@dumaran8861 anything the commander would have done should have been done by the COMMANDING SARGENT MAJOR and I personally blame him for what happened that day
These are the exact same issues that we had to deal with in Vietnam. People in tents second guessing soldiers engaged in close-quarters combat. Unbelievable!
DUSTOFF was on station for a very significant length of time. We made multiple runs up into the valley in an attempt to locate CPT Swensen. He was able to coordinate a CCP and HLZ under the most hazardous conditions. SFC W was my first patient and was flown to FOB Wright. Upon the exfil we took small arms fire from areas north of the village. We returned to the Ganjgal and made multiple runs up the valley again. Once again CPT S was able to coordinate another HLZ for 3 ANSF soldiers.
RIP the 5 soldiers of The Battle of Ganjgal AGST01 Kenneth W. Westbrook (August 13, 1968 - October 7, 2009), aged 41 MGSGT Edwin W. Johnson (October 8, 1977 - September 8, 2009), aged 31 1LT Michael “Mike” E. Johnson (March 30, 1984 - September 8, 2009), aged 25 MGSGT Aaron M. Kenefick (February 5, 1979 - September 8, 2009), aged 30 HCPO3 James R. Layton (January 29, 1987 - September 8, 2009), aged 22 You will always be remembered.
5 soldiers? As far as I know, only one soldier was killed in Ganjgal. Three marines and a sailor were also killed though, perhaps that's what you meant.
even in crude 3D animation, they show the ANA at 17:10 est. shooting blindly and then it pans to the Marines accurately aiming at the enemy. made me chuckle, (since I got my DD-214).
@@TheMistaMunz Not often talked about but one of the Kiowa Pilots was a prior Marine Infantry. He flew table top gun missions over Meyers head to cover him during extractions. Brothers to the end... You never stop being a Marine.....
No excuse. CAS assets should have been on station, period. There should be no denial of support when troops in contacts and taking casualties. Especially if lessons learned in earlier campaigns show grave consequences of such lack of support. SW teams should be dedicated and part of mission planning of each patrol. Especially if the terrain is elevated and provides a well place of cover and concealment for the enemy. An hour and a half to 2 hours after i make the first call, is just too goddamn late.
I think because it was such a hodgepodge of random people. If it was the 101st or 82nd it’d be like oh hell no, we are gonna support our guys, we are NOT gonna have this debacle mar our reputation with a bunch of casualties, but instead it was like wait, someone needs help? Who exactly? Uhhh, never heard of them, sorry, we will get around to it if we have time but right now some actual units with a name and some pride are taking priority
"The U.S. gov pays the family of Taliban fighters KIA by U S. Forces. Out of the 50-80mil they send them every month! Some of which is to fight ISIS." Listen to this guy! Who is he explaining this to? Himself?
You are correct and the marine who survived is Medal of honor Recipient Dakota Meyers I was deployed to fob Monti during this operation and I personally say someone should have been thrown in jail after this happened
What happened here is the bureaucracy is created to efficiently manage the resources became so complexly bureaucratic with many dependencies and constraints that cost the guys in the fields their lives. In plain words, the critical assets are there but not allowed to be deployed or do anything effective. That only encouraged the enemies to be more aggressive knowing that their actions resulted in no quick or effective responses. The guys and gals at the TOC and other command posts must be selected from soldiers in the fields. Not more bureaucratic process and paperwork training.
@@ACIDICcitric he was saying listen to a different person talk about this, he didn't say he was there. What a bunch of babies, you weren't there either so shat ap. Makes no sense for you baby girls to say that. Were you there!! Like damn you got him there 🤣
I STRONGLY encourage everyone to watch this podcast. ruclips.net/video/E6LbwCKJ0lo/видео.html Dakota Meyers was one of the Marines who went back into the valley to find his team despite being ordered NOT to go in. This guy's story is really fucking heavy and goes into great detail of that day. This representation is half true at best and does not honor those who fell in battle. The ANAs and Marines weren't fighting farmers or goat herders. They were up against a large well organized foreign element and mostly pakistani taliban who were geared with plate carriers, helmets and well supplied for a heavy attack. Whoever was in the TOC could've faced a court martial for breaking fire mission protocol but would've saved so many lives, the fact that they didn't only proves that their own asses mattered more than the men dying in the AO.
There were some officers relieved after this incident but that’s not going to bring those guys back now the failure was how the entire Afghan War was being fought in 2009 with such limited assets. I was QRF to this fight attached to 20th SFG but by the time we got there the fight was over and the enemy had gone. 1/32 Inf. had too much going on at the time to support this operation really and there were so many failures in planning it is ultimately why it failed. You would have Wanat in 2008 and literally less than 30 days after this fight you had COP Keating almost get over run and all of these really were leadership failures at the top but let’s just award a bunch of medals to make everyone feel better and relieve a couple of people that really had no business being in the positions that they were in to start with and somehow that will make everything right, sad!
This was a clusterfuck from the start. One problem was leading from the rear and not listening to the personnel on the front. Denying indirect fire and air support caused the deaths, The Army unit should have went in anyway to support the Marines.
