Captain Magnar, as a Professional Airline Pilot myself, with a background in all phases of training, I would like to extend a most sincere and appreciative thank you for all you hard work in creating these videos. While there are others that present similar information, some with ‘higher production ‘, your content is most relevant and hopefully is assimilated by other professional pilots gaining them valuable wisdom to use in their careers. IMHO the level of training and ‘passed down cultural from seasoned pilots’ is becoming more rare. Hopefully this can be a productive means of this most important ‘experience’ to the next generation of professional pilots. And from a previous Dash 8 pilot…. ‘Silly Rabbit, Jets are for kids!” ;-)
Hello Captain Magnar, such a good advice ! In France we call it "giving back the hand" meaning you have give it some " release" before final touchdown. Thanks again 🙏
As a flight despatcher and Manager Fleet Technical Support on ATR for long, I have been doing a lot of observation flights innthe fligjt deck of ATR 72-500/600. I always used to wonder why the PF releases the back pressure on the control column just before touch down. Thanks for explaining this.
This video is great! I have flown into airports with no go around, one way in, the other way out. In these airports being a 'master of a destabilized approach' can save the day. the principle is to correct early. for example if its a tight turn on to final approach, go straight to maximum allowable bank while still high so that when low and slow we can reduce our bank. Over the years I see pilots start with normal bank and then when low and slow "oh oh i need more bank" and then end up at 40 degree bank! Same thing with rate of descent, while high correct with a 1000 fpm rate for a few seconds so that in the last 100 ft you are stabilized with a target of +4 degrees pitch at 400fpm for the last 50 ft with speed bleeding off.(glassy water landing technique where it is impossible to judge height above touchdown). Just like we learned in flying school, when leveling off at altitude we reduce ROD/ROC at 10% of our rate of descent/climb, if we have to maintain high rate of descent to get back on profile, at the very latest we start reducing our rate at 10% of our rate above the 100 ft that we want to be stabilized at. (this is extreme, by 500 ft we should start reducing rate of descent) Another thing pilots don't seem to know, is that if landing flap is selected when close to min speed for approach flap, you feel little to no trim change, so that means in gusty turbulent conditions landing flap can be delayed to "landing assured" before selecting landing flap. (I have seen pilots select full flap and go "hands off" the stick with no pitch change while flap is running from approach to full on DHC6 and DHC8/300).
Sadly I don't understand every aspect of what you say, just because I'm an amateur, but the way you present every detail is just so interesting. Thank you for doing this!
In smaller planes a bounce usually dampens best by «freezing» the pitch and just let the aircraft settle by itself. Moving the stick back and forth it is too easy to get opposite the airplane natural oscillation and actually worsen the bounce.
The airline I work for has one airport in the route structure that, because of the runway length and runway surface (gravel) requires a steep slope approach to get a max structural landing weight arrival. This results in an approach with aprox 1000’/min down to the point where you hear the Velcro of the seat cushion tearing away from the seat pan. Then you start a flare and a power reduction. 😂 I often find that a VERY slight push on the yoke at the last moment does result in a reduction of the firmness of the landing. That being said, firmness is the target on a steep slope approach or you lose some benefit of the physics of a steep slope approach. Thanks for the video! Cheers
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I have the same experience with steep approach. In Norway, I flew the 42-320 on a 5.4 degrees slope onto an 800 metres long runway. I ended up using a two-flare technique: At 50 ft, I made a flare to a normal attitude, and from 20 ft, the landing was normal.
Well I think tha some of those advice it’s very difficult or outright imposible to implement in la nubia since it does not have an ils app and the sloping terrain makes the radio altimeter very unreliable besides the runway it’s sloping upwards and it’s very narrow with very variable winds due to the mountains and the non existence of a go around makes it very challenging I’m getting qualified right now to fly that same aircraft and route for easyfly and going there is very much a dreaded experience amongst all pilots within the airline and a bounced landing remains a distinct possibility
The biggest mistake was redusing power. I did that mistake very often when i started to fly heavy aircrafts in MSFS 2020 like Airbus A320 and Boeing 747. When you controling cessna 152 you can cut off your engine at 2000 ft, then make a deep dive and make a save landing at 100 Fpm. But this is not going to work with heavy aircrafts. With them i usually starting to decrease power only when i crossed runway threshold and at 30-20Ft above the ground. I saw that some pilots doing that only at touchdown. Which is cool.
