Vibration Damping Materials Comparison Revisited for Quadcopter FPV & Aerial Camera Setups
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 2 май 2013
- Spoiler alert! Moongel (amzn.to/198RdU4) is the winner in this follow-up test.
In my original video ( • Quadcopter Vibration D... ) I reviewed a few materials for vibration damping. Since that time I've received a bunch of comments related to the zip tie I was using to hold my iPhone on TBS Discovery. After a few months of experimentation I've been working with some different materials that I wanted to compare against Moongel and foam earplugs. This time around I used a rubberband and actually do a comparison of Kyosho Zeal with and without the rubberband. The results are discussed in the video and you can see them in more detail here:
docs.google.com/spreadsheet/c...
Moongel wins again with foam earplugs coming in a close second place. I had expected Kyosho Zeal to be the clear winner, but it didn't hold up very well.
As I state in the video if you have properly balanced and sized props, motors, and use Moongel then you should expect good results.
Thank you for taking the time to watch this vid and please post any questions or comments below.
Thank you so much for your time and effort in doing this.
I am glad I came across this video.
You got it. Thank you for watching and seeing the data really opened my eyes.
I appreciate it. I've compared quite a few materials over the past year and figured it was worth putting this together. I really like what Moongel does for vibration dampening.
Jacob, thank you for the feedback. I'm glad to have shared it and Moongel is definitely the best material I've tried so far.
This was very informative. Ordered myself some moon gel to play with. Thanks for the excellent work!
No problem, Greg. Hope the Moongel works out for you. Take care.
Thank you so much. I truly appreciate your feedback. I'll see if I can get a motor balancing video in the queue. How your TBS is taking good care of you. I love flying it. Definitely one of my favorite frames, but the QAV500 has had my eye lately!
Thank you for the feedback and I'm glad to hear that this info is helping. I've spent way too much time messing with this stuff :) I feel like I could do more, but I think the improvements will be minimal over what Moongel can do with balanced motors and props.
Thanks James. I'm glad you started with Moongel as it took me about 6 months after I mounted my first cam to use it. Lots of crappy video until that point :) Moongel with balanced motors and props has really worked wonders for me.
Gary, this is great info and I appreciate you sharing it. When I started doing different material comparisons I didn't fathom all the variations that could come up during testing. The most recent being sizing and positioning of the materials. I too use Zeal under each corner of my APM, but normally use Moongel under my GoPro. I will look into doing some testing with less Zeal under the GoPro and will see if I can publish some results. Thank you.
John, that's good to hear. I'll see if I can pick this up and do a test with a few other materials that have been recommended as of late. Will let you know when I get around to this. Thanks for the suggestion.
Great work this will save me and plenty of others time, thank you!!
+Tegan Burns No problem. Thanks for watching.
The benchmarking is very well executed, what's results in an excelent footage. Thks!
No problem. Thanks for following along.
Thank you, Ron. I like the 32dB earplugs and use them every now and then, but Moongel is tough to beat. Good luck with it.
Thanks for posting this. Very helpful!
This is really helpful! Thank you for spreading you data. Jacob
Good point. With the TBS Discovery frame the place where the motor is mounted is very rigid. I was flying with the F450 previously and there was definitely more flex. Glad to hear your solution for the F450. The TBS Discovery frame is designed for FPV and to have the cam mounted up front. But for some reason I've had troubles with vibes since day 1. After balancing props, motors, and introducing Moongel I feel like the video is pretty good.
From my testing it does need to be compressed, but I'm not sure at what point it will lose it's dampening characteristics. I've only secured it with moderate compression using rubberbands. The only thing I can recommend is to get some and do some testing. I've read of a few guys using two layers of moongel so that may be worth testing as well. I'll see if I can do a follow-up vid that focuses specifically on moongel. Thanks for the question.
This is a really excellent comparison and demonstration video. I've always used DuBro foam and I've been pretty happy with the results but I think I might give moongel a try.
Another great video and comparison of the individual products, since watching your vids I've gone exclusively with moongel where i can.
Moon Gel! First stuff I ever tried, and now possible the last lol. Great Job Mr Baldwin, as always.
Thank you. I appreciate you watching.
Thank you for the tip. We have something called the "magic eraser" that looks similar to the magic foam in the video. I'll see if I can do some tests with it.
