone loves Twisted but it is brilliant in Team StarKid's already established canon. TGWDLM sits by itself. Someone doesn't need to know their previous catalogue or even like their style to get this piece. For me it actually brought me into the fold. It changed how they thought of themselves and what they are capable of.
every song in this musical is a villain song and that's why they all slap
What about cup of roasted coffee
I 100% headcanon Paul as autistic, with one of my reasons why actually being his hatred of musicals. As an autistic person with bad sensory issues related to sound, live musicals can be very overwhelming without being prepared. Paul doesn’t seem annoyed by the singing, but rather confused, frightened, and overwhelmed, things most introverted people with noise sensitivities would feel in that same situation. It’s like a pep rally at school, everyone shouting and cheering around you for nearly an hour is, like Paul said, my own personal hell. Of course, Paul’s reaction to the musical numbers isn’t my only reason to believe he’s on the spectrum. Things such as his bluntness, his lack of eye contact, his antisocialness, him copying others mannerisms, and even his nervous stimming (rubbing his fingers together when he’s next to Ted at the beginning). In conclusion, as an autistic person, I believe that Paul Matthew’s is autistic as well.
Okay now I gotta get to class byeee
As someone with an autism diagnosis myself, I've always suspected Paul might be on the spectrum somewhere, but I never did enough research on the topic to explain why without saying "he just like me fr fr"
Real
The very best part of the entire show is “Let’s go!”
“Should we take this chair?”
I will never again be able to see a cast member of a show moving a set piece or prop without thinking of that
Also, I really wonder if anyone on Team Starkid saw The Noteworthy Life of Howard Barnes. It has quite a few beats in common with TGWDLM (guy who doesn’t like musicals finds himself in one, refuses to sing an “I want” song, meta commentary and jokes about theatre) and was first workshopped in 2013
my drama teacher played maggie in the original cast of the noteworthy life of howard barnes :) when she told us about it, I pointed out the similarities to tgwdlm
@@arinomaly By “original cast” do you mean the one on the cast album? The Village Theatre production?
one of the things i really like is how the style of the songs tell you about the characters and what theyre trying to get. tied up my heart sounds like contemporary church music and we know shes religous, suggesting they go to a church at the beginning before they go to hidgens
tgwdlm has always been the starkid show thats given me the most food for thought, and ive noticed these points about paul before myself! hes a textbook everyman character, even comically bland in his first scene, so those moments when he actually says something significant about himself really stick out
Phenomenal video, I hope the algorithm keeps promoting this.
It even finally pushed me to start scripting for my own analysis about TGWDLM, so thank you so much.
Funny that you mentioned the aliens being similar to zombies, as I always took it as a thinly veiled (even though layered) zombie apocalypse story.
Thank you for bringing this musical to my attention. I used to be obsessed with Starkid (in fact, at one point in my life, I knew pretty much all of Holy Musical B@man by heart) but fell out of their work years ago. I'll definitely be giving this a watch.
HMB! is seriously underrated imho, it's one of my favorites!
These character analyses genuinely broke me- i guess i really didn’t think about the implications
Hey, I just wanna say I'm absolutely stunned at how much love this video has been getting all of a sudden! It's absolutely amazing the growth I'm seeing rn!
For any of you who enjoyed the video, if you wanna help me out I would recommend watching another. The algorithm likes it when someone watches more than one of your videos back to back!
I'd recommend the newest video I made about Parappa The Rapper, or my previous video about the show Central Park. I'm very proud of both of those videos as well and would love to see them perform better.
This WAS there magnum opus ... Until Nerdy Prudes Must Die came out, which is now one of my favorite musicals in general. This one is still definitely up there, it's amazing, but I strongly recommend their new one.
Good video as always, love this musical, and you've got pretty interesting takes that make me reconsider the more emotional beats of the story, which I otherwise would have considered some of the lower points of the show compared to the meta commentary and parody on the surface
The amount of growth the characters get in all the other plays / musicals is INCREDIBLE. Legitimately you get So much interesting character growth for Hatchetfield as a town and all the characters. Did you know the homeless guy is actually a bigger character than you might think? There’s an entire little sub story about who he is and who he used to be. It makes rewatching these incredible. The mythos is fantastic as well.
