"Ive seen films recorded with the RED ONE that look like recorded with a phone camera, and Ive seen films recorded with the t2i that look like recorded with a Atari" I think you meant like a Commodore 64.
By having used a lot a red camera, and only a few Ursa, I can testify that when it's coming about color grading, the Red is way above the BM cameras. The point is, the lack of olpf on BM camera will cause some chromatic abberation to be "blend" by the sensor. They are cyan, or magenta. This will cause to get some badly color reflexions, and will are some green area on red material (for example, in skintone) and red color in green zone (grass and tree for example). But Red makes cinema camera, black magic makes "cinematic" camera. That is not the same goal (nor the same price ...
you got the wrong setting in davinci when you import the DNG RAW, the true DNG of blackmagic looks very flat when you set up the davinci correctly. your ''unprocesed RAW'' looks very saturated to be ''unproseced RAW'' yo need to set it correctly!
The red camera has much less exposure and detail in the green channel. If you look at the dress, it goes purple on the red camera, whereas it's sea green on the blackmagic. On the other hand, there's loads of shadow detail on the red channel on the red camera, so everything trends towards going purple or ruby red in the shadows. This is interesting.
Thanks for taking the time and doing this! Great job, nice length of a video. Personally, I think the URSA looks a bit more "videoy" in your shots (but nicer skintones). But much of what we see there is grading anyway, and I'd say both cameras offer raw results out of which you can generate superb pictures. Epic Dragon certainly offers features that URSA doesn't have - but when looking at value for money RED will have to offer more in the future.
Yeah. I can clearly see the magenta/red bias in the RED. I do prefer the URSA's image in this test. But what a bulky piece of gear for what it can do. Nice to see images holding up from 7-8 year old cameras. Makes me feel better about owning a 4 year old camera.
The BlackMagic Cintel film scanner also have fixed pattern noise. From my experience you have very good ability to overexpose the scan to bring back highlights on the Cintel, which works great for negatives and duplicates but when you start to work with prints the contrast on the film is basically too high. It has an HDR mode, which scans the film twice and merges the RAW footage which certainly clean things up but at the cost of it being much slower. But then again, the Scanity is like 16 times more expensive so considering the cost and overall performance I still think it's a great product.
Have to say that Native ISO in Both cameras isn't 400 but 800 ISO, which gives more recovery information in over and under exposed shots in an equal value!
Red still looked like it had a better colour range. There seems to be something in black magics that draws everything to the teal or orange and little inbetween
I used my red in icy storm, sandstorm, high and low temperature always without a pouch or any cover and never screwed up. Our Blackmagic died at the first setup when we turned on :) And after a month we got it back repaired. NO DISCUSS
***** Where's the both? Hehe. Let's call them, resolved when we can see footage tests for this very thing. Until then we can wait. Don't get me wrong, I too was an URSA mini, so.
I would liked to have seen a comparison with mid greys placed at the recommenced IRE for each camera, that would have been a better test of skin tones.
Ursa is more flexible in post and color grading, it's data rate is damn huge as 500MB/S, Also comes up with different flavour in pro res 444 xq and hq, proxy 12 bit, with 15 stops of available dynamic range, and cost is very affordable as compared to red.am talking about ursamini pro.
If you expose for 800 on Red MX cameras you get way more dynamic range in the highlights. Exposing for 400 is just not smart. Your Red camera also has a focus issue, and a back-focus issue I can see by eye.
Actually I do. It affects focus roll-off from sharpest point in image, something a prosumer (like you) likely doesn't know. I went to real film school (University) and apprenticed with big league Hollywood DPs. Did you?
lol, Nope you don't. You clearly don't know what back focus is. Also calling people "Prosumer" makes me think you don't even work in the film industry.
While I commend Black magic on where they've come compared the the RED the skin tones look very green/yellow to me almost conveying a jaundice look. By itself the Black Magic is fine, it's RAW recovery is great and it's motion is fantastic but RED's color and sharpness is vastly superior as one would or should expect.
Great work thanks guys. For me, the URSA still leans its final look towards that sweet DSLR digital look. Do you think that's BM's intention or do you think they are chasing film replication?
Hmmm I've really wanted to gravitate towards your opinion as Im looking for the cheaper option to buy. But still thinking the URSA here looks closer to DSLR footage.
Does everyone see that fact that Ursa overxposed ? I judge not only for those highlights at the background, but the face : ursa is lighter. Just set down exposure for one step and you will see another picture. Sorry my English.
