When Your Mormon Children Fall Away - Lance & Brandee Heppler Pt. 2 | Ep 1747
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
- Lance and Brandee Heppler began to question and ultimately leave the Mormon Church after their son Lake experienced mismanagement and mistreatment during his missionary training and service. This experience, along with their daughter Darby coming out as gay and being rejected by the Church, led them to start questioning Church teachings and practices. They also began to educate themselves about Church history and controversies through sources like the "Mormons & Masons" documentary, "Mormon Stories," and the CES Letter.
Further cracks in their faith emerged when Brandee became aware of a child abuse incident at their local stake center that had been covered up by Church leaders. Despite these concerns, the Hepplers continued to attend Church and pretend to believe for a time. However, they eventually reached a breaking point and decided to leave the Church altogether. They found that prioritizing their family and their own happiness outside of the Church was more important than following Church rules and teachings that were not serving them.
Episode Show Notes: www.mormonstories.org/podcast...
00:00:00 Intro & recap of Pt 1
00:05:00 Lake’s mission application and being sent home early from the MTC
00:21:30 Lake is able to return to his original mission.
00:31:30 Mormons & Masonry connection leads Brandee to start questioning silently
00:42:30 Lance spends less time from Church for things that made him happier
00:46:30 Darby comes out & told by honest Bishop: “There’s no place for you in the Church.”
00:55:00 Reality of LGBTQ in the Church, the importance of telling your child you love them
01:01:30 Discarding Church doctrine around daughter improved relationship, not opposite
01:13:35 LDS Suicidality problem in Mormonism
01:23:00 Bishop roulette on masturbation - Lake’s horrifying experience with UVU Bishop
01:31:30 Incident w/child predator mishandled while Brandee is Stake Primary President
01:42:30 Brandee & Lance finally start researching and talking about the Church post COVID
01:56:30 Had always been told the Gospel is what brought happiness and strong family, but it’s been the opposite
02:10:30 Hepplers feel that giving people hope is worth the “controversy” of coming on air
02:12:00 Biggest challenges, telling parent & others, what to have faith in
02:18:30 Church narrative that you can’t be joyful or REALLY happy outside of the Church
02:23:30 Gratitude & Closing Thoughts
Lance & Brandee Playlist: • Playlist
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Mormon Stories Podcast is the longest-running and most successful podcast in Mormonism - hosted by Dr. John Dehlin. At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We also occasionally interview scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals. Our overall mission is to: 1) Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology, 2) Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis, and 3) Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions.
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This couple has really helped me put words to what I’m feeling and going through. They’ve also help validate that I’m not the only person who’s picked family over church.
I’m so happy to hear this! Bravo to you and you’re absolutely not alone. I know Mormon Stories helped me in the same way. Not feeling alone in choosing walking away when it stopped working the way it was supposed to.♥️
This interview is virtually identical to my wife’s and my experience leaving the church after 50 years. I swear I was listening to my story when Lance spoke about his life. We are the same age and virtually living the same kind of life with our careers, mission, church experience, etc. Crazy! One of my favorite Mormon stories interview as I could totally relate.
I'm 29. My situation was essentially identical to Lake's. The anxiety. The digestive issues in the MTC. All of it. The MTC President sending me home even though I didn't want to come home. Only difference is I didn't really have the same support system as Blake when I got home. Props to both of you. You two are amazing parents. It's so validating to hear these stories because it totally helps me understand my own MTC experience. I was also in an Immersive Spanish Speaking MTC cohort, and I wouldn't wish that upon my worst enemy. And doesn't help you learn Spanish at all, because its so overwhelming.
My partner is ex-FLDS and though we've been through the ringer, the absolute best thing we've both done is go through extensive EMDR therapy and move forward with self love, self respect, and compassion now that we fully understanding our childhood programming, and that programming can be re-wired.
Oh James! Sending you a big hug!! I’m so sorry you had to go through that, and especially the lack of support. I’m so glad you have found good support in a partner who really understands. Plus you’re able to go thru “recovery” together. Best of luck moving forward, and thank you so much for sharing . ❤️
I'm glad the EMDR therapy worked for you, BUT that isn't the only kind of therapy to help people heal from trauma. I've been a therapist for 40 years & what's most important is having a therapist who is very empathetic & you know they care about you. There's no therapeutic method that works for everyone & it's a process.
I agree w/ Michele in part & am also a licensed therapist x 23 yrs. What’s most important when deciding which therapist to work with, regardless of the issue being addressed, is prioritizing developing a therapeutic relationship with the therapist creating emotional safety/trust & positive rapport during sessions. I work w/ clients regularly w/ childhood trauma & while EMDR is not the only modality when working w/ survivors, it is the therapeutic approach that is considered most beneficial, results are usually noticeable sooner, & it’s one of only a few evidence based approaches to trauma. I have had countless clients engage in short-term EMDR sessions w/ excellent results, & if someone is seeking therapy related to childhood trauma, finding a therapist with EMDR training &/or trained & certified in another trauma-informed care modality such as Janina Fisher’s program where the majority of clients have reported symptom reduction & improved outcomes overall.
