N.T. Wright: The book of Revelation & what we get wrong
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- Опубликовано: 13 дек 2020
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In this clip, Kurt Willems asks N.T. Wright for a brief sketch of Revelation and some insight on how many Christians misread it.
Jewish convert to Christ here. Once I was a believer I became involved with churches, I was shocked at how the images of Revelation - which are the same images, and prophecies, as found in the Tanakh - were made so monstrous and incomprehensible. Yet the veracity of Christ’s claims all depend on these prophecies being true and proven so in His time, as the prophets foretold.
Christ spoke to the prophets in the Tanakh, stating that all that He planned, did come to pass and all that He would say He would do would come to pass. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end - declaring the end from the beginning. The trouble you have, is that you are spiritually blind and unable to believe that Christ is eternal God who came to earth and lived in a human body, who lived and died as a human, and who rose from the dead and ascended back from where He came. Before He returns, the Holy Spirit may come to you and remove this blindness, if not, then your blindness will be removed upon His return.
The veracity of Christ’s claims all depend on the fact that He is the express image of the Invisible One.....nothing more. The Lord Jesus Christ is how we see God.
the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers @@jjreddog571
Prophecy, isn't seeing the future. It's basically giving you a probability of something which may happen unless you change things or ways
@kathyern861 so, when Jesus prayed to God. He is praying to himself then?
Even though Jesus said that there was only one who is good and it was the father who is in heaven?
None of these are important to you?
None of these sends little alarm bells off to you?
Have you ever actually thought about reading the Bible? Obviously you have not..
If Satan is bound now I hate to see the world when he was loosed.
My sentiment as well. Kingdom Now Theology.
Isn’t satan the god of this world and he’s been roaming through the earth already according to Job. Isn’t he the prince of the power of the air.
Isn’t there a one thousand year reign on earth wherein Satan is bound until after the thousand years ends he will be released again. Revelation 19 & 20.
And if the millennium (1000 years) had already begun when Jesus ascended and we now have gone close to 3,000 years doesn’t make sense. Or is it a spiritual thousand years which could be 3, 4, perhaps 5,000 of our years.
My final question is I thought the 1,000 reign was like heavenly peace, no more pain, the lion lies down with the lamb and children can play on a cockatrices nest etc?
satan is not Bound now, as he's being held in Heaven & his spirit is in the world. But he will be kicked out of Heaven to the Earth in person, as he comes to Earth at the 6thTrump looking like a lamb. During this Millenium Time Of Teaching, he will be BOUND IN THE Pit, & loosed at the End for a short while to once again gather all those who love him & They will Perish with him.
When the thousand years were over Satan is to be loosed again.
Satan is bound in so far as he is prevented (bound) from hindering the spread of the Gospel. The bible is clear that Satan is still active but God has bound him from stopping the spread of the Gospel. Matt. 16:17-19
Great video. Looking forward to hearing more. Thanks.
Revelation is a Book that unveils itself more and more as time goes on. This is why it is the only book written that comes with
a special blessing for the readers. Every day that passes makes this time we live in more exciting as we see all things converge
and line up just like the Bible said it would. You must watch Israel because God is not a liar, He will not abandon them and they
will be restored back to the head of the Nations. I would say work while time is still left and keep looking up, Christ is coming.
Check out Gary DeMar he has many books and there is videos on RUclips.
ruclips.net/video/mfCEB8Sk6xA/видео.html
The blessings for the readers was for the first century
@@allenwoodward9258 Really, if U haven`t received your blessing U need to look toward Israel....maybe this will ring a scriptural Bell....Cheers
@@jjreddog571 46 yrs ago I recieved the gift/baptism of the Spirit as God promised I have been blessed every day and recieve knowledge from His words recorded in the first century 😁
He is coming to reign! 🙌🏻
If you are satisfied with a box of puzzle in a state of disarray, that's where you will rest. But if you look at it as something that needs to be fitted together to make it a beautiful picture the creator intends you to see, then you need to change your view from mere symbolism, idealism to the prophetic interpretation to get a beautiful picture. Or be satisfied with the puzzle in confusion.
How are the symbols in the book of Revelation so mysterious when half are explained in the book itself and the rest can mainly be found in Daniel 7 and elsewhere ! 🤦♂️
So a giant pregnant woman in the sky isn’t mysterious?
@@madrick2831 😂 Some things are hard to understand. For example who were the two witnesses? I haven't found a concrete answer yet.
@@yesnomaybeso5755 ...we do not need to know who the two witnesses are. What is important is their job.
@@1969cmp I disagree. We could argue the same thing about the messiah. Without any concrete evidence we could just as easily dismiss Jesus Being the messiah. However we do have evidence for Him being the Messiah. God always leaves a witness for us. So I believe if the book of revelation was fulfilled in the first century, we can find out who the two witnesses are.
@@yesnomaybeso5755 Peter and Paul? Or, more likely, symbols.
This “now and not yet” reference to the Kingdom was posited by me in a Wright seminar in the late 1990s in Louisville, KY as a parallel in the church to his assertion of late Second Temple Jewish understanding of the end of the Babylonian exile in terms of “now and not yet”. Nice to see that he embraced it.
well well well you sure _are_ special one to have taught NT Wright...
Huh? I told Wright about this "now and not yet" in the late 70s in Greenwich. Don't try it, bro.
@@fridge3489 not quite what I meant to say. Wright brought up the “now and not yet” at the seminar in the 90s regarding the Babylonian exile. I asked if a parallel could be seen in the church’s longing for the Kingdom as also “now and not yet”, to which he agreed, as though that was a not-yet-considered thought.
The resurrection of a great multitude of Overcomers out of the great tribulation before the throne of God takes place between the 6th and 7th seals, in Rev. 7:9-17
The boo of Revelation is not a "political cartoon" .. it is a revealed Word of God what is going to happen in the future..
He is referring to the symbols of the donkey and the elephant. If these were used symbolically, Americans would immediately recognize what he's referring to.
Revelation 1:1 "...the things that must SOON take place"...and 1:3. "for the time is near."
This is a lie to those the letter was written to or John was misleading them in some fashion, deliberately or by mistake. The early church generation certainly thought it was going to happen in their lifetime while they were alive. So did Jesus if his words mean anything.
The teaching of Thomas Wright are like a wonderful breath of fresh air. ✔️
He is the master of eisesgisis.....reading his own view into the text and ignoring obvious readings, 'we will be caught up in the air..'
I had not heard of NT Wright until recently. I am still reading up so I can fully understand his views. On first blush though I always get worried when someone thinks they are the only one that gets things right. And as far as Revelation covering only through 70AD, it seems really limiting that God reveals something this huge to John, and it was over before the first century was concluded. When Daniel had his vision it covered several hundred years just to get through the Roman Empire. Again it seems such a waste to have John see this vision that was basically over before he even died. Lots of questions myself about Revelation, but I am not sure Mr. Wright is RIGHT!! 🙂
Well, NT Wright is correct, insomuch as he points out the flaws in MacArthur's pre-trib rapture theories.
