Thank you for posting this video Izzyflys! Great landing and control! • Cessna 172 Landing in ... Want personal training? Email me at cfimunden@gmail.com
I believe the gust factor her would be 13 knots instead of 33, so you would add about 7 knots to your final approach speed instead of 18. Correct me if I am wrong but I understood it that you subtract the gust from the winds, in this case 33-20=13 knots of gust factor
Sorry, yes! You are correct thank you for clarifying that for me! Pinning this comment. Gust factor is 13 then you cut that in half and add it to your approach speed.
Probably not on the landing. Gusting is not continuous. However, it looks like between 15-20 knots. Nice job. Yes i add half the gust factor to ref up to 70 knots. In a 182 and 206 up to 75. No more than 20 deg. flaps.
He did a good job with the side slip technique to counter drift with constant bank and keep the centerline between his legs/instructors legs with dynamic proactive rudder movement. He had enough rudder for the crosswind component of the 19 and was not moved too much by the gusts to 33. Yes, doable...done. I use and teach full flaps and I think he did as well. Notice that the apparent rate of closure with the numbers does not speed up much and he doesn't hold off long. Headwind component of the crosswind is a free ground speed reduction gift from God, If we don't add half the gust spread or anything. Dynamic throttle will handle gust spread. My default short final approach in strong crosswind is the same as any other approach except for the angle across the wide runway from exact downwind corner to the upwind thousand feet strip. At a quarter mile out with full flaps I want to be decelerated from 1.3 Vso enough to sink good enough to require considerable dynamic throttle to nail/bracket the glide angle and rate of descent all the way to touchdown slowly and softly on the exact downwind corner. I hold this made up new centerline with dynamic proactive rudder. Coming into high ground effect, I will still be too fast unless I watch the desired (got to) touchdown spot and use elevator to decelerate more to prevent the apparent speed up of that spot toward me. Here is where we actually perhaps go behind the power curve and below Vso in a no wind condition. Here is why we don't in and don't want extra airspeed for the gus and spread. I have landed the 172 at 10 MPH ground speed but 45 airspeed in a 35 mph crosswind component. Understand that with a 45 degree crosswind, the crosswind component is 22.5 and headwind component is 22.5. Also we have to divide the 35 mph except I experience that it still helps ground speed more fully. We still bank for drift and walk the rudder for the new centerline and work the dynamic throttle for exact glide angle. And understand that you will be light with no ground speed and still quiet a bit of airspeed. Taxi is a real problem in a TW Airplane. In a Comanche or Bananza we may have to turn on down the upwind side of the runway, but ground speed will be slow for this turn.
Thanks for Followup Vid, One thing I will say the GoPro Stabilization Dramatically reduces the amount of bump and stuff we see the rudder was Pinned to the firewall the entire approach, there is a more full video on my page aswell of this exact video
One of my first night flights with my cfi, we had a 22kt direct crosswind from the left and no matter how much left wing down, right rudder I put in I kept getting pushed very far to the right. The field that I learned at is 2500ft and 49 ft wide, with only 2000 usable for landing because of displaced thresholds, so getting pushed damn near a quarter of a mile right is a big no no and it being at night was stressful. I think we did 6 go arounds before I gave up and gave the controls fully to him. He handled it like a boss, which you can expect from an ex Navy s3 pilot. So 33kts is very false.
I also take gust factor divide it in half and add that to my approach when it’s gusty. And I also agree that this was not even close to a 33kt direct x wind. Still took a lot of skill to land. And tbh if I was him I would have no shame in saying it was a 33kt direct x wind. Because that’s what was reported. I just think the danger here may be that he ups his personal minimums to 30kt x winds and when that time comes when he encounters a “real” 30kt x wind he might be out of his abilities. But again he did a great job! Love the vids btw!
