I Was Wrong About The Tone Master Pro!
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
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Thanks for watching my video on why I was wrong about the Fender Tone Master Pro! Let me know your thoughts in the comments below! Cheers!
Folks, for the record: Fender did not pay me a dime for this video nor were they even aware that I was going to release this video!
Fender TMP vs Orange Rockerverb and Soldano:
• Is The Tone Master FIN...
New TMP vs EVH comparison:
• EVH vs Modelers AGAIN!...
Mesa Rectifier vs Modelers:
• EVH vs Modelers AGAIN!...
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Disclaimer: this video is not sponsored although I did get the TMP from Fender to use on the channel but as always all thoughts and opinions are 100% my own!
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Unfortunately a lot of RUclipsrs DO find it fun and “lucrative” to endlessly rag on a product , the fact that you are humble, honest and use integrity sets you in a class above
Is that true though? RUclipsrs bend over backwards not to rag on products to retain the brand relationships.
If it hadn’t been for the channels that spoke up to say the product was a bit rubbish, then we wouldn’t be seeing these updates
@fastboy_guitars in the end being critical in a constructive way is important! Like you said, this will make companies aware that there are issues we want fixed
@@fastboy_guitars agreed
RUclipsrs like Jon that point out a products pros and cons in a fair unbiased way is greatly beneficial to the audience and the companies that need the feedback
Some however just smear and ridicule in order to inflame emotions and get clicks There’s a Big difference
A company like Fender should never be satisfied with a mediocre product, especially at that price point. Good to see them continuing to improve and up their game, of course Kemper and Quad Cortex both started out with drawbacks as well and software has made both of those units vastly better over time (Kemper reverbs went from extremely mediocre to some of the best in the game, for example).
Inappropriate for Fender to lean on influencers to conduct comparisons they should have done in house before release. Thank you for your honest efforts.
I'm always open to be a consultant and/or beta tester for these companies if they so desire... I wish they'd ask us more before a product gets released
All companies are doing it now.
They should have just made sure it didn’t have all the issues that made it sound like garbage before they released it. Not the fault of any youtubers
@@dansomerville I definitely agree but corporations have been rushing incomplete products to the shelves for decades now. The more tech based things are the more this will happen! Can’t do that with analog products - companies can’t rely on software updates. But just recently I boxed up all of my analog stuff and did buy a TMP. Just convenient! I’m 50 and play for fun, nothing professional. Tired of a million patch cables and swapping pedals in and out. A friend of mine did the same thing years ago and recently went back to pedals. So I guess its a “pick your poison “ scenario as anything else. If I ever decided to write and record my own music then the analog stuff will come back out.
Hi John! I'm considering getting a ENGL Fireball 25 for silent recording purposes (Speaker Off on Power Soak). Is there an obvious benefit tonewise from the power amp using the amp like this? Or do the Power Soak negates all the "power amp tube warmth", making it pretty much the same thing as getting the signal from the FX Loop Send? I was hoping to use it as a power amp tone platform between my preamp pedals and the IR loader. Thanks!
The load is resistive and not reactive AFAIK so it won't sound as good as going into a good reactive load but it's still a great feature!
appreciate the update and like the fact that you gave it another shot!!
You the Man! Always great reviews! Thanks!
Your videos and approach have always been great.
Were you using the Helix when it came out? I think the Fractal was solid day one and a few were for the Helix as well but the Helix is so much more amazing today than it was even 4 years ago. I would expect the same from Fender and very glad to see that is the case! Thank you for these update, I sold my Helix a few years ago because I wasn't using it but looking to get another sometime soon and the TM is one of the top on my list at the moment.
