2017 GSX-R1000 S2B: Episode 7 (Part 2) - Which is Best? ECU Flash vs. Power Commander
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- You asked - we delivered. Brock continues Episode 7 with a shootout between the Brock’s Performance Stage 1 ECU flash and Power Commander PCV (tested in E7 P1) vs. that exact PCV map imported directly into Gixzilla’s ECU because the Internet says, “That’s what you do!” Brock goes through his typical painstaking detail to keep the results as nonbiased as possible, while showing his tuning steps along the way. Is the Internet correct? Do we live in a ‘drag/drop/you’re done’ world? Check out Episode 7 (Part 2) - ECU Flashing (ECU vs. PCV Fuel Tuning Shootout) now.
The details :
Bike: Brock’s Performance 2017 GSX-R1000L7 Standard model (not the ‘R’ version) purchased from Fun For All Motorsports in Elizabethtown, KY
Exhaust: Brock’s Performance Alien Head 2™ full stainless exhaust system
Traction control: Motion Track Traction Control Standard (TC=OFF during testing)
Suzuki Drive Mode Selector (S-DMS): Power Mode=A (max power selected during testing)
Fuel used during test: 89 Octane Shell
Rear tire: Stock Bridgestone Battlax RS10 190/55/ZR17 - 35 PSI Nitrogen
Motor oil: Alisyn Pro Drive 21 Less than 0W (full synthetic)
Additive: Petron Plus 4-Cycle Lube
Air filter: Sprint Filter P08 F1-85 (see this link for detailed information: goo.gl/zgBcZG )
PAIR: Blocked
Power Commander: PCV with Brock’s Performance Track Map 1 or Zero Map, per video requirements
ECU: Modified, per video requirements (see this link for detailed information: goo.gl/TLKbvk )
FlashTune Quick Shifter / Auto Blipper Retrofit Kit GSX-R1000 (2017) (See this link for detailed information: goo.gl/KTcL6x )
5th gear pulls
Dynojet Model 250I dyno using DynoWare RT, Power Core C3 and WinPEP 8 dyno control - displaying the SAE scale (unless noted otherwise in video)
0:08 - Introduction / Where we left off
1:32 - Initial base run (Stage 1 ECU flash and PCV w/pump track map)
1:50 - Listing of current bike mods / Set-up
2:28 - Discuss base run results / Chart (194.14 RWHP SAE scale)
2:48 - Comparison of 650ib’s 2017 BMW S1000RR vs 2017 GSX-R1K (Dyno chart URL below)
3:18 - Link added to 650ib’s S1000RR tuning video
4:10 - Acceleration discussion (*BMW has taller gearing)
5:20 - FTecu map import (PC fuel import)
6:03 - PCV map successfully imported into ECM
6:22 - Removing PCV from equation (install zero map)
7:13 - Dyno run (ECU w/imported PCV Map, no PCV)
7:42 - “Hey Brock… just import you PCV map and everything will be ROSES!”
7:52 - Discussing results from PCV import dyno run (25 HP HOLE!)
8:52 - Every single throttle position vs. RPM must be adjusted to do this right
10:25 - Using the dyno as a data logger
10:50 - Determining throttle position for changes
11:15 - Using analog input to see throttle position
11:45 - Kicking it old school (throttle stop)
12:22 - How do we fix the all of these problems?
12:48 - Using the FTECU unrestricted map (sw1 and sw2 switch selection)
13:43 - Dyno run (ECU w/FTECU unrestricted map, no PCV)
14:25 - Discussing results from dyno run
15:30 - Identifying and correcting lean/rich areas vs. RPM
15:50 - Increment adjustments to the fuel table (adjust number vs. percentage)
17:19 - Adjusting the fuel table at partial throttle
18:18 - Using throttle position sensor and throttle stop
19:16 - Spoiler! We already have the map done
19:52 - Dyno run (Brock FLASH ECU Stage 1-F with fuel tune)
20:27 - Discussing final results
21:18 - Final ECU tune vs. baseline chart (194.14 vs. 193.51 with ‘similar’ drivability)
21:59 - Advantages vs. Disadvantages (why Gixzilla will have stage 1 flash and PCV at the track)
23:15 - Where are we going next?
650Ib’s BMW S10000RR (2017) vs GSX-R1000 (2017) Dyno Chart URL: brocksperforma...
Brock FLASH ECU Stage 1-F with fuel tune: brocksperforma...
Visit the ALL NEW www.BrocksPerformance.com - for additional information
What you did with this series was AMAZING, never seen before on internet, a masterclass, THANK YOU.
that's also what I love of this series! Never seen it before.
I agree. We are indebted and grateful.
@Brock Man I may be speaking for a lot of people on how we can't simply thank you enough for the all knowledge you share. I myself can really appreciate all of your informative videos you share around your busy as hell schedule..Lol. Keep up the good work & God Bless you Brotherman..🤘🍻
@Wildman 8964 - Thanks! Glad you are enjoying the S2B series.
Amen to that Wildman!
See long description for video time tags and additional information. Please e-mail dynoroom@brocksperformance.com to inquire about flashes for YOUR bike. Our new website does not yet list all of our options.
hey Brock love your videos first off. but I was wondering if you might be able to help me with. I recently bought a 07 ZX10R it has what I believe to be a Gen 1 ZX10R exhaust from you on it. is there anyway to truly tell.