However, there's a lot of good reasons to believe that on the whole they are both wrong.
Seems to me if the writer of the book of Revelation (the Apostle John) taught his disciples Historical Premillennialism (Post-tribulation return of Christ, and 1,000 year reign on earth) then I'm going to need a lot of evidence to believe that he was wrong.
There is no reason to allegorize the ENTIRE book of Revelation, or most of the Olivet Discourse. When the Bible uses plain language, it should be interpreted as such...and a plain reading of the Revelation 20 as well as the Olivet discourse leads to Historical Premillennialism...NOT Amillennialism or Dispensationalism.
Revelation 20:4 is not about the thousand year reign of Christ, but instead, it is about the thousand year reign of decapitated souls. That is literally what the text says. These are those same souls found in Revelation 6:9-11, who are crying out for restitution.
@@larrymcclain8874
Let me get this straight.
You are seriously trying to suggest that the words: "lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." in Revelation 20:4 means they reigned....but NOT Christ.
How can they reign "with" Christ, but Christ not be reigning?
John of Revelation is not the John of the gospels. Different person
Read Jesus and the Victory of God. Read, Surprised by Hope. The list is long. If you rely on these soundbites for your view you will, sadly, be like one invited to a multi course dinner, who takes a mouthful of the first course- then leaves
So NT Wright doesnt believe the Bible is God breathed. Thats interesting. All about 'the writers'.
Well the point is, he’s not a Christian. He’s an academic riding on the wings of man’s wisdom
@@psalm1197 what is a Christian?
It’s a short video only, but sounds like an introduction to preterism to me. Please tell me I have misread the intent?
He wouldn't be a full preterist.
I’m sincere in asking this. How do we say that John writes this with his own imagery and knowledge. Isn’t this Holy Spirit inspired? Isn’t John describing what he sees literally as best he can? Isn’t this a vision? Why is there a view that John is using his own perspective or language? I don’t get it.
A Preterist is like a blind man who thinks to teach colors.
I'm thinking of buying a hobby horse, breaking it, and then putting it up in my living room. When folks ask me what happened to it, I'll tell them "exegesis".
I think the images are transported out of the old testament. For example, sun, moon and stars. Josephs dream he told his brothers, father and mother. They understood exactly what Joseph was saying. The sun, moon and stars would bow down to him. Tells us right there in the text. Sun, moon and stars in Revelation is the (Joseph's Dad, Mum, and brothers) - the Jews/Israel.
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman [a church] clothed with the sun, [light of the gospel] and the moon [shadows of the old covenant law] under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: [12 tribes / 12 Apostles]
{Revelation 12:1}
@@larrybedouin2921Larry, can you explain how the church can give birth to the Messiah, as per the following verses?
The woman is National Israel, the sun her glory, 12 stars dominion regained and Israel restored, moon speaks of dominion hence 'at her feet'
@@brentwalsh786
And the dragon was wroth with *the woman* and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, *and have the testimony of Jesus Christ*
{Revelation 12:17}
^
The church
@@larrybedouin2921 'And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went off to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus.' I know many brothers and sisters who have the same view as you on these verses. However, I believe it says the 'REMNANT OF HER SEED, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS', is the church. Not the woman herself.
Since, the whole existence of Israel was to bring forth the 'promised seed of Abraham who would rule the nations with a rod of iron'. Even though, through their own prophets, they were revealed to be a 'stiff necked people' always going astray.
And that the verses 5 - 12 describe Jesus' crucifixion and subsequent victory over Satan, "The salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the ruling authority of his Christ, have now come" verse 10, and not some future event of the last days. Though, in fact, the 'last days' are the time period from the ratification of the new covenant through the Lamb of God, until the end, as even the apostles wrote they were in the last days. Cheers
Think we must be honest, all the backpatting talk here from an amillenial point of viewpoint doesn't answer the questions raised in the Revelation just because we or someone else says so. Neither does it answer the prophets, or Christ's claims, except they also are seen as allegorical comments! Where do we stop? is Christ's death and resurrection purely allegorical? Or all the other narrative just pure allegory, such as the Great Flood, or creation? It's like turning the truth into a spiritual homeopathy!
That Revelation is about new creation is an oversimplification. Chapters 4-20 is about judgment, struggle, suffering. New creation doesn't come until chapter 20. So, it is about much more than new creation which is the culmination. Chapters 4 on are not about now. Why would John need to tell them symbolically about that which they already knew. It is all coming. So, what is it? That is where hermeneutics comes in. It is all in the future. It has nothing to do with the Babylonian captivity or the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD that was history when John wrote the book. Chapters 2-3 is the already; chapters 4-22 is the not now.
Read Genesis 1. Read Rev 21. All the rest is rock n roll😂
What if these writings were mistaken?
I think they are. The puzzle pieces do not fit.
What do you do with John 14:1-3. We will be where Jesus is and prepared a place for us.
Solid!
Millennial Puzzle:
My view of the Millennium agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thess. 1:7-10, when Paul said Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel. The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20.
My view agrees with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13, when Peter said this earth is going to burn and "dissolve" when He comes as a thief on the day of the Lord. The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20.
My view agrees with what Paul said in 2 Tim. 4:1, when Paul said both the living and the dead will be judged at His appearing. The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others is found in Rev. 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. (This verse also proves the Book of Rev. is not in chronological order.) The judgment of the dead is also found at the end of Rev. chapter 20.
My view agrees with what Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46, where He described the judgment of the sheep and goats, which leaves no mortals alive on the planet at the end of the passage.
My view agrees with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness.
My view agrees with what John recorded in Rev. 9:1-2, when an angel comes down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit. Are there wicked angels already in the pit in Rev. 9:11? John recorded angels already "bound" in Rev. 9:14. The beast "ascends" out of the pit in Rev. chapter 11, which means the beast was in the pit before that time.
Take all of the above and compare it to the symbolic language found in Rev. chapter 20 and you will have the truth.
The Bible does say that there will be a new heaven and a new earth. Whether God destroys the old earth and creates a new one might not matter much, however, you can be sure that the new earth will have absolutely no resemblance to the one we live on today. We won't be able to go visit Paris or go and check out the old neighbourhood. Yes, we will still have our memories, that is imperative. Just remember boys, there's no sex on the new earth. Can you handle that?
You don't know what you're saying.
If there is still sin and temptations in the world then satan is not yet bound in chains of circumstance.
The first four verses of Revelation ch. 1 explains what the book is about. It is a revealing of truth, written in signs/symbols (made more plain in the original Greek), of things that will immediately start to happen. Its messenger is clearly John, and he is instructed by Jesus to deliver this message to seven churches in Asia, who is the intended audience. Whatever this book means, its interpretation must be relevant to those specific individuals who, in the first century, were members of one of those seven churches in Asia. To make the meaning of this book about things several thousand years later in defiance of what the text actually says is to not pay attention at all to the text. Words really do mean things.
