Slower Charging Is More Important Than Fast Charging. Here's Why.
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- Опубликовано: 4 май 2023
- Max rants about the need for more level 2, AC infrastructure in the US. DC Fast Charging is great but day-to-day, there's an urgent need for these slower but essential stalls in every parking lot you can imagine!
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This is so important. Level 2 availability is the way to never think about charging.
The average vacation travel by road is 314 miles. Something very under appreciated its hotel charging which allows one with a range of 350 or more miles to charge to 100 percent before they leave and arrive at their hotel and then slow charge back to 100 percent to then get home without even having to think about fueling/charging their vehicle on the trip. More videos need to be done showing home to hotel vacation travel to show people how they can go without even having to plan charging within their trip.
Your content has become really timely and valuable-nice job, Max!
Max, definitely would like to see more Level 2 chargers in my area. Where I live in Maryland we have only a few Level 2 chargers available to the public, in the entire county. And we’re talking around 7kW. This is why I have a hardwired 48A charger and a NEMA 14-50 in my garage.
I agree with you 100%. Great video. They keep evolving. Better and better. Thank you!!
Max here is something I've been wondering. Why are we not seeing any "bring your own cable" solutions in the US? Every Chargepoint station that I have seen down is due to a broken latch or damaged connector but yet I see nothing in their lineup with a BYOC. Imagine if all L2 stations had the ability to use a customer's own standardized cable instead of having an attached cable get used and abused by vandals. Some people would grumble but a lot of us would just carry our own cables.
C'mon now Robert, we aren't Europeans. We are Americans and thus, the company is obligated to cater to us.
Heck, it should be like the full-service gas stations when I was a child....the attendant should come out and take care of hooking up the car. Our having to get out of the car and do it ourselves, possibly in inclement weather,... that's barbaric!
How do you prevent people from stealing it?
Grocery stores, shopping centers, multiplex movie theaters, gyms, hotels/motels, work/school, apartment complexes, municipal parking lots, regional parks, state/national parks.
On our trip to Zion NP last summer, they had RV hook ups at each site in the park. We plugged in with the VW ID.4 PRO’s Level 2 charge cable, and voila!
Also, on the same trip, at an RV facility just outside of Grand Canyon North Rim, the owner had just upgraded all his RV hookups and again, ample power for overnight Level 2 charging. EZ PZ!
We could not have visited those places without those Level 2 opportunities (plus a DC ChargePoint in Kanab UT at their rec center!).
Great content and important info, Max!
Completely agree. I charge at a reliable level 2 “EVSE” unit which I find to be consistently reliable near me and at work. My apartment doesn’t have them onsite. Level 2 is key!!!
The more we can charge while parked doing whatever the more we move to everyone feeling comfortable owning an EV, good job Max and one more thing slower charging is better for battery health.
Thank you for the truth.
Great looking car the grey still looks mint I remember you having the upgrades as if it was yesterday and it was 12 Months ago wow times flown by. Nice day out with the alpacas walking and the birds of pray. 👍
The Whole Foods by me uses Clipper Creek charger. Super easy plug and charge and there less expensive. Free to the driver
How about requesting locked NEMA 14-50 commercial outlets/receptacles to be installed instead, for registered EV users? Requiring the use of a "pre-approved portable" EVSE (with or without meterIng capabilities) ( Possibly as part of a customer loyalty program?) KISS....
And we should offer a business a reason why they should spend the money??? Since upgrading electrical service lines can get very expensive, which is often required.... Even when just doing onboard AC charging....
Tesla said that they intend to expand focus beyond Superchargers. The importance of L2 charging any place people go in large numbers. Shopping centers, grocery stores, movie theaters, airports, ride share locations, work locations, any place where lots of people tend to go and park. If there are L2 chargers all over there would be much less demand for the DCFC. L2 chargers all over the place is more important than even DCFC. Completely agree L2 chargers all over the place would be a game changer. They don't need to be free, just available at a reasonable cost. More focus on this topic is huge! Thanks.
ran into one at a beach when I was down in Florida with my Tesla rental, was awesome. got like 30% charge back after a few hours there.
I charge every day on L2 at work at 3.2 kW or 6.2 kW and it is great and I only charge max 4 hrs. I consider L1 trickle charging.