I listened to that podcast and it made me cringe. Just to think that our high ups didn't listen to the ground force the ones who were fighting that they needed help is sickening. To me I can't grip that people will rather let soldiers died than getting court marshall. I would have gotten court marshalled bc I would have gave those guys air support no matter what. Here SGT. Meyer feels he let his team down by not being able to get to them in time, no our military let all those guys down. He did not leave his men behind, he went and risked his and other soldiers life to leave no man behind and I salute him and all the other soldiers that day. Read the book or listen to Jocko's podcast, it will move you. Warning it's heart wrenching
You could hear Jocko short circuiting over what he was hearing/reading. His professionalism kept him from voicing his true opinions. I will say I look forward to the day Jocko gets to meet that Battle Captain.
Why the hell was the 11B platoon not released to get into the fight? What ate up BN command staff was directing this? Troops in heavy contact. Get the QRF THERE ASAP. Jesus christ
"When I'm being second-guessed by higher or somebody that's sitting in an air-conditioned [office] why [the] hell am I even out there in the first place?" Let's sit back and play Nintendo." Capt Swenson finally left the Army in 2011. now after he recives the MOH, the Army is kissing his ass, asking him back to active duty? this is typical Army FUBAR!
@@Nimrodbodeinejr it was a humvee. The interview you are probably thinking of does make it sound like he was driving a technical (pickup with pkm) but he was in a armored humvee turret though it doesnt take away from his heroism because one rpg or on bullet could have stopped him easily
The infamous Kunar province, never thought I'd miss that place. While there we couldn't wait to be back in the states. Now that we've been back for a while I wish I could go back. Life was so much easier, we had a routine down. Don't get me wrong it sucked and some days shit happened that made our assholes pucker but we had a purpose...
@@ThatTURK1 To survive, to thrive in hell with your battle buddies was the purpose. the political shit doesn't matter to the average grunt on the ground, at least not for long.
Geez, this submitting requests for Arty or Air Support up the line, thru several filters and levels and waiting for approval sounds like a huge cluster that doesn't hamper the Tal from taking the initiative.
As bad as this was, The willingness to make and then release this video does inspire confidence that the US military although will always makes mistakes and covers officers asses atleast they then use it to educate future and current officers , NCOs, Enlisted.
Surely White Phosphorus fired at minimum safe distance from village or fighting troops would be better than nothing. If it is behind the troops at least they have a shorter distance to run before the smoke obscures them? Also why dont they have normal smoke? If you are concerned about to much firepower wouldn't you up the smoke ammo to compensate?
It makes me sick to see how many times they were denied support. We always seem like we send soldiers into battle with little man power and restrict air support. Smh as if we cant afford it $. We would save more lives if we reversed the situation and gave them overwhelming man power and actually complete these missions.
One devastating thing I learned from this video that blew my MF mind is the fact that they unknowingly gave the enemy an entire extra day to coordinate this ambush as it was meant for Sept 7 but was delayed to Sept 8... fucking tragic
***** You are so absolutely right. It is not. Dude, I have been missing you and being able to talk to you daily. Google is doing something VERY strange with my Email account. They are allowing me to sign in and accepting my password, but it just freezes on the "gathering information" page. I am unable to obtain any of my mail. I believe I am going to start a new Email account with a different provider and I will be sending you an email very shortly. There is quite a bit I need to discuss with you and Gmail is simply taking up way too much of my time by keeping me out of my mail for literally hours before I am able to obtain my mail or even compose. SO....if you receive an email from an address you have never seen before, please do not delete thinking it is SPAM,,,It is probably just me!! Please give my love to your beautiful wife, Selma and I am hoping that since Spring and Summer is right around the corner that you and Selma and me and Blair will be able to get together soon and maybe spend a day at the range or hiking in Bankhead and a BBQ to top off the evening. Certain friendships are made by God for very particular reasons and I can't help but to believe or friendship has a higher purpose. I'm going to get on obtaining a new email address and I will be sending you an email very soon! HUGS!!! XOXOXOXO Manders
Undermanned HQ Co. + Care for Civilians + Reliance on Afhgan 'Militia' = Massacre. Caring for Civilian lives, and placing reliance on pathetic excuses for a 'Police Force'. Cost us too much in this war on terror. Perhaps if used the Good ole ROE's and Doctrines, Afghan and Iraq would be a Slam dunk Victory.
I noticed how subtlety they called out the Command Post for their incompetence at the end by admitting how grossly unqualified they were for the job. The amount of bureaucracy that the troops in contact had to jump through to simply get some artillery or air support was ridiculous. I guarantee that whoever wrote that ROE they used did not intend for them to interpret it as _“deny troops all requests for support in the face of the enemy.”_ This engagement shows that the Command did not trust their own troops on the ground to make a judgement call, despite being their only real eyes and ears on the scene. That lack of faith in them costed those men their lives. If you are back at the CP and don’t have a full grasp of the situation, you need to at least be able to believe that your own men on the ground fully understand the commander’s intent and can make a good decision on their own from what’s happening in front of them. This constant refusal to grant them the support they requested allowed the enemy to gain a major tactical advantage, which caused them to be overrun. This is the inherent problem when you centralize all decision making to the Command and not trust your frontline leaders being engaged to make their own judgment calls.
