Gary DeMar deserves a larger national platform to teach these important truthes, whereas the modern Evangelical Church is so misguided by its Pastors/Teachers.
One of the amazing things I've noticed about many pre-tribbers is that they act like the pre-trib rapture IS the Gospel. To them, their message is: "The good news for the world is that you can be saved FROM THE TRIBULATION." never mind what the true Gospel of Jesus is and the fact that it doesn't have anything to do with if or when there is going to be a rapture. I am concerned that rapture-ists are essentially presenting a different gospel... which is no gospel at all! Just my opinion.
well written David - WHEN IS THE RAPTURE / RESURRECTION? In Revelation 20:4-6 the last book of the Bible there are only 2 more FUTURE Resurrections (Raptures) spoken of: (after the 2 witnesses appear) 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST RESURRECTION. or rapture 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the SECOND DEATH hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. In the above scriptures, these are the Martyrs. John said "this is the first resurrection." John didn't say this is the "second phase of the first resurrection," as pre-tribbers claim. If this is the FIRST resurrection, can there be a resurrection before this one? Of course not, unless you want to ADD to the bible which is forbidden! The First Resurrection is of the dead in Christ and the Second is after 1000 years. Paul wrote that the Dead in Christ MUST rise FIRST, THEN we who are alive and remain will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 16 ...and the dead in Christ shall RISE FIRST 17 THEN we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them... In Rev. 20:4-5, John sees the souls of Saints who were BEHEADED for refusing the Mark of the Antichrist during the Great Tribulation. John writes that they will rise and reign with Christ for 1000 years and that this is the FIRST RESURRECTION! If according to John, the beheaded rise in the FIRST resurrection and Paul said those who are alive and remain are not caught up until AFTER the dead in Christ are resurrected, then this means the catching up or rapture takes place AFTER tribulation! Now compare the above with 1 CORINTHIANS 15:20-23: 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first-fruits of those who slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first-fruits; AFTERWARDS THOSE WHO ARE CHRIST'S AT HIS COMING. Notice only one resurrection of the dead in Christ is mentioned here! Which, according to Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 must take place BEFORE we who are alive and remain are "caught up" with them! When did Jesus say the dead in Christ would be resurrected? John 6:39-40: Jesus said, "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up ON THE LAST DAY. John 6:44: Jesus said, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up ON THE LAST DAY." Is the LAST DAY the thousand year reign of Christ? I believe so....then it is eternity and time is counted no more So if Jesus himself said the dead in Christ will be raised on the LAST DAY, and Paul said we who are alive and remain will not be caught up (raptured) until AFTER the dead are raised, then where does secret pre-trib rapture fit in? Paul in 1 Cor 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. We are changed at the LAST TRUMP and where is this found? Revelation 8:2 - And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. Revelation 8:6 - And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. In REVELATION, the LAST BOOK of the Bible there are 7 trumps and the 7th trump is the LAST ONE and is at the end of the tribulation
And to think, I once believe in the Rapture. Fear as a young boy, many times I feared that I may have missed it when people that I knew and loved, where not where I thought they should be. It often was sheer terror. Such joy when I found out the God is not counting sin against me and I have not missed Him. Sin, forgiven, past present and future because of the cross.
I think claiming Jesus will return and the many times people have gave a date, just for it not to happen over and over again, leads people from christ.
Dispensational doctrine has hampered the Church and done untold damage in individual believer's lives as it is demoralizing to think that things are fated to become worse.
Keith Stewart, what if it’s true that the world is going to hell in a hand-basket, but God has prepared an escape for the ones who believe that Jesus went to prepare a place in his Father’s house for those who are called and chosen and faithful, so that they may be with him where he was going? Jesus also warned the first church generation of a terrible (but smaller) cataclysm that unfolded when the Romans invaded and destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple, fulfilling Dan 9:26b. It was depressing news, but it was vital that everyone knew, and those who believed and prepared were spared.
Keith Stewart: If truth is demoralizing to you, you can always just put your Bible away and join the damned, and save your feeling demoralized for later, when it will be an exponentially greater demoralization and will last for a much longer time. God always warns people and gives them a chance. It’s their choice to listen or not.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 yes, that is what those prophecies were about. Read the first verse of the Revelation...also 22:10, and there are several other time references, all of them stressing that these were things that were to take place soon...at hand...to the people to whom the letter was actually addressed. It was in their future not ours. The Bible is written for is but it wasn't written to us, it had to have meaning to the people to whom it was addressed.
@@misskim2058 Dispensational Theology departs from the truth in my opinion. Look into it, it derives from visions of a girl in the early 19th century. None of the Church Fathers held to an escatology like the one most common in America today.
@@keithstewart934, the Greek word _tachos_ in Rev 1:1 means “quickly” which could mean before much time passes, or in a short space of time once it starts. Claims that this verse means that Jesus was revealing things that came to pass not long after the vision was given are falsified by the fact that he revealed things that span over a thousand years. So the only way to arrive at any sort of Preterist interpretation of Revelation would be to ignore the millennium but also to allegorize away most of the details because most of the things he described have yet to happen. There are other examples where _tachos_ is used in this way. For example, the lesson of the parable of the persistent widow is that God will bear long with people who cry to him for help AND he will avenge them speedily (en tachos). That’s a perfect example because Jesus literally describes waiting a long time for something that’s going to happen suddenly when it does happen. “And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8 So Rev 1:1 means that Jesus Christ was going to show things which must happen “with haste” (en tachos), and I think John received the visions during the First Jewish War in late 69 AD which would not have been long before Dan 9:26 was fulfilled because the Four Horsemen describe God’s judgement of Israel with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple.
I'm so confused with all this eschatology! Pastors who have gone thru seminary seem to have the end time prophecies all wrong! So lay out for me what is coming? Second coming? end of the world? Will Israel get nuked? Please help me understand all this! How can so many get this wrong? I think you are right on the mark Mr. Gary Demar. Thanks for your ministry.
Basically we need to live as if the world will be here for another 20,000 years, and we christians need to get to work spreading the ACTUAL Gospel everywhere.
Our own individual 'rapture' will occur within the next 80 years for most of us. That is the day we leave this earth and enter the permanent life. What is the use of looking for deliverance when life is already rather short ?
They use it as an excuse to justify laziness and cowardice. They want to control every other aspect of their lives, but say "I just trust Jesus" when it cones to the more difficult tasks. Once I realized this, I became VERY angry at church leaders and professing christians. They're liars.
There is but one central church and that is the body of Christ. Those who fellowship together in unity may abound all over the world, yet are still apart of the one body of Christ, provided that they all are speaking and living the same principle doctrine as recorded in the scriptures. Whether or not the seven churches in revelation were written to that particular time period can be debatable, but we as true individual believers know assuredly that the word of God is not about debate, but rather ministering wholesome words that the hearer may come to understanding. Also the doctrine of the rapture did not come into view until in the early 1800's by a man named John Nelson Darby, prior to that there was no such teachings about a rapture as it is so unscriptural explain today. Yes there will be a gathering of God's people immediately after tribulation. Matthew 24:29-31.
Gary, once again, hits the nail on the head! NOTHING in the book of Revelation speaks of seven church ages! Revelation was written before AD 70 About things that would soon come to pass affecting seven first century churches.😊
Well of course there will be a rapture (parousia). The question is this: What does Paul mean by the word? Most Greek definitions will translate the word as "arrival" or "coming". There is no hint from the text that the Church will be taken anywhere.
Faulty logic. If you show 10 children basic instructions with a guideline clear to see, but 8 of them add or take away from those instructions and follow their own interpretation of the facts instead of the guideline presented, you don't blame the guideline or the author of it because those following don't understand or want to understand. Some may be confused, but some may not truly be followers. This is the case with denominations; some are false, some are confused, but God is still true.
I'm sorry; I find many theological problems with this view based on what the Bible says. 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, 5:1-11 talks about the rapture (or being caught up). The church is the Bride of Christ, so I can't understand the groom pouring out His wrath on His bride through the book of Revelation. Persecution happens to believers, but it's from those that hate Christ and Christians (John 15:18-20, 1John 3:13) not the Lord. Too little space, but I disagree.
OMG BROTHER ERIC YOU ARE 100% RIGHT THE BIBLE PLAINLY SAYS I WILL KEEP YOU FROM NOT THROUGH THESE TRIBULATION TIMES THAT ARE COMING. WHAT KIND OF GOD WOULD ALLOW HIS BRIDE TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH THESE TIMES. IF HE CAN NOT SEE THAT: HE DON'T KNOW THE JESUS THAT I KNOW. I LOVE JACK, BUT I DON'T HAVE TO AGREE WITH EVER DENOMINATIONAL DIFFERENT WE MAY DIFFER ON. . WHY WOULD GOD SAVE ME IF I WAS NO BETTER OFF THAN A SINNER. MY TEACHER IS THE HOLY GHOST. I AM SEALED IN THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST UNTIL THE TIME OF REDEMPTION. AND THAT REDEMPTION IS THE RAPTURE OR BY THE WAY OF THE GRAVE. I LEAVE THAT UP TO JESUS. GOD BLESS TRUMP MAGA LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC AND FOR ALL YOU GRUNTS (MARIN) SIMPER FI JUST A THOUGHT. GOD BLESS.
I used to believe this stuff that JM traches. I asked the Lord for the truth and at first it was hard to swallow because of all the years of false doctrine i have studied for years. But now i look back and cringe at how ignorant i was. It's about the culture cultur culture. Thank you Gary.
