With the Baroque and Renaissance era also came the secularization of music throughout Europe. Farmers and other workers had more opportunities to overhear melodies and styles by composers abroad, go home, and try to replicate it on their fiddles. Also protestantism incorporating colloquial melodies and native languages into church services created a recurring communal event where everyone would be inadvertently practicing and recreating these tunes together, solidifying them as local culture. Thanks for this video Emilie :)
Yeah, and the other side of the secularization of music is the control of it by commercial powers which ultimately lead to West European traditional music basically being wiped out by pop music pumped out of America, which then mutated into some of the most degenerate 'music' ever seen replacing everything (rap, hiphop etc.). So it's not the utopia 'liberal humanists' like to make out. There's a reason some rapper gets 2 million views on a new 'song' in the Anglosphere and the average modern English person doesn't even know what their own music sounded like.
Can there be some sort of evidence for the first comment? Because It sounds absurd to say that folk music didn’t exist before Christianity and how could music at home and in the village centre have always been religious music, you think it didn’t exist because it wasn’t written down? Monk were the only literate ones and they wrote down religious music, that makes sense, the idea that non religious music didn’t exist for 1200 years doesn’t
@@M_SC Is anyone claiming music didn't exist before monks wrote it down? That would be absurd, but I'm not seeing that on my end. You may be confusing music made by people with the term "folk music". "Folk music" is a specific genre/style label given to music made by peasants - this term was fashioned by nationalist ideologues and political theorists of the 18th century like Herder who believed the true essence of a nation was found in the expression of the "folk". Thus, folk music became a way to cultivate a music style bred specifically out of peasant cultures from the 18th century onwards. When Emilie talks about Swedish folk music, she's not talking about general music made by swedish people since time began, but rather this swedish folk "tradition" which has been self-consciously cultivated over the last few centuries. Of course, the idea of what folk music is has developed a lot since Herder, but if we're talking about "traditional swedish music", we are explicitly talking about a music style cultivated from the 1700s onward, rather than general music made in Sweden back to the stone age. If you *do* want to talk about ancient music of Scandinavia, you're in luck - that's quite literally my field of expertise as an ethnomusicologist ;)
You play so beautifully. Thank you for sharing your musical historical knowledge too. It is very interesting how many connections there are in the different types of music.
Toco la guitarra criolla, pero soy un aficionado. Eres una excelente maestra, entendi perfectamente la diferencia entre folklórico y barroco. Feliz por el crecimiento de tu canal.
Your comments about not lifting the bow, keeping a constant sound, using drones and playing as loud as you can, reminds me of some recordings I heard from one of my friends, who spent the 70´s bicycling around Himmerland and Vendsyssel in northern Denmark and recording the old "spillemænd" (folk musicians). Especially a recording of Fredskov Iversen, who was a fiddler, and was taught by his grandfather, who in turn was taught by the legendary Svenske Niels, who was an immigrant from Skåne, who lived in Northern Jutland and composed many tunes. In these recordings it´s very clear that he tries to maximise the sound produced by his violin, and is constantly using more strings and playing in an almost rough manner. It´s a sound which is rarer now in modern Danish folk music, maybe because people play in ensembles or with amplification now. Back then, a musician was expected to play for a whole nights ball all by himself, projecting the sound all the way through a barn.
Exactly ! Thanks for sharing that story of your friends, it's super interesting and yes, illustrates very well how things were for musicians before amplification !
I really loved this video: very informative and fun to watch.🎉❤ I'm always try to figure out ways to translate ornamentations to the English concertina or the very recently bought button dragspel. Do you have any idea? I know you're not a fan of squeeze boxes, though. 😅
I guess the bowing techniques would be done mostly with the push-and-pull, while the fingers' ornaments would be done, well, with fingers on your instruments too =) (the Swedish trill is definitely doable !)
