Thanks for taking the time to make the vid, very enjoyable. I noticed the torque wrench angle as well but it was still very informative. I'll be brewing up a homemade batch of lube myself thanks to you.
Love the test, great work! One thing I've done is cut up a few pieces of sponge and threw it into my Ziploc bag. I use a 12:1 ratio, have never had a stuck case. After a few times through the bag the sponges are becoming saturated with the lanolin and now I'm down to 1 simple spray prior to sizing. I also only do 20-40 cases at a time. Its kind of like reduce, reuse, recycle. Thanks again for the great video.
Normally, in order to validate your data, you should look at the standard deviation and %RSD for your data. This allows you to look at how your measurements effected your final results. Normally data %RSD should come in under 2%. Your home made %RSD (40.1%, 26.8%, and 10.0% respectively) where the Hornady %RSD (18.9%, 17.1%, and 12.6%). Therefore, the Hornady product is more consistent than the home made lube. Also, Hornady uses hexanes as the solvent, which has 3 times the vapor pressure of 2-propanol. This would mean the Oneshot evaporates 3 times faster than that of the home made product. This may be why your home made version worked better after the alcohol was allowed to evaporate, where as the Oneshot gases off very quickly. You may just want to try a little lanolin on your finger and lubing the case to see if the alcohol was the issue or not.
I switched to this concoction last fall (from the old RCBS case lube pad) and have really had great results with all of my loads right on up to .300 mag. So much quicker and easier. I still do my due diligence and wipe down every case afterwards with a damp alcohol rag (I guess i'm picky when it comes to that kind of stuff), but all-in-all, i'm quite happy with the results.
I've been using a mixture of 6 parts of 91% Isopropal Alcohol and 1 part of Lanolin. A few quick sprays of this mixture, and I'm good to go for approx. 200 .223 casings. I've never had a stuck case. When I started this, I ran the same lubed case into a re-sizer 12 times with no drag and no adverse effect. this is all I use for bottle beck and long cases.
As per the Hornady instructions, you are supposed to let the One Shot dry COMPLETELY out in the open, not leave it in the bag. Lucky you didn't wind up with a stuck case with .223, ask how I know :(. The proper way to measure the force is to hook up the torque wrench in line with the press handle. Your way leaves a lot of variable depending on how you press down on the torque wrench. I agree the LL/Dillon clone lube is much safer to use to avoid stuck cases but I also agree with the other poster that the lube leaves a sticky residue that must be cleaned off with either a solvent soaked rag or tumbling. I just use STP oil treatment, Bag Balm or Vaseline. Just a tiny bit is enough. Thanks for taking the time to make this video.
rsrocket1 Thanks for watching. Hornady uses hexane as a propellant which has an extremely high evaporation rate, boils at 120F. They say to wait about a minute on the can. I opened the bag and they probably sat there for 10-15 min, so they were dry by the time I ran them. I probably could have showed that part better. Ill explain the torque wrench angle to Dima Prok if you care to see why I did it that way.
i use both lubes, although the lanolin mix i have is store bought (cabela's house brand) like you noted, giving it some time to offgas the alcohol helps a lot - you want the exterior of the bullets to be almost tacky feeling. but i find its easy to over lube brass with the lanolin - resulting in hydraulic dimples on the shoulders due to build up in the dies, where as with the one shot, i've not had that issue. personally i like the one-shot for resizing brass and the lanolin for resizing bullets. with resizing the .310's three's no shoulder in the die to get any buildup, so the worst i've found that happens when you over-lube the bullets is extra lube getting all over your hands during the process. once you get some extra lube inside the die they get significantly easier to push through (based on my highly calibrated elbow anyway) i find its very easy to under lube for bullet resizing with the one-shot, and make the press passes very difficult. and it gave me a good excuse to do something with the bottle of lanolin lube that's been sitting on my bench for a couple of years now.
+plantone1 Hey plant, thanks for commenting. The more I use the lanolin the more I realize how little you actually need. I find myself using less all the time, it seems to linger in the dies pretty well, kinda seasons them.
Old video, and at the time I was looking for a task that would need good lubrication to show the difference if any. The side note to this was a video I made around the same time about using cheep bulk 7.62x39 bullets in .310" for the 300 blackout by resizing them down. That video is probably still on my rumble channel under TreeTopFlier. RUclips has made me remove some content here. Sizing them down was to add another resource for 300blk shooters when we were struggling to find light weight bullets in 308. I have a 4 part series on that same Rumble channel for new reloaders to help get started if your interested. rumble.com/user/TreeTopFlier
Alcohol is always going to be 95% maximum the instant you expose it to air - unless you combine it with something else BEFORE the air is present. In such a case, the liquid (alcohol in this case), is referred to as anhydrous because there aren't any water molecules present. Just an FYI tidbit.
does this fowl powder and primers? or is it a use and your good? or do you have to tumble after? have been thinking about this lately have had a few people say yes and a few people say no. Great video as always I am late to the party with the question but I have always found your videos great and useful! keep it up!
Great video, the only thing I would recommend is to spray the liquid lanolin/isopropyl alcohol as you the one shot cases. As this allows the isopropyl alcohol to evaporate and not cause cases to work so hard.
I have been using my home brew for over 3 years now wich is 1oz part mineral oil to 12oz 1 bottle of heat...i love it i have never stuck a case since using this. MO works the same as lanolin but much cheaper and easier to find...LOVE IT
Shouldn't the effort arm be more linear to the force applied rather than at a 90 degree angle? Would it not be a more accurate measurement? Just wondering...