It’s just crazy the stuff they will come up with, trying to get around the facts of what is actually said!! And those letters were to 7 actual churches back then.. 2000 YEARS AGO!! It is not referring to us today! This whole view is just ridiculous!!
SpecialK 77, in Rev 3:10, Jesus promised the church in Philadelphia to keep them out of the time of testing that’s coming on the whole inhabited world to try everyone dwelling on the earth. That time is defined by prophesies across the Bible as the great tribulation, but the details they describe never happened. Either God’s prophetic warnings and promises about these events bear no resemblance to reality, or the prophesies are still in our future. And no one has explained the use of dire warnings that bear no resemblance to reality.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 "dire warnings that bear no resemblance to reality" will call you : 1) to ask yourself the question of audience relevance 2) seek for the context in history of the authors and contemporaries of the Scriptures For you to be able to conclude that it's about your future. If you didn't exist today will it change the validity of the Holy Scriptures????
@@rogerzendong1284, if you believe that Dan 9:27 was fulfilled in the first century, please explain who was the “he” that confirmed a covenant, who were the “many,” when did the sacrifices cease, and what was the abomination that “he” setup? “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.” Dan 9:27
@@biblehistoryscience3530 Please give me an example of a count where you see a gap. This is just man made doctrines without any logic. When you add a gap what does that represent? I can't count 6 days and then say 1 car then 7 day. God said 70 weeks isn't that clear. You yourself said that Jesus promised the church of Philadelphia : did He promised to you ? Or us 2000 years later. SIMPLY NO.
Part 2: While this subject definitely takes more study, and I am always willing to study it because I love and want to honor God; I can't just accept anything because a few verses are pulled together. I've listened to so many views and asked honest questions about those views and get some answers that dishonor scripture and the nature of Jesus Christ and His bride, the church. If I'm wrong, God will reveal it, but sometimes I feel opposing sides care more about being right than God being right
Don't worry, we don't have to have everything nailed down...God is great...it is His grace that saves. The plain things are the main things and childlike faith is precious in His sight.
Really?? 1thess 4:17 Paul mentioned the words caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Are we to disregard this verses from Paul? This is totally separate from the 2nd bodily coming of Christ on earth.
@@joeyrollo3053 Was Adam supposed to fulfill the purpose of creation, through obeying God, on earth or in the sky? Did Jesus encourage anyone to place their attention for the salvation of their spirit in the sky? No. Rather he revealed that the Kingdom of God, and His will, should be done on earth. What is the original purpose of creation? Surely it is attached to the words of God, "of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." We can only speculate what the world would have looked like if Adam and Eve obeyed God. Perhaps it would have been the ideal world of perfect love between man and God, and man and man. What we can be sure of is that God does not speak idle words, or speak casually to people whose souls are in peril. Therefore we conclude God expected obedience, and was preparing for victory, and the family of God should proceed from His instruction, through fulfilling their portion of meaningful, consequential responsibility. This would be the ideal circumstance. The Spirit grows in the soil of the physical body. Through God's word, we gain dominion over our body which carries the fallen nature, and become people who are fruitful, who expand a Godly lineage, and who can demonstrate true dominion over creation. This is the restoration of the original purpose of creation, through the ministry of Jesus. When a person who loves God dies, He graduates into the realm of eternity, which is a substantial realm. God seeks a Godly seed, as we learn through Malachi. Satanic accusation is not a condition a Godly seed perpetuates. Adam was born without original sin, as was the Last Adam, Jesus, which is to say, they both were the Lords of a godly seed. If Adam did not fall, his descendants would have had good ancestors, and God would have had a Godly seed, in a corporeal and incorporeal universe where satan had no power over perfected man, and perfected man's offspring. To accomplish this, Adam was the lynchpin. Jesus had the fruits of the Spirit and operated in the gifts of the Spirit. Since Jesus was the Last Adam, does this mean Adam could have possessed these capabilities? I don't see why not. After all, doesn't being the Lord of Creation, made in God's image and likeness include dominion over the incorporeal realm as well as this physical world? God gave these gifts to fallen, albeit redeemed men. Wherefore thus saith YAHOVAH God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly. ruclips.net/video/J3oI0DMtHi4/видео.html
@@lakevacm i just quoted what paul has said. It is a written word of God. I dd not interpret it myself. I believe in the new heaven and new earth. We are now living in a fallen world bec. of adam sin. Obviously this earth also is part of redemptive plan of God. Believing on meeting God in the air doesnt negate the fact that all the redeemed will live here on the new earth in the future time.
@@joeyrollo3053 There is only one "second coming" of Christ. Logically, if there is going to be a "rapture" before a seven year tribulation, then the "rapture" is the "second coming" of Christ and that would make the "second coming" of Christ at the end of the seven year tribulation the "third coming" of Christ! Dispensationalism is totally illogical!
@@drtruthseeker8400 I just wanted to know why you used that Revelation verse? Did you use it to to say that "churches" is implied for the Church of Christ (We, the body of Christ) or did you use it to emphasise that the Lord was speaking specifically to the 7 Churches? Thanks.
@@jesusmarywillsaveyou Churches means every Church that knows Christ.....I used it because the false teachers using Pre-trib say that the Church is not mentioned past Rev ch4, so that means the Church is not here during the Tribulation, However, Jesus Clearly said in the Ch 22, Rev was to all the "Churches"
There is an overall general question that ALL believers must answer before squabbling over labeling one another’s doctrines assigned by scholarly men. Who was the Bible written FOR? Next…. Do you believe that God’s Holy Word was left for our example? Then… Understand the TRUTH of God’s Holy Word is timeless and profitable for all who have faith in Jesus Christ and believe in God almighty. The Bible is your instructions on how to endure til the end and you are in the Garden with the rest of the saints from Genesis to Revelation. The characteristics of the seven churches may be found in many churches that have existed throughout the ages corporately and as individual members across all denominations that claim faith in Christ. Spend some time and read the letters and let’s all correct those things Christ warns us all about. God bless us all in our efforts to endure.
So is revelation even about an end times?Do we have any reason to believe in the "last days" at all? Or was revelation just about a time period after Jesus a long time ago?
I answered that in my last post; take some time and read it carefully. Some are not followers, some are still growing, and some follow Christ to their deaths. Your complaints about God are expected; the Bible says so. Again, if you don't want to believe and live the life you want, then do so. I pray God will open your eyes to the folly of being a slave to sin and show you his majesty, wonder, and unending love. He holds your breath and offers you salvation; I pray you trust Him one day.
It will all pan out in the end. To each his own to believe what they want. I believe that God is not going to have us going through what the non saints will go through. Will will all find out what is true and not when the time comes.
2 Thessalonians 2 lays out the pre Trib rapture. It is either noticed or it is not. It doesn't help that the early English Bibles have "departing" while the world at large is stuck on "falling away". So in verse 3. The departing comes first. This will cause a global panic. Someone will have to step up and take control and well, we know the rest.
The Bible talks of a first resurrection where the angels gather the saints . Matt 24:31. But this rapture concept don't make a lot of sense to me.....People disappearing out of cars and planes etc ...( .and no signs of angels ? )......Might make for interesting movies BUT please, don't treat us like children.
Bass Point Live, the “first” of two resurrections mentioned in Rev 20:5 is stated to be for saints killed during the great tribulation. And church saints had to have been raptured before the great tribulation started because the glorified bride is seen at the marriage and marriage supper of the Lamb that Rev 19 shows are held behind closed gates in Heaven during the great tribulation. And the rapture cannot possibly happen between the second coming and Millennium because there would not be anyone left in natural bodies to repopulate earth during the Millennium because the only people to survive the great tribulation will be saints, according to Rev 13:8, 14 and 19.
@ Bass Point Live "Don't treat us like children" Such stuff is very symptomatic of those apathetic feminised emotional societies we live in , that is Europe and North America. Today's Christians are more into watching silly fictional movies posing as christian than searching the TRUTH in Scriptures
The rapture is after the great tribulation. The tribulation ended in the 1st century. The rapture happens right at the final judgment when the heaven and earth are destroyed in the fire of Revelation 20. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15, that the last trumpet would see the abolishment of death. The same thing happens in the Great White Throne judgment of Revelation 20 when death is thrown into the lake of fire. Also in 1 Corinthians 15, we see the dead in Christ are raised and those alive are transformed into immortality. Clearly that has not happened in 70AD. It will happen in the future. That is when the heaven and earth are destroyed by fire and the new heaven and earth come where there will be no more death.
Amen Dr.Demar I am with you all the way you are rightfully dividing the word of Truth. I would like to know when you and John McArthur have a debate it will be very interesting Amen 🙏!
It baffles me that people say him & others alike are heretical when they use scripture to interpret scripture, the correct exegetical eschatology but something taught such as a pretrib rapture not in scripture is not heretical, seems to me that reading something into the bible should be more a problem but is prob just eisegesis unfortunately. Learning it just makes more sense keeping our hearts set on The King of Kings & The Lord of Lords Jesus Christ
I will try to be as respectful as I can as I answer you for the final time (in this and other posts you wrote). I am not obligated to give you anything; you made a comment on my post and I answered you. I don't have to jump through hoops to give you what I already gave you. You seem to want to debate for the sake of debating and this isn't a game to me; this is life or death. You ask for evidence but aren't specific, this way you can discard anything given. That is you choice; so ok.
