Incredibly interesting discussion - - Wow…so many things can affect a translation. It’s certaintly easy to forget when casually reading poems! And haha so cute how you told the story of how you were unfamilar with 寒山.🥰🥰🥰
Thank you. I would let Chris know about your feedback. He'll be happy to know your comment. There is the second part where we analyse different translations of one Cold Mountain's poem. I think you would like it.
I am particularly amazed by how much the exchanges of literature between different cultures impact on each other. Although Chinese literature had a huge impact on Japanese culture during the earlier time, the tide seems completely turned around since the early 20th century. Like I mentioned in my video about the different titles a husband refers to his wife, modern Mandarin imported huge amount of vocabulary from modern Japanese translation from English and other European languages such as 爱人 lover, 民主 democracy, 自由 freedom, 科学 science, and 警察 police, etc. Japanese modernization also had a huge impact on the nation-state building happened during the early 20th century in China. What an amazing world! I would love to hear similar stories from your culture. How exchanges of literature impacted on your culture or your culture impacted on other culture?
As you discussed Han Shan’s not following the poetic forms of the day, I was reminded of the following poem from Red Pine’s translations: “42 I met a brilliant scholar once learned and shrewd without peer his examination fame echoed through the realm his regulated verse surpassed that of others his judgments excelled all those of the past how could he follow in someone else’s dust” now rich and honored he chases wealth and beauty what can you say about broken tiles or melted ice Do I note a hint of distain in his voice towards those who could write with regulated verse? If you like Han Shan, check out Stonehouse.
Thanks for the reference. I would certainly check it out. I have mixed feelings about Han Shan's poems. On one hand, I love the free-spirited monk for his honesty and joy tone expressed in his poetry. On the other hand, some of his poems are really bad for my taste that has been spoiled by poems by Wang Wei, Jiao Ran and other Buddhist poets. Thank you again for sharing this with me and I love to hear from people who share my passion for Chinese poetry!!
Very interesting discussion. It is always nice to hear about lesser known works since I am sure there must be quite a few gems that have been overlooked. Cold Mountain along with Bai Ju yi has been more popular outside China than in China. Are there others who have done better outside? What about places like Korea and Vietnam which also had heavey Chinese influence. Do they have their own favoured Chinese poets? Looking forward to the video on Cold Mountain's poems.
Hi, Jiri, thanks for the thoughtful comments. I am pretty sure there are other poets transmitted to Korea and Vietnam. I know little about them. But I do know a Japanese scholar who passed the Chinese imperial service examination and was appointed as an official at the Tang court. He was also a close friend of both Wang Wei and Li Bai. His name is 阿倍仲麻吕 also known as 晁衡 (698-770). I would like to make a video about him. But his poems are not as good as the many poets I also want to talk about. But I guess 阿倍仲麻吕's poetry would have a different cultural significance than just poetic values. What do you think?
@@dr.gaosclassroom Apart from poetic values poems also provide a glimpse into the society of the time which I find very interesting and instructive. Sometimes one finds a new way of looking at things, sometimes it is reassuring in that we can say- "Oh, they had the same problems we do". So yes, definitely, 阿倍仲麻吕's poetry would be very interesting. I am sure it will provide some insight, some new way of viewing or writing that the better known poets might have missed or not emphasised. As the saying goes- "Too much colour blinds the eye". So, always reading the best poetry might not be such a good idea!!! So, an ocassional poem from lesser known poets or lower ranked officials or ordinary persons might be a good way to put things in perspective. I came across another name recently, 王安石。 Apparently he was the political opponent of Su Dongpo.
You are right. Sometimes reading a not so good a poem will help to show how good the good poems are!! 阿倍仲麻吕 was such an interesting character and his friendship with the great poets of the time highlight how intense the culture exchange of the Tang China and Japan at the time. The situation of politics at the time was quite complicated. 王安石 and 苏东坡 had different political views regarding the reform 王安石 was implementing. The leader of the Conservative Party was 司马光 who lobbied against the reform. 苏轼 was sympathetic to some of 王安石's policy but also supported some of 司马光's objections against 王安石. So 苏轼 alienated both parties.@@jirik2435
Incredibly interesting discussion - - Wow…so many things can affect a translation. It’s certaintly easy to forget when casually reading poems! And haha so cute how you told the story of how you were unfamilar with 寒山.🥰🥰🥰
Thank you. Both of us enjoyed reading Han Shan and translating his poems.
