Transfer Case Mount Improvement
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- Continuous improvement, also known as continual improvement (CIP or CI), is a process that involves identifying, analyzing, and making incremental changes.
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"Trickin Pickin" performed by Doug Waterman
Nothing like a boat that's built by the guy who has to fix it. I'm so jealous of the accessibility/removability of all the components large and small, and the on-board shop. It all affects the rate of improvement so much that the starting point is almost irrelevant. In any random episode, you tackle problems that others would try to ignore for years or decades.
It's me again, the CV-joint guy. 😂😂
Make sure the u-joins on the same driveshaft are exactly in phase to cancel out the eliptical uneven accelerations that are inherent to u-joins. Give me a kiss if it fixes your problem. 😂😂😂
We used "jack shafts " to couple elec. Motors to pumps in the paper industry . This is exactly how we set them up and many ran for 25 years with proper lube
This is exactly it, they need to be welded exactly to the same degrees or the acceleration is not constant.. for that you need a Constant Velocity Joint. But it looks like they have the U Joint Phasing done correctly.
@@mk12pickle can't know for sure, one spline off might not be visible from far, or something like 5 degree off because of splines....
@@tanaseav That is true! good point.
Doug you mentioned that you had different sizes of yolks in the 2nd shaft. You always want to use universal joints in pairs that are the same or the joints don't cancel one another's fast/slow rotation exactly as the shaft turns resulting in a slight torsional vibration which finds its way out by causing some difficult to understand spline or gear issue.
Trying to remember each unique system and circuit is my problem. You come back 3 months later and think what the hell did I do here and why ? So I started an instruction guide book on my computer and every change now gets written down, saying why and what other circuits are involved. I now have a little printer for electrical wire and tag them, which is kinda satisfying... Always enjoy your vids ...thanks
Good afternoon Captain! I'm not a certified engineer but a farm engineer. Worked on an old wheel loader, engine change. Opted to set the engine on heavy 1/2 inch rubber pads. The drive to the transmission included a coupler from the flywheel to the driveshaft that used a dozen rubber bushings. The slight amount of wiggle in the motor mounts combined with the wiggle from the rubber bushings in the drive plate to create a powerful moment that actually set the rubber bushings on fire. There wasn't any visible movement in the engine mounts, changed them to solid and all the heat in the drive bushings went away. One spring in your system is dandy but two can create some delightful havoc. Maybe ask Mikey his thoughts.
We shall see.
@@SVSeeker Indeed, YT will tell all :) sometimes you have to test in production!! I was baffled myself for a while
Proof that folks can build their dreams if they do not give up but rather learn as they go. If You build Your dream You can repair it maintain it. I Love this it inspired me to build a chicken coup as part of my ranch / farm I am building up. Thank You
It's crazy how time flies. Watched "Doug and the Seekers" last night, and I cannot believe that I've been watching along with your journey as long as I have. You're an inspiration, and always such a motivation. Crazy that the whole insurance fiasco began 3 years ago!!! Thanks for the awesome content over the years, Doug. Your story truly is one for others to aspire too!
Thank you. I'm glad you have enjoyed the videos.
Has it seriously been that long? It feels like just a couple years ago I'd drive by Doug's house and see the raw steel being built.
Doug, badass as always. Your productivity makes me feel like a sloth. And I’m still achieving a ton! Thanks for putting vids together and always pushing your boat further towards the goal of being the coolest community of kind supportive people around! You’ve got this mate.
Good plan on the damper plate and soft mounts for the transfer case. Damper plates are not just for when you put the box into gear. A diesel engine has a very high impulse load with each cylinder fire. With a 6-cylinder engine, that makes 3- impact loads per revolution. Thing about how your impact gun or driver works to back out a tight bolt. Each time the engine fires, the shaft impacts against the resistance which is the gearbox. You wouldn't want to pound away on a gear tooth with an air chisel but that is what is happening with the torque converter eliminator. With the dampener, those micro impacts slightly compress the springs which eliminates the impact from the gearbox.
Glad to see it going back together.
Hope to see her sail up east coast
I think this is going to be a much better setup as far as absorbing that last little bit of vibrations. The torque damper on the tranny is a great idea as well. Great to see the slow and steady progress.
Fantastic Doug! Great ingenuity there. Looking forward to seeing how it all performs!
Fingers crossed!
Well done, I believe this will hold when you get the dampener installed.