Initially, that was my plan. ATR is typically a step in the career of a pilot. Therefore, there's a continuous flow of pilots through the ATR fleet, and it can be hard for the company to keep captains. As an instructor, I found myself attractive to ATR operators, especially when the aircraft type is new for them. So I stayed with the aircraft. And just now is it not attractive to become an A320 or B737 jockey. The pressure on the pilots in the US and Europe is immense.
Thanks for your question. The main rule after a bounce is: Keep the pitch as it is and add some power to maintain your speed. You should not push. However, this may not work in all situations. For example, if you were pulling hard on the control wheel at touchdown, you must release this back pressure. However, the nose must not be allowed to drop below the horizon.
Hi Magnar, thanks for the video. I have a question which is not directly related to the topic discussed, but anyway. What is the fuel consumption in cruise on the ATR-72-600 at maximum weight? Do you know by any chance the Q400 numbers at the same weight in cruise? Thanks!
Hi, the fuel consumption depends on the cruise level, which is determined by the weight of the aircraft and atmospheric temperature. On a standard day at maximum weight, maximum cruise level (service ceiling) is 20,000 feet. Under those conditions, the fuel consumption is 668 kg per hour. I do not know the fuel consumption for the Q400. It is heavier and has more powerful engines. Therefore, it would be unfair to compare it with the ATR at same weight. On a 300 NM sector, the ATR 72 burns 900 kg fuel. The Q400 burns about 30 % more, but it can carry up to 10 extra passengers at a higher speed. When it comes to economy, the ATR 72 in unbeaten on short sectors. The Q400 is suited for longer sectors where it can compete with jets.
Answer 1: On airliners like the A320, yes. The autoland system does just that. A transport category airplane is flown to the runway, and the nose wheel is lowered to the runway shortly after touch down. This gives better directional control and puts weight on the main wheels, which is important for braking. Answer 2: On light aircraft like the C172, no. They can be landed with the stall warning activated. From C172 POH: "Actual touchdown should be made with power off and on the main wheels first to reduce the landing speed. The nose wheel is lowered to the runway gently after the speed has diminished to avoid unnecessary nose gear loads." A perfect three point landing in a taildragger is achieved when the wings stall when all of the wheels are 1 inch above the runway.
The thing to keep in mind is that once you initiate the flare you should not push the nose down. As Captain Magnar has reiterated in the video, if you feel you have flared too high, you should release the back pressure. Pushing the nose down is an absolute no no, especially in a heavy aircraft as it can cause a nose touch down. It is also very important to keep the aircraft on the correct descent profile all the way to the flare. Initiating the flare too early can make you lose the runway sight picture and make it harder for you to judge the sink rate. If you lose the sight picture for some reason and you are at a high pitch, you should maintain it all the way to the landing (it might not be a super smooth landing but it will be within the limits). This will prevent a tail strike and a hard landing
I'm not agree that a little bit pitch down just before touchdown reduces impact force. In my opinion it increases one. Dispite moving main gears up when pitch goes down all of aircraft mass increases rate of dicent that increases impact force. Pitching down just before touchdown needs to reduce flare. I agree that autopilots work in this way.
@@FlywithMagnar this is exactly what you experience on a large jet. And the opposite is true: trying to salvage a potential hard landing by pulling hard at the very last moment tends to bury the main wheels into the runway! Tried both myself 😊
![YoungBoy Never Broke Again - Missing Everything [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dTYeMZGzOzw/mqdefault.jpg)
Captain Magnar, as a Professional Airline Pilot myself, with a background in all phases of training, I would like to extend a most sincere and appreciative thank you for all you hard work in creating these videos. While there are others that present similar information, some with ‘higher production ‘, your content is most relevant and hopefully is assimilated by other professional pilots gaining them valuable wisdom to use in their careers.
IMHO the level of training and ‘passed down cultural from seasoned pilots’ is becoming more rare. Hopefully this can be a productive means of this most important ‘experience’ to the next generation of professional pilots.
And from a previous Dash 8 pilot…. ‘Silly Rabbit, Jets are for kids!” ;-)
Thank you so much for your feedback. And I agree about the last statement. Big jets have never been my thing.