Isaiah 9:7...God’s government is increasing everywhere but not in the hearts & minds brainwashed in dispensation doctrine. Their ‘escapism’ is unbiblical for how is God’s glory to fill the earth by taking us off the earth. It is Christ IN us the hope of glory...Jesus said in John 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them OUT OF THE WORLD but that you protect them from the evil one. Why would Jesus make that statement & then do otherwise?
jcismyall, Jesus said in Jn. 17:6-19 that he did not pray this for the world but those whom the Father gave him, that the Father not take them out of this world, and it necessary for them to hear this because he’d just promised (Jn.14) to go and prepare a place for them in his Father’s house and return to take them there. And the reason for leaving them behind was obviously because he was in the process of tasking them with establishing churches and writing the New Testament. So this was a prayer that just they not be raptured in life, but he would take them out of this world after death. To apply Jesus’ prayer to everyone in the church is to quote-mine and take it out of context.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 That escapist mentality is symptomatic of our apathetic emasculated countries (the West) who don't have the courage to keep up the good fight and endure hardships and think that God is so loving that he cannot "beat" his wife lol
This argument was actually what made me convinced that premillenialism was wrong. As a very young man I was reading Hal Lindsy's commentary on Revelation THERE'S A NEW WORLD COMING. Hal made this argument. He also made a bit deal out of John being told to "come up hither." He said that proved the rapture to him. I closed the book in disbelief. Tim Lahaye also likes to point out that he thinks The Reformation is the Church of Laodicea because of John's negative words. Lahaye is an Arminian:)
And I agree with your opinion. Just like GOD said in Ezekiel 13:17-23 ... they are deceiving the souls that should not die and teaching a false salvation to those who GOD already knows will not make it. They are "pregnant" and giving "suck" of such lie... Luke 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. They are no longer virgins.. 2Corinthians 11:2-4.
You want John to give an answer to that? He can't. That was simply air tight. Well done Gary. One more thing, even if it was "The Church" as they state, there still isn't anything there.
Nathan, if you believe that the verse in1Thessalonians doesn't mean caught up, then that is your choice. I could comment about your assertions, but what good would it do? You would reply with your view, then I would reply back. I am not the Holy Spirit and neither are you. If you feel you have strong Biblical evidence, share it and let the Holy Spirit convict. The fact that so many want to argue the point when it's not a salvation issue seems counterproductive. And remember....
I am a pretrib dispensationalist, but never would divide from a true brother over eschatology. It is very important but it is not the gospel. Gary's points are biased towards his views just like the rest of us. Of course it mentions the seven specific churches, the letter was written to them but for all of us in Christ, that's just basic. To believe that all biblical prophecy has already been fulfilled defies reality. As I've listened to other programs by those in agreement with Gary, apparently the flaming return of Jesus in judgment already happened in AD 70, and had to be corroborated by an unbeliever, the historian Josephus.
Part 1- I feel you bro! When I reconciled with Christ in 2002 I started studying it and was just flabbergasted by all the views on Eschatology. I can assure you American Vision will lead you in the right direction. Man I thank God for Gary Demar. As a former Dispensationalist myself, I heard Gary on the bible answer man and thought Gary was off his rocker. I purchased his book "Last Days Madness" because I was curious to read his heretical (at least that is what I thought at the time) message.
Revelation Chapter 4 begins with the John in heaven witnessing the 24 elders in resurrected bodies in white robes. If the preterist asserts that the book of reveleation was fufilled in AD 70 how did the 24 elders get there resurrected bodies.
Part 2...a true believer will be kept and led by the Holy Spirit until the day we receive our transformed body. If anyone is wrong in their view, the Holy Spirit will reveal it, so I am not so concerned. If I am wrong and I have to go through the tribulation, I can accept that because it is God who keeps me. Now, can you accept that you could be raptured out of wrath? I can accept God's will either way, but can you? If you can, then it's ok, if not, it may be a sign of a deeper issue.
The theology of a post tribulation rapture is also IMPLICIT. Not Explicit. Nowhere in the bible is the exact timing stated, but there are verses however that seem to indicate what that timing is, depending of course on how you read the bible.
Even if your view was correct these churches where promised by God they would escape judgment(trial) so if God promised them why would He not promise us who have similar traits as them.
according to him then the bible isnt for anyone in this time and period? or does he not realize this? the seven churches are the seven assemblies that are seven heart conditions of the pple.
These are still tribulation verses for those going through that time; and Jesus' explanation of it still pertains to the Jews primarily. Jesus answered the disciples about the end of the world and the sign of His coming, but the church age was still a mystery revealed to the Apostle Paul. There are many confusing scriptures concerning the rapture and the second coming, but if some views bring more questions and a reinterpretation of scripture, I tend not to trust it because God isn't chaotic.
@11914386 Why can't Christians discuss differences? I don't think this dude is attacking anyone; quite to the contrary, he is respectfully trying to bring clarity to an issue that causes the world to mock the church. Christians have been thinking they are going to be raptured ever since Darby started his dispensational thing. Whats the matter with living and dying and going to heaven? Sounds pretty cool to me.
@TheCannonofMohammed If you read his articles you would see that DeMar is not as diplomatic as he his with a video that will be seen by the public. And just because someone like Darby believed in the Rapture does not mean it is not correct. Using that line of logic, we could say that when the Reformation declared we were saved by Grace alone, by Faith alone and by Christ alone is incorrect since the Church had not been teaching it for hundreds of years. Cont~
Ok so what does all this have to do with your title, cause your title implies there is no rapture at all, but your speech seems to be trying to disprove a pre-trib rapture??
Nathan, no offense, but I don't want to debate this with you; unless you have Biblical evidence that my disagreement on this view means I'm not saved and I'm going to hell. If so, then please share that with me because I don't want to displease God, but if it doesn't; we can respectfully disagree. If you feel the way you do, be satisfied with that if I don't agree. In the same way, it is not my job to convince you either. It would take up too much space and time to defend this biblically.
There are many, many, many, things to be concerned about other than predicting whether the harpazo well be pre, mid, or post tribulation...in fact it does not matter no man can change when it occurs... it well be when it is...no divination required...watch and pray my Brethren ..i will say this though there is much biblical evidence that the believer will not suffer the 3.5 year tribulation much has recently been revealed
I take huge issue that there is supposedly a period of time that if you get saved before that time you will get pulled off the earth and the rest may or may not get saved but will still have to go through tribulation. Some people will read anything into the text in order to believe they will avoid persecution. There are some even teaching that the verse in Revelation that says "come up hither" (Rev 4:1) means that is the moment of the rapture of the church. Speaking of implicit and explicit, these words explicitly were given to John, for John and about John in his vision (Am I too simple???). Also, why would God merely imply here and there in His Word about a pre-trib rapture? Wouldn't He want us to know without a doubt? Or take that the Bible says we are not under His wrath as proof of pre-trib rapture. If so, then why do Christians experience persecution, death and hell on earth in Muslim countries? Should we take that to mean that persecution and tribulation is God's wrath? That doesn't make sense. Maybe much of the last days are the natural consequences of a fallen world that has refused to acknowledge God (there is obviously a point that God's wrath is poured out and the text says it is specifically poured out on those who have the mark of the beast). There are too many holes in these popular theories. I grew up thinking what the majority of Christians believe, but have too many questions to know what to believe.
Since science is always proving itself wrong, it is also fictitious according to your statement. So, why replace one fiction with another? That's illogical. Why not avoid both fictions?
Part II- And thank THE LORD I read that book! Gary leaves no stone un-turned. He covers it all. I immediately dropped the dispensational view. We will never know all the answers, but to me Partial Preterism makes the most sense comparing scripture with scripture.
That's right. Trying to teach intelligence to self-appointed intellectuals is pointless -they don't get it. Claiming you love humor is not the same thing as proving it.
Problem number one. The word "Church" never occurs anywhere in scripture. Nor does the word we're getting Church from (Ekklesia) mean anything even close to what is looked at as the "Church". We need to get real here and start studying the text as it was given, in context, from a historical, Grammatical and cultural perspective or we will continue to debate the Scriptures from a erroneous aspect. With that said though, I do appreciate your talking about and asking the tough questions.
I agree that JMAC is solid on a lot of his teaching, but when it comes to some areas he changes his Hermeneutic. Eschatology and Baptism are two examples of his blindness and prejudice. Thank God for JMAC and his general Faithfulness, but he is certainly wrong about the two aspects of Theology mentioned above.
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ? (Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30) The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations? 1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8) 2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ? 3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds? 4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh? 5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers? 6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"? 7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost? 8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.) 9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? 10. Watch the RUclips video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church. Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology. Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.” Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107. Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.” Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323. John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated… "...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.” John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.) What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16? Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth? Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups? Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13? Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
You're more concerned with being right and preterists being wrong. You should put this effort into teaching Genesis and the Gospels. Why Genesis? Well, how can you save people that don't even know they're lost? I think it's a mistake to focus only on the Gospels. Peter, when preaching to the gentiles had to go back to genesis for them to understand the Gospels. How can anyone appreciate Jesus' sacrifice for our redemption, if they don't know about the fall of Adam?
The mark of the beast denotes buying and selling only if one posses the mark according to revelation 13. In this time period of revelation gold and silver is thrown out in the streets because it is not worth anything. This has never happened in history. Another blow to preterism.
acctualy there is some old writing shown if you burned incence to the ceasar you would receive a slip like our money to be able to buy . go research your self and another man made images speak as well . again do research on your own
samantha, that doesn’t confine the ability to buy or sell to that one particular method, nor does it have anything to do with gold and silver becoming worthless. It hasn’t ever happened, as dan said.