Also. JIVEMIND
god this makes me like paul so much more. not that I didn't like him but this possible backstory adds so much that i never would've picked up on
Tgwdlm has never been one of my favorites but this really makes me think about it in a new light. Sick!
You could say you didn't think about the implications
I remember watching this when it first came out. Emma sings in the opening number; we know from the start of the show that she will become infected. It’s just a matter of how. I fully was not expecting Paul to be infected, but it was such a good move on Nick and Matt's parts.
Emma’s screams were legitimately horrifying when i first watched TGWDLM
I do think that the best part about this show is that it makes fun of the genre that it is pulling off so well... so well. Lines like Paul explaining why he doesn't like musicals because they're his "own personal hell" and Emma's "If I wanted to be in a musical, I'd be in a fucking musical," are hilarious every ingle time I watch them, bc I am a theatre and writing nerd.
this was amazing, i love the guy who didn't like musicals and all of starkids stuff! but I've never looked this deep into it
I still don’t entirely get the ending, it’s a bit of a mindfuck because Emma starts pleading with the audience. A space that was, earlier in the show, considered ugly bushes. And the scariest part is that its still an act to a degree, she is still an actor on the stage, so we aren’t supposed to interact with her.
I wouldn't read too deeply into the parts where they interact directly with the audience. I always just saw that as a fun 4th wall break that doesn't really impact the story at large.
@@goobrious7505 I know, but considering the dramatic nature of the scene (from Emma’s POV) it got me in that mindset and I couldn’t help but think of the implications. lol
I interpret it as the aliens putting on a show for other aliens. We are aliens too.
Emma is either acting, or the hivemind is able to temporarily give people back their will
@@goobrious7505 no no no you need to think about the implications! Emma seeing the audience is her first stage of infection! She's becoming a part of the performance, she's realizing she's just an actor on a stage. And that's the most horrifying part.
Not sure if it helps, but Lauren is wearing her Emma costume sans apron at the first number, so I'm inclined to believe the whole performance is a reenactment and she has been affected since the start
I thought paul was selfish because of how he blows off bill and melissa, but this makes me see him as more balanced. Hes not a pathological people-pleaser, hes just super uncomfortable being in a group. Hes honest with melissa that he just doesnt want to join the team. It makes her uncomfortable, but its more respectful than making an excuse. He cant bring himself to go see mama mia, and he knows he cant solve bill's family problems, so he doesnt put himself in those expectations, but he still wants bill to be okay, at least for a little bit. Maybe Paul DOES give money to homeless people and ACTUALLY didnt have anything to give those days.
Idk, he still seems like hes grandstanding with the greenpeace woman and his line to ted about starbucks, but maybe those are things he DOES believe, even if he's unable to follow through on his beliefs.
Oh my god Paul is autistic
Y'know, I've seen this musical so many times, and this video found a way to make me rethink some things!
A small one is the line in Not Your Seed, "But when you needed to fight you gave her that, too." I did NOT process that was about custody and the "her" was her mom, not the alien talking about Alice and weirdly switching pronouns as part of the confusion... but knowing the whole song was 1st person makes me wonder... The introspective section where she ponders, "Why does it hurt to love you? Why am I in pain? Why does it hurt to know you? You let me down again. If I turned my insides out, would you even know that I was there?" hits different. I've always deliberated how genuine vs manipulative that bit was, but now, the jarring shift after the slow section back to "I'm not your seed!" makes me think maybe Alien Alice was trying to convince herself. To distance herself from those complex feelings towards the father she feels has hurt her over and over.
Im so glad that someone is finally discussing Prof. Hidgen's point about the world maybe being better after the apotheosis (also based Omori music)
Right now i wonder why everyone hated paul in the song that introduces the show. The way it plays out actually does work as kind of an epilogue but only once you have seen the show before. Like, once they take over the world, they don't really have anything better to do than continue making musicals. So this show is about their origin. But why then, in just that opening number, do they just fucking hate paul, like so much. He is literally already one of them.