If you apply the torque wrench in line with the handle you would have so much leverage that the recorded number would be small and hard to show a difference. By attaching at 90 deg, it reduces the lever and gives you a higher torque reading for the same task. My hope was that this would amplify the readings to show any difference. It wasn't a perfect test, and the torque adapter I made started bending, so that didn't help. Hope that makes sense. If you want to know more about torque wrench formula www.mountztorque.com/service-support/calculations-for-torque-wrench-extension-adapters-and-spanners
So you tried to directly substitute the reloading press handle with the torque wrench using an adapter? I'm behind what you're doing and can't get "Mythbusters" science out of my head...
That's pretty much it. I originally tried to do it by attaching the wrench to the handle bolt but it would have twisted it of on the first cycle...way too much torque for that bolt dia. Anyway, I'm just a guy in my garage fooling around with an idea. For me the test was adequate to satisfy my question of whether or not lanolin is a legitimate reloading lube, and my takeaway was yes, it is. Thanks for watching, I hope you got something out of it even if the test was a little flawed.
Should let the alcohol dry off before resizing or stuck cases will be next, yes I have been there, do not leave in a bag just pour them in a tray to dry off.
Really interesting to see this put to an actual scientific test as opposed to RUclips's standard "Ah yeah trust me it's great". One less test I need to perform.
I've used homemade lanolin mix, but have switched to one shot as it won't contaminate primers powder so removes an extra cleaning stage to get the lanolin off the cases (maybe I didn't need to though?).
This was very interesting and entertaining. I like the effort. The only way to get good is to try things and make mistakes and learn from them. I like your approach. I thought you did great. I even saw you field negitive comments like a pro. Thanks for sharing.
You didnt use the Hornady one shot the way it tells you to. However, I do appreciate the video and the effort. Im going to try it based on price alone. One shot is great though as far as lube goes
It didn't turn out very well and looks awkward for sure. I attached at 90 deg because that's how you keep the torque accurate when you are using a lever or in other words, attaching at 90 deg negates the leverage advantage so the indicator is accurate. Otherwise you have to use math. Thanks for watching anyway.
I am new to this reloading world. Do I have to pre-lube 9mm brass and round nose bullets? I am using the Hornady LnL press with Hornady dies. I have seen no vids on hand gun pre-lube only rifle
A lot of your straight wall case dies have a carbide ring or, in Hornadys case Titanium nitride... they do not require lube. Personally I still spray a very light sprits of lube on them anyway...really makes them go through the sizer like hot butter. All lube applications are prior to sizing. Dont lube the bullets.
You skewed the numbers by putting the torque wrench on at different angles between the Hornady and lanolin tests. Having the torque wrench at less than 90* like you did with most of the Hornady tests will show a higher number so it's likely that the Hornady would win if the test were done right. The Hornady also has to dry to work its best so being that they were in a bag and done first the lube may have not been ready. My brother has tried Dillon lube (lanolin based) against Hornady and the Hornady cut the work almost in half. This was on military .50 BMG cases which are a bear to resize and really show the difference.
+DonziGT230 The test had some imperfections and yes the angle of the torque wrench matters. I did 10 of each and had to adjust the torque wrench forward as the adapter I made started yielding to the torque I eventually had to adjust forward one point on a 12 point socket as I went along. This affected both formulas because I did all the forming then re-sizing etc. I just showed snips of the process so you don't see all 60 cycles if I had it would have been too long and unwatchable It was also difficult to accurately record the where the highest torque was since I had to rely on a visual reference. All in all, I tried to be fair and if I had a bias, it was suspicion of the lanolin application (internet folk lore) not the one shot. As for the evaporation in the bag... They probably sat for 10 to 15 min while I did set up and did other stuff. Hornady uses hexane as a propellant which has an extremely high evaporation rate, boils at 120F. They say to wait about a minute on the can. Anyway, sorry I didnt meet your expectations but thanks for watching.
It's parts per so you can determine what the measurement you use. Probably ounce would be easiest. So 10 ounce alcohol to one ounce of lanolin. I guess if you were measuring in inches on a bottle, 5 inches alcohol, 1/2 inch lanolin. Hope this helps...
@@TreeTopFlier thank you very much Tree Top Flier. Its seems to be pretty simple. However which way would be better to go with on lanolin; the heavy side, or the lighter side. Just wondering. You know how Murphys Law works
great video thank you, I picked up a 4 pack of heet from wallie for 7.98 shipped to store and the same sheep oil off amazon for 8 dollars free shipping. looks like I have enough to last a long time. how much do you mix yours? 1oz to 8oz?
Interesting, never heard of it. The lubes we use are formulated to not deteriorate gun powder. Lanolin is a wax from sheeps wool that provides lubrication and is still safe for powder. I think generally, petroleum-based lubes are considered bad. I looked up Inox and couldnt tell. interesting though Inox does make a Lanolin based lube called Lanox that might be interesting as well. Thanks for the comment.
The numbers don't make any sense because the measuring method is flawed. Forming 300 blackout cases takes a lot less effort regardless of the lube used and can be seen in the first column for homemade and yet in the end the average reverses but for Hornady it's in line, that just shows how flawed this data is. You were supposed to attach torque ranch to the part where rod attaches, not to the end of handle where the ball goes.
Dima Prok Hi Dima, thanks for commenting. I probably should have explained my reasoning in the video...they get too long fast. I attached the torque wrench 90 degrees to the handle to negate the lever provided by the handle. By doing it that way it shows the torque at the base of the handle which is greater than it would be at the ball where your hand goes. Doing it this way should amplify any differences between the two. I initially tried to use the handle bolt to get the torque at the base like you said but it would have been way too much torque for that bolt. Anyway, It didn't go exactly like I planned but I did try to be as consistent as I could and use the same method for all. The hard part was following the arc without putting downward pressure on the handle as rsrocket1 pointed out.