It's not a 33 knot xwind. Gusts might have reached 33, but not at every moment or during this approach. 20 for the steady factor, certainly. Brilliant landing for such a low time pilot. Very nice
So if it is 20 gusting 33. The gust factor would be 13 (33-20). Then take half of that and add it. So if the approach speed is lets say 70 knots, you would increase it to 77 approximately. Personally I do add that gust factor if its above 5 knots
For 33 knots , I would have expected to see a lot of more crabbing More like 14 or something like that in my experience Inland with 10 flaps and just use more strip
737 pilot here. VAPP is VREF+5. For wind correction half steady wind above 10kts and the total diference between the steady wind and gust up to a maximun of VREF+15. I don't remember what the POH of the 172 said.
As far as direct crosswind goes, that looked more like 10-15. There is absolutely no way that was 33kts direct crosswind. He would have needed landing gear on the wingtips to keep that nose pointed down the runway like he had it.
He is using the side slide technique. He has the left wing down enough to counter drift from the crosswind component, which is less than the full 33 gust spread and 19 crosswind component. The rudder holds the centerline between his, and the instructors, legs. Even with the crab technique, we have to change to the side slip technique before touching down without longitudinal alignment (still in a crab.). Kicking/yawing into alignment with the wing still level will not stop drift and side load on the gear.
Clickbait! So much of it on u-tube. He can argue all day long but that was no where near 30knt direct crosswind. Nice steady maybe 15 or so and probably were reports of possible 30knt gusts and he got lucky and didn't catch a gust. I take 20 steady all day long over 10 gust. Those unpredictable gust are what gets us in trouble. This dude is just lying for clicks on the net. A 172 at gross would be all over the place in 30knt gusts. I call BS!
I believe the gust factor her would be 13 knots instead of 33, so you would add about 7 knots to your final approach speed instead of 18. Correct me if I am wrong but I understood it that you subtract the gust from the winds, in this case 33-20=13 knots of gust factor
Sorry, yes! You are correct thank you for clarifying that for me! Pinning this comment. Gust factor is 13 then you cut that in half and add it to your approach speed.
@@CFIIMunden we used half the steady state and all of the gust in the airlines.
The wind may be gusting to 33, however the crosswind component definitely was not 33. probably 12 - 16 knot XWC with the rest being headwind.
Exactly. His video is a bit misleading. He COULD have had 33kt gust during his landing and flair, but he luckily didn't.
Probably not on the landing. Gusting is not continuous. However, it looks like between 15-20 knots. Nice job. Yes i add half the gust factor to ref up to 70 knots. In a 182 and 206 up to 75. No more than 20 deg. flaps.
He did a good job with the side slip technique to counter drift with constant bank and keep the centerline between his legs/instructors legs with dynamic proactive rudder movement. He had enough rudder for the crosswind component of the 19 and was not moved too much by the gusts to 33. Yes, doable...done.
I use and teach full flaps and I think he did as well. Notice that the apparent rate of closure with the numbers does not speed up much and he doesn't hold off long. Headwind component of the crosswind is a free ground speed reduction gift from God, If we don't add half the gust spread or anything. Dynamic throttle will handle gust spread.
My default short final approach in strong crosswind is the same as any other approach except for the angle across the wide runway from exact downwind corner to the upwind thousand feet strip. At a quarter mile out with full flaps I want to be decelerated from 1.3 Vso enough to sink good enough to require considerable dynamic throttle to nail/bracket the glide angle and rate of descent all the way to touchdown slowly and softly on the exact downwind corner. I hold this made up new centerline with dynamic proactive rudder. Coming into high ground effect, I will still be too fast unless I watch the desired (got to) touchdown spot and use elevator to decelerate more to prevent the apparent speed up of that spot toward me. Here is where we actually perhaps go behind the power curve and below Vso in a no wind condition. Here is why we don't in and don't want extra airspeed for the gus and spread. I have landed the 172 at 10 MPH ground speed but 45 airspeed in a 35 mph crosswind component. Understand that with a 45 degree crosswind, the crosswind component is 22.5 and headwind component is 22.5. Also we have to divide the 35 mph except I experience that it still helps ground speed more fully.