@Jeremy - our customer support staff can help you with that question: sales@brocksperformance.com
Brock Davidson Hey Brock. When you receive the new recalled ECM did you just download your same Flash with the power commander of the previous ECM that you already made or did you create a new Flash and map for the new Ecm. Also can you explain more about the studded in gears 2 and 3 because I never felt it on my bike when riding. Did it show up everytime you did a all gears run?
apexhunter2k - the power commander import did not and still will not work. We had to alter the new (post recall) ECM image to match our previous modifications/tune. The bike would not studder every time - it made a very strange sound. The dyno chart is available here: brocksperformance.com/content/brocknm/PDFS/GSXR1000_2017_Post_Recall_Test.jpg we suggest everyone obtain the recalled ECU.
Brock Davidson ok cool, thanks
Just bought my 2017 GSXR1000R here in Alberta Canada. @Brock, i am very pleased with all of your efforts for this project. I love how technical you go for us techy guys. I will be purchasing myself as well as promoting your services. Cheers
This S2B series is some of the BEST content on RUclips. I love your scientific approach and keeping things honest. Your approach is definitely unique and appreciated. I'm looking forward to more content like this.
Thank you for the kind words and glad you are enjoying the S2B series. We try very hard to do exactly what you stated.
Best Video Series on RUclips. Please do more of this stuff.
194 hp on pump gas still makes me just chuckle with stupid uncontrollable joy!
Watching this episode again and I am STILL learning things I missed on my first watch
Welcome back!
Is it true the 2017 Aprilia isn't tuneable only with the PCV because the ecu corrects what you have done?
That's true with any modern ECU if the OEM Lambda sensors are plugged in and functioning.
Just what I've been waiting on & great job. I was all but about to have you'll flash my 2017 GSXR 1000 last yr. But decided to wait to see what you done next. Glad I did. I'll be in contact here soon
Mind boggling stuff, just amazing how you can understand it all
Wait until you see the next vid ;)
Thanks Brock. You proved my tuner knows his shit. When I took my K7 Gixxer 750 in he told me to keep my PC3 to tune with the flash he did. He gave me the graph showing the bike when it arrived, after the flash and after the flash and PC3 map. Hell, he even emailed the PC3 map in case my PC3 ever fails.
I can't believe this was 3 years ago seams like yesterday theses videos came out.
DUDE seriously. I remember anxiously waiting for the next episode like it was a t.v. show
@@kayhoww Brock Davidson is the man if i was a motorcycle I'd only want him to work on me.
My gsxr1000r 2017 sometimes the auto blip doesn't want to blip from 6th gear back to 5th. Sometimes it will double blip. What should i do? No error codes were found at all.
Only happens from 6th gear back to 5th and from 5th gear back to 4th gear. Best auto blipping only happens when The RPM is higher than 3500. Very rare. Is it a Voltage drop situation? Thank you from Thailand.
Sounds like your chain is too loose - when this happens, the resulting backlash will not allow the shifter to function properly: ruclips.net/video/-cgGG2Vh7qg/видео.html
@@BrockDavidson Thank you so much. Greetings from Thailand. 🙏🤘
I love the passion that you have for this and that you don’t give up when things may look the best but you make them even better. You squeeze as much power out of these bikes as much as you can!
That's how old racers work ;)
Brock Davidson do you recommend a power commander or a ecu flash tune (still on the dyno) for a 2017 Honda cbr 1000rr?
this might help you? blog.brocksperformance.com/faq/do-i-need-a-pcv-when-installing-a-brocks-performance-exhaust-system/
I wish you did series like this with an oldschool gixxer with carbs. This is amazing material though, keep rocking Brock!
Brock,thank you for very informative videos! Tell me please, how to tune bikes with ram air intake? Do I have to tune them richer at high rpm and how much? Thank you!
Please read this: bit.ly/2EJ1zAV and please feel free to browse our entire knowledge base. It answers questions that you don't know to ask , yet 😉
Another great video. To get a glimpse of all the effort you go to, to get the best out of this bike is great.
Thank you
Brock, I just love your channel! Watched twice, but still have a question. Maybe misunderstood something. How do you understand actual throttle blade opening on ETV bikes? What does TPS percentage in fuel map mean? Throttle grip or ETV?
Thank you!
@Турбо Тёма - Great questions! If the bike is throttle by wire - aka has only one set of throttle blades, the easiest way to read the blade angle is by viewing it through a power commander. If a PCV is not on the bike, you must configure a 0-5v analog input to measure (not easy for most) - our use an OBD2 reader (either handheld or through dyno input) TPS means Throttle Position Sensor - this is the blade angle on single blade/throttle by wire applications...not to be confused with grip angle as the ECU overrides rider input in these applications unless the ECU is reprogramed to ignore the override. We call this derestricting the ECU and making the ETV (throttle Blades) 1 to 1 ratio with the grip. Hope this helps.
@@BrockDavidson Yes, I have already watched your 3 part where you use scotch lock connected with ETV signal wire)
@@BrockDavidson Brock, tell me please: how about IAP tuning? Is it really necessary after installing full exhaust? Or TPS tuning is enough?
Actually i would pay for my questions if you have such an option. I have got a lot of them! Thank you!
What 3rd party tuning software do you use?
@@BrockDavidson Woolich racing
Great video, thanks for the time and effort in producing and uploading it. I've been wondering whether to go ecu flash or PC5 on my 750. seeing this, I think I've decided PC5 for my requirements will be just fine. Yes, maybe a touch more outright power from a dedicated ecu flash but its going to be negligible gains over a Pc5, that will also be custom mapped for my bike anyway. Great video.
Really amazing stuff going on here man. Thank you so much for sharing. I'm wondering what your opinion is on the Rapid Bike full controllers that auto tune the motorcycle all of the the time?