URSA Mini 4K has better color and sharpness than the RED Raven and scarlet. The RED image really blows the URSA out of the water with the Epic Dragon. But all the REDs have better DR. I work with all of these often.
All the Red Epic shots are exposed fairly lower then then Ursa. The Ursa recovered the highlights when the Red likely brought up the exposure . With almost all cameras you are better exposing to the right then to the left if you have to. Both great cameras but this didn't seem fair.
Hi. Great video. The BMPC4K has the same sensor as URSA and some units have the same FPN. The latest firmware update claims to have corrected the noise problem. Some people say it still persists. Is it a software or a hardware issue?
You should test BM RAW RECOVERY with quick movement. It looks just as bad as HDR multiple exposure. So different cams for different jobs... Also - come on - you could've done better job in Resolve with matching those shots.
What's "Raw Recovery" exactly? It looks a little like you're comparing a redlogfilm image to BMs very contrasty rec709 debayer in Resolve for the initial test? And you've also over saturated the red and its a bit off balance? Tint issue? I think you have a few colourspace issues with this test. It would be interesting if you put everything into ACES to level out the cameras and publish those results
Great comparison video! I like the zeiss super speed 50mm u used here, may I know which ver is it that u used on the cam? Mark i, ii, iii? :) Thanks for all the Ursa test efforts!! Like your videos..
UrsaCam.com Thank you for responding. Thought there are diff versions to the zeiss super speeds, juz wondering which version of the lens u r using. Are the rest of the URSA test videos by Ursacam done with these lenses as well? I like the look of this lens+camera combi, gorgeous!
the cdng blackmagic cameras creates are LINEAR hence why you get so much noise in the shadows: LINEAR encoded images retain a lot more data in the highlights than the shadow THEREFORE if you are shooting LINEAR RAW you tend to OVEREXPOSE because you can always bring back those details that looked "lost" in the highlights. Man, trying to recover shadows from a LINEAR file it's just wrong..
Her skin looks worse on Blackmagic cameras because they have no OLPF - and emphasize wrinkles and defects in unnatural way. If you can't see that you have an unrefined eye. Highlight roll-off on BalckMagic is also utter crap.
hi, can i ask you a question? why is the skintone on the graded Red shot always a bit too purple? is it my monitor? cause the one on the usra always looks good, with the red it seems like a problem in the tonality
+david valens Just the 4k, we purchased both models but have only received the 4k as of yet. Join our Facebook group to stay up to date. facebook.com/groups/UrsaCam
Allen Achterberg That's a good point I should address. We didn't do an official grade on either of these clips. That is to say we weren't trying to match one to another. Instead we took the RAW files from both cameras and just tried to recover what we could with basic settings. I'm sure we could have really pushed both cameras further if we spent time grading them the way we would a commercial project. For this test though we wanted to keep it as simple and basic as possible so as not to give a false result.
I was wondering. I got a bmpcc and I am looking for a more FPS camera to do slow motion Would the URSA be the better choice on the market? Is the FPN still present? Or firmware fixed it?
He's a bit misinformed when he says that a Red Epic is a $6K camera, especially in 2014. Try more like $15-$20K just for the brain. Even now, in 2017, an Epic-X will run you $10K+ for the brain or $9K if you're really lucky.
Download a single frame of this Ursa demo to try it for yourself. Included is one CinemaDNG file (Raw from Ursa) and a before and after shot for your comparison. Download here... we.tl/89KqV6KxdV
It's not stupid. It's just prohibitively expensive and not justified for the majority of productions. It's also not required, because the above results are far from being HORRIBLE. I've seen my share of HORRIBLE film shots. :)
i think it's a question of vision. When you do abitude at digital...it seems very good......that's all. Nobody make a direct comparison.....also in photography. i leave you some link....if you are able to do the same in digital....ok! In addition: just 10 year ago all production used 16 mm film, and nobody cryed. The cost of film is very relative.....in 90% of cases, It is the distribution companies to make trouble.
![Tee Grizzley - Detroit (Feat. 42 Dugg) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aeKfTtt0x14/mqdefault.jpg)
I would like a red.... but it's just too expensive
how do you know someone is shooting with a red? they'll mention the price.
Brisdad53 you're implying you need a red to make a film. lol. I've seen people make better films with a t2i than some reds, hahaha
You barely see any REDs in big productions, the big leagues are filled with Arris
Jesse Compton Red is basically the Alienware and apple of the computer world while Blackmagic is Asus.
