on the dark pit topic, i think most people are parroting the old Alpharad FS tier list from right when the game came out. he (understandably) makes a big deal about a combo that sends behind you and kills at super low percents. i still think it's a good final smash for its versatility, basically being link's FS on a character with more combos into it, but it's more famous than its actual strength probably warrants. i would probably put it on par with falcon's, being slightly harder to confirm into but easier to use raw
About Lucario. He actually has a hitbox when he goes up which can confirm into the beam. Up-throw from center stage, fair or landing Nair while facing away from ledge, falling up-air etc.
Diddy's is insane because it's a guaranteed hit from anywhere on the stage (and underrated factor) and has incredible kill power. I have been KOed at 0% multiple times by even the FS meter version. SS tier.
The main problem with Diddy’s final smash is that it’s inconsistent. Because of how the first part works, if you don’t get a small hit before the final big hit, your opponent can air dodge through it.
@@butter_0021 It has been consistent enough in my experience. Plus, slight inconsistency is worth it if it means killing at 0% a large portion of the time without effort.
I think an important factor to note about how good these are is that you can't NB when you have them. For kirby, who cares. For wolf and Falco? That's a much bigger deal.
Yeah, I'm surprised he didn't bring this up. It's like the one bad thing about Zelda's. Edit: oh, he finally brought this up for Steve (and briefly for Shulk but only to show that Shulk can bypass this)
nope it just lacks the visuals the hitbox is still there for some reason source: I have gotten sucked in from behind dark samus on multiple occasions so I'm pretty sure it's there
45:00 I know exactly why everybody knows about that combo, it's because of alpharad. When smash ultimate first came out he made a tier list of all of the final smashes and he put dark pits really high because of that back throw combo
I feel like final smash combos off grab aren’t that important for a lot of characters. Opponents will play around final smash to camp it as hard as possible. Trying to land a grab on an opponent who really doesn’t wanna be grabbed is probably going to be really hard. I think what’s more important is if you can use your final smash to combo off an air to air aerial. Punishing your opponent for jumping or double jumping out of the corner and punishing with final smash is crazy. It’s why the star fox final smashes are still quite bad imo. If your opponent is jumping away from the corner, you can’t use it to call out their jump raw. They MUST be comboed into and comboing an opponent who’s not on the ground is a huge challenge. That’s what I would’ve considered much more when making this list personally. I would’ve tested rising aerials against aerial opponents (Mario full hop rising bair/up air > final smashes or Yoshi rising bair > final smash)
Terry actually has a pretty easy 0 to death using his final smash, so long as the opponent is somewhat to one side of the stage. Strong hit of dair, cancel into weak normal front b, cancel into fs.
I think you should have factored in the fact that final smashes are summoned by pressing B. A few characters get way worse if they can’t press b for a while (samus, Rosalina, piranha plant) and if the opponent isn’t at the right percent to combo into their final smash or be killed by it, they might struggle to get the opponent to the right percent without their neutral b Also I think a lot of final smashes give the player their jump back? Plus recoveries like little mac’s can be used to recover so that’s cool :3
@@elusive_kidney_thief There's some kind of bug with Ryu's FS where, when the opponent is between the distance windows for both FS, you will get a Shin Shoryuken-like FS with Shinku Hadoken-esque multihits and quite bad knockback iirc. I think PKBeats has a vid on it, could also have been PJiggles tho.....
the tierlist and explanation is great and all, but the 1v1 multiplayer stays on in practice range, even if you use items, and FS meter is weaker than the smash ball version. unless you add another CPU.
This is definitely a factor worth considering, and I do think I should've been even more clear with how much stronger the testing scenario I used makes them seem. There are definitely still a lot of 0-to-death combos featured that're still that strong in a real setting, but the numbers are 100% skewed away from low damage KOs. Though I do think the more important factor is weighing them relative to one another, and if they're all buffed in that setting, then the weaker, say, cutscene final smashes still end up being weaker overall (unless their smash meter multiplier is whack, which I also tried to take into account) In reality I REALLY wanted to test with smash meter to be thorough but ohhhhhh my god that would've sucked soooooo much for getting all the data LMFAO
I think you underrated how insanely well falco's final smash meshes with his combo tree. The fact that it sends straight up means that you can reliably kill any character at any percent with any combo starter. Obviously you still have to execute the combo, but even 0% confirms are pretty easy because of how insanely early up air > fs kills.
Glad inklings up in S tier, i was flabbergasted when I saw hungrybox put in in D tier. I was like HUH??? And he put similar ones in like A or S tier…whatever dude. Glad u realize its not bad lol
I tried using Duck Hunt's final smash as a normal final smash more in Quickplay, and it's incredibly weak. Being able to combo into it easily is nice, but the weakness basically requires you to try and use it near the edge, which you can't always do since you only have a limited time to use it. imo they should buff it.