Thanks @Jaret Campisi - I enjoy your channel also. We haven't used the latest Rapid Bike fuel tuners, but we have heard good things about them from a few customers.
Right on appreciate the response. I'll be riding with ours for a few hundred miles and then putting it on the dyno so we'll see how it does...
Hi Brock, my local tuner in the UK keeps telling me to go the ecu flash route to sort out the fuelling etc, In your opinion is a Power commander the better route or should I go with the ECU remap?
Thanks Mike.
blog.brocksperformance.com/ufaqs/how-can-brocks-get-mapping-so-close/
Excellent series of videos, Brock ! A straightforward and detailed explanation of what you are doing and why. A benchmark for other RUclipsrs to try and emulate.
Excellent video, Brock. Well explained, and shows the intricacy (and complexity) of getting a really great tune. Thanks!
Thanks so much for sharing...so much hard work went into this...you truly are amazing. You cleared up so many questions I had...👍
Hi Brock, I’ve been following your stock to brock series very closely. I’m currently working on a 2017 GSXR1000R with Bazzaz ZFi & FTecu flash.
I’ve taken a look at the throttle plate mods which is already in place for the ECU number I’m using so I’d be expecting not much power gain from a base run I did on the dyno.
As mentioned earlier, the bike is running on Bazzaz ZFi, FTecu flash (EU flash), sprint air filter, decat with SC project end can. Do you know as to why I am not able to achieve a power gain despite the above?
Stock: 168-170hp
The 12krpm flat spot on bmw can be totally fixed with PVC? Or it does it need a flashing ecu also? Thanks In advance
We can tune it to be much better than stock using the PCV, but It needs to be flashed also to try to keep the throttle blades open 100%. I say try because BMW's Bosch ECU's don't work like the Suzuki's Denso unit - you can't just jump in and tell them what to do.
It really is a masterclass. It almost feels like you are telling too much from the kitchen.
But really Brock- props to you! What a stud
Good stuff brock. The gsxr is coming along good. Quick question: I have an 06 gsxr 1000. Would you recommend tuning with a pcV or flashing the ecu? Thanks
Both if you would like flexibility in your tuning. Flash alone if you want set and forget. Contact dynoroom@brocksperformance.com - we have a flash for your bike,
Brock Davidson
Thanks. Originally with a full titanium m4 GP exhaust with a teka box tune, produced 153rwhp and 80ft/lb torque. With your full alien head exhaust and pcv tune, produced 163rwhp and 78ft/lb torque. Just curious if flashing the ecu would produce more power than the pcv for my bike.
Hey brock,I have a brocks full alien head exhaust on my gsxr 750 and a Ftecu.com flash kit.Ive uploaded their unrestricted map but there are some areas where I feel the map can be improved.Brocks Map support sent me a map but that’s a pc5 map which you’ve explained won’t be the best option and since I don’t have a dyno or the tuning knowledge to adjust it myself what should I do ?.You mentioned you have these maps if one doesn’t have a pc5 but I only got maps for pc5.Any help would be appreciated thanks
@Ahmed, you can try to import our PCV map and go for a ride to see if it works better or worse than the basic derestriction map. Or, try one of FTecu's maps for a generic exhaust. The other option would be to install a PCV and make sure the base flash you are running has the stock fuel maps and secondary injector percentages.
Thank you from the UK brock I love your attention to detail I appreciate your info considering how much time all this takes you.. I can tell you put effort and care into your products.. look forward to more videos
I just buy bike K5 1000 with almost 50000 miles on it, dont know history, bike was already dyno mapped i have dyno print. Custom mapping here cost 450$. I am just street rider, enthusiast which want just that bike run smooth. For 450$ I can buy pcv and auto tune. Can you advice pcv to go or again custom dyno tune? Do you block PAIR system?
what euro4/emissions things (particule filter, sensors, software etc) did you end up deleting and changing? The s1000rr for example gains top end when blocking the nox sensor and relocating the air temperature sensor to further out the airbox. what kind of things do you think thr gsxr would benefit from?
Yeah this is an old video but I've just bought a woolich programmer/logger and am in the process of tuning my own bike. I'm technically minded and the systems are pretty straightforward if you're patient and dont' change things without understanding the impact.
I like that you're honest about the power commander vs flash situation. I also like that you're honest about the time it takes to develop a good flash map but that it's also worth it in the long run. Luckily for me with woolich specifically I can just ride around with the logger plugged into the bike and then load it into the software and adjust based on the logged AFR readings.
Once people start to realise that these systems are as easy as a DIY oil/filter change and less complicated than throttle body syncing we might find more people prepared to go down the DIY route. Especially those that do their own servicing.
Do you do anything else to modify your results from the auto tune? I have the same setup on my gsxr but I didn’t really find good instructions how to use it. I’ve just been playing around with mine and my bike works fine but I’m not sure if I’m using it right.
Thanks Brock! Epic series. Loved all of them. Question about humidity, if your dyno room was air conditioned could you get consistent results within a small percentage? I had my bike dynoed on a humid wet day and I cant say its perfect, would the humidity have been a factor?
The amount of energy needed to truly heat or cool a dyno with a smoking hot bike running inside is tremendous. We built our room inside a 12K square foot warehouse and use the temperature of the floor and concrete floor and surrounding components to help cool the inlet temps a bit. That said, in the heat of summer, that room might as well be located in the parking lot. We have seen 108 degree ambient room temps in the summer. The sensors on your bike allow a wet/humid summer map to work well year round. We do have hot weather maps for some bikes.