Take This L Red is like Alienware, Arri is like Apple, and Bm is like Acer ;) haha
"Ive seen films recorded with the RED ONE that look like recorded with a phone camera, and Ive seen films recorded with the t2i that look like recorded with a Atari" I think you meant like a Commodore 64.
By having used a lot a red camera, and only a few Ursa, I can testify that when it's coming about color grading, the Red is way above the BM cameras. The point is, the lack of olpf on BM camera will cause some chromatic abberation to be "blend" by the sensor. They are cyan, or magenta. This will cause to get some badly color reflexions, and will are some green area on red material (for example, in skintone) and red color in green zone (grass and tree for example). But Red makes cinema camera, black magic makes "cinematic" camera. That is not the same goal (nor the same price ...
I wonder how it looks like with the new 4,6K sensor of the Ursa 2015
you got the wrong setting in davinci when you import the DNG RAW, the true DNG of blackmagic looks very flat when you set up the davinci correctly. your ''unprocesed RAW'' looks very saturated to be ''unproseced RAW'' yo need to set it correctly!
It's a totally biased review. Check graded color of models dress.
The red camera has much less exposure and detail in the green channel. If you look at the dress, it goes purple on the red camera, whereas it's sea green on the blackmagic. On the other hand, there's loads of shadow detail on the red channel on the red camera, so everything trends towards going purple or ruby red in the shadows. This is interesting.
not seeing any difference in 144p
did you notice there was a girl in the video ;)
+Yuri Better get new eyes.
Thanks for taking the time and doing this! Great job, nice length of a video. Personally, I think the URSA looks a bit more "videoy" in your shots (but nicer skintones). But much of what we see there is grading anyway, and I'd say both cameras offer raw results out of which you can generate superb pictures. Epic Dragon certainly offers features that URSA doesn't have - but when looking at value for money RED will have to offer more in the future.
I like the fact that everything looks a bit smaller in the red footage. Better perspective.
Yeah. I can clearly see the magenta/red bias in the RED. I do prefer the URSA's image in this test. But what a bulky piece of gear for what it can do. Nice to see images holding up from 7-8 year old cameras. Makes me feel better about owning a 4 year old camera.
I've had TWO BM Production cameras with major fixed pattern noise issues. Fantastic in good light but worthless otherwise.
The BlackMagic Cintel film scanner also have fixed pattern noise. From my experience you have very good ability to overexpose the scan to bring back highlights on the Cintel, which works great for negatives and duplicates but when you start to work with prints the contrast on the film is basically too high. It has an HDR mode, which scans the film twice and merges the RAW footage which certainly clean things up but at the cost of it being much slower.
But then again, the Scanity is like 16 times more expensive so considering the cost and overall performance I still think it's a great product.
Have to say that Native ISO in Both cameras isn't 400 but 800 ISO, which gives more recovery information in over and under exposed shots in an equal value!
Finally I see a good dynamic range test. Thanks.
Red still looked like it had a better colour range. There seems to be something in black magics that draws everything to the teal or orange and little inbetween
I used my red in icy storm, sandstorm, high and low temperature always without a pouch or any cover and never screwed up. Our Blackmagic died at the first setup when we turned on :) And after a month we got it back repaired. NO DISCUSS
Most of these issues look to be resolved with the new 15 stops of Dynamic range Ursa sensor.
***** Where's the footage?
savedfaves Where's the camera?
***** Where's the both? Hehe. Let's call them, resolved when we can see footage tests for this very thing. Until then we can wait. Don't get me wrong, I too was an URSA mini, so.
I would liked to have seen a comparison with mid greys placed at the recommenced IRE for each camera, that would have been a better test of skin tones.
Ursa is more flexible in post and color grading, it's data rate is damn huge as 500MB/S, Also comes up with different flavour in pro res 444 xq and hq, proxy 12 bit, with 15 stops of available dynamic range, and cost is very affordable as compared to red.am talking about ursamini pro.
Of course the solution is proper lighting and exposure. If you're trying to "fix it in post" then you done screwed up.
how much did they pay you to favour the Red ?. Expensive does not mean better. Ursa is a great camera.
It didn't seem like they were favoring the Red? The Ursa won every test except the deep underexposure seems like?
I like the Red Epic's skin texture and color more.
