@@blakebrockhaus347 completely agree. One of the reasons why Joseph Horn is because it has such great off-axis response where others are really lacking that..
@@paultravisano9403 I did not. I’ll have to make a follow up video sometime. I did post the results here. toidsdiyaudio.com/forums/discussion/dolby-atmos-anyone-how-about-high-efficeincy-rear-surrounds/
I was looking at the B&C driver JTR uses (x2 price) for a similar project but was super impressed with the results you got with the Celestion! Thank you
Wow nice job!! Great seeing a diy option for multi thousand dollar atmos soeakers!! 🎉 those compression driver speakers are no joke and there’s a reason 2 of the BEST atmos style speakers use this design! 🎉 well done! 🎉
Looks like I’ve found my next project! Thanks, my wife will be thrilled! I just finished building 7 of your Cinema 10 speakers and I think these would go great with those. The Cinema 10’s sound amazing by the way!
@@AKrumenacher love hearing that! This would be a perfect compliment! If you get a chance, send me over some pictures of those cinema 10’s. I really want to see that set up.
Nick - absolutely what I have been thinking about building lately. Except much less costly and smaller drivers. I'd like to build 4 tops, 2 sides and 2 rears for my 14'x14'x8' living room. THANK YOU!
@@Toid I started looking at the Dayton Audio CX120-8 coax 4" for $33ea, but now I'm thinking about Celestion TFX0515 5" Coaxial or the Lavoce CSF061.21 6.5" Coaxial Woofer. I wish I knew how to design the boxes. Hmmm, maybe open baffle for surrounds? I wonder?!
@@welderfixer another good option is the MP19CP-8. They do an accordion surround to help cut down on diffraction off the cone and it is supposed to be concentrically time aligned. Although I have not tested that.
@@Toid Dang! That is one good looking driver. Too bad it is way above my cheap beer budget. Bummer we don't live closer, I'd come over and help you with your table saw motor issue. That's the kind of work I do for what little living I make.
@@welderfixer I really do wish you lived closer lol. I love that table saw. I’m sure there’s a fairly simple fix for it, but I haven’t thought about it yet. I don’t really do a lot of angle cuts on it….until now 😂 it would also be fun to get together and build some speakers
Because it has angled suface, it can change direction of the sound it produces! I like that idea. Innitially, I thought, the cabinet size is too small for a woofer, but only 100Hz and above is required, it is a "compact" speaker for its size! Good job!
Great video Nick! Back to making some speakers, awesome. I love that you mention that a table saw would be faster than the CNC... :) Have you ever done an SPL test on your surround sound system? It's got to be louder than most actual movie theaters.
@@ChristopherLockett-bw7rv lol, I do have a brad nailer. I just don’t like filling in the holes. But you are right it is a lot easier to keep things lined up. Great tip!
It's great to have this video! Any idea how I can do the recess for the driver without a CNC? Just a router, maybe? Also wanted to point out that the ATMOS spec for speakers is the same as the IMAX spec, which is to say that all speakers are meant to be full range. I hardly ever hear anyone mention this. I think you'd get a lot of views if you designed a (compact but loud and full range) speaker that could be used for every position in, say, a 7.1.6 home theatre. I know I'd buy the plans to build them if they were available. Love your work. Keep it up!
Hey am i over looking the crossover parts and video? Ive been looking in the description but I completely seem to miss it. I am thinking of ordering 6 of these speakers and building them for my atmos. THANK YOU! I appreciate your videos and enjoy watching them. This will be my first DIY full build like this.
are they good? pretty neat, tho when looking at the paper cone, they look like they are form the 80s?? i had in my thoughts before opening the video is should be a 8 inch concentric woofer? like tannoy but from the 2020s
Hey Nick, I've owned Ascendo 10's and ended up replacing them with Perlisten R5m speakers which I quite like for their clarity and soundstage. I watch your videos on DIY options for Home Cinema and am stuck with inability to demo and get a sense of how yours compare. Your LCR speakers and the DIYSG speakers - what would you say that they sound like in retail speakers? Perhaps you can offer a direct comparison to the Perlisten monitors or towers?
