Tyrael forfeiting his immortality was by far one of the dumbest things I've seen in diablo history. he basically gave up the edge he had in the eternal conflict and made himself less helpfull .
@@DarkLOREDash I still don't understand how Tyrael the "human" is still capable of wielding El'druin if he's a mortal because that shouldn't be possible based on facts. Or when he went to take hold of the sword he should have died. Or am I incorrect?
J Thompson not only that but what even was the significance of it if 1.) he helped humans resist demons directly before 2.) he can just waltz right back in and be part of the ANGIRIS COUNCIL. just awful writing
Agreed. Also, though, those wings weren't just representative of immortality, but also bound Tyrael to the laws & dictates of the council. He wasn't free to choose without losing his position, first. Edit: above I misspelled Tyrael's name with a friggin 'i' where the 'a' is.
Yeah im more leaning towards this idea as well I feel like the lore by itself isnt THAT great, theres way better written stories out there that games adapted
I definitely agree that Tyrael keeps making mistake after mistake, especially in Diablo 3, but there are two two factors that think aren't been considered here: desperate circumstances, and problematic writing. First, the desperate circumstances, the two in particular concerning giving the Soul Stone to Marius to destroy, and destroying the World Stone later. On the former, I remember when I first played Diablo 2, and saw that scene, I actually was wondering why the hell (no pun intended) did Tyrael give this simpering fool, of all people, the Soul Stone, and charge him with destroying it. But then I quickly realized that, well, who else could he have sent off with it? It's not as if the Wanderer was in any condition to comply at that point, and the Prime Evils most certainly going to. It was an act of pure desperation, and not necessarily one of stupidity, even if it ended up being a stupid move. This doesn't excuse Tyrael not following up on Marius later, but I can understand the initial decision. (and keep in mind, he DID send the heroes of Diablo 2 after Marius, only to be sidetracked by the assault on the Word Stone, which became a bigger threat to deal with). The destroying of the World Stone is also not as idiotic as it may first appear, especially when you consider what it was being weighed against. If Tyrael just left things be, not only would Hell be able to easily invade Sanctuary, but it could have also been used as a launchpad to invade Heaven as well. Destroying the World Stone may not have been ideal, but it would have at least put both Heaven and Hell on more equal footing, and that's better than just letting Hell take over Sanctuary. If anything, the real idiotic move wasn't destroying the World Stone, but just sitting by and waiting 20 years before even thinking about doing anything about Hell's plans... and that's something that can't be blamed on Tyrael, but on Heaven's leadership. We already know just how prudent and infallible that is, at this point. This then leads to then events of Diablo 3... and that leads to what I think is the second factor not being considered here: that game's writing. I'm going to be blunt: the writing in Diablo 3 leaves a lot to be desired, and it feels as if the people who wrote this game's story didn't even bother to look at the lore and plots of the first two games, or at the very least didn't really understand them. From the change in atmosphere, to inexplicable personality changes and motivations (I'm looking at you, Adria), Diablo 3's story feels a lot like fan fiction, rather than a continuation of the tale woven in the first two games. So the idiotic actions that we see Tyrael commit feels not so much as the usual results of a consistently idiotic character, and more the results of a character who's past motivations are not fully understood or appreciated, and just plain old badly written. If you were to ask me if I feel Tyrael is kind of stupid in the third game, sure, I'd agree for the most part (though he at least cares about the beings in Sanctuary. which is the one thing the new writers haven't changed, and is one of the main reasons why I liked the character), but if you were to ask me if I thought he was idiotic overall, I can't go along with that, since when looked at in context, he's not nearly as stupid as it may appear when just looking at the first two games, and also when not using hindsight as a measuring stick (which can be an easy trap to fall into).
Regarding the question "Why did Tyrael not go after Marius afterwards?" I mean, he was trapped in Tal Rashas tomb. No one knows exactly for how long. Could have been hours, days, or even weeks. Maybe even a month or two. So by the time Tyrael was freed by the heroes of Diablo 2, Marius might have already been long gone, too far away to catch up with him. Additionally, when Tyrael was freed he mentioned that the energies binding him to the mortal plane are waning and soon he'll be forced to return to heaven. So, simply put, he literally just didn't have the energy to chase after Marius. And we don't know how long it takes for him to regenerate his energy before he can go down into the realm of mortals again either. Judging by the fact that he's not seen for the entirety of act 3 and only reappears in the mortal realm at the very end of act 5 (with act 4 taking place in the realm of immortals), it seems to take *very* long. So overall I agree, Tyrael got blamed for way more than he deserved in this vid. With the exception of diablo 3 (which thankfully I've mostly purged from my memory and refuse to accept it as canon) Tyrael usually was very reasonable, and only made seemingly stupid choices when he either couldn't know any better or simply had no other option. Killing prime evils just makes them reappear after some time - makes sense why he'd want to capture them instead His first lieutenant Izual betrayed him - I don't see how tyrael could have known, there's simply no evidence of any suspicious behaviour or anything The Horadrim, or at least some of them, were too weak to be entrusted with the soulstones - Who else should he have given them to? Plus, he needed some agents among the denizens of sanctuario to minimize his own direct involvement - which was forbidden due to the pact between heaven and hell - without making himself completely unable to act. He should have chosen the Horadrim better - But they're mortals, and he's not able to see into the future. A man who might be an indomitable fortress of piousness, righteousness, and holiness today might still succumb to evil tomorrow. No matter who he would have chosen, there's always a chance that at least a few of his "chosen ones" would turn out to be power hungry and greedy and not able to withstand the temptation of evil. And the list goes on. Really almost all of the criticism in this video can be anwsered with either "how was Tyrael supposed to know that?" or "what else was he supposed to do?" Unless, of course, if you focus exclusively on the events in Diablo 3, in that game, as you already said, he really did a lot of actually inexcusably stupid things. Definitely didn't really show a lot of "Aspect of Wisdom" worthy qualities. Quite the opposite.
I believe the reason Tyrael "waited" 20 years before even trying to intervene in mortal affairs again was because he was reforming within the crystal arch the entire time. The backlash from the world stone's destruction destroyed his angelic form. Tyrael had a 20 year respawn time!
With tyrael, I can say one thing. "The road to hell is paved with good intention". He always tried to help, may not have been the right choices, but at least he was trying vs the rest of the angels who choose to do nothing.
Debatably that's because his domain of justice is the hardest to uphold and gives the least reward, which makes his dedication to it indicative of his strength of character.