TreeTopFlier Yes, it's difficult to find a way to attach the torque wrench to the base, the best thing would be to find 3/4" square metal bar that would step down to 1/2" and use a coupler but that would be true way to measure torque as intended. I just tried making similar lube by using some sort of lanolin that I got maybe 10 years ago to use it instead of shaving cream (never tried) that has consistency and look of ear wax :-) I used hot water and it melted alright and I added iso heet but once it cooled down it just clumped and turned to waxy consistency and spray bottle wouldn't work, however I spread some on my fingers and used that to lube cases and I could form cases using one finger, (I am not kidding) I got same press as you do. I did about 70 and threw them in to tumbler to wash the lube off. The best homemade lube I made was using iso heet and RCBS lube which is I believe is also made from lanolin, it works great. BTW, I just realized it was your other video on resizing .310 bullets that helped me with reloading my 300 BLK, the accuracy is good too! Thank you for that video!
Dima Prok Some guys use the lanolin right out of the bottle for sizing and it works fine. I still like the Imperial sizing wax best. The lanolin is a great option. I've been using it on pistol cases lately. Even with carbide dies, just a very light spray the cases re-size like cutting hot butter. Glad the other was helpful to you, that's awesome! I think you were also looking at the making brass video, did that work for you too?
If you want to be very technical the Number tested in each category (N) is far to low to derive statistical significance. N should be at least 100 to get a reproducibility (p) of 95% (p=0.05). However, it doesn't really matter as this is an excellent example of "close enough for government work". It is enough to convince me to get the item and try it for myself. Thanks for an interesting video, TTF.
Wonder why you having problem using the Top Shot sprayed in the bag like that. take your cases laiy them in a pana with some paper towels on the bottom spray cartridges then roll around on the paper towels rolling and shaking the pan rolling the empty cases are covered I never have an issue easy peasy
I guess if you're comparing torque they may negate each other. Never really thought of it like that. I have no problem with homemade sauce with ease of sizing. For me it's about cost. I tend to process thousands of pieces at a time and the One Shot would break the bank.
I know this is an old video ... but you're doing it wrong brother. Just the spraying/coating part. I am sure that by now you've quit using baggies and gone to Tupperware type containers with lids to mix and coat ... and no need to use so much. But I do agree, the homemade lanolin mix works great ... it's all I use. 4 oz of liquid lanolin mixed with a half gallon of 99% isopropyl alcohol makes for a lot of lube that will last most of us a lifetime. I keep some in a sprayer and the rest in a half gallon Mason jar tucked away in my reloading room and refill the sprayer when necessary ... meaning only once in five years (and I reload A LOT). Not sure I agree with your testing methods given buildup plays a role, especially when you lube heavy ... but cudos to you for the effort. Thumbs up liked and I am happy to be a subscriber.
I've been using both lanolin/alcohol and One Shot for years. I've read so many posts on the various gun forums about guys getting cases stuck with One Shot, but in literally thousands of rounds of ammo loaded, I've never stuck a single case. This is even sizing range pickup brass. I like them both, but I do like the fact that One Shot will not damage powder or primers. An older video, but a great one.
Good video. I use both case lubes myself. My only issue with the lanolin is it seams like it leaves a film on the case that gets sticky. So I usually tumble the cases following sizing if I go that route. If I use the One Shot I normally don't. It could be that I get a bit too much lube on the cases. Interested in your thoughts about that.
blueeyephil Depending on the case, you really don't need very much. In the video I used more than is required just so I could ensure everything was coated. I would leave the lube on till after the round is loaded and wipe them down afterwards. Some guys even throw them (loaded) back in the tumbler for a few just to get the lube off. It is a good Idea to get the lube off before firing. The case expands during ignition and locks itself against the chamber, when the bullet exits the pressure drops and the round releases from the chamber. If the case has lube on it the case may not get a good grip on the chamber. Thanks for watching and commenting.
+lky056 Some like to use it strait with a little on your fingers like you use Imperial sizing wax too. I used 1:8 because that was the most common recipe people recommended. Variations could definitely be experimented with. Thanks for watching!
+lky056 I started at 6:1 but now dilute it more. I want the lightest uniform even coating possible. Also my application container carries dried lanolin to new applications. I am probably going closer to 10:1 now and still getting very smooth results with a minimum of residue.
you want a very thin film. It takes very little to get the lubricity. Thicker lube doesn't necessarily mean more slippery. The individual lube has it's limits. Too much lube can hydraulically deform the brass too. For something like .50 which has a lot of friction, I don't think you need a thicker lube, but you might need a slicker lube.
I wouldn't spray cases with any lube with primers installed. As for after the cases have been lubed, lubrication should be used lightly and once the alcohol has evaporated shouldn't migrate to primers...as for powder, it's my understanding that some commercial lubes have been using lanolin for years. I think the real danger is anything that contains petroleum.
To get accurate readings you must use the torque wrench with it's length parallel the the press handle. Furthermore, you're not consistent with your placement or orientation of the torque wrench. I'm sure lanolin is great, but your methods are not.
love the video, thankz for posting it,.... notice how the force gradually goes down with the lanolin and conversely up higher as the test goes on with the one shot ... ;-) ...yup, you gotta let the alcohol evap :-)
+TreeTopFlier In my subjective -feel based- experience the same was true for the One Shot. Evaporation smooths it out and makes it more consistent. If it is wet, I think it gets squeegied off of the case as it is sized and therefore provides less lubrication than it does as a bonded waxy film. I think it leaves a nicer finish feel than lanolin on the loaded ammo since it isn't tacky. There is a reason I had one of the first videos advocating lanolin: Cost and consistency. I like to dilute the lanolin more than 6:1 now, and since I use a jug with sponge pieces to help distribute it rather than a bag, it is easier to evaporate with the lid off. Old residue helps lube future cases in the jug. Same method works for One shot. A note. Lee lube dissolved in water works this way too(I haven't tried alcohol, but that has potential), but Lee lube is much more finicky about how dry it is. If it isn't fully dry, expect stuck cases.