How would you rate or rank the units now? Curious
Would it be possible to show the old EVH(if you have it recorded) vs updated EVH software and compare to the real amp? Also Orange comparison if possible. Thanks
Fwiw, I did various comparisons of the EVH models to my real amps and you can hear the new Orange model in a recent video too. Links in the description
Jon, I always look to your channel for good demos. Some of the best representations of gear out there. Different styles, plenty of clean vs driven sounds. Someone else that likes tubes, solid state, and digital, which I think opens the doors to getting a winning sound no matter which tech you use. Also the things like this, where you give updates if something that didn’t get the best sounds suddenly gets an update which improves it enough to look at it again. You have enough amps to tell us if it sounds like the real deal or not. I had to do that myself with some amps. I always had the nagging doubt about whether something sounds like the original amp, until I bought the real amp (or trusted clone of the amp), then I could erase that nagging doubt and feel confident I’m getting the real sounds. Fender is really doing some great things to bring people over to their products. The ToneMaster Pro, the TM full amps (I think those will have a better chance of bringing over those that are on the fence about modeling, but don’t want something that looks very different with a lot of editable options that may intimidate them, and can look at it and dial it in like their regular tube combo), great reissues in tube amps too. I like that they actively participate on forums and listen to their customers. Thanks for the updated info! A favorite channel for sure.
Thanks!
Thanks for the info. So far i did not try a Tonemaster Pro...but this can be a killer unit when the models sound right. How about the Recto after the update? It does have a Recto right?
Cheerz :)
You can hear the Recto in my recent comparisons. Sounds very good!
I really respect the fact that you were willing to revisit and amend your initial findings. Most YT folks in this space would never. Looking forward to more stuff!
Hey man! Great video! By the way, I like the way you make your videos, not sound scripted at all, love your channel!
Thank you, I appreciate it!
Did you feel any improvement in the latency?
Big bro, what are those pedals on top of your Red Seven amp?
Lichtlaerm Audio! Amazing stuff!
Are there expression pedals available for it?
Have the TMP and have owned others, also real amps. The TMP, IMO, sounds the most ‘real’. I’m thinking it mostly because of the processing power. Helix, HX, Tonex, et al can sound harsh and more ‘digital’. Everyone is getting better, but TMP IMO sounds most real.
I decided to sell a Marshall Silver Jubilee and Mesa Rectifier. Just to take a plunge on this (and associated items). I was just like you after playing around with this, a nagging disappointment especially trying live at practice etc. Although with the updates and your insights on tweaks and IRs I've been able to make great studio and live tones which blow people away. I'm much happier using the unit and like you, with the jumps forward really excited knowing there's still more to come
Thats great to hear! Do they have a workflow that matches Helix/Helix Native yet? That has been a game changer for me to be able to work on tones from the couch with a reference track and make changes at a gig and save it to my laptop. As much as I would love to have more DSP I can't imagine using anything else until someone else can match that workflow.
I find it refreshing to see a company listen to constructive criticism and directly address issues. I also find your transparency here about being able to change your view when new information is presented fantastic! Bravo man!
Much appreciated man! Thanks
I own a simple Ampero 2 and they also took a while to update, but I feel like the last update brought the unit back into the game. This is a standard in the effects industry.
I have the Ampero Stage 2 and other players are always impressed with how it sounds, even the Fractal guys
I always enjoy your presentations. I have barely scratched the surface on using my TMP. I am glad I picked a winner. I had the QC but I got frustrated with how it worked and the way Neural was doing things.
Thanks! As of right now, most of the platforms available to us are great! I also really love the Quad Cortex though...
@@SonicDriveStudio Yes, I liked the sounds I got from the QC. I had issues with WIFI, connecting to my computer as an Audio Interface as well. I am not a pro and I find the TMP with its interface is just well suited to me and my simple needs. One thing I do misss is being able to get captures from Amalgam, Tone Junkie, and Worship Tutorials. That is a big bonus for the units that do captures.
So would you still choose the QC over the TMP? Im on the fence on which one i should get. Should i just get thr QC since its been out longer? Nice review too mate 🔥
Even though I really like the TMP, for my personal use I'd choose the QC over it because of the capture tech. I love my captures. Luckily I don't need to choose and I can use them all haha!