Mortar indirect fire support was not considered but machine guns were? Is there a statistical bases that indirect fire support will hit civilians? Could this have formed the basis of the decision?
Is there a quota for the amount of dead people you need per air asset? Pathetic. Just like Swenson said, he was the ground commander. Is the TOC there to support and oversee for asset allotment or act like they’re on the ground during. The TOC didn’t have field grades in their office anyhow. Complete the f’in paperwork correctly and provide the damn support.
An interesting sanitized review of a mission that illustrates how coalition forces (read the United States) failed to train the ANA (Afghan National Army) in sustained counter insurgency methods. The obvious dependency on aircraft to support troops in contact and lack of indirect fire organic to maneuver units is obvious even if there was an efficient commo plan and proficient battalion command staff with a vested interest in the success of their subordinate troops on the ground. You can see this over and over again where troops in contact call air support and in comes an expensive technological wonder that at times deploys ordinance and other times does low passes with useless flares as a show of force. It doesn’t take a West Point Commandant to realize the Afghan’s will never learn to effectively be a stand alone counter insurgency force with that type of training. Sad but true we set the ANA up for failure by not teaching them to fight like the Taliban instead of rich Americans. The Taliban do not have air support. The Taliban are within the population or could move freely even in villages they were not tied into like Hazara and Tajik villages they passed through. If we only trained the ANA to use RPG and mortars for fire support. If only we insisted the ANA never wear uniforms and only wear their local garb. If only we formed community defense forces where they fought for their home villages instead of idealistic desegregated Tajik, Hazara, Pashtun etc… Army. If only we inspired the ANA to fight for a cause greater than money. If only we didn’t train them to fight like Americans a historically inept counter insurgency force with a disdain for living in the population we are trying to win and a reliance on conventional kill technology that cost more than most countries entire budget. I say this through the eyes of advising 1st Kandak and ANP mentor teams. I did not disdain my deployments, I actually considered them the highlight of my 20 years. I have no bitterness just regret of the big green machine inability to think outside the box and go native. Of course this country isn’t prepared to pay that kind of cost in personnel on the ground and command staff promotions. “All Volunteers “ God bless those dirty boots on the ground!!
Why on earth would you hold a meeting with the elders of the village at daylight anyway. Should have waited to later in the day so more intelligence of the valley could be established.
And here was a huge sign that was ignored when they showed up there were large number of civilians leaving the valley with all their valuables because they knew what was waiting for them.
@@bigt6227 If you’re gonna run your big mouth keyboard Rambo, why don’t you let us know your unit, rank, and dates of service? STFU until you provide proof you’ve had rounds fly past your head other than playing Call of Duty.
Why do you need approval for fire support? If your the the ranking officer on the ground under heavy attack you should be able to call in fire missions yourself.
This sums up how the Army is now. You didnt go through the proper channels so we will deny your request. Dont care if guys are dying. Cowards getting promoted is what's this is called.
Thats why soldiers died thst day. "cos all they got". was request denied.. Its like sending a person with a kinfe into a gun fight. They needed support and got jack s**t.. And when they did damage was already done life's was already lost that didnt need to be if support was given!!!.. When soldiers are begging for help and get nothing something is serious wrong!!!
What a horror story of ineptitude by Army leadership. Heard several Army Os were "reprimanded". Hell, they should have been brought up on charges of incompetence.
its funny how far from the truth this video is. making the commanders in charge seem less guilty then they really are. they denied a med evac because the downed soldiers were marines also that swt 2 took three requests before being approved they were told 15 minutes for support 3 times smh.
The whole thing was a clusterfuck when they were being over run and calling for artillery and mortar strikes the command was ineffective back at the talk
No one ever appreciates the hard work and reassurances the top brass go out of their way to instill into their soldiers when they put them in harm's way on sometimes a pointless or just suicidal mission.. "Listen up boys, you will most definitely be tested, and be on your game cause we know for a fact it's going to get dicey.. But we want to reassure you that we are taking safety very seriously. You won't have to worry, myself and the other top officers will be miles away and not in any harm. We know you were worried about this from the start so we just wanted to put your minds at ease.. Also, umm right now we sorta have some bad pr going in the press, so a heads up that you won't be getting any reasonable requests for air support. I know that breaks down into some of you really getting the shit end of the stick, but if it helps in anyway these commands are being sent from Washington from a couple senators who just sent me a selfie of them at a very expensive & prestigious steak house.. so they are very safe too so no worries.. Alright good luck and we'll see some of you later"
I’ll tell ya what didn’t occur in that command post that should of been top priority & that’s getting Apaches on station to help these guys push the enemy back. Idk how many times they were leaving to go assist & were told turn around & a couple who were almost on station only to be told turn around. It was left to 2 guys to drive an unarmored pickup truck belonging to ANA with their rifles & a mounted mg to defend themselves. This battle of Ganjgal was a failure in leadership from the Officers who were nice & safe back at the TOC & CP just like The Battle of Wanat & The Battle of COP Keating were & the worst part is that the public only knows of these battles bc their were CMOH given out in each, there were a ton of Purple Hearts, and the main reason these are some of the most known battles is bc there’s a movie of 1, 1 was at the time the most Americans lost in a battle, & another(this 1) bc of sheer bravery shown by Myer. Like I said sadly there’s a bunch more battles just like these where the senior leadership failed their guys in the field by not providing the tools they needed & were told they would get if they ever needed them. We’re trained to fight with air power assets & when those are denied sadly this is what happens!