Samus and Dark Samus actually *DO* have a difference between their final smashes; Samus has a hurtbox on her thrusters behind her that will draw those who get hit by it into the main final smash. Dark Samus doesn’t have this hurtbox.
@@itsyahomiescott3742 no it is the other way around. "pikachu has a smaller hurtbox than ganondorf" "zelda's forward air has both a strong and a weak hitbox"
I've actually brought this up before on the channel, someone even brought it up briefly during the stream lmfao. It's a difference, just not a big enough one
the multi-hit of roy's final smash actually disables the slowdown it has so if you clip someone with it but don't pull them into the main hit it's actually beneficial to them
Something I lile about sonics is that while its honestly awful in a 1v1, it can be amazing in group battles since it will always hit every opponent for decent damage, even if it cant do that much to an invividual
Ken and Ryu, yes you can cancel any special into their final smash. So literally down tilt, hadouken, final smash is a true combo, ect ect, any of their bnb combos you can just throw it on at the end
i'm by no means a competitive player or even particularly good, but i main lucas and i've found that his final smash is pretty good for cheesing spirit battles
I would argue Sheik needs to be substantially lower. Sending behind her sounds cool in theory, but in practice that means it's rarely going to kill. You're almost always going to be using this (and final smashes in general for the most part) facing the side of the screen, not facing center stage; you wouldn't be using a final smash in disadvantage. You would need to cross up the opponent to get this to launch in the direction it's more likely to kill, otherwise it has to launch the opponent twice as far and this just isn't strong enough to justify that difference. You'll more than likely not be trying to land a final smash when backed up into a corner, so the optimal situation for this move is generally unlikely to come up. Add that to the list of reasons that Sheik can't kill.
I think Rosalina deserves to be in B tier, or at least high C tier. Her grand star isn't really used like the other final smashes, but a brain dead "you can no longer recover" or "you can no longer land" Is good, and it lingers so long that if you miss it you can win a neutral interaction and hit them right into the finisher anyways
With my very limited and rusty Sora knowledge i'd like to add that even if you don't know the noops, just fastfall fair 1 or nair 1 and that works too.
I’d like to point out that most, if not all of these have no move staling. For some reason in training mode, move stale is off by default and you have to manually turn it on yourself everytime. Yoshi for example, you can see him load into a game and doesn’t go in and change it. Not throwing hate but I thought that was funny
The lack of kill power of Inkling's final smash really takes away from it. You can't reliably kill out of it either since Inkling doesn't have a Falcon knee or comparable kill aerial.
1:33:04 I found out that Terry can actually cancel his specials into his final dmash as well. So you could hit them with landing nair, a couple of down tilts, a forward tilt, cancel into burning knuckle, and then final smash Its kinda busted
So with Dk final smash ik it’s react able but to give you a perspective of the knock-back if you jump then do a final smash (even instantly) it kills most of the mid to light charecters at 0. So by 40 up it just kills anyways. Even then the amount of combo set ups Dk has? Air down b, nair, down tilt, at 40 I believe up air works. Anyways it’s really good. I’d argue so far into the video best cut scene final smash
About Jigglypuff. His FS most likely doesn't deserve to be at tier F because it has a lot more utility than FS of the same tier and above, considering that Puff can use it under the stage, covering the entire playable area, leaving alive only those with excellent air-stalling/teather recovery options.
The thing is, Puff's is still bad in that case. The vast majority of the cast can just jump to avoid it since it's incredibly slow and telegraphed, and even if they *do* get hit, it doesn't kill very well either. Also, if you want to use it under the stage, that also puts Puff into a disadvageous situation when trying to return to ledge afterwards. It absolutely deserves F-Tier when the only semi consistent use case of it involves putting yourself in a bad position for a not even great reward... Yeah that's a recipe for disaster.
I think the main reason that a lot people think Mario's final smash is bad is that they don't realize that it got pretty significant buffs at some point. Pretty sure it used to suck ass.