@@smoothbrane justice is not the hardest, hope is. When all hopes lost, you will not be able to think of anything to hope for in your human mind. It's just blizzard north wanted Tyrael be the guilty because of all these fallen angels.
inarius isnt really a fallen angel , he just had enough of it and broke out of the stasis , plus he is considered to be the most powerful angel because the worldstone was highly connected to him , some of that power still remains even without the worldstone , once he comes free you will see a super angel
I was impressed about that line when I was 15. Then I realized how stupid it was. That line means "I am always right".... If he is always right then why do we have this story and game? Why have the other aspects if he is Mr. Correct.
@@dxq3647 justice and truth may often go hand in hand, but what he is saying here is not what you're implying. You've conflated truth with justice. Tyriel tried to do what was just. Imperius tries to pass judgement on him while himself having done nothing and gone against their very nature. Tyriel was pointing out his hypocrisy, and saying what he was doing was justified, maybe not the "right" choice, but at least he made one. Having said that nothing fixing the horrid writing and story telling in D3. There is a reason, and it wasn't just the initial backlash due to weird monetization schemes, that diablo 3 was so hated by the fans. The gameplay was eventually pretty solid and rewarding by the end of the expansion, but everything else in the game was a let down.
Nonsense. It would be "dogmatic" or whatever the hell that means coming from a human. But Tyrael is quite literally justice itself. That's what it means to be an archangel in Diablo. Malthael is wisdom itself, later death itself. Imperius is valor itself. Tyrael isn't bragging like some human there.
To be as fair to Marius as possible, he DOES travel to the Durance of Hate, only to (understandably) shit himself at the sight of the three Greater Evils reunited- a sight which would probably get ANY normal mortal committed...
@@DarkLOREDash Dash, have you ever thought Marius was supposed to be Farnham from Diablo 1? It would make sense about his early nightmares and him being a drunkard before following his "partner" to the journey.
From what I recall, the Horadrim didn't have a way to track the soul stones, they used the soul stones to track these Prime Evils they were attuned to. So Tyreal had to either hunt Marius blindly, or try to aid the heroes and hope that Marius would be a hero instead of, well, himself.
@@DarkLOREDash Very much so. But as you said, he was in a pinch. And it came down to "Possibly do something but not likely, or get paid by resurrecting minions for heroes?"
I'm not sure if I'd call him an idiot. I do agree the dumbest thing he has done was becoming the aspect of wisdom. Tyrael, as justice, was just acting within his character. Justice is blind, cold, and reactionary. Tyrael trusted the wrong people, but everyone of those people were likely the best option. As justice everyone to Tyrael is innocent until proven guilty. Izual was a trusted lieutenant. Zoltan Kulle was brilliant and continually helped the horadrim during the hunt for the prime evils. Kulle wasn't seen as "evil" until after the hunts. Marius was his only choice. After you beat Duriel, Tyrael says that the powers that bind him on sanctuary are rapidly diminishing. Tyrael probably couldn't check on him. At best he could of asked the heroes to look for Marius. Other people interfering with his plans doesn't make him an idiot.
As naive as his decissons may be and as bad as the consequences were, Tyrael at least deserves to be called an archangel. His intensions were good, he showed time and time again that he is brave and willing to protect others from the forces of hell. He showed compassion and empathie and contributed greatly to humanities survival and to heroes victory in Diablo 2. Without him Diablo and his brother wouldn't have been captured and they would have destroyed the world a long time before. Even if he only delayed the inevitable he did much more good than Imperius and all other angels together.
Zoltun Kulle was right all along, every angel made mistakes out of fear look at the background of every angel and you will see that Inarius, Tyrael, Malthael and even Imperius did mistakes out of fear. If they didn't made those mistakes humanity was going to outclass both angels and demons, yes, however humanity wasn't going to go corrupted that easily. Now because of their fear humanity got corrupted, downgraded and both angels and humans became weakened, out of fear again the angels closed the gates of heaven and let us to rot, Diablo 4 will tell the story of anger and fear, our anger and angels fear and how the prime evils will exploit it later on. I think that Hell may win in this one.
Neither will win, if either wins it's end of the story, and it's end of making Blizzard profits. That's why in 3 games there wasn't a definitive "win" of any side. They just bounce back and forth leaving cliffhangers so people would stay engaged and continue to buy whatever they are selling. WoW is your prime example of that, Diablo is nothing different and will never be. For as much as it is loved, it's still a product meant to be sold for profit.
They aren't really mistakes. Each of the angels has a weakness and that is the single minded zeal their aspects represents. All of tyrael's failures gave rise to a wiser man. you have to remember that none of the angles ever even considered looking at mortals as individual beings, but now will be seen as a threat should they ever decide to side with the demons. With the arrival of their mother, i bet she will want her children to serve her now. And some will heed that call.
I don't think it's fair to call Tyrael a fool in a game franchise where literately everyone either fails horribly in their tasks, or they're unceremoniously killed in order to pave the way for new characters. Not to mention that if Diablo were to ever truly be defeated, there wouldn't be anymore Diablo Games. Tyrael is a guy who was designed to fail from the get-go, and he does the best he can within those set parameters.
It's like that time I took a blind old man to a swamp and told him to take a rake to the middle of it then return to me. I don't know why I haven't seen him since. It's been 5 years, he should have been done by now.
He couldve simply gone rogue, leaving the godamn council to assist the nephalem by his own will instead of becoming human himself (which is incredibly stupid, given the fact angels cannot become humans without demonic blood) Maybe even turning agaisnt the nephalem in RoS instead of Malthael, would be much more beliavable, also having Malthael returning to the fold to replace Tyrael. Hell he could become what Inarius was supposed to be in D4, becoming Lilith's better half.
what the fuck itharael or idk malthael(i know he had another plan but protecting heaven must be all angels priority), at least imperius almost died trying to stop diablo in prime evil form cause he's reckless and impulsin not fucking incapable sometimes all things need an inpuls u know
Tyrael was super clever because he knew when he destroyed the worldstone the nephalem power will awaken once again so regardless of how strong heaven or hell is the nephalem will always win inevitably. Tyrael is the teal MVP here he choose to look at the future and befriend them godlike being. pro move by tyrael
OK, you cant call Tyrael an idiot for wanting to imprison the prime evils and then say Imperious is an idiot for wanting to kill them, which it is Imperious is an idiot. However the use of the soul stones was clever and useful if not for the betrayal of humans the devils may not have had such a well placed plain to counter and use the stones to their advantage. In fact the majority of Tyrael mistakes is trusting the wrong humans. Besides that, i find him far from an idiot, he isn't perfect, but he most certainly isn't brain dead.
