My name is Bob Ackroyd. I had the opposite experience on my mission in the Canada Montreal mission in the 70s. I was given a goal sheet when I arrived. I made 9 goals that I could do. One of the assistants to the president insisted that I make a baptism goal, but I argued that baptism was their choice, not mine. Finally, I gave in and wrote 32. Then, the AP was really mad because 2 would have been a reasonable goal for a French speaking mission in the 70s. Many Elders went home with none. I followed my 9 personal goals that made me a good servant of Christ and had completely forgotten about the 32 on that form. During my plane ride home, I found that paper and was surprised as I started counting how many people I had taught that had been baptized during my mission: exactly 32. God put 32 people in my path because I was living the 9 goals I had control over. I taught the gospel when most Elders taught the discussions. That was only one of my goals. It still is.
The missionaries worked on me for years... I used to tell them. "I've heard the discussions, tell me what you believe...speak from your heart. You're not selling vacuum cleaners."
My health coach would approve of your definition of goal setting. Saying you're going to lose X pounds/week is a result, not a goal. I will exercise X times a week, eat X calories a day, eat breakfast X days a week, etc are goals for which we have choice. I relate to Amulek saying I would not know. My older siblings all served missions and I was continually asked when I was going. Being an extreme introvert the idea of serving terrified me and I was inactive most of 20's until I realized I needed God and the church in my life. A short time later I had a meeting with my Bishop for tithing settlement. We said a short prayer to begin and then he looked at me in silence for about 2 minutes - which felt like an eternity - and said, I think the Lord needs you to serve a mission. Instantly I knew that was true and I left settlement with mission papers in my hand and went on to have the most spiritual growth of my life serving a mission in Tennessee. I knew but I would not know Great broadcast, as always, i love new insights that bring me different ways to learn/love The Gospel.
Before joining the Church, I would never share my testimony. But once I was baptized, I feel the Holy Ghost prompt me with the testimony I'm to share each Fast and Testamony Sunday. I once talked to my Stake President about it, and he told me I needed to share my Testamony every Fast and Testamony when prompted. It was partly for me and partly for someone in the congregation who needed to hear what I had to share! It has been almost 45 years for me, and on occasion, when I receive no spiritual prompting of the testimony I'm to share, I don't share my testamony. But that isn't often that that happens. I always pray that I am in tune with the Spirit and let Him guide my thoughts and words! I love to hear others' true testimony. It strengthens mine. There are so many aspects of the gospel to be shared! I'm just very grateful for my testamony!
I met a young man in a Singles Branch my husband served as 1st Councelor in. He had served his mission in a Scandinavian country. While serving as a Branch President he had to excommunicate a Sister, so he would say I had negative One baptisms on my Mission. However he found many genealogical records and did Proxy Baptisms and additional Temple Work for thousands of people. Gathering Israel is on both sides of the veil.
Hey guys, I listened to this episode at 36,00 ft on my way from Maui to Los Angeles. I have a protocol I do on every flight, once we take off. On the longer flights it always includes putting in my AirPods and studying the gospel with you and your guests as I look out at the clouds passing by. Otherwise you can find me listening in the US as I mow the lawn, fold laundry, vacuum, weed, and everything in between. Haven’t missed an episode and always leave feeling strengthened and enlightened and with one more arrow in my quiver as I lead discussions in my calling and with my family. I’ve listened to you both in person and you’ll be teaching some of my children in the upcoming year. Thanks guys!
My development was much the same as Dr. Sharp. I joined the church at 17 and went on a mission a few years later. Knew so little but that it was true. This is not a knock at anything said because this podcast is always amazing, but a simple observation that I have made through the years: Missions are so formative to our foundational experiences and growth that serve us our entire life. But if after maturing in the gospel, we are still referencing our missions because we haven't had any spiritual experiences since then I think something is amiss...
I am Brazilian. I knew that The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days Saints was true at the first week of teaching I was 18 years old. The Brazilian was and is ready.
Our son is serving in Brazil right now (Salinas, Belo Horizonte, Minas Gerais). Each week we love hearing about the many kind and amazing friends he is meeting and sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ with. Truly a Heavenly people!
That would be cool if Abinadi had the privilege to be that angle. I know that their is angels that are sent to us in time of need. One came to me and brought me great peace. How blessed we are to know that we are cared for far beyond our realization. carol
What a reminder that the moment I'm picking apart what the Prophet says, that's the moment I am dangerously close to cutting the string that connects me to God and sink into hell (to paraphrase Brigham Young).