Those glasses, that bokeh, Out of Spec style and production quality trending up 😆
Why do we half to rely on the charger having a cable/plug that can be damaged, versus the user supplying their own cable and plugging it into a receptacle unit instead? It might help reduce the instances of going to an LVL 2 charger and finding a broken cable/plug.
It would really help if more chargers were installed at each location rather than putting just 1 or 2 chargers at lots of locations. These feel like "compliance" chargers. Follow the Tesla model and put in a least 8 stalls at each charging site. That way if 1 is broken and another in use, there are still chargers available. And it is much cheaper to install 8 chargers at 1 location than it is to install 2 chargers are 4 different locations.
ChargePoint chargers are generally repaired by a ChargePoint technician. The owner of the system buys a tiered service plan from them based on how fast you want parts, service, and repair. You also pay a subscription for the software allowing analytics and payment processing.
More the merrier as far as number of ports is concerned but the cost to install is steeper than you think.
Especially overnight where people sleep. Houses, apartments, hotels. Easier, cheaper, and better for the grid.
💯 % Agreed 👍
How soon til most hotel parking spots have L2 charging? First hotels to include L2 to most parking spots will clean up! Same for shopping malls and restaurants. Doesn’t have to be free…
Another thing: why isn’t EV charging hardware designed so that you can just drive into a parking spot and charging just happens. Either wireless or some automatic docking. You configure the car to handle billing transaction.. Imagine you drive into a parking spot with charging included and the car pops up a dialog box on the screen asking to confirm you want to charge. Click ‘yes’ and get out and walk away.
Damaged by ultraviolet light? Huh? I'll go with the spray paint theory...
It is up to the city to get it fixed not chargepoint. Tesla units are down too.
Totally agree.
I think that this is an important topic, but the framing is from a ‘we deserve more’ mentality which I don’t think is helping. The charging problem should be framed more as a commercial opportunity. The only reason gasoline cars work at all is because of the vast and highly inefficient gas station infrastructure. People on the ‘gas is better’ train don’t consider how impractical and expensive it is to truck gasoline to all these stations. The cost of installing and maintaining chargers is orders of magnitude less expensive than a gas station, so why can’t we frame it in that light? Talk about how installing charging infrastructure now is like getting into the gas station business on the ground floor 100 years ago - an immense opportunity.
we just lost a local lvl 2. only a 2 port chargepoint, and free. but sad.
Another type of place that really should have level 2 charging, but typically doesn't is commuter park and ride lots.
I trickle charge daily and have not had to recharge at EA in a month.
TFTC and yeah, more level 2 please and thank you lol
Would Level 2 chargers at sports facilities, baseball/soccer/football/cricket/basketball/tennis/pickleball/etc., not be ideal? People - especially visiting teams - arrive and spend hours there. Who wouldn't want to charge over the couple of hours that you're in using the facilities?
As someone who owns a car that can only use the J1772 connection, thank you for addressing this topic.
I suggest to Electrify America and EVGo to please put at least one J1772 unit for every 3 CCS units in their locations.
I get extremely frustrated by Tesla drivers that don't want to pay for CCS or the Supercharger up the road and instead hog the J1772 Volta units because they are free. The Tesla owners have the above stated options whereas drivers like me do not.
That is some serious fast Glasses 🙃
50 to 80 amps for a level 2 charger? Wow, that's a lot of juice! Do people even have residential panels that could handle that? Especially if they have electric water heaters and other appliances???
From what I read, only Tesla seems to have reliable public charging. For the others, it seems as there must be a profit in installing charging facilities, but not in maintaining them. Volkswagen was forced to build Electrify America stations, but hasn’t adequately maintained them. It’s a real problem. No one but Tesla seems invested in public charging.
Out of all the public level 2 chargers, ChargePoint has been the most reliable in the Eastern MA area. Enel-X has been the worst.
Level 2 is not really trickle charging. It is normal charging. More level 2 would greatly reduce EV charging only parking places.
Battery electric vehicles "work" for people who can use Level 2 charging "where and while they sleep." But for the millions of people in this country who WILL NOT be able to do that, I think it's virtually CRIMINAL for governments to force these people to purchase battery electric vehicles, which is essentially what those states that have adopted California's Advanced Clean Cars II rules have chosen to do. The best advice anyone can give to anyone who is considering the purchase of a battery electric vehicle is to "ensure that charging infrastructure EXISTS BEFORE you purchase one." And I"m not so sure that such infrastructure exists at all, at this point. There are plenty of more "rural" areas you could wander into, and with a low state of battery charge, you might not be able to find charging infrastructure that would allow you to get home. And that's just here in this country -- around the world, humanity has a long, long way to go before it can move beyond the combustion vehicle.