@@SonicDriveStudio Impressive. Thx for the fast response 🔥 I agree. I'm going to go with the QC on this one. I love the design of the QC better too. Thx again mate 🔥
Take a look at the Ampero stage 2. I had a fractal fm9 and the QC. I'm proudly using the Ampero it sounds great live and in studio. I'm using ML sound labs reflex IR's
Good on you to revisit this and revise your opinion based on how the TMP is now. Among those commenting, however, are many who appear to be in Moaning Mode about the TMP not having been „ready“ enough upon release. Jeez - that one is getting soooo stale, don‘t you think? Not a single modeler out there was great and/or perfect upon release, and many didn‘t grace their users with big updates soon after release to fix issues and add major enhancements. Nobody is forced to be an early adopter, and patience sometimes pays off. I, for one, bought the TMP very soon after release, and for me, the fine selection of clean (!), Fender amps was precisely what I wanted - no need for the EVH and stuff. Different strokes, folks. And now Fender have added a few new and improved models and effects, plus a mobile app for full control of the unit without a PC or bending down. Among the new models is a Fender Deluxe Blonde that knocks my socks off!!! Oh, and I should add that those critical of the sounds of this unit may not have taken the trouble to set their high- and low-cut filters to typical electric-guitar settings. Sometimes that‘s all it takes to turn „meh“ into „wow“ on this unit. And yes: Fender is listening! Join the great FB group and you‘ll find a whole community of folks who actually talk with each other respectfully (for the most part) and help Fender improve, with a couple of Fender guys contributing and responding regularly. I‘m loving my TMP, and wouldn‘t ever want to have to deal with the interfaces of its main competitors.
I get your sentiment. I do want to offer this perspective though: by being critical of shortcomings in a product we make companies aware that things need to be improved upon. In this case Fender went in and worked on things because of our complaints. So it often can lead to good things if we make brands aware of certain shortcomings.
@@SonicDriveStudio Yes, this is of course legit. I was among those providing constructive criticism from the start, and it‘s great to know that many issues I and other raised were subsequently addressed. This gives the user base added confidence for the road ahead. :-)
Looks like someone had a call from a lawyer lollll
Hahahahaha! Not that I know
Yeah. I'm not buying it.
Rubbish. Fender had absolutely no influence on this video whatsoever nor did any sort of "legal representative". I made this video 100% out of my own initiative
I was in the same boat. I actually bought this thing three times to give it a fair shake. The first two times I think I had faulty units or thought I did. But when I got the third one, I realized that it just sounded like a bunch of sterile noise. I would definitely try one again, but I am not buying another one. If Fender wants to send me one, I’d be happy to take it on the road and give my thoughts. Good on you for giving it another shot.
Meanwhile the check from Fender arrived...
Lol, nope!
Meanwhile you still a jackass
Nah, they pay him in Tone Master Pros.
How high would you rank it now against other modelers?
Good question! Is it better than the FM9, Helix and Quad Cortex? When you look at the units as a whole I wouldn't rank it higher because I love those 3 units a lot personally. However, it's not far behind so I'd provably put it right under them. And that is pretty good I'd say! Things will change and evolve once more firmware updates get released
TMP is the future.. Jason Stillwell and Max Gutnik are SUPER active in the FB group and really listen to their customers. It's nice to have the guys who designed and built it to be at your beck and call when needed. . . When they finally introduce capturing, that's game over for the HX
I’m not holding my breath for capturing
Have you heard any whispers about capturing being included? Far out that would be unreal.
hey! what's the FB group called? I'd like to join and see if I can connect with some people and exchange patches. thank you!
@@NotoriousEDC there’s two.. just search for Tone Master Pro and it’s the top 2.. they’re active in both
Fender has the bankroll to make things like this even better going forward . I would say Marshall will have one coming soon.
Why didn’t you play a few quick examples of the upgraded sounds?
I already did that in all my other videos
Great video! Still would love to see a tone matching video of trying to tone match the real PRS MT 15 with one of the amps in the TMP. Not sure if it would be possible but I am pretty sure if anyone could do it, you could :)
If they add capture tech it would be easy :)
Unless there's been major changes to the software since, the disappointing aspect of TMP is similar to the QC and HR, that variably modulatable parameters cannot be assigned to either switches or MIDI controllers for variable modulation.