If you don't mind a slight correction, our kids don't "fall away". They Rise Above. ❤ your work.
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Well said. I would add that they are also not losing their faith but finding it.
I think they’re trying to attract the type of audience who could really benefit from hearing this
I’m so glad my husband & son’s episode (Evan & Weston Smith), helped you realize the church isn’t true.
I’ve said it over and over again, but the BIGGEST lie the church tells you is that you won’t be happy if you leave & your family will fall apart. Nothing can be further from the truth. My marriage & relationship with my family is better now than it ever has been & we are all so happy living our best lives without the church.
Best of luck on your new path! I hope you continue to find joy & happiness in your new journey. :)
Cheryl, thank you so much for sharing this. Their story was one I actually encouraged lance to listen to BECAUSE They’re story was so well told and honestly, I knew Lance would really connect the dots the way Evan explained his journey. He and lLance seemed l similar in the way they reasoned and really looked at information. I’m so grateful they shared there story because it really was a lightbulb moment for lance ( and me, of course). I’m so happy you were the kind of wife and mom that Weston and Evan deserve too. All the best to you all and thank you to your family for what you done to help ours!! ♥️
Super happy for you, Lance and your family. I was really touched listening to your story. So much resonated. And I was moved hearing that the MS interview that Wes and I did was helpful in some way. I know you are helping so many people by sharing your stories.
Well…it might fall apart, but in my experience it’s because my very Mormon family treats us differently now that we’ve left and they don’t want to hear anything about what we’ve been through.
Such a great couple. Once again they prove that leaving the LDS Church is not THE END. I so many cases, it's a NEW BEGINNING. No parents should be told to cut off from a child.
Nobody in the church shuns their children for leaving. The Church is true everything else is irrelevant
Johnathan, I really REALLY wish that was true. Perhaps you misunderstand the word “shun”. I think we all know parents that have decided to not speak to nor have a relationship with their children because they believe they’re off the “covenant path” and that alienation will motivate them to “be obedient”. So yes, this does happen and it is harmful and hateful. ☹️irrelevant should never be your family! I believe the church teaches that.
Well then they are terrible parents and aren’t following the teachings of Christ. Maybe this is a Utah thing, I don’t know. 🤷♀️ I’ve never lived there. All I know is there are more happy families out there that have children who have left the church than you realize. I see it all around me especially from the parents perspective. Tired of this trope.
@@kristinrichmond8185 no need to get tired. You may be right that its only based on the stories or some families I’ve heard of but not t all. I’m neither from nor live in Utah, so my perspective is also not based on that. But I do hope there’s more l loving parents out there than ones that may alienate. 👍That’s always a good thing.
I love Mormon stories even more when you and Margi host together. The program just feels right!
Definitely!
I worked at a gay bar for years and I applaud this couple. I used to hear dozens of stories from men ostracized by their families - usually over religious reasons - who wanted to be part of their home life but knew they couldn't live up to the dogma. It just takes one man to break down crying in front of you to realize that none of this religious stuff is worth it.
That breaks my heart!! Love and acceptance is so much easier to give than that other stuff. I wish others could feel the weight that’s lifted off when we just do what our hearts really tell us to do. Thank you for sharing and for the sweet support. ♥️
Brandee & Lance, thank you for sharing your motivational story. Its awesome to see that you put unconditional love above everything in your family, making your home a safe place for yourselves and for your children. I smiled when both of you found out on the same day that you had come to the same conclusion and breathed a good sigh of relief :))! Very heart warming! And yes, Donna Showalter's Mormon Story was also one of the first Mormon Stories I watched and was deeply moved by her experience! Highly recommend it to anyone who hasn't watched it; it really helps when we share. Thank you also to you, John and Margi, for providing this platform and for interviewing in such an open, relaxed, and welcoming manner. All the very best to you all!
Thank you so much!!! I can’t tell you how many countless stories truly helped me and still do, everyday. Thank you for your sweet comment!! It is super appreciated. And I agree with you about John and Margi. I can only imagine how tough it would have been to have left WITHOUT others stories to give you insight and hope. They both were seriously the best and warmest people!! ❤️
Oh Lance, little do you know. This isn't just a national broadcast, it's international. You guys have been telling your story to the world. Hi from New Zealand! You are such a delightful and real couple. I have a gay daughter (25) who spent much of her teen/early twenties battling Anorexia and, as a result, didn't really discover her sexual orientation until she was 23. She's in an amazing happy relationship and, we have a tight family group (only three of us; my husband died 16 years ago, really suddenly,) which Sav (her gf) has just fitted seamlessly into. Wishing you and yours so much happiness.