After the scroll is opened its a covenantal judgement on apostate Israel , it is fulfilling the song of Mosses Due 32 which tells Israel what their end will be they are the Harlot their city is Mystery Babylon
I've read NT since the early '90's. He has changed. Not going to debate his presentation. I would just suggest if someone is interested in a real exegetical study of the book, take a gander at Robert Thomas' 2 vol (1600 pages) exegetical commentary on Rev. Therein is commentary for both the lay person and at the end of each section, a Greek exegetical analysis. Highly readable. He explains it chronologically plus explains how it was understood by the early churches. Daniel's rev was said to be sealed until the later days but Rev was to be open and comprehended from the moment it was read to the 7 churches.
There is a comment here by a Jewish believer who rightly objects the plain OT references in Rev being abducted by all too many who do not allow scripture to interpret scripture. How can you understand Rev 12 without referring back to the OT? It all comes down to hermeneutics. There is no justification for using any methodology other than what Jesus and the writers of the scriptures used, that being the normative, the literal, the historic/grammatical hermeneutic whatever label you want to assign to it.
@leefury7
"There is no justification for using any methodology other than what Jesus and the writers of the scriptures used, that being the normative, the literal, the historic/grammatical hermeneutic whatever label you want to assign to it."
Exactly!!!!
And that approach proves both MacArthur and N.T. Wright to be wrong. This historical gramatical hermeneutical approach when applied to eschatology in the same way it is applied to every other doctrine leads directly to Historical Premillennialism (post-tribulation return of Christ and 1,000 year reign on earth).
I mean if it's what the Apostle John (The guy who wrote the book of Revelation to start with) taught HIS disciples, then it's good enough for me....especially when historical gramattical hermeneutics lead to the exact same position.
@@richardnicely5573 Well Christ does return *to earth* after the 7 yr Trib but He comes *in the air* prior to the Trib to catch up His Bride/the Church to be with Him while wrath is poured out on the earth.
@@leefury7
You said: "Well Christ does return to earth after the 7 yr Trib but He comes in the air prior to the Trib to catch up His Bride/the Church to be with Him while wrath is poured out on the earth."
I thought you said that you believed in historical/grammatical hermeneutics?
You can't follow that hermeneutical approach AND still believe in a pre-trib rapture. (Unless like most dispensationalists you just choose not to read the parts that contradict what you choose to believe)
There's only ONE return of Christ. It's described in Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, 1 Thessalonians 4, and 1 Corinthians 15.
If there's another additional return of Christ anywhere in the Bible, please give me a scripture reference.
Great stuff!
I would like to know what N T Wright thoughts are on the Mark Of The Beast is? And Who is the Beast in History and now?
Book Amos shines a light on this
Nero
I'm not Bishop Wright nor do I know his answer to this question. However, if you will permit me a comment drawing from the Torah:
First, notice that the mark of the beast in Rev 13 is balanced against the mark of the Lamb in Rev 14:1; a mark occurs both among the righteous and the unrighteous.
Second, notice that both passages recall the Shema, the central prayer of Judaism, which can be found in Deuteronomy 6:4-9 and surrounding. Deut 6:8 commands them to write the words of YHWH "as a sign upon your hand, and ...as frontlets between your eyes." The command there is about whole-hearted devotion; the writer in Deuteronomy is explaining what utter devotion to YHWH looks like in practical terms.
Jews of the first century would have recognized the language of Rev 13, the mark on the forehead and the hand, as recalling the Shema, and would therefore have recognized the "mark of the beast" language as metaphor denoting devotion to the world system or the flesh. By contrast, the "mark of the Lamb" would have been taken as denoting devotion to the Messiah and his kingdom. He's saying that the world recognizes its own and makes allowance for them to prosper in the world system, but that the sons of the Kingdom stand apart and behave differently.
(You might find a parallel to the parable of the unjust steward in Luke 16:1-9, but that's debatable. You might also find a parallel in Matthew 6:19-24, "you can't serve both God and Mammon." Again, debatable, but I think you get the idea.)
The Beast could be metaphoric, and could be anybody who epitomizes the world system. Bill Gates comes to mind, but he's by far not the only one.
@@beckyfoster89 nope
@@Stilgar74 Yes!
John was writing in Greek, he was thinking in Hebrew. Yes, Nero’s name comes out to 1005 in Greek! But not if you calculate the Hebrew transliteration of his name, which is Nrwn Qsr. If you apply gematria to the Hebrew transliteration of his name, it comes out to exactly 666! Coincidence???
Explains what is wrong with the Anglican Church these days.
“Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.”
1 Thessalonians 4:17-18 NASB1995
Why does Jesus call Christians up to meet the Lord in the air (RAPTURE IS LATIN FOR CAUGHT UP) if they’re just gonna come back down at the same time?
In many of the parables, it reveals the bridegroom coming and is met with by five wise virgins as they go out to meet him and then return with him to the hall and close the doors. Other parables echo this same imagery.
Jewish wedding symbolism:
(A gospel within the gospel)
"Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, believe also in me.
In my Father's house (in heaven) are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I WILL COME AGAIN, and receive you unto myself; *that where I am* there (in heaven) you may be also.
And where I go you know, and the way you know."
Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Jesus saith unto him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: *no man* comes unto the Father (who art in heaven), *but* by me."
{John 14:1-6}
--The time of the wedding was determined by the bridegroom's father and at the time determined by the father the bridegroom would fetch his bride and bring her back to his place prepared for them at his father's house.
And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
{Revelation 8:1}
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men
{2 Peter 3:7} (Jer 4:23-28, Zeph 3:6)
....
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
{2 Peter 3:13}
--The resurrected saints will enter in the gates of heaven into the new Jerusalem, that has been prepared for us *in heaven*
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
{Revelation 22:14}
(But *the rest of the dead* lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection.
{Revelation 20:5}
^
No man left alive on earth, after Jesus Christ comes again.
Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus will raise up us also by Jesus, and will present us with you (in heaven).
{2 Corinthians 4:14}
To the end [objective] he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness *before* God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ *with all his saints*
{1 Thessalonians 3:13}
(The time of the wedding feast)
"But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you IN MY FATHER'S KINGDOM."
{Matthew 26:29}
--The saints, after the thousand years (tabernacle) in heaven, the saints of God will descend with the Father and the Son and the host of heaven, with the new city and we will be spectators in our Creator's new six day creation of the new heavens and of the new earth. (Rev 21:1, Is 66:22-23, Zach 8:3, 14:4)
And the goat (scapegoat) will bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land NOT INHABITED: and he will release the goat in the wilderness.
{Leviticus 16:22}
And when the thousand years are expired, satan (the literal Azazel the scapegoat) will be loosed out of his prison, (also chains of circumstance.)
(The resurrection of the condemnation.)
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
And will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, GOG and MAGOG, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and DEVOURED them.
{Revelation 20:7-9}
And the saints will sing;
O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory?
{1 Corinthians 15:55}
--Like the children of Israel, the saints will have a dispensation (time) of tabernacle with God the Father and with his Son, our Lord Jesus Christ in heaven, before the inheritance (and our eternal kingdom, and home in the country) is given to the saints.