Which modeler has the least latency according to you ?
The best person to answer that question would be Leo Gibson
I was going to say I’ll take it on my channel😂
How does it rank now on your list?
Around number 4 or so, which is not bad considering the competition!
Another happy owner of the TMP. It’s getting better in every update 😊
It seems to be a common trend these days for companies to release things before they're really completed and then fix issues after the fact. It's why I never buy anything on release day anymore.
Very interesting and valid points you've made, Jon. It's refreshing to see companies willing to correct mistakes. The TMP is a pretty neat device and will only get better!
Thanks Ian!
maybe they will add a capture module in this unit that would really take it to another level! IMO
one would imagine that a company is large as fender would have the financial backing for better than average r&d and that a product such as this would eventually surpass something like fractal in functionality, sound quality, and basic bang for buck. realistically fender just got into the modeling game recently in comparison to most of these other companies and so I can see they’re being some issues right out of the gate, but they should be able to fix this quickly if they’re dedicated to having a good product. unfortunately, I have not had the privilege of using this piece of gear yet, before or after the updates so I have no idea on what it sounds like, but I have faith. These guys will get it straightened out and it sounds like they’re already going in the right direction. One thing that I can definitely say, Fender has always made some pretty good solid reliable products. So hopefully this follows suit.
I'd like to clue you in to this new dark horse competitor in the modeling game, the low-budget "Tank-G" being sold under various throw-away brand names such as M-Vave, Cuvave, Playwell, as it is a Chinese OEM product. It has decent amp models and effects, a built-in I.R. loader, and they recently rolled out new software to record captures / profiles of your own amps to upload to the unit, so it is now a competitor to ToneX and the like! The Brazilians have even figured out how to use Neural Amp Modeler trained models on the device, although there are no videos on that in English as of yet I believe. I hope to see you and many others explore this in detail in the future! Anyways, keep on Rocking everyone! \m/
congratulations for the honest
I think modellers are slowly teaching guitarists writ large that it’s about the hardware and the processing power, and not about the firmware. Helix then vs Helix now are totally different animals, and hopefully in a few years this pedal will be an institution. I love my TMP it’s a beast. Run it direct at shows, use it as a stand in suite of different pedalboards, and as an interface for recording. It’s an awesome piece of kit that’s changed my whole workflow as a guitarist.
PS: rad channel man!
The screen and menus look awesome. I bought a pod go and how the menu works is such a turn off to me. I probably have only used it a few times
awesome device...but the size changed my mind
Hey John, just letting you know that you were wrong about the features of the Hotone Ampero II stage. It does let you change the parameter values between different scenes. Simply go to a scene, change a parameter, and save it. It's had this feature since launch and is explained the in the manual as well as other videos on youtube (ie, brett kingman)
Yes I know. I was made aware
When that Fender check finally arrives in the mail
I wish, not the case AT ALL. Would have been great though ;) Or do you mean that you got a cheque from them for being a cool kid?
The TMP is just an overall great product man, sorry for you :)
Maybe in a few years it will sound like a real amp !! /s
You weren't wrong, they just improved it. Our opinions will always have some subjectivity but to say you were wrong isn't fair to yourself. I agreed with your initial assessment and am glad to see them taking it seriously and rolling out updates. At that price point you'd hope they were doing so.
As explained, I was wrong about where I placed the TMP in my recent ranking. That's basically what this is about. I had good reason for being critical, if we weren't critical perhaps Fender wouldn't have been so quick to fix some things
@@SonicDriveStudio fair enough. guess we need another ranking video! :)
@misterringer haha eventually I'll do that of course ;)
It's not about being just like the other Amps......Or sounding just like EVH.......It's about being a working musician and not having to drag a bunch of amps to a show......and writing hit songs.....
Well, that's subjective
Firmware updates are cool, but kinda bummer that companies don't fully test their products before putting them for sale.
That's a very valid point and definitely some food for thought. Worth discussing!