Bringing up the time he argued with Imperius to not "kill" Diablo to "prove" he's dumb is.. dumb. Like... wow, he was the smart guy there. Killing something which can respawn is pointless. And if the Angles would capture them, they wouldn't be corrupted as easily as humans (who are part demon, thus part "evil").
I completely agree with this, when i start D3 and found out he became human i was like ok thats cool, and when i finished D3 i was furious, I the very hero of sanctuary gathered everyone and fought, I the barbarian won the fight with blood and sweat, I destroyed minions of hell and while i was doing that, that piece of shit angel/human hybrid thing was crying like a baby, i was literally travelling the world while babysitting a grown ass man, and when he got his shit together what he done? he only used his sword once to open heaven's gate and ran, thats all, if thats the best heaven offer then minios of hell have every right to destroy this morons.
It's pretty true. Funnily enough, Tyrael used to inspire me in a kid from D2. He seemed like humans were nothing compared to him... but then he becomes a nephalem dependent fiend
10:40 Baal didnt 'just' walk up to the worldstone. he had some preparation to do first. it is implied that Baal wouldnt be able to challenge the nephalem or the "ancient ones" as they refer to themselves. so he needed something that apparantly Nihlathak of all ppl possessed. Anya knew that he had it aswell, thats the whole idea of why the player goes to slay him. we need the Relic of the Ancients it would have allowed us to pass through the gates atop mount arreat plateau and enter the worldstone chamber. by the time we kill nihlathak though, it turns out that he has already given it to Baal so the LoD wont be challenged when he reach the summit. but we will. rip kordac, madawc and talic.
I realize now that Diablo 1 atmosphere was over the top when it came to dread and feeling of uneasiness as you dwell deeper into the lore of the prime evils. What followed though is, as your perfectly described, a series of blunder by the archangels counsel that is hard to explain if not to generate money through sequels of the game. Hopefully D4 corrects the mistakes of D3 story telling.
It's not technically a reboot. It takes place some time after D3 and much of humanity dead, but with the Seven trapped in the Black Soulstone, the return of Lilith means she aims to save her children from both Heaven and Hell. Remember, it was her fierce protection of the nephalem that Inarius cast her into the Void because she was slaughtering anyone who wanted humanity exterminated, angel and demon alike. Or...it could be that she wants to make Heaven and Hell submit to be the One True Ruler over both domains, and will use her children to achieve that goal. Remember the four words that the Triune cultist said at the end of the trailer: "Blessed mother...save us."
I think you're a little too hard on Tyrael. He mostly just trusted the wrong allies, and got outmaneuvered by a team of supremely cunning, powerful, and ancient evil gods who weren't playing by the same rules binding him. Hardly grounds for being declared an idiot.
okay but counter argument, the high heavens were destined to lose to hell, so tyrial's descision to stand with the nephalim was really the only way forward
@@kelvinalarte6568 because the Angiris council was not unified, and Imperious is a fuckin idiot who doesnt listen. Malthael is apathetic. Tyrael goes in guns blazing with no support in sanctuary from his fellow Angel's. Auriel is a healer and comforter and prefers not to meddle in sanctuary. Ithereal just sits and reads and monitors time, Cosmo and multiple futures.. and is too apathetic. They allowed themselves to become weak, shatter their friendship, become somewhat opposite in their virtues, and fight. While the hell's do cooperate, especially if it means destroying the heavens. All of the angiris council should be replaced with newer Angel's from the crystal arch.
@@uptowndunker6346 The black soul stone still exists, evil still exists and so does its corruption if that thing remains. They need to find a way to extinguish the burning hells, to have any chance of success. Cut off their source of power, the ability to come back. This is what Diablo tried to do when he invaded Heaven. Malthael just made things worse overall for everyone. He cant see the big picture.
The irony is that humanity has handled itself and tyrael is the main reason that humans were allowed to continue. Humanity has defeated the prime evils. The video even shows how killing the prime evils for good is impossible. The angel and demon mingling added complexity to the universe by adding sanctuary and more beings. I think tyrael did a brave thing by questioning his own views and changing them. He might not be able to see the future and acts imperfectly, but he allowed for other beings besides angels to live. These humans and nephalem defeated hell multiple times. It is pretty wise to keep around companions who can aid in the fight of evil.
as i wrote in the malthael vid before. To me, all angels have fallen, because they failed to correct the error that is sanctuarium and the nephelim. Malthael was their last chance. Even justice couldn´t affect him, cause his cause was just. To get rid of something that shouldn´t exist in the first place after their eternal rules. All of this is beautifully shown in the fall of the angel of justice. Justice hasn´t been served in the end of Diablo 3, but it was completly thrown away by letting evil corruption thrive (which is sancturaium and are the nephelim)
Then Death herself, rises once more... As seen from the bio in Necromancy as this School of Magic is not Demonic but simply the understanding that all life, must die. As Demonic Magic only corrupts the user in order to serve another, or to drive them insane in an unnatural state of being. In short, the way Humans, Demons, and Angels gain the access to Necromancy is different.
The Angiris Council was just looking for an idiot to try stuff so they could laugh at him/her. They were all too lazy to do anything since they are immortal. They'd rather fight an eternal war than change the course of their lives that could end their immortality. Well, that's where Tyrael enters. The evils are just jealous of the angels' good looks because they're ugly af. Just imagine living in a kingdom of decrepit and decay and everything looks ugly and everything you could create is, well, ugly. Compare them to the angels in heaven wearing the shiniest armor and awesome tentacle wings with awesome weapons with gold/silver blood. The evils are pissed off that's all.
Tyrael is Good, unlike other angels which only represent order. It makes him naive, but it also makes him the most hero-like. Diablo could easy be told from Tyrael's perspective as the hero of the story.
He could have tried to escape Heaven with his angelic abilities, and if that doesn't work then tear off his wings then as a get out of jail card (because it seems to me that he was kicked out of Heaven due to the loss of his wings). Tyrael has always had a one track mind, and that's his flaw. He could have thought his actions through, but his complete devotion to his cause gets in the way of rational thinking.
Just because things didn't work out well does not mean he's an idiot. Sometimes have a principled stand and doing the right thing won't turn out well but that doesn't mean it was the wrong stance. He might have trusted the wrong people but that's more likely a factor of not understanding betrayal or duplicity or fraility of other beings
To be fair any time the prime evils make a plan especially diablo, no one know what dicision to make because it's most likely going to make no difference
We all knew Tyreal was an idiot when he let Marius free Tal rasha. Like BRUH ONE OLD MAN AND YOU COULDN'T STOP HIM. AND THEN, HE DEMANDS this one old dude to GO TO HELL to destroy the stone.