But as always, I have a suggestion or two :)
I suggest that you make a plate to cover the rubber on the upper mount, because I think the washers are too small, and will probably tear the rubber.
The bolts on the upper mount could also be replaced with studs that you locktite in, and use a jam nut to stop it from working lose.
Keep your inspirational videos coming, they're much appreciated.
i was thinking the same thing, these bolts will be loose soon, you're solution could avoid this.
I watched Doug and the seekers yesterday and I realized I've been watching for quite a few years man time flies.
Also I was going to suggest putting a piece of plate across that top mount where the rubber is it would help distribute any load across the entire piece rather than just under the washers
D and the S'ers was great. You have great skills/endurance.
Do the 2 top bolts thread into the transfer case? If so, you might need to do something to keep them from walking out. Like safety wire (between the 2 bolt heads) or a locking plate under both bolts with a couple of tabs to bend up against the bolt heads. Or something else.
I'm sure you'll keep an eye on it. Nobody wants an extra unplanned hole in the hull because a couple of bolts worked their way loose.
If you add bushings to your bolts you could properly tighten them while still leaving room for squish. Basically make them like shoulder bolts. You can fine tune the bushing length for whatever squish you want.
Very well done video, Doug 🎉
Looks like a nice fix. Only time will tell. Take care and have a wonderful day
Thanks, you too!
Doug tack a plate across the top bolts just to stop them rotating.😊
How about just wire tie them?
1 step closer to getting things straightened out!
Also, there are u-joints that are coulple with thick nylon cord re-inforced rubber "belts". The rubber between the u-joint peices are joined by this tough belt material. Just a thought. McMaster-Carr is your friend. TRW was too, but they got bought out. These are commonly used parts easily available.
Keep on seek'in!
I just you have to say I told you so about the rubber on the transfer case. I said that about I don't know 68 months ago when you were having the first trouble. But a sometimes we get hard-headed and don't want to change things into. We realize we have to, but I'm glad that that little fix worked out.
And I'm sure that the new new clutch plate. Torque converter will help save that transfer case.I'm sure it will.I'd never heard of that.Type of torque converter eliminator clutch plate.But it sounds pretty good. But who am I? I'm just an old Belge, rat.
Nothing is built perfect 1st, 2nd, or 10th time, this is a perfect lesson in don't get bogged down chasing perfection in the design stage, built it best you can for now and see what breaks, redesign/repaire, and repeat. Or you can just keep working on design number 136, two years in to project and almost ready to start ordering parts.
I would consider spring mounts to reduce torque twist. Each engine mounting plate (1 in each of 4 corners) has 4 high-compression steel springs. These springs are only about 2.5 inches tall and the coils are 1/4" (?) Spring steel coils. A 5/8" bolt goes through each spring. You can pre-load the springs by tightening the bolts (4) on each mount. That's how the US Navy did it on 480 VAC motors to drive huge cooling fans on the 100 Kwatt transmitters I worked on. Never saw one spring fail, EVER in my 10 years of service.
I'm looking forward to seeing if this works, more for my own satisfaction than anything else (my ego has a pet theory to vindicate!).
Thanks Doug!
It's a bit late now, but you could have put a pair of motocycle hydraulic steering dampers (the kind that prevents highspeed tank slappers) top of that transfer case instead of the top rubber mounts. You can adjust the degree of damping with the turn of a knob on the damper allowing you fine tune the degree of play in the system.
There's one thing I still can't understand, why you don't use CV shafts , Aqua drive , python drive use then. I have 2 of them on my boat . 405 hp twin engine steel Bruce Robert I built ,
There is no need and no room. 5.5"
A 3D printed replica or your steering wheel with the octopus, made into a clock …… would be great to see on. What did you make today segment of your show ….
I have an idea to make more room along your propeller drivetrain by eliminating one of the shafts. You could accomplish this by making an adaptor so that the universal joint bracket on the transfer case connects directly to the universal joint bracket on the engine transmission. In effect this would make a single universal joint connecting the transfer case to the transmission with no shaft between. This would make room for a shock absorbing shaft coupler on the output side of the transfer case or whatever component you might need to increase reliability.
Great job
Hi guys, I just had a thought about your harsh engagement of your transmission a just remembered that as an automatic you could also possibly soften the engagement of first gear when shifting into it through a possible softening of the accumulator tension and reducing the pressure when it first engages. Of course it depends on the transmission and I don’t recall which one you’re using. Just passing on a thought. As always great videos.