@@misskim2058 First of all, how could you claim that it's never happened? It's probably happened every time a city is laid under siege and circumvilation, when the inhabitants starve, and money becomes totally worthless. Second of all, it DID happen, as the passage stating that(they throw their gold and silver into the streets) is from Ezekiel 7, which is describing the siege of Jerusalem by the Babylonians in Ezekiel's day, and the misery of the inhabitants. God takes him there to witness it. Much of the imagery from Revelation is taken directly from Ezekiel, including the "mark." In Ezekiel, a man with ink and quill marks a cross on the forehead of all those in Jerusalem who weep for the abominations committed by their brethren, and they are spared the judgement, just like in Revelation the ones with the mark of God are saved. So yes, people threw silver and gold into the streets as it became worthless wayyy back in the 6th century bc in Jerusalem. The Bible says so, and the same things happened in 70ad, but much worse, and on a much larger scale.
Good points on Rev 3 and the church references, I agree. Throwing out questions is the easy part. Defining what the scriptures truly mean is another matter all together, and then the Preterist view becomes very questionable. In mho.
It is obvious that you do not understand the purpose of the scriptures, is for the edification of the body of Christ throughout the Church age. Your choice in semantic over Church or Churches is at best immature. It doesn't matter about the time period of the Rev. 1-3 churches or for that matter any other churches mention in scripture because their inclusion is for the edification of the believer past, present and future the physicality of the churches location is of secondary importance.
Truth you say? So you know what truth is. I'd love to hear you define it. The greatest philosophers that ever lived struggled with that, but you've got it figured out. That's rich! Especially when you make exclusive claims like "there is no evidence that supports any of the claims made in the Bible." That's plain ignorant. The Bible mentions Rome. Are you saying just because the Bible mentions it, there's no evidence for it? I could go on.
You have no point. So, how could anyone possibly miss it? Since you value intelligence so highly, you might want to go back to school and take some grammar classes. It would help you deliver your thoughts accurately and more concisely.
Also about 1/3 of the Bible is prophetic so that means it is important to God and we should study it. Prophecy is given as proof that the word of God is real and no other holy book has a 100% batting average like the Bible. DeMar just parrots what others teach. He has nothing original in his teaching.
"SAINTS" ARE ANGELS THAT JESUS RETURNS WITH, BECAUSE THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST, THEN WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN ( AFTER THE TRIB) WILL MEET ALL OF THEM :-)
@@jrosana03 I am leaning towards Postmillenialism or at least Optimistic Amillenialism! Habbakuck 2:14 "For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD as the waters cover the sea."
If I had them all memorized, I could present about 10 different bible facts that would show how incorrect his post rapture theorie is. The PreTrib R is seen especially when you use the correct meaning of some of the Greek words & grammar in the verses he uses which are not interpreted correctly.
take a look at rev 3v10 since you have kept my command to endure patiently I will also keep you....what does he mean by keep you....from the hour of trial...what is this referring to...the tribulation...that is going that is going to come upon the whole world....tribulation this revered happened it 70 ad...this states the hour of what coming not on the Roman Empire but the whole world. not parts of it but the whole world. to test ...test why and for...to test those who live on the earth....
The passage says "which shall come upon all the οἰκουμένη" (oikouménē- The inhabited Earth), i.e. The Roman world. This word is also used in Luke 2:1 "...a Decree went out by Caesar Augustus that the whole world be taxed(οἰκουμένη)." And also in Rev 3:10 "to try them which dwell upon the Earth(γῆ - "Ghey," meaning "the land," as opposed to the sky, or the sea).
Now you're changing your statement. First you said the Bible was entirely false. Now you say it has some truth. And, you claim to value the truth. That's a joke.
Actually the truth made me an atheist, because there is no evidence that supports any of the claims made in the bible. No Adam and Eve. Genesis is a complete myth just like the Exodus. No proof of Moses, Abraham, Noah, etc. No great flood. Jesus' alleged story in every Gospel contradicts itself over and over......etc.,etc. Jesus is a myth which Christianity plagiarized stories from various other religions such as Hinduism, Mithra, and others into their cult which Constantine gave legitimacy to.
You missed my point. Way over your head. You not being smart enough to teach it has nothing to do with an intelligent person being able to learn something. Ad hominem. Self appointed? Wish I was. Unlike most people, I accept evidence towards the contrary, regardless of personal beliefs or wishful thinking.
Jesus referring is referring in Luke 33...34...35 the escape...to Isaiah the prophet there is a verse referring about god.s chamber whom God is speaking telling his people to come up to his chambers[heaven] and to covered for a little while from his wrath that is coming upon the face the earth...this is the rapture...they are to be hidden in his chambers.
Part 2; And I've actually been in many conversations with people that hold differing views and guess what, rarely does anything I say sway them, even if I read certain verses that question the view. What would be the point of arguing; I just respectfully posted what the Bible says and if that caused any sort of stir, I apologize. I feel the Bible says we're not appointed to wrath; Christians disagree with when that wrath is and what constitutes wrath, but again, unless it's a salvation issue..
I agree that your endeavor to teach intelligence would be a waste. You can't teach it if you don't understand the concept. Btw, I love humor. Carlin, Penn & Teller, Jeffries, Franken, Germaine, etc. Even Larry the Cable Guy.
You point the finger at these teachers are dishonest yet you are being dishonest. You have provided no scriptures to show that the Church as a corporate body of believers will be in the tribulation, where in the bible is the trinity, where is the millennium in the bible but we all use it. You miss the point that even though those churches in rev. Had physical locations they were promise if the get their act together like the Philadelphia church they would escape the trail coming upon the world.
Who says I was attempting intelligence? Any such endeavor would be wasted on you. As for humor, people like you take your selves far too seriously to bother with humor.
dan hoerle much of scripture is allegorical. Look at the parables for example. Also, look at the apocalyptic language used throughout The Bible, especially in Isaiah and Revelation. In Revelation Christ is depicted as a lamb. Is he a literal lamb or is that allegory?
Believers will be resurrected and meet Jesus at the second coming The gospel is the gospel of the kingdom! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah died for his people! God resurrected the Messiah! The Messiah will resurrect his people at his coming! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Matt 24 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
Jack Van Impe is a man of God. He has dedicated his life to Jesus Christ knows and can recite most of the Bible heart. Can you do that Sir. I guess not yet you choose to openly critise him. Shame on you. You are right when you say many people don't agree with you. You have no integrity and bad mouth him. You are a disgraceful man, and I would not even call you a Christian, because if you are a man of God you should build people up and not bad mouth them. SHAME ON YOU
Norma Moore So pointing out unscriptural teaching of a person is bad mouthing ? Then I guess Jesus bad mouthed the Pharisees & wasn’t a Christian... besides Mr DeMar was speaking of the teaching of John MacArthur not Jack Van Impe. But I take issue with people who teach unbiblical stuff too & yes, Mr Van Impe has been known for his MANY failed date setting predictions. Doesn’t mean I don’t pray for him but I avoid those who falsely prophesy in the manner Van Impe does b/c it is a misrepresentation of Christ & leads people astray with gloom/doom doctrine.
@ Norma Moore Has Mac Arthur become an idol ? You see , when he teaches (off topic) in marriage the WILFUL submission of the wife , can't you see how he adds things to the text ? What if the wife does not want to submit ? Well , it's ok , she has free will . Such teaching is dangerous , misleading and just condones wifely rebellion. You will wonder then why there are so many divorces among Christians who fawn over Great Pastor X or Great Pastor Z . So , if he is bad on marriage , why wouldn't he be bad on eschatology too ?
Why am I just now discovering this guy? He makes more sense then anyone one else I’ve listened to.
He also has some great books
I just found him too.
Grow up
The world suppresses Truth at all costs and at every level.
Me too
My homeschool now uses his curriculum
Gary DeMar deserves a larger national platform to teach these important truthes, whereas the modern Evangelical Church is so misguided by its Pastors/Teachers.
I totally agree. Johnny Mac is Awesome!! - However, I totally disagree with his eschatological interpretations.
@ John O'Donnell
If he misleads his flock that bad , he is not that awesome.
After financially supporting MacArthur since 1986, I have now withdrawn all support. ✔️
One of the amazing things I've noticed about many pre-tribbers is that they act like the pre-trib rapture IS the Gospel. To them, their message is: "The good news for the world is that you can be saved FROM THE TRIBULATION." never mind what the true Gospel of Jesus is and the fact that it doesn't have anything to do with if or when there is going to be a rapture. I am concerned that rapture-ists are essentially presenting a different gospel... which is no gospel at all! Just my opinion.
well written David - WHEN IS THE RAPTURE / RESURRECTION?
In Revelation 20:4-6 the last book of the Bible there are only 2 more FUTURE Resurrections (Raptures) spoken of: (after the 2 witnesses appear)
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST RESURRECTION. or rapture
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the SECOND DEATH hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
In the above scriptures, these are the Martyrs. John said "this is the first resurrection." John didn't say this is the "second phase of the first resurrection," as pre-tribbers claim.
If this is the FIRST resurrection, can there be a resurrection before this one? Of course not, unless you want to ADD to the bible which is forbidden!
The First Resurrection is of the dead in Christ and the Second is after 1000 years. Paul wrote that the Dead in Christ MUST rise FIRST, THEN we who are alive and remain will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 ...and the dead in Christ shall RISE FIRST
17 THEN we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them...
In Rev. 20:4-5, John sees the souls of Saints who were BEHEADED for refusing the Mark of the Antichrist during the Great Tribulation. John writes that they will rise and reign with Christ for 1000 years and that this is the FIRST RESURRECTION!
If according to John, the beheaded rise in the FIRST resurrection and Paul said those who are alive and remain are not caught up until AFTER the dead in Christ are resurrected, then this means the catching up or rapture takes place AFTER tribulation!
Now compare the above with 1 CORINTHIANS 15:20-23:
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first-fruits of those who slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first-fruits; AFTERWARDS THOSE WHO ARE CHRIST'S AT HIS COMING.