ZaWarudo let’s be honest it’s not like he helped much. The angle with divine power who’s supposed to fight demons for years and years. Go stop diablo while I guard these caves👀👀👀
The only claim to him possibly being an idiot is trusting others? His plan would have worked if not for the many betrayals. This doesn’t make him an idiot, especially when there wasn’t a valid reason to mistrust most of these characters. Tyrael isn’t responsible for the fall of Heaven either. You’re misplacing responsibly onto him. The prime evils and those who betrayed him are responsible. For an example if a person creates a vehicle such as a car to be driven as transportation and someone purchases my vehicle and decides to run over and murder another person, would i the creator of the vehicle be responsible for their actions and the results? Following a similar path of logic I do not see how tyrael is responsible for the fall of heaven in act 4 of Diablo 3. As far as being an aspect of wisdom, I can agree with a lot of what you’re saying. However I believe the point may have been that the wisdom of the high heavens wasn’t sufficient in dealing with sanctuary and that maybe a mortal mind might be the wisdom they need. Yes I think it’s dumb, just as dumb as having humans having the potential to be mighter than heaven and hell.
I love these subtitles, especially the ones at the start! "cereal, the ancient law of the high heavens strictly forbids us from interfering with the mortal world" btw, who's cereal?
I think it is because he is mortal now he is able to grow in wisdom since Angels are stagnant. If anything most of the things he has done were in his angelic form that you have so eloquently put were idiotic. Mortality has given him, I believe, a new prospective. The main take away is intelligence is knowing what you have to do, wisdom is actually doing it.
is NOT his fault, he can't know those people will betray him and everyone, If he know it, he will not trust them, but he could found out in the scold of destiny but is forbidden to read it, plus he guarded by the angel of fate, If could read it he will know it, Is easy call Tyael a idiot when you forget very important FACTOR, Remember he be alone to do this, if other angel have help him, could think of the possibility of traysion, but no, angel don't help and is the reason let those be foul by the evil plan of Diablo, all the fault is the other angel who a done NOTHING to stop or punish who join the demon side, all of this could be avoided if the other angel give a help*don't count on imperious help* to make sure the demon never be on mortal world or if be, to make sure the prison of those demon be never be destroy and never escape! all the effort of Tyrael be all for nothing because no one a give him a help, all the items be used to stop demons not enough, if the angel give support, all this will never arrived, the one who is all the fault is imperious! for not see the good on humanity, thanks to him, all this mess is be his fault and this law whp provent a angel to intervene to the fate of the mortal
Keep in mind, Tyrael's affection with the mortals are limited. He is by LAW forbidden to interfare with mortals in Sanctuary thus makes his powers and absence limited. :D
Ermn, killing Diablo instead of imprisoning him was actually really stupid of Imperius. Because as Tyrael said, he will just respawn and come back. Which he did, and then wreacked havoc (as we all know). I don't think your video makes a lot of sense my friend. If anything, Imperius is the idiot and Tyrael had to go around fixing his mistakes.
I'm not sure how we could fault Tyreal for trusting a fellow angel (Izual) which set the whole snowball in motion. After that I can't tell what was desperation in trying to fix that mistake or just tailored plot to further story. D3 set the stakes so high that only another nephilim could oppose the player and here we are with D4 and an og nephilim. Big surprise.
"you cannot judge me, I am justice it self. We were meant for more than this. to protect the innocent, but if our precious laws bind you all to inaction. Then I will no longer stand as your brother" Tyreals fall rest in peace old friend
You missed the part where he is literally guiding diablo to new knowledge and the internal workings of heaven. *Woopsie* He sure is fit for the wisdom role.
Meh, he's done dumb things mainly because he was built one dimensionally as almost all angels and demons were. However, despite that programming, he had a reasonable set of values and his vote saved humanity from extermination by the heavens. Also, I don't see the point of showing the scene where Imperius kills diablo(thus setting him free) as a mark against Tyrael since he was right, by capturing and holding him, they could have prevented him from doing greater harm(at least for a longer period of time).
Tyrael: Glorious new dawn!! Also Tyrael: K..close the gates on Sanctuary, they'll be fine I'm sure. What's that? Uber supped up Nephalem and all evils released again? Nah, don't worry about it. Rathma: Tyrael is a fool! Now I gotta summon mommy dearest back from the Void!
I see your points. But still Tyrael is one of my favorites and I’ll definitely take him over someone like Imperius who just sits around doing nothing helpful and throws a tantrum like a spoiled child if some so much as sneezes in his general direction.
Tyrael an idiot? Id think at most naive, not an idiot. He trusted his lieutants which makes perfect sense from a angelic perspective, he is an angel they are angels they fight the burning hells so all in it together. Secondly how could Tyrael know that the soulstones were being corrupted and that it was the secret plan of the Prime Evils to get themselves to Sanctuary like this. You coukd argue the destruction of the Worldstone was a dangerous move, however the Worldstone was already being corrupted as told in Diablo 2. If he hadnt destroyed it, what you think would happen to Sanctuary? That would have been a complete and utter takeover by hell. Ooh and it was Imperius that killed Diablo that allowed the Prime Evils plan to be sprung and get them to be exiled. If they had actually improssoned Diablo he wouldnt have ressurected out of their reach.
I would definitely agree with this. He doesn't shoot himself in the foot like Imperius does (who is a bloodthirsty idiot), and he doesn't think things completely rationally like Malthael does. Tyrael's heart is in the right place, because if he leaves Sanctuary alone then Heaven will inevitably lose the conflict against Hell and a corrupted Sanctuary. Tyrael could have thought more rationally though, which is only naivete and not yet on the level of idiocy (a bit more rationality would put him in the sweet spot).
Tyrael is no fool....he is the only Arch Angel that has ANY sense...as Auriel has said of all the archangels...his light has shone the brightest....the courage and conviction he has shown is above and beyond any others including the Nephalem...
Tyrael proves that Angels within the Diablo universe are far more human than they perceive. They’re prone to human emotions of rage and anger, and they’re prone to making mistakes.
I wonder if Tyrael truly is an idiot, or if he simply does not understand human beings. Upon Marius' first meeting with the archangel, he freed Baal. That alone should make it clear to Tyrael that the man was not worthy of his trust. Marius was either compromised by the forces of evil or simply too weak to make the right choice. And yet, Tyrael depended on this weak old man. Perhaps this could be seen as Tyrael fulfilling the traditional role of an angel as a messenger, in attempting to make Marius into an agent of his Justice on the mortal world. Still, it was a vessel poorly chosen. Perhaps Tyrael isn't so much stupid as he is simply incapable of understanding the nature of humans. Until Diablo 3 turned him into a total failboat that is.