This being the new heavens and the new earth, that the nation of Israel symbolized in the type of the end time greater reality.
These [The Patriarchs] all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed THAT THEY WERE STRANGERS AND PILGRIMS ON THE EARTH.
For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
But now they desire a better country, THAT IS AN HEAVENLY: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: *for he hath prepared for them a city*
{Romans 11:13-16}
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for GREAT IS YOUR REWARD IN HEAVEN: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
{Matthew 5:12}
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, *we have a building of God* an house not made with hands, eternal *in the heavens*
{2 Corinthians 5:1}
The Bible says we have to return with him. How can we return with him, if we don't go up and meet him.
Think about it, Jesus is coming back physically not spiritually, which means he can only be in one place at one time within his body (presumeably Jerusalem)
So, if every Christian around the world is going to be changed and meet with him and return to Jerusalem together.....we would have to go up and meet him in the air during his return (exactly as Paul described in 1 Thessalonians 4:17) it's also what Jesus himself refers to in the Olivet Discourse:
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
Matthew 24:29-31
"they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other"
It's the same thing. Here he says the Lord will descend on the clouds, with his angels and the sound of the trumpet and gather his elect in the air.
That's EXACTLY the same thing Paul talked about that you guys call the rapture.....and Jesus clearly says it happens AFTER the tribulation.
@@richardnicely5573 - I believe in pretrib. There are many scriptures that could be used to argue for pre, mid, or post. I believe Pre-Trib has the most evidence. Ultimately, the question is, “are you born again?” In the end we will all discover that we are not as smart as we think we are.
@@davidwiles7475 "There are many scriptures that could be used to argue for pre, mid, or post."
but that's kind of the point....there really aren't.
If there were any scriptures that support a rapture you guys wouldn't have to twist the scriptures about the Lord's return to turn them into a "rapture".
1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 is as clear as can possibly be to anyone that reads it without a bunch of pre-suppositions trying to find some hidden meaning.
It's about the return of the Lord, and us meeting him in the air during his return.
It's narcissistic to take a passage that's so obviously about the Lord's return and make it about us.
What really takes the cake is that most dispensationalists - in my experience - have never heard the word "dispensational." They have no idea that their beliefs have a name, and they have no idea that it's not the only Christian POV available. Yet they spout it like it's just an established fact.
Huh...is that a fact? No need to reply. Just having a little fun with words. Blessings, Fridge3489!
Well, you have to look at the book of Revelation in conjunction with the book of Daniel. I do not agree with his view, but I guess we are all seeking the Lord and hopefully we will know the truth some day. That day may also be sooner than many would think. There are too many prophecies that are pointing to this time in which the world will experience things never before seen. At lease these guys are talking about things such as the Rapture of the Church, so in a way they are teaching people about it, so when it happens, many would know and would not fall for the lies of Satan and his followers.
Okay, so when believers die - before the kingdom comes - you have to come with an "explanation of where does the soul & spirit go when the body dies"? Do they not go to heaven? Unbelievers? Go to hell? Oh, my, we talk about hell. Where then? And then the picture of Jesus coming from heaven back to earth with the saints in Rev chapter 19 - well, that needs to be "explained away" too, right? It is true that when I talk with people about the truth that Jesus' kingdom will be established on earth - most become confused. They have the notion that when they die, they go to heaven and that's where they will be for eternity. Again, this shows the enormous lack of Biblical knowledge - especially about the book of Revelation. Why don't people read it? "Oh, it's so confusing". Why don't pastors teach it? They too are confused by it, so they avoid it.
American-ism has swung them too extreme with their exceptionalism, like why suffer when our greatest excludes us from harm.
The Bible has a scripture on that.
Nice take!!!
@@willielee5253 our greatest suffered and died for us
@kathyern861 Revelation is not an easy book, James 1:5 by way of the Lord is one's best out, otherwise we'll just fumble about and then just drop it altogether.
It's like a convoluted puzzle lacking a few pieces. The Spirit of Wisdom and Patience, the missing fill ends is needed.
❤️❤️Thanks for posting ❤️❤️
@@willielee5253 Everyone begins their new lives in Christ as milk drinkers. Some take intentional and earnest steps and as a result they become meat eaters. Others do not and remain baby milk drinkers of scripture their entire lives. Sad.
@kathyern861 So true!!! The more a person wants the more He will give.
NT Wrong on so many levels. Genesis/the doctrine of imputation/rapture/revelation and probably more, when you stumble on the foundations of our faith Gen 1-11 you get pretty much everything wrong.
Another Anglican spiritualising the Jewish Bible. Revelation is the gospel of Jesus as dictated to John. Your kingdom come (full stop) Your will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. The new Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven, does not mean the ALL of Heaven comes down to Earth. The Capital of Heaven descends onto a completely recreated location. Once you allegorise most of the Bible as Anglicans do, you can read anything you like into the text to suit your purposes. If the Lamb is now ruling the Earth, why are we fighting Principalities and powers, why is Lucifer described as the lord of the air and the earth at this time? Why is a tribulation imminent or even necessary? And why is it that NT is totally ignorant of the symbolism of the Galilean wedding with the Church as the bride of Jesus and the full meaning of Jesus words at the last supper? As the bridegroom coming for his bride?
I respectfully beg to differ with N.T. Wright on the extent of Jewish knowledge. Almost to a man they were lost with Messianic prophecy. I mean pretty much everyone and their Aunt Petunia. John seemed a bit lost during his visions having attempted to kneel down and worship an angel at which point he was admonished for doing. Even so, some or perhaps even much of the symbolic language would be something they would have been exposed to with prior scripture revelation.
Nt Wright is just a blowhard. Loves the sound of his own. voice. Another one educated beyond his intelligence
Revelation 13:1-10 the (conglomerate) beast from out of the sea.
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and *ten horns* and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
And the beast which I saw was like unto *a leopard* and his feet were as the feet of *a bear* and his mouth as the mouth of *a lion* and *the dragon* gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
{Revelation 13:1-2}
Greek > philosophy
Persian > religious sects and monachism
Babylonian > sun worship (Mithraism)
Roman > law
Maybe I didn't understand what he said, but it seems like he just disregarded everyting about revelation and the occurrences mentioned, making it sound like it didn't or won't happen.
Has the rapture happened? Will it happen? Has Jesus come down in a cloud, will He, will He not? Or is all that just a story to a jew in desert somewhere?
Afro X: Your first 7 words were correct
@@chaddonal4331 That's so informative hey. You should really consider going into teaching. NOT! 🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿
@@afrox4320 No, seriously. Try to actually listen to him. Rewind. Take notes. Your mocking is your cover for not listening or seeking to understand. No teacher can help with that.
@@chaddonal4331 as long as we are in agreement that you should steer clear of any environment that has to do with teaching, then I believe this to have been a some what... Fruitful conversations.