The RED's red skin tone is video-y, the Ursa's yellowish skin tone is considered more filmic.
If you expose for 800 on Red MX cameras you get way more dynamic range in the highlights. Exposing for 400 is just not smart. Your Red camera also has a focus issue, and a back-focus issue I can see by eye.
Robert Ruffo lol, your comment indicates that you have no idea what back focus is :)
Actually I do. It affects focus roll-off from sharpest point in image, something a prosumer (like you) likely doesn't know. I went to real film school (University) and apprenticed with big league Hollywood DPs. Did you?
lol, Nope you don't. You clearly don't know what back focus is. Also calling people "Prosumer" makes me think you don't even work in the film industry.
I still like the skin tone on Red much more, good work on the video btw
While I commend Black magic on where they've come compared the the RED the skin tones look very green/yellow to me almost conveying a jaundice look.
By itself the Black Magic is fine, it's RAW recovery is great and it's motion is fantastic but RED's color and sharpness is vastly superior as one would or should expect.
Can you compare the ursa vs red in more scenes?
You didn't balance the shots, dress, skin and grass are completely different hue, no wonder you prefer URSA skin tone in this set up :)
Great work thanks guys. For me, the URSA still leans its final look towards that sweet DSLR digital look. Do you think that's BM's intention or do you think they are chasing film replication?
Hmmm I've really wanted to gravitate towards your opinion as Im looking for the cheaper option to buy. But still thinking the URSA here looks closer to DSLR footage.
Does everyone see that fact that Ursa overxposed ? I judge not only for those highlights at the background, but the face : ursa is lighter. Just set down exposure for one step and you will see another picture. Sorry my English.
Great video! Is it me or does the Ursa have an almost HFR motion look? I've been noticing this on a lot of tests shot at 24fps.
Im an Ursa Mini owner, but the reds colours look way better. The Blackmagic skin tones are too green
URSA Mini 4K has better color and sharpness than the RED Raven and scarlet. The RED image really blows the URSA out of the water with the Epic Dragon. But all the REDs have better DR. I work with all of these often.
All the Red Epic shots are exposed fairly lower then then Ursa. The Ursa recovered the highlights when the Red likely brought up the exposure . With almost all cameras you are better exposing to the right then to the left if you have to. Both great cameras but this didn't seem fair.
Red really made the model look RED.XD
ANNNNDDD NOW, the BM URSA Mini is coming out!
Hi. Great video. The BMPC4K has the same sensor as URSA and some units have the same FPN. The latest firmware update claims to have corrected the noise problem. Some people say it still persists. Is it a software or a hardware issue?
pixelatorNYC I'm not sure the issue will be fixed until the new sensor. Same thing I'm hoping with the black hole sun problem
UrsaCam.com whats Raw Recovery???
Hugh Jazz This video we did explains it
ruclips.net/video/x8hDck8zOPo/видео.html
Welcome in future with ursA mini pro G2.
That tells red to go red in anger, VFM
How can you talk about skintone after you graded the footage? I'm not saying that Ursa is not a great camera but this test is not objective at all.
+Nick Ashley Isn't that where it counts? Why would you comment skin tone on log material, everything looks terrible anyway in log space.
isn't red is little red. not grading fault. blackmagic has green mix in skin tones.
FPN has been fixed on the URSA v2 sensor???
Best comparison! ^_^
You should test BM RAW RECOVERY with quick movement. It looks just as bad as HDR multiple exposure. So different cams for different jobs... Also - come on - you could've done better job in Resolve with matching those shots.
grass and background looks more natural and RED camera
Дайте любую камеру футбол поснимать!
What's "Raw Recovery" exactly? It looks a little like you're comparing a redlogfilm image to BMs very contrasty rec709 debayer in Resolve for the initial test? And you've also over saturated the red and its a bit off balance? Tint issue?
I think you have a few colourspace issues with this test. It would be interesting if you put everything into ACES to level out the cameras and publish those results
Great comparison video! I like the zeiss super speed 50mm u used here, may I know which ver is it that u used on the cam? Mark i, ii, iii? :) Thanks for all the Ursa test efforts!! Like your videos..