Great stuff to watch - I'm a big fan - please keep doing your work - you're helping a lot of people. I'd certainly be interested in your thoughts on how to balance motors. I have a TBS Disco, too.
Wow. That sounds like quite the combo having Moongel and Sorbothane together. If I knew more about vibrations I feel like there would be a good way to use multiple materials to dampen different vibe frequencies. Good idea on the sorbothane washers. When I get a gimbal setup I'll definitely look into those.
Yeah I would have to say that's worth a try. Good suggestion. I've also heard that a couple layers of Moongel works nicely too. I need to try that as well. I appreciate the suggestion and will let you know if I run the test.
Great job,on the vibration damping test,thank you..............
Good point! That's one thing I had forgotten. I switched to 720p 60fps on my Hero 2 and it definitely works much better than 30fps. Your video of the country club looks awesome. Nice work and thanks for the feedback.
The scientific method on display here. Excellent study, sir. Useful stuff indeed.
Thanks for the good words and following along.
Great job Dennis. I've been using 32db earplug foam. I will try moongel next!
Okay, I will try to get some and compare it to MoonGel. Thanks.
It sure has and I am now discovering that certain motors and esc's make a difference as well, just installed some simonK ESC's and did some quick test flights/hovering in the back yard and got some really stable video, My motors seemed to smooth out really nice with those ESC's.
Graham, I'm running an app on the iPhone that measures the vibration damping of different materials. This allows me to determine what material works best to reduce vibrations.
Shawn, many thanks. I was fairly certain before I did the test that Kyosho Zeal would be the clear winner. I believe I was leaning in that direction because how awesome sticky it was. Moongel is sticky, but I still use a rubber band to mount my GoPro. Anyway, Moongel wins hands down.
Fantastic vid, thanks, Dennis!
+Jeff Schwarting No problem. Thanks for following along.
Dennis thank you for all your insight I have been using the KK to board flash 21.5 on a TX copter and recently decided to switch over to a spider copter but for some reason the KK2 board will not stable Icee
Greay info, real awesome review! Thanks!
Thanks so much and don't I feel like an idiot??? You are absolutely right and these words have quite different meanings. I appreciate you calling that to my attention and I've changed references in the text to damping. Unfortunately it's not as easy to change the video :)
Yeah I've been following the BG movement and some amazing things are happening. I would love to move over to one at some point, but am going to give it some time to let things settle. That being said have you seen the QAV500G? Video output looks AMAZING.
Interesting analysis. Many thanks.
No problem. Thanks for watching.
Very nice! I just watched and you're right, there are no vibes in the video that I could tell. Nice way to do a little plum checking :)
Thank you very much! I'm glad this information helped :)
Good thought. I've heard of several pilots using Du-Bro but have never tried it. May have to add that to the list. I appreciate the kind words.
Nice test. The advantage of memory foam style earplugs (besides their cheap price) is that you can simply glue them between two pieces of aircraft plywood, attach bottom plate solidly to the frame, and GoPro solidly to the top plate and then there's no need for rubber bands or other materials to transfer vibration between frame and camera. The huge disadvantage of earplugs is that they become hard when it's cold, making them worthless for winter flying. I'm in the process of building a new mount that uses Moongel, but without need for rubber bands.
Very good info about the earplugs and cold weather. Makes sense, but that had never crossed my mind. Good luck with the Moongel. Hope it works out for you!
Thank you for the video. This will give me a chance to reduce the noise going to my flight controller.
+Damon Keller No problem. Thanks for watching.
Randy, moongel does miracles and APM is very happy with low vibrations (900mm Y6). Easy can expect accel go down from +/-15 to +/- 5 when replacing thin gyro mount foam pads with moongel. I use 2 layers. Only downside it requires rubber band or something to hold things together. Not sticky. Also I store Y6 in level. Hanging copter on the wall is not an option anymore as over the time APM case will slide because of it's own weight. Throws level calibration off.
Drum music stores carry it.
Totally agreed. I'm anxious to find out how much all this is going to cost :)
It`s time to pay back some of all I learned from your many excellent videos and comments. So I like to share this little video "checking plumbs with tbs disco" on my youtube page. I tried a few materials, whithout much vibration dampning. Until I cross strapped the gopro with a welcro strap Worked great for me, as vibration was reduced to nearly zero.