Still don't get how he couldn't take the dark wanderer/ Diablo 1 on 1, yes Marius did free baal inside Tal Rasha's body but before that he had a good few minutes to just stab Diablo with his sword but all we hear in the background is the sound of Tyrael smashing his sword on the ground like he's a blacksmith.
Saying he became human is wrong. What he became is mortal. He is still an angel. But one that is no longer bound to heaven. The first angel of Sanctuary. It was also done to show he did not agree with the direction heaven was taking. Part of his own bad decisions came from having to play by the rules of heaven. Part which is the treaty, and part which is just foolish adherence to prejudice and tradition. I think Tyreal saw this and realized heaven could not continue to.stand if they didn't change. But forging a new path is ripe with opportunities to misstep...especially when those who could aid you do not. Yes, it seems silly that a now mortal angel who cannot take on the full aspect of the role would declare himself wisdom...but let us not forget the last holder of that title became a perversion and did have all of what Tyreal doesn't. Seems to me that maybe Maltheal's wisdom was lacking despite having every advantage. Again, Tyreal may be making mistakes but I think he sees the truth. That angels will perish or become monsters if they cannot find a way to forge a new path. What he is doing is trying to show them how to trailblazer. That maybe mortality is the answer to this dilemma even if it means they lose some of what they had. It is a trade they have to make to be able to play the long game. And this is wisdom.
Angels by mythology and religion are anthropomorphic personifications of their respective traits, especially the ones depicted by the Diablo franchise. Hence, they are meant to understand little outside of their sphere of influence. Tyrael is not the Angel of wisdom(initially) or fate or prophecy. So how would he know the consequences of his actions? You are a gamer, an observer outside the world of Diablo. If you were within it, you'd be equally clueless and without the strong personification of angels. As a story, these characters were well-made and well-thought-out. Calling Tyrael an "idiot" only tells me your personal choice of considering bravery as idiocy. I would hence call you craven by logic. Also, the fact that he sacrifices his immortality for humanity is lost on your psyche, considering you are a human. Hence you are also ungrateful by nature and do not understand or never had the good fate to experience or observe self-sacrifice from someone you know. This is why you are an idiot. Not Tyrael. He is merely a well-designed game character while you are human and supposedly have a brain.
This could layer in to Diablo's words when imperious "killed" him. "The trap is set". The council is only effective when working together, but when fractured the aspects individually can't account for complexity.
If Tyrael is an idiot then the reason is that the writer wrote him that way, stop dissecting fiction! This characters could be anything and everything, the only limit is the imagination of writers, there is no underlying plan.
By now you may notice that there is no virtue called “logic” or “reason” or “scientific approach”. So all the angels actually lack those as they only have virtues! Even Malthael was the “wisdom” representation. While wisdom means experience and knowledge - it still doesn’t mean “logic”! So while Malthael “knows” more than others - his way of thinking is still as primitive as Imperius or Inarius (that is “humans are an abomination and should be put to death”)! The same goes for Tyrael - he is doing what he thinks is just but the way he defines what is “just” is usually ill defined...
Not really, you can even find the video about malthael and what he did and why it actually made complete sense and wasn't same thinking like Imperius... He didn't find Humans as abomination he found that in order for Heavens to win he needed to deal with all that has Demonic essence in it hence why he wanted to kill all of humanity not because he hated them or whatever its simply because humanity had demonic essence in them along with angelic...
@@Ithiilien He shoulda knew humanity wouldn't go down without a fight. Shoulda looked for some way to deal with humanity's demonic essence situation besides "killing dem mortals with me shotgun and death."
Generated subtitles are awesome!
"All I've done furuous is pregnant justice well you hide..."
At the just beginning : - Cereal , whole my life ..
Take the stone you home to the hell Forge where it will be destroyed, now run, take the stolen money
Google: I accidentally the whole thing
Behold the power of cereal!
and dot forget about Sultan coop
Tyrael forfeiting his immortality was by far one of the dumbest things I've seen in diablo history. he basically gave up the edge he had in the eternal conflict and made himself less helpfull .
Totally agree
@@DarkLOREDash I still don't understand how Tyrael the "human" is still capable of wielding El'druin if he's a mortal because that shouldn't be possible based on facts. Or when he went to take hold of the sword he should have died. Or am I incorrect?
J Thompson not only that but what even was the significance of it if 1.) he helped humans resist demons directly before 2.) he can just waltz right back in and be part of the ANGIRIS COUNCIL. just awful writing
They only made him mortal, because they wanted to create a cheap knock-off from the Supernatural TV Show. No other serious reason really.
Agreed. Also, though, those wings weren't just representative of immortality, but also bound Tyrael to the laws & dictates of the council. He wasn't free to choose without losing his position, first.
Edit: above I misspelled Tyrael's name with a friggin 'i' where the 'a' is.
Maybe Diablo just has bad writing forcing so many of its characters to act idiotic to move the plot along.
It's either that or Tyrael is stupid either one tbh
Yeah im more leaning towards this idea as well
I feel like the lore by itself isnt THAT great, theres way better written stories out there that games adapted
Its mostly Diablo 3 fault. I mean just look at Azmodan, bEsT TacTIciAn iN HeLL
@@SomeTallGy dont forget jay wilson insulting David brevik, never forget
@AA Sharp lore and writing are two very different things.
I definitely agree that Tyrael keeps making mistake after mistake, especially in Diablo 3, but there are two two factors that think aren't been considered here: desperate circumstances, and problematic writing.
First, the desperate circumstances, the two in particular concerning giving the Soul Stone to Marius to destroy, and destroying the World Stone later. On the former, I remember when I first played Diablo 2, and saw that scene, I actually was wondering why the hell (no pun intended) did Tyrael give this simpering fool, of all people, the Soul Stone, and charge him with destroying it. But then I quickly realized that, well, who else could he have sent off with it? It's not as if the Wanderer was in any condition to comply at that point, and the Prime Evils most certainly going to. It was an act of pure desperation, and not necessarily one of stupidity, even if it ended up being a stupid move. This doesn't excuse Tyrael not following up on Marius later, but I can understand the initial decision. (and keep in mind, he DID send the heroes of Diablo 2 after Marius, only to be sidetracked by the assault on the Word Stone, which became a bigger threat to deal with).