@26:16- Superb quality education for both, "Artists, & Non-,Musicians' (myself the later)"! 5⭐. ⚠️@ 02:39-02:44 (text on-screen displayed; [time]) is too-short to read/ by those with vision limitations. Please in future- allow on-screen texts to display for 7 seconds ⏯️
@@EmelieWaldkenI am from Germany. In 2015 I made a little round trip though the middle of Sweden. At "Gämla Linköping" I met some folk musicians one of them was Emma Hardelin from the Band "Triakel" and also "Garmarna". We had a good time there and sang the german song "Muss i denn zum Städtele hinaus" 😉👍. Im looking forward to hear more Folk-Musik at this channel.
Funny i have never really thought of it as Baroque. I have played this melody many times both in Gille and Folkdance group and pictured 1800's fancy dressed people dancing pompus with a lot of bowing and armgestures. Come to think about it, so called "slängpolska" a polska played with a regular beat but irregular bow-strokes sound a lot like baroque music. But you really gave the touch of sound in this video for it.
Also funny that i automatically lift my bow as in the Baroque style in especially slängpolskor such as Donats and 1814 but with a Folkmusic style-tempo. I have no idea why, it just want to be in the air at certain points in the melodies f.i right in between a end of a section and the early phrase. It gives the melody identity and even an extra beat, tempo push imo. And i think i got my answer in this video.
Fint foredrag! Hadde lett kommet til et auditorium for å høre på sånt. I play guitar, but I chose a similar, tentative, way to specify the difference between the baroque tunes intended for performance in a court, and a baroque tune intended for a street-performance. Because there are a lot of hints, at least sometimes, to that a lot of the baroque music, even after Bach -- that we have later come to think was completely separate from any kind of folk or street performance -- actually is just joined at the hip. It's as transparent that the Chittarone, that Kapsberger writes and plays beautiful renaissance-music on, intended for royalty and pomp -- is actually the same instrument as the Theorbo, the "vulgar" Turkish-inspired tavern and street instrument. Meaning that although modern classical musicians often treat baroque music as if it is flat and ornamental-less, only based on phrasing, with the resting notes having a scientific fractional relationship to the note-values and so on - the relationship between the street and the court is obviously a lot closer than that approach would give you. So it's interesting to hear another perspective on this that points out why this is more of a sliding transition between the one and the other, or a slang variant of the same language - than it is a different discipline or type of music altogether.
Loving your view on that, thanks for writing all this ! I agree a lot about the fact that court music and street/popular music were often way closer than we nowadays think them. Also each has borrowed from the other countless times (all these baroque pieces called "giga" or "sarabanda" and also the "fandango" in classical ballet and such... it's all from folk music !)
Very interesting video! I like how you showed the differences between baroque and folk music. I have a rather classical and Irish kind of musical background (though I’m not Irish but I really like Irish music) and I play the piano and the tin and low whistle. This is why I’d probably add Irish ornaments even to a Swedish tune but only because I’m more used to the Irish style. I probably should watch your ornament video which I will do. Keeping the melody going on the piano is possible by using the pedal I think though it’s rather a percussive instrument in that sense. On the Irish whistles it’s not that easy because I would probably have to create a continuous air stream by applying circular breathing which I never tried so far. But I heard that there are also similar instruments in Sweden. Do you know how it works with these? That would be very interesting.
Thank you for the lovely and in-depth comment ! I can relate to what you say about habits we have for playing some specific ornaments - I personally tend to play Swedish ornaments in Irish and Scottish tunes, oops ;) Yes there are folk flutes in Sweden too ! We have limited sources about HOW they were played though, so a lot of today's style is formed of educated guesses and inspiration from adjacent styles. One big difference between the Swedish folk flutes and the baroque/classical recorders is the sound of the instrument itself : the folk flutes have a lot more "air" in their sound and they project less and less clearly than the recorders. The texture of the sound is very different. Then the ornaments are also very specific, for example there is a lot of attack in each breathing. Many fiddle ornaments can also be played (or adapted) to flutes.
@@EmelieWaldken Thanks a lot for your reply! 😊 Yes, I totally agree to the breathiness of the folk flutes, that also applies to Irish whistles. I guess that the Irish ornaments originally come from playing bagpipes. You can’t interrupt the sound after every note on the bagpipes so you have to play kind of a staccato note to separate two or more notes that are repeated. I guess that these staccato notes developed into the ornaments over time. But that’s only my guess and I’m not sure about it.