VERY useful, and thanks for the update. The rubberband, although it did add to the vibration profile, will likely be consistent regarding the effect on all the materials that were used equally. Moongel and earplugs clearly win for those wanting to save weight and money.
***** Well said and completely agreed. I do like the Kyosho Zeal though because it's super sticky and I use it a good bit for mounting my FCs.
Hi Dennis, thank you very much for your extensive and methodical testing of this. i picked up in my research that Window gel stickers that can be obtained from a Poundshop or Dollarshop works as effectively as Moongel. I do not have the resources to test this, but if you have some spare time, give it a try. These shops sell this for birthdays and Christmas, and is a lot cheaper than Moongel.
+Bill M That's an awesome tip. I'll definitely look into this. Thank you for sharing.
Dennis, Yes I've taken a look at the video Tim Nilson has posted..very impressive. I think that the combination of the Spider/Quad configuration w/BG is going to be killer. Tune all the vibration out first then install the BG and you can't go wrong.
Man you are good with those google spread sheets! I use 2 strips of moon gel and one 1/4 inch makeup pad for almost jello free video. My camera mount also has rubber dampers.
Good job Dennis.
I never had a problem with jello with my homemade carbon fiber frame but have since moving to the DJI F450 arms. I have a Spider, TBS Discovery and 2 F450's and all have jello to on extent or another. With your help, it's being diminished a lot.
Thanks for looking into that. Now I know. Take care.
Have you looked at any data with vibes with 1 layer of moongel vs 2 layers? I only ask because when I did an eyeball test several months ago it seemed that 2 layers actually caused more vibes than 1 layer. I was testing by looking at the video results of my GoPro so perhaps the weight was a factor vs the weight of the APM.
Mentioning makeup pads remind me of Du-bro part DUB514 (1/2 inch foam rubber) originally used to pack your receiver when flying gas or nitro... Earlier, I didn't say specifically how much I appreciated your efforts on this video... and I did trip the "like" thumb before, as well.
:-D
Thanks Chris. Did you replace the shaft or bend it back? Just wondering how feasible it is to get the shaft straight again.
Nice. Like the kind in your mattress? I was told that it had very similar characteristics as the foam earplugs, but I haven't tested. Where did you get your foam? Thanks for the suggestion.
thank you for the comparison!
My pleasure. Thanks for watching.
Randy, thanks for the feedback. I wanted to add DuBro to the comparison test but was unable to find it at the time. I'll be interested in hearing what your thoughts are after you try Moongel. BTW, great work on the APM project. I'm following all the work you and the team are doing. Trying to keep up with every commit, but I'll admit that a lot of it's over my head. I have an extensive software background, but not much with embedded systems. Maybe I will become a Wiki contributor initially :)
I'm not familiar with the spider copter. Is that a quad configuration? If you do an acc calibration does everything report back ok?
Very through ,detailed video!
MK2EA Thanks. Appreciate the feedback.
Great Video! I recently switched to 32db earplugs and my video from my TBS is practically jello-free. (You can see it in action on my latest video) I also noticed when I made the jump from the gopro 2 to the gopro 3, which can shoot at 1080p 60fps made a significant difference in eliminating jello. Another factor that comes into the play is the tightness of the rubber band. Too tight and you get some vibes, but too lose and you get some vibs also. Anyways, thanks for sharing!
You and those makeup pads :) When you combine Moongel strips do you stack them on top of each other? I only ask because when I tested this the vibes actually turned out worse than just a single strip. Perhaps it's also a function of how much tension you put on it.
Thank you and I'll check out the FB page.
Hi Dennis,
Lotta hard work there. Good Job. If you wanted to test without as much compression, I've used Aleen's TACK-IT Over and Over. Works pretty good where I can't use a good double sided sticky tape.
blessings,
rev don
CFII/A&P
Hi Dennis, I have a bit of experience with Zeal as well, and my findings indicate that for a device the mass of the Iphone you might have had more Zeal than was optimal.
Moon Gel seems is and requires more square inches to provide equivalent damping to Zeal, but if you use the same amount, its likely to be optimal for one and not the other. On the APM we are getting sub 1/10G aceleration in all axes by using 3/4" square pads of Zeal under each corner of the controller. Bigger Zeal = More vibes
20 to 100 hz is what is mentioned on the app webpage which means it is not useable in a FFT analysis. If I recall correctly, the data rate should be 10 times as fast as the data being sampled. Leave the text book on the shelf and keep having FUN!