Love from Australia too!
Oh, wow!! Tons of love to you Aussies!! I’m so sorry for your loss. However THAT IS a perfect place for the “when a door closes , God opens a window” phrase. So very happy to hear that your daughter and family are full of love and acceptance. And kudos to you mon! Thank you for your kind support and sharing. 💋
@@brandeeheppler3987 don't forget us New Zealanders! I loved your episodes.
This couple is goals. First, because I want to be able to retire that early! What!? A new dream unlocked. Also, how much clarity they have for whats important. Family over all. Unless it’s your safety and sanity. But no institution should ever come between family or be allowed to break them apart.
Not a church, not the country, not work, and not even marriage. Your loyalty is to yourself first and those whom you love and that love you Period.
My parents asked me what they did wrong. I am who they raised me to be. I told them they did everything right. It didn't sit right with them, I hope it does someday.
I’m so sorry. Disappointment is never something that motivates greatness. Even if they don’t see you’re greatness, it’s there! It’s there because, if nothing else, you have stood up to be honest with what you believe is true and won’t stay in something you don’t believe. That’s literally the definition of bravery, ( may be figuratively, I’m not sure) but you get my point. Bravo to you!!
That wasn't their initial reaction. They've always been very loving and non judgemental. This interaction was just one of a few religious conversations we've had over the years that have since stopped due to a much more heated one than this. There is no one I respect in this world more than my father.
They raised you to be a person who tells the truth, and lives honestly. They should be very proud.
Margi & John, the parenting ones are so meaningful for me as I raise my four sons & also say goodbye to them as adults. These are so helpful. Thank you.
I have so much hope with our youth! We are actually from the Vancouver, McLoughlin Ward, in the same era as you two, but moved several years ago. I was actually one of Darby's camp mom's her first year of girls camp! My oldest daughter falls in between the ages of your girls. We hadn't been active in several years because of a situation from that ward, and I was born in the covenant. We finally left a few years ago when our daughter had a situation in seminary her freshman year where the seminary teacher taught to the class that all gay people were going to hell. She stood up and informed the teacher how wrong she was, apparently very loudly, then walked out, and most of the kids left with her! She's not LGBTQ, but they love their lgbtq friends (as do we). The leaders of the church should be scared of these kids (now adults) they are the best and brightest, and she has always been one of my greatest teachers! Also, we formally resigned shortly after that! That was one of the best things we ever did! Love to you all!
I agree with you about the Youth!! Bravo to her and you! I love hearing that you are from our stake!! And obviously you’re daughter learned some good stuff from you too,The fact that you all left shows that you saw something wrong, and you also stood up and left. 👏👏👏👏not easy but following what you feel is right is a great example by your daughter and by you and your family!!
I do not disagree with you, but I want to add that a lot of progress came through the internet and through online communities such as blogs, Reddit, RUclips. The youth is not necessarily smarter, but they are way better informed, because the internet is at their fingertips.
Nevermo here: Wait, what? The church has an "approved" medication list for missionaries? That is absolutely insane.
Right?! I’m not sure what all the details were, but the amount of hoops that guy had to jump through was insanity itself. I literally said, Lake , you do not need to do this”. Because feeling like a Guinea pig is a terrible thing when you’re not answering to a church. I know how frustrating he seemed when he was trying to do all the “approved” steps. It just seems cruel. But the church is a large corporation and liability was really what they were concerned about. So crappy!!
Everything about missions is insane
To me it rather sounds like a good thing. 90% of the people involved in the mission organization are totally unqualified to make any decisions with respect to mental health issues. I am also not surprised that many missionaries are sent home if mental health issues occur, because mission presidents cannot deal with such problems, they are totally unqualified. So either you totally shift gears by placing mental health professionals at all relevant positions, or you need to fully specify a system, including medication whitelists, etc, so that an unqualified person can still handle it. The main problem is that these people overestimate their abilities due to them being called by God.
Thank you for sharing your story! As a lifelong member of the LDS Church (and Mom to a wonderful gay son) I so appreciate these stories of good parents who choose to support and love their gay children and want them to have all the good things in life. It seems to open the doors to us to find out what else the Church is wrong about.It was such a relief to me to find out it wasn't true anyway :) Thank you MS!
Bravo to you!! Loving and supporting your son is the example that we looked to! Thank you so much for your kind comment. It helps us to not feel alone in this!! ❤️
I talk with lake almost weekly on the river
He’s a great guy …. Always enjoy talking with him
Miss Kellty to…..you have wonderful hardworking children
My parents are a lot like this couple and I couldn’t be more grateful
This story breaks my heart the pain they experienced, but what beautiful people!
Aww, seriously, that is so nice! Thank you!! 🌈
"Stop judging your kids ". Right on.