Their musical is about the past version of Paul and they hate that Paul. After finishing the musical and then rewatching, it suddenly made sense why these people weirdly hate the fact that Paul didn't like musicals, and turns out the answer was that they're aliens who took over the world through musicals and Paul was the one to struggle most against them lol
Jivemind is the funniest thing I’ve heard this week
“Let it out” is one of the best songs I’ve ever heard.
Better than “let it go”.
i mean granted thats coughing baby (woman in a tower with ice) vs hydrogen bomb (man dies live on stage ft the worlds most menacing usage of the bees knees)
i'm on a boat - lonely island
edit - they were on a boat
So idk if this is relevant, but it is something I like to think about. We know from future shows that Pokey was behind the apotheosis, and in nerdy prudes must die, he is represented in a theatre mask and stereotypical “director” type outfit. I actually watched Black Friday and Nerdy prides must die before I ever watched tgwdlm and so I went in with a certain amount of spoilers and knowledge on what was happening and because of that, I noticed that at the beginning of the show, the aliens didn’t seem to actively want to infect Paul as much as they lead him to believe. The opener talks about all of the classic characteristics of a hero, which Paul doesn’t seem to have many of when we first meet him. Mr Davidson calls him into his office seemingly to put him through apotheosis, yet instead just sings at Paul about how he should find something to want for. Despite being part of the hive mind, he manages to get off track and Paul escapes, which you’d think the hive mind would be able to stop especially since it is so early on and Paul has no idea how to combat it or even that he has to. I mean the others told him that Mr. Davidson had started calling others into his office after Paul and every one of them came out singing, so Paul is apparently the only one who managed to escape? And again and again they seem to escape from these situations that seem like they shouldn’t as the people around Paul and Emma are picked off. So my theory is that Pokey knew that Hatchetfield was an easy target and he would have very little resistance, but that wasnt the epic story he wanted. He wanted something to fight against or else it would have just been boring, so he purposefully let Paul go multiple times and egged him into admitting his wants and becoming the “hero” of the story. I’ve also considered that it could also be a similar idea, but that the hive mind easier infects people who have wants to exploit as it gives them what they want in return for their bodies. However Paul has resigned himself to the fact that he will live and die in hatchetfield working a 9-5 office job and occasionally flirting with the barista in his coffee shop, and never having any further aspirations. So to combat that, the aliens have to get Paul to want something more than what he already has in order to overtake him.
The way you explain this horror comedy makes the story way more horror than comedy. And I love it.
I think What Do You Want, Paul is the hardest I’ve ever laughed at a song, not counting the two lines of A Song is a Dick in Sheep’s Clothing in Twisted
I am far from the first person to say this, but I think it's worth mentioning that since every song is canonically happening, the logically so is the opening number. This means that the entire show is just the aliens re-enacting their conquering of humanity to us, and they're doing so by using their meat puppet humans. This can be proven by the fact that Emma is actually singing here, and how they all sing "Should We Kill Him". Also, if you consider the likelihood that the aliens go on to infect the people of Clivesdale, then that makes the audience said people, which might make Emma's screaming at the end less of a fourth wall break, and more likely her screaming towards people who are already getting assimilated into the hive mind as we speak.
Edit: Ok, so I’ve now gotten REALLY into the lore of Hatchetfield as a whole, and I have a new interpretation of the ending scene because of it. For the uninitiated, everything bad and paranormal that happens in Hatchetfield is the result of The Lords in Black, five eldritch god brothers that exist in an alternate dimension. The aliens in TGWDLM are actually a pathogen sent by the lord known as Pokotho, or Pokey, who wishes to replace every voice that isn’t his own with his own. Now, interestingly, Bliklotep, or Blinky, another Lord in Black, is known as “The Watcher With a Thousand Eyes.” This is what Jack Bauer says when he sees the audience in The Trail to Oregon, another Starkid show. So if we go with the information that Pokey was behind everything, and the idea that the audience is Blinky personified, then this show could actually just be Pokey putting on a performance for his brother.
such a fantastic analysis, i wish this show was talked about more in this sorta way. its a show that means such a great deal to me and you did an amazing job talking about what makes it so special
Like how it’s the guy who DIDNT like musicals, because I mean at the end you could say he likes them
A point that's misunderstood in this video essay (good as it is) is what the hive-mind actually is. As it's been expanded in the other connected shows/webisodes, the backstory of the town and the Lords in Black has been given more exposure, as this had not been explained at all before this show was performed (Though this is not the first show in the Hatchefield-universe that was created, but simply the first to make it to stage, so the backstory had already been created, but this show didn't really tell a lot about it, but learning about it can further the understanding of what's happening in this show). The fact is that all of the stories in the Hatchetfield universe are about at least one of the Lords in Black or their sister Webby.