Just note that it’s not just the size of the woofers that make a speaker but the material of which the speaker is built of and the components of the internals and frequencies
Great Video..!! How bout building some Full Martys going down below 20hz using Lavoce's..?? Am Sure Many Of Us Would Like You To Build Those..!! Maybe Go Dual 18's and 21's too..!! Would Love To See How You Build Those And Build Ourselves Some Too..!!
@@paultravisano9403 it’s around a 31 degree angle. The depth is somewhat confusing because it depends on the orientation but they are about 9 1/4” x 14” wide by 14 1/2 inches.
@@Toid Also is there any changes needed to crossover if 'normal' box is mounted flush in ceiling/wall? I was really waiting for this project to use them as in ceiling atmos (I have plenty of space above).
@@danemoreno88 similar. Some companies will have drivers made specifically for them. However, there is talk that one of the well-known speaker manufacturers actually use the driver in this build. I’m not going to mention who, but you’re welcome to do some research.
What box software did you use? I just got Term Pro which has the ability to export to CAD so could feed to CNC (I think). Great build btw, basically how I would consider doing ATMOS style speakers and/or side/ceiling mounted angled firing drivers. I am curious though they do have a high compression in it.. does it sound as good as if you had used a somewhat smaller woofer and separate tweeter/horn maybe? I am also hesitant about the crossover stuff being inside the cabinet where I would think the sound pressure/waves inside the box might "loosen" something. For that reason I'd put the crossover in a separate little box with openings in the back perhaps for some cooling/air flow (and no air leaks where it is mounted inside). I'd also say, it would be very cool to show how you mount these. They are big/heavy. No doubt a 2x4 stud to mount them on. But do you drill holes in to the box on the back side to mount them? Or build a shelf/bracket to hold them in place?
@@b3owu1f it looks like a nice program. I’m not familiar with it. Typically use winISD to figure out the size enclosure. After that, I did design it in sketch up. From there, I can send the files to my CNC program.
I worked in an industry that did concrete molded parts. Am I wrong in thinking that this would make a good speaker box with its near zero flexibility and resonance?
What comparisons would you make between this build and the atmos speaker build that you did maybe 3 years ago using a Eminence Beta-10CX and either a JBL or an eminence tweeter? That would be very interesting. Thank you.
@@OldfarseeingArt they are both really good designs, but overall this is better (IMO). In general, they are better drivers that are being used. Because of that It’s more linear and is lower distortion. Not to mention I really like this design better.
Nick , would it be ok to install the complete ring for the T-Nuts instead of cutting it and installing the 4 small pieces? I have all the materials ordered to start this weekend. I'm building 3 Cinema 10 and 2 atmos 10 to test them out in my TV room. Once my HT room is finished, I'd build 4 more Cinema 10 and 2 more atmos 10.
@@chesleebryan5099 I no longer have those so I can’t do a direct comparison. But in general, these would be better. it’s a much better driver that plays cleaner. You noticed that when I decided to build some for my theater, I did these instead of the Volt 10. They are still really great speakers, but I prefer these.
Do these drivers have a better off axis response than say the Volt10? I like the concept of the coxial for simplicity, but sometimes the off axis can be pretty rough, which is driving me more towards a traditional 2 way. Thanks
@@jasonhejny608 they actually have really good off-axis response. I should’ve touched on that more in the video. I do have some polar response graphs as well as off axis measurements I will publish. I’ll make sure to post a link to that under this comment.
@@jasonhejny608 here are the measurements. I’m not sure how well the volt 10 measure off axis but if you do, you can compare them. toidsdiyaudio.com/forums/discussion/dolby-atmos-anyone-how-about-high-efficeincy-rear-surrounds/
Thanks for posting those. If I remember right the off axis started dispersing about the same point, 10k, but the slope was awful. It was something like 10db down at 15 deg/20k and obviously worse the further off you got. Great build man thanks for the info.