Hi Brock, great videos BTW, if I missed seeing it I apologize but does disabling the "deceleration fuel cut" smooth out any off/on snatch in the throttle response ? Thanks
Favourite current series on RUclips thank you for sharing Brock
Cheers mate. Cannot wait for the track work. Wow man wow.
I’m trying to wrap my head around ECU flashing vs a power commander. I have a tiger 660 and just installed a Zard full exhaust. I want to tune the bike now and debating whether to flash, install an power commander or both. What do you recommend. Also can I stick to the sock air filter or do I need to upgrade with the tune.
Thanks
This should help: blog.brocksperformance.com/faq/do-i-need-a-pcv-when-installing-a-brocks-performance-exhaust-system/
Very interesting Video .. I installed a Boon docker fuel controller and an Oxygen gauge on my Yamaha snowmobile because it ran way to rich stock .. My Boon docker does not control timing but a 4 degree offset keyway really improved my MPG and HP by just a little .. It's an R-1 engine that turns 10.500 RPM .. It's great to know how close stock timing is to perfect .
I have never worked with electronic fuel injection so of course I wondered how accurate and close the controls are how precise the injectors are ect.. there must be a lot of variables in flow ..
I deal would be 4 oxygen seniors 4 spark knock sensors and active tune controls for each cylinder.. Seems an onboard Oxygen gauge would be handy ..
Looks like your videos make a great sales pitch for the active tune system... For a street bike it seems like you can have the best of both worlds great wide open full power yet could cruising mpg ..
Your first gain of you explained is to get away from being too lean as stock bikes are..
Great videos !!!! One question, I have the s1000rr. I have a Rapidbike installed. Have you ever dynoed a bike with a Rapidbike installed ??? I'm curious to know if the AFR is on point ( smooth flat line).
Not recently.
Hey Brock, quick question. I have the exact setup that you show in this video on my 17 gsxr 1000, the ecu pump gas tune, alien head, sprint filter. If down the road I want to go to mr12 from pump gas what do I need to do? Do I need a pc5? I haven't seen anyone having multiple tunes with just ecu tuning on the L7 (which I would love for a, b, c modes) thanks in advance!
You will need a pcv and it's best to send your ecu back in to be adjusted to accept both tunes through a map switch.
Hey Brock, just came across this video and first have to say awesome job very much enjoy your videos and all the knowledge you put out there thank you sir. I do I have a question though you said there isn’t a problem with ecu fuel tuning but just with this bike specific. Have you seen or know if there is an advantage to running a power commander in combination with guhls flash on a 14r? I will be purchasing the AH2 full system in the next few days and was just going to send my ecu back to don to have the fuel corrected for the new exhaust, now I am wondering if I should have the fueling flashed back to stock and get a PCV lol thanks in advance.
@Playrich - there is a problem with this particular bike...but there are also many others. There is a long list of variables (too many to list, and highly technical) that determines the best know configuration for a particular model. We are experts on your 14R and have record-setting combinations from drag racing to land speed as a result of our combinations. If you would like to achieve our results, you will need to purchase our products. Here is more info. including a young lady who set a record of 212 MPH using only our bolt-on products and tuning. blog.brocksperformance.com/kawasaki-zx-14r-12-16-information-page/
With the inability to get a flash for a 2021ZX10R would you suggest a rapid tune or bazazz or a pcv or is there any way to tune through the stock locked ecu
Any piggyback can help - if available and tuned properly. No tuning whatsoever to a locked ECU.
Hi Brock... i've been watching from the begining and starting on the 190hp, passing by the 204 and now 190 again it sounds kinda strange... however, it's not all about HP... i noticed you never mentioned anything about torque, it is because you don't find it relevant for your tune or because you simply decided to ignore it...?
@MrGuerra - we have mentioned torque as the force that accelerates the vehicle from the beginning of the series. That said, we find that it's not easy for the average person to relate to this increase. In episode 2, we made 165.73 RWHP SAE- in E7P2, we are now at 194.14 RWHP SAE (an increase of 17.5%). It's fairly easy for most to understand that we now have a MUCH faster motorcycle. If I told you that we gained 6.19 ft-lbs of torque (a 7.5% increase) over that same period - would you understand this to mean the EXACT SAME performance gain? We will get into torque multiplication, and it's benefits (or downfalls) in more detail once we get to the drag strip.
Brock Davidson Thanks ! Apreciate your atention.
Also 204 was on MR12!!!!! Not not 89 pump fuel.
Hey brock, thanks for the really helpful videos. But i have a really important question that would help me out alot. Which one would be the best at races and topspeed with alot of modifications and everything, 2017 zx10r or 2017 gsxr 1000r? Please help.
Mohammed Al mutawa that is a tough call. Both will go very fast when properly set up. I would say that past history shows the Suzuki having a slight edge in aftermarket performance support.
Excellent explanation of this, and I truly appreciate that!
Hi Great to see and learn from your video, I just have a question I have MIVV full system exhaust, PCV and Stock airfilter on my CBR 650F I dynoed my bike to see the power output which is 81bhp saw another video where in the guy has flashed his ECU and his bike is showing 96 bhp , just want to know can I still flash my ECU from the same tuner keeping my PCV also working with same. Is it really possible to keep both
Glad you like our vids. Yes. As long as the fuel tables in the ecu are not altered, your pcv and maps will work like they do now. Please note, you will probably need additional pcv mapping after ecu derestriction.