Spoilers to follow
In Black Friday, Webby and Wiggly are both mentioned, and Wiggly is seen manifested in doll form. The president then travels to the Black and White where the Lords live. The stories about them have then been expanded even further upon in the Nightmare Time Webisodes, where in alternate universes, each of the Lords have been introduced and further explained to a point.
I'm not sure if it's been confirmed, but it's believed that in TGWDLM the "antagonist" is the Lord Pokey. As stated in the wiki "Pokotho, also known as Pokey or by his title The Singular Voice, is the most uncompromising of the Lords in Black. He has the ability to possess people and make them a part of his hive.". Meaning, the hive-mind is his creation, or even maybe simply a manifestation of himself (in the form of the Goo which infects the townsfolk, seen both in the coffee-shop, and taken out of the brain of Sam. It might also be that the Goo is simply an excretion from his manifestation as the Meteor, it's not completely clear, but it's certain that he is behind it at least, whichever form he used to do it)
Me who didn't watch Nightmare Time, guess I didn't know all the lore when I made this lol
@@goobrious7505 Understandable, considering you didn't look further into the backstory, and since this wasn't really the point of the video it makes sense that you didn't really dive too deep into it. However I would highly recommend doing so, especially if you find TGWDLM and Black Friday interesting stories, the Nightmare Time webisodes have very interesting stories as well. Just keep in mind that most of the stories take place in their own timeline/parallel universe.
I came to the conclusion, that the people who get infected do eventually get entirely erased.
The memories and feelings definitely stay for a while, but the first batch of implications, like how Sam and McNamara became inversions of themselves, and the way Paul's boss says "I forgot" on the phone (which I took literally, like he just forgot) seems to show that it's not the same people who remain.
Another implication is the fact that later in the franchise we learn that the alien is a Lord In Black, and in Yellow Jacket, he shows up in a different form, this time, once again erasing people's identities and puppeteering them for his own goals.
I could perfectly imagine that their goal when they made TGWDLM was something more similar to what you proposed in the video, but currently I think it makes more sense if Paul actually doesn't get to be happy in the first musical, and simply dies, achieving the Apotheosis only because the infected become a memory inside Poky, the Lord In Black.
My favorite song is I Like Bananas Because They Have No Bones.
It means the singer likes bananas, because they have no bones
Seriously though, It means that the singer just wanted to make people laugh.
I feel like I truly understand Paul as a character better than I ever did, this is a great analysis
This is actually one of my first and only experiences watching a musical. I love musicals but idk I’ve never gone out of my way to see many, but this one is amazing
"an elevation from to a god like state" oh pokey you silly boy
I think at the end when talking about Paul, you quote let it out, but to me in that song it feels like half the song isn’t Paul. As you said before an alien infects someone they take over the body, the og host can’t do anything, and in the song you can hear Paul constantly changing pitches and tones as well as smiling when they change so that makes me think that the hive mind is trying to convince him to give in through himself. Like when he says “or maybe I never did” you can hear the pitch change from the previous line, as well as Paul suddenly smiling, making me think the aliens are trying to gaslight the dude so he stops resisting
pokey did a good job luring the characters into the hive mind
Have you heard of the theory that all the starkid shows are connected?
Its pretty silly, but the idea is that 'The Guy who didn't like Musicals' starts the timeline, everyone gets infected, and what follows is 'Black Friday' where everyone is singing. Then world is reset at the end, and humans are brought to caveman times with 'Firebringer', all thinking that breaking into song is normal.
From there, you can keep theorizing, but its a super fun theory!!!
Also, in tto, he refers to the watcher with a thousand eyes, blinkys title.