Hello Captain Magnar, such a good advice !
In France we call it "giving back the hand" meaning you have give it some " release" before final touchdown.
Thanks again 🙏
As a flight despatcher and Manager Fleet Technical Support on ATR for long, I have been doing a lot of observation flights innthe fligjt deck of ATR 72-500/600. I always used to wonder why the PF releases the back pressure on the control column just before touch down. Thanks for explaining this.
This video is great! I have flown into airports with no go around, one way in, the other way out. In these airports being a 'master of a destabilized approach' can save the day. the principle is to correct early. for example if its a tight turn on to final approach, go straight to maximum allowable bank while still high so that when low and slow we can reduce our bank. Over the years I see pilots start with normal bank and then when low and slow "oh oh i need more bank" and then end up at 40 degree bank!
Same thing with rate of descent, while high correct with a 1000 fpm rate for a few seconds so that in the last 100 ft you are stabilized with a target of +4 degrees pitch at 400fpm for the last 50 ft with speed bleeding off.(glassy water landing technique where it is impossible to judge height above touchdown).
Just like we learned in flying school, when leveling off at altitude we reduce ROD/ROC at 10% of our rate of descent/climb, if we have to maintain high rate of descent to get back on profile, at the very latest we start reducing our rate at 10% of our rate above the 100 ft that we want to be stabilized at. (this is extreme, by 500 ft we should start reducing rate of descent)
Another thing pilots don't seem to know, is that if landing flap is selected when close to min speed for approach flap, you feel little to no trim change, so that means in gusty turbulent conditions landing flap can be delayed to "landing assured" before selecting landing flap. (I have seen pilots select full flap and go "hands off" the stick with no pitch change while flap is running from approach to full on DHC6 and DHC8/300).
Keep up the great vids captain!
Thanks, will do!
Thanks for this Captain. I will keep this in mind and try it. Thank you for your videos. It's very informative!
Sadly I don't understand every aspect of what you say, just because I'm an amateur, but the way you present every detail is just so interesting. Thank you for doing this!
thank you captain Magnar, very informative as usual.
will try that landing technique on my next flight.
Great information, I fly the ATR..first time I hear about this, thanks
In smaller planes a bounce usually dampens best by «freezing» the pitch and just let the aircraft settle by itself. Moving the stick back and forth it is too easy to get opposite the airplane natural oscillation and actually worsen the bounce.
The airline I work for has one airport in the route structure that, because of the runway length and runway surface (gravel) requires a steep slope approach to get a max structural landing weight arrival.
This results in an approach with aprox 1000’/min down to the point where you hear the Velcro of the seat cushion tearing away from the seat pan. Then you start a flare and a power reduction. 😂
I often find that a VERY slight push on the yoke at the last moment does result in a reduction of the firmness of the landing.
That being said, firmness is the target on a steep slope approach or you lose some benefit of the physics of a steep slope approach.
Thanks for the video!
Cheers
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I have the same experience with steep approach. In Norway, I flew the 42-320 on a 5.4 degrees slope onto an 800 metres long runway. I ended up using a two-flare technique: At 50 ft, I made a flare to a normal attitude, and from 20 ft, the landing was normal.
Thank you, master.
great analysis
Another great video Captain 👍
Well I think tha some of those advice it’s very difficult or outright imposible to implement in la nubia since it does not have an ils app and the sloping terrain makes the radio altimeter very unreliable besides the runway it’s sloping upwards and it’s very narrow with very variable winds due to the mountains and the non existence of a go around makes it very challenging I’m getting qualified right now to fly that same aircraft and route for easyfly and going there is very much a dreaded experience amongst all pilots within the airline and a bounced landing remains a distinct possibility
Thank you ...!
Another Great Video Captain!
Thank you captain
The biggest mistake was redusing power. I did that mistake very often when i started to fly heavy aircrafts in MSFS 2020 like Airbus A320 and Boeing 747. When you controling cessna 152 you can cut off your engine at 2000 ft, then make a deep dive and make a save landing at 100 Fpm.
But this is not going to work with heavy aircrafts. With them i usually starting to decrease power only when i crossed runway threshold and at 30-20Ft above the ground. I saw that some pilots doing that only at touchdown. Which is cool.
Wow! I wouldn't have liked to have been on that flight.
Whats the reg of this aircraft?