Notice only one resurrection of the dead in Christ is mentioned here! Which, according to Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 must take place BEFORE we who are alive and remain are "caught up" with them!
When did Jesus say the dead in Christ would be resurrected?
John 6:39-40: Jesus said, "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up ON THE LAST DAY.
John 6:44: Jesus said, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up ON THE LAST DAY."
Is the LAST DAY the thousand year reign of Christ?
I believe so....then it is eternity and time is counted no more
So if Jesus himself said the dead in Christ will be raised on the LAST DAY, and Paul said we who are alive and remain will not be caught up (raptured) until AFTER the dead are raised, then where does secret pre-trib rapture fit in?
Paul in 1 Cor 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
We are changed at the LAST TRUMP and where is this found?
Revelation 8:2 - And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
Revelation 8:6 - And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
In REVELATION, the LAST BOOK of the Bible there are 7 trumps and the 7th trump is the LAST ONE and is at the end of the tribulation
And to think, I once believe in the Rapture. Fear as a young boy, many times I feared that I may have missed it when people that I knew and loved, where not where I thought they should be. It often was sheer terror. Such joy when I found out the God is not counting sin against me and I have not missed Him. Sin, forgiven, past present and future because of the cross.
Lies are always promoted while the Truth is constantly suppressed
I think claiming Jesus will return and the many times people have gave a date, just for it not to happen over and over again, leads people from christ.
Dispensational doctrine has hampered the Church and done untold damage in individual believer's lives as it is demoralizing to think that things are fated to become worse.
Keith Stewart, what if it’s true that the world is going to hell in a hand-basket, but God has prepared an escape for the ones who believe that Jesus went to prepare a place in his Father’s house for those who are called and chosen and faithful, so that they may be with him where he was going?
Jesus also warned the first church generation of a terrible (but smaller) cataclysm that unfolded when the Romans invaded and destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple, fulfilling Dan 9:26b. It was depressing news, but it was vital that everyone knew, and those who believed and prepared were spared.
Keith Stewart: If truth is demoralizing to you, you can always just put your Bible away and join the damned, and save your feeling demoralized for later, when it will be an exponentially greater demoralization and will last for a much longer time. God always warns people and gives them a chance. It’s their choice to listen or not.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 yes, that is what those prophecies were about. Read the first verse of the Revelation...also 22:10, and there are several other time references, all of them stressing that these were things that were to take place soon...at hand...to the people to whom the letter was actually addressed. It was in their future not ours. The Bible is written for is but it wasn't written to us, it had to have meaning to the people to whom it was addressed.
@@misskim2058 Dispensational Theology departs from the truth in my opinion. Look into it, it derives from visions of a girl in the early 19th century. None of the Church Fathers held to an escatology like the one most common in America today.
@@keithstewart934, the Greek word _tachos_ in Rev 1:1 means “quickly” which could mean before much time passes, or in a short space of time once it starts. Claims that this verse means that Jesus was revealing things that came to pass not long after the vision was given are falsified by the fact that he revealed things that span over a thousand years. So the only way to arrive at any sort of Preterist interpretation of Revelation would be to ignore the millennium but also to allegorize away most of the details because most of the things he described have yet to happen.
There are other examples where _tachos_ is used in this way. For example, the lesson of the parable of the persistent widow is that God will bear long with people who cry to him for help AND he will avenge them speedily (en tachos). That’s a perfect example because Jesus literally describes waiting a long time for something that’s going to happen suddenly when it does happen.
“And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"
Luke 18:8
So Rev 1:1 means that Jesus Christ was going to show things which must happen “with haste” (en tachos), and I think John received the visions during the First Jewish War in late 69 AD which would not have been long before Dan 9:26 was fulfilled because the Four Horsemen describe God’s judgement of Israel with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple.
I'm so confused with all this eschatology! Pastors who have gone thru seminary seem to have the end time prophecies all wrong! So lay out for me what is coming? Second coming? end of the world? Will Israel get nuked? Please help me understand all this! How can so many get this wrong? I think you are right on the mark Mr. Gary Demar. Thanks for your ministry.
Basically we need to live as if the world will be here for another 20,000 years, and we christians need to get to work spreading the ACTUAL Gospel everywhere.
Read The APOCALYPSE CODE By Hank Hanagraaff, it's very eye-opening.
Modern Israel is not God's chosen people.. those who are in Christ are the true Israel of God..read Ephesians 6
Our own individual 'rapture' will occur within the next 80 years for most of us. That is the day we leave this earth and enter the permanent life. What is the use of looking for deliverance when life is already rather short ?
They use it as an excuse to justify laziness and cowardice. They want to control every other aspect of their lives, but say "I just trust Jesus" when it cones to the more difficult tasks.
Once I realized this, I became VERY angry at church leaders and professing christians. They're liars.
There is but one central church and that is the body of Christ. Those who fellowship together in unity may abound all over the world, yet are still apart of the one body of Christ, provided that they all are speaking and living the same principle doctrine as recorded in the scriptures. Whether or not the seven churches in revelation were written to that particular time period can be debatable, but we as true individual believers know assuredly that the word of God is not about debate, but rather ministering wholesome words that the hearer may come to understanding. Also the doctrine of the rapture did not come into view until in the early 1800's by a man named John Nelson Darby, prior to that there was no such teachings about a rapture as it is so unscriptural explain today. Yes there will be a gathering of God's people immediately after tribulation. Matthew 24:29-31.
Gary, once again, hits the nail on the head! NOTHING in the book of Revelation speaks of seven church ages! Revelation was written before AD 70 About things that would soon come to pass affecting seven first century churches.😊
Well of course there will be a rapture (parousia). The question is this: What does Paul mean by the word? Most Greek definitions will translate the word as "arrival" or "coming". There is no hint from the text that the Church will be taken anywhere.
Exactly. The Rapture does exist in the Bible. Its just that the Bible doesn't teach what is commonly believed to be the modern interpretation of it.
Faulty logic. If you show 10 children basic instructions with a guideline clear to see, but 8 of them add or take away from those instructions and follow their own interpretation of the facts instead of the guideline presented, you don't blame the guideline or the author of it because those following don't understand or want to understand. Some may be confused, but some may not truly be followers. This is the case with denominations; some are false, some are confused, but God is still true.
I'm sorry; I find many theological problems with this view based on what the Bible says. 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, 5:1-11 talks about the rapture (or being caught up). The church is the Bride of Christ, so I can't understand the groom pouring out His wrath on His bride through the book of Revelation. Persecution happens to believers, but it's from those that hate Christ and Christians (John 15:18-20, 1John 3:13) not the Lord. Too little space, but I disagree.
OMG BROTHER ERIC YOU ARE 100% RIGHT THE BIBLE PLAINLY SAYS I WILL KEEP YOU FROM NOT THROUGH THESE TRIBULATION TIMES THAT ARE COMING. WHAT KIND OF GOD WOULD ALLOW HIS BRIDE TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH THESE TIMES. IF HE CAN NOT SEE THAT: HE DON'T KNOW THE JESUS THAT I KNOW. I LOVE JACK, BUT I DON'T HAVE TO AGREE WITH EVER DENOMINATIONAL DIFFERENT WE MAY DIFFER ON. . WHY WOULD GOD SAVE ME IF I WAS NO BETTER OFF THAN A SINNER. MY TEACHER IS THE HOLY GHOST. I AM SEALED IN THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST UNTIL THE TIME OF REDEMPTION. AND THAT REDEMPTION IS THE RAPTURE OR BY THE WAY OF THE GRAVE. I LEAVE THAT UP TO JESUS. GOD BLESS TRUMP MAGA LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC AND FOR ALL YOU GRUNTS (MARIN) SIMPER FI JUST A THOUGHT. GOD BLESS.
I used to believe this stuff that JM traches.
I asked the Lord for the truth and at first it was hard to swallow because of all the years of false doctrine i have studied for years. But now i look back and cringe at how ignorant i was.
It's about the culture cultur culture.
Thank you Gary.
Your sir are such a good teacher
It’s just crazy the stuff they will come up with, trying to get around the facts of what is actually said!!
And those letters were to 7 actual churches back then.. 2000 YEARS AGO!! It is not referring to us today!
This whole view is just ridiculous!!
SpecialK 77, in Rev 3:10, Jesus promised the church in Philadelphia to keep them out of the time of testing that’s coming on the whole inhabited world to try everyone dwelling on the earth. That time is defined by prophesies across the Bible as the great tribulation, but the details they describe never happened. Either God’s prophetic warnings and promises about these events bear no resemblance to reality, or the prophesies are still in our future.
And no one has explained the use of dire warnings that bear no resemblance to reality.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 "dire warnings that bear no resemblance to reality" will call you : 1) to ask yourself the question of audience relevance
2) seek for the context in history of the authors and contemporaries of the Scriptures
For you to be able to conclude that it's about your future.
If you didn't exist today will it change the validity of the Holy Scriptures????
@@rogerzendong1284, if you believe that Dan 9:27 was fulfilled in the first century, please explain who was the “he” that confirmed a covenant, who were the “many,” when did the sacrifices cease, and what was the abomination that “he” setup?
“And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”
Dan 9:27
@@rogerzendong1284, oh, and do you believe that Daniel’s 70 weeks continued from start to finish without a pause or gap?
@@biblehistoryscience3530 Please give me an example of a count where you see a gap. This is just man made doctrines without any logic. When you add a gap what does that represent? I can't count 6 days and then say 1 car then 7 day. God said 70 weeks isn't that clear.