i feel like you understood the olimar one wrong because the way i see it is more like if you hit the burry hitbox you get your final smash but if you are too far even so for example a roy one would fail you still damage your oponeny a little bit by failing your final smash. The way i see it is more like a if you missed you still get a compensation instead of just failing
something i think you might've forgotten while doing your testing is that smash meter makes a lot of final smash weaker than they are with a smash ball, i don't think it would change much but some combos probably wouldn't work or wouldn't kill with smash meter
something i find hilarious about zelda fs is that the grab box is big enough to hit through the stage, so you can stage spike with it. cheesed a few online matches with that back in the day
For Mario's final smash, do you think its hitbox behind Mario gives him some advantage? I don't need to face the opponent, I just need to be close enough to get them thrown into my attack. Kind of fun to push people back to an edge they were jumping away from :)
Bowser Junior's final smash isn't really practical at low percents The point of the move in my eyes is to finish off stocks and if you're at like 60 or 70 you're pretty much cooked even if you don't get hit by the final smash itself it provides so much stage control that you can just finish them off anyway
thats the whole point of what he said in the marthina revised part they have a 0.3 modifier on the smash meter version wich makes it not an instakill at all
Seph should be an S he can combo into it with all of his throws (fthrow is a tech chase but if offstage it will combo) nair, reverse upair, weak fair, and late dtilt all would combo into it
oh look, it's the labber from the sephcord! I'm gonna be honest though, the inconsistency in seph's final smash is probably what holds back it back the most. seph only really has a 31.5% (23/73) chance to ko at 0, 45.2% (33/73) if you'll count reversed controls which are reactable & manageable, just difficult to deal with for most players. Even if you count reverse controls, the odds are still not in your favour with getting a your 0td seph final smash, and they just get worse the further your opponent gets from the stage. the other effects, especially increased launch distance are also kinda weak as they turn his really strong final smash into a genuinely MID one, which i guess is in line with his character (jkjk) edit: data corrections, since i misinterpreted them the first time.
I've actually did some labbing on seph fsmash since I was curious Ftilt fsmash is true inactive counter fsmash is true seph can actually combo fsmash from all aerials, most tilts (uptilt 😢) Jab, blade dash, and the flares
i feel like combos into final smashes are generally overrated because when your opponent has their final smash you are not engaging in neutral you are getting your silly self as far away from the glowing god of death like you are not gonna catch me shielding in front of donkey kong when he has a 73% go through shield button if they arent hitting me across the stage i am CAMPING them out
If you're playing with multiple other people, Jigglypuff has arguably the single best Final Smash in the game. That's not even an opinion, that's just a fact
I mean, in a SUPER casual setting, then sure. But like, if you're playing against 7 people who know how to airdodge, then Jiggglypuff will just fail to kill 7 people instead of failing to kill one person.
@@Riku70X Said 7 people will usually try and seize the opportunity and gimp the others. They will not cooperate. Air Dodging to avoid the final hit of the Final Smash leaves you very open afterwards, and that's assuming you didn't already use it to dodge someone else. This is for Stock Battles specifically btw because yeah the Final Smash itself is unlikely to directly kill anyone outside of a casual setting, but it is definitely going to result in people losing stocks and get tou ahead.
It's better, but it's still a weak ass move. Just not bottom fucking 1 anymore. Anyone competent is still not getting hit with it, and if we're talking a casual setting, then the final Smash becomes even more awful on larger stages.
@@Robbie_Haruna hitting someone with it is not the point, it's useful specifically because it forces people off stage where they start killing eachother. In a Stock match, where the goal is to die less than your opponents, it is straight up better than a lot of otherwise really good Cutscene Final Smashes throughout most of the match because they take other players out of states such as free fall, so you can inadvertently save someone with it (which outside of teammatches is usually very counter productive). Once only two or three people are left, Jigglypuff's Final Smash becomes completely terrible again (and those Cutscene Final Smashes lose their drawback). Also the only big stage worth playing on is Zelda's Temple. First rule about fight club, you do not talk about fight club.
@thegloriouskingkronk8422 That's the thing. It doesn't force people off stage, though. The vast majority of characters can just jump over the top of it (assuming it's used under the stage. Otherwise, they just move slightly to the side and avoid it.) Genuinely, the only character it forces offstage is the Puff using it, which is an increasingly higher risk for every other character in the match. You're correct that cutscenes' final smashes will save people on occasion. However, they will also actually do something when they hit someone. Puff's is certainly improved in a group setting, but it's still like maybe top 40-50 at best instead of bottom 3. Also, I wasn't even talking about giant stages. Legitimately, any stage medium-sized and up hinders Puff Up a shit ton, especially if it has platforms. Even 5+ player final destination essentially renders it a non factor.
Wow, yeah this sure is an opinion... I really hope most people don't take it as fact like they do the Alpharad video. The fact that a lot of this is just testing through means of a non-human & often non-moving CPU outside of a real match without actual experience & advice from people who know nothing of Final Smashes tells me that there's certainly some bias through lack of knowledge here, but I may be wrong.