Thanks Guan Jin Sen . Sorry but I'm not sure I understand your question, the Ursa was a pre-release camera and the Red was an EPIC-M MYSTERIUM-X
UrsaCam.com Thank you for responding. Thought there are diff versions to the zeiss super speeds, juz wondering which version of the lens u r using. Are the rest of the URSA test videos by Ursacam done with these lenses as well? I like the look of this lens+camera combi, gorgeous!
the cdng blackmagic cameras creates are LINEAR hence why you get so much noise in the shadows: LINEAR encoded images retain a lot more data in the highlights than the shadow THEREFORE if you are shooting LINEAR RAW you tend to OVEREXPOSE because you can always bring back those details that looked "lost" in the highlights. Man, trying to recover shadows from a LINEAR file it's just wrong..
"Graded with Davinci" is quite subjective.
I use the original bmcc 2.5k and ohhhhhhh yeah that noise can be ruthless lol
Her skin looks worse on Blackmagic cameras because they have no OLPF - and emphasize wrinkles and defects in unnatural way. If you can't see that you have an unrefined eye. Highlight roll-off on BalckMagic is also utter crap.
Prefer the look and skin tone of the RED. Also, the grass is green on the other side @ 2:11 (no pun intended).
hi, can i ask you a question? why is the skintone on the graded Red shot always a bit too purple? is it my monitor? cause the one on the usra always looks good, with the red it seems like a problem in the tonality
+superwolf95 The red looked too magenta and the Ursa looked to green.
Is it possible to create a video on the post production work flow of URSA Mini, pls
will you do the same review with the ursa mini 4.6k?
+david valens We just received our Ursa mini, so test coming up shortly. Stay tuned.
4.6k?
+david valens Just the 4k, we purchased both models but have only received the 4k as of yet. Join our Facebook group to stay up to date. facebook.com/groups/UrsaCam
you guys couldn't try to at least match the greens in the grass???
Allen Achterberg That's a good point I should address. We didn't do an official grade on either of these clips. That is to say we weren't trying to match one to another. Instead we took the RAW files from both cameras and just tried to recover what we could with basic settings. I'm sure we could have really pushed both cameras further if we spent time grading them the way we would a commercial project. For this test though we wanted to keep it as simple and basic as possible so as not to give a false result.
Ursa Looks Far Greener to me.
Question about the Ursa, is the green in her hair from the grade? or did the camera read the color tone as green? Whats going on there?
I was wondering. I got a bmpcc and I am looking for a more FPS camera to do slow motion Would the URSA be the better choice on the market? Is the FPN still present? Or firmware fixed it?
Red's skin tone looks way better then ursa's
So which is the better so I can get to shoot a feature fil
conclusion save some money and
buy zebras
Epic ICQ problem in red color
Hello,
Is it the red scarlet?
Hey guys is this URSA 4K EF mount with 12 dynamic stops ?
Was it the RED Dragon or MX?
EPIC-M MYSTERIUM-X
What is superspeed lens?
good
They both make the skin look like plastic.
well. it seem all the problem the red camera had in this video is caused by someone who don't know how to grade red raw clips...
Ursa wins. Yes I said it.
Awesome review! Please come join our FB group: facebook.com/groups/BlackmagicURSA/
In 2020 both these look like crap
next time, please test with interracial lesbians.
ursa is better than red
He's a bit misinformed when he says that a Red Epic is a $6K camera, especially in 2014. Try more like $15-$20K just for the brain. Even now, in 2017, an Epic-X will run you $10K+ for the brain or $9K if you're really lucky.
The $6k was referring to the price of the black magic not the Red
у
Join our brand new FB discussion group! facebook.com/groups/UrsaCam
2:11 No it's not. It's plain obvious Ursa is better.
Download a single frame of this Ursa demo to try it for yourself. Included is one CinemaDNG file (Raw from Ursa) and a before and after shot for your comparison.
Download here...
we.tl/89KqV6KxdV
What a stupid test!
both orrible. nothing compare with Kodak vision film
No one gives a flying fuck about your Kodak film, dude.
shots fired
yes.....maybe. Exept for Nolan, Spielberg, Abrams...and many more......
it's very stupid to loose time and money with digital
It's not stupid. It's just prohibitively expensive and not justified for the majority of productions. It's also not required, because the above results are far from being HORRIBLE. I've seen my share of HORRIBLE film shots. :)
i think it's a question of vision. When you do abitude at digital...it seems very good......that's all.
Nobody make a direct comparison.....also in photography. i leave you some link....if you are able to do the same in digital....ok!
In addition: just 10 year ago all production used 16 mm film, and nobody cryed. The cost of film is very relative.....in 90% of cases,
It is the distribution companies to make trouble.