We still bank for drift and walk the rudder for the new centerline and work the dynamic throttle for exact glide angle. And understand that you will be light with no ground speed and still quiet a bit of airspeed. Taxi is a real problem in a TW Airplane.
In a Comanche or Bananza we may have to turn on down the upwind side of the runway, but ground speed will be slow for this turn.
GUSTING 33 knots!!!!!!!!!
Gust factor for here is 13 knots, gust factor = delta between peek gusts and wind (20 - 33)
Thanks for Followup Vid, One thing I will say the GoPro Stabilization Dramatically reduces the amount of bump and stuff we see the rudder was Pinned to the firewall the entire approach, there is a more full video on my page aswell of this exact video
One of my first night flights with my cfi, we had a 22kt direct crosswind from the left and no matter how much left wing down, right rudder I put in I kept getting pushed very far to the right. The field that I learned at is 2500ft and 49 ft wide, with only 2000 usable for landing because of displaced thresholds, so getting pushed damn near a quarter of a mile right is a big no no and it being at night was stressful. I think we did 6 go arounds before I gave up and gave the controls fully to him. He handled it like a boss, which you can expect from an ex Navy s3 pilot. So 33kts is very false.
I also take gust factor divide it in half and add that to my approach when it’s gusty. And I also agree that this was not even close to a 33kt direct x wind. Still took a lot of skill to land. And tbh if I was him I would have no shame in saying it was a 33kt direct x wind. Because that’s what was reported.
I just think the danger here may be that he ups his personal minimums to 30kt x winds and when that time comes when he encounters a “real” 30kt x wind he might be out of his abilities. But again he did a great job! Love the vids btw!
20 gusting to 33 at 30 degrees is only 10 gusting to 16 crosswind component. Completely doable in a 172.
It's not a 33 knot xwind. Gusts might have reached 33, but not at every moment or during this approach. 20 for the steady factor, certainly. Brilliant landing for such a low time pilot. Very nice
So if it is 20 gusting 33. The gust factor would be 13 (33-20). Then take half of that and add it. So if the approach speed is lets say 70 knots, you would increase it to 77 approximately.
Personally I do add that gust factor if its above 5 knots
And SOP says: 15kts maximum. Headliner for attention, it was not 33 xwind.
For 33 knots , I would have expected to see a lot of more crabbing
More like 14 or something like that in my experience
Inland with 10 flaps and just use more strip
That's just not 33kts xwind.
Most likely WAS gusting 33, but that looked like 20 all the way to the ground (if that).
33-20=13/2=6.5. 6.5+65=71.5 knots approach speed. I like to round up to the nearest 5. I would approach at 75 with 10° flaps.
737 pilot here. VAPP is VREF+5. For wind correction half steady wind above 10kts and the total diference between the steady wind and gust up to a maximun of VREF+15.
I don't remember what the POH of the 172 said.
As far as direct crosswind goes, that looked more like 10-15. There is absolutely no way that was 33kts direct crosswind. He would have needed landing gear on the wingtips to keep that nose pointed down the runway like he had it.
15 knot demonstrated is not a limitation.
For 33 knots , I would have expected to see a lot of more crabbing
More like 14 or something like that in my experience
He is using the side slide technique. He has the left wing down enough to counter drift from the crosswind component, which is less than the full 33 gust spread and 19 crosswind component. The rudder holds the centerline between his, and the instructors, legs. Even with the crab technique, we have to change to the side slip technique before touching down without longitudinal alignment (still in a crab.). Kicking/yawing into alignment with the wing still level will not stop drift and side load on the gear.
Clickbait! So much of it on u-tube. He can argue all day long but that was no where near 30knt direct crosswind. Nice steady maybe 15 or so and probably were reports of possible 30knt gusts and he got lucky and didn't catch a gust. I take 20 steady all day long over 10 gust. Those unpredictable gust are what gets us in trouble. This dude is just lying for clicks on the net. A 172 at gross would be all over the place in 30knt gusts. I call BS!
Maybe lead with the video right away and remark that crabbing is modest and it's a non issue. Don't waste viewer time