Unfortunately you’re right and I think there might be multiple reasons behind it, speed to market pressure, talent acquisition challenges, internal and external conditions affecting product & program management, corporate culture, digital adoption, Software Delivery Lifecycle which may have to be adjusted for an offering like this (compared to their existing amp modeling offers), cost, etc so it’s a crazy balancing act.
I’m glad they are doing the right thing by improving their product. Hopefully the firmware road map will not end in a year or two when they introduce a new Tone Master Pro with limited hardware improvements cannibalizing their own products sales.
I call it the Microsoft solution, product almost ready… sell it and we’ll fix it in post.
????
I totally agree...😢
Well they certainly paid the price for it this past year
Based on the first two videos I found covering it, I'd written it off. A poor launch can kill a product because the bad reviews and videos which make the product look bad stick around and potential customers see them not knowing the issues have since been addressed (unless they stumble across an update video like this one).
Fender need to do everything they can to get the word out that there was an issue and it has been fixed. They should consider reaching out to the channels which have already covered it so they can make follow up videos. The more videos out there showing it working as it should to increase the likelihood potential customers will see it post fix, the better for Fender.
I get that, heck I almost had written it off until I tried the latest updates. Luckily they're working hard on improving the unit
The reason that I watch your videos is because you make the best tone recordings of 7 and 8 strings bar none. I am always "sad" when you dont whip out your 7 and 8 strings.
I'll keep it in mind for my next review! ;)
@@SonicDriveStudio thanks John, and btw. I never thought you came across as unrelatable or too stiff or any of that, to me you just always presented great recordings of great gear with authority. An authority that grows recording after recording based on results. Stay well!
@musicsurfandrats I appreciate it! It's more a feeling that I have myself. Also, it's easier and more relaxed this way so I'm just looking to improve my workflow :)
Great video Jon. I haven’t watched your video with Henning yet but will sometime this week.
Cheers from NZ 😎🎸🤘
Thanks! The HP42 video is a fun one!
Your videos were/are fine, informative, good tests. Your headline is wrong. You were not wrong about the Tonemaster Pro. You were 100% correct at the time.
I'm fine with you taking Henning's advice, just no cat shirts.
I don't like cats so we're good
you was not wrong about that the old software really sound not good. so see if new software is better
That is true! I definitely had trouble with the old firmwares
The only thing I need from a modeller for metal is a GREAT model of the original EVH 5150 III 6L6 50 watt blue channel. The stealth doesn't do it for me, the 100 watt blue channel just isn't the same, the EL34 ruins the blue channel. The only one that really has it is the FM3/FM9/Axe FX3 but their UI experience is just so sucky that I need a good model from QC/Tonemaster/Helix etc.
The only one of those that doesn't yet have a good EVH model is the Helix
@@SonicDriveStudio I have a QC and I just don't like the 100 watt blue channel on it. The Tonemaster is also a stealth model, which changes that blue channel a fair bit.
It might be because I'm running my QC live direct to a cab via a Fryette Power Station, but it just doesn't sound the same as the real amp. I'll need to buy another EVH and do a capture I think.
I'm being super nitpicky, but it's the sound I like 😀
@neighbourhoodmusician I totally understand! One thing to try with the Stealth models is crank the presence control up just under 100
You weren’t wrong, Fender updated it largely from the feedback from you and other users. If anyone was wrong, it was Fender and they fixed it.
Yeah, I just was wrong about where I placed it in my ranking. Now I would have put it higher on that list
Hey Jon! Respectfully, YOU’RE WRONG to have titled this video “I Was Wrong..”, because you were right, at that point in time, right? Anyhoo… Henning’s advice to be ‘more you’ sounds great - just keep being you, cuz you ROCK man! Oh yeah.. “IMPEDANCE CURVES!” ;)
Is super close,close enough.