Glue tip you asked for? Use PVA instead of PU since PVA bond is stronger than the cohesive strength of the MDF anyway. I see no benefit to using the PU and all of the downsides of an expanding glue. The only time I use it with speakers is if I'm putting in bracing and it is not as tightly in place as I want.
tbh i think i could build like 6 of em but i think two would be perfect for what i want and then i would need two desktop speakers cuz my old skool jamo graduates are failing
You are a much better builder than me BUT i would suggest wrapping the speaker wire in cloth tape to reduce the chance of rattle/vibration. Also, that T-nut method is not good. Are you able to make a ring on the inside of your baffle? What i have seen done is a ring is made the same diameter as the driver cut out on the inside diameter and O.D. is about 1" wide and then you cut the ring in half to slip it inside of the enclosure, then glue it in and maybe brad nail it.
@@robertmedina3195 thank you for the kind words and the helpful hints. I usually do wrap the speaker wire. In this case, it wasn’t necessary because of the acoustic fill. That keeps it in roughly the same place and prevents rattling. You could do the Tnuts with a ring if you want to. In fact, I’ve done that with a lot of builds. However, there are a few things that you need to think about. First will the ring fit? And in this particular case you could with modification. You would have to straighten off the top and bottom because of the angles of the cabinet. You also would want to make up for some of that volume if you could. This is a pretty small build where every time you add more into the cabinet, it will affect the volume. In this case, it probably wouldn’t be a dramatic difference. So it is possible to do, and you can do it that way if you’d like.
@@Toid I mentioned the ring because I can see the T nut failing the way it's installed here. Anyhow, that aside I really like the content. Any chance you will start offering flat packs for some of your projects like GSG does?
@@gufiaito69able I already did 😁 Dive Into Deep BASS: Build Dual 21 Inch Subwoofers Yourself! - Earthquake 21's ruclips.net/video/mM7F6dWM_dc/видео.html
JTR uses the BMS 4594nd for their Noesis line of speakers. Wouldn’t be surprised if they used all BMS drivers. Don’t know about Ascendo. But using B&C’s more high end drivers would be comparable for DIY designs. The DCX464 for example is B&C’s answer to BMS’ 4594nd.
You can buy the same driver jtr uses on parts express, iirc. It's a B&C 10FCX64. Normally, they are over $500, but they got them on sale now for $345.00. JTR's crossover is also more complex than Toid's. Nothing against what he's doing at all. I think it's great that he builds these speakers. It's just good to know that the JTR has a lot more money in parts cost.
@@ProudPapaKY Yeah, the crossovers Jeff builds look pretty next level. I don't think I have the skills to replicate that without using active DSP. Toid's design is much more approachable. So the B&C 10FCX64 is the exact same driver used in the Noesis 110HT and Noesis 110HT-SL? Thanks
@@ProudPapaKY I don't think it is. It visually looks different. And after modeling this in winISD, it doesn't seem to have nearly as much output as the JTR driver before hitting its excursion limits.
only problem with making cheaper versions of jtr speakers is all of the money in jtr speakers are spent an parts not finishes. Brands that spend all of their money on marketing and fancy finishes are much easier to beat with diy i would think.
You'd be surprised at how much margin these companies have on their products. 4-5x cost of parts isn't uncommon. Fancy finishes are not the easiest to DIY and are usually time-consuming. Some speakers that cost thousands cheap out on crossover components. Things most customers would never see and don't understand are easy places to cut costs and increase margins.
@bingdong8571 I don't have their parts list to do the math myself. Do you have those parts lists? I'm just looking at what was done here for $300. What drivers is JTR using? What are their crossover components? $1300 leaves some wiggle room for quality parts and still a 2x profit. But it sounds like you know their products better than I do. Are they using $600 drivers and $400 in really high-end crossover parts?
@@Ry-lx2kl b&c, they sell the driver on parts express. the crossover components are more difficult. Had to do some guessing but if u can get ur hands on one you woild be shocked at the size and weight of that thing. probably weighs more thaan this completed version.