Long over due topic. Most EV owners charge at home most of the time. It is easier and cheaper than either DC fast charging or going to a gas station.
It's easy to say we want more, and we do. But spending other people's money is always easy. The actual solution is figuring out how to make them economically viable. And self-supporting.
I Don’t think free charging should be provided. It breeds resentment from ICE owners and money is better spent expanding and Supporting chargers.
Three places level 2 Chargers should be ubiquitous:
A. Grocery Stores.
B. Movie Theaters (charge up during 2 hour movie)
C. Gyms
Charging rates should support service and maintenance plus a little profit that could be discounted with proof of purchase electronically.
Free charging is actually quite bad and the simple reason why not ICE car resentment, but home charging.
Simply put, when charging is free, people that have home charging end up clogging up the public charger because there's no reason why not. When the public charger is clogged up, people who really need it can't use it. Of course, businesses can work around this problem by simply saturating the site with lots and lots of chargers, but if 90% of the charger use is done by people with home charging, that's really inefficient. You've spent a boatload of money paying for electricity and installing charging equipment, but the chargers have provided the public with very little actual mobility in return.
The simplest way to deter people with home charging from using public charging is to charge a fee. It doesn't need to be huge, it just needs to be a per-kWh rate slightly more than the cost of home charging so that those that can charge at home save money by charging at home, while meanwhile, people who can't charge at home will gladly pay the fee for the service.
Fully agree! Free ones are even better, but unfortunately mega rare in EU
Because there is no such thing as free…. Someone’s is always paying for it…
"The hardware costs a pretty penny", "they don't need 2-5 they need 10 -20", resource strapped cities and states need to fork over more money for what is now a niche albeit growing market. just tbf.
Money can be made back from charging per kWh, which is totally expected. Also it’s not entirely on governments, businesses can do this as well.
@@iMaxPatten true, just saying it aint on their priority list.
Ideally, this would be paid for by the state or national government, not cash strapped local cities. Unfortunately, the US government seems to be putting lots of money into DC fast charging along highways while forgetting about the need for level 2 charging in cities.
In Malaysia the so called leader in the EV community believes that AC charging is a waste of time and DCFC is the best. Misguided people they are.
Glasses are WAY too distracting.
As an EV advocate, I agree with what you're saying, but at the same time, I also disagree that we need more chargers per parking lot. My logic is this:
Until the number of EVs on the road outnumbers ICEs, there is always going to be more ICEs on the roads, which will need space to park. Now, if there were more EV chargers in every parking lot that were ONLY there for EVs to park in while they were being charged, the majority of drivers, those driving ICEs, would have to look for other places to park, or risk getting a fine for parking in an EV only parking space. More is better, most definitely, but seeing as EVs are not in numbers greater than ICEs yet, there isn't as much need for more just yet. I also think faster charging is better, as an EV won't need to be parked up for longer than is really necessary.
In an ideal world, one where EVs are going to outnumber ICEs in the next couple of decades, I would rather see a new parking lot have EV chargers in EVERY parking space and not see ICE drivers getting penalised for parking in one, seeing as there would be plenty to go around for all the EVs that are wanting to park and charge. But, until the number of EVs is high enough and the rules are such that anyone can park in any space, the fewer chargers, the better.
The key is that when the number of chargers is 20 rather than 2, it isn't necessary to reserve the parking spaces in front of them to EVs only anymore. You can still locate the chargers towards the back of the lot as a subtle nudge to encourage people who are not charging to park elsewhere when possible - but those times when the parking lot really is almost full, parking for shoppers takes priority over the chargers.
The need to reserve the parking spaces for EVs is really only necessary today because the number of chargers is very tiny, and you don't want a single gas car preventing people from charging while the surrounding parking spaces are mostly empty. But, when the number of chargers goes up, reserving the parking space for EVs isn't necessary anymore.
The out of spec channels are really great. Please don’t reduce yourself to the lame “weird facial gesture” thumbnails that so many do. Metrics are important but not at the cost of quality content which will yield the best audience.
Thank you for the feedback! The goofy faces are fun but we never desire to make clickbait content. Noted :)
@@outofspecguide can you please finally do a post on your home charging situation? including all the details in terms of what was installed... Thank you...