Is CJI now a better show than ADCC?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2024
- With #CJI signing the #Ruotolo brothers, is it now a better event on paper than the #adcc ?
Both Kade and Tye will take part in the -80kg division at the Craig Jones Invitational. That event was also boosted by the announcement of a superfight between UFC star Mackenzie Dern and arguably the best female grappler in the the world, Ffion Davies.
But the ADCC can still boast the likes of Gordon Ryan, Mica Galvao and Nicholas Meregali. So which event currently has the best roster? Calum and Ross give their thoughts on the latest edition of the Jiu Jitsu Oracle.
00:00 The Ruotolo Brothers' Switch from ADCC to CJI
12:15 Other Upcoming Matches for Kade and Tye
18:53 Mackenzie Dern vs. Ffion Davies at CJI
Send your comments and questions to: jiujitsuoracle@gmail.com
Find us on Instagram at: jiujitsuoracle
To learn more about where we train, search all the usual platforms for SBG Aberdeen.
Hosts: Calum Burke and Ross McTavish 
Спорт
Gordon is definitely the biggest name. But that doesn’t mean the show where he is matters if he doesn’t have a formidable opponent.
I think people tune into watch Gordon regardless. His who’s number 1 matches are rarely against anyone legitimately threatening to him. That being said you have a good point I think the divisions where there are multiple legitimate contenders are more exiting to watch. -80 is shaping up to be incredibly interesting and competitive, however divisions like adcc -66 are also very competitive and interesting.
- Calum
People want to watch stars. Match quality isn't a huge drawing factor. There are lots of examples of athletes who draw big while destroying opponents who people know have next to no chance, prime Mike Tyson being one example. If Gordon's grappling, a huge amount of people who like grappling will want to watch him.
- Ross
It’s over now, CJI takes it all day. Ruotolos were the last straw for ADCC, I’ll watch the finals as I have flo, and under 66 is still a banger but if Craig puts more brackets on next time (under 70), and sticks to the same date as ADCC then it’ll be a landslide. The opens probably make enough money to keep the promotion going, but now they absolutely have to expand the pay dramatically regardless, it’s moving the needle like a nuke at this stage.
Props to Craig, this is the biggest drama the sport has ever seen and has drawn so much more attention to the sport, other than the negativity going back and forth this is an absolute win for the current and future athletes.
It’ll be interesting to see what ADCC changes in 2026 - and if CJI runs then. Maybe ADCC will dramatically up the pay and Craig will feel his work is done. If CJI wants they’ll get a clear run in 2025. Maybe they’ll continue to build momentum and in 2026 be an even bigger problem for ADCC. This story should have more chapters to come and we’re here for all of it.
- Ross
-80 is looking like the best division so far especially with the fact that they still have a few names to fill it out, -66 is second imo imo
I agree, especially from a competitive and depth point of view, obviously there’s some huge names in over and under 99 but so many good names in -80 and -66
This is the dopest female bjj fight ever. This card, is already is the dopest card ever. I am pumped for Dern vs Davies.
Yes, I can't think of a women's match that has created this level of excitement and interest. It's great for the sport. Well done to everyone who is making it happen.
- Ross
I don't think you can understate the impact of CJI being free on RUclips and ADCC being behind a paywall. When we're talking about 'size' I feel like viewership is the ultimate determining factor and I suspect CJI is on track to blow them out of the water
Agreed. I'll be watching CJI live, ads and all. I'll only be watching adcc highlights after the fact.
I’m not sure of the viewership deals ADCC has around the world - if everywhere is through Flo or there are other platforms in different countries. Will look into it. It’s also unlikely we’ll ever know the viewership for ADCC, unless they provide it, while RUclips should give an indication for CJI.
Flo is also likely to put some matches up on RUclips shortly after they happen.
Ticket sales and reach also come into it.
Gordon is the athlete who, by far, has the biggest reach and he’s in ADCC.
No doubt a lot of eyes will be on CJI and it will be tough to make comparisons with accurate numbers around the world, but we’ll try…
- Ross
@@JiuJitsuOracle-lz9yf I hear you mate. My question is how many people are tuning in to see Gordon, who is undoubtedly the biggest grappler in the world, on PPV that aren't already BJJ fanatics. I suspect it's a very small number, so the casuals argument is out. If that's the case and I'm correct, I suspect many people will opt to watch some of the greatest grapplers in the world, most of whom they're already familiar with, for free rather than paying to watch Gordon.