@bingdong8571 B&C makes some of the best drivers in the world. Even so, the most expensive coaxial I found on Parts express from them is: B&C 10CXN64-8 10" Professional Neodymium Coaxial Speaker 80 x 80 Degree 8 Ohm @ $431.25. I don't know what crossover they use, but the B&C branded crossovers go for ~ $130 on parts express. So that puts us a $560+ the enclosure. There are costs of running a business orther than the parts themselves. These speakers focus on a narrow section of the audio speaker world. By necessity of volume of sales, they need to make a decent margin. If they charge 2x parts, I would agree with you that their margins are slim compared to the competition. That translates to a lot of value for the end user.
@@dbefore7165 in this particular case a small round over would make very little difference and would most likely be inaudible. But if you build them, you could definitely run them over if you wanted to.
@@patrickmartin4482 I am glad to hear it. Someone told me that the shipping was $70 and I was very concerned. I have no idea how he got selected. But I really appreciate you guys letting me know that it was a problem and that I could fix it so quickly.
@@MyFatherLoves these are anechoic measurements to 150hz toidsdiyaudio.com/forums/discussion/dolby-atmos-anyone-how-about-high-efficeincy-rear-surrounds/
@@MyFatherLoves I don’t mess around when I design a crossover 😁 Thanks for reminding me to put these in videos. I’ll make sure to do that on the next build.
@@Toid Yes, I would run a sub/subs with them. I was thinking of the sealed 21SW800 solution you demonstrated in a previous video. It's a stretch fabric sealing and I have about 50cm above it for speakers and subwoofers.
Use a baking paper instead of paper towel while clamping 4:10 . Wood glue doesn't stick to baking /parchment paper so less messy.
@@herbertdmello great tip! Thank you
I love these speaker design/build videos
Protect this man at all cost. 😂
That off axis response is MONEY dude! I wouldnt have expected that from a horn loaded hf driver like this
@@blakebrockhaus347 completely agree. One of the reasons why Joseph Horn is because it has such great off-axis response where others are really lacking that..
Did he show the off axis in the video?
@@paultravisano9403 I did not. I’ll have to make a follow up video sometime. I did post the results here. toidsdiyaudio.com/forums/discussion/dolby-atmos-anyone-how-about-high-efficeincy-rear-surrounds/
I was looking at the B&C driver JTR uses (x2 price) for a similar project but was super impressed with the results you got with the Celestion!
Thank you
Wow nice job!! Great seeing a diy option for multi thousand dollar atmos soeakers!! 🎉 those compression driver speakers are no joke and there’s a reason 2 of the BEST atmos style speakers use this design! 🎉 well done! 🎉
Looks like I’ve found my next project! Thanks, my wife will be thrilled! I just finished building 7 of your Cinema 10 speakers and I think these would go great with those. The Cinema 10’s sound amazing by the way!
@@AKrumenacher love hearing that! This would be a perfect compliment! If you get a chance, send me over some pictures of those cinema 10’s. I really want to see that set up.
Great Video - appreciate seeing the way you thought through the project!
Nick - absolutely what I have been thinking about building lately. Except much less costly and smaller drivers. I'd like to build 4 tops, 2 sides and 2 rears for my 14'x14'x8' living room. THANK YOU!
@@welderfixer that would be awesome!
@@Toid I started looking at the Dayton Audio CX120-8 coax 4" for $33ea, but now I'm thinking about Celestion TFX0515 5" Coaxial or the Lavoce CSF061.21 6.5" Coaxial Woofer. I wish I knew how to design the boxes. Hmmm, maybe open baffle for surrounds? I wonder?!
@@welderfixer another good option is the MP19CP-8. They do an accordion surround to help cut down on diffraction off the cone and it is supposed to be concentrically time aligned. Although I have not tested that.
@@Toid Dang! That is one good looking driver. Too bad it is way above my cheap beer budget.
Bummer we don't live closer, I'd come over and help you with your table saw motor issue. That's the kind of work I do for what little living I make.
@@welderfixer I really do wish you lived closer lol. I love that table saw. I’m sure there’s a fairly simple fix for it, but I haven’t thought about it yet. I don’t really do a lot of angle cuts on it….until now 😂 it would also be fun to get together and build some speakers
Because it has angled suface, it can change direction of the sound it produces! I like that idea. Innitially, I thought, the cabinet size is too small for a woofer, but only 100Hz and above is required, it is a "compact" speaker for its size! Good job!