@@ZengHuaXiansheng It's definitely one of the sources for flute ornaments, for sure. Probably not for all the ornaments though. Even on fiddle, when one plays Scottish music for example, some traditional ornaments are inspired from the bagpipes.
for reference, one of those swedish spelpipor that has gained some popularity (and is not just beautiful but enormous fun to play) is the härjedalspipa. wouldn't want to live without mine. and that's coming from a bagpiper (playing both french and swedish pipes)
I'm sure I heard/read somewhere that Johann Hedin 'forgot' this tune but remembered it - it's on the Live Concert In Paris record with Erik Pekkari and Pelle Bjornlert - and that's maybe how it got the name...? Wonderful video and such a lovely tune 🙂
Great video and tips as always and fun with the outfits! I immediately thought of Lisa Rydberg and Gunnar Idenstam's album 'Bach på Svenska'. Have you heard it?
@@EmelieWaldken Nice one! I will too. And I'll try out this polska on my recorder in both styles and see what works best. It could be fun to start in one and then slip into the other - a little Baroque interlude in the middle of an otherwise folk rendition, perhaps?
@@svongorsk Oh I didn't think about slowly sliding from one to the other but it should be a lot of fun ! Or yes, using a different style as a variation in the middle.
I first thought it was polka. What I am also wondering, if it has any connection to Poland, or what is the origin of the name, because for a Slavic ear it sounds exactly like "Polish"
@@EmelieWaldken Ah so? Actually I was thinking of polonaise, was just curious how this word got into Swedish almost unchanged (I guess in Polish it is written exactly so)
Interesting. I am primarily an Irish style fiddler. I am learning Swedish tunes on my Nyckleharpa. I can't help but twist the Swedish tunes toward celtic. I do so enjoy the way folk music evolves with each player. The dynamic of bow pressure and speed. Ornamentation. I miss being able to slide up or down the fingerboard on the Nyckleharpa like on a violin. As well as "baring" a chord across multiple strings with one finger. Thank you for your insights and technique demonstration.
I really like the fact that musicians have "accents" in their playing, just as one has in a learned language =) You might have a Celtic "accent" when playing Swedish tunes... I have a Swedish "accent" when I try to play Celtic tunes ^^
@nocturne7371 hmm. I love my nyckelharpa. I love the sound, the action of the keys. I am an anomaly where I live. I played for the public 2 days at a local art and music fair. Only one person knew what instrument i was playing.
Of course they were ! As many other tunes too (a quick glance at Hälsingland repertoire shows the baroque influence well). Styles of music have influenced each other all the time =)
With the Baroque and Renaissance era also came the secularization of music throughout Europe. Farmers and other workers had more opportunities to overhear melodies and styles by composers abroad, go home, and try to replicate it on their fiddles. Also protestantism incorporating colloquial melodies and native languages into church services created a recurring communal event where everyone would be inadvertently practicing and recreating these tunes together, solidifying them as local culture. Thanks for this video Emilie :)
matur suksma untuk infonya
Yeah, and the other side of the secularization of music is the control of it by commercial powers which ultimately lead to West European traditional music basically being wiped out by pop music pumped out of America, which then mutated into some of the most degenerate 'music' ever seen replacing everything (rap, hiphop etc.). So it's not the utopia 'liberal humanists' like to make out. There's a reason some rapper gets 2 million views on a new 'song' in the Anglosphere and the average modern English person doesn't even know what their own music sounded like.
@@m0rvidusm0rvidus18don’t colonise Africa if you don’t want their music influencing yours then
Can there be some sort of evidence for the first comment? Because It sounds absurd to say that folk music didn’t exist before Christianity and how could music at home and in the village centre have always been religious music, you think it didn’t exist because it wasn’t written down? Monk were the only literate ones and they wrote down religious music, that makes sense, the idea that non religious music didn’t exist for 1200 years doesn’t
@@M_SC Is anyone claiming music didn't exist before monks wrote it down? That would be absurd, but I'm not seeing that on my end.