Great improvement, looks like it didn't take too long either since you were prepared for all of it but dampener disc from in boat stores. Liked seeing my trans mount brace has held up OK too... any expectation of Bart or Francis visiting again soon ? Enjoyed seeing them in your YETI "feature film debut", maybe they'll offer you some test gear for evaluation if they're smart ?
I don't know if it's been said or not yet, but the drive shaft allows for movement between the Hunderstead and the tranfer case. it's one of their features.
ADD 6 MORE PAGES TO THE OPERATIONS MANUEL. GOOD JOB.
That makes a difference you’d have parts in the T case taking up that strain for sure along with the u joints and splined shafts.
I would 100% safety wire those bolts.
Man i like how the boat helps fix itself. With the hoists n stuff. Eliminating that hard engagement seems like a solid idea. Hope she holds for ya.
Thanks for another great video.
Thanks for watching!
Recommend you fabricate a plate for that upper transfer case mount to prevent the bolt heads from destroying the rubber isolator.
Let’s see what happens first
I would sandwich the top washers with a single 5/16 or 3/8" plate that has two oversize holes. I foresee the edges of the washers eating away at the rubber.
Personally I think you’re going to be OK. Clearly taking some or all of the angles out will make the driveline smoother. Also adding the rubber mounts is going to make a huge difference. I can see that. All of that shock and load prior to these improvements was being absorbed into the hull, the driveline, the transfer case thereby creating more wear and tear on the gears in the X case. That’s why engines are mounted on rubber mounts in all cars and trucks. Oh, one more thing, today I bought some AmerLok 2 epoxy. I am going to use it on concrete floor just where my two vehicles sit when parked. The coating I used last year is fine for light traffic and wear but hot tires peel it off the concrete floor like wet paper. The PPG guy verified that the epoxy will work fine for my project. I’ll let you know how it works out. Wish me luck?
I think you’re on track with the alignment and dampening. When you do things unconventionally it takes time to work the bugs out. It’s why a twin disc cost so much.
Another great one 👍
I'm guessing the rubber mounts also help isolate the gear noise, and not send it thru the hull. Ahhh, quiet sleep is good!
Looks like the lower bolts bottomed out when you were tightening them, leading to the slop.
Fort Pierce... aka by locals as "Port Fierce". Recommend staying off the mainland out that way, as it's the less safe area between there and PSL.
Transvers mounted car engines sometimes have a shock absorber on the top of the engine for shake have u considered that as a possibility for rock
Doug are you putting Norfolk Virginia Harborfest in June of next year on your calendar? Would love to see Seaker in the parade of sail.
SEMI TRUCK engine mount would that work as back up fix ?
What if you use CV joint instead of universal joint. Maby the speed variation of the universal joint breaks the powerline?
This transfer case is just a neverending source of content, isn't it?
Provided you are the curious type.
Doug, whats your favorite beverage and when is the SV Seeker going to be near South America? Both questions are related!
grab a roll or two of tpu and you can print mounts for the transfer case
Have you thought of replacing the universal joints with driveshaft rubber donuts as fitted to some cars/vans? It might help cushion the transfer box. Just a thought!
Did you forget to film putting oil back into that transfer thing you worked on towards the end of the video or did you forget the oil again? We didn't see it, or maybe I wasn't paying attention for that exact moment?
No. I wanted to build tension in the plot. : )
Hi Doug. Love your videos. Did you notice that loose bolt @1:40?
That's more of a pin, than a bolt. But Thanks
Good video.
12:55 Try to get a couple (maybe 3 or 4) shock absorbers from a washing machine... These guys are nice and stout and should provide plenty of holding power, flexibility and in case the case comes loose it will not try to smash through the bottom of the seeker...
We shall see. : )
Have you ever felt the need for at least a bow thruster
No. I have not been at a dock in over a year. And I will never go into a marina.
Why not use a torque converter with lockup clutch like any modern automatic transmission, you have it open when you get into gear and close it once you are up to a certain speed. Allison or Twindisc should have something in your size.
It's not an option on the Allison 545
Those fish are Jack Crevalle’s look to be lil 15 pounders.