Very cool! Awesome response from the drivers.
I love this channel!
Perfect timing for me. Just purchased a Atmos AVR and was wondering what kind of speakers I would need to take my home theater to the next level 👍
@@tomreidy1237 this really is perfect timing 😁. After you finish, make sure to send me some pictures. I’d love to see it.
Great video Nick! Back to making some speakers, awesome. I love that you mention that a table saw would be faster than the CNC... :) Have you ever done an SPL test on your surround sound system? It's got to be louder than most actual movie theaters.
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 I have not. I honestly wouldn’t want to be in the room with it all the way up.
Lovely content you are a saviour brother 😅😅😅😅❤❤❤❤
NICK!!!!! Get a brad nailer! It will keep things lined up and also work as a clamp during assembly! So much easier...
@@ChristopherLockett-bw7rv lol, I do have a brad nailer. I just don’t like filling in the holes. But you are right it is a lot easier to keep things lined up. Great tip!
You're my hero for doing this, thank you.
Love this! Great work as always!
It's great to have this video! Any idea how I can do the recess for the driver without a CNC? Just a router, maybe? Also wanted to point out that the ATMOS spec for speakers is the same as the IMAX spec, which is to say that all speakers are meant to be full range. I hardly ever hear anyone mention this. I think you'd get a lot of views if you designed a (compact but loud and full range) speaker that could be used for every position in, say, a 7.1.6 home theatre. I know I'd buy the plans to build them if they were available. Love your work. Keep it up!
@@lo_fye the plans site the center point, so you can just use a router and circle jig if you want.
Nice video and build.
Looks really really great! But it is a lot of work, especially for someone like me, who not even has a saw :D
just build two of those exact speakers into two floor standing main speakers with a subwoofer. that’s a perfect 2.1 system.
What speaker mount do you use to hang the speaker to the cealing?
Hey am i over looking the crossover parts and video? Ive been looking in the description but I completely seem to miss it. I am thinking of ordering 6 of these speakers and building them for my atmos. THANK YOU! I appreciate your videos and enjoy watching them. This will be my first DIY full build like this.
The crossover is laid out and explained in the build plans: toidsdiyaudio.com/product/presence-10-build-plans/
@@Toidahh well I shale buy your build plans and take a look. Thank ya sir.
are they good? pretty neat,
tho when looking at the paper cone, they look like they are form the 80s?? i had in my thoughts before opening the video is should be a 8 inch concentric woofer? like tannoy but from the 2020s
Hey Nick,
I've owned Ascendo 10's and ended up replacing them with Perlisten R5m speakers which I quite like for their clarity and soundstage.
I watch your videos on DIY options for Home Cinema and am stuck with inability to demo and get a sense of how yours compare.
Your LCR speakers and the DIYSG speakers - what would you say that they sound like in retail speakers? Perhaps you can offer a direct comparison to the Perlisten monitors or towers?
Can you make a 35" tower design with the same drivers, perfect for L/R and maybe even LCR for some.
Love this! Now I need some shop tools…can you call my wife and convince her it’s a necessity?
@@stefan3225 lol, you don’t need to convince someone when it is definitely a necessity 😁 and this easily falls into that category
Have you done a full CEA 2034 spinorama using rew and vituixcad to any speaker? I just finished my spinorama for my diy speakers
So how do these compair to the eminence vs you did awhile back?
I was bout to ask the same question. Hopefully we get a response.
Just note that it’s not just the size of the woofers that make a speaker but the material of which the speaker is built of and the components of the internals and frequencies
Great Video..!! How bout building some Full Martys going down below 20hz using Lavoce's..?? Am Sure Many Of Us Would Like You To Build Those..!! Maybe Go Dual 18's and 21's too..!! Would Love To See How You Build Those And Build Ourselves Some Too..!!
I bought one of these and it plays to fast 33/45 doesn’t work for the issue. So how do you adjust the speed?