The destroying of the World Stone is also not as idiotic as it may first appear, especially when you consider what it was being weighed against. If Tyrael just left things be, not only would Hell be able to easily invade Sanctuary, but it could have also been used as a launchpad to invade Heaven as well. Destroying the World Stone may not have been ideal, but it would have at least put both Heaven and Hell on more equal footing, and that's better than just letting Hell take over Sanctuary. If anything, the real idiotic move wasn't destroying the World Stone, but just sitting by and waiting 20 years before even thinking about doing anything about Hell's plans... and that's something that can't be blamed on Tyrael, but on Heaven's leadership. We already know just how prudent and infallible that is, at this point.
This then leads to then events of Diablo 3... and that leads to what I think is the second factor not being considered here: that game's writing. I'm going to be blunt: the writing in Diablo 3 leaves a lot to be desired, and it feels as if the people who wrote this game's story didn't even bother to look at the lore and plots of the first two games, or at the very least didn't really understand them. From the change in atmosphere, to inexplicable personality changes and motivations (I'm looking at you, Adria), Diablo 3's story feels a lot like fan fiction, rather than a continuation of the tale woven in the first two games. So the idiotic actions that we see Tyrael commit feels not so much as the usual results of a consistently idiotic character, and more the results of a character who's past motivations are not fully understood or appreciated, and just plain old badly written. If you were to ask me if I feel Tyrael is kind of stupid in the third game, sure, I'd agree for the most part (though he at least cares about the beings in Sanctuary. which is the one thing the new writers haven't changed, and is one of the main reasons why I liked the character), but if you were to ask me if I thought he was idiotic overall, I can't go along with that, since when looked at in context, he's not nearly as stupid as it may appear when just looking at the first two games, and also when not using hindsight as a measuring stick (which can be an easy trap to fall into).
Spot on
Regarding the question "Why did Tyrael not go after Marius afterwards?" I mean, he was trapped in Tal Rashas tomb. No one knows exactly for how long. Could have been hours, days, or even weeks. Maybe even a month or two. So by the time Tyrael was freed by the heroes of Diablo 2, Marius might have already been long gone, too far away to catch up with him. Additionally, when Tyrael was freed he mentioned that the energies binding him to the mortal plane are waning and soon he'll be forced to return to heaven. So, simply put, he literally just didn't have the energy to chase after Marius. And we don't know how long it takes for him to regenerate his energy before he can go down into the realm of mortals again either. Judging by the fact that he's not seen for the entirety of act 3 and only reappears in the mortal realm at the very end of act 5 (with act 4 taking place in the realm of immortals), it seems to take *very* long.
So overall I agree, Tyrael got blamed for way more than he deserved in this vid. With the exception of diablo 3 (which thankfully I've mostly purged from my memory and refuse to accept it as canon) Tyrael usually was very reasonable, and only made seemingly stupid choices when he either couldn't know any better or simply had no other option.
Killing prime evils just makes them reappear after some time - makes sense why he'd want to capture them instead
His first lieutenant Izual betrayed him - I don't see how tyrael could have known, there's simply no evidence of any suspicious behaviour or anything
The Horadrim, or at least some of them, were too weak to be entrusted with the soulstones - Who else should he have given them to? Plus, he needed some agents among the denizens of sanctuario to minimize his own direct involvement - which was forbidden due to the pact between heaven and hell - without making himself completely unable to act.
He should have chosen the Horadrim better - But they're mortals, and he's not able to see into the future. A man who might be an indomitable fortress of piousness, righteousness, and holiness today might still succumb to evil tomorrow. No matter who he would have chosen, there's always a chance that at least a few of his "chosen ones" would turn out to be power hungry and greedy and not able to withstand the temptation of evil.
And the list goes on. Really almost all of the criticism in this video can be anwsered with either "how was Tyrael supposed to know that?" or "what else was he supposed to do?" Unless, of course, if you focus exclusively on the events in Diablo 3, in that game, as you already said, he really did a lot of actually inexcusably stupid things. Definitely didn't really show a lot of "Aspect of Wisdom" worthy qualities. Quite the opposite.
@@HippieInHeart Why doesn't this have more likes! You are spot on!
It was destroyed by whoever wrote it in 3
I believe the reason Tyrael "waited" 20 years before even trying to intervene in mortal affairs again was because he was reforming within the crystal arch the entire time. The backlash from the world stone's destruction destroyed his angelic form. Tyrael had a 20 year respawn time!
With tyrael, I can say one thing. "The road to hell is paved with good intention". He always tried to help, may not have been the right choices, but at least he was trying vs the rest of the angels who choose to do nothing.
And he helped. But he forgot that humans are a race of stupid selfish idiots, who will willingly doom their race and world for a bowl of tasty soup.
Nerazmus I mean, tasty soup is so worth it.
@@tempestys yes, we see that during the pandemic
He may be an idiot
But he got our back
He is our idiot
He tries
Tyrael is the reason of Diablo series. His lieutenants, Izual and Inarius, are the only fallen angels (with names) in Diablo.
Debatably that's because his domain of justice is the hardest to uphold and gives the least reward, which makes his dedication to it indicative of his strength of character.
@@smoothbrane justice is not the hardest, hope is. When all hopes lost, you will not be able to think of anything to hope for in your human mind. It's just blizzard north wanted Tyrael be the guilty because of all these fallen angels.
@@smoothbrane i think that justice is so mallable, as justice isn't black and white
inarius isnt really a fallen angel , he just had enough of it and broke out of the stasis , plus he is considered to be the most powerful angel because the worldstone was highly connected to him , some of that power still remains even without the worldstone , once he comes free you will see a super angel
@@deepaksingh-ku9uf he won’t be free and thus no super angel.
"You cannot judge me, i'm justice itself"
That's basically what it means to be dogmatic.
I was impressed about that line when I was 15. Then I realized how stupid it was. That line means "I am always right".... If he is always right then why do we have this story and game? Why have the other aspects if he is Mr. Correct.
Yep. That whole scene is incredibly cringe. Tyrael is throwing a tantrum and somehow is the strongest because plot armor.
@@dxq3647 justice and truth may often go hand in hand, but what he is saying here is not what you're implying. You've conflated truth with justice.
Tyriel tried to do what was just. Imperius tries to pass judgement on him while himself having done nothing and gone against their very nature. Tyriel was pointing out his hypocrisy, and saying what he was doing was justified, maybe not the "right" choice, but at least he made one.
Having said that nothing fixing the horrid writing and story telling in D3. There is a reason, and it wasn't just the initial backlash due to weird monetization schemes, that diablo 3 was so hated by the fans.