Throughout my life I’ve often heard a statement referring to someone who has been blessed with a lot of worldly wealth, “He is very successful”. Perhaps that statement is true in the financial world, but “success” and being successful are very individually determined and defined. As full-time proselyting missionaries we could sometimes feel the only way we could be labeled as a “successful missionary” was to have lots of baptisms. There are other important items to consider before drawing that conclusion. I had a companion that pointed out to me the person of most significance that I would have the opportunity to convert during our mission would be me. That always stuck with me and it helped to make a big difference as I continued to complete my mission by reaching individual goals that strengthened my testimony and commitment to the Lord. If I compare me at the beginning of my mission to me at the end of my mission, I think I can consider myself having been a successful missionary.
Fasting for many days is not awful. It is incredible. I have sone it a few times now and I am always better for it. Let's do a 3 day fast together starting on fast Sunday in July. Who's in?
This was excellent! Please have Dr Sharp again! I liked many insights, one being the Nephites had many belief systems(as we do today) they also had people who were once righteous and had truth and light plus gifts of the spirit… but choose to turn aside and decide to follow the ideas of Nehor, which were that they could live wickedly and still be saved. Today we also have people leaving the Church, preferring to be wicked. Others leave the church but still basically live the commandments and don’t change their lifestyle much. I wonder if these people are rebellious or just offended or perhaps confused by some policies that seem hurtful to others…
Wow!!!! The story about your baptism goal is sooo inspiring!!! It gives me comfort of what I had faced and also witnessed others face. And to answer your question, I don't know if other missions have it this way now, but when I first entered my mission, we had statistical goals (1 baptism per month, etc.), but well into my mission, the goals (called "standards of excellence") changed into having a few based on habits (exercising, journaling, studying) with then having at least ONE in any of the statistics, because that at least showed that we did SOMETHING. I loved that my mission president did it that way! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on success in missionary work!!
I struggled with Alma's message as well here especially with the promise of destruction. I mean he reminds the people of how the Lord has saved their fathers and is with a covenant with him now with those people gone what you have is their children or grandchildren who probably does not understand or was too young back then to know the magnitude of those covenants their fathers have made. Alma here came to me as reminding the people that their fathers are indebted to the Lord and if they do not honor this they will be destroyed
Dr Sharp, I wanted to say on your story about the 8 souls you ended up answering your own question as to why they didn’t get baptized. You stated earlier in the episode that we must make goals on things we can control and just like Alma praying for people to be baptized the angels affirmation was that he was going just fine because he was working on what he could control himself! There 100% was 8 souls that needed Gods people and there attention. But you can not control the outcome. You can not control there agency. I had an experience where someone was given numerous chances to do Gods will but declined each time. So at the end of the day there was 8 but they may have not chosen it AT THAT time. Gods plan is eternal and not linear
I served in Laie Hawaii the only baptism l remember is my own son coming to be baptized while we were serving there but we did work alot with return missionaries to bring them back to church
Was it Elizabeth Caddy Stanton who said that we (women who worked for voting rights) are planting winter wheat that other hands will harvest. Surely the goal setting is comparable to planting winter wheat.
Dr. Sharp, ask the question about Missionaries setting a goal for baptism. I thought of Heavenly Father setting a goal of everyone returning to him So far He does not have 100%.
I really appreciate the great perspective on such a great section of the Book of Mormon. During the discussion you kept using the word failure in conjunction Alma’s preaching to the people of Ammonihah and at the same time speaking about the agency of the people. Failure implies that it was Alma’s fault the people rejected his preaching. Alma did everything he could to bring the gospel to the people. To fail one must not even try. The failure has to be laid at the feet of the people who “failed to listen” to the spirit of the Lord not Alma. I only point this out in hope to perhaps bring clarity not criticism. Keep doing what you’re doing. I thoroughly enjoy your thoughts and comments of this beautiful book!!
minute 37:33 - failed goals. Zion's Camp. The intent to find 8 souls and didn't. Was it possible to have success with Zion's camp? Of course; all things are possible with God - if it so be eternal good. But, what was accomplished in the process of Zion's camp? How much faith was sustained and developed? How many leaders were groomed and prepared from that one effort? Is it the goal that is important? Or how one faces the goal? Even if one fails to achieve the goal, will you strive on? Is a "zero" goal healthy - even if there are no non-members?