TLDR : I suspect a lack of name value won't be an issue for CJI amongst the people who are prepared to watch grappling on PPV anyway
Both shows are going to draw from the niche crowd that is; fans of elite BJJ competition. I think a lot will watch both. Some without Flo will only watch CJI, but even then some of ADCC will come out on RUclips. And there will be watch parties etc.
- Ross
This year CJI takes it hands down, the question is how sustainable will the CJI funding format be? I hope it is! I’m all for it.
It would make sense for them to run unopposed in 2025. Then in 2026, who knows…
- Ross
RIP ADCC 🪦
waiting on him getting Marcelo or Andre. its CJI all day. i will say Wno had its best card ever yersterday
The talk around the big name has kinda died down. I’d have thought it would be announced when tickets went on sale. I’m not putting anything past Craig though. He’s made some great signings so far.
- Ross
“Is that Shade or Credit Young Callum!!” haha!
Pleased he confirmed it was "credit"
- Old man Ross
Hahaha Ive actually wanted to post it -> Its the Young Aphex Twin/Richard James aka Ross!
Aphex Twin is great. I’ll take it!
I believe we have to see what really will happen on both sides and than conclude what was better. All this now is just assumption based on promises. CJI newer was before and no one knows if it will be made again. On top of that I don't like when main investor of CJI is secret person. On other side this just exposing how many of top JJ competitors are desperate for money. It is definitely nice to see that ADCC raised more money for competitors and this made some positive outcome in this moment. But we have to see how all this will play in future and if there will be better for JJ in general or it will fire back and make it worse in long terms.
The proof of the pudding is indeed in the eating. But where’s the fun in waiting? It’s great that there is so much chat around these events with all of the news, previews and predictions. I’ve never seen so much interest in grappling shows.
- Ross
@@JiuJitsuOracle-lz9yf yes it is true this did change atmosphere in this sport and it is effecting ADCC lots. I would say in some way was needed but on other side I believe there will be much more to talk after all is done.
It could just be chapter one of a long story...
It will be interesting to see how the CJI business model works. "He" is putting a lot of money on the table. Can it work long term? His partners might be willing to spend to create a show but at some point they will want a return. You've seen this in MMA. New rich promotions pop up to take over the UFC's spot. 2 or 3 shows later money dries up and they disappear or become side notes. Not sure what CJI's goal is, become a grappling leader or just help building the sport by "forcing" other promotors to pay better. Obviously anything the helps athletes will be positive
You make good points and there are certainly a lot of questions that need answered. And it may take a few years to get those answers…
- Ross
100% CJI is better and exposed ADCC for who and what they are. This is the beginning of the end for ADCC. Their credibility is zero going forward. Also, if Gordon doesn’t compete against the best (all of whom are in CJI) he does lose a little credibility. He could jump, but I bet the Arabs treat him to special monetary bonuses no one else gets. At the end of the day, if you’re the best and do not compete against the best, does it matter?
Beginning of the end? That’s a big shout…
I wouldn’t say the top +99ers are all in CJI. At this stage Felipe, Roosevelt and Gutemberg are in ADCC. Big Dan as well.
And there’s Yuri in the superfight.
Also, if Gordon competes against other top guys enough (whatever that number is) on the likes of WNO and FPI, he’ll keep that status and folk will tune in to see him wherever he is competing against whomever he faces.
@@JiuJitsuOracle-lz9yfI realize this. Craig Jones (who is an unknown outside the JiuJitsu world) gets a minuscule of financial backing compared to one of wealthiest men in the world, goes head to head and draws most of the top talent away from the ADCC speaks volumes. I also tend to believe this has potential to cause four things to happen. 1. Mo digs into his pockets and runs this with credible associates. 2. Others realize they are able to compete with ADCC (providing they’re not afraid for their lives given the death threats Craig has received) 3. CJI replaces ADCC given it’s a success and /or he receives more financial support. 4. ADCC/CJI both live symbiotically.