There were some officers relieved after this incident but that’s not going to bring those guys back now, the failure was how the entire Afghan War was being fought in 2009 with such limited assets. I was QRF to this fight attached to 20th SFG but by the time we got there the fight was over and the enemy had gone. 1/32 Inf. had too much going on at the time to support this operation really and there were so many failures in planning it is ultimately why it failed. You would have Wanat in 2008 and literally less than 30 days after this fight you had COP Keating almost get over run and all of these really were leadership failures at the top but let’s just award a bunch of medals to make everyone feel better and relieve a couple of people that really had no business being in the positions that they were in to start with and somehow that will make everything right, sad!
Why is there absolutely no mention of the actions of Captain Swenson that day, for which he received the Medal of Honor? There was tremendous personal incompetence and institutional stupidity at play, but at least one man stands out as a true hero. It is very telling that he is completely absent from this presentation.
Denying support? Ive never heard of that even in Vietnam. Why were operations begun without out proper Command and their experience they provided.. why was not AIR requisitioned before the op? Some ticket punching SOB should have been flogged for these multiple errors. Yeah im quarterbacking this, but im right. Too bad i am, id rather have our people alive.
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The commanders incompetence is appalling
Im a year late to respond to this comment But, as he said near the beginning Commander Was on LEAVE Aka Day off with no replacement
This is a normal occurrence. I absolutely hate officers, they are completely useless.
my question is how do these officers know the support isn't needed when they are not in the direct firefight?
@dumaran8861 anything the commander would have done should have been done by the COMMANDING SARGENT MAJOR and I personally blame him for what happened that day
These are the exact same issues that we had to deal with in Vietnam. People in tents second guessing soldiers engaged in close-quarters combat. Unbelievable!
Request denied, soldiers die.
DUSTOFF was on station for a very significant length of time. We made multiple runs up into the valley in an attempt to locate CPT Swensen. He was able to coordinate a CCP and HLZ under the most hazardous conditions. SFC W was my first patient and was flown to FOB Wright. Upon the exfil we took small arms fire from areas north of the village. We returned to the Ganjgal and made multiple runs up the valley again. Once again CPT S was able to coordinate another HLZ for 3 ANSF soldiers.
god bless you for your service and for your actions on that tragic day.
Hey the two marines were Dakota Meyer and I believe a guy Rodriguez. They even made him Hispanic in the animation lol
Yeah he’s Mexican but was raised in Texas
RIP the 5 soldiers of The Battle of Ganjgal
AGST01 Kenneth W. Westbrook (August 13, 1968 - October 7, 2009), aged 41
MGSGT Edwin W. Johnson (October 8, 1977 - September 8, 2009), aged 31
1LT Michael “Mike” E. Johnson (March 30, 1984 - September 8, 2009), aged 25
MGSGT Aaron M. Kenefick (February 5, 1979 - September 8, 2009), aged 30
HCPO3 James R. Layton (January 29, 1987 - September 8, 2009), aged 22
You will always be remembered.
5 soldiers? As far as I know, only one soldier was killed in Ganjgal. Three marines and a sailor were also killed though, perhaps that's what you meant.
RIP Afghan soldiers, fuck those american bastards
even in crude 3D animation, they show the ANA at 17:10 est. shooting blindly and then it pans to the Marines accurately aiming at the enemy. made me chuckle, (since I got my DD-214).
Oh do u now buddy we are gonna have to see a copy of it
@@mrluffwaffapilotgorring492 stfu pussy
The footage is from VBS 2 specifically made by bohemia interactive (same people who made arma) for the US Army
I kept hearing.. “Request denied” ..from higher HQ’s. What a shame.
Those marines in the pickup truck were some badass dudes
One of them was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor for his actions.
@@jaywhite1383 Dakota Meyer
demonstrates the brotherhood between true warriors in active combat
@@TheMistaMunz Not often talked about but one of the Kiowa Pilots was a prior Marine Infantry. He flew table top gun missions over Meyers head to cover him during extractions. Brothers to the end... You never stop being a Marine.....
Read the book, Into the Fire, it'll tell a better picture
No excuse. CAS assets should have been on station, period. There should be no denial of support when troops in contacts and taking casualties. Especially if lessons learned in earlier campaigns show grave consequences of such lack of support. SW teams should be dedicated and part of mission planning of each patrol. Especially if the terrain is elevated and provides a well place of cover and concealment for the enemy. An hour and a half to 2 hours after i make the first call, is just too goddamn late.