Notice those sentences with tings that look like this "?" at the end? They are questions. You didn't answer any of them. Bu Lt at least you didn't waste an opportunity to show off how clueless you are about the actual subject matter but feel good about yonself by pretending to be clever. 🤷🏿♀️ Congratulations. You've added zero value to my queries. Zero!
@@chaddonal4331 as fi the accusation of mocking. Cheap shot! Project much lately? If you were as clever as you pretend to be, I'd ask you to show me which part is mocking. But then again - like the horrible teacher you are - you'd probably advise me to listen and take notes. Because my queries were clearly answered and I just wasn't listening, or taking notes. 🤦🏿♀️🤦🏿♀️🤦🏿♀️
A piece of advice from me. If you agree with someting someone says. Or even understand it as well as you pretend, share the wisdom is you have it. If you don't. Hush up and let those who understand it better than you, give their understanding.
Don't be out here catching feelings and assuming tings about people with questions! Don't be so insecure! It's not necessary. Unless yon understanding is as fragile as you depict it to be. Leave yon ego out of intellectual matters. 😉
And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
{Revelation 17:15}
The seven headed beast of Revelation 17:
The seven heads are symbolic of seven kingdoms, starting with the beast of Daniel chapter 7
1st < Babylon
2nd < Medo-Persia
3rd < Greece
4th < Pagan Rome
5th < Papal Rome; the little horn
("that was" & "is not" & "yet is")
6th < "one is"
^
The woman that rides the beast is in captivity at the time of John's vision, AFTER receiving the deadly wound from the (atheist) beast from the bottomless pit [Rev 11:7]. This is the beast of THE TIME of John's vision IN THE WILDERNESS.
(Meaning that John is in the wilderness in his vision and not physical on Patmos, and he sees a beast that would come up from out of this wilderness. Read Job 38:26.)
The 7th < "is not yet come"
At the time of John's vision *in the wilderness* this head of the beast was yet to come; this is *the beast from out of the earth* [Rev 13:11];
(And he shall exercise all of the power of the first beast...) when this beast will speak like a dragon.
This beast must continue a short time, as per the others before him.
I believe by the testimony of Jesus, that we are now living in that "short time".
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
{Revelation 17:8}
:11...even he is the eighth, AND IS OF THE SEVEN, and ascends out of the bottomless pit and goes into perdition.
--There are seven heads at the time of John's vision, five kings/heads/beast are fallen, so this eighth is of the seven kingdoms...."that was"...."and is not"...."yet is" AND received a deadly wound; AND his deadly wound was healed.
This wound is the loss of her (the woman/church that rides the beast.) temporal sword (also her captivity), which is the earthly secular world kingdom.
This is the image of the beast (that great city), who like Babylon of antiquity, who thinks to usurp church and state craft.
The number eight is a metaphor for the resurrection. The eighth is resurrected from a former head of the seven; the 5th head that received a deadly wound.
(When he shall go into perdition: this will be the final dispensation of this beast with seven heads, that is a metaphor for satan.)
Jesus;
(The resurrection; Jn 11:25) Ἰησοῦς/Iēsous = 888
by counting the letter values of the Greek transliteration;
I(10), E(8), S(200), O(70), U(400), S(200).
In antiquity the mountain was not only a metaphor for a kingdom, but it was also symbolic of the head of a (river) dragon that was symbolic of a river that flows out from a mountain, after the spring thaw and overflowing its banks, spreading out in the form of the dragon's tail.
The color is scarlet because it is symbolic of the blood of the saints of the Lord.
A woman in prophecy is always a metaphor for a church, in this case (Jezebel) it is the fallen temple of God.
The false prophet, a lamb (Christ like) with two horns, and/but will speak like a dragon (a wolf in sheep's clothing), will be the beast (from out of the earth ... the USA) that will make an image unto the first beast from out of the sea, who received a deadly wound and his deadly wound was healed.
The two horns are a metaphor for two (equal) kingdoms in one, church and state craft.
Medo-Persia also is expressed as having two horns [Dan 8:3], but one was higher, (Persia) and eventually usurps the other.
This is the image of the first beast from out of the sea (Papal Rome). Once the wall of separation of church and state is lost, then will the second beast from out of the earth become the image of the first beast, who claims the authority of both church and state.
Even so, come Lord Jesus. Amen.
Armageddon by Bart Ehrman most enlightening
I woild appeal to you to consider that though he has done good work on the resurrection . . . . . . .
IT DOES NOT FOLLOW that he has done good work on any other subject.
his hatchet job on Paul and his totally irrational straw man misrepresentation of imputation as some kind of transfer of a reified righteousness are cases in point. he twisted imputation like this in order to reject it
and that is rank heresy.
as for this subject here it is self evident that revelation uses symbolism.
but if he denies a 7 year period at the end he rejects Daniels 70 weeks and of course she is appealing to symbolism in scripture to justify rejecting stuff he does not like
he is that malevolent voice which whispered to eve "has God said?"
But he’s not a Christian so he already stands condemned….we don’t have to condemn him
Wonderful video! I am an evangelical who does not believe in the dispensational rapture.
there is no rapture of the church
i am no dispensationalist. The rapture by its logic HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DISPENSATIONALISM.
if NTW denies a literal catching up he is violating scripture for the key verse is most plain about us being caught up in the air
@@onceamusician5408 There will be a literal catching up, but it will be the end of human history, not part of a two-phase return. Nobody thought of the latter until Darby came along and began preaching dispensationalism.
The disciples themselves thought his return could be imminent.
@@troy4544 but never believe in the rapture of the church alone :) Yes many believe in Christ imminent return but 2Peter3 teach another story: v.3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation. v.8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. (This never happens)
Is Revelation an example of the genre of first century Jewish apocalyptic literature? Or is the book of Revelation exactly what it claims to be, ie. "the revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw"? It is not a revelation OF Jesus, it is a revelation FROM Jesus. It is a prophecy of the future given by Jesus to an angel who gives it to John while he is in exile in Patmos. Lets not diminish its significance with preconceived 21 century theological interpretation. NT Wright is not a breath of fresh air, but the stale wind of man-made theology.
Wonderful comment.
satan is not Bound now, as he's being held in Heaven & his spirit is in the world. But he will be kicked out of Heaven to the Earth in person, as he comes to Earth at the 6thTrump looking like a lamb. During this Millenium Time Of Teaching, he will be BOUND IN THE Pit, & loosed at the End for a short while to once again gather all those who love him & They will Perish with him.
Gnosticism qua the morbid fatalism of Dispensationalism. Indeed.
Wright gets the beginning wrong, so naturally he won’t be right about the ending either.
I will believe I Thessalonians 4:16 ff which says
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore, comfort one another with these words.
Wright can believe what he likes. he too lazy and too arrogant to find out what the Bible ACTUALLY SAYS. so i have no regard for him
Many ,myself included ,would argue that the hat fits you!
Wright fulminates against dispensationalists but never answers the real quesin people's minds: where are the dead in Christ now?