+GunFun ZS Thanks for sharing and taking the time to comment. I pretty much use Imperial sizing wax for forming brass and swaging bullets. And I use the lanolin mix for resizing and that works good for me. I am super undisciplined with my application I pretty much spray the pile Im getting ready to load, stir them with my hand then spray them again... wait a little and start loading. After just a little bit there is enough residual on my fingers and in the die that they all run through smooth. Im still happy with the 8:1 ratio.
+TreeTopFlier i just learned fairly recently that people should not apply lube to the shoulder of the cases..... apparently just lube the body and the inside mouth of the empty case or else you risk dents forming from hydraulic pressure. have a great day my good friend ;-)
+inspectyerbooty Good point, I should have mentioned it in the video. I haven't had a problem with necks that are slight like the blackout and even the .223. But it is definitely an issue on cases that have a large shoulder surface area. When I see a dent form I know I've gotten sloppy with the lube. The thin lubes like this one don't do it as bad so spray on is still an option. If you start getting hydraulic denting you can just wipe the neck area before sizing. I mostly see this if I'm using too much sizing wax. I have a mosin that has a loose chamber so full length sizing fired cases takes a lot of lube...at some point the pressure migrates the lube onto the shoulder area and I get a dent. FYI the dents don't hurt much and they will blow out on the next firing. Happy reloading!
an you test test homemade lanolin case lube VS RCBS case lube, ( the stuff that comes in the plastic bottle) I use the rcbs pad and the rcbs liquid for resizing 7mm mad and it seems to work ok. but if homemade lanolin case lube is better then I will try
Not planing any other tests on lubes. This test wasnt really to find out which one was best but more to prove that a home brew lanolin lube works at least as well. I like the RCBS stuff too. Its water based, cleans off easy. I go back and forth to be honest. I use the lanolin mix mostly on pistol cases just so the go through the sizer easier, even with carbide dies.
FYI ... it can't be 'All Alcohol'. Anything above 99% alcohol must be created in a vacuum, and it immediately begins drawing moisture from the air when removed from the vacuum and exposed to the outside atmosphere. Just thought I'd throw out that little 'geek' fact for you.
Howdy Tree TopFlier…Sizing with the Lee sizer just got fast…please watch this short clip we put on You Tube in order for Lee to look at it and possibly modify their sizing approach. ruclips.net/video/4iHUDbC9hQk/видео.html If you agree please contact my pard, Thom Finks as it is on his channel…I don't have one as yet. Thank You…charlie
+TreeTopFlier Please pass it along to your bud's…"could be…Lee will start including them in the sizing sets….especially if enough people were to e-mail Lee about it….makes sense…huh ?" charlie
+Kevin Carr Lube applied perfectly or not, both lubes were at least applied the same and the test was intended to be a comparison. At the end of the day, it was just something I wondered about and decided to share. Sorry it didn't meet your expectations, but thanks for watching.
+TreeTopFlier You compared equal application to equal application. Good test. Lanolin and one shot do get inside a little by this method of application anyway.
TreeTopFlier Ditto. I did a series of muzzle brake tests for shotguns which I never really published, because of a flaw in the test rig. It cost me a lot of money time and frustration. I still plan to redo it.
Thanks for taking the time to make the vid, very enjoyable. I noticed the torque wrench angle as well but it was still very informative. I'll be brewing up a homemade batch of lube myself thanks to you.
Thanks for the very nice comment!
Love the test, great work! One thing I've done is cut up a few pieces of sponge and threw it into my Ziploc bag. I use a 12:1 ratio, have never had a stuck case. After a few times through the bag the sponges are becoming saturated with the lanolin and now I'm down to 1 simple spray prior to sizing. I also only do 20-40 cases at a time. Its kind of like reduce, reuse, recycle. Thanks again for the great video.
Normally, in order to validate your data, you should look at the standard deviation and %RSD for your data. This allows you to look at how your measurements effected your final results. Normally data %RSD should come in under 2%. Your home made %RSD (40.1%, 26.8%, and 10.0% respectively) where the Hornady %RSD (18.9%, 17.1%, and 12.6%). Therefore, the Hornady product is more consistent than the home made lube. Also, Hornady uses hexanes as the solvent, which has 3 times the vapor pressure of 2-propanol. This would mean the Oneshot evaporates 3 times faster than that of the home made product. This may be why your home made version worked better after the alcohol was allowed to evaporate, where as the Oneshot gases off very quickly. You may just want to try a little lanolin on your finger and lubing the case to see if the alcohol was the issue or not.
I switched to this concoction last fall (from the old RCBS case lube pad) and have really had great results with all of my loads right on up to .300 mag. So much quicker and easier. I still do my due diligence and wipe down every case afterwards with a damp alcohol rag (I guess i'm picky when it comes to that kind of stuff), but all-in-all, i'm quite happy with the results.
I've been using a mixture of 6 parts of 91% Isopropal Alcohol and 1 part of Lanolin. A few quick sprays of this mixture, and I'm good to go for approx. 200 .223 casings. I've never had a stuck case. When I started this, I ran the same lubed case into a re-sizer 12 times with no drag and no adverse effect. this is all I use for bottle beck and long cases.