I guess me laughing loud at certain things explains why most members of the church were very distant towards me as a member 😆 ahhhhh man I can't wait to remove my records
Lance and all of your male guests exemplify the Divine Masculine
Thank you
I really appreciate your guesses for being so open. Thank you for being so vulnerable and sharing your stories and experiences.
It’s powerful how quickly they came to the conclusion that their daughter is not “misguided” or wrong, but accepted her and picked her over the church. Many parents conclude their child is misguided and in this way they are picking the church over their own child. 1:04:25
I’m not Mormon, nor have any connection to the religion, but I love the podcast and hearing everyone’s stories
Welcome to the club. Actually, half of the audience have never been Mormon, thus we are referred to as NeverMo's.
Thank you for sharing your story❤ I currently am in a mixed faith marriage- and I was so scared to tell my husband that I didn't believe in the church anymore, I thought he was going to leave me.
I relate so much to Brandee's personal story. I struggle with depression and some weeks it was so difficult going to church, because I wanted so much to be happy like everyone else, and just like Brandee pointed out, I cannot control, no matter how hard I tried, to be happy. I got so angry and upset by the false teaching "Being happy is a choice." Believe me! I know better than anyone else, if I could "choose" to be happy I would. People like us that struggle with mental illness DO NOT CHOOSE how it affects us.
I also never fit in with the "Molly Mormon" prototype and was never able (as an adult) to make any close friendships with any of the women in my wards.
Thank you both for letting us hear your story, it has brought me so much light and hope. 😊 Keep shining your light Brandee- I hope to find a friend like you some day.
It ticks me off to the extreme that a person Lance has valued in his life for years expected him to just slink off and be quiet. No "Are you okay?". No "How are you and Brandee?" Just wants Lance to protect the very organization that abused his kids and lied and lied and lied to them. That's just sick and insulting.
This is such an important and beautiful episode. The love, compassion, and understanding these parents show for their children is so powerful and makes me think about the person I want to become
The worlds most wonderful parents 🥺
Yikes.I’m not sure we could ever live up to that one!!! (We can pretend) haha. We have such amazing kids… and honestly when no one is judging and just loves and enjoys each other,it is easy for all of us to look good. 😘😘😘thank you for seeing the good in us though!! It’s pretty wonderful. 🌈
Love this episode! Thank you guys for sharing your story.
John! I'm so concerned about your cough. Are you ok?
Great interview with great people on a great podcast!
Thank you for your courage! ❤
Thank you so much for listening and support! It truly is appreciated!
If I am permitted to generalise, glad some one said "masturbation is normal."
My other son wrote home from his mission and said that he might get sent home because of masturbation. He didn't tell me right out, but I read between the lines and told him that this was not a big deal and not to worry about it. He had a good President that didn't send him home or tell him he was an addict.
Great episode! These are wonderful parents ❤
You’re so nice. We definitely have our faults!! But we so appreciate the kindness and support!!♥️Thank you so much for that amazing compliment!!!
What a fantastic story
The part about the cover-up of molestation of the primary child in the restroom was SO disturbing!! How are the bishop and other leaders in the ward not mandatory reporters? If they are not, this law really needs to be changed! There needs to be consequences for them NOT reporting incidents like this! It's truly maddening to me! (Btw, I am also in WA state.)
1:12:21 Bella had a suitcase packed when she came out to us. To this day it kills me to know that.
Right?! I felt the same. That Darby didn’t know how we would react breaks my heart !!The fact that she was ever in doubt that we would 100% always love and accept her, truly made me re-evaluate my parenting! So glad they gave us the opportunity to show them what parental love was made of!! ❤️
1:29:17 recalls warnings of "phobia creation" I've heard about when learning about cults. Very sad to create phobias for people around their own bodies and natural human reproductive impulses.
Holding the person in the light that has a super bad cough which sounds chronic. Hopefully the person is using an inhaler to help break things up in the lung. I’ve been hearing the cough lately with the last few videos.
Another great story! Thank you.
Yes, me too 😢. I hope he's ok.
Thinking the same thing. Hoping you are ok John.
John, please let us know that you are ok! Numerous people have noticed that persistent cough in the last several podcasts, and are concerned for your health! It seems to be getting worse. I hope you have been to a doctor. I realize this is a personal health matter; however, if you could please put our minds at ease and address this in a future podcast, that would be great. Thanks!
I truly like this couple, well both couples. This is a inspiring story that I do know will help so many other families.
If a man, neighbor, etc., asked a young man or woman the same questions about sexuality what would you do?
Why excuse it because it's a spiritual leader? Geez
Great folks. I totally identify with their story in many ways.