Definitely in Heaven having eternal life. We are to die but be raised to eternal life through the Saviour, our Lord Jesu.
Yes, and coming with Him when He comes on the clouds.We will be united with our glorified bodies and will reign with Jesus in the new heaven and new earth.Hallelujah!
Read Surprised by Hope
I hold to the teaching of the catching away of the Bride of Christ, before the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. The subject of the Rapture is one of innumerable issues thriught the Old and New Testaments, MUST be viewed through the eyes of the Hebrew roots that God set down in.
Sadly with all of the education that Wright has, somehow, Holy Spirit has not opened his heart or mind to the Jewish nature of God, of Jesus/Yeshua, which is recapitulated in such careful detail throughout Revelation and it's interweaving of Daniel and the entire Old Testament.
How many Christians know the Gospel given in Jeremiah 30 and toward? How many of the +20,000 Protestant Christian denominations set any priority on going to Jews before other "church" efforts? Why do Catholics create some unscriptural calculation for the day to celebrate Jesus' resurrection? When it was clearly set to be on Passover?
It is sad that after 3 years of your fine video short on the views of Wright, only about 200 viewers feel confident enough to comment on this topic, which has become controversial, as the "modern mind" in societies around the world feel the concept is so unusual, and unlike any other religious doctrine known .
Mr Wright clearly shows he is aware of the language and idiosyncratic aspects of Paul's language, but fails to consider Paul's inherent Jewish education under Gamaliel, the delicate references to Jewish language context that Scripture was taught in the time of Jesus and of Paul.
The record of Jesus' miraculous acts in Scripture start what? Creating the celebratory wine for a Jewish wedding feast. The parables Jesus' taught with including the one called the 10 virgins, deals with a procession of a Jewish wedding party. In Judaism, once the promise of marriage is made, the groom would go and build a place for he and his bride to live often simply adding on a room to a family home. Jesus' return to Earth after His resurrection, is a manifold fulfillment of promises and plans from Scripture, anchored solidly, clearly in Jewish traditions God gave and/or approved of. - As Jesus approved of the Feast of Lights/Haunukkah not given at Sinai.
I'm a feeble bible scholar. I respect Mr. Wright's lifelong continued study and teaching of the Gospel. Yet there clearly remains this absence of the sense-making, unifying factor of the ancient concepts, practices and doctrines, with the documented prophecy of future fulfillment of all Jesus' words and plans. Even if Wright fails to see, or refuses to study or admit the facts, the Rapture is simply coherent, direct fulfillment of Jewish marriage feast principles and practices, including those explicitly endorsed that fellow who seems to keep popping up in the New Covenant (promised by God, through Jeremiah, yes another one of those Jewish guys.
I truly hope Mr. Wright doesn't miss the opportunity to see and experience the joyous, multifaceted beauty, salvation, fulfillment of promises that God has set before any who will believe, including the undeniable, logical reasonable, and foretold Marriage Supper of the Lamb, and the Groom's keeping His promise that the faithful will never suffer the wrath of God for unrepentant sinners.
Listen to the beautiful, well indexed audio teaching. Free on web, of Messianic Perspectives, from Christian Jew Foundation. Read the scholarly books and teaching of Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum, of Ariel Ministries. The world and tragically the vast majority of "the Church" know sonlittle about the regathering of the multitudes of Israel to be regathered to that very real geographic place of Israel, where the Savior of Humanity was killed, and was resurrected, fully in detailed accord with scriptural prophecies dating from the oldest book of the Bible, Job, to the last book of Scripture we yet know of Revelation. It's all a Jewish or Hebraic tradition, with all the grace extended to non-Jews.
It would only be polite of Wright to spend a weekend or two, between public denials of Scripture and doctrines he's ignorant of, to review scholars' work such as Dr. Fruchtenbaum's and others in the Messianic Jewish/Christian school. Recall Jesus said, "what you do to the least of these you do to Me."?
I'm confident there will be no ill effect on the great brain and mind of Mr Wright if he only slightly increases the scope and depth and range of his knowledge by just another, fundamental span. (It might be another revolution or "move of the Holy Spirit" within the 7 types of Churches we have been given as models - where only 2 come out as really paying attention for the whole time.)
Is this an insurmountable challenge to one who must surely know that Jesus restores and keeps us all? For all our sakes, and the sakes of our generation's heirs, I hope he "gives it a go."
We are not the Bride of Christ, we are guests at the Wedding Supper of the Lamb. The New Jerusalem is Christs Bride.
I dont doubt your sincerity, but I do have problems with your dispensationalism. And the exegetical gymnastics it requires. Darby, Scofield et al and their gnostic ideas have crippled Americans - and reduced the gospels scope and power. The promise to Abraham is that Gods family would extend to all nations. Read the end of Acts. Drop the dead donkey of Christian Zionism and the ghastly adherences to violence it brings, you have more in common with an Arab Christian than anyone who claims Abraham is their father - until they too become new creatures in Christ.
This man has done more damage to Anglicans than anyone else. The book of Revelation is the gospel of Christ as dictated to John. He is not Wright, he is wrong, wrong, wrong.
He has I would argue , done exactly the reverse of what you say. He understands the inaugurated enacted eschatology of the Kingdom of God. His writings are outstanding. Thus his critics. He draws light into the darkened room of American dispensationalism ,and its unfortunate fellow travellers of Christian Zionism and prosperityspeak. I wonder which of his many books you are acquainted with?
He must teach at the Laodecian church
Okay, that's funny. It always baffles me when people don't take NT Wright seriously, but your snark is refreshing 👍
NT Wright as facile and too clever. He dismantles scripture before your eyes in a subtle and disturbing way.@@ChipAltmanxD
Jesus called the church.
(Sorry for the VERY long "comment". But I believe it NEEDS to be espoused)
Kind Sir Mr N.T. Wright...the're untold "wrongs" (errors); in ALL bibles. IE...
Compare Deuteronomy 24:1 vs Matthew 19:3-8. And, Matthew 1:1 vs John 8:58 and Matthew 22:41-45. Then, James 2:17 vs Ephesians 2:8-9. And Hebrews 10:26 vs Mark 3:28-29, ETC! all over! Sad, but OH so True!. Dadgum satan😈!
For there is contradictions and errors😈, etc; from Gen to Rev. And the most errors are in Deuteronomy, Daniel and Revelation. It took me 16 yrs of study, research and prayers; to finally understand those 3 Books. And the rest of the bible also...
But thanks to Jesus; I now know most of the errors😈; and I can believe most of the truths* from Jesus 😇! Praise His Holy Name❤....
...in any case Mr Wright and Brethren, Please Pray OFTEN and Praise Jesus OFTEN; for He is the ONLY true "God Almighty"; there will ever have been. And may Jesus bless you and yours always. AMEN!
* I am still seeking "Golden Truths" from Jesus; and spitting at "Fools-gold" from satan. Promulgated in hell!