Tgwdlm, probably because of its insane popularity back then, was the first starkid musical recommend to me and how I discovered them. Looking back I'm almost sad that I started on such an absolute high note, but then all their stuff is lovable and quotable as hell, even if tgwdlm has a special place in my heart 😂❤ I still listen to the album on Spotify when the fancy strikes me, and wonder at how Inevitable weaves all the melodies together like that!!
Great video! Love your voice, the editing and the content. I'm gonna see if more videos of yours stand out to me, this one was amazing!
My love for musicals 🤝🏻 My love for video
essays
🪄This video🪄
the name of the musical also has implications. you just don’t tend to think of those implications when actually watching it
yeah, the fact that its past tense kind of tells you how the story’s gonna end from the start
Wasn't expecting the Central Park cameo lol
Wow I never actually thought that much about Paul’s character but everything you said makes so much sense, I remember being confused as to why he was even willing to go with Bill to help Alice but in this context… holy shit.
so glad this video got recommended to me along with all the other starkid stuff i'm obsessing over ever since their newest show got released 🥰 excellent essay, fingers crossed for an analysis of nerdy prudes must die in the future...!!!
tgwdlm and black friday have been my favorite starkid projects for the past four years. i love the characters so much and they’re both so well done
literally love this analysis - I had interpreted the emotions that come out through the songs more as the hive mind using the people in the most manuplative ways to persuade people to join their side but the idea of unresolved emotions coming to the surface works really well and I love it!!
Overall it's a good essay, I have to say. I might have one major issue with TGWDLM but I can't deny the pluses that it have, and the ones that you pointed out. And hey - I love how you made me think about Paul the way, I never thought of feeling.
Would you mind sharing your major issue with the show?
@@roozz33 Meteor scene: It was established, that he is near the meteor, so why didn't he blown it right away?
This scene could've been done better, is what I am trying to say: Imagine if he had to go from one end of hall to another and closer he gets, the better his "PROXIMITY TO THE METEOR" takes control over Paul? It was established, that stage, is not a limitaion for the cast, as we saw in a couple of scenes.
I still love the rest of the show, and I would not deny, that this is the show, where I literally remembered all of the songs first, as opposed to Twisted, where I knew only the tittles and maybe a couple of melodies, after the first watchthrough.
And freak, if I were subjective kind of guy, I would've said something like "I know Twisted is better written story, and emotionally it hits me harder, but hey - I am more in love with tgwldm, because it gave me more emotions and it was an original work by them".
But I am sadly the kind of guy, who loves objectively best works as their number one pick.
@@AlinaAniretakethe show establishes why he doesn’t just immediately blow it up: if he pulls the pin, he dies. he hesitates bc he doesn’t want to die; he wants to be with emma. and the longer he hesitates, the harder it is to resist the hivemind. if he was far from the meteor, like you suggested, then why wouldn’t he just throw the grenade at it? grenades are meant to be a ranged weapon, he’d have no reason to get close. you could say it’s a plot hole that he got close in the first place, but when he entered he thought he was alone and didn’t know the spores would be affecting him; he didn’t have a reason to think he had to throw it immediately.
@@chromaticroses I Can't say, that it's a plothole, btw, since the script itself doesn't establish, that he is near the meteor - I made a mistake back in the day. I'd call that poor directing, since they had the whole auditorium (I don't know the right term) to work with (hell, they even started this scene with him entering from there).
Ok, but when he started to be infected by the hive - why didn't he immediately threw the granade then? Like at that point it should be obvious for him that "ok, I'll never be with Emma, I am close to dying...Guess I'll die (throws granade)" - instead he finishes the song, letting himself be spored even more, before finally doing what he was going to do anyway.
And I love the last argument you said)
"He didn't have a reason to think he had to throw it immediately" - yeah, it's not like the whole town is fucked and could've hunted him. It's not like he has a girlfriend that got seriously injured, which is why she is a great Target for Hivemind.
Like even if those thing weren't a thing - why wouldn't he immediately throw a granade at meteor in theory? What would he wait for in theory?