I try to take great care to explain how I'm only one person with a limited viewpoint in the video, the last thing I want is for anyone to treat my word (or anyone's word, for that matter) as gospel. That being said, I did get a lot of opinions from people in chat and elsewhere about various picks and their experiences with them, while also watching a lot of videos describing more practical situations with the attack. I did a lot of testing the way I did in the video to make it easy to stream, but I did research outside of the stream to come to conclusions, especially in between Day 1 and 2 of the process. Plus, I do think there's merit to seeing how many combo routes and viable manners the user has to confirm their final smash, all of which can be tested in training mode like I did. The real variance mostly just comes from final smashes that're less straightforward, and while I tried to account for them as much as I could, again, I took great care to explain how I would need to see results before being confident in their placement on the tier, and otherwise just placed them where I felt like was currently fair. Trust me, after watching HBox's meter tournament, I understand how annoying it is for people with little experience with final smashes to say things like they're the gospel of the lord lmfao, I would love nothing more than for more data to be made available and for more meter tournaments to happen, but alas, I can only do so much Plus there were multiple examples of characters that had polar opposite opinions from many members in chat. My streams didn't have a TON of viewers, but it had plenty with plenty of active commenters (a lot of which being casual-leaning as that's what my viewerbase generally is), and when I got to PAC-MAN, I heard literally exact opposite opinions from very different people. Some saying it's one of the best final smashes in the game, some saying it's one of the worst. I tried my best to keep those types of thoughts in mind while admitting my own lack of experience, but I think it just goes to show how even "experience" will lead to pretty hard disagreement. I just tried my best
@@Casual_PKBeats Yeah, I get it. You can't please everyone. And while I do disagree with some of it, you've impacted my own opinions as well. I can see the time & effort you spent making your tier list, & I applaud your dedication to do something not many have done. Great video, & I am sorry if I sounded rude!
A bit disappointed that this is essentially a VOD with jumpcuts. I really like your editing and writing, so it's a bit of a shame that this video concept won't get that treatment. If you don't want to revisit this ranking again, can I recommend that you do a Final Smash Aesthetics ranking as a proper video? Would be the same concept as your Stage Aesthetics ranking video.
See super sonic has the most potential damage and is the most powerful character to grace Nintendo however that doesn’t make it good I mean he’s just ramming into you and not even at top speed it’s crazy Pac-Man is similar but the only way to get this damage is very particular while Sonic does better with them bouncing a bit of away from a ceiling while pac does it best in a one by one square
Sonics final smash has weird launch values. Getting very strong the last few passes he does. You can delay scooping them up and combo into it. But yeah it's still awful actually. Designed for 8 player free for alls where someone is bound to get unlucky.
That would be if they were ranked relative to eachother, (im assuming) because it was a livestream he didnt want to take that into account and have to rebalance them for the sake of time
on the dark pit topic, i think most people are parroting the old Alpharad FS tier list from right when the game came out. he (understandably) makes a big deal about a combo that sends behind you and kills at super low percents. i still think it's a good final smash for its versatility, basically being link's FS on a character with more combos into it, but it's more famous than its actual strength probably warrants. i would probably put it on par with falcon's, being slightly harder to confirm into but easier to use raw
He didn't use it at the ledge either. Which is what people meant.
Girl chill
About Lucario.
He actually has a hitbox when he goes up which can confirm into the beam.
Up-throw from center stage, fair or landing Nair while facing away from ledge, falling up-air etc.
Wolf's final smash being an outright stronger version of Fox's really embodies his "you're good, but I'm better" quote.
Diddy's is insane because it's a guaranteed hit from anywhere on the stage (and underrated factor) and has incredible kill power. I have been KOed at 0% multiple times by even the FS meter version. SS tier.
The main problem with Diddy’s final smash is that it’s inconsistent. Because of how the first part works, if you don’t get a small hit before the final big hit, your opponent can air dodge through it.
@@butter_0021 It has been consistent enough in my experience. Plus, slight inconsistency is worth it if it means killing at 0% a large portion of the time without effort.
I think an important factor to note about how good these are is that you can't NB when you have them.
For kirby, who cares. For wolf and Falco? That's a much bigger deal.
Yeah, I'm surprised he didn't bring this up. It's like the one bad thing about Zelda's.
Edit: oh, he finally brought this up for Steve (and briefly for Shulk but only to show that Shulk can bypass this)
And for Jigglypuff... well wait she wouldn't wanna neutral B with or without a Final Smash
13:20 iirc Dark Samus's version lacks the hitbox from the propulson shooting out of samus's back which makes it a little worse
nope it just lacks the visuals the hitbox is still there for some reason
source: I have gotten sucked in from behind dark samus on multiple occasions so I'm pretty sure it's there
@@Brass319 huh. strange.
@@Brass319nope, the hit box isn’t there. I’m pretty sure of this
@@JujanGames well I'm sure of the opposite
@@Brass319 well you're surely wrong, pkbeats has literally covered this fact on his channel before. Dark Samus doesn't have that hitbox.
45:00 I know exactly why everybody knows about that combo, it's because of alpharad. When smash ultimate first came out he made a tier list of all of the final smashes and he put dark pits really high because of that back throw combo
a TWO HOUR PKBEATS VIDEO??? christmas came early
I feel like final smash combos off grab aren’t that important for a lot of characters.