You yourself said that Jesus promised the church of Philadelphia : did He promised to you ? Or us 2000 years later. SIMPLY NO.
Part 2: While this subject definitely takes more study, and I am always willing to study it because I love and want to honor God; I can't just accept anything because a few verses are pulled together. I've listened to so many views and asked honest questions about those views and get some answers that dishonor scripture and the nature of Jesus Christ and His bride, the church. If I'm wrong, God will reveal it, but sometimes I feel opposing sides care more about being right than God being right
Don't worry, we don't have to have everything nailed down...God is great...it is His grace that saves. The plain things are the main things and childlike faith is precious in His sight.
You know what? You're right.
The tribulation everyone goes on about was the tribulation experienced by the Jews of Christ's generation.
Truth brings people to Christ. Keep up the good work, Gary.
Dumb
Right-On Gary!!!
Thanks 4 your hard work.
Believing we float up to the sky to meet Jesus is a contributing factor why the conscientious people of the age reject the Gospel.
Really?? 1thess 4:17 Paul mentioned the words caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Are we to disregard this verses from Paul? This is totally separate from the 2nd bodily coming of Christ on earth.
@@joeyrollo3053 Was Adam supposed to fulfill the purpose of creation, through obeying God, on earth or in the sky? Did Jesus encourage anyone to place their attention for the salvation of their spirit in the sky? No. Rather he revealed that the Kingdom of God, and His will, should be done on earth.
What is the original purpose of creation? Surely it is attached to the words of God, "of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." We can only speculate what the world would have looked like if Adam and Eve obeyed God. Perhaps it would have been the ideal world of perfect love between man and God, and man and man. What we can be sure of is that God does not speak idle words, or speak casually to people whose souls are in peril. Therefore we conclude God expected obedience, and was preparing for victory, and the family of God should proceed from His instruction, through fulfilling their portion of meaningful, consequential responsibility. This would be the ideal circumstance.
The Spirit grows in the soil of the physical body. Through God's word, we gain dominion over our body which carries the fallen nature, and become people who are fruitful, who expand a Godly lineage, and who can demonstrate true dominion over creation. This is the restoration of the original purpose of creation, through the ministry of Jesus. When a person who loves God dies, He graduates into the realm of eternity, which is a substantial realm.
God seeks a Godly seed, as we learn through Malachi. Satanic accusation is not a condition a Godly seed perpetuates. Adam was born without original sin, as was the Last Adam, Jesus, which is to say, they both were the Lords of a godly seed. If Adam did not fall, his descendants would have had good ancestors, and God would have had a Godly seed, in a corporeal and incorporeal universe where satan had no power over perfected man, and perfected man's offspring. To accomplish this, Adam was the lynchpin.
Jesus had the fruits of the Spirit and operated in the gifts of the Spirit. Since Jesus was the Last Adam, does this mean Adam could have possessed these capabilities? I don't see why not. After all, doesn't being the Lord of Creation, made in God's image and likeness include dominion over the incorporeal realm as well as this physical world? God gave these gifts to fallen, albeit redeemed men.
Wherefore thus saith YAHOVAH God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
ruclips.net/video/J3oI0DMtHi4/видео.html
@@lakevacm i just quoted what paul has said. It is a written word of God. I dd not interpret it myself. I believe in the new heaven and new earth. We are now living in a fallen world bec. of adam sin. Obviously this earth also is part of redemptive plan of God. Believing on meeting God in the air doesnt negate the fact that all the redeemed will live here on the new earth in the future time.
@@joeyrollo3053 There is only one "second coming" of Christ. Logically, if there is going to be a "rapture" before a seven year tribulation, then the "rapture" is the "second coming" of Christ and that would make the "second coming" of Christ at the end of the seven year tribulation the "third coming" of Christ! Dispensationalism is totally illogical!
@@scottleary8468 being caught up in the air is not Christ coming down on Earth as what Paul has said.
JESUS SUMS UP EVERYTHING HE WAS SAYING TO THE CHURCH, REV 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches"
hi there, meaning what exactly? kindly seeking your counsel. thanks.
@@jesusmarywillsaveyou What is your question?
@@drtruthseeker8400 I just wanted to know why you used that Revelation verse? Did you use it to to say that "churches" is implied for the Church of Christ (We, the body of Christ) or did you use it to emphasise that the Lord was speaking specifically to the 7 Churches? Thanks.
@@jesusmarywillsaveyou Churches means every Church that knows Christ.....I used it because the false teachers using Pre-trib say that the Church is not mentioned past Rev ch4, so that means the Church is not here during the Tribulation, However, Jesus Clearly said in the Ch 22, Rev was to all the "Churches"
There is an overall general question that ALL believers must answer before squabbling over labeling one another’s doctrines assigned by scholarly men.
Who was the Bible written FOR?
Next….
Do you believe that God’s Holy Word was left for our example?
Then…
Understand the TRUTH of God’s Holy Word is timeless and profitable for all who have faith in Jesus Christ and believe in God almighty.
The Bible is your instructions on how to endure til the end and you are in the Garden with the rest of the saints from Genesis to Revelation.
The characteristics of the seven churches may be found in many churches that have existed throughout the ages corporately and as individual members across all denominations that claim faith in Christ. Spend some time and read the letters and let’s all correct those things Christ warns us all about.
God bless us all in our efforts to endure.
So is revelation even about an end times?Do we have any reason to believe in the "last days" at all? Or was revelation just about a time period after Jesus a long time ago?
@ rioyuske
The "last days" are past.
@AnglicanApologist72 We are in the New Jerusalem if that is what you mean. God bless.
I answered that in my last post; take some time and read it carefully. Some are not followers, some are still growing, and some follow Christ to their deaths. Your complaints about God are expected; the Bible says so. Again, if you don't want to believe and live the life you want, then do so. I pray God will open your eyes to the folly of being a slave to sin and show you his majesty, wonder, and unending love. He holds your breath and offers you salvation; I pray you trust Him one day.
It will all pan out in the end. To each his own to believe what they want. I believe that God is not going to have us going through what the non saints will go through. Will will all find out what is true and not when the time comes.
Why don't you tell that to all the martyrs who died for the cause of Christ?
2 Thessalonians 2 lays out the pre Trib rapture. It is either noticed or it is not. It doesn't help that the early English Bibles have "departing" while the world at large is stuck on "falling away". So in verse 3. The departing comes first. This will cause a global panic. Someone will have to step up and take control and well, we know the rest.
but it is supposed to happen SOON. not 2000+ years later. and thessalonians was written to the people of THESSOLONIA
@@kingleonidas6352 Is by the end of this year soon enough for you?
The Bible talks of a first resurrection where the angels gather the saints . Matt 24:31. But this rapture concept don't make a lot of sense to me.....People disappearing out of cars and planes etc ...( .and no signs of angels ? )......Might make for interesting movies BUT please, don't treat us like children.
Bass Point Live, the “first” of two resurrections mentioned in Rev 20:5 is stated to be for saints killed during the great tribulation.
And church saints had to have been raptured before the great tribulation started because the glorified bride is seen at the marriage and marriage supper of the Lamb that Rev 19 shows are held behind closed gates in Heaven during the great tribulation.
And the rapture cannot possibly happen between the second coming and Millennium because there would not be anyone left in natural bodies to repopulate earth during the Millennium because the only people to survive the great tribulation will be saints, according to Rev 13:8, 14 and 19.
@ Bass Point Live
"Don't treat us like children"
Such stuff is very symptomatic of those apathetic feminised emotional societies we live in , that is Europe and North America.
Today's Christians are more into watching silly fictional movies posing as christian than searching the TRUTH in Scriptures
The rapture is after the great tribulation.
The tribulation ended in the 1st century.
The rapture happens right at the final judgment when the heaven and earth are destroyed in the fire
of Revelation 20.
Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15, that the last trumpet would see the abolishment of death.
The same thing happens in the Great White Throne judgment of Revelation 20 when death is thrown into the lake of fire.
Also in 1 Corinthians 15, we see the dead in Christ are raised and those alive are transformed into immortality.
Clearly that has not happened in 70AD. It will happen in the future.
That is when the heaven and earth are destroyed by fire and the new heaven and earth come where there will be no more death.
So heaven and Earth will literally be destroyed by fire? I thought Jesus was going to redeem the Creation.
Amen Dr.Demar I am with you all the way you are rightfully dividing the word of Truth.
I would like to know when you and John McArthur have a debate it will be very interesting
Amen 🙏!
It baffles me that people say him & others alike are heretical when they use scripture to interpret scripture, the correct exegetical eschatology but something taught such as a pretrib rapture not in scripture is not heretical, seems to me that reading something into the bible should be more a problem but is prob just eisegesis unfortunately. Learning it just makes more sense keeping our hearts set on The King of Kings & The Lord of Lords Jesus Christ
They form a "gospel" that suits their lives and existing ideas.
I will try to be as respectful as I can as I answer you for the final time (in this and other posts you wrote). I am not obligated to give you anything; you made a comment on my post and I answered you. I don't have to jump through hoops to give you what I already gave you. You seem to want to debate for the sake of debating and this isn't a game to me; this is life or death. You ask for evidence but aren't specific, this way you can discard anything given. That is you choice; so ok.
Why can’t all the churches come to an agreement.