A good Alternative is the sica 10c2cp. Same Chassis from the hertz 8.000$ speaker.amber midnight.👍🇩🇪
Looks great man! Could you privide the angle and depth of the cabinet? I want to see how these would fit into my room design
@@paultravisano9403 it’s around a 31 degree angle. The depth is somewhat confusing because it depends on the orientation but they are about 9 1/4” x 14” wide by 14 1/2 inches.
@Toid thank you! Now I want to make a LCR version and an in wall version in addition the these for atmos.
@@paultravisano9403 I should design a normal box so people can use these in other applications.
@@Toid I think that's a great idea.
@@Toid Also is there any changes needed to crossover if 'normal' box is mounted flush in ceiling/wall? I was really waiting for this project to use them as in ceiling atmos (I have plenty of space above).
I love this but how much would it be to make the exact speaker they do same drivers etc how about the crossovers ?
@@danemoreno88 similar. Some companies will have drivers made specifically for them. However, there is talk that one of the well-known speaker manufacturers actually use the driver in this build. I’m not going to mention who, but you’re welcome to do some research.
Any frequency response measurements?
I have a 13x17x8 living room. Do you think these would work well for an LCR? I have 15" sealed subs for everything before 80hz.
@@ProudPapaKY absolutely.
What box software did you use? I just got Term Pro which has the ability to export to CAD so could feed to CNC (I think). Great build btw, basically how I would consider doing ATMOS style speakers and/or side/ceiling mounted angled firing drivers. I am curious though they do have a high compression in it.. does it sound as good as if you had used a somewhat smaller woofer and separate tweeter/horn maybe? I am also hesitant about the crossover stuff being inside the cabinet where I would think the sound pressure/waves inside the box might "loosen" something. For that reason I'd put the crossover in a separate little box with openings in the back perhaps for some cooling/air flow (and no air leaks where it is mounted inside). I'd also say, it would be very cool to show how you mount these. They are big/heavy. No doubt a 2x4 stud to mount them on. But do you drill holes in to the box on the back side to mount them? Or build a shelf/bracket to hold them in place?
@@b3owu1f it looks like a nice program. I’m not familiar with it. Typically use winISD to figure out the size enclosure. After that, I did design it in sketch up. From there, I can send the files to my CNC program.
I worked in an industry that did concrete molded parts. Am I wrong in thinking that this would make a good speaker box with its near zero flexibility and resonance?
@@jonmac155 it would be a great material to make speakers with
@@Toid Thanks for the response. Been thinking about this for years but wanted to confirm.
What comparisons would you make between this build and the atmos speaker build that you did maybe 3 years ago using a Eminence Beta-10CX and either a JBL or an eminence tweeter? That would be very interesting.
Thank you.
@@OldfarseeingArt they are both really good designs, but overall this is better (IMO). In general, they are better drivers that are being used. Because of that It’s more linear and is lower distortion. Not to mention I really like this design better.
Nick , would it be ok to install the complete ring for the T-Nuts instead of cutting it and installing the 4 small pieces? I have all the materials ordered to start this weekend. I'm building 3 Cinema 10 and 2 atmos 10 to test them out in my TV room. Once my HT room is finished, I'd build 4 more Cinema 10 and 2 more atmos 10.
@@AlvjaDahat yes you can do that. Just be careful of the angle at top. That the ring doesn’t get in the way.
@@Toid oh ,ok. I could probably cut a flat on top if needed Thanks,man.
@@Toid How do these compare to the previous ones you made in comparison to the Volt 10?
@@chesleebryan5099 I no longer have those so I can’t do a direct comparison. But in general, these would be better. it’s a much better driver that plays cleaner. You noticed that when I decided to build some for my theater, I did these instead of the Volt 10. They are still really great speakers, but I prefer these.
Do these drivers have a better off axis response than say the Volt10? I like the concept of the coxial for simplicity, but sometimes the off axis can be pretty rough, which is driving me more towards a traditional 2 way. Thanks
@@jasonhejny608 they actually have really good off-axis response. I should’ve touched on that more in the video. I do have some polar response graphs as well as off axis measurements I will publish. I’ll make sure to post a link to that under this comment.