You may be confusing music made by people with the term "folk music". "Folk music" is a specific genre/style label given to music made by peasants - this term was fashioned by nationalist ideologues and political theorists of the 18th century like Herder who believed the true essence of a nation was found in the expression of the "folk". Thus, folk music became a way to cultivate a music style bred specifically out of peasant cultures from the 18th century onwards. When Emilie talks about Swedish folk music, she's not talking about general music made by swedish people since time began, but rather this swedish folk "tradition" which has been self-consciously cultivated over the last few centuries.
Of course, the idea of what folk music is has developed a lot since Herder, but if we're talking about "traditional swedish music", we are explicitly talking about a music style cultivated from the 1700s onward, rather than general music made in Sweden back to the stone age.
If you *do* want to talk about ancient music of Scandinavia, you're in luck - that's quite literally my field of expertise as an ethnomusicologist ;)
You play so beautifully. Thank you for sharing your musical historical knowledge too. It is very interesting how many connections there are in the different types of music.
Absolutely fascinating, thank you. And brilliant English! ❤👍🎻
Stort tack för denna mycket informativa video!!! Måste titta några gånger för att absorbera allt!
Varsågod ! Haha japp jag kondenserade MYCKET ^^
This is so good! Going to play folk style on my fiddle and bouzouki. Thank for this amazing video!
Thank you, glad you found it useful !
Dankeschön 😊 das wird mein nächstes Lied auf der Fiddel 😊 auf Tagelharpa werde ich es auch probieren.
Oooh ich will gerne es auf Tagelharpa hören !
I’m very excited to go over this again and think about baroque vs. folk.
Glad to hear =)
Thank you! Now i now what i will do today ! 😀
Have fun =)
Toco la guitarra criolla, pero soy un aficionado. Eres una excelente maestra, entendi perfectamente la diferencia entre folklórico y barroco. Feliz por el crecimiento de tu canal.
Gracias !
I prefer the swedish Folk cake and will immediatly take a bit.
Thank you for the nice tune! I will learn to play this one on fiddle and mandolin....
Your comments about not lifting the bow, keeping a constant sound, using drones and playing as loud as you can, reminds me of some recordings I heard from one of my friends, who spent the 70´s bicycling around Himmerland and Vendsyssel in northern Denmark and recording the old "spillemænd" (folk musicians). Especially a recording of Fredskov Iversen, who was a fiddler, and was taught by his grandfather, who in turn was taught by the legendary Svenske Niels, who was an immigrant from Skåne, who lived in Northern Jutland and composed many tunes.
In these recordings it´s very clear that he tries to maximise the sound produced by his violin, and is constantly using more strings and playing in an almost rough manner. It´s a sound which is rarer now in modern Danish folk music, maybe because people play in ensembles or with amplification now. Back then, a musician was expected to play for a whole nights ball all by himself, projecting the sound all the way through a barn.
Exactly ! Thanks for sharing that story of your friends, it's super interesting and yes, illustrates very well how things were for musicians before amplification !
I really loved this video: very informative and fun to watch.🎉❤
I'm always try to figure out ways to translate ornamentations to the English concertina or the very recently bought button dragspel. Do you have any idea? I know you're not a fan of squeeze boxes, though. 😅
I guess the bowing techniques would be done mostly with the push-and-pull, while the fingers' ornaments would be done, well, with fingers on your instruments too =) (the Swedish trill is definitely doable !)
I've heard Johan Hedin take credit for the name quite a few times!
@26:16- Superb quality education for both, "Artists, & Non-,Musicians' (myself the later)"! 5⭐.
⚠️@ 02:39-02:44 (text on-screen displayed; [time]) is too-short to read/ by those with vision limitations. Please in future- allow on-screen texts to display for 7 seconds ⏯️
I'm just learning viola, and playing with a group that is primarily Baroque. This explanation of ornaments is fascinating. Thanks!