Very informative thank you 🙏🏽
Hi Captain...Im just curious, why dont you upgrade to a larger aircraft or jet engine, since you mentioned in the end of the video
Initially, that was my plan. ATR is typically a step in the career of a pilot. Therefore, there's a continuous flow of pilots through the ATR fleet, and it can be hard for the company to keep captains. As an instructor, I found myself attractive to ATR operators, especially when the aircraft type is new for them. So I stayed with the aircraft. And just now is it not attractive to become an A320 or B737 jockey. The pressure on the pilots in the US and Europe is immense.
After a bounced landing, what's the suggestion how to use the yoke? I mean when go around is not possible.
Thanks for your question. The main rule after a bounce is: Keep the pitch as it is and add some power to maintain your speed. You should not push. However, this may not work in all situations. For example, if you were pulling hard on the control wheel at touchdown, you must release this back pressure. However, the nose must not be allowed to drop below the horizon.
thay have to be repare thatt rear presshure bulk-head incase itt blow upp néxt
Hi Magnar, thanks for the video. I have a question which is not directly related to the topic discussed, but anyway. What is the fuel consumption in cruise on the ATR-72-600 at maximum weight? Do you know by any chance the Q400 numbers at the same weight in cruise? Thanks!
Hi, the fuel consumption depends on the cruise level, which is determined by the weight of the aircraft and atmospheric temperature. On a standard day at maximum weight, maximum cruise level (service ceiling) is 20,000 feet. Under those conditions, the fuel consumption is 668 kg per hour.
I do not know the fuel consumption for the Q400. It is heavier and has more powerful engines. Therefore, it would be unfair to compare it with the ATR at same weight. On a 300 NM sector, the ATR 72 burns 900 kg fuel. The Q400 burns about 30 % more, but it can carry up to 10 extra passengers at a higher speed.
When it comes to economy, the ATR 72 in unbeaten on short sectors. The Q400 is suited for longer sectors where it can compete with jets.
@@FlywithMagnar Thanks for your time, captain!
That poor ATR..
Thank you for the video. Will this “release back pressure when landing gear is about 1foot” work on other aircraft like a320 and C172?
Answer 1: On airliners like the A320, yes. The autoland system does just that. A transport category airplane is flown to the runway, and the nose wheel is lowered to the runway shortly after touch down. This gives better directional control and puts weight on the main wheels, which is important for braking.
Answer 2: On light aircraft like the C172, no. They can be landed with the stall warning activated. From C172 POH: "Actual touchdown should be made with power off and on the main wheels first to reduce the landing speed. The nose wheel is lowered to the runway gently after the speed has diminished to avoid unnecessary nose gear loads." A perfect three point landing in a taildragger is achieved when the wings stall when all of the wheels are 1 inch above the runway.
@@FlywithMagnar Thank you captain!
The thing to keep in mind is that once you initiate the flare you should not push the nose down. As Captain Magnar has reiterated in the video, if you feel you have flared too high, you should release the back pressure. Pushing the nose down is an absolute no no, especially in a heavy aircraft as it can cause a nose touch down.
It is also very important to keep the aircraft on the correct descent profile all the way to the flare. Initiating the flare too early can make you lose the runway sight picture and make it harder for you to judge the sink rate. If you lose the sight picture for some reason and you are at a high pitch, you should maintain it all the way to the landing (it might not be a super smooth landing but it will be within the limits). This will prevent a tail strike and a hard landing
@@anasmaaz5731 just noticed your comment. Thank you very much for the additional tip as I'm doing the ATR type rating!
I'm not agree that a little bit pitch down just before touchdown reduces impact force. In my opinion it increases one. Dispite moving main gears up when pitch goes down all of aircraft mass increases rate of dicent that increases impact force. Pitching down just before touchdown needs to reduce flare. I agree that autopilots work in this way.
Not when you lower the nose 1 foot above the runway. There's no time for the airplane to increase its rate of descent. Airplanes have inertia.
The main gear descent rate decrease a little bit with this procedure. (Momentarely) But you need to do the input at the right moment.
@@FlywithMagnar this is exactly what you experience on a large jet. And the opposite is true: trying to salvage a potential hard landing by pulling hard at the very last moment tends to bury the main wheels into the runway! Tried both myself 😊
Wasn't navy
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