Excellent video..Moongel looks like the way to go in this configuration. Having said that, a number of people flying TBS Discos are moving over to brushless gimbals. Are planning on doing so anytime soon? I've seen some video on your TBS Disco w/BG and it looks like it's Hollywood level video..
I would like to see how the 3m 4011 compares. This is all I use on my FBL controller on my bigger heli's
3M 4011 Scotch Exterior Mounting Tape as found at wallmart
COOL! Thanks for this. Guitar Center has moongel.
Tommy Drone 5 No problem and great thought about getting it from guitar center.
Props are balanced and using MoonGel dampner material. NTM 2830 750kv GemFan Carbon 10x4.5
First of all I am not trying to take away anything from your video, it is a good informative video.Just to let you know, I have been looking around for the most effective material for mounting my flybarless systems on my helicopters. Some of the materials I have used are very similar to what you used for this comparison. Any way, my best results are with the Zeal gel, but you need to strap the unit down compressing the gel. The flybarless systems I use state not to strap the unit down, but I thought what do I have to loose. I ended up with a 50% reduction on one helicopter and a 80% reduction on another helicopter. This was without any mechanical changes, and before someone goes "balance your blades", I always check my blades are balanced.
+ApriliaRSV4F Thanks so much for the great feedback. I've read several comments suggesting that applying some amount of compression is necessary for certain materials. At these materials should not all be compressed at the same ration. For example, one guy posted about sorbothane needing 50% compression or something like that for maximum effectiveness. I had no clue how much I would learn from you and others when I originally did this video. It's been a great learning experience.
Try to bend the part of the frame that the camera sits on, does it have significant flex? If not, then I guarantee your jello problem will disappear if you use something much more solid than a rubber band to mount the camera. On my DJI frame (with double up bottom plates to reduce flexing) if my velcro strap isn't tight enough, it will jello. In my experience if these vibration materials ever did anything positive to reduce jello, it was because some aspect of my mounting wasn't solid enough.
Have you tired foam weather stripping? comes in a bunch of widths and thicknesses. Sort of has the same characteristics as memory foam. Also TBS came out with a new vibration dampener called the "loveseat". Just a few thoughts!
Thank you. The app is called "Seismometer 6th"
To be fair in the comparison, the 50 Duro Sorbothane was the hardest material tested. And the amount you used, sq. inches, offset any benefits it could provide. Sorbo recommends a 25% compression to be effective. Plenty of engineering to reference with Sorbo, I can't find anything with the other materials used....
I really appreciate the video and the shared results. I did learn from the video, it was well presented.
+Rich West Great info regarding sorbo compression. Hadn't even thought about that. I think this test needs to be revisited soon. Thanks for sharing and appreciate the feedback.
Hi there, I think I am about to buy some Moongel for my DJI F550 and my brushless gimbal.
Do you know whether the moongel is most effective when it is tightly compressed, or when it's loosely fitted (my gimbal holds the GoPro between a top and bottom plate and I was thinking I could squeeze some moongel in between each plate and then tighten the screws to hold the GoPro in place and am wondering how tight the screws should be to get the best out of the moongel.
No, I haven't. Will look into that. Thanks for the loveseat tip. Great name :)
Any update about vibration dampening?
Nice work, but did you ever compare the earplug with and without the rubber band? It seems that would be even better. Something I've been experimenting with is making my own gel pads molding them from melted silicone fishing lures. Those can be melted at about 325 degrees, recast to make pads as thick as you want and one can even embed washers in them for more secure attachment to the frame. They're also cheap, are often on sale and come in lots of colors. There is a number of videos about the simple process no more complicated than cooking.
Please make a comparision vid with the dampening system from RCtestflight. Thank you
Wow....thanks for the tip. I just saw the wire vibration dampener. Looks pretty solid. I'll give that a try and share my results.
hi! great video! could you kindly say me the name of the app that you are using please??
I have found that 3m tape and velcro would very well
Good to know. Thanks for sharing that tip.
what iPhone app do you use to record the vibration ?
Great vid!!
What app did you use on your phone?