@@jasonhejny608 here are the measurements. I’m not sure how well the volt 10 measure off axis but if you do, you can compare them. toidsdiyaudio.com/forums/discussion/dolby-atmos-anyone-how-about-high-efficeincy-rear-surrounds/
Thanks for posting those. If I remember right the off axis started dispersing about the same point, 10k, but the slope was awful. It was something like 10db down at 15 deg/20k and obviously worse the further off you got. Great build man thanks for the info.
what are you currently using for your LCR ?
@@phillipmorris9847 I am using the BTS15. But I’m working on some new speakers.
Glue tip you asked for? Use PVA instead of PU since PVA bond is stronger than the cohesive strength of the MDF anyway. I see no benefit to using the PU and all of the downsides of an expanding glue. The only time I use it with speakers is if I'm putting in bracing and it is not as tightly in place as I want.
i would LOVE to have something like this on the roof together with two main monitors for my pc setup but i already know that thats overkill XD
Haha! That’s what this hobby is all about! You can do it!
@@Toid to be fair it would help with the space problem im having atm XD i should see if i have enought wood for it dunno if the thickness is right tho
tbh i think i could build like 6 of em but i think two would be perfect for what i want and then i would need two desktop speakers cuz my old skool jamo graduates are failing
You are a much better builder than me BUT i would suggest wrapping the speaker wire in cloth tape to reduce the chance of rattle/vibration. Also, that T-nut method is not good. Are you able to make a ring on the inside of your baffle? What i have seen done is a ring is made the same diameter as the driver cut out on the inside diameter and O.D. is about 1" wide and then you cut the ring in half to slip it inside of the enclosure, then glue it in and maybe brad nail it.
@@robertmedina3195 thank you for the kind words and the helpful hints. I usually do wrap the speaker wire. In this case, it wasn’t necessary because of the acoustic fill. That keeps it in roughly the same place and prevents rattling. You could do the Tnuts with a ring if you want to. In fact, I’ve done that with a lot of builds. However, there are a few things that you need to think about. First will the ring fit? And in this particular case you could with modification. You would have to straighten off the top and bottom because of the angles of the cabinet. You also would want to make up for some of that volume if you could. This is a pretty small build where every time you add more into the cabinet, it will affect the volume. In this case, it probably wouldn’t be a dramatic difference. So it is possible to do, and you can do it that way if you’d like.
@@Toid I mentioned the ring because I can see the T nut failing the way it's installed here.
Anyhow, that aside I really like the content. Any chance you will start offering flat packs for some of your projects like GSG does?
@@robertmedina3195 I was thinking about that today. Would that be something you think you’d be interested in or others?
@@Toid definitely. These offerings would pair perfectly with your videos.
@@robertmedina3195 thank you
Please make a 21 inch sealed subwoofer for home theater
@@gufiaito69able I already did 😁
Dive Into Deep BASS: Build Dual 21 Inch Subwoofers Yourself! - Earthquake 21's
ruclips.net/video/mM7F6dWM_dc/видео.html
But does are ported yes?
@@gufiaito69ablethose are sealed
Do you happen to know which PA drivers JTR or Ascendo use in their speakers?
JTR uses the BMS 4594nd for their Noesis line of speakers. Wouldn’t be surprised if they used all BMS drivers.
Don’t know about Ascendo. But using B&C’s more high end drivers would be comparable for DIY designs. The DCX464 for example is B&C’s answer to BMS’ 4594nd.
You can buy the same driver jtr uses on parts express, iirc. It's a B&C 10FCX64. Normally, they are over $500, but they got them on sale now for $345.00. JTR's crossover is also more complex than Toid's. Nothing against what he's doing at all. I think it's great that he builds these speakers. It's just good to know that the JTR has a lot more money in parts cost.
@@ProudPapaKY Yeah, the crossovers Jeff builds look pretty next level. I don't think I have the skills to replicate that without using active DSP. Toid's design is much more approachable. So the B&C 10FCX64 is the exact same driver used in the Noesis 110HT and Noesis 110HT-SL? Thanks
@@sk9592 it might be. It's been a minute since I checked.
@@ProudPapaKY I don't think it is. It visually looks different. And after modeling this in winISD, it doesn't seem to have nearly as much output as the JTR driver before hitting its excursion limits.