Opponents will play around final smash to camp it as hard as possible. Trying to land a grab on an opponent who really doesn’t wanna be grabbed is probably going to be really hard. I think what’s more important is if you can use your final smash to combo off an air to air aerial. Punishing your opponent for jumping or double jumping out of the corner and punishing with final smash is crazy.
It’s why the star fox final smashes are still quite bad imo. If your opponent is jumping away from the corner, you can’t use it to call out their jump raw. They MUST be comboed into and comboing an opponent who’s not on the ground is a huge challenge.
That’s what I would’ve considered much more when making this list personally. I would’ve tested rising aerials against aerial opponents (Mario full hop rising bair/up air > final smashes or Yoshi rising bair > final smash)
Terry actually has a pretty easy 0 to death using his final smash, so long as the opponent is somewhat to one side of the stage. Strong hit of dair, cancel into weak normal front b, cancel into fs.
I think you should have factored in the fact that final smashes are summoned by pressing B. A few characters get way worse if they can’t press b for a while (samus, Rosalina, piranha plant)
and if the opponent isn’t at the right percent to combo into their final smash or be killed by it, they might struggle to get the opponent to the right percent without their neutral b
Also I think a lot of final smashes give the player their jump back? Plus recoveries like little mac’s can be used to recover so that’s cool :3
You forgot Ryu's third FS, I am disappointed!
.........slightly.......
what. what third fs
@@elusive_kidney_thief There's some kind of bug with Ryu's FS where, when the opponent is between the distance windows for both FS, you will get a Shin Shoryuken-like FS with Shinku Hadoken-esque multihits and quite bad knockback iirc. I think PKBeats has a vid on it, could also have been PJiggles tho.....
it's not a bug, it's a reference from where if the same thing happens in street fighter, the same failed move comes out
it's not a bug, it's a reference from where if the same thing happens in street fighter, the same failed move comes out
the tierlist and explanation is great and all, but the 1v1 multiplayer stays on in practice range, even if you use items, and FS meter is weaker than the smash ball version. unless you add another CPU.
This is definitely a factor worth considering, and I do think I should've been even more clear with how much stronger the testing scenario I used makes them seem. There are definitely still a lot of 0-to-death combos featured that're still that strong in a real setting, but the numbers are 100% skewed away from low damage KOs. Though I do think the more important factor is weighing them relative to one another, and if they're all buffed in that setting, then the weaker, say, cutscene final smashes still end up being weaker overall (unless their smash meter multiplier is whack, which I also tried to take into account)
In reality I REALLY wanted to test with smash meter to be thorough but ohhhhhh my god that would've sucked soooooo much for getting all the data LMFAO
I still can't believe they couldn't be bothered to at least give Robin a second Final Smash that they can only use when Chrom is in the match.
46:45 oh yes landing nair into guardian orbiters my favorite combo
I think you underrated how insanely well falco's final smash meshes with his combo tree. The fact that it sends straight up means that you can reliably kill any character at any percent with any combo starter. Obviously you still have to execute the combo, but even 0% confirms are pretty easy because of how insanely early up air > fs kills.
thank you for letting me influence your opinions on stream :) had to make sure lucas got his props 💪
Falco's Final Smash killing off the top deserves S tier because at any %, Falco can ladder someone into a kill.
Glad inklings up in S tier, i was flabbergasted when I saw hungrybox put in in D tier. I was like HUH??? And he put similar ones in like A or S tier…whatever dude. Glad u realize its not bad lol
i love that soundbyte
21:13 Luigi activates the melody of the song by pulling his nose
Mario Final Smash was so bad they had to buff it. It’s actually decent now as you said but early ultimate it did nothing.
I tried using Duck Hunt's final smash as a normal final smash more in Quickplay, and it's incredibly weak. Being able to combo into it easily is nice, but the weakness basically requires you to try and use it near the edge, which you can't always do since you only have a limited time to use it. imo they should buff it.
The most definitive list, for sure
Samus and Dark Samus actually *DO* have a difference between their final smashes; Samus has a hurtbox on her thrusters behind her that will draw those who get hit by it into the main final smash. Dark Samus doesn’t have this hurtbox.
*hitbox
@@echo5172 I thought hitboxes were the areas where characters are damaged when they’re hit?
@@itsyahomiescott3742 no it is the other way around. "pikachu has a smaller hurtbox than ganondorf" "zelda's forward air has both a strong and a weak hitbox"
@@aarontcl4558 AHH, ok. Thanks for the clarification!👍
I've actually brought this up before on the channel, someone even brought it up briefly during the stream lmfao. It's a difference, just not a big enough one
You forgot to consider that Link's final smash is frame 1, you don't need to combo into it and it's unreactable
Random Skibidi Toilet jumpscare
the multi-hit of roy's final smash actually disables the slowdown it has so if you clip someone with it but don't pull them into the main hit it's actually beneficial to them
Something I lile about sonics is that while its honestly awful in a 1v1, it can be amazing in group battles since it will always hit every opponent for decent damage, even if it cant do that much to an invividual
Ken and Ryu, yes you can cancel any special into their final smash. So literally down tilt, hadouken, final smash is a true combo, ect ect, any of their bnb combos you can just throw it on at the end
58:25 to add on, Olimar’s bury hitbox also doubles as a spike hitbox.