Delightful. I would have enjoyed a couple more hours of this.
Thank you. I would let Chris know about your feedback. He'll be happy to know your comment. There is the second part where we analyse different translations of one Cold Mountain's poem. I think you would like it.
I am particularly amazed by how much the exchanges of literature between different cultures impact on each other. Although Chinese literature had a huge impact on Japanese culture during the earlier time, the tide seems completely turned around since the early 20th century. Like I mentioned in my video about the different titles a husband refers to his wife, modern Mandarin imported huge amount of vocabulary from modern Japanese translation from English and other European languages such as 爱人 lover, 民主 democracy, 自由 freedom, 科学 science, and 警察 police, etc. Japanese modernization also had a huge impact on the nation-state building happened during the early 20th century in China. What an amazing world! I would love to hear similar stories from your culture. How exchanges of literature impacted on your culture or your culture impacted on other culture?
As you discussed Han Shan’s not following the poetic forms of the day, I was reminded of the following poem from Red Pine’s translations:
“42
I met a brilliant scholar once
learned and shrewd without peer
his examination fame echoed through the realm
his regulated verse surpassed that of others
his judgments excelled all those of the past
how could he follow in someone else’s dust”
now rich and honored he chases wealth and beauty
what can you say about broken tiles or melted ice
Do I note a hint of distain in his voice towards those who could write with regulated verse?
If you like Han Shan, check out Stonehouse.
Thanks for the reference. I would certainly check it out. I have mixed feelings about Han Shan's poems. On one hand, I love the free-spirited monk for his honesty and joy tone expressed in his poetry. On the other hand, some of his poems are really bad for my taste that has been spoiled by poems by Wang Wei, Jiao Ran and other Buddhist poets. Thank you again for sharing this with me and I love to hear from people who share my passion for Chinese poetry!!
Very interesting discussion. It is always nice to hear about lesser known works since I am sure there must be quite a few gems that have been overlooked.
Cold Mountain along with Bai Ju yi has been more popular outside China than in China. Are there others who have done better outside? What about places like Korea and Vietnam which also had heavey Chinese influence. Do they have their own favoured Chinese poets?
Looking forward to the video on Cold Mountain's poems.
Hi, Jiri, thanks for the thoughtful comments. I am pretty sure there are other poets transmitted to Korea and Vietnam. I know little about them. But I do know a Japanese scholar who passed the Chinese imperial service examination and was appointed as an official at the Tang court. He was also a close friend of both Wang Wei and Li Bai. His name is 阿倍仲麻吕 also known as 晁衡 (698-770). I would like to make a video about him. But his poems are not as good as the many poets I also want to talk about. But I guess 阿倍仲麻吕's poetry would have a different cultural significance than just poetic values. What do you think?
@@dr.gaosclassroom Apart from poetic values poems also provide a glimpse into the society of the time which I find very interesting and instructive. Sometimes one finds a new way of looking at things, sometimes it is reassuring in that we can say- "Oh, they had the same problems we do".
So yes, definitely, 阿倍仲麻吕's poetry would be very interesting. I am sure it will provide some insight, some new way of viewing or writing that the better known poets might have missed or not emphasised.
As the saying goes- "Too much colour blinds the eye". So, always reading the best poetry might not be such a good idea!!! So, an ocassional poem from lesser known poets or lower ranked officials or ordinary persons might be a good way to put things in perspective.
I came across another name recently, 王安石。 Apparently he was the political opponent of Su Dongpo.
You are right. Sometimes reading a not so good a poem will help to show how good the good poems are!! 阿倍仲麻吕 was such an interesting character and his friendship with the great poets of the time highlight how intense the culture exchange of the Tang China and Japan at the time.
The situation of politics at the time was quite complicated. 王安石 and 苏东坡 had different political views regarding the reform 王安石 was implementing. The leader of the Conservative Party was 司马光 who lobbied against the reform. 苏轼 was sympathetic to some of 王安石's policy but also supported some of 司马光's objections against 王安石. So 苏轼 alienated both parties.@@jirik2435
Do you like the Peter Harris translation of 300 Tang Poems?
I haven't read the translation yet. I think David has. I'll ask his opinion on the translation.