The gameplay was eventually pretty solid and rewarding by the end of the expansion, but everything else in the game was a let down.
Nonsense. It would be "dogmatic" or whatever the hell that means coming from a human. But Tyrael is quite literally justice itself. That's what it means to be an archangel in Diablo. Malthael is wisdom itself, later death itself. Imperius is valor itself. Tyrael isn't bragging like some human there.
@@michaelbasileos "coming from a human" lol...
To be as fair to Marius as possible, he DOES travel to the Durance of Hate, only to (understandably) shit himself at the sight of the three Greater Evils reunited- a sight which would probably get ANY normal mortal committed...
I love Marius so much
@@DarkLOREDash
Dash, have you ever thought Marius was supposed to be Farnham from Diablo 1? It would make sense about his early nightmares and him being a drunkard before following his "partner" to the journey.
From what I recall, the Horadrim didn't have a way to track the soul stones, they used the soul stones to track these Prime Evils they were attuned to. So Tyreal had to either hunt Marius blindly, or try to aid the heroes and hope that Marius would be a hero instead of, well, himself.
Good point but... there's zero chance Marius was a hero
@@DarkLOREDash Very much so. But as you said, he was in a pinch. And it came down to "Possibly do something but not likely, or get paid by resurrecting minions for heroes?"
I'm not sure if I'd call him an idiot. I do agree the dumbest thing he has done was becoming the aspect of wisdom. Tyrael, as justice, was just acting within his character. Justice is blind, cold, and reactionary. Tyrael trusted the wrong people, but everyone of those people were likely the best option. As justice everyone to Tyrael is innocent until proven guilty. Izual was a trusted lieutenant. Zoltan Kulle was brilliant and continually helped the horadrim during the hunt for the prime evils. Kulle wasn't seen as "evil" until after the hunts. Marius was his only choice. After you beat Duriel, Tyrael says that the powers that bind him on sanctuary are rapidly diminishing. Tyrael probably couldn't check on him. At best he could of asked the heroes to look for Marius. Other people interfering with his plans doesn't make him an idiot.
As naive as his decissons may be and as bad as the consequences were, Tyrael at least deserves to be called an archangel.
His intensions were good, he showed time and time again that he is brave and willing to protect others from the forces of hell. He showed compassion and empathie and contributed greatly to humanities survival and to heroes victory in Diablo 2. Without him Diablo and his brother wouldn't have been captured and they would have destroyed the world a long time before. Even if he only delayed the inevitable he did much more good than Imperius and all other angels together.
Zoltun Kulle was right all along, every angel made mistakes out of fear look at the background of every angel and you will see that Inarius, Tyrael, Malthael and even Imperius did mistakes out of fear. If they didn't made those mistakes humanity was going to outclass both angels and demons, yes, however humanity wasn't going to go corrupted that easily. Now because of their fear humanity got corrupted, downgraded and both angels and humans became weakened, out of fear again the angels closed the gates of heaven and let us to rot, Diablo 4 will tell the story of anger and fear, our anger and angels fear and how the prime evils will exploit it later on. I think that Hell may win in this one.
In the Scroll of Fate Itherael saw that the Burning Hells win the Eternal Conflict.
Neither will win, if either wins it's end of the story, and it's end of making Blizzard profits. That's why in 3 games there wasn't a definitive "win" of any side. They just bounce back and forth leaving cliffhangers so people would stay engaged and continue to buy whatever they are selling. WoW is your prime example of that, Diablo is nothing different and will never be. For as much as it is loved, it's still a product meant to be sold for profit.
They aren't really mistakes. Each of the angels has a weakness and that is the single minded zeal their aspects represents. All of tyrael's failures gave rise to a wiser man. you have to remember that none of the angles ever even considered looking at mortals as individual beings, but now will be seen as a threat should they ever decide to side with the demons. With the arrival of their mother, i bet she will want her children to serve her now. And some will heed that call.
I don't think it's fair to call Tyrael a fool in a game franchise where literately everyone either fails horribly in their tasks, or they're unceremoniously killed in order to pave the way for new characters.
Not to mention that if Diablo were to ever truly be defeated, there wouldn't be anymore Diablo Games.
Tyrael is a guy who was designed to fail from the get-go, and he does the best he can within those set parameters.
take the stone to the hellforge.
there is nothing there that could impede you....
Not a one thing
It's like that time I took a blind old man to a swamp and told him to take a rake to the middle of it then return to me. I don't know why I haven't seen him since. It's been 5 years, he should have been done by now.
@@Pyrela he's fine.... I think
He couldve simply gone rogue, leaving the godamn council to assist the nephalem by his own will instead of becoming human himself (which is incredibly stupid, given the fact angels cannot become humans without demonic blood)
Maybe even turning agaisnt the nephalem in RoS instead of Malthael, would be much more beliavable, also having Malthael returning to the fold to replace Tyrael.
Hell he could become what Inarius was supposed to be in D4, becoming Lilith's better half.
Having Tyrael as the Angel of Death would of make things more personal as well.
Idiot or not, at least he took responsibility and learned from them unlike Mr valor
what the fuck itharael or idk malthael(i know he had another plan but protecting heaven must be all angels priority), at least imperius almost died trying to stop diablo in prime evil form cause he's reckless and impulsin not fucking incapable sometimes all things need an inpuls u know
Tyrael was super clever because he knew when he destroyed the worldstone the nephalem power will awaken once again so regardless of how strong heaven or hell is the nephalem will always win inevitably. Tyrael is the teal MVP here he choose to look at the future and befriend them godlike being. pro move by tyrael
OK, you cant call Tyrael an idiot for wanting to imprison the prime evils and then say Imperious is an idiot for wanting to kill them, which it is Imperious is an idiot. However the use of the soul stones was clever and useful if not for the betrayal of humans the devils may not have had such a well placed plain to counter and use the stones to their advantage. In fact the majority of Tyrael mistakes is trusting the wrong humans. Besides that, i find him far from an idiot, he isn't perfect, but he most certainly isn't brain dead.
Bringing up the time he argued with Imperius to not "kill" Diablo to "prove" he's dumb is.. dumb. Like... wow, he was the smart guy there. Killing something which can respawn is pointless. And if the Angles would capture them, they wouldn't be corrupted as easily as humans (who are part demon, thus part "evil").