12:52 Are the black wires in potential contact with the transfer case? Maybe some split loom and zip ties are in order to prevent chafing. 🤷🏻♂️
Hi, I always been told that the yoke need to be in phase on the drive-line to not have any vibration. On the video you put the yoke on the transfert case 90 degree with the other side. May be at the speed it work it don't make any difference but don't cost anything to aling them either. May be next time ;)
They are not, unless you are looking at a test fit or the shafts on opposite sides of the transfer case an forgetting that there is a reduction so the two sides will rarely be in sync.
@@SVSeeker Okay ! you reduce in the transfert case also it's not like the original where you reduce may be from the original input shaft on the top and the front and rear output is the same. So I understand there is no difference.
What about a v-belt - reduction drivebox insted of the transfercase. Could it transfer enough thorque with etc 6 row pulleys . Just two flanged axles, some agricultural bearing units, belts and pulleys . Simple stuff .
The v belts always strech and slip enough, considering the hard hits on the driveline.
That's a possibility but I think there is actually more friction loss in belts than gears. It's been a long time since I looked into a belt drive.
at the beginning of the Vid, yer left foot is resting on a big ol chunk of shaft coming out of the huntersted... (sp?) how much of that shaft can be lopped off to gain you more room?
Maybe 1" and it can be moved back about 1".
A drive train dreamed up by a fool, not a sailor, that`s for certain!
Is bitterness and ignorance a quality of a true sailor?
@@SVSeeker I've seen quite a few running gears, particularly on vessels designed for high-latitude sailing. However, this fragile, wobbly contraption-a daisy chain of the most couplings, gears, bearings, and CV joints one could possibly scavenge from a marine recycling yard-is undoubtedly the most questionable design I've encountered. Happy sailing and make sure to say hi next time in the south pacific!
@@sentenced2sail So if you don't know anything about it then you should fear it is also a quality of a true sailor?
@@SVSeeker I just hope this running gear won`t break in a pass in the Tuamotus, putting another 50 tons of toxic garbage on the reef for the locals to deal with. Or that the jury rigged racor filter housing in the suction side of your fuel system won`t decide to crack while you are motoring near to a lee shore. All that said, you should be allright, as long as you stay within TowBoat US or CG hailing distance!
@@sentenced2sail You should just stop. The more you run your mouth the more you sound like an old woman and not a sailor at all.
Doug, we just installed our second spring-loaded drive plate between our Perkins engine and Borg Warner Velvet Drive transmission, our last one was a year old and the Chief reported the springs were already bent, so that thing had certainly been taking the shock loading when putting into gear! We have reduced pitch on our propeller so we're hoping that takes us just under critical loading... What are your thoughts on the DriveSaver type of flexible couplings? At $900 approx for our application they are very expensive.
Thanks. I'll take a look at DriveSaver. I found an IsoFlex unit ( same sort of thing ) that fits my 4.25", 4 - bolt pattern but they have nothing for my ft/pounds of torque. With 420 ft/lbs at the engine and a 7:1 reduction we are near 3000 ft pounds.
Seen the original and the Yeti version
Hey Doug, legitimate question; why did you decide against a lock up torque converter? that seems like it would have been a good solution to shock load and still not have the losses from a torque converter slipping all the time but I'm not privy to all the details.
It's not an option for the Allison 545.
@@SVSeeker Well thats a good reason lol.
So it did get me doing a bit of searching and not sure if you've explored this already, but the Allison 1545 does have a lockup option and seems to share most of the components with the 545. Seems like it has a different valve body and of course the lockup torque converter. Not sure what bellhousing you're running but I guess a #3 is the common one for those. Also noted that the M35A3 military trucks came with them and are 4x4. Should the current efforts fail, an option before the expensive twin disk is you might try calling a shop local to me that builds those trucks called Boyce Equipment in Ogden, UT. they might be able to give more details and source a trans with lockup and a beefy transfer case. Giver hell Doug!
Weld in some T1 1/4 plate to sheild hull from a hole?
I suggest making a nameplate with the laser that says TWIN DISC and stick it to the transfer case. Would that silence the twin disc crowd? 😆
What about the goesinta?
That would be snook season just opened it's great eating
👍👍
At 12:25the front u joints do not look to be in time . if not in time that will couse a virabation
How about a lock up converter? It has a clutch in it so you can have the best of both worlds?
That would be great but they don't have them for the Allison 545 transmission.