Thanks for the feedback. Check this:
itunes.apple.com/us/app/seismometer-6th/id362472189?mt=8
Just a fyi if you have wrecked the quad and can not get vibration gone check the motors they can be bent or out of balance. I had no vibration on my quad then I wrecked it twice due to low battery and no matter what I do I can not get the vibration gone. I have now decided it is the motor that is out of balance/ bent shaft and that fixed it.
No matter how much I change the P ID settings it just ossilates considerably thoughts possibly flex in the arms...suggestions?
Thank you
No problem. Thanks for watching.
It's hard to tell, but what does your frame look like? Maybe you can tell me the name of the frame and I can Google it. Also, what do your PID settings look like?
Can you update the link for moongel? It is broken and I would like to buy some. What do you think about using a combination of materials if space is not an issue. I am using a DJI phantom and want to design a vibration dampening gopro mount.
Hi Ryan, thanks for pointing that out. Here is where you can get some Moongel:
amzn.to/198RdU4
I've seen a few guys that have used multiple materials to make a mount. My recommendation is to try one at a time and then build on that. Just so you don't end up with a glob of materials and not much dampening :)
Best of luck with your design.
Its one of these... (Ebay) w HJ X-450 MWC X-Mode Alien Multicopter Quadcopter Frame Kit
PID settings P80 PL70 I25 IL30
I had this setup on my X525 flying perfectly with gopro and 2x 2650 4S 16min flight times
I switched over to spider quad and I get fast oscillations with all kinds of PID adjustments. Im thinking the cheap, ABS plastic, DJI Flamewheel arms might be the issue.They do seem to flex more than the X525 frame. I also considered the balance of the frame might be the issue.
Do you have your KK2 isolated from the frame with any vibration material? I read in your comment above that you're using MoonGel, but was uncertain if you're talking about using it beneath your KK2. Also, it may be easier to work through this on garagepilots . com. It's a community for multirotor enthusiasts and there are lots of guys that could shed light on your problem. I know one guy has a Spider quad from Value Hobby. Not sure if it's the same as yours, but maybe he can help.
I wonder if the "cheap" sticky pads on eBay (for holding cell phone to the dashboard of your car) offer any reduction in vibration... if anyone's tried I'd be interested in hearing the update.
Great statistical analysis video. Have you considered trying memory foam? I would be curious to see the results using memory foam...
Good suggestion. I'm not sure if you can get it in small enough sizes and was led to believe that the foam earplugs were fairly similar, but it would be great to get a hold of some. I'll see what I can find out. Thanks.
Nice video, thanks for posting. I started using the Zeal Gel myself, a couple of weeks ago, and I was pretty disappointed. I read on the 3DR website that it is the best single solution to get rid of vibrations there is... I guess they are wrong, ha ha. Anyhow, I would like to know what app you used on your iPhone to measure the vibes and how you made the EXCEL sheet. Did you have to enter all the data by hand or were you able to transfer it from the app?! Thanks, G. EDIT. I would have thought that using a rubber band pretty much makes the whole test useless, but I guess not. The Moongel is not "self-sticky" or is it?!
***** This is the app I used: itunes.apple.com/us/app/seismometer-6th/id362472189?mt=8
The Moongel is sticky but nothing like Zeal. You'll still need something to secure whatever you're putting on top of the Moongel.
i found my answer to the sample frequency question.
How did you dampened the DJI Naza M Lite? Do you even need to damp it? (inner damping)
Tschöppelimunggi I ended up using some Kyosho Zeal because it's sticky on both sides and keeps the NAZA nice and secure.
I read that you are using Kyosho Zeal for your Naza. Did you choose that over the. MoonGel because it is more sticky? Since this video post, did you find something better for your flight controller?
Jason Campbell I've really enjoyed the Kyosho Zeal because of how sticky it is. I'm still using it for all my flight controllers as it works and holds really well.
Ok Dennis. I'm doing a rebuild of my F550, and will use the Zeal to help with residual vibration. Thanks for the reply.
Unfortunately I don't know the frequency of the app because you have a slider between low and high. I keep it about mid way. I studied FFTs in college, but it's been a long time since I've touched them. Maybe it's time to crack open the text books again :) Thx.
Hello, can i usw the Moongel for mounte my Flightcontrol?
Yes, just make sure that you keep the moongel even beneath your flight controller. Moongel is very soft and can if you put too much pressure on one side it could cause your FC to get out of balance.