Thank you so much! I am so glad it did!! It’s truly what we hoped for. ♥️
Fantastic episode ❤
So putting plastic forks in jackets is a “big deal” but changing your child’s medication without consulting the parents isn’t… wow. This was a great episode, thanks Mormon Stories
I always see smart and intelligent folks like this and think - and I say this respectfully - but how do such smart adults fall into this scam. Great episode.
born into it usually. further, even just looking at society pre and post internet, the culture has changed a lot. not to mention a new awareness on mental health since the start of the new century, generational shift's, and just an overall greater availability of a variety of different information. further, the number of people who attend post secondary education past the boomer generation skyrocketed. suffice it to say...it's easy in some way's to keep to tradition, until something burst's your bubble, and the American way of life was literally historically designed around that bubble not even encountering a stiff breeze.
@@ethanstump One cannot help but look at the distribution of beliefs throughout the world and notice that people's beliefs correlate almost perfectly with their culture and upbringing. Mormons beget more Mormons. Catholics beget more Catholics. Muslims more Muslims, etc. This is more telling about the nature of man with regards to religion than anything else.
@@gunkulator1 I hesitate to ever observe the nature of anything as fixed, or at least i should. further, what does that say about the growing number of not only unaffiliated, but clear atheist's around the world? i guess an intense dissatisfaction with part's of their upbringing, but also an intense love of other factor's of our culture that is becoming more prominent, such as sci-fi, philosophy, science and environmentalism.
We asked ourself the same question. Yes, born into it. Yes, the access to much information is someone new. But I think for us, 1. The fear that is really pushed on you that you will lose everything( relationships being the biggest) 2. That you are going again God 3. That the information from the church is the only true and unbiased information. Everything from outside sources is untrue or “anti” and justo trying to get you to leave
@@brandeeheppler3987 Thnaks Brandee. So can I ask - and any once else who’s left - do you think Joseph smith: was a total fraud and would be laughing in his grave at the ongoing fraud. Or was maybe mentally ill and thought he saw these plates and ghosts. Or it happened in some form in truth.
As a never mo, but heard hundreds of hours of history. My believe is he was a total fraudster and nothing was remotely real. All a scam from day one. JMO.
These people are great
Thank you so much!! What a wonderful compliment!!🙏🙏♥️
MTC mixed up my brother’s meds as well and he started seeing hallucinations. He also got sent home after a few weeks.
Ugh!! That’s super infuriating to hear!! I’m so sorry. Honestly, it’s like they have some weak “crack team” psychiatrist on staff there. 🙄.
To me it sounds like these people probably don't have a license. Else they wouldn't be changing medications unless absolutely necessary. Without being an expert, I would 99% guess the young men's or women's problem are not due to medication issues, but due to adjusting to a completely new environment, which the MTC and the mission are.
I'm very glad Darby did not experience depression, anxiety, and suicidality (that we know of) as a result of being a gay latter day saint. And also, continually referring to her as "strong" for that implies that queer people who did experience those things, or whom we lost to suicide, are "weak" which is just not true. Just as Brandee wasn't "weak" for experiencing bipolar disorder, those symptoms were a combination of genetics, environment, experiences, etc. I know this isn't what they were meaning to say but maybe just be more careful about those implications in the future.
Great interview, I always love the ones Margi co-hosts :-) I especially loved what Lance was saying about learning to not judge our children, and how Brandee said that strategy can improve all our relationships even outside of family!
Such a good point!! You’re so right!! And actually Darby does suffer with anxiety. I don’t believe she has come out of it without issues. Plus having a mom with mental health issues, her genetics play a huge roll. Lance and I are still learning and also reprogramming our language. I so appreciate your comment! Lance had honestly come such a long way with understanding mental health. This is noted absolutely something we both will take to heart! Thank you to both you and Mae for-bringing to our
I love these people, such a loving couple.
Love- Good marriage isn’t merit based. As Brad Wilcox might say- ‘not playing’ marriage. No judgment. No secrets. No shame.
Enjoyed your story. Living in the moment is great and you enjoy this very short life more, you will all be together when you cross over. God isn't human, God, creator whatever term you like is pure Love❤
Not that I ended up having to handle this issue with either of my sons, I used to tell people I'd rather have them tell me they're gay than that they're a Republican. Because sexual orientation isn't a choice, while being a Republican is an ignorant, bad choice. (they're both liberal) 😄
Do you ever think any of these sexual abusers that seem to be prevalent in Catholicism and Mormonism in particular has to do with the repression, shame, judgement, and reprimanding by church elders and teachings to their members of natural human tendencies that have existed since the creation of humans? If it wasn’t talked about or reprimanded, I wonder how many instances or abusers would actually grow to become one?
Love these two. Just that.
Just listened to the Podcast..............what great parents! The Bishop told Lake that he's a "sex addict".........how incredibly ignorant!.....It just amazes me the damage that is done to people in this cult!