I've had multiple stuck cases using one shot. Zero using homebrew with lanolin.
One shot is good for pistol and small rifle cases but for large rifle I actually prefer lanolin or sizing wax.
@@TreeTopFlier About 2 hours ago I small base resized military 7.62 NATO (100 ) cases with One Shot. No problems at all!
As per the Hornady instructions, you are supposed to let the One Shot dry COMPLETELY out in the open, not leave it in the bag. Lucky you didn't wind up with a stuck case with .223, ask how I know :(. The proper way to measure the force is to hook up the torque wrench in line with the press handle. Your way leaves a lot of variable depending on how you press down on the torque wrench. I agree the LL/Dillon clone lube is much safer to use to avoid stuck cases but I also agree with the other poster that the lube leaves a sticky residue that must be cleaned off with either a solvent soaked rag or tumbling. I just use STP oil treatment, Bag Balm or Vaseline. Just a tiny bit is enough. Thanks for taking the time to make this video.
rsrocket1 Yep, that's the first thing I noticed, the way the torque wrench setup doesn't make sense.
rsrocket1 Thanks for watching. Hornady uses hexane as a propellant which has an extremely high evaporation rate, boils at 120F. They say to wait about a minute on the can. I opened the bag and they probably sat there for 10-15 min, so they were dry by the time I ran them. I probably could have showed that part better. Ill explain the torque wrench angle to Dima Prok if you care to see why I did it that way.
i use both lubes, although the lanolin mix i have is store bought (cabela's house brand)
like you noted, giving it some time to offgas the alcohol helps a lot - you want the exterior of the bullets to be almost tacky feeling. but i find its easy to over lube brass with the lanolin - resulting in hydraulic dimples on the shoulders due to build up in the dies, where as with the one shot, i've not had that issue.
personally i like the one-shot for resizing brass and the lanolin for resizing bullets.
with resizing the .310's three's no shoulder in the die to get any buildup, so the worst i've found that happens when you over-lube the bullets is extra lube getting all over your hands during the process. once you get some extra lube inside the die they get significantly easier to push through (based on my highly calibrated elbow anyway)
i find its very easy to under lube for bullet resizing with the one-shot, and make the press passes very difficult.
and it gave me a good excuse to do something with the bottle of lanolin lube that's been sitting on my bench for a couple of years now.
+plantone1 Hey plant, thanks for commenting. The more I use the lanolin the more I realize how little you actually need. I find myself using less all the time, it seems to linger in the dies pretty well, kinda seasons them.
Liked the video as I'm fairly new to reloading but I do have one question, why are you resizing 310 to 308 diameter bullets? Why not just buy 308?
Old video, and at the time I was looking for a task that would need good lubrication to show the difference if any. The side note to this was a video I made around the same time about using cheep bulk 7.62x39 bullets in .310" for the 300 blackout by resizing them down. That video is probably still on my rumble channel under TreeTopFlier. RUclips has made me remove some content here. Sizing them down was to add another resource for 300blk shooters when we were struggling to find light weight bullets in 308. I have a 4 part series on that same Rumble channel for new reloaders to help get started if your interested. rumble.com/user/TreeTopFlier
Alcohol is always going to be 95% maximum the instant you expose it to air - unless you combine it with something else BEFORE the air is present. In such a case, the liquid (alcohol in this case), is referred to as anhydrous because there aren't any water molecules present. Just an FYI tidbit.
does this fowl powder and primers? or is it a use and your good? or do you have to tumble after? have been thinking about this lately have had a few people say yes and a few people say no. Great video as always I am late to the party with the question but I have always found your videos great and useful! keep it up!
Great video, the only thing I would recommend is to spray the liquid lanolin/isopropyl alcohol as you the one shot cases. As this allows the isopropyl alcohol to evaporate and not cause cases to work so hard.
I have been using my home brew for over 3 years now wich is 1oz part mineral oil to 12oz 1 bottle of heat...i love it i have never stuck a case since using this. MO works the same as lanolin but much cheaper and easier to find...LOVE IT
Or stand up the case in a case holder and spray them, let dry way easier then this guys way
Shouldn't the effort arm be more linear to the force applied rather than at a 90 degree angle? Would it not be a more accurate measurement? Just wondering...
If you apply the torque wrench in line with the handle you would have so much leverage that the recorded number would be small and hard to show a difference. By attaching at 90 deg, it reduces the lever and gives you a higher torque reading for the same task. My hope was that this would amplify the readings to show any difference. It wasn't a perfect test, and the torque adapter I made started bending, so that didn't help. Hope that makes sense. If you want to know more about torque wrench formula www.mountztorque.com/service-support/calculations-for-torque-wrench-extension-adapters-and-spanners
So you tried to directly substitute the reloading press handle with the torque wrench using an adapter? I'm behind what you're doing and can't get "Mythbusters" science out of my head...
That's pretty much it. I originally tried to do it by attaching the wrench to the handle bolt but it would have twisted it of on the first cycle...way too much torque for that bolt dia. Anyway, I'm just a guy in my garage fooling around with an idea. For me the test was adequate to satisfy my question of whether or not lanolin is a legitimate reloading lube, and my takeaway was yes, it is. Thanks for watching, I hope you got something out of it even if the test was a little flawed.
Without question, I thought it was great! True American ingenuity, and keep it coming...I subbed.
@@TreeTopFlier You should not have to explain YOUR idea. Some people just don't appreciate your effort. For me, great job!
I use 1-shot on my pistol cases and your mix on my rifle cases. Both work great.