I think because it was such a hodgepodge of random people. If it was the 101st or 82nd it’d be like oh hell no, we are gonna support our guys, we are NOT gonna have this debacle mar our reputation with a bunch of casualties, but instead it was like wait, someone needs help? Who exactly? Uhhh, never heard of them, sorry, we will get around to it if we have time but right now some actual units with a name and some pride are taking priority
I'm a ex Infantry Afghanistan veteran and I can't believe they denied the troops in contact!!! WTF that isn't right thats murder in my eyes
"The U.S. gov pays the family of Taliban fighters KIA by U S. Forces. Out of the 50-80mil they send them every month! Some of which is to fight ISIS."
Listen to this guy! Who is he explaining this to? Himself?
You are correct and the marine who survived is Medal of honor Recipient Dakota Meyers I was deployed to fob Monti during this operation and I personally say someone should have been thrown in jail after this happened
What happened here is the bureaucracy is created to efficiently manage the resources became so complexly bureaucratic with many dependencies and constraints that cost the guys in the fields their lives. In plain words, the critical assets are there but not allowed to be deployed or do anything effective. That only encouraged the enemies to be more aggressive knowing that their actions resulted in no quick or effective responses.
The guys and gals at the TOC and other command posts must be selected from soldiers in the fields. Not more bureaucratic process and paperwork training.
Listen to SGT Dakota Myers story about this. Book, INTO THE FIRE
Or the podcast that Dakota Meyer did with Jocko Willink. It was very detailed and informative. To hear Dakota describe it was very moving
That dude is a fraud.... thw Marines needed a glory boy. Watch him talk about it, then watch Cpt. William Swenson talk about it.
big T were you there?
@@bigt6227 okay.. but how , how is he fraud tho exactly
@@ACIDICcitric he was saying listen to a different person talk about this, he didn't say he was there. What a bunch of babies, you weren't there either so shat ap. Makes no sense for you baby girls to say that. Were you there!! Like damn you got him there 🤣
I STRONGLY encourage everyone to watch this podcast. ruclips.net/video/E6LbwCKJ0lo/видео.html
Dakota Meyers was one of the Marines who went back into the valley to find his team despite being ordered NOT to go in. This guy's story is really fucking heavy and goes into great detail of that day. This representation is half true at best and does not honor those who fell in battle. The ANAs and Marines weren't fighting farmers or goat herders. They were up against a large well organized foreign element and mostly pakistani taliban who were geared with plate carriers, helmets and well supplied for a heavy attack. Whoever was in the TOC could've faced a court martial for breaking fire mission protocol but would've saved so many lives, the fact that they didn't only proves that their own asses mattered more than the men dying in the AO.
There were some officers relieved after this incident but that’s not going to bring those guys back now the failure was how the entire Afghan War was being fought in 2009 with such limited assets. I was QRF to this fight attached to 20th SFG but by the time we got there the fight was over and the enemy had gone. 1/32 Inf. had too much going on at the time to support this operation really and there were so many failures in planning it is ultimately why it failed. You would have Wanat in 2008 and literally less than 30 days after this fight you had COP Keating almost get over run and all of these really were leadership failures at the top but let’s just award a bunch of medals to make everyone feel better and relieve a couple of people that really had no business being in the positions that they were in to start with and somehow that will make everything right, sad!
This was a clusterfuck from the start. One problem was leading from the rear and not listening to the personnel on the front. Denying indirect fire and air support caused the deaths, The Army unit should have went in anyway to support the Marines.
Listen too Jockos podcast with Dakota Meyer. That’s where you get the real info. The higher ups really blew this one.
I listened to that podcast and it made me cringe. Just to think that our high ups didn't listen to the ground force the ones who were fighting that they needed help is sickening. To me I can't grip that people will rather let soldiers died than getting court marshall. I would have gotten court marshalled bc I would have gave those guys air support no matter what. Here SGT. Meyer feels he let his team down by not being able to get to them in time, no our military let all those guys down. He did not leave his men behind, he went and risked his and other soldiers life to leave no man behind and I salute him and all the other soldiers that day. Read the book or listen to Jocko's podcast, it will move you. Warning it's heart wrenching
You could hear Jocko short circuiting over what he was hearing/reading. His professionalism kept him from voicing his true opinions. I will say I look forward to the day Jocko gets to meet that Battle Captain.
Don't they always
Why the hell was the 11B platoon not released to get into the fight? What ate up BN command staff was directing this? Troops in heavy contact. Get the QRF THERE ASAP. Jesus christ
I was with 1/32 in 2010 1bct 10th mountain
"When I'm being second-guessed by higher or somebody that's sitting in an air-conditioned [office] why [the] hell am I even out there in the first place?" Let's sit back and play Nintendo." Capt Swenson finally left the Army in 2011. now after he recives the MOH, the Army is kissing his ass, asking him back to active duty? this is typical Army FUBAR!