Money 💰
Isaiah 9:7...God’s government is increasing everywhere but not in the hearts & minds brainwashed in dispensation doctrine. Their ‘escapism’ is unbiblical for how is God’s glory to fill the earth by taking us off the earth. It is Christ IN us the hope of glory...Jesus said in John 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them OUT OF THE WORLD but that you protect them from the evil one. Why would Jesus make that statement & then do otherwise?
jcismyall, Jesus said in Jn. 17:6-19 that he did not pray this for the world but those whom the Father gave him, that the Father not take them out of this world, and it necessary for them to hear this because he’d just promised (Jn.14) to go and prepare a place for them in his Father’s house and return to take them there. And the reason for leaving them behind was obviously because he was in the process of tasking them with establishing churches and writing the New Testament. So this was a prayer that just they not be raptured in life, but he would take them out of this world after death.
To apply Jesus’ prayer to everyone in the church is to quote-mine and take it out of context.
@@biblehistoryscience3530
That escapist mentality is symptomatic of our apathetic emasculated countries (the West) who don't have the courage to keep up the good fight and endure hardships and think that God is so loving that he cannot "beat" his wife lol
its popular bc if false secret gathering but if they said we go through it they would get out if dispensationalists junk
How do you know it was apart of the bible? What basis do you use to know it isn't a false book?
This argument was actually what made me convinced that premillenialism was wrong. As a very young man I was reading Hal Lindsy's commentary on Revelation THERE'S A NEW WORLD COMING. Hal made this argument. He also made a bit deal out of John being told to "come up hither." He said that proved the rapture to him. I closed the book in disbelief. Tim Lahaye also likes to point out that he thinks The Reformation is the Church of Laodicea because of John's negative words. Lahaye is an Arminian:)
I HAD A PASTOR TELL ME THE 24 ELDERS REPRESENT THE 24 NATIONS, AND THEY ARE RAPTURED, SO WE ARE TOO....WOW!!!!!!!
And I agree with your opinion. Just like GOD said in Ezekiel 13:17-23 ... they are deceiving the souls that should not die and teaching a false salvation to those who GOD already knows will not make it.
They are "pregnant" and giving "suck" of such lie...
Luke 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
They are no longer virgins.. 2Corinthians 11:2-4.
You want John to give an answer to that? He can't. That was simply air tight. Well done Gary. One more thing, even if it was "The Church" as they state, there still isn't anything there.
Nathan, if you believe that the verse in1Thessalonians doesn't mean caught up, then that is your choice. I could comment about your assertions, but what good would it do? You would reply with your view, then I would reply back. I am not the Holy Spirit and neither are you. If you feel you have strong Biblical evidence, share it and let the Holy Spirit convict. The fact that so many want to argue the point when it's not a salvation issue seems counterproductive. And remember....
I am a pretrib dispensationalist, but never would divide from a true brother over eschatology. It is very important but it is not the gospel. Gary's points are biased towards his views just like the rest of us. Of course it mentions the seven specific churches, the letter was written to them but for all of us in Christ, that's just basic.
To believe that all biblical prophecy has already been fulfilled defies reality. As I've listened to other programs by those in agreement with Gary, apparently the flaming return of Jesus in judgment already happened in AD 70, and had to be corroborated by an unbeliever, the historian Josephus.
The SAME way that the 'trinity' is implicit, not explicit
Part 1- I feel you bro! When I reconciled with Christ in 2002 I started studying it and was just flabbergasted by all the views on Eschatology. I can assure you American Vision will lead you in the right direction. Man I thank God for Gary Demar. As a former Dispensationalist myself, I heard Gary on the bible answer man and thought Gary was off his rocker. I purchased his book "Last Days Madness" because I was curious to read his heretical (at least that is what I thought at the time) message.
Revelation Chapter 4 begins with the John in heaven witnessing the 24 elders in resurrected bodies in white robes. If the preterist asserts that the book of reveleation was fufilled in AD 70 how did the 24 elders get there resurrected bodies.
Those are the one's whom were resurrected when Christ bound the strong man (satan) at his resurrection.
Part 2...a true believer will be kept and led by the Holy Spirit until the day we receive our transformed body. If anyone is wrong in their view, the Holy Spirit will reveal it, so I am not so concerned. If I am wrong and I have to go through the tribulation, I can accept that because it is God who keeps me. Now, can you accept that you could be raptured out of wrath? I can accept God's will either way, but can you? If you can, then it's ok, if not, it may be a sign of a deeper issue.
The theology of a post tribulation rapture is also IMPLICIT. Not Explicit. Nowhere in the bible is the exact timing stated, but there are verses however that seem to indicate what that timing is, depending of course on how you read the bible.
It helps a lot..
Even if your view was correct these churches where promised by God they would escape judgment(trial) so if God promised them why would He not promise us who have similar traits as them.
Aint what hairold camping said an he smart!
@XDragasesX, so what was the final outcome of the Prodigal son?
Ask him when you get to heaven.
according to him then the bible isnt for anyone in this time and period? or does he not realize this? the seven churches are the seven assemblies that are seven heart conditions of the pple.
These are still tribulation verses for those going through that time; and Jesus' explanation of it still pertains to the Jews primarily. Jesus answered the disciples about the end of the world and the sign of His coming, but the church age was still a mystery revealed to the Apostle Paul. There are many confusing scriptures concerning the rapture and the second coming, but if some views bring more questions and a reinterpretation of scripture, I tend not to trust it because God isn't chaotic.
@11914386 Why can't Christians discuss differences? I don't think this dude is attacking anyone; quite to the contrary, he is respectfully trying to bring clarity to an issue that causes the world to mock the church. Christians have been thinking they are going to be raptured ever since Darby started his dispensational thing. Whats the matter with living and dying and going to heaven? Sounds pretty cool to me.
@TheCannonofMohammed If you read his articles you would see that DeMar is not as diplomatic as he his with a video that will be seen by the public. And just because someone like Darby believed in the Rapture does not mean it is not correct. Using that line of logic, we could say that when the Reformation declared we were saved by Grace alone, by Faith alone and by Christ alone is incorrect since the Church had not been teaching it for hundreds of years. Cont~
Ok so what does all this have to do with your title, cause your title implies there is no rapture at all, but your speech seems to be trying to disprove a pre-trib rapture??
It mens yer a stupid jackass lol
FREEDOM6427 Exactly.. No “pre-trib rapture”!
I wish you would all stop making prophecies. You’re making me dizzy. No different than going to a fortuneteller.
😂
Nathan, no offense, but I don't want to debate this with you; unless you have Biblical evidence that my disagreement on this view means I'm not saved and I'm going to hell. If so, then please share that with me because I don't want to displease God, but if it doesn't; we can respectfully disagree. If you feel the way you do, be satisfied with that if I don't agree. In the same way, it is not my job to convince you either. It would take up too much space and time to defend this biblically.
There are many, many, many, things to be concerned about other than predicting whether the harpazo well be pre, mid, or post tribulation...in fact it does not matter no man can change when it occurs... it well be when it is...no divination required...watch and pray my Brethren ..i will say this though there is much biblical evidence that the believer will not suffer the 3.5 year tribulation much has recently been revealed
the sign of the coming of the man in,my 24 all the nation's will mourn.
David Padilla That’s referring to “the ancient of days,” in Daniel 7 specifically verse 14
I take huge issue that there is supposedly a period of time that if you get saved before that time you will get pulled off the earth and the rest may or may not get saved but will still have to go through tribulation. Some people will read anything into the text in order to believe they will avoid persecution. There are some even teaching that the verse in Revelation that says "come up hither" (Rev 4:1) means that is the moment of the rapture of the church. Speaking of implicit and explicit, these words explicitly were given to John, for John and about John in his vision (Am I too simple???). Also, why would God merely imply here and there in His Word about a pre-trib rapture? Wouldn't He want us to know without a doubt? Or take that the Bible says we are not under His wrath as proof of pre-trib rapture. If so, then why do Christians experience persecution, death and hell on earth in Muslim countries? Should we take that to mean that persecution and tribulation is God's wrath? That doesn't make sense. Maybe much of the last days are the natural consequences of a fallen world that has refused to acknowledge God (there is obviously a point that God's wrath is poured out and the text says it is specifically poured out on those who have the mark of the beast). There are too many holes in these popular theories. I grew up thinking what the majority of Christians believe, but have too many questions to know what to believe.
Since science is always proving itself wrong, it is also fictitious according to your statement. So, why replace one fiction with another? That's illogical. Why not avoid both fictions?
Part II- And thank THE LORD I read that book! Gary leaves no stone un-turned. He covers it all. I immediately dropped the dispensational view. We will never know all the answers, but to me Partial Preterism makes the most sense comparing scripture with scripture.
Go Gary!!!
That's right. Trying to teach intelligence to self-appointed intellectuals is pointless -they don't get it. Claiming you love humor is not the same thing as proving it.
Problem number one. The word "Church" never occurs anywhere in scripture. Nor does the word we're getting Church from (Ekklesia) mean anything even close to what is looked at as the "Church". We need to get real here and start studying the text as it was given, in context, from a historical, Grammatical and cultural perspective or we will continue to debate the Scriptures from a erroneous aspect.
With that said though, I do appreciate your talking about and asking the tough questions.
In Matt 22:23-32 Jesus explained the implicit doctrine of the Resurrection. What is more fundamental than this ? Acts 17:11
I agree that JMAC is solid on a lot of his teaching, but when it comes to some areas he changes his Hermeneutic. Eschatology and Baptism are two examples of his blindness and prejudice. Thank God for JMAC and his general Faithfulness, but he is certainly wrong about the two aspects of Theology mentioned above.
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?
(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)
The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?
1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8)
2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?
3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?
4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?
5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?
6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"?
7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost?
8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.)
9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
10. Watch the RUclips video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church.
Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology.
Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.
Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.
John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…
"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”
John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.)
What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth?
Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups?
Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13?
Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
Total nonsense
Muito bom
You're more concerned with being right and preterists being wrong. You should put this effort into teaching Genesis and the Gospels. Why Genesis? Well, how can you save people that don't even know they're lost? I think it's a mistake to focus only on the Gospels. Peter, when preaching to the gentiles had to go back to genesis for them to understand the Gospels. How can anyone appreciate Jesus' sacrifice for our redemption, if they don't know about the fall of Adam?
The mark of the beast denotes buying and selling only if one posses the mark according to revelation 13. In this time period of revelation gold and silver is thrown out in the streets because it is not worth anything. This has never happened in history. Another blow to preterism.
acctualy there is some old writing shown if you burned incence to the ceasar you would receive a slip like our money to be able to buy . go research your self and another man made images speak as well . again do research on your own
samantha, that doesn’t confine the ability to buy or sell to that one particular method, nor does it have anything to do with gold and silver becoming worthless. It hasn’t ever happened, as dan said.
@@misskim2058 First of all, how could you claim that it's never happened? It's probably happened every time a city is laid under siege and circumvilation, when the inhabitants starve, and money becomes totally worthless.
Second of all, it DID happen, as the passage stating that(they throw their gold and silver into the streets) is from Ezekiel 7, which is describing the siege of Jerusalem by the Babylonians in Ezekiel's day, and the misery of the inhabitants. God takes him there to witness it. Much of the imagery from Revelation is taken directly from Ezekiel, including the "mark." In Ezekiel, a man with ink and quill marks a cross on the forehead of all those in Jerusalem who weep for the abominations committed by their brethren, and they are spared the judgement, just like in Revelation the ones with the mark of God are saved.
So yes, people threw silver and gold into the streets as it became worthless wayyy back in the 6th century bc in Jerusalem. The Bible says so, and the same things happened in 70ad, but much worse, and on a much larger scale.
@@histguy101 Not large enough.
Good points on Rev 3 and the church references, I agree. Throwing out questions is the easy part. Defining what the scriptures truly mean is another matter all together, and then the Preterist view becomes very questionable. In mho.
It is obvious that you do not understand the purpose of the scriptures, is for the edification of the body of Christ throughout the Church age. Your choice in semantic over Church or Churches is at best immature. It doesn't matter about the time period of the Rev. 1-3 churches or for that matter any other churches mention in scripture because their inclusion is for the edification of the believer past, present and future the physicality of the churches location is of secondary importance.
Truth you say? So you know what truth is. I'd love to hear you define it. The greatest philosophers that ever lived struggled with that, but you've got it figured out. That's rich! Especially when you make exclusive claims like "there is no evidence that supports any of the claims made in the Bible." That's plain ignorant. The Bible mentions Rome. Are you saying just because the Bible mentions it, there's no evidence for it? I could go on.
You have no point. So, how could anyone possibly miss it? Since you value intelligence so highly, you might want to go back to school and take some grammar classes. It would help you deliver your thoughts accurately and more concisely.
Also about 1/3 of the Bible is prophetic so that means it is important to God and we should study it. Prophecy is given as proof that the word of God is real and no other holy book has a 100% batting average like the Bible. DeMar just parrots what others teach. He has nothing original in his teaching.
"SAINTS" ARE ANGELS THAT JESUS RETURNS WITH, BECAUSE THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST, THEN WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN ( AFTER THE TRIB) WILL MEET ALL OF THEM :-)
prove where the bible has been changed.
I don't think there will be a 'pre-tribulation' rapture
same here.. i used to believe in pre-trib..now I am in Amillenialism
jrosana03 I'm gonna have to look that word up!
@@jrosana03 I am leaning towards Postmillenialism or at least Optimistic Amillenialism! Habbakuck 2:14 "For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD as the waters cover the sea."
If I had them all memorized, I could present about 10 different bible facts that would show how incorrect his post rapture theorie is. The PreTrib R is seen especially when you use the correct meaning of some of the Greek words & grammar in the verses he uses which are not interpreted correctly.
take a look at rev 3v10 since you have kept my command to endure patiently I will also keep you....what does he mean by keep you....from the hour of trial...what is this referring to...the tribulation...that is going that is going to come upon the whole world....tribulation this revered happened it 70 ad...this states the hour of what coming not on the Roman Empire but the whole world. not parts of it but the whole world. to test ...test why and for...to test those who live on the earth....
The passage says "which shall come upon all the οἰκουμένη"
(oikouménē- The inhabited Earth), i.e. The Roman world. This word is also used in Luke 2:1 "...a Decree went out by Caesar Augustus that the whole world be taxed(οἰκουμένη)."
And also in Rev 3:10 "to try them which dwell upon the Earth(γῆ - "Ghey," meaning "the land," as opposed to the sky, or the sea).
The whole earth he is referring to Isaiah 22 23 24 25 26 hosea
All the earth means all of not part of but whole all of it the inhabitants of the whole.
Now you're changing your statement. First you said the Bible was entirely false. Now you say it has some truth. And, you claim to value the truth. That's a joke.
I don't know which bible you people are read stop being blind people ,please read new king James.
Did the apostles write in English????
Actually the truth made me an atheist, because there is no evidence that supports any of the claims made in the bible. No Adam and Eve. Genesis is a complete myth just like the Exodus. No proof of Moses, Abraham, Noah, etc. No great flood. Jesus' alleged story in every Gospel contradicts itself over and over......etc.,etc. Jesus is a myth which Christianity plagiarized stories from various other religions such as Hinduism, Mithra, and others into their cult which Constantine gave legitimacy to.
You missed my point. Way over your head. You not being smart enough to teach it has nothing to do with an intelligent person being able to learn something. Ad hominem. Self appointed? Wish I was. Unlike most people, I accept evidence towards the contrary, regardless of personal beliefs or wishful thinking.
Jesus referring is referring in Luke 33...34...35 the escape...to Isaiah the prophet there is a verse referring about god.s chamber whom God is speaking telling his people to come up to his chambers[heaven] and to covered for a little while from his wrath that is coming upon the face the earth...this is the rapture...they are to be hidden in his chambers.
Part 2; And I've actually been in many conversations with people that hold differing views and guess what, rarely does anything I say sway them, even if I read certain verses that question the view. What would be the point of arguing; I just respectfully posted what the Bible says and if that caused any sort of stir, I apologize. I feel the Bible says we're not appointed to wrath; Christians disagree with when that wrath is and what constitutes wrath, but again, unless it's a salvation issue..
I agree that your endeavor to teach intelligence would be a waste. You can't teach it if you don't understand the concept. Btw, I love humor. Carlin, Penn & Teller, Jeffries, Franken, Germaine, etc. Even Larry the Cable Guy.
I recommend anger management therapy for you. Really, it will help you deal with some deep-seated issues.
Stellar contribution.
You point the finger at these teachers are dishonest yet you are being dishonest. You have provided no scriptures to show that the Church as a corporate body of believers will be in the tribulation, where in the bible is the trinity, where is the millennium in the bible but we all use it. You miss the point that even though those churches in rev. Had physical locations they were promise if the get their act together like the Philadelphia church they would escape the trail coming upon the world.
Saint Al because the tribulation was in their future, but it’s in our past. The tribulation occurred in late 60s and 70 A.D.
Who says I was attempting intelligence? Any such endeavor would be wasted on you. As for humor, people like you take your selves far too seriously to bother with humor.
Now look who's trying to be intelligent. And when that fails, why not try vulgar language to punctuate your thoughts?
Demars and others of this persuasion have to allegorize scripture to make it fit there view.
Riiiiiiiiiight
dan hoerle much of scripture is allegorical. Look at the parables for example. Also, look at the apocalyptic language used throughout The Bible, especially in Isaiah and Revelation. In Revelation Christ is depicted as a lamb. Is he a literal lamb or is that allegory?
Believers will be resurrected and meet Jesus at the second coming
The gospel is the gospel of the kingdom!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah died for his people! God resurrected the Messiah! The Messiah will resurrect his people at his coming! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Matt 24
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
Their are wholes in everybody's theory, that is why they call it the holly bible.
truethinker, really holes and holy.
Share Gary Demar with the world please!
Jack Van Impe is a man of God. He has dedicated his life to Jesus Christ knows and can recite most of the Bible heart. Can you do that Sir. I guess not yet you choose to openly critise him. Shame on you.
You are right when you say many people don't agree with you. You have no integrity and bad mouth him. You are a disgraceful man, and I would not even call you a Christian, because if you are a man of God you should build people up and not bad mouth them. SHAME ON YOU
Norma Moore So pointing out unscriptural teaching of a person is bad mouthing ? Then I guess Jesus bad mouthed the Pharisees & wasn’t a Christian... besides Mr DeMar was speaking of the teaching of John MacArthur not Jack Van Impe. But I take issue with people who teach unbiblical stuff too & yes, Mr Van Impe has been known for his MANY failed date setting predictions. Doesn’t mean I don’t pray for him but I avoid those who falsely prophesy in the manner Van Impe does b/c it is a misrepresentation of Christ & leads people astray with gloom/doom doctrine.
@ Norma Moore
Has Mac Arthur become an idol ?
You see , when he teaches (off topic) in marriage the WILFUL submission of the wife , can't you see how he adds things to the text ?
What if the wife does not want to submit ? Well , it's ok , she has free will . Such teaching is dangerous , misleading and just condones wifely rebellion. You will wonder then why there are so many divorces among Christians who fawn over Great Pastor X or Great Pastor Z .
So , if he is bad on marriage , why wouldn't he be bad on eschatology too ?
@@jcismyall
It is very serious when Christians start to play the fortune tellers , it verges on divination .