Br Bytheway, I looked on page 222 of Vol 23 of Journal of Discourses and I couldn’t find that quote from Pres. John Taylor re Angels and their concern for us. Would absolutely love to know the correct reference. PS. Thanks for your work. Absolutely inspiring! I keep coming back again and again.
I have been hearing that "Uchtdorf story" since I was a child -- sixtry years or so ago, and I've always hated it! Probably becasuse that missing out on the blessings I could have sounds so horrible!
Why did Alma give back speedily? Because the Lord tells Alma that these people are studying/planning to take the government down which Mosiah had just established and which he, Alma, has just spent 8 years setting in motion. The marriage of righteous governance and the Lord is evident here. The Nehors in Ammonihah were destroyed because they were wicked, yes, but they were studying to destroy the opportunity for others to be righteous and the Lord preemptively lopped them off (after He thoroughly warned them in advance and provided a repentance window).
Question: how is Helaman like the city of Zarahemla? I can see how Shiblon is like Gideon and Corianton is like Ammonihah (kind of...). Where can I find Dr Spencer's comparison?
My name is Bob Ackroyd. I had the opposite experience on my mission in the Canada Montreal mission in the 70s. I was given a goal sheet when I arrived. I made 9 goals that I could do. One of the assistants to the president insisted that I make a baptism goal, but I argued that baptism was their choice, not mine. Finally, I gave in and wrote 32. Then, the AP was really mad because 2 would have been a reasonable goal for a French speaking mission in the 70s. Many Elders went home with none. I followed my 9 personal goals that made me a good servant of Christ and had completely forgotten about the 32 on that form. During my plane ride home, I found that paper and was surprised as I started counting how many people I had taught that had been baptized during my mission: exactly 32. God put 32 people in my path because I was living the 9 goals I had control over. I taught the gospel when most Elders taught the discussions. That was only one of my goals. It still is.
Great story
This is so neat. My son just started his mission today going to San Jose and I just cried reading your post. Thank you for your optimistic goal.
I love that story and you do live those goals! Love you!
The missionaries worked on me for years... I used to tell them. "I've heard the discussions, tell me what you believe...speak from your heart. You're not selling vacuum cleaners."
Thanks for sharing your point of spiritual view and the end result, Fathers ways are truly wonderful, as your story tells,😊
I love John Taylor’s quote that we have angels round about us! So glad angels are pulling for me to make good decisions,
My health coach would approve of your definition of goal setting. Saying you're going to lose X pounds/week is a result, not a goal. I will exercise X times a week, eat X calories a day, eat breakfast X days a week, etc are goals for which we have choice.
I relate to Amulek saying I would not know. My older siblings all served missions and I was continually asked when I was going. Being an extreme introvert the idea of serving terrified me and I was inactive most of 20's until I realized I needed God and the church in my life. A short time later I had a meeting with my Bishop for tithing settlement. We said a short prayer to begin and then he looked at me in silence for about 2 minutes - which felt like an eternity - and said, I think the Lord needs you to serve a mission. Instantly I knew that was true and I left settlement with mission papers in my hand and went on to have the most spiritual growth of my life serving a mission in Tennessee. I knew but I would not know
Great broadcast, as always, i love new insights that bring me different ways to learn/love The Gospel.
Before joining the Church, I would never share my testimony. But once I was baptized, I feel the Holy Ghost prompt me with the testimony I'm to share each Fast and Testamony Sunday. I once talked to my Stake President about it, and he told me I needed to share my Testamony every Fast and Testamony when prompted. It was partly for me and partly for someone in the congregation who needed to hear what I had to share! It has been almost 45 years for me, and on occasion, when I receive no spiritual prompting of the testimony I'm to share, I don't share my testamony. But that isn't often that that happens. I always pray that I am in tune with the Spirit and let Him guide my thoughts and words! I love to hear others' true testimony. It strengthens mine. There are so many aspects of the gospel to be shared! I'm just very grateful for my testamony!
I met a young man in a Singles Branch my husband served as 1st Councelor in. He had served his mission in a Scandinavian country. While serving as a Branch President he had to excommunicate a Sister, so he would say I had negative One baptisms on my Mission. However he found many genealogical records and did Proxy Baptisms and additional Temple Work for thousands of people. Gathering Israel is on both sides of the veil.