I'm only at the beginning of this video but I'm livid for Lake. How dare they change his medication. That's completely f*cking unacceptable. So they changed it and then went "oops, nvm, its your fault and you deal with it." I'm sorry, I don't like organized religion but it is full on evil to do these things to people without proper consent.
Can’t seem to find that “Masons & Mormons” documentary? Anyone know what they are talking about and where I can find it?
Brave together ..the gospel can be found outside the Mormon faith… without the Book of Mormon
I couldn’t find the 1st episode, can you give me the timeline? I would love to hear their whole story.
Blessings to you All❤
Thank you
ruclips.net/video/qqeFn2txeqQ/видео.html
1:25:48 Wait, not wearing you're tie is an issue? I skipped wearing mine all the time! 😆 I also skipped taking the sacrament just because I didn't feel like it. Never realized people where probably judging me for it! 😅
In the game of “Bishop Roulette” you must of landed on a better one than Lake. He got a power hungry , judgey, shouldn’t be bishop of a student ward, probably bucking for Stake Pres. one.
You are lucky. Time to hit Vegas. 👍
What was the documentary that brandee watched?
"Inside the Freemasons"
Can someone explain to me why wearing a tie is important to Mormon men? Or why it was a big deal when you don’t wear one at church?
They say it’s about respect. 🙄
Because like my brother in law and other cults, they value appearance far more than substance.
Because they left the church, doesn't necessarily mean they left God or Jesus behind. They can still pray to God. It doesn't take a church to be a good christian. God is not just in a church or church organization.
It does seem to be a trend that when people are are forced to examine their place in religion, especially a high demand one such as the LDS church, that the concept of a deity itself is found to be as evident or necessary as the unfounded claims of the religion itself. This has been my case as well. The same “tools” used to deconstruct the church work just as well to deconstruct any other religion and the concept of a god as well. I’m fine with people believing what they wish, but for me, I have been given no good reason to believe as such.
@@OuttaMyMind911 The problem is that in the LDS church, god and the church are closely intertwined and inseparable, and so is their concept of the holy ghost. For many post Mormons, the only way is to pour out the baby with the bath water to actually get rid of the bath water.
@@charlesmendeley9823 Well, plenty of other religions keep their god/church/spirit tightly controlled as well, otherwise, why be a different religion in the first place? To keep the analogy going with deconstruction, many simply find there was NO baby in the bath water in the first place.
Agree with all that’s been stated. I think, Mary, you are right. I’m still trying to find a place for my faith and gratitude. I do still pray to God… I think my internal image of whom that is and what they may be is fluid AND I’m still open to learning and researching. It’s hard when you’ve been all in. I’m not looking for a new building or organization. Just a new way of seeing Deity. I think that’s a journey a lot of ex-Mo. go from here. 🫶🏼
I am fascinated by the phenomenon of people discovering that large church organizations are NOT the pathway to God. Protecting the organization and the power holders is more important than protecting the flock. I was raised Catholic, and I think what Catholics went through is similar to what Mormons are going through now. The ugly truth is becoming glaringly visible. I don't attend church now, but I definitely have a relationship with Christ. I believe former church members (and those who still attend) are moving toward a personal, non-institutional relationship with God.
Or the realization that all aspects of religion, including the concept of God and Jesus, are inexorably human inventions too.
Lance, why do you wear a watch on each wrist? Just curious. Kudos to you two, you sound like great parents.
He said he was a big bike racer- so I bet they have different purposes that he uses for that
One might be a fit bit?
One is a Garmin watch. One is a “Whoop” strap. It measure heart rate variability etc.
@@lheppler I noticed your 2 watches also … bc my husband does the same. Big time cyclist and already had Garmin for tracking bike rides etc. Other tracks heart rate etc. Too funny.
Thanks for this wonderful insightful interview. Never-Mo but live in Utah now so curious about all these Mormons (we will never convert tho; only Jesus for us). Wishing you and your family all the best; you are beautiful people ❤.
I like road cycling, what is lance’s podcast on cycling?
It’s Dialed Podcast! You can find it on every major streaming platform
Kudos to the Heppler's
I kind of wish Brandee would quit interrupting Lance.
I’m sorry about that! I know I am a lot and try to be aware of it. I apologize for monopolizing. 🙄 I don’t know why I can’t just keep quiet.
What is Lance's podcast about cycling?
Dialed Cycling
Total sidenote, but I am a clinical herbalist, so I have to say some thing… Saint johns wort is for seasonal or situational depression, not for clinical depression, ADHD, or anxiety or any other mental health issues. Lol, just had to say my peace.
That the bishop said there was no job for your daughter…?This, bud, the Mormon Church, ❤is the wrong damn church. Time for your family to start the next
journey.
Actually he said there was, “no place” for her in the Church. I totally don’t blame him. He’s honestly the sweetest guy, but wanted to be honest with her. AND that is, unfortunately, the doctrine and policy’s from the top down. So yeah, it was more proof to me that it’s not really where we should be. 🫶🏼🫶🏼🫶🏼So, I agree with you, Ellen!