Hi Brock, I own a 2015 ktm superduke. I left the stock headers but I replaced the catalyser with a link pipe and I have the Akrapovic slip on , I saved around 10 pounds ( 7 pounds from the catalyser and 3 from the slip on ) I didn’t replace the headers because It was way cheaper to take off the cat then to buy the 2 grand full line. I also removed the stock air box and installed the Rottweiler air box ( way more air comes in ) I installed a power commander 5 and an ignition module and had it tuned on the Dyno. I do feel that the bike is more powerful but I find that when the weather is hot and humid the bike doesn’t perform as well ( not even close ) to when the weather is cooler. Do you think that installing an Auto Tune would fix that problem? Another Question: do you think that the setup of my exhaust without the full Akrapovic header was a good idea? I mean do you think that the Akrapovic headers would have increased the performance? Cause in my point of view it basically ends up being equally the same. Thanks
petelpete - headpipes are the part of the exhaust that improve horsepower - a slip-on improves the look and sound. As far as hot/humid weather - some bikes compensate for it better than others. You can create your own -5% across the board 'hot weather' map and select between it and the map you are using by installing a map selector switch: brocksperformance.com/dynojet-map-selection-switch-power-commander-v/ if you had your bike tuned by a competent tuner, you should not need an autotune unit.
Thank you for the time it takes to make these vids. Great info!!!
I have a power commander and a plug and play quick shifter both Dyno jet brand. Auto-tune and unplug or auto tune keep it plugged or Dyno customized map? Thanks if you reply.
Either. It can stay plugged in, it only makes changes to the map when you tell it to. If you have a good base map, you shouldn't need it...if you dont, it can help. Hope this helps you.
Hello Brock, thanks for sharing this valuable information. Finally found for what I was looking for. Very well and clear presented. Keep up doing the good work! I am a fan now. Whish you all the best from The Netherlands.
@Maarten Kleijngeld - Thanks! make sure you like and subcribe - if you are already subscribed, hit the alert bell.
Hi Brock had no idea that an imported fuel tune from PCV would be so different inside the ECM, thanks for the knowledge and video again
@peter - The imports aren't usually THIS bad (as mentioned, this bike is a special case). That said, I haven't found one that will drop in and meet our standards. (not even close, in fact)
New video soon?? Will the next videos show the difference between stock rim weight and BST's they would look sick on her!
I would like to know how the 2018 zx10rr would stack up against both the s1000rr and the gsxr1000.
Brock, is there a reason why you wouldn't use Dynojet's Autotune module for AFR correction and datalogging?
Did somebody say "Carbon Fiber Wheels!" Oh boy, when this thing hits the drag strip, it is going to be insane!
So brock I'm confused when you talk about the exhaust on the bmw and the gsxr you said you went with the alien head cuase your going drag racing but if you wanted more midrange torque you would go for the predator. I thought midrange is exactly what you want to be better for drag racing doesn't the midrange help with acceleration?
@Jock - Great question. In drag racing and land speed, the bike spends almost all of its time in the high revs and WOT. We can make simple gearing adjustments if we want more torque or more speed. Dropping 1 tooth on the countershaft has more of an effect on acceleration than we could ever build into an exhaust. In road racing, the bike spends most of it's time with the throttle partially open, especially on short courses - this is where a broader power/torque range is most benefitial.
Hi Brock! Great vids boss!
I was wondering if you had any info on the ecm recall suzuki sent out. Is suzuki putting more restrictions on the ecm? Have you seen any problems before the recall at all?
Thank you sir..
Amazing work and knowledge !
@Kevinpowell329 the POST recall ECM and flash is looking GOOD:
brocksperformance.com/content/brocknm/PDFS/GSXR1000_2017_Post_Recall_Test.jpg
Brock Davidson THANK YOU SO MUCH!
@Brock - I don't know too much about drag racing, time to peak power clearly in the GIxxer's favor, but does that mean the BMW would be catching back up at the end of track, all other things being equal?
@Getis - Our GSX-R 1000 currently tops out on the dyno at around 183 MPH (OEM tire/gearing/peak rev limit, etc) The BMW will run @195 MPH with the same set-up. It would also depend on how long your 'track" - the BMW's speed would show up in a standing mile - not in a 1/4 mile.
First off I hope you made it through the Tornado and storms without damage.
How confidant are you that your method of tuning (single O2 probe) is accurate on all 4 cylinders given the fact the Suzuki has two different intake horns. Would monitoring each cylinder (or at least 2) to get a more accurate view of O2 be required with the additional flow? I ask because I’ve seen a tuner that found very lean cylinders yet the single point O2 appeared correct on a piped de-restricted bike.
I have your Predator and PCV on my 2018 and it runs great, so I’m happy. I only ask the question because I see how methodical you are at tuning, and I figured you would “leave no stone unturned” on you quest for perfection.
@B Lawrence, Thank you - closest tornado was about 1 mile north of Brock's, we are fine although two Brock's employees were in two different tornado. Shaken, but healthy.
We have not actually 'tuned' yet. We have dyno tuned, but that is a static application (bike not moving) - we will tune dynamically (moving) as soon as the chassis and gearing will allow for 3 consistent runs in a row. Once that happens, we will use the drag strip to quantify performance tuning theory/results. Please see this for more info: blog.brocksperformance.com/faq/how-can-brocks-get-mapping-so-close/
Found your videos randomly. Keep up the great work. Whats the best way to go with a 2018 gsxr 1000r with a full alpha t exhaust.
Glad you like. Please contact sales@brocksperformance.com for questions on products or dynoroom@brocksperformance.com about ECU Flash specifics. We are always willing to point you in the right direction.