Should let the alcohol dry off before resizing or stuck cases will be next, yes I have been there, do not leave in a bag just pour them in a tray to dry off.
Really interesting to see this put to an actual scientific test as opposed to RUclips's standard "Ah yeah trust me it's great". One less test I need to perform.
I know this is an old video, but I really like all the effort you put into it. Well done and really wish you had your splitting of the bench on video🤣
I've used homemade lanolin mix, but have switched to one shot as it won't contaminate primers powder so removes an extra cleaning stage to get the lanolin off the cases (maybe I didn't need to though?).
Actual comparative analysis vs opinion? I like it!
Thanks
This was very interesting and entertaining. I like the effort. The only way to get good is to try things and make mistakes and learn from them. I like your approach. I thought you did great. I even saw you field negitive comments like a pro. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the nice comment!
You didnt use the Hornady one shot the way it tells you to. However, I do appreciate the video and the effort. Im going to try it based on price alone. One shot is great though as far as lube goes
You would get a much more accurate reading having the torque wrench running end to end parallel rather at 90 degrees from the press handle.
It didn't turn out very well and looks awkward for sure. I attached at 90 deg because that's how you keep the torque accurate when you are using a lever or in other words, attaching at 90 deg negates the leverage advantage so the indicator is accurate. Otherwise you have to use math. Thanks for watching anyway.
A digital wrench would be more revealing. But considering this was 7 years ago... great job !!
Yeah, its old and it went better in my head but it was an honest attempt.
I am new to this reloading world. Do I have to pre-lube 9mm brass and round nose bullets? I am using the Hornady LnL press with Hornady dies. I have seen no vids on hand gun pre-lube only rifle
A lot of your straight wall case dies have a carbide ring or, in Hornadys case Titanium nitride... they do not require lube. Personally I still spray a very light sprits of lube on them anyway...really makes them go through the sizer like hot butter. All lube applications are prior to sizing. Dont lube the bullets.
What's the margin of error? Love this test
You skewed the numbers by putting the torque wrench on at different angles between the Hornady and lanolin tests. Having the torque wrench at less than 90* like you did with most of the Hornady tests will show a higher number so it's likely that the Hornady would win if the test were done right. The Hornady also has to dry to work its best so being that they were in a bag and done first the lube may have not been ready. My brother has tried Dillon lube (lanolin based) against Hornady and the Hornady cut the work almost in half. This was on military .50 BMG cases which are a bear to resize and really show the difference.
+DonziGT230 The test had some imperfections and yes the angle of the torque wrench matters. I did 10 of each and had to adjust the torque wrench forward as the adapter I made started yielding to the torque I eventually had to adjust forward one point on a 12 point socket as I went along. This affected both formulas because I did all the forming then re-sizing etc. I just showed snips of the process so you don't see all 60 cycles if I had it would have been too long and unwatchable It was also difficult to accurately record the where the highest torque was since I had to rely on a visual reference. All in all, I tried to be fair and if I had a bias, it was suspicion of the lanolin application (internet folk lore) not the one shot. As for the evaporation in the bag... They probably sat for 10 to 15 min while I did set up and did other stuff. Hornady uses hexane as a propellant which has an extremely high evaporation rate, boils at 120F. They say to wait about a minute on the can. Anyway, sorry I didnt meet your expectations but thanks for watching.
The 10:1 ratio how do you measure the lanolin. Is that .4 of a inch if you use 4 inches on the bottle. Not real good with this.
It's parts per so you can determine what the measurement you use. Probably ounce would be easiest. So 10 ounce alcohol to one ounce of lanolin. I guess if you were measuring in inches on a bottle, 5 inches alcohol, 1/2 inch lanolin. Hope this helps...
@@TreeTopFlier thank you very much Tree Top Flier. Its seems to be pretty simple. However which way would be better to go with on lanolin; the heavy side, or the lighter side. Just wondering. You know how Murphys Law works
@David Gomez Probably on the lighter side. You can always add more.
great video thank you, I picked up a 4 pack of heet from wallie for 7.98 shipped to store and the same sheep oil off amazon for 8 dollars free shipping. looks like I have enough to last a long time. how much do you mix yours? 1oz to 8oz?
+budlight143 Yes 8 to 1 seems to be a good mix. You will have enough to last a very long time...happy reloading!
What about denatured alcohol. It is 100% . Water in the diluted isopropyl slows drying
I dont know why that wouldnt work...
I reload and resize 308 with Inox mx3 also clean and lube my guns with it!
Interesting, never heard of it. The lubes we use are formulated to not deteriorate gun powder. Lanolin is a wax from sheeps wool that provides lubrication and is still safe for powder. I think generally, petroleum-based lubes are considered bad. I looked up Inox and couldnt tell. interesting though Inox does make a Lanolin based lube called Lanox that might be interesting as well. Thanks for the comment.
The numbers don't make any sense because the measuring method is flawed. Forming 300 blackout cases takes a lot less effort regardless of the lube used and can be seen in the first column for homemade and yet in the end the average reverses but for Hornady it's in line, that just shows how flawed this data is. You were supposed to attach torque ranch to the part where rod attaches, not to the end of handle where the ball goes.
Dima Prok Hi Dima, thanks for commenting. I probably should have explained my reasoning in the video...they get too long fast. I attached the torque wrench 90 degrees to the handle to negate the lever provided by the handle. By doing it that way it shows the torque at the base of the handle which is greater than it would be at the ball where your hand goes. Doing it this way should amplify any differences between the two. I initially tried to use the handle bolt to get the torque at the base like you said but it would have been way too much torque for that bolt. Anyway, It didn't go exactly like I planned but I did try to be as consistent as I could and use the same method for all. The hard part was following the arc without putting downward pressure on the handle as rsrocket1 pointed out.