The average person has to come in conduct with the church 7 times before they join. Be one of the 7 .
Thank you so much for this episode, one of your comments was an answer to my prayers
Hey guys,
I listened to this episode at 36,00 ft on my way from Maui to Los Angeles.
I have a protocol I do on every flight, once we take off. On the longer flights it always includes putting in my AirPods and studying the gospel with you and your guests as I look out at the clouds passing by. Otherwise you can find me listening in the US as I mow the lawn, fold laundry, vacuum, weed, and everything in between. Haven’t missed an episode and always leave feeling strengthened and enlightened and with one more arrow in my quiver as I lead discussions in my calling and with my family.
I’ve listened to you both in person and you’ll be teaching some of my children in the upcoming year.
Thanks guys!
My development was much the same as Dr. Sharp. I joined the church at 17 and went on a mission a few years later. Knew so little but that it was true. This is not a knock at anything said because this podcast is always amazing, but a simple observation that I have made through the years: Missions are so formative to our foundational experiences and growth that serve us our entire life. But if after maturing in the gospel, we are still referencing our missions because we haven't had any spiritual experiences since then I think something is amiss...
I am Brazilian. I knew that The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days Saints was true at the first week of teaching
I was 18 years old.
The Brazilian was and is ready.
Our son is serving in Brazil right now (Salinas, Belo Horizonte, Minas Gerais).
Each week we love hearing about the many kind and amazing friends he is meeting and sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ with.
Truly a Heavenly people!
My nephew is in Brazil right now and loving it! He loves the people, culture, language, everything about it.
That would be cool if Abinadi had the privilege to be that angle. I know that their is angels that are sent to us in time of need. One came to me and brought me great peace. How blessed we are to know that we are cared for far beyond our realization. carol
What a reminder that the moment I'm picking apart what the Prophet says, that's the moment I am dangerously close to cutting the string that connects me to God and sink into hell (to paraphrase Brigham Young).
Another fantastic lesson thanks Bros Smith, Bytheway, and Sharp! Hi from NYC!
I really love this episode. You’re actually going through verse by verse and teaching from the scriptures. Very refreshing and insightful!
Good to see Dr. Sharp. We were Claremonters at the same time. Brilliant man. Fun family.
You all are amazing teachers. Thank you for your service
As I send my kids on missions I tell them their missions are successful if the only convert they have is THEMSELVES.
Wonderful advice. There is no time limit for the lives we touch and when they are converted. We don't convert, God does.
Throughout my life I’ve often heard a statement referring to someone who has been blessed with a lot of worldly wealth, “He is very successful”. Perhaps that statement is true in the financial world, but “success” and being successful are very individually determined and defined. As full-time proselyting missionaries we could sometimes feel the only way we could be labeled as a “successful missionary” was to have lots of baptisms. There are other important items to consider before drawing that conclusion. I had a companion that pointed out to me the person of most significance that I would have the opportunity to convert during our mission would be me. That always stuck with me and it helped to make a big difference as I continued to complete my mission by reaching individual goals that strengthened my testimony and commitment to the Lord. If I compare me at the beginning of my mission to me at the end of my mission, I think I can consider myself having been a successful missionary.
Fasting for many days is not awful. It is incredible. I have sone it a few times now and I am always better for it. Let's do a 3 day fast together starting on fast Sunday in July. Who's in?
Thanks for the beautiful message ❤
I am from the Hanksville area named after Eph Hanks who is buried nearby in Cainsville.
A great place to visit prior to going to trek at Martins Cove.
❤’ N the timeline of your show . Thank you ❗️💕🥰
very great insights from doctor sharp
Thank you
Dang. He seems pretty sharp.
This was excellent! Please have Dr Sharp again! I liked many insights, one being the Nephites had many belief systems(as we do today) they also had people who were once righteous and had truth and light plus gifts of the spirit… but choose to turn aside and decide to follow the ideas of Nehor, which were that they could live wickedly and still be saved. Today we also have people leaving the Church, preferring to be wicked. Others leave the church but still basically live the commandments and don’t change their lifestyle much. I wonder if these people are rebellious or just offended or perhaps confused by some policies that seem hurtful to others…
Wow!!!! The story about your baptism goal is sooo inspiring!!! It gives me comfort of what I had faced and also witnessed others face. And to answer your question, I don't know if other missions have it this way now, but when I first entered my mission, we had statistical goals (1 baptism per month, etc.), but well into my mission, the goals (called "standards of excellence") changed into having a few based on habits (exercising, journaling, studying) with then having at least ONE in any of the statistics, because that at least showed that we did SOMETHING. I loved that my mission president did it that way! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on success in missionary work!!