I bet CJI was all done just to piss off Gordon. As Craig likely knows Gordon wouldn't compete hahaha
I think on point number 1 it’s more that ADCC will evolve and change its pay structure, with or without Mo.
- Ross
Helping the athletes and pissing off some people is win/win for Craig…
I am so glad that Craig is finally building his Foxcatcher Jiu-Jitsu group.
No, honestly, I am pissed that he is drawing away so much talent but at the same time.... I think it could be good for the sport in the long run. It all depends on how long is the mystery donor going to continue their generosity and can the production become profitable? Only time will tell.
Even if the mystery donor is one-and-done, this has changed the sport. Money going to the ADCC athletes has already increased a little bit and next time it could well go up a lot, in an effort to put off any potential rivals.
- Ross
Pretty sure the promoter is 100% locked in for next year already
Next year is interesting - there's no ADCC and they'll get a clear run at it. Unless someone starts are rival show to Craig's event and we do this all over again...
I dont think gordon ryan is big enough to carry a show himself
I don’t think he will be carrying it by himself, there are still a ton of other great names in adcc and will be regardless of how the rest of the CJI divisions shape up. However CJI are brining some serious firepower now, the talent in the divisions being more concentrated between only 2 divisions compared to 5 may cause people to tune into them rather than ADCC, that coupled with it being free on RUclips.
I think most big grappling fans will tune into both though.
- Calum
it's definitely better than adcc. just the gabby garcia fight alone makes it that.
I'm just talking about, as a show.
Gordon Ryan is still at ADCC but he's just a steroid experiment anyway, who cares. Who knows how good he even is, since his real expertise is with steroids. I know everyone is on steroids, but he takes the cake. He looks like he's getting implants from an Impossible Burger factory, not a regular human. Plus he's so profoundly negative, anyway. I'd rather watch any show he is not in.
Boom roasted 😂, high level Gordon diss there.
Yeah I think it’ll be really interesting how CJI comes together as a show, they’re paying their athletes most of the money and not as much on production unlike ADCC, however I still feel like Craig will have some tricks up his sleeve to make the show a great spectacle to watch.
-Calum
Mikey is in cji now too
Yeah, on the one hand we hope he gets a great opponent. On the other, it would be a shame if someone pulls out of the -66kg division at ADCC.
- Ross
@@JiuJitsuOracle-lz9yf why would it be a shame? ADCC is still good, but they need to learn a lesson obviously, so the best way is to make sure they lose some of the best names.
Cause the fans will lose out on seeing amazing matches. If it was Pato for example we could miss seeing him in 4 matches, for one match with Mikey. And I think the point has been made regardless of whether anyone else jumps. Not just made, but heard loud and clear.
- Ross
Kaynan would be a big jump, but he's a known steroid user, therefore if CJI is truly testing as Craig said in his podcast interview and Kaynan came in juicy and was DQ'd that would not only be a huge step forward for athlete pay, but also a potential huge step in reducing steroid usage in competitive jiujitsu. However, it is more likely imo that he stays in ADCC where they will not test him, all this hinging on the assumption that he is still using steroids. Bottom line though, if they are testing and anyone does fail that test the handling of that possibility is also an interesting matter.
I’ve not looked into the testing situation yet. It’s certainly interesting if one show is testing and one isn’t.
- Ross
@@JiuJitsuOracle-lz9yf ADCC is confirmed no testing, Craig claimed in an interview CJI will "test every athlete except for me" (Craig Jones) I also believe along with athlete pay in general, specifically pay incentives for clean athletes similar to Lachlan Giles' approach to paying high level Australian athletes who choose to keep their talents in Australia, can be 2 birds with 1 stone. Money up, juice down.
Gordon's matches are boring
Why do you find them boring? Is it because you feel like you know the result before it happens or because you think Gordon’s style is boring?
ADCC is bigger, no doubt, that’s what pissed the athletes off in the first place. Bigger crowd/venue/spectacle and none of that going towards the athletes. In terms of talent CJI is better
I still think there’s a debate to be had with who has the better talent - Gordon, Mica, Meregali are all ADCC for starters. I’m sure talked about on a future episode…
- Ross