The change in acceptance of LGBT members changed from what Pres. Monson had in 2008 as long as you lived the Law of Chasity you were welcomed and able to serve in the Church. Now under Pres. Nelson you are no welcome and can be excommunicated. That’s why I left.
Someone needs some chicken soup and throat lozenges.
I admire them BUT how come people all the sudden decide the church's teachings are crazy when they find out their kids are gay? The contradictions are everywhere but they choose to ignore them until something impacts them. Same story with Heather and Kelly Laing. If their own family hadn't been impacted they would likely still be toeing the line.
Cognitive dissonance
This is the only way we will take notice and, by our own personal experience, REALLY SEE, LEARN, UNDERSTAND, & K.N.O.W. ("A severe mercy," is c.s.lewis's way of putting it. upon whom mormons feel completely entitled to draw & thereby "draw into" the theosophy. But why not,? Consider the FOUNDATIONAL EXEMPLAR)
Brainwashing all their lives. Been there so I understand 120%
It's grooming and conditioning. They're conditioned from the start to never question bc if they do even slightly, they're letting Satan in the door. They get trained to stop their own thoughts. Even when they get those twinge thoughts, it gets shoved away bc it might be Satan and if they think about it "it's their fault for letting their faith falter". But, and it's a big but, when someone starts threatening their children's/loved one's spiritual or physical welfare, it can cause a huge breach and let reality flood in like a tsunami. They'll let themselves be messed with and live with the "mystery" for the social and community benefits... but damned if anyone is going to hurt their kids, or their sibs, or whoever it is that was the breaking point. That's where it cracks and no more pretending.
It's because many people do not have full empathy until they have some real intersectionality in their close friendships and family.
It's the same reason people don't see racism until they have close friends and family of color.
We cannot understand the trans experience until we talk to, work with and hear trans people. It all boils down to empathy, hearing people and believing their stories.
The church teaches people not to believe anyone except the top tier leaders.
I am just at 40 minutes. I have to watch this is segments.
I truly understand these people. Though these people are experiencing this with their Mormon beliefs, this is not exclusive to Mormon beliefs.
Every religion on this planet has their blunders, it's just that those blunders will be tailored to their beliefs.
There are 42k variants of "christianity" on this earth, and it's arrogant to say one is better over the other.
The "rule" of not looking outside the faith for answers is the same with all denominations.
Example:
Apauling Paul AKA: Apostle Paul
Appointed himself as the 12th Apostle without ever even meeting the requirements for apostleship.
Holy $**t that stirs up some arguments 😂😂😂...But It's True !!
I am so sorry people have to go through these experiences, and it just makes my heart sad to see.😔
Yes, Sheldon, I do agree with you. Funny, I just had the “Paul” discussion the other night with a Christian friend whom asked me if I was still Christian. I think the LDS, as with a few other HIGH DEMAND religions are a bit more zealous about not looking outside. Also, smearing historically correct info. As “false” or “anti”. And then there’s the “you’re going to be miserable and fail at everything”. But yes, no faith wants to lose members. Especially tithe payers. 👍
My two oldest children went to (and graduated from) Washington State University as well! Go Cougs!
Yay! Go Cougs !!
Unbelievable, mess with someone’s meds wow, damn. I would have blew, got on the first plane and extracted him.
My question is has this couple lost their faith in the LDS Church or God? Because those are 2 very different things.
On a faith journey still. I think there is definitely a higher power out there. What that is and where my faith goes is still a work in progress.
My son was told that he was a sex addict for this too and had to go to the church's 12 step program.
I loved this couple. I feel great sadness for them because in some ways they are still under the influence of the LDS church because they disregarded the Holy Bible and plan of salvation through Jesus. Sandra Tanner expressed so well how the LDS church denigrated the Bible & the sources are based on the Hebrew and Greek texts. Exiting mormons should consider reading the New Testament to know that God Almighty is the one true God who sent His son because He loves us and offers salvation through His mercy and grace. I am sad that they don’t know they can have God’s incredible faith, hope, & love.
I have read the New Testament several times. I’m still working out where my faith is. But I can’t look at things in nature and believe there’s NOT a higher power. I’m an artist and so many things in this world seem “inspired”. I can’t deny a God existing. How that works into our day to day, is still something I’m studying. So, I wouldn’t say we aren’t open to l truth. Just what that is for us, may take a while.
A correction on the discussion about the masonic origins of the temple ceremony (about 34:00): while Freemasons nowadays do not claim that the their ritual dates back to Solomon's temple, they did that in Joseph's time. This is because they had an esoteric, mythical worldview at the time. So picking up the ceremony and adapting it to the Mormon version could also be explained as a pius fraud, if Joseph himself believed in its ancient origin.