Very well done I take it this is the Battle that Marine Dakota Meyer was in?
yea
Yeah he was on the pkm on the pickup truck ...he's a gangster that's the truth
50 cal on a humvee
@@Nimrodbodeinejr it was a humvee. The interview you are probably thinking of does make it sound like he was driving a technical (pickup with pkm) but he was in a armored humvee turret though it doesnt take away from his heroism because one rpg or on bullet could have stopped him easily
That dudes account is a total crock of shit. Read up on Cpt. William Swenson.
The infamous Kunar province, never thought I'd miss that place. While there we couldn't wait to be back in the states. Now that we've been back for a while I wish I could go back. Life was so much easier, we had a routine down. Don't get me wrong it sucked and some days shit happened that made our assholes pucker but we had a purpose...
What was the purpose?
To keep them big. O spiders outside the bunks..
@@ThatTURK1 To survive, to thrive in hell with your battle buddies was the purpose. the political shit doesn't matter to the average grunt on the ground, at least not for long.
Geez, this submitting requests for Arty or Air Support up the line, thru several filters and levels and waiting for approval sounds like a huge cluster that doesn't hamper the Tal from taking the initiative.
Directly from a policy that General McCrystal put in place.
As bad as this was, The willingness to make and then release this video does inspire confidence that the US military although will always makes mistakes and covers officers asses atleast they then use it to educate future and current officers , NCOs, Enlisted.
the commands denial of assets bewilders me...in the aaaaarmyyyyyyy
The lessons from Vietnam were obviously dismissed, otherwise we never would have been there to begin with.
I would like to know who put these people in this command position in the first place.
Surely White Phosphorus fired at minimum safe distance from village or fighting troops would be better than nothing. If it is behind the troops at least they have a shorter distance to run before the smoke obscures them? Also why dont they have normal smoke? If you are concerned about to much firepower wouldn't you up the smoke ammo to compensate?
It makes me sick to see how many times they were denied support. We always seem like we send soldiers into battle with little man power and restrict air support. Smh as if we cant afford it $. We would save more lives if we reversed the situation and gave them overwhelming man power and actually complete these missions.
Mon3yMotivateD1 imagine asking for air support and being denied and basically hearing your death sentence
One devastating thing I learned from this video that blew my MF mind is the fact that they unknowingly gave the enemy an entire extra day to coordinate this ambush as it was meant for Sept 7 but was delayed to Sept 8... fucking tragic
I have a better idea. When you hear your men BEG for help....you send fucking help.
***** You are so absolutely right. It is not. Dude, I have been missing you and being able to talk to you daily. Google is doing something VERY strange with my Email account. They are allowing me to sign in and accepting my password, but it just freezes on the "gathering information" page. I am unable to obtain any of my mail. I believe I am going to start a new Email account with a different provider and I will be sending you an email very shortly. There is quite a bit I need to discuss with you and Gmail is simply taking up way too much of my time by keeping me out of my mail for literally hours before I am able to obtain my mail or even compose. SO....if you receive an email from an address you have never seen before, please do not delete thinking it is SPAM,,,It is probably just me!! Please give my love to your beautiful wife, Selma and I am hoping that since Spring and Summer is right around the corner that you and Selma and me and Blair will be able to get together soon and maybe spend a day at the range or hiking in Bankhead and a BBQ to top off the evening. Certain friendships are made by God for very particular reasons and I can't help but to believe or friendship has a higher purpose. I'm going to get on obtaining a new email address and I will be sending you an email very soon! HUGS!!! XOXOXOXO Manders
Undermanned HQ Co. + Care for Civilians + Reliance on Afhgan 'Militia' = Massacre.
Caring for Civilian lives, and placing reliance on pathetic excuses for a 'Police Force'. Cost us too much in this war on terror. Perhaps if used the Good ole ROE's and Doctrines, Afghan and Iraq would be a Slam dunk Victory.
I noticed how subtlety they called out the Command Post for their incompetence at the end by admitting how grossly unqualified they were for the job.
The amount of bureaucracy that the troops in contact had to jump through to simply get some artillery or air support was ridiculous. I guarantee that whoever wrote that ROE they used did not intend for them to interpret it as _“deny troops all requests for support in the face of the enemy.”_
This engagement shows that the Command did not trust their own troops on the ground to make a judgement call, despite being their only real eyes and ears on the scene. That lack of faith in them costed those men their lives. If you are back at the CP and don’t have a full grasp of the situation, you need to at least be able to believe that your own men on the ground fully understand the commander’s intent and can make a good decision on their own from what’s happening in front of them. This constant refusal to grant them the support they requested allowed the enemy to gain a major tactical advantage, which caused them to be overrun. This is the inherent problem when you centralize all decision making to the Command and not trust your frontline leaders being engaged to make their own judgment calls.
Correct brother
In the rear with the gear! Request denied.
Mortar indirect fire support was not considered but machine guns were? Is there a statistical bases that indirect fire support will hit civilians? Could this have formed the basis of the decision?
Was this done with VBS?
Its one big game of Arma!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Sure is man
I like how u show afghani soilders blind firing
Did they ise ARMA 2 for the re-enactment?
Is there a quota for the amount of dead people you need per air asset? Pathetic.