I need some speakers boxes for my studio, I love for him to make some for me?
Nice pro floor monitors 😂😮
@@Vietturtle2023 Ha. Technically the same driver, but the crossover is vastly different. 😁
@Toid the Celestion driver is easy on ears at loud volumes, very warm, sweet sounding sprakers very english
@@Vietturtle2023 yeah. I am a real big fan of Celestion
Need another clamp !!!! 😂
Clamp pron😊
only problem with making cheaper versions of jtr speakers is all of the money in jtr speakers are spent an parts not finishes. Brands that spend all of their money on marketing and fancy finishes are much easier to beat with diy i would think.
You'd be surprised at how much margin these companies have on their products. 4-5x cost of parts isn't uncommon. Fancy finishes are not the easiest to DIY and are usually time-consuming. Some speakers that cost thousands cheap out on crossover components. Things most customers would never see and don't understand are easy places to cut costs and increase margins.
@@Ry-lx2kl I've done cost counts on jtrs products and unfortunately they do not have a big profit margin. Do the math urself and see
@bingdong8571 I don't have their parts list to do the math myself. Do you have those parts lists? I'm just looking at what was done here for $300. What drivers is JTR using? What are their crossover components? $1300 leaves some wiggle room for quality parts and still a 2x profit. But it sounds like you know their products better than I do. Are they using $600 drivers and $400 in really high-end crossover parts?
@@Ry-lx2kl b&c, they sell the driver on parts express. the crossover components are more difficult. Had to do some guessing but if u can get ur hands on one you woild be shocked at the size and weight of that thing. probably weighs more thaan this completed version.
@bingdong8571 B&C makes some of the best drivers in the world. Even so, the most expensive coaxial I found on Parts express from them is:
B&C 10CXN64-8 10" Professional Neodymium Coaxial Speaker 80 x 80 Degree 8 Ohm @ $431.25. I don't know what crossover they use, but the B&C branded crossovers go for ~ $130 on parts express. So that puts us a $560+ the enclosure. There are costs of running a business orther than the parts themselves. These speakers focus on a narrow section of the audio speaker world. By necessity of volume of sales, they need to make a decent margin. If they charge 2x parts, I would agree with you that their margins are slim compared to the competition. That translates to a lot of value for the end user.
Would not curving the front baffle edges help the sound?
@@dbefore7165 in this particular case a small round over would make very little difference and would most likely be inaudible. But if you build them, you could definitely run them over if you wanted to.
only time c&c machine is mandatory is if you are making diy youtube videos. LOL
70$ shipping for plans is not nice ... That is the most expensive PDF ever mailed.
@@patrickmartin4482 is it still showing that? I know it was an issue, but I thought I resolved that. Let me know if that’s still going on.
@@Toid you are right ... Solved .. order from friend placed or soon :-)
@@patrickmartin4482 I am glad to hear it. Someone told me that the shipping was $70 and I was very concerned. I have no idea how he got selected. But I really appreciate you guys letting me know that it was a problem and that I could fix it so quickly.
Music is too loud in your video like your video but some of the music is too loud
Ehhh… no directivity or distortion measurements and different SPLs? This is what sets apart the $600 and $3000 speakers.
@@MyFatherLoves I have some off axis measurements I will post later today
@@Toid rock on.
@@MyFatherLoves these are anechoic measurements to 150hz toidsdiyaudio.com/forums/discussion/dolby-atmos-anyone-how-about-high-efficeincy-rear-surrounds/
@@Toid holy moly…. It basically goes omni at 8k? That’s pretty awesome.
@@MyFatherLoves I don’t mess around when I design a crossover 😁 Thanks for reminding me to put these in videos. I’ll make sure to do that on the next build.
Thank you for a great video. How would these work as in ceiling for music only?
@@gislisverrisson2224 they aren’t really designed for that. I would want something with more bass. These really need a subwoofer used with them.
@@Toid Yes, I would run a sub/subs with them. I was thinking of the sealed 21SW800 solution you demonstrated in a previous video. It's a stretch fabric sealing and I have about 50cm above it for speakers and subwoofers.