😂 the Bible says woe to them who take away or add to the prophecies of this book it says that in Revelation they will have their part in the lake of fire cuz they will have their names written or taken out of the book because of it so let's not add or take away but let's receive the truth and the truth will set us free and the holy Spirit reveals All truth if we truly are seeking the truth so let's love 💕🙏 the truth amen pray 🙏 always
All of proper eschatology depends on when people give a study of Revelation chapter 11. Many will be ashamed of their teachings when they are left behind and see the future 3rd temple in Jerusalem with Rev 11 2. And many left behind will see 2 prophets appear in Jerusalem. Prove me wrong. Post a study of Revelation chapter 11 here and what I am saying will be proven to be true. Do not make a joke of the text in God's Word. Post a study of Revelation chapter 11 here.
So we’ve been in the ‘now and not yet’ engagement period for 2000 years? The BOR was written before the old Jerusalem was destroyed, to be replaced by the new bride.
Yes according to Revelation 23:4f: “Hey guys, Jesus here. Just popping in to say that all that stuff I said earlier about coming very soon was figurative, it’ll be more like 2,000 years before I come again - until then it will be what Daniel referred to in Daniel 13:666, the eternal ‘now and not yet’.”
@@truthequalsfreedom7 there is no chapter 23. Jesus came in judgement with a rod of iron within a generation, just like he said he would.
@@mikeworsley1773 no! According to Revelation 40:2, “Once again, it’s me, Jesus, popping in to remind you that absolutely none of these time statements about me coming very very soon should be taken seriously by anyone in the 1st century, I actually intend them for a future audience in the 21st century. I’ll come sometime around then when there’s an eclipse and set up a new temple with animal sacrifice in Jerusalem after I rapture all the Protestants into heaven. See also Daniel 16:7.”
@@truthequalsfreedom7 thus spake John MacArthur
@@mikeworsley1773 lol yea and pretty much every Protestant since the Deformation because heaven forbid the New Jerusalem aka the Church came down from heaven before the establishment of Luther’s, Calvin’s, Zwingli’s, Henry VII’s, MacArthur’s, Pipers, or Olsteen’s “church”
1 Corinthians 1:27
King James Version
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
King James Version
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The Bible is literal, it has repeatedly prophesied of things that have happened, the rapture is real and can happen any day.
Love and blessings
Jeff
2:12 I strongly disagree. The writer is not "pulling together Biblical imagery"; John, the writer, is writing down what is being revealed directly to him by sight and by sound. He is not deciding for himself to "pull from" Psalm 2, for example. This is a heretical view of the Scriptures, that N.T. Wright speaks of -- where man decides the contents of the inspired Word of God. Later on, you ask, "Is the rapture Biblical?" Well, because it is written specifically by Paul, we must conclude that it is - however, it is called "our gathering together with Him". The main point though is to keep it in context by asking a question. What happens to those who are alive when the graves of all who died in Christ are risen with new bodies? All who are alive in Christ, at that moment will be changed and also be given new bodies - at Jesus' return, NOT in a secret rapture. There is no conflict here between what is taught about an Earthly reign and the doctrine of Heaven.
@forexpivots, Seriously speaking, if you gave a point by point outline, biblical Ministers would have a save ground to teach on.
A booklet would do because you are spot on.
Exactly true. NT Wright does a great job of dismantling scripture and stripping it of its prophetic power.
New creation, New Heaven and New Earth are names of the New Covenant Age which began in the first Century. Revelation was events from 67-70AD. We are now in this Age as Gods Spirit came down (21:3) and is in us the city that is continuously open for the nations to come into (21:22-27). The tree is here for healing of the nations meaning salvation in Jesus the lamb (22:1-5). Preterism is the biblical teaching. There are still sinners outside the city (22:14-15). These two chapters are simply the Church age, all walls being town down neither Jew nor Greek, which is here from generation to generation forever (Isaiah 59:21, Ephesians 3:21).
Is there an end to history with this view?
Oh please! The book was written by John in the last decade of the first century and therefore cannot possibly be talking about the events between 33 and 70AD, because John writes it as FUTURE.
Preterism is more scripturally bankrupt than the teachings of the Mormons, Seventh Day Adventist, and Jehovah’s Witnesses put together.
It’s a laughably foolish idea that I simply have no time for. Like Darwinian Evolution.
Your view has one GIANT problem.
Satan is not bound in his chains of circumstance for a thousand years. He hasn't gone any place.
Here is what Christianity gets wrong in the Book of Revelation:
.
Jesus Christ quoting the Messianic Psalm 2 about someone other than himself:
.
Revelation 2:26-27
And to him that conquers and observes my deeds down to the end I will give authority over the nations, 27 and he shall shepherd the people with an iron rod so that they will be broken to pieces like clay vessels ** THE SAME ** as I have received from my Father
.
A man with THE SAME authority as Jesus Christ!
.
A man who will be king of the Nations (Gentiles).
.
.
You know what the Jews did to their king, the king of the Jews.
.
What do you think the Gentiles will do to their own king, the king of the Nations?
.
.
Read Psalm 2
.
.
God would have invented the crucifixion. Jesus needed his execution to be very public and over a long period of time so that He could say what He needed to say; so that he had a lot of witnesses; so that He could endure more than any other human would and do it without sin; so that He could finish it in His own time. Everything about Christ's life was planned out to perfection.
N.T. Wrong
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman [a church] clothed with the sun, [light of the gospel] and the moon [shadows of the old covenant law] under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: [12 tribes / 12 Apostles]
{Revelation 12:1}
Israel per the old testament
@@donhaddix3770
The OT church and the NT church together.
I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman.
{Jeremiah 6:2}
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
{Ephesians 5:23}
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and *his wife* hath made herself ready.
{Revelation 19:7}
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as *a bride* adorned for her husband.
{Revelation 21:2}
“I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.”
And the Spirit and *the bride* say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
{Revelation 22:17}
The true church:
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
{2 Corinthians 11:2}
And the dragon was wroth with *the woman* and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
{Revelation 12:17}
The false church [Jezebel]:
So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
{Revelation 17:3-5}
@@donhaddix3770
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
That *the Gentiles should be fellowheirs* and *of the same body* and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
{Ephesians 3:4-6}
The woman is Israel
YHWH IS NOT FINISHED WITH ISRAEL. HE DOES NOT ABANDON HIS COVENANTS. IT IS ALL ABOUT ISRAEL. THERE ISD A SECOND EXODOUS COMING. AND YES KINGDOM COMES DOWN HERE. AS YESHUA SAID "HJE WHO ENDURES TO THE E-N-D WILL BE SAVED.
I think we need to speak and talk to the sovereignty of The Lord’s spoken prophetic word and not just applied spiritual meaning.
God gave a prophetic blueprint for his people in the OT age they the prophets. From beginning (Abraham) to judgement (AD70). Has he not spoken also to us in the NT age? The problem is we love Rome and the Praise of Man too much. We want ppl to like us, so we settle for post modern philosophies in our doctrines.