Pretty much all modellers have improved through time. Line 6 and Fractal do it in order to keep up even when the original release was good enough, others like Neural or Fender came out with something so and so and now are slowly but surely bringing it up to it's full potential. Still this doesn't fix my main gripe with the Tonemaster Pro which is: did we really need it? While it's cool to see the makers of some of the most sought after original "do it properly" I still feel that, as a unit, it doesn't bring anything really the others can't do. It doesn't sound good like the Axe FX, the FX are kind of dull and the interface not so easy to use as the Helix and it doesn't feature profiling like the Cortex, Tonex and Kemper. While I tried it it was ok, but not 1600€ ok and even watching other youtube reviews being kind to it, it felt like it's killer feature was seamless preset switching. Yeah, that's cool but Snapshots, Scenes or whatever do a similar job with minimal effort. Maybe with future updates it will find it's footing, but so far I don't feel it deserves to be that expensive or in the same league of other similarly priced units
You bring up some fair points. However, I do think that some of the amp models (haven't tried them all since the updates) sound just as good as the competition. It was surprising but definitely a pleasant surprise. In the end I do think there's a market for this product because people seem to really like the interface but Fender is going to have to keep coming out with new FW updates. Hopefully more frequent!
This product had a bad start and nobody is using it so far... Fender will have a hard time to avoid it to flop I guess
sounds like they released the unit before it was finished so the paying customers could beta test it for them. not something i can support.
Dude! I love your content! Stay with the script! Who cares? :D
So your headline was misleading then ? Not trying too bust your balls as it sounds like hope for the Fender pedal but all these modelers depending on updates too sound decent out of the box makes me shake my head lol I have a Zoom g5 and a vox tonelable that's 2010 and honestly there has been no hold up with sound from the time it was released other than updates for Autosave or extras !So I'm not getting the excitement from any of these new Modelers from 2016 and up its like the modeling world went backwards and spending 5 or 7 times more waiting for it too update too get closer but not fully satisfactory lol! At least with these older units I'm not playing tune in Tokyo lol
It's not misleading. I was wrong about my placement of the TMP in the recent modeler ranking and this video was made to basically "correct" that
You were. But the firmware update made it better.
Yeah the Firmwares made all the difference! I was wrong about the position in my ranking, in hindsight. That's why I wanted to make this video
@SonicDriveStudio I get it. I came close to buyer's remorse as well. I just kept farting with it.
Have a great one. Good channel bro.
I was wong about drugs
No sound exemples ? Disappointing
There are many on the channel
@@SonicDriveStudio you ranked recently… so i understand there is no sound example of the improved version of the tone master on Youri channel since you did not include any in this video. Have i understood right ?
@alibaba4848 I did videos on the improvements and new amp models. Some links can be found in the description
Hmmmmm.....
Hungry?
@@SonicDriveStudio nope, that's just doubt.
So you weren’t “wrong”, the product was incomplete. That’s still on Fender, and I am still viewing the TMP as a no-buy. Also, say “product” one more time - I dare you
Product
You're the one missing out on one the best modelers on the market . Once fender adds capture it will be the best one .
The Tonemaster Pro is great if you want really good Fender amp models, but not for other amp models like Marshall or Mesa. I get that they have had many, many years perfecting the Fender amp models, but the Marshall and Mesa amps still could be better IMO.
The Rectifier model sounds super close now, fwiw
Then you've not used it because it's got plenty of high gain amps that are dead nuts .
Too big
My videos are unscripted, but I am an unfluencer.
Sometimes I write down notes so that I don't forget stuff that I want to say. I'm trying to do less of that and be more relaxed. That has nothing to do with being an "influencer". If you're against people who review gear, go to a store and try it for yourself. Or maybe watch videos from multiple channels and then make up your own mind. It's not that hard
@@SonicDriveStudio no offense intended, just be you. I watch lots of stuff ( only fun stuff from fun people) I’m always interested on others opinions and ideas on a variety of things.
Have a great week Sir, again no offense intended.
Thanks for clearing that up! All I can do is try to be the best version of myself. Appreciate you listening
@@SonicDriveStudio thanks for all the great content, and curating such a beautiful amp wall 🤤
Haha thanks! Now I have to learn how to maintain amps