Ornaments are such a delight to nerd about, glad to help =)
@@EmelieWaldkenI am from Germany. In 2015 I made a little round trip though the middle of Sweden. At "Gämla Linköping" I met some folk musicians one of them was Emma Hardelin from the Band "Triakel" and also "Garmarna". We had a good time there and sang the german song "Muss i denn zum Städtele hinaus" 😉👍.
Im looking forward to hear more Folk-Musik at this channel.
Funny i have never really thought of it as Baroque. I have played this melody many times both in Gille and Folkdance group and pictured 1800's fancy dressed people dancing pompus with a lot of bowing and armgestures. Come to think about it, so called "slängpolska" a polska played with a regular beat but irregular bow-strokes sound a lot like baroque music. But you really gave the touch of sound in this video for it.
Also funny that i automatically lift my bow as in the Baroque style in especially slängpolskor such as Donats and 1814 but with a Folkmusic style-tempo. I have no idea why, it just want to be in the air at certain points in the melodies f.i right in between a end of a section and the early phrase. It gives the melody identity and even an extra beat, tempo push imo. And i think i got my answer in this video.
Hi! Is there anywhere we could contact you about potentially playing on our concept album?
www.emeliewaldken.net/contact.html
Fint foredrag! Hadde lett kommet til et auditorium for å høre på sånt.
I play guitar, but I chose a similar, tentative, way to specify the difference between the baroque tunes intended for performance in a court, and a baroque tune intended for a street-performance. Because there are a lot of hints, at least sometimes, to that a lot of the baroque music, even after Bach -- that we have later come to think was completely separate from any kind of folk or street performance -- actually is just joined at the hip. It's as transparent that the Chittarone, that Kapsberger writes and plays beautiful renaissance-music on, intended for royalty and pomp -- is actually the same instrument as the Theorbo, the "vulgar" Turkish-inspired tavern and street instrument.
Meaning that although modern classical musicians often treat baroque music as if it is flat and ornamental-less, only based on phrasing, with the resting notes having a scientific fractional relationship to the note-values and so on - the relationship between the street and the court is obviously a lot closer than that approach would give you. So it's interesting to hear another perspective on this that points out why this is more of a sliding transition between the one and the other, or a slang variant of the same language - than it is a different discipline or type of music altogether.
Loving your view on that, thanks for writing all this ! I agree a lot about the fact that court music and street/popular music were often way closer than we nowadays think them. Also each has borrowed from the other countless times (all these baroque pieces called "giga" or "sarabanda" and also the "fandango" in classical ballet and such... it's all from folk music !)
Very interesting video! I like how you showed the differences between baroque and folk music. I have a rather classical and Irish kind of musical background (though I’m not Irish but I really like Irish music) and I play the piano and the tin and low whistle. This is why I’d probably add Irish ornaments even to a Swedish tune but only because I’m more used to the Irish style. I probably should watch your ornament video which I will do.
Keeping the melody going on the piano is possible by using the pedal I think though it’s rather a percussive instrument in that sense. On the Irish whistles it’s not that easy because I would probably have to create a continuous air stream by applying circular breathing which I never tried so far. But I heard that there are also similar instruments in Sweden. Do you know how it works with these? That would be very interesting.
Thank you for the lovely and in-depth comment !
I can relate to what you say about habits we have for playing some specific ornaments - I personally tend to play Swedish ornaments in Irish and Scottish tunes, oops ;)
Yes there are folk flutes in Sweden too ! We have limited sources about HOW they were played though, so a lot of today's style is formed of educated guesses and inspiration from adjacent styles.
One big difference between the Swedish folk flutes and the baroque/classical recorders is the sound of the instrument itself : the folk flutes have a lot more "air" in their sound and they project less and less clearly than the recorders. The texture of the sound is very different.
Then the ornaments are also very specific, for example there is a lot of attack in each breathing. Many fiddle ornaments can also be played (or adapted) to flutes.
@@EmelieWaldken Thanks a lot for your reply! 😊
Yes, I totally agree to the breathiness of the folk flutes, that also applies to Irish whistles. I guess that the Irish ornaments originally come from playing bagpipes. You can’t interrupt the sound after every note on the bagpipes so you have to play kind of a staccato note to separate two or more notes that are repeated. I guess that these staccato notes developed into the ornaments over time. But that’s only my guess and I’m not sure about it.