Read the reformers and eschatological Historicist of the 1800’s. There was a prophecies Man of Sin, who comes from Rome, the Papacy. There is also an eastern, Greek persecutor that arises against the ppl of God, and that is Islam. History matters and prophecy continues to be fulfilled.
Where is he seeing the Church WHO IS IN HEAVEN is descending on earth ??? It is descending close to God not on earth !!!!!!!!!!!! This is happening when the old earth is no more and the new earth is created.
What do you mean "descending close to God not on earth"?
@@rickdalbey6009 simply what the text say
@@michelhaineault6654You better read it again. It descends out of heaven FROM God.
Revelation 21
2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.
“kings of the earth”
The symbolism of the seven seals are (seven) signatures as per - The ketubah, (“is written”) a Jewish marriage contract.
The seven churches of Revelation gives us clues as to who the witnesses to the contract are.
Ephesus > Adam
Rev 2:5 " Remember therefore from whence you art fallin"...
Smyrna < Noah
Rev 2:8 " These things said the first and the last"...
Pergamos > Abraham
Rev 2:17 ..."and in the stone a new name written,"...
Thyatira > Jacob / Israel
Rev 2:28 "And I will give him the morning star".
Sardis > Moses
Rev 3:3 "Remember therefore how you have received and heard,"...
Philadelphia > David
Rev 3:7 ..."He that have the key of David"...
Laodicea > Jesus Christ the Bridegroom and his bride, the Israel of God.
--All pointing to dispensations of time in order of their time on earth.
"He that have an ear, let him hear what the Spirit [singular] saith unto the churches" [plural].
(Repeated seven times, one for each church)
“I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the church[es]. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.”
{Revelation 22:16}
--One body of Jesus Christ having *seven* dispensations of time (the spiritual condition of Christ church, and judgments....prophetic continuance) during the dispensation of Grace.
Jesus did not believe in a life after death, which is why he tried to raise people from the dead.. What would have been the point, if they were already in heaven?
Jesus certainly believed in life after death. But for Jesus, heaven isn't the goal. Heaven is a restful waiting place for those who are "in Christ." The goal for Jesus is resurrection for each human being and the renewal of the cosmos. The goal is "life after life after death." That said, raising someone back to life is an act of compassion for the one who has loved ones who are still alive. It is also never God's will for anyone to die (at least not at the big level of God's will). Much more could be said about that but I'd point you to Wright's Surprised by Hope or my own book on suffering and the life of Jesus called, Echoing Hope: How the Humanity of Jesus Redeems our Pain.
@@KurtWillems Let me pose a scenarion of understanding -- for your consideration:
Do you think it is accurate to extrapolate from Jesus' "parable" of Lazarus (in the Bosom of Abraham) and the rich man (in torment); to then combine with Jesus' declaration to the thief on the cross about joining Jesus upon death in "paradise", with Jesus' multiple depictions of g'henna -- outer darkness, wailing, smoke, worms, etc. to conclude:
What people have generally taught about going to heaven or hell (for eternity) are actually statements about going to the temporal chambers of hades in the intermediate state; i.e. Paradise and Hell?
And these are distinguished from final states:
i.e. The New Earth, and the Lake of Fire (which, as intended for spiritual -- not mortal beings -- Satan and his demon Beast), may not mean unending torment, but rather an irreversible punishment to utter destruction.).
Thoughts?
He is an allegorical preterist.....
Don't continue to make dispensational talking points directed toward the reformed tradition. When you speak allegorically you should understand the image repersents a real and important reality. In the first instance, the first recipients of the last book of the bible understood the apocalyptic ramifications of the Old Testament imagery, immediately grasping the Revelation message because they knew the Old Testament in general and Daniel 7 in particular. So if we 20 ceturies later wish to understand the Apocalypse seek out the original audience!!!!!
In which I agree.
Says the man that doesnt get the gospel right and denies penal substitution which is the heart of the gospel.
NT Wright has never denied penal substitution. This is a short clip focusing on a very narrow slice of gospel.
NT Wright is a pretarist. He does not believe that Israel's regathering into their land and becoming a sovereign nation in 1948 after 2000 years was a fulfillment of biblical prophesy. Not only does the vast majority of the 'solid' bible teaching churches believe it but most of the population of Jews in Israel believe it. I read his commentary on Rev. and have to part ways with Pastor Wright when it comes to biblical prophesy. I believe in the rapture and the escatalogical view of Rev. We can agree to disagree on these issues and still be united in the faith.
I don't believe it either and I am not a Preterist.
What you and the Anglicans and Protestant's get wrong not just from the book of Revelations but from the entire kjv book because it is not a bible, first of all is that you read it Subjectively from your own perspective, that is wrong. It should be read Subjectively from the Authors perspective it is then that you will see the truth, but for thexfullness of truth in a real Bible get one that has 73 book in it not 66, get yourself a Douay-Rheims Bible. Then, your eyes will be opened to the truth.
N T Wright's arrogance appears to know no bounds. He always appears to think that his interpretation is more or less _the_ interpretation. For me he fails to accord to different perspectives the respect that they often- although not always- deserve. The Book of Revelation is notoriously difficult to comprehend and to pretend otherwise is absurd overconfidence.
I think the point is that a lot of theologians refuse to try, and understand the book of Revelation from the perspective of its intended audience. Many Christian’s love to tell other critics of the Bible that some passages are symbolic in order to defend the Bible from being falsified; but when Matthew 24 is brought up they throw that thought out the window.
Watch Voddie Baucham's series on Revelation. Great work.
Its intended audience is Billions of Christians down thru the ages. It is the Bible. It is not simply a message to a small local sect of cultists. @@yesnomaybeso5755
N.T. Wright is just wrong.
So sad NT Wright wrnt woke in a way with some unbiblical views!
Go on Tom. Surprise us and move a mountain by pointing your finger at it. Mark 11 verse 23 and Matthew 21 verses 21-22. Less waffle and more action, please.
Go to John MacArthur from grace to you church for excellent teaching on The end times. More facts with Bible references and less waffle.
As has been said for decades, Dr. MacArthur is not always right, but he's always certain.
(Many mistake his bold clarity for accuracy).
Mc Arthur by his own admission is a "leaky dispensationlist'. My question to the futurist persuasion is very simple, what are futurists going to do when 10, 20, 40 years go by and nothing in their eschatological portfolio happens.!!!! They will and have made terrible excuses for getting it wrong. They are on borrowed time as it is, "example, the state of Israel created in 1948 is the generation that would see all these things, Lk. 21:32, 1948 was 73 years ago, that's nearly 2 generations!!!! Another gotcha moment.!!!! Remember 88 reasons why the rapture will happen in 1988!!!. So it didn't happen. Next: 89 reasons why the rapture will happen in 1989. Same result!!!! I employ you and every believer to find out why this is the state of affairs within the Church.!! I am an orthodox preterist, I make no pretenses or excuses for terrible exegesis of scripture but I'm tired of false notions that never manifest. Know what I mean!!!!
MacArthur… 😂😂😂
Another false prophet
If Satan is bound now I hate to see the world when he was loosed.