But the fun thing is - since those times that scene is no longer my biggest problem with "the Guy who didn't like Musicals", because I found two more (and they both have a lot in common (Both feature my favorite songs from this musical, and both feature mediocre songs somewhere near those scenes (both sang by Jeff Blim as a lead (what do you want Paul is not one of them)), Both have characters dying in a natural for their characters way, and both scenes best case scenario should've had a different approach, worst case scenario shouldn't have happened at all. And both scenes feature action (or missing action) from Professor Hidgens))
@@AlinaAniretake again, he didn’t throw the grenade because *he didn’t want to die*. most people aren’t ready to blow themselves up at the drop of a hat. sometimes, when people are in stressful situations, they don’t act completely rationally. if every character was completely rational we’d have really boring fucking stories. not throwing the grenade immediately was a mistake, yes, but one that’s completely reasonable for a character to make. wanting to get a better look at the thing to decide what to do is completely rational. *should* paul have considered that it wasn’t safe in the theater? maybe, but he didn’t realize it until it was too late.
also i have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about with the rest of your message and don’t really care
More implications for you: the last line Paul says before the meteor is “you come on a bit strong with that saving the world shtick. Its not like I’m going to do that” (or something along those lines) basically foreshadowing him as the ‘hero’. However, stopping the aliens was never referred to as saving the world, rather, the only thing referred to as saving the world was the infection itself. The line was never foreshadowing Paul overcoming the aliens, but the opposite, spreading the infection to the mainland and saving the world.
This also ties into the first few lines of the bridge of The Guy Who Didn’t Like Musicals, “it’s the end of the world Paul, if you don’t sing…”. It goes on to explain some basic music theory in the next line, but if you separate the lyrics it once again implies that Paul can only save the world if he sings.
Also in La Dee Dah Dah Day, the lines “do you want to save the planet?”
“There’s just one way you can do it”
“By singing a song”
This show really is so strong and so thought provoking! Great analysis!
Basically my fav musical as well, love your background music too, i love A Hat in Time and Omori :)
This was brilliant! I’ve seen TGWDLM a least four times since it’s release and I knew some moments flew over my head but your analysis brought on a whole new understanding! Guess now I’ll have to rewatch the musical and see what new discoveries I unearth - amazing video thank you for sharing!
I love when people talk about Starkid and I love when people reference Community, so thank you!
I do also have a vid abt Community S4. If you liked this video, you should check it out.
Thing about using the phrase apotheosis as an ascension to godhood is, when TGWDLM first came out, I don’t think fans knew about the entities that were the lords in black. Now with the lore that nightmare time gives us, we know the real villain of TGWDLM is pokey, one of the LiB who has been described in nightmare time 2 to hate any voice that isn’t his own. Since the LiB are basically eldritch gods in a sense, the idea of pokey connecting all of hatchetfield to his own mind and voice through song does kind of feel like he’s ascending ordinary people to godhood on his own level.
I like that you used summer love from Lisa
Great analysis! TGWDLM is definitely one of my favourites as well:)
they sing cuz Pokey is an annoying theatre kid, but the theatre being the reason they sang was such a good theory
This is a fantastic analysis
such a good reading!! this is one of my favorite musicals and i love to see it get love
TGWDLM is a really special one to me, with my only gripe is that I guess I’m having trouble getting the *point* of it, like what is the moral or voice of the musical. There is a lot of fabulous characterization, comedy, drama, and ingenuity, but when I try to reflect on meaning I kinda come up empty.
To me it was the start of their horror anthology. I don't know that this is actually true. This is just my head cannon at the very least.
My interpretation is that it's about the rise of fascism in the States.
There's overt references to this in the following songs:
"Show Me Your Hands" (a song that's specifically about police brutality, how often civilians are expected to deescalate encounters with officers, and even references how officers can give weird or even contradictory commands to the people they apprehend)
"America is Great Again" (the title being a direct reference to Trump's 2016 campaign slogan, and the song containing lyrics like "Two party system left and right, there's only room for right and wrong" (can be read as the common fascist tactic of reducing nuance to a black and white, good and evil situation, but could also be interpreted as meaning there's only room for conservatism and wrong) "The loudest become the strong" (which isn't far from an actual fascist talking point specifically in how fascism aims to overrule marginalized (or "quiet") voices, and the appeal to strength being a signifier of righteousness), mentioning "the final solution", "There's a war to be fought in this country against those who are far too bold", "Americans should fit a mold", "You're staring down the gun, 'cause you're easily disposed".