Just like Swenson said, he was the ground commander. Is the TOC there to support and oversee for asset allotment or act like they’re on the ground during. The TOC didn’t have field grades in their office anyhow. Complete the f’in paperwork correctly and provide the damn support.
Those marines got a raw deal...
thats a nice way to paint incompetence at the commanding level
An interesting sanitized review of a mission that illustrates how coalition forces (read the United States) failed to train the ANA (Afghan National Army) in sustained counter insurgency methods. The obvious dependency on aircraft to support troops in contact and lack of indirect fire organic to maneuver units is obvious even if there was an efficient commo plan and proficient battalion command staff with a vested interest in the success of their subordinate troops on the ground. You can see this over and over again where troops in contact call air support and in comes an expensive technological wonder that at times deploys ordinance and other times does low passes with useless flares as a show of force.
It doesn’t take a West Point Commandant to realize the Afghan’s will never learn to effectively be a stand alone counter insurgency force with that type of training. Sad but true we set the ANA up for failure by not teaching them to fight like the Taliban instead of rich Americans. The Taliban do not have air support. The Taliban are within the population or could move freely even in villages they were not tied into like Hazara and Tajik villages they passed through. If we only trained the ANA to use RPG and mortars for fire support. If only we insisted the ANA never wear uniforms and only wear their local garb. If only we formed community defense forces where they fought for their home villages instead of idealistic desegregated Tajik, Hazara, Pashtun etc… Army. If only we inspired the ANA to fight for a cause greater than money. If only we didn’t train them to fight like Americans a historically inept counter insurgency force with a disdain for living in the population we are trying to win and a reliance on conventional kill technology that cost more than most countries entire budget.
I say this through the eyes of advising 1st Kandak and ANP mentor teams. I did not disdain my deployments, I actually considered them the highlight of my 20 years. I have no bitterness just regret of the big green machine inability to think outside the box and go native. Of course this country isn’t prepared to pay that kind of cost in personnel on the ground and command staff promotions. “All Volunteers “ God bless those dirty boots on the ground!!
Why on earth would you hold a meeting with the elders of the village at daylight anyway. Should have waited to later in the day so more intelligence of the valley could be established.
Just left those 4 Marines and the few capable Afghan Soldiers our to dry. Wonder how the command echelon sleeps at night...
hey this was the battle where dakota meyer was
Operation Request Was Denied
U_yu]000
@eriktruchinskas3747 what does this mean sir?
Request. Denied. (They preferred the corrupted village, instead of the soldiers lives)
this mission was a monster of a cluster fuck of monumental proportions.
why would he wear that kind of ring on his left hand. weird
Great video! Are there any other like this realisted to the public?
How is smoke not available? 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Were they set up? How could such a colossal fuck up occur?
You had 7 different elements using only a single radio frequency
12 Elements.
Is this... Is this gameplay from arma?
Yes, I guess this is VBS3 which uses the same engine as ARMA 2
“This is not a detailed recreation”. Proceeds with detailed recreation
And here was a huge sign that was ignored when they showed up there were large number of civilians leaving the valley with all their valuables because they knew what was waiting for them.
Quite amazing the number of Monday morning quarterbacks on this thread.
Quite amazing that people believe the lie.
@@bigt6227 If you’re gonna run your big mouth keyboard Rambo, why don’t you let us know your unit, rank, and dates of service? STFU until you provide proof you’ve had rounds fly past your head other than playing Call of Duty.
Not granting air support is what went wrong. Send it when they need it, keep them close! Not 1h15m away then deny it
Why do you need approval for fire support? If your the the ranking officer on the ground under heavy attack you should be able to call in fire missions yourself.
is it bad i thought he was computer rendered at first?
Great breakdown!
Disgraceful non leadership costs these men their lives. They deserved much better. Always listen to those on the ground for what's needed.
They make it seem less chaotic if that's possible
06:15 At this point they should have realised it was going to be an ambush.
Not really, terrain is what it is. When the lights went out on the other hand...
This sums up how the Army is now. You didnt go through the proper channels so we will deny your request. Dont care if guys are dying. Cowards getting promoted is what's this is called.
Thats why soldiers died thst day. "cos all they got". was request denied.. Its like sending a person with a kinfe into a gun fight. They needed support and got jack s**t.. And when they did damage was already done life's was already lost that didnt need to be if support was given!!!.. When soldiers are begging for help and get nothing something is serious wrong!!!
For as much fun as Joyce was, I would only go back against my will
I hated Fob Joyce and Camp Joyce….HATED IT….COP Monti was it for me
Heard about this battle on the joe rogan podcast with Dakota Meyers. And also on jacko podcast with Dakota Meyers ep115
Me too, I now listen to jacko podcasts
What a horror story of ineptitude by Army leadership. Heard several Army Os were "reprimanded". Hell, they should have been brought up on charges of incompetence.
its funny how far from the truth this video is. making the commanders in charge seem less guilty then they really are. they denied a med evac because the downed soldiers were marines also that swt 2 took three requests before being approved they were told 15 minutes for support 3 times smh.