What did you end up going?
I am glad you're only 4 hours away from where I live I will be having you work on my new bike!!
blog.brocksperformance.com/faq/do-i-need-to-physically-bring-my-bike-to-brocks-performance-in-ohio-for-a-performance-tune/
Can you explain why @5:50 we see the map numbers jump from 16 to -5 within 250RPM? I would expect to see much less variance between numbers and see a smoother transition. Fantastic series btw love your work. I have a 2010 gsxr 750 with straight pipes (no cat), M4 and a power commander 5. I bought it with a dyno tune on it with a custom map but I am not sure if it had a custom ECM tune as well (have the printout though). - just looks odd when I see the trim numbers change so drastically.
Also, can you explain how the gsxr's have a power mode switch (A/B/C setting) affects the maps/AF ratios? - I am unclear what the power mode switch actually does. (retard timing?, change AF maps?) My spider sense tells me that if you muck with the modes it is going to affect the air fuel burn which is going to throw the map out because the map is tuned for a specific config.
Large jumps in small rpm's are required to keep the AFR correct throughout the range. This is common when a precise AFR measurement, under load, is observed. This doesn't happen in the stock ecu mapping... Which is why stock ecu mapping works so poorly. If you add a wideband sensor to your pipe and go for a ride, you will see the same results, once corrected.
@@BrockDavidson Thanks Brock! I have rebuilt many car engines from full tear downs but the whole Air fuel thing was a complete mystery to me. After seeing the first video I binged the whole series like I was watching breaking bad for the first time. I am hooked. absolutely fantastic. You are a master in your craft!
Rob Skavberg g
hello master Brock, does fuel accelerator setting will change the afr ? thanks brock.
Hey Brock I have a 2019 Honda cbr1000rr sp1 . Pretty sure my speedo is running off wheel sensors and imu ect ect. I'm changing my gearing up two in the rear. Will this interfere with my electronics or throw a code? Pretty sure your gsxr is running off wheel speed sensors also and you changed your gearing.
It can. We have issues with the ZX-14R that must be solved with gearing changes, otherwise the bike develops a strage miss. I believe Guhl Motors has a flash for your 2019? Give them a call.
How about changed the Secondary injector balance map ? Would be interesting , the woolich software looks to be slightly ahead of the flash time with auto tune etc
We changed it - we would have to get out of my 'comfort zone' (40-50%) to get anywhere close.
Hey brock, you use power commander alot in your vidoes. I was curious to know what is your take on bazzaz vs power commander? Just curious to know why you wouldn't use it considering it controls more injectors. Thanks for the informal video and keep them coming!
We choose the PCV because it is designed to work hand in hand with our model 250 Dynojet dynamometer to create the fastest/most precise/smoothest maps we know how to make. I have never seen the need to tune the secondary injectors in stock engine applications, even when using highly oxygenated fuels. The Bazzaz unit works well for use with modified engines and general self-tuning when matched with their Z FI module. Unfortunately, low throttle openings are not tunable, which can be a hindrance to smooth operation on some bikes.
Hi Brock, have you tried Rapid bike fuel module? How does it compare to PCV?
They each have their own advantages. We prefer the PCV in conjunction with our model 250 dyno - for what we feel is the most precise tune possible.
Does ecu flashing and custom fuel map affect reliability in any kind of way ? Please help me out . I’m considering it thank you
If it is done correctly, it will simply derestrict and enhance the OEM tune with no harmful effects.
Brock Davidson you’re the man! 🙏 thank you
Get a base line run in the quarter mile before the LONG, LOW, and LIGHT method takes effect love the videos please let’s teach 650ib roll on races down the interstate is nothing compared to a dead stop launch we need to further our sport
Maybe you’ll make the man cup in April ??? SGMP is my home track
Hello from Panama thanks for teach all these thinks i want be your student i am learning a lot in your videos. Thanks mister brock
You are very welcome
Hi brock
I check out the hole clipsession and i realy find ist interessting. And Big thanks!! I've been reading a lot of Literatur since a wile on engine tuning,... To keep it short, is there a reason why you are tuing to 13-13,2afr because all of the Literatur that i know say, that max power on gasoline is met @ 12,8?
Thanks
@Danz - hello and glad you are enjoying the series. There are many variables to consider when tuning - AFR is only one of those variables. We find that different engines, makes, models will all typically have different values for max power. Once the bikes ability to adjust for ram air is considered, the optimum AFR for a particular engine will typically change. Check out this FAQ for more details: blog.brocksperformance.com/faq/how-can-brocks-get-mapping-so-close/
Brock, have you happened to see what the top speed on the dyno with the stock sprockets on these 17+ gixxer 1000 is by chance? I can't seem to find what the gearing limited top speed is anywhere!? I want to drop a tooth in the front and I'm trying to calculate how much top speed I could potentially lose. If any.
@Brock Davidson does this bike have a knock sensor? I went back and looked at FTECU unrestricted map and it has many small changes in the ignition timing. Im 240lb rider and I absolutely have a hard time redlining it in 6th with every mod in this series (almost) and theres many, many videos of people grabbing this bike stock and easily rev limiting this bike in 6th... easily achieving even a top speed of 301km/h 100% stock. My friend has been working on stuff for a long time and I went over a long conversation about this and he suggested because of the advanced ignition timing it could be knocking and the knock sensor limiting the engine making it hard to reach rev limit. I'm really not sure why they have advanced ignition timing in their basic unrestricted map for download... The only thing I wanted was open throttle blades and no top speed limit. That's my other question. Will it have a top speed limit of 186 if I change the stock maps manually and ecu settings myself? I don't see an option for top speed limit in the files anywhere so im not aware how they do that. I'm pretty sure the cluster is locked to 186mph also?