The hivemind can easily be interpreted as an analogy for fascism, specifically in that rather than everyone being equal, or being promised equality from the hivemind, which is how hiveminds are usually depicted in America sci-fi as they started out as an analogy for communism, the hivemind is specifically controlled by one entity who dictates how everyone else in the hivemind should act, a dictator if you will.
While Professor Hidgens does come to the conclusion that humanity becoming a hivemind is for the greater good, as it would solve humanity's problems, this could be taken as a reference to how some people can end up advocating for fascism without realizing it, usually because they think little of fellow humans; how many times have you seen someone argue, even as a joke, that there should be a test people pass before they're allowed to have children?
Finally is the way the hivemind expands:
First, when it's weak and few, it does so through song and dance; this is probably the weakest comparison, but it could be seen as an analogy for fascists using media to convert people? There's also the scene of Paul's infected boss, trying to get Paul to not only sing along, but also divulge information about himself; this is more of a cult strategy, pretending to be friendly and build a rapport, while also learning the target's potential weaknesses. I haven't heard of fascists using it as a recruitment tactic, but it wouldn't surprise if they did.
Second is what happens once the hivemind's numbers are large enough; Professor Hidgens even highlights this in the musical, stating that hivemind becomes bolder and more aggressive the larger it grows. This could signify the turning point where, when fascists think their numbers are strong, and that enough people agree with them, they too become bolder and more aggressive.
Third there's what happens after it absorbs the members of P.E.I.P; the hivemind at this point seemingly gains the ability to convert people instantly as we see with Ted. This could be seen as a reference to how often fascism and military goes hand in hand; fascist dictatorships usually arise either through a take-over by a charismatic leader (again, in reference to how the hivemind originally came across) or through a militaristic take-over.
Finally there's the scene where the hivemind attempts to convert Paul, and in the end succeeds. The hivemind here is specifically lying to Paul; it promises Paul freedom, that if he submits to it, he can have what he wants. This is a really common tactic used by fascists for the sake of recruitment; telling people that they are oppressed and taken for granted in the current system (which they probably are, because capitalism, as the sequel "Black Friday" points out), and that becoming part of their organization will make them happy and give them what they really want. This is a lie of course.
There's also two specific sets of lyrics in "Let It Out" that I want to point out, but I saved it for this section, as I felt the context in this segment was necessary:
"Is my integrity worth anything at all? But happiness can't come before its fall" It's interesting to note that when Paul is singing, part of it is him, while the other is the hivemind trying to convince him, and it usually shifts between each line. The first line can be seen as Paul, trying to cling on to his integrity; he's been fighting the hivemind all this time, trying to do the right thing, and now he finds himself tempted to succumb and join it. The hivemind then answers through Paul that "happiness can't come before its fall"; "its" in this line, given how it's sat up, must therefore refer to integrity. The hivemind is directly telling Paul to give up on his integrity in order to become happy.
"It's awful freeing now to share the hate I felt. But what will I let in if I let it out?" This time, the first line is sang by the hivemind. And it is hear that we see what the hivemind actually wants, and combined with Paul's following line, we learn what the "it" in the song is that the hivemind wants to let out; hate. Fascism is an ideology very much based in hate; hate is how it motivates its followers, usually by directing them at a scapegoat. While the hatred is specifically referring to Paul's dislike of musicals, it is worth noting that fascism works by taking justified anger or hatred for small, or again, justified things, and nurturing it into a weapon it can use to fight for it, and we can see that in Paul's response "what will I let in if I let it out?". He is asking himself what he will let in, what he will allow to take room inside of him (literal in reference to the hivemind, figuratively as the analogy for fascism) if he gives in to his hatred.
With this interpretation, it also paints a very different picture of the last thing Paul did before he joins the hivemind. He sings the line "God help me if I let it out" and then shouts that he doesn't like musicals. While at cursory glance, this seems like an act of defiance, especially coupled with him throwing the grenade and blowing up the meteor, and Paul probably perceived it that way as well, we know that by letting out his hatred, he lets the hivemind in.
This is not a super strong point, but even the ending can be looked at through this lens; at first we assume that everything is over, the hivemind was stopped, but then we learn that infection has reached the mainland. This could be seen as in reference to how after WW2, some countries killed surviving nazis on sight and others tracked them down and prosectued them, the US gave several nazi scientists asylum in the states.