TreeTopFlier Yes, it's difficult to find a way to attach the torque wrench to the base, the best thing would be to find 3/4" square metal bar that would step down to 1/2" and use a coupler but that would be true way to measure torque as intended. I just tried making similar lube by using some sort of lanolin that I got maybe 10 years ago to use it instead of shaving cream (never tried) that has consistency and look of ear wax :-) I used hot water and it melted alright and I added iso heet but once it cooled down it just clumped and turned to waxy consistency and spray bottle wouldn't work, however I spread some on my fingers and used that to lube cases and I could form cases using one finger, (I am not kidding) I got same press as you do. I did about 70 and threw them in to tumbler to wash the lube off. The best homemade lube I made was using iso heet and RCBS lube which is I believe is also made from lanolin, it works great. BTW, I just realized it was your other video on resizing .310 bullets that helped me with reloading my 300 BLK, the accuracy is good too! Thank you for that video!
Dima Prok Some guys use the lanolin right out of the bottle for sizing and it works fine. I still like the Imperial sizing wax best. The lanolin is a great option. I've been using it on pistol cases lately. Even with carbide dies, just a very light spray the cases re-size like cutting hot butter. Glad the other was helpful to you, that's awesome! I think you were also looking at the making brass video, did that work for you too?
TreeTopFlier I use imperial wax too, it's great. I've been making my own 300 BLK brass, I made my own jig from plywood, works fine.
If you want to be very technical the Number tested in each category (N) is far to low to derive statistical significance. N should be at least 100 to get a reproducibility (p) of 95% (p=0.05). However, it doesn't really matter as this is an excellent example of "close enough for government work".
It is enough to convince me to get the item and try it for myself.
Thanks for an interesting video, TTF.
Wonder why you having problem using the Top Shot sprayed in the bag like that. take your cases laiy them in a pana with some paper towels on the bottom spray cartridges then roll around on the paper towels rolling and shaking the pan rolling the empty cases are covered I never have an issue easy peasy
I guess if you're comparing torque they may negate each other. Never really thought of it like that. I have no problem with homemade sauce with ease of sizing. For me it's about cost. I tend to process thousands of pieces at a time and the One Shot would break the bank.
Excellent, thanks a lot.
You are welcome!
does the hornady one shot leave a residue on the reloaded case ?
It does but it's not supposed to cause any problems, like contamination of powder, etc.
I know this is an old video ... but you're doing it wrong brother. Just the spraying/coating part. I am sure that by now you've quit using baggies and gone to Tupperware type containers with lids to mix and coat ... and no need to use so much. But I do agree, the homemade lanolin mix works great ... it's all I use. 4 oz of liquid lanolin mixed with a half gallon of 99% isopropyl alcohol makes for a lot of lube that will last most of us a lifetime. I keep some in a sprayer and the rest in a half gallon Mason jar tucked away in my reloading room and refill the sprayer when necessary ... meaning only once in five years (and I reload A LOT). Not sure I agree with your testing methods given buildup plays a role, especially when you lube heavy ... but cudos to you for the effort. Thumbs up liked and I am happy to be a subscriber.
I've been using both lanolin/alcohol and One Shot for years. I've read so many posts on the various gun forums about guys getting cases stuck with One Shot, but in literally thousands of rounds of ammo loaded, I've never stuck a single case. This is even sizing range pickup brass. I like them both, but I do like the fact that One Shot will not damage powder or primers.
An older video, but a great one.
Thank you, i got a lot of flack over this one. My goal was to validate or test home brew lube. Not ivalidate one shot.
is there any problems with homemade lanolin case lube with respect to powder or primer contamination, and what about storage?
As I understand it, petroleum products can deteriorate powder. This is why lubes are usually either water based or lanolin based.
Good video. I use both case lubes myself. My only issue with the lanolin is it seams like it leaves a film on the case that gets sticky. So I usually tumble the cases following sizing if I go that route. If I use the One Shot I normally don't. It could be that I get a bit too much lube on the cases. Interested in your thoughts about that.
blueeyephil Depending on the case, you really don't need very much. In the video I used more than is required just so I could ensure everything was coated.
I would leave the lube on till after the round is loaded and wipe them down afterwards. Some guys even throw them (loaded) back in the tumbler for a few just to get the lube off. It is a good Idea to get the lube off before firing. The case expands during ignition and locks itself against the chamber, when the bullet exits the pressure drops and the round releases from the chamber. If the case has lube on it the case may not get a good grip on the chamber.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
I've seen where some have tried a 6:1 ratio. The results may have been more on the lanolin side, but of course your using more lanolin.
+lky056 Some like to use it strait with a little on your fingers like you use Imperial sizing wax too. I used 1:8 because that was the most common recipe people recommended. Variations could definitely be experimented with. Thanks for watching!
+lky056 I started at 6:1 but now dilute it more. I want the lightest uniform even coating possible. Also my application container carries dried lanolin to new applications. I am probably going closer to 10:1 now and still getting very smooth results with a minimum of residue.
you want a very thin film. It takes very little to get the lubricity. Thicker lube doesn't necessarily mean more slippery. The individual lube has it's limits. Too much lube can hydraulically deform the brass too. For something like .50 which has a lot of friction, I don't think you need a thicker lube, but you might need a slicker lube.
Great job, thank you 👍
Is powder or primer contamination a concern with this mixture?
I wouldn't spray cases with any lube with primers installed. As for after the cases have been lubed, lubrication should be used lightly and once the alcohol has evaporated shouldn't migrate to primers...as for powder, it's my understanding that some commercial lubes have been using lanolin for years. I think the real danger is anything that contains petroleum.