1:52:23 Wait, but her dragon arm power up literally actives with a grab o.0
i'm by no means a competitive player or even particularly good, but i main lucas and i've found that his final smash is pretty good for cheesing spirit battles
I would argue Sheik needs to be substantially lower. Sending behind her sounds cool in theory, but in practice that means it's rarely going to kill. You're almost always going to be using this (and final smashes in general for the most part) facing the side of the screen, not facing center stage; you wouldn't be using a final smash in disadvantage. You would need to cross up the opponent to get this to launch in the direction it's more likely to kill, otherwise it has to launch the opponent twice as far and this just isn't strong enough to justify that difference. You'll more than likely not be trying to land a final smash when backed up into a corner, so the optimal situation for this move is generally unlikely to come up.
Add that to the list of reasons that Sheik can't kill.
My boy Kirby uses his final smash!
I think Rosalina deserves to be in B tier, or at least high C tier. Her grand star isn't really used like the other final smashes, but a brain dead "you can no longer recover" or "you can no longer land" Is good, and it lingers so long that if you miss it you can win a neutral interaction and hit them right into the finisher anyways
With my very limited and rusty Sora knowledge i'd like to add that even if you don't know the noops, just fastfall fair 1 or nair 1 and that works too.
Fun fact: when Robin changes tomes you can hold them like an item
Wait, so quick question; if Kirby can do the same thing as Ganondorf and combo into his Final Smash way easier, why is he only in A tier?
I’d like to point out that most, if not all of these have no move staling. For some reason in training mode, move stale is off by default and you have to manually turn it on yourself everytime. Yoshi for example, you can see him load into a game and doesn’t go in and change it. Not throwing hate but I thought that was funny
They really kooked with K Rool’s Final Smash.
The lack of kill power of Inkling's final smash really takes away from it. You can't reliably kill out of it either since Inkling doesn't have a Falcon knee or comparable kill aerial.
1:33:04
I found out that Terry can actually cancel his specials into his final dmash as well. So you could hit them with landing nair, a couple of down tilts, a forward tilt, cancel into burning knuckle, and then final smash
Its kinda busted
30:50
for pit's final smash the secret tech is jthe exact same as with the dragoon item: Just Mash A and it always hits
Unless the opponent also knows this and spotdodges. It's a fun trick, but there's still counterplay that instantly wastes it.
So with Dk final smash ik it’s react able but to give you a perspective of the knock-back if you jump then do a final smash (even instantly) it kills most of the mid to light charecters at 0. So by 40 up it just kills anyways. Even then the amount of combo set ups Dk has? Air down b, nair, down tilt, at 40 I believe up air works. Anyways it’s really good. I’d argue so far into the video best cut scene final smash
About Jigglypuff. His FS most likely doesn't deserve to be at tier F because it has a lot more utility than FS of the same tier and above, considering that Puff can use it under the stage, covering the entire playable area, leaving alive only those with excellent air-stalling/teather recovery options.
The thing is, Puff's is still bad in that case.
The vast majority of the cast can just jump to avoid it since it's incredibly slow and telegraphed, and even if they *do* get hit, it doesn't kill very well either.
Also, if you want to use it under the stage, that also puts Puff into a disadvageous situation when trying to return to ledge afterwards.
It absolutely deserves F-Tier when the only semi consistent use case of it involves putting yourself in a bad position for a not even great reward... Yeah that's a recipe for disaster.
I think the main reason that a lot people think Mario's final smash is bad is that they don't realize that it got pretty significant buffs at some point. Pretty sure it used to suck ass.
That's a really interesting way to do a FS ranking
1:25:51 Will this tech work with Kirby as well? If he has Shulk’s copy ability and his Final Smash ready?
i feel like you understood the olimar one wrong because the way i see it is more like if you hit the burry hitbox you get your final smash but if you are too far even so for example a roy one would fail you still damage your oponeny a little bit by failing your final smash. The way i see it is more like a if you missed you still get a compensation instead of just failing
something i think you might've forgotten while doing your testing is that smash meter makes a lot of final smash weaker than they are with a smash ball, i don't think it would change much but some combos probably wouldn't work or wouldn't kill with smash meter
This is a big change in the tier list.