My final point, which I will admit is a stretch, but I thought it was a fun little bonus, is how this interpretation ties into how each main character succumbs to the hivemind:
Charlotte is converted by her infected husband after he promises to do better by her
Bill chooses to die after learning his daughter was converted; with her telling him that it was his fault, and pointing out his blind spot in trying to protect her from the evils of the world. It can also be theorized that Alice was converted by her girlfriend Deb, judging from her call with Bill. I also think it's worth pointing out that Bill is the only main character whom the hivemind does not try to convert; the infected Charlotte and Sam ignore him in favor of Ted, and the infected trio of Alice, Deb, and Bumblebee don't try to convert him after shooting him, instead choosing to focus on Paul. The reason why I point this out, is that Bill is also the only black main character, and fascism is severely linked to racism.
Professor Hidgens is, as mentioned above, convinced that joining the hivemind is the right thing to do, and actively chooses to join the hivemind.
Ted, the cowardly asshole, is quickly converted by P.E.I.P.; he left his friends to die out of self preservation, and is then immediately converted by a military unit wielding guns.
Paul's conversion is described in detail further up, but he basically succumbs to his own emotions, giving the hivemind an in to convert him.
So yeah, this ended up being a lot longer than I first expected, but basically TLDR: I think the musical is an analogy for the rise of fascism in the USA, and the moral can basically be seen as a cautionary tale, kinda like Little Shop of Horrors
@@Mathee Very well said and fair! Considering the relationship with capitalism in the follow-up, I can very much understand that and have been pondering on it a little bit. Especially with Paul’s early complacency and disinterest, and clear homage to body snatchers. I guess to me personally the message gets weaker when looking at the general helplessness and blamelessness of the protagonists, but I also understand that’s part of the power and strength of the horror genre. I wish there were more obvious roots and responsibility of “oh it was always here, at least a little bit”, but I also get that’s what “letting it out” kinda is. But that also gives an implication that it’s part of all of us and inevitable which can be a little icky.
Totes can see and agree with a lot of those observations, and with America is Great Again and the cops, it’s clear they have a direction for the important fascism as horror message. Just to me the dedication to genre ever so slightly muddles it.
@@BestgirlJordanfish I agree that the message was a little muddled; this was Starkid's first attempt to write a musical with a political message, but they improved a hell of a lot with Black Friday, and I think that's what's most important
Does everything have to have a meaningful message? /gen
tgwdlm is my favorite too. and the deeper you did, the better it gets.
Entirely unrelated note but I had a physical reaction (positive) when Louie Zong’s Horn Dawg Shuffle started playing in the background lmao
omg this is such good quality!! please keep it up~ i loved this video!
hands down the BEST analysis i've seen!
I like the idea that Paul has tried in the past to like musicals, but he gets way too uncomfortable.
Like he doesn’t dislike musicals for the reason other people refuse to like them, that they’re cringey and has a bad stigma, but instead because he just finds it uncomfortable.
8:48 came here for starkid but is that music from Lisa The Painful??? incredible taste omg instant sub
that's such a great take on the Hive's strange and complicated relationship with its hosts!! your analysis of Charlotte and Paul pre/after infection makes so much sense
I LOVE THIS MUSICAL SOOOO MUCH!!!! WHAT IF I. EXPLODED
im just so happy this musical is getting a video essay. I'm. Fifodthig!!!!
This just made me love Paul even more. I didn't know that was possible. It also made me love Paulkins even more eeeee!!!! Also I am going to sob about Paul now
Just saw this musical a couple of weeks ago.
It’s brilliant
I didn’t laugh as much as Twisted, but it is certainly the most creative musical I’ll ever seen
I showed this to my parents the other day, and their reactions at the end when Paul sings was everything 😂
Twisted is definitely in my top 10 favorite musicals of all time
I do think this is their best show so far and an important enough one that they should sell royalities for at some point, it's too good to sit wasting away when this kind of thing is meant to be seen live
This video gave me surprise therapy. I feel gently attacked and grateful.
Scream It Until You're Coughing Up Blood