What about a doubler two transfers extra low range like in a rock crawler
Looking good Doug
0:37 Does it toot it's whistle on occasion? :o)
Is it just me or is that transfer case mounted 90 degrees from where it would have been? Could gravity be sending oil where oil wasn't meant to be or not sending oil where it needs it? I know some transfer cases have oil pumps. Is it still pumping oil correctly?
Yes, and we don't use the shaft in the top of the case.
You should hook up with Matt from Matt's off-road recovery and ask him if he can spare you an ultra-HD transfer case.
I wonder if the cost of a transfercase from SCS Gearbox at around 2-3k is too much, I'd rather do that than have numerous breakdowns to save a grand or two. I understand his approach and do the same myself to save dollars. Hopefully he will get there with the current setup.
Continual (diligent) improvement!
Yes. A some study and not like playing the Lottery at all. : )
Have you entertained the idea of using a hydraulic pump and motor for the drive?
Yes, but there are a lot of energy losses in the pump and again in the motor. And pump that big is $$$.
It's been so long that I don't remember, but if the transfer case is a 231, and it does look like it, it should have ATF in it, not 80/90
It's a NP205 and I'm running what Tod recommended now that the oil system is separate from the engine system.
@@SVSeeker that makes sense
The fish eating are likely Tarpon.
Heeyy Doug! How's your 3D printer doing? still reliable?
Water got to my filament so I have a dryer now, but I've been ignoring it lately as other things take precedence.
you have all the tools to cut the gears for a proper reduction box keep things simple 2 gears in an oil bath
Actually no I don't. Check out hobbing gears. And then the worm is also heat treated.
@@SVSeeker you can make straight cut gears with what you have building an oven to heat treat would be trivial considering what you have done so far you could go as far as to cut the gears with a angle grinder if you wanted to go super primitive
@@imchris5000 I appreciate your confidence
@@imchris5000 In a high stress application like this, choice of steel, machining tolerances, heat treatment, final assembly and lubrication have to be both precise and free of restriction. To make anything reliable, you would need acess to a well equiped machine shop, a good heat treament shop and a lot skills and knowledge. Making a custom gearbox would cost a lot more than buying one because of economies of scale. Yes anyone can cobble together a gear box with a bit of ingenuity but the reliability factor cannot be guaranteed. How much of a risk would he be prepared to accept on a boat?
@@nrml76 those factors are less of a problem when you over size
Second comment lol hope this fixes your issues
you just need a Guibo! seriously though they were in all of the BMWs in the 90s
Cool idea, but they will not take the torque.
@@SVSeeker a BMW one wont, but that is just one application of the technology. There are many types of variations and sizes.
@@mk12pickle 520 ft pounds of the engine x 7:1 reduction? No, it would die.
@@SVSeeker they make captured elastomeric guibos that do fit this application, I've seen them.
@@mk12pickle Maybe but I have not found it yet. IsoFlex ( isoflextech.com/ ) has one that fits my bolt pattern but it will not take the torque behind the transfer case. We might fit one in in front of the transfer case.
I am going to say something dumb!! If this doesn’t work how about making it work with a hydraulic pump/motor??
There are lots of losses of energy to heat at the pump and the back to the motor.
Hmmmm…nope. Thinkin you need 6 basic engine mounts , 4 on the bottom and 2 on top. The fully captured molded rubber type with the steel sleeve pass thru
Let me know where to send you more degreaser. I'll hook you up.
Whatever that was in the water, I'm glad I wasn't swimming with him 😬
I would guess that’s tarpon chasing bait.
you can make a song out of that 🤣
You know Doug.You had your bare foot on the drive shaft.
If the engine started you could be killed ….😂 jk
Nice work as always man
I’m just wondering when the “Seeking” & “Exploration” portion of this channel is going to begin. I know boats constantly need to looking after but seems that’s all this channel has become. Building a boat and constantly fixing it.
Patience Grasshopper. Patience.
When you “create” instead of buy there’s going to be issues, also after putting in use some of your creations you’re going to find improvements that are only found after time. Think of a new car or truck that has recalls. It happens.
@ZoneTelevision, it’s a prototype! Issues have to be ironed out.
Seeker is a 1 of 1 design, so there is no precedent for how she functions underway. Right now it's about "seeking" out issues and "exploring" ways to repair/improve functionality. Better to find out now, while access to parts is still relatively easy, than later on in foreign waters.
When you turn the TV off and help out lol😅
What? Washers? Someone is turning in to an engineer. Haha
Probably a snook