To get accurate readings you must use the torque wrench with it's length parallel the the press handle. Furthermore, you're not consistent with your placement or orientation of the torque wrench. I'm sure lanolin is great, but your methods are not.
Very relevant. Excellent test and comparison. Good controls.
+shootist57 Thanks!
love the video, thankz for posting it,.... notice how the force gradually goes down with the lanolin and conversely up higher as the test goes on with the one shot ... ;-) ...yup, you gotta let the alcohol evap :-)
+inspectyerbooty That seems to be the case. Thanks for watching.
+TreeTopFlier In my subjective -feel based- experience the same was true for the One Shot. Evaporation smooths it out and makes it more consistent. If it is wet, I think it gets squeegied off of the case as it is sized and therefore provides less lubrication than it does as a bonded waxy film. I think it leaves a nicer finish feel than lanolin on the loaded ammo since it isn't tacky. There is a reason I had one of the first videos advocating lanolin: Cost and consistency. I like to dilute the lanolin more than 6:1 now, and since I use a jug with sponge pieces to help distribute it rather than a bag, it is easier to evaporate with the lid off. Old residue helps lube future cases in the jug. Same method works for One shot. A note. Lee lube dissolved in water works this way too(I haven't tried alcohol, but that has potential), but Lee lube is much more finicky about how dry it is. If it isn't fully dry, expect stuck cases.
+GunFun ZS Thanks for sharing and taking the time to comment. I pretty much use Imperial sizing wax for forming brass and swaging bullets. And I use the lanolin mix for resizing and that works good for me. I am super undisciplined with my application I pretty much spray the pile Im getting ready to load, stir them with my hand then spray them again... wait a little and start loading. After just a little bit there is enough residual on my fingers and in the die that they all run through smooth. Im still happy with the 8:1 ratio.
+TreeTopFlier i just learned fairly recently that people should not apply lube to the shoulder of the cases..... apparently just lube the body and the inside mouth of the empty case or else you risk dents forming from hydraulic pressure. have a great day my good friend ;-)
+inspectyerbooty Good point, I should have mentioned it in the video. I haven't had a problem with necks that are slight like the blackout and even the .223. But it is definitely an issue on cases that have a large shoulder surface area. When I see a dent form I know I've gotten sloppy with the lube. The thin lubes like this one don't do it as bad so spray on is still an option. If you start getting hydraulic denting you can just wipe the neck area before sizing. I mostly see this if I'm using too much sizing wax. I have a mosin that has a loose chamber so full length sizing fired cases takes a lot of lube...at some point the pressure migrates the lube onto the shoulder area and I get a dent. FYI the dents don't hurt much and they will blow out on the next firing. Happy reloading!
By the way I don’t use “Brake Clean” for anything anymore, it’s absolutely deadly.
I lost a friend to it!
Just saying.
wow, thats terrible
an you test test homemade lanolin case lube VS RCBS case lube, ( the stuff that comes in the plastic bottle) I use the rcbs pad and the rcbs liquid for resizing 7mm mad and it seems to work ok. but if homemade lanolin case lube is better then I will try
Not planing any other tests on lubes. This test wasnt really to find out which one was best but more to prove that a home brew lanolin lube works at least as well. I like the RCBS stuff too. Its water based, cleans off easy. I go back and forth to be honest. I use the lanolin mix mostly on pistol cases just so the go through the sizer easier, even with carbide dies.
FYI ... it can't be 'All Alcohol'. Anything above 99% alcohol must be created in a vacuum, and it immediately begins drawing moisture from the air when removed from the vacuum and exposed to the outside atmosphere. Just thought I'd throw out that little 'geek' fact for you.
Molecular sieves can be added to make it anhydrous. You could also distill over CaO to react away the water, and form Ca(OH)2.
Interesting
Howdy Tree TopFlier…Sizing with the Lee sizer just got fast…please watch this short clip we put on You Tube in order for Lee to look at it and possibly modify their sizing approach.
ruclips.net/video/4iHUDbC9hQk/видео.html
If you agree please contact my pard, Thom Finks as it is on his channel…I don't have one as yet. Thank You…charlie
+Charles Irby That is a great Idea you guys came up with and so simple too...
+TreeTopFlier
Please pass it along to your bud's…"could be…Lee will start including them in the sizing sets….especially if enough people were to e-mail Lee about it….makes sense…huh ?"
charlie
Done!
Costco sells 99% isopropyl alcohol.
+back40gunner Good tip, thanks!
+back40gunner I finally remembered to check my local Costco and they only sell 70% even asked the pharmacists. So not an option in my local.
Alongside many other flaws in this experiment, you are supposed to apply one shot inside the case. It says to do this right in the instructions
+Kevin Carr Lube applied perfectly or not, both lubes were at least applied the same and the test was intended to be a comparison. At the end of the day, it was just something I wondered about and decided to share. Sorry it didn't meet your expectations, but thanks for watching.
+TreeTopFlier You compared equal application to equal application. Good test. Lanolin and one shot do get inside a little by this method of application anyway.
+GunFun ZS Thanks I thought so, but I admit there are always things I would change on every video after the fact...thats how it goes.
TreeTopFlier Ditto. I did a series of muzzle brake tests for shotguns which I never really published, because of a flaw in the test rig. It cost me a lot of money time and frustration. I still plan to redo it.
The directions say to spray the cases at a 45* angle so as to lube the inside case neck, not the entire interior of the case!
U are making this to complicated do it the ez way ..jeez
Neither of them is even close to Eezox.