Da fuq are these videos all over my recommended list out of nowhere for? Fuck it, subscribed.
The whole thing was a clusterfuck when they were being over run and calling for artillery and mortar strikes the command was ineffective back at the talk
No one ever appreciates the hard work and reassurances the top brass go out of their way to instill into their soldiers when they put them in harm's way on sometimes a pointless or just suicidal mission..
"Listen up boys, you will most definitely be tested, and be on your game cause we know for a fact it's going to get dicey.. But we want to reassure you that we are taking safety very seriously.
You won't have to worry, myself and the other top officers will be miles away and not in any harm. We know you were worried about this from the start so we just wanted to put your minds at ease.. Also, umm right now we sorta have some bad pr going in the press, so a heads up that you won't be getting any reasonable requests for air support. I know that breaks down into some of you really getting the shit end of the stick, but if it helps in anyway these commands are being sent from Washington from a couple senators who just sent me a selfie of them at a very expensive & prestigious steak house.. so they are very safe too so no worries.. Alright good luck and we'll see some of you later"
Service lives over civilians any day! Silence is considered consent! If you didn't lose a brother you wouldn't understand!
I’ll tell ya what didn’t occur in that command post that should of been top priority & that’s getting Apaches on station to help these guys push the enemy back. Idk how many times they were leaving to go assist & were told turn around & a couple who were almost on station only to be told turn around. It was left to 2 guys to drive an unarmored pickup truck belonging to ANA with their rifles & a mounted mg to defend themselves. This battle of Ganjgal was a failure in leadership from the Officers who were nice & safe back at the TOC & CP just like The Battle of Wanat & The Battle of COP Keating were & the worst part is that the public only knows of these battles bc their were CMOH given out in each, there were a ton of Purple Hearts, and the main reason these are some of the most known battles is bc there’s a movie of 1, 1 was at the time the most Americans lost in a battle, & another(this 1) bc of sheer bravery shown by Myer. Like I said sadly there’s a bunch more battles just like these where the senior leadership failed their guys in the field by not providing the tools they needed & were told they would get if they ever needed them. We’re trained to fight with air power assets & when those are denied sadly this is what happens!
Spot on brother I was there and agree 100%
Those Marines deaths could've been prevented if it weren't for some stupid Army Staff Officers.
HERE HERE! Current second term Admin has instructed this.
I hope All officers in the TOC never led a single solider again.
Senior leader ON THE GROUND should make final air support decision not office poge in the rear with the gear
Can we expect sometime in future Kosovo land invasion actions presented in this format... Koshare and Pashtrik...
Its werry good work... Thanks
Read Dakota Meyer’s book “Into the Fire”. It’s a more accurate account.
Every meeting was/is followed by an attack.
There were some officers relieved after this incident but that’s not going to bring those guys back now, the failure was how the entire Afghan War was being fought in 2009 with such limited assets. I was QRF to this fight attached to 20th SFG but by the time we got there the fight was over and the enemy had gone. 1/32 Inf. had too much going on at the time to support this operation really and there were so many failures in planning it is ultimately why it failed. You would have Wanat in 2008 and literally less than 30 days after this fight you had COP Keating almost get over run and all of these really were leadership failures at the top but let’s just award a bunch of medals to make everyone feel better and relieve a couple of people that really had no business being in the positions that they were in to start with and somehow that will make everything right, sad!
Why is there absolutely no mention of the actions of Captain Swenson that day, for which he received the Medal of Honor?
There was tremendous personal incompetence and institutional stupidity at play, but at least one man stands out as a true hero. It is very telling that he is completely absent from this presentation.
Because he’s pissed too many of the high hats off and they actually tried to squash his MOH for the longest but politics got involved and settled it.
Imagine if they put that much effort into securing the southern border of America. Imagine that…
Imagine reading a book and not being a victim of propaganda.
I agree. Well said.
either way, its a recreation. Check the grammar.
Boy how I miss FOB Joyce...
lol joyce. i remember that place. it was really big in 2009
Denying support? Ive never heard of that even in Vietnam. Why were operations begun without out proper Command and their experience they provided.. why was not AIR requisitioned before the op? Some ticket punching SOB should have been flogged for these multiple errors. Yeah im quarterbacking this, but im right. Too bad i am, id rather have our people alive.
he sounds like Beavus
I hope all of the command did some brig time. They are directly responsible for the deaths of the 4 Marines.
They also didn't have to sign up, so it's not commands fault they died. They could have stayed home
MG brown! My Bn Commander 04 deployment
Sounds like troops are dead because help was denied.
ALWAYS listen to the JTAC ...
We failed these men 😔
its called arma 2 my friend.
Actions under fire stem from training. That starts in BCT. Quit making BCT weak and soft. Take that back to the ACLL. 11B3X. OIF.
Court martial the officers. People died due to them
Cpl. Dan, you're dismissed...but prior to leaving, give me twenty dead-hang Marine Corps pull ups without skip! Carry on. Semper Fi!
Wow..our military really let our guys down.
Walking next to mountains is never a gd idea
They missed a lot in this video...