👍🙏👍🙏
Thanks
I struggled with Alma's message as well here especially with the promise of destruction. I mean he reminds the people of how the Lord has saved their fathers and is with a covenant with him now with those people gone what you have is their children or grandchildren who probably does not understand or was too young back then to know the magnitude of those covenants their fathers have made. Alma here came to me as reminding the people that their fathers are indebted to the Lord and if they do not honor this they will be destroyed
Dr Sharp, I wanted to say on your story about the 8 souls you ended up answering your own question as to why they didn’t get baptized. You stated earlier in the episode that we must make goals on things we can control and just like Alma praying for people to be baptized the angels affirmation was that he was going just fine because he was working on what he could control himself! There 100% was 8 souls that needed Gods people and there attention. But you can not control the outcome. You can not control there agency. I had an experience where someone was given numerous chances to do Gods will but declined each time. So at the end of the day there was 8 but they may have not chosen it AT THAT time. Gods plan is eternal and not linear
I served in Laie Hawaii the only baptism l remember is my own son coming to be baptized while we were serving there but we did work alot with return missionaries to bring them back to church
I have always said, I can’t remember where I heard it but it is better to aim for the stars and miss than aim at a cow pie and hit it.
👏 👏
💙💙
Was it Elizabeth Caddy Stanton who said that we (women who worked for voting rights) are planting winter wheat that other hands will harvest. Surely the goal setting is comparable to planting winter wheat.
Dr. Sharp, ask the question about Missionaries setting a goal for baptism. I thought of Heavenly Father setting a goal of everyone returning to him So far He does not have 100%.
I really appreciate the great perspective on such a great section of the Book of Mormon. During the discussion you kept using the word failure in conjunction Alma’s preaching to the people of Ammonihah and at the same time speaking about the agency of the people. Failure implies that it was Alma’s fault the people rejected his preaching. Alma did everything he could to bring the gospel to the people. To fail one must not even try. The failure has to be laid at the feet of the people who “failed to listen” to the spirit of the Lord not Alma. I only point this out in hope to perhaps bring clarity not criticism. Keep doing what you’re doing. I thoroughly enjoy your thoughts and comments of this beautiful book!!
minute 37:33 - failed goals. Zion's Camp. The intent to find 8 souls and didn't. Was it possible to have success with Zion's camp? Of course; all things are possible with God - if it so be eternal good. But, what was accomplished in the process of Zion's camp? How much faith was sustained and developed? How many leaders were groomed and prepared from that one effort? Is it the goal that is important? Or how one faces the goal? Even if one fails to achieve the goal, will you strive on? Is a "zero" goal healthy - even if there are no non-members?
Another example of people asking” who is God that we should obey him?” As did King Noah and Pharaoh of Egypt …
Br Bytheway, I looked on page 222 of Vol 23 of Journal of Discourses and I couldn’t find that quote from Pres. John Taylor re Angels and their concern for us. Would absolutely love to know the correct reference.
PS. Thanks for your work. Absolutely inspiring! I keep coming back again and again.
I have been hearing that "Uchtdorf story" since I was a child -- sixtry years or so ago, and I've always hated it! Probably becasuse that missing out on the blessings I could have sounds so horrible!
We use the title for them of: Shiz.
It is short and easy to spell
People think the video was very nice and informative. I do, also. The reason I take crackers on trips is because motion sickness is very real.
Why did Alma give back speedily? Because the Lord tells Alma that these people are studying/planning to take the government down which Mosiah had just established and which he, Alma, has just spent 8 years setting in motion. The marriage of righteous governance and the Lord is evident here.
The Nehors in Ammonihah were destroyed because they were wicked, yes, but they were studying to destroy the opportunity for others to be righteous and the Lord preemptively lopped them off (after He thoroughly warned them in advance and provided a repentance window).
Good point!
Question: how is Helaman like the city of Zarahemla? I can see how Shiblon is like Gideon and Corianton is like Ammonihah (kind of...). Where can I find Dr Spencer's comparison?