I think yoshis FS is really good it gives him a good recovery option you have too be aware of if he has it
something i find hilarious about zelda fs is that the grab box is big enough to hit through the stage, so you can stage spike with it. cheesed a few online matches with that back in the day
36:09 SEE HONEY?! I can just combo into it! And it is way bigger!
Doesn't Pichu's do like 25% of self damage? I feel like that justifies a D tier ranking
Sonic's has a really strong first hit if you stand next to them
Lucas mains are loyal to him. You will never convince them otherwise. All they want is to see this sad depressing child be happy
can confirm
42:38 this is hilarious but impractical
For Mario's final smash, do you think its hitbox behind Mario gives him some advantage? I don't need to face the opponent, I just need to be close enough to get them thrown into my attack. Kind of fun to push people back to an edge they were jumping away from :)
Im pretty sure link and young link can just chain back-airs until you get off stage and then b reverse the final smash into a kill at 0%
roy final smash start from behind him, you also get more damage when doing so
Only 25 minutes into the video, but I wonder if he’s gonna take Final Smashes replacing a character’s Neutral Special into account
against bowser and pit try to snap ledge, its so funny
Bowser Junior's final smash isn't really practical at low percents The point of the move in my eyes is to finish off stocks and if you're at like 60 or 70 you're pretty much cooked even if you don't get hit by the final smash itself it provides so much stage control that you can just finish them off anyway
I can’t believe Marcina are so low, it’s an instant kill
thats the whole point of what he said in the marthina revised part they have a 0.3 modifier on the smash meter version wich makes it not an instakill at all
Meter makes them not an instakill. Also, they're incredibly reactable and can't be comboed onto worth a damn.
based bayo placement
Did you know you can sdi out of toon link's final smash?
Lmao this is the heavily edited version?
Seph should be an S
he can combo into it with all of his throws (fthrow is a tech chase but if offstage it will combo)
nair, reverse upair, weak fair,
and late dtilt all would combo into it
also the neutral b thing, the flare trio Isn't essential at all to neutral so its honestly better having it over his neutral b
oh look, it's the labber from the sephcord!
I'm gonna be honest though, the inconsistency in seph's final smash is probably what holds back it back the most.
seph only really has a 31.5% (23/73) chance to ko at 0, 45.2% (33/73) if you'll count reversed controls which are reactable & manageable, just difficult to deal with for most players. Even if you count reverse controls, the odds are still not in your favour with getting a your 0td seph final smash, and they just get worse the further your opponent gets from the stage.
the other effects, especially increased launch distance are also kinda weak as they turn his really strong final smash into a genuinely MID one, which i guess is in line with his character (jkjk)
edit: data corrections, since i misinterpreted them the first time.
I've actually did some labbing on seph fsmash since I was curious
Ftilt fsmash is true
inactive counter fsmash is true
seph can actually combo fsmash from all aerials, most tilts (uptilt 😢) Jab, blade dash, and the flares
Bro legit ranked Byleth over Banjo, never cook again
I keep forgetting grabs are a thing.
1:04:35 Yep, it is
I'm very eagerly reminded of how much I hate final smashes now. Good vid thou, very well thought out
i feel like combos into final smashes are generally overrated because when your opponent has their final smash you are not engaging in neutral you are getting your silly self as far away from the glowing god of death like you are not gonna catch me shielding in front of donkey kong when he has a 73% go through shield button if they arent hitting me across the stage i am CAMPING them out
1:04:34 I don't know, you're the editor 🤷♂
You can air dodge out of the final hit of Mythra's final smash :/
If you're playing with multiple other people, Jigglypuff has arguably the single best Final Smash in the game. That's not even an opinion, that's just a fact
I mean, in a SUPER casual setting, then sure.
But like, if you're playing against 7 people who know how to airdodge, then Jiggglypuff will just fail to kill 7 people instead of failing to kill one person.
@@Riku70X Said 7 people will usually try and seize the opportunity and gimp the others. They will not cooperate. Air Dodging to avoid the final hit of the Final Smash leaves you very open afterwards, and that's assuming you didn't already use it to dodge someone else.
This is for Stock Battles specifically btw because yeah the Final Smash itself is unlikely to directly kill anyone outside of a casual setting, but it is definitely going to result in people losing stocks and get tou ahead.
It's better, but it's still a weak ass move. Just not bottom fucking 1 anymore.
Anyone competent is still not getting hit with it, and if we're talking a casual setting, then the final Smash becomes even more awful on larger stages.
@@Robbie_Haruna hitting someone with it is not the point, it's useful specifically because it forces people off stage where they start killing eachother. In a Stock match, where the goal is to die less than your opponents, it is straight up better than a lot of otherwise really good Cutscene Final Smashes throughout most of the match because they take other players out of states such as free fall, so you can inadvertently save someone with it (which outside of teammatches is usually very counter productive).