Talking about how great Darby was because she didn't display suicidal ideations was just a bit too far for me... How very ableist.
I doubt that was the intention.
But, I will say that those struggling with mental health, suicidal ideation, etc. are the strongest people around. Most people don’t understand how difficult it can be to get through depression. Holding on and through each second, minute, hour, etc. is the hardest thing possible. Surviving the day is a huge victory. And it’s the luck of the draw whether it happens to you and so many things that are out of the person’s control.
It is a WONDERFUL thing when a person is put in a horrible situation and that doesn’t happen though.
I think many people use the wrong words sometimes and my hunch is this was the case here.
Francine is right. Lance doesn’t come from a place of mental health issues but has been so understanding, compassionate and willing to learn. It’s been a long journey for him and that is absolute not what he meant. I think he was grateful we didn’t lose our daughter like so many parents in the church have because they have suffered I. Silence and we parents missed the opportunity to help. That’s all. To feel your child … or frankly all those LGBTQ community come to that point is heartbreaking and we just felt we missed a lot but are grateful the outcome wasn’t tragic when we weren’t looking or didn’t have enough knowledge to prevent that terrible outcome.
Don’t want to be rude but could you please try to address the coughing noise. It is tough to listen to the coughing especially while on headphones. I know I am more sensitive due to having misophonia but when this has come up in other videos so many other people also seem to be very sensitive to noises like clearing a throat, noises involved with drinking, etc. I almost had to stop listening numerous times because it is like hearing nails on the chalkboard to me. Maybe postproduction could solve it, shut off the microphone during the coughing, etc.
I didn't even notice any coughing, you must be sensitive.
@@micahtee6541 coughing was very evident so was not related to sensitive hearing. The fact that it bothers me so much makes me sensitive.
Agreed, the coughing in the background is super obnoxious. Even though the episode was great!
One thing you and your community can to add to this discussion is to change the language to the frame of this experience. Rather than "When Your Morman Children Fall Away," why not say, "When Your Morman Children Leave the Church," of better yet, "When Your Morman Children Escape?"
Hi Brother Dehlin. My daughter was diagnosed with OCD and scrupulosity on her mission. She has transferred home to a service mission and, with the help of the Lord, her amazing Mission President and our Stake President, we got her into a treatment program that has been a huge blessing for her and our whole family. Once her illness was treated, and she did ERP Therapy, she began to be able to feel closeness to the Lord again and has experienced healing. It has been amazing to watch her flourish. Participating in her therapy and healing has been an experience that has brought a new closeness to our whole family. I wanted to share perspectives of those who also experience these trials but don't choose to leave their relationship with the Lord. It has been really hard, but we wouldn't change a thing.
Please dig deep. Remember your relationship with Him. Your comeback story would be the greatest Mormon story ever. Cheers to you and your lovely wife!
“Leave their relationship with the Lord” This phrase proves that LDS is a cult.
You should all fall away from that church😉
Knowing how patriarchal the society is, why didn't the father talk to them. Didn't you already know that the mom would be marginalized? Why was the mother the one to talk to them? I get it, it seems like Mom is the stronger personality. But, dad that was your time to step up!
Dad already had. They didn’t listen to him either.
This isn't on pocket cast for me to listen to...
I have never heard of a church which intervenes with medications! This is Hyper Control..... 😮
Find a new church home‼️ Where you’re all welcome‼️
The Mormon Church is not a cult???
What's with all the persistent coughing?
It's really weird to me when people say that Joseph Smith had a rock in his hat. But what's taught in other religions that he was actually hallucinating due to psychicdelics or licking a frog or something?
I never understood the LDS religion. The excommunicated me. Because my ex-husband cheated on me. And I wasn't willing to work out. The fact that he couldn't stay faithful. And I was being a disobedient wife by not allowing for healing and forgiveness..
I believe the claim about the Temple ceremony being handed down from Solomons temple.
Yep, I did too, until I started digging into where the Mason’s actually state they got the signs and tokens from. Not from Solomon.
The problem is that there is clear evidence the third degree was added later. What does date back before the 18th century to Scottish lodges are generic biblical plays, but they are unrelated to any contemporary ritual, Masonic or LDS. For the current ritual, things do not date back past the 18th century. They are enlightenment inventions, including the myth that they would date back to Solomon's temple.
Thanks to my parents for not going on a paid talk show and telling all about my personal life using my name. :)
John’s cough is annoying 27:52
I’m sure he would stop it he could. It’s highly likely he can’t control whatever health condition that’s causing him to cough.
I wonder if he spends good deal of time actually trying to suppress it and only coughs when he can’t hold it back anymore. I’m hopeful we’ll all wish him well on an issue that likely bothers him much more than it may bother us.
Too bad Lance doesn’t have a voice. Brandee needs to give it a rest and let her husband speak without interrupting him.