@@ZengHuaXiansheng It's definitely one of the sources for flute ornaments, for sure. Probably not for all the ornaments though. Even on fiddle, when one plays Scottish music for example, some traditional ornaments are inspired from the bagpipes.
for reference, one of those swedish spelpipor that has gained some popularity (and is not just beautiful but enormous fun to play) is the härjedalspipa. wouldn't want to live without mine. and that's coming from a bagpiper (playing both french and swedish pipes)
@@HaileISela It's one of the most well-known, yes, and its traditional repertoire is AWESOME !
I'm sure I heard/read somewhere that Johann Hedin 'forgot' this tune but remembered it - it's on the Live Concert In Paris record with Erik Pekkari and Pelle Bjornlert - and that's maybe how it got the name...? Wonderful video and such a lovely tune 🙂
Haaaa that could well be the origin of the name ! Thanks for the anecdote !
Great video and tips as always and fun with the outfits! I immediately thought of Lisa Rydberg and Gunnar Idenstam's album 'Bach på Svenska'. Have you heard it?
Thank you ! I have listened to bits of it, but I should definitely give it more time !
@@EmelieWaldken Nice one! I will too. And I'll try out this polska on my recorder in both styles and see what works best. It could be fun to start in one and then slip into the other - a little Baroque interlude in the middle of an otherwise folk rendition, perhaps?
@@svongorsk Oh I didn't think about slowly sliding from one to the other but it should be a lot of fun ! Or yes, using a different style as a variation in the middle.
I first thought it was polka. What I am also wondering, if it has any connection to Poland, or what is the origin of the name, because for a Slavic ear it sounds exactly like "Polish"
It IS from the word "Polish" =) This type of tune (and the dance going with it) has also be called "polonaise" - so "Polish", but in French ^^
@@EmelieWaldken Ah so? Actually I was thinking of polonaise, was just curious how this word got into Swedish almost unchanged (I guess in Polish it is written exactly so)
you can also do a video baroque vs cretan music
Carrot definately (as long as there are no raisens) but then I don't eat fruit so it's an easy choice for me.
Carrot cake is great !
Nice sakpipa sound
Interesting. I am primarily an Irish style fiddler. I am learning Swedish tunes on my Nyckleharpa. I can't help but twist the Swedish tunes toward celtic. I do so enjoy the way folk music evolves with each player. The dynamic of bow pressure and speed. Ornamentation. I miss being able to slide up or down the fingerboard on the Nyckleharpa like on a violin. As well as "baring" a chord across multiple strings with one finger. Thank you for your insights and technique demonstration.
I really like the fact that musicians have "accents" in their playing, just as one has in a learned language =) You might have a Celtic "accent" when playing Swedish tunes... I have a Swedish "accent" when I try to play Celtic tunes ^^
As a Swede I am always amazed when people that does not live in Sweden either learn to speak Swedish or learn to play Nyckelharpa.
@nocturne7371 hmm. I love my nyckelharpa. I love the sound, the action of the keys. I am an anomaly where I live. I played for the public 2 days at a local art and music fair. Only one person knew what instrument i was playing.
118 sure rocks :D
The difference is that, back in the 1700's, people were so baroque, they started lutting in the streets
Precisely
Ik wou dat ik het kon! Blokfluit spelen lukt no wel
Always be yourself. Unless you can be bagpipe. Always be bagpipe.
bagpipebagpipebagpipe
Gå tut, du !
Nice. Thanks.
Several of Eric Sahlström's songs were clearly influenced by classical music. My opinion, which of course could be wrong...
Nice channel
Of course they were ! As many other tunes too (a quick glance at Hälsingland repertoire shows the baroque influence well). Styles of music have influenced each other all the time =)
@@EmelieWaldken True. Thanks again.
No way I can choose between carrot cake or blueberry pie.
The struggle is real.
Both is good !
2 set violin.SEE this.
Vikings!!!!