@william. The bike does not have a knock sensor - Per our videos, our mapping also does not include any ignition timing adjustments. FTECU should be able to help with your questions regarding changes to their maps. If you have questions about using Brock's Products, please feel free to contact me personally at bmail@brocksperformance.com
Please watch this video, if you haven't already: ruclips.net/video/aCVL15DlYGE/видео.html
Nice Brock, I’m in Cali looking to flash my ECU for a 2017 GSXr600 with a K&N, full Akrapovic exhaust. Have any flash tunes for this bike?
ON YX - sorry, we don't offer any emissions modifications to Cali customers. Your best bet would be to find a local race shop to help you out. Our dealer locator might help you: blog.brocksperformance.com/dealer-locator/
So brock is this flash your in house flash or do you send all the ecu to ghuls? Because from this video i gather you flash the ecu's yourself and have an option to add a map from the pc5 that yoive customized. There is such debate wether you need a pc5 with a flash and or auto tune. Thoughts on auto tune?
@kawi lifezx10r - If you see a BrockFLASH sticker on an ECU flash in our store, it's a Brock's Performance in-house flash. Guhl has some excellent options (such as 'User mode' error code reset feature) that other 3rd party software can't provide. When this is the case, we have worked with Guhl to create a custom flash for our application in an attempt to deliver the best flash possible to our customers.
We tune the fuel of 100% Guhl flashes with a PCV and maps created in-house here at Brock's. We do not use any on-bike auto-tuners, unless the customer has a modified engine and zero access to a dyno. Please read this on our mapping: blog.brocksperformance.com/ufaqs/how-can-brocks-get-mapping-so-close/
Ive had the ghul flash on my 14 zx10r for 2 seasons now. I havent had a dyno tune yet. My ghuls flash is only giving me 163hp with two brothers slipon & cat delete. A/f werent to bad. Figuring a dyno guy can figure out whats going on. Problem is nearest reputable dyno shop is 4 hours away. Ghul was helpful i sent it back he tweaked the ecu. Havent dynoed it since the the tweak. My butt dyno doesnt feel a difference. Thoughts?suggestions?
Product combinations and a proper tune truly matter if you are looking for the most performance possible. We produced a combination for the 2011-15 10R that worked fantastically - check it out here: blog.brocksperformance.com/kawasaki-zx-10r-11-15-information/
How much would all of this cost from stock to Brock? Parts and labor, where you're at currently on this project.
@david - our customer service team can put a package together for you. Here's an answer about labor, etc. : blog.brocksperformance.com/ufaqs/do-i-need-to-physically-bring-my-bike-to-brocks-performance-in-ohio-for-a-performance-tune/
HI Brock The FI on all Honda CBR from 2008 when started commence moving the timing forward in large increments automatically and will continue to advance untill the knock sensor detects knocking, when knocking is detected the ecu retards the timing by the last increment and then rechecks, if a knock is not detected then the timing will advance in smaller increments unit again a knock is detected. This continues untill the max timing advance is achieved and no knock is detected. This process occures each time the bike is started.
It is designed to get the best advance setting regardless of fuel used, considering this, is possible to flash a different timing map on a CBR 1000rr or flashing a Honda only involves the fueling?
@Sebastain - In the past we 'tricked' the ECU into not allowing this to exist by using a Bazzaz Z Bomb: www.bazzaz.net/index.php/z-bomb/z-bomb-cbr1000rr-08-14 - today, this can be incorporated into the ECU flash.
Brock
Does your tune or horsepower change with one of your sidewinder exhaust systems in comparison to the alien head systems
Or is all about ground clearance I’m thinking of making the swap on my race only busa to lower it some more
But use the 1k as the example for my question
That depends on your application. In a stock-for-stock (all bolt-on) application, they would make about the same power - but of course, the sidewinder can allow the bike to be lowered several more inches (As a general rule: -1" in COG (center of gravity) means @1 tenth of a second quicker in the 1/4 mile. Sidewinders can help some bikes be lower 4-5 more inches when use with a billet/lowered oil pan. Once power levels increase (above 220 RWHP or so): larger displacement, nitrous oxide etc. The sidewinder will start to pull away from the street systems in power production.
I didn’t realize you could get that much lower with the sidewinder and billet oil pan set up I guess that makes it clear then thanks for the information as always keep up the good work
Are you guys gonna make the mancup race at SGMP April 6-9 ???
@Brock..do you mind giving us an idea on what brand of software tuning ypu used for this vid..thankd
Hello, this is from the long description in the video: Dynojet Model 250I dyno using DynoWare RT, Power Core C3 and WinPEP 8 dyno control - displaying the SAE scale (unless noted otherwise in video)
@@BrockDavidson
i mean what tuner software ..ie(woolich racing and others).cos frp.what i understand you had to have a software that can read and write the ecu with different bikes ..(do we need it) to do the tuning? or the ecu itself or the can be read and rewritten by just the Dynojet software alone..Thank you for your reply..more power to you
We use Guhl's MorDefy whenever possible. We also use ftecu and WinOLS. The dynojet power vision can write to the ECU, but we don't use it for anything other than Harley's. Dynojet does not have a software that writes to the sportbike ECU's that we tune.
Hi Brock, have you flashed any 17' Ducati Panigale 1299? I was wondering if I could send the ECU to you to get it flashed.