Once only two or three people are left, Jigglypuff's Final Smash becomes completely terrible again (and those Cutscene Final Smashes lose their drawback).
Also the only big stage worth playing on is Zelda's Temple. First rule about fight club, you do not talk about fight club.
@thegloriouskingkronk8422 That's the thing. It doesn't force people off stage, though. The vast majority of characters can just jump over the top of it (assuming it's used under the stage. Otherwise, they just move slightly to the side and avoid it.)
Genuinely, the only character it forces offstage is the Puff using it, which is an increasingly higher risk for every other character in the match.
You're correct that cutscenes' final smashes will save people on occasion. However, they will also actually do something when they hit someone.
Puff's is certainly improved in a group setting, but it's still like maybe top 40-50 at best instead of bottom 3.
Also, I wasn't even talking about giant stages. Legitimately, any stage medium-sized and up hinders Puff Up a shit ton, especially if it has platforms. Even 5+ player final destination essentially renders it a non factor.
Wow, yeah this sure is an opinion... I really hope most people don't take it as fact like they do the Alpharad video. The fact that a lot of this is just testing through means of a non-human & often non-moving CPU outside of a real match without actual experience & advice from people who know nothing of Final Smashes tells me that there's certainly some bias through lack of knowledge here, but I may be wrong.
I try to take great care to explain how I'm only one person with a limited viewpoint in the video, the last thing I want is for anyone to treat my word (or anyone's word, for that matter) as gospel.
That being said, I did get a lot of opinions from people in chat and elsewhere about various picks and their experiences with them, while also watching a lot of videos describing more practical situations with the attack. I did a lot of testing the way I did in the video to make it easy to stream, but I did research outside of the stream to come to conclusions, especially in between Day 1 and 2 of the process. Plus, I do think there's merit to seeing how many combo routes and viable manners the user has to confirm their final smash, all of which can be tested in training mode like I did. The real variance mostly just comes from final smashes that're less straightforward, and while I tried to account for them as much as I could, again, I took great care to explain how I would need to see results before being confident in their placement on the tier, and otherwise just placed them where I felt like was currently fair.
Trust me, after watching HBox's meter tournament, I understand how annoying it is for people with little experience with final smashes to say things like they're the gospel of the lord lmfao, I would love nothing more than for more data to be made available and for more meter tournaments to happen, but alas, I can only do so much
Plus there were multiple examples of characters that had polar opposite opinions from many members in chat. My streams didn't have a TON of viewers, but it had plenty with plenty of active commenters (a lot of which being casual-leaning as that's what my viewerbase generally is), and when I got to PAC-MAN, I heard literally exact opposite opinions from very different people. Some saying it's one of the best final smashes in the game, some saying it's one of the worst. I tried my best to keep those types of thoughts in mind while admitting my own lack of experience, but I think it just goes to show how even "experience" will lead to pretty hard disagreement. I just tried my best
@@Casual_PKBeats Yeah, I get it. You can't please everyone. And while I do disagree with some of it, you've impacted my own opinions as well. I can see the time & effort you spent making your tier list, & I applaud your dedication to do something not many have done. Great video, & I am sorry if I sounded rude!
A bit disappointed that this is essentially a VOD with jumpcuts. I really like your editing and writing, so it's a bit of a shame that this video concept won't get that treatment. If you don't want to revisit this ranking again, can I recommend that you do a Final Smash Aesthetics ranking as a proper video? Would be the same concept as your Stage Aesthetics ranking video.
See super sonic has the most potential damage and is the most powerful character to grace Nintendo however that doesn’t make it good I mean he’s just ramming into you and not even at top speed it’s crazy Pac-Man is similar but the only way to get this damage is very particular while Sonic does better with them bouncing a bit of away from a ceiling while pac does it best in a one by one square
1:16:13 y’all heard that right?
When you sdi marios finak smash its better to sdi in not up... I get out at 70 in like 2 seconds at most.
1:16:10 ????
Haha I was here it was fun
peach's is not that good bruh
I still like toon links sound effects
Ridley being way lower than K rool feels illegal. And...tbh while the art for peach and daisy's final smash is nice, its not S tier nice.
Sonics final smash has weird launch values. Getting very strong the last few passes he does. You can delay scooping them up and combo into it.
But yeah it's still awful actually. Designed for 8 player free for alls where someone is bound to get unlucky.
this game is very designed
@mxyzptplk It is in fact a game designed to account for not only 1v1s
A wise man once said; "every final smash is a cutscene attack... you press the button, and it happens..."
8th
Shouldn't the majority of final smashs be in c tier since c is average?
That would be if they were ranked relative to eachother, (im assuming) because it was a livestream he didnt want to take that into account and have to rebalance them for the sake of time
307 views in 21 minutes you fell off
This joke is unfunny
3:10 LOOK MOM I'M ON TV HAIIIII!!!!