We are working on figuring out the Bosch ECU's but we are not yet ready to flash The Ducati's - my guess is sometime in the winter or next spring.
i feel like im in a motorcycle university Lol
I am definitely going "stock to Brock!!"
do you have any pictures of a 2017 gsxr 1000r (black w/ blue rims) with your alien head exhaust? try to decide on my purchase and looks are a big thing to me... Thanks!
JD 1k - Not on the L7, but we have some nice images of the BST blue carbon fiber wheels with a ceramic black alien head installed on a black S1000RR here: facebook.com/BrocksPerformance/posts/10155629749866472
Hi Brock hope you are well. Suppose you have a Power Commander V with map selection. Suppose you create a fuel economical map and performance map. How significant would the fuel savings be for a litre bike of you were to make a leaned out low performance map?
That depends on the bike. For instance, the H2s can see a big increase 10+ mpg. Where a normally aspirationed 1000 might only pick up a couple.
@@BrockDavidson thanks for the swift response. Yamaha R1 Cross plane as a commuter (with economy tune)? Thoughts?
Whats the turnaround time on your ECU flash right now and what range can I expect to hit with after the flash. Thanks.
Depends on the bike, usually same day.
@@BrockDavidson Gen 2 Hayabusa? I didnt see the ECU flash for those on your site
@@holyghostpower938 No. we don't mess with it on a Busa. Here is what we do to make them fast: bit.ly/2ZBvVgz
HI Brock i really enjoyed the ECU Flashing video...
but i have Question what about the the motorcycle that have throttle by cable can i get more fine tune without using power commander?
67 Amri yes! We please contact dynoroom@brocksperformance.com to see if we have a flash for your bike.
thank you for your fast replying but I have checked the site and i don't think you have tune for Triumph Daytona 675 by the way i really enjoyed the content
67 Amri , we have a new site that does not have all of our flashes listed. Please contact dynoroom@brocksperformance.com for more information.
So to summarize it all up. The Flash is better, and cheaper, but the pcv is..........? Good for those who are constantly changing different set ups, for track days??? Did I understand it right??? Thanks for the info
The flash is "set and forget"... We personally prefer the derestriction flash + PCV as the fuel tuning is more precise AND fuel maps can easily be changed or adjusted - we think that's better for our needs.
I was in my local shop in Elizabethtown Ky and was talking to Lori behind the desk at Etown Powersports and she said she knew you very well, we are getting a Brock’s penta carbon full system for my 2023 GsxR 1000 and her husband Cory is gonna tune it with a power commander. Small world….I never knew they could be tuned for hp just by a power commander.
I've known Cory and Lori for years - fantastic people for sure! You are in great hands with them👍👍
Sorry, in this video you apply table(pcv5) to Fuel maps..but table pcv5 got only 10 columns(throtle positions) ECu flesh got so much more throtle positions(columns) so how they transform
Maps average between columns when viewed as a percent. If the secondary injector percentages are the same, the map import works ok. As soon as the secondary percentage changes, the import does not work well. This is why we adjust by hand in these areas.
If you had to take 1 bike Brock , Gsx-R or S1000 what would it be?
For me it's the Gsx-R.
Thanks for the awesome video's by the way .👍👍
I'm spoiled... I own both (:
Brock Davidson good answer Brock ☺
I really enjoy these videos Brock!!! Very, Very informative and you make them really interesting, and enjoyable to watch. Very good. (I said in an earlier comment, that I'd gotten an 2006 ZX-10R, Deal fell through---Worked better for me, cause now getting although a 2015 it is Brand New a ZX-10R Anniversary Edition---I Love the Kawi Green, it is the mostly Green Model{I have seen ones with Black tanks and more black, maybe they aren't anniversary Models don't know} Looking forward to a Titanium Mid Pipe and a Stupid Fast Exhaust from your company. Will need to save some first though. Got a Very Good Price on it, or would have gotten another Gixxer--had an original GSX-R750 back in the mid 1980's was my first truly fast bike, Don't mean to take away from you, not at all, Keep the great Videos coming!!! :)
Always have, and probably always will use a PC5 on top of my flash for quick adjustments at the track. Far too many tracks out there that lack a decent enough internet signal to flash the ECU successfully
Is there any difference between alien head exhaust vs short meg exhaust performance wise?
@Tracy Morris - check out this FAQ: blog.brocksperformance.com/faq/what-advantage-do-the-alien-head-brocks-have-over-the-shortmeg-pipe-any-power-difference/
Brock, do you have any knowledge of the ECU in the newer V-Strom 1000? Evidently from what I've been finding around the 'net it's a more sophisticated closed-loop system with more O2 sensors. Is this true or just people talking about stuff they don't understand? I know automotive industries use more sophisticated ECUs with more feedback controls.
@Lifted_Above I really don't know, but if the V-Strom 1000 does, it's the only Japanese motorcycle we have ever heard of with such a system. The Bosch-equipped bikes do have such a system: BMW, Ducati and other European machines.
Thanks for the reply. Without holding the ECU in my hands and reading the label, I can't say as of yet.
You gotta try E30-E85 fuel next! If the injectors can flow enough fuel that is. Cheap race gas?
One of the limitation WRT TP - old school...
Do you have to have power commander and ecu flash to get the best results ?
It depends on your applications and your definition of 'best results' - please give our customer service team a call for specifics 937-912-0054
Thanks for a such useful series. Respect! I know that you use FT and this service have much useful features. I think you know or even maybe use Whoolich racing ECU software it can accept online datalogin and autotune mode. Very interesting to hear your feedback about it.