I get that point, yeah
I completely agree with this, when i start D3 and found out he became human i was like ok thats cool, and when i finished D3 i was furious, I the very hero of sanctuary gathered everyone and fought, I the barbarian won the fight with blood and sweat, I destroyed minions of hell and while i was doing that, that piece of shit angel/human hybrid thing was crying like a baby, i was literally travelling the world while babysitting a grown ass man, and when he got his shit together what he done? he only used his sword once to open heaven's gate and ran, thats all, if thats the best heaven offer then minios of hell have every right to destroy this morons.
It's pretty true. Funnily enough, Tyrael used to inspire me in a kid from D2. He seemed like humans were nothing compared to him... but then he becomes a nephalem dependent fiend
This pretty much sums up my own feelings on him.
As the say, "ignorance is the beginning of wisdom". Maybe it's also true with "idiocy is the beginning of wisdom" as well?
Which make him more mortal than his brethren, his mistakes.
10:40 Baal didnt 'just' walk up to the worldstone. he had some preparation to do first. it is implied that Baal wouldnt be able to challenge the nephalem or the "ancient ones" as they refer to themselves. so he needed something that apparantly Nihlathak of all ppl possessed. Anya knew that he had it aswell, thats the whole idea of why the player goes to slay him.
we need the Relic of the Ancients
it would have allowed us to pass through the gates atop mount arreat plateau and enter the worldstone chamber. by the time we kill nihlathak though, it turns out that he has already given it to Baal so the LoD wont be challenged when he reach the summit. but we will. rip kordac, madawc and talic.
Diablo 3...the expansion Reaper of Souls isn't Diablo 4
I think people have grasped that dumbass
Kanye Best you clearly didn’t watch the whole video... dumbass lolol
I realize now that Diablo 1 atmosphere was over the top when it came to dread and feeling of uneasiness as you dwell deeper into the lore of the prime evils. What followed though is, as your perfectly described, a series of blunder by the archangels counsel that is hard to explain if not to generate money through sequels of the game. Hopefully D4 corrects the mistakes of D3 story telling.
It's not technically a reboot. It takes place some time after D3 and much of humanity dead, but with the Seven trapped in the Black Soulstone, the return of Lilith means she aims to save her children from both Heaven and Hell. Remember, it was her fierce protection of the nephalem that Inarius cast her into the Void because she was slaughtering anyone who wanted humanity exterminated, angel and demon alike. Or...it could be that she wants to make Heaven and Hell submit to be the One True Ruler over both domains, and will use her children to achieve that goal.
Remember the four words that the Triune cultist said at the end of the trailer: "Blessed mother...save us."
he just a gud boi that sometimes not think
I think you're a little too hard on Tyrael. He mostly just trusted the wrong allies, and got outmaneuvered by a team of supremely cunning, powerful, and ancient evil gods who weren't playing by the same rules binding him. Hardly grounds for being declared an idiot.
Yeah, to be fair, if you're the embodiment of justice in an unjust universe you're going to be a bit nieive.
When you think about it, Imperius almost looks like a genius when compared to Tyrael...
NOW THAT IS STRETCHING IT TOO FAR!
Or a knock off of the Lich King with wings. 😂
okay but counter argument, the high heavens were destined to lose to hell, so tyrial's descision to stand with the nephalim was really the only way forward
Why it is destined to lose?
@@kelvinalarte6568 because the Angiris council was not unified, and Imperious is a fuckin idiot who doesnt listen. Malthael is apathetic. Tyrael goes in guns blazing with no support in sanctuary from his fellow Angel's. Auriel is a healer and comforter and prefers not to meddle in sanctuary. Ithereal just sits and reads and monitors time, Cosmo and multiple futures.. and is too apathetic. They allowed themselves to become weak, shatter their friendship, become somewhat opposite in their virtues, and fight. While the hell's do cooperate, especially if it means destroying the heavens.
All of the angiris council should be replaced with newer Angel's from the crystal arch.
@@VengefulMaverick
Imperius is Leeroy Jenkins.
They didnt need the council maltheal was about to get the job done untill cock blockers came along
@@uptowndunker6346 The black soul stone still exists, evil still exists and so does its corruption if that thing remains. They need to find a way to extinguish the burning hells, to have any chance of success. Cut off their source of power, the ability to come back. This is what Diablo tried to do when he invaded Heaven.
Malthael just made things worse overall for everyone. He cant see the big picture.
The irony is that humanity has handled itself and tyrael is the main reason that humans were allowed to continue. Humanity has defeated the prime evils. The video even shows how killing the prime evils for good is impossible. The angel and demon mingling added complexity to the universe by adding sanctuary and more beings. I think tyrael did a brave thing by questioning his own views and changing them. He might not be able to see the future and acts imperfectly, but he allowed for other beings besides angels to live. These humans and nephalem defeated hell multiple times. It is pretty wise to keep around companions who can aid in the fight of evil.
as i wrote in the malthael vid before. To me, all angels have fallen, because they failed to correct the error that is sanctuarium and the nephelim. Malthael was their last chance.
Even justice couldn´t affect him, cause his cause was just. To get rid of something that shouldn´t exist in the first place after their eternal rules. All of this is beautifully shown in the fall of the angel of justice. Justice hasn´t been served in the end of Diablo 3, but it was completly thrown away by letting evil corruption thrive (which is sancturaium and are the nephelim)
12:30 what D IV isn´t out yet and I didnt see any lore realeases
Not really an idiot but really NAIVE Tyrael is imo
To be fair, the inevitable drive towards a new chapter of the Diablo franchise requires that the Lords of Hell outwit the Heavens.
Then Death herself, rises once more... As seen from the bio in Necromancy as this School of Magic is not Demonic but simply the understanding that all life, must die. As Demonic Magic only corrupts the user in order to serve another, or to drive them insane in an unnatural state of being.
In short, the way Humans, Demons, and Angels gain the access to Necromancy is different.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615
Funny that necromancy used to mean: communing with dead spirits like a medium. Chatting with ancestors.
@@draxthemsklonst
That is still the case but it's up to the writers.
If he didn't fuck up a lot there would be no game to play. We're the hero. We fix shit, and clean up others messes. That's all kind of the point
"Why all the good guys are idiots" "Why all the demons are geniuses" lmao
meh...
+
藍海 cuz if they were smart they wouldn't be good.
because if the good guys were smart, there would not be a second, third, and fourth game lol
Every "Genius" bad guy: "This defeat was only a setback on my master plan that even the Blizzard writing team doesn't know about!"
I know most of the Lore, but I still love those Videos, since they are so entertaining! :)
Keep up the good work!
The Angiris Council was just looking for an idiot to try stuff so they could laugh at him/her. They were all too lazy to do anything since they are immortal. They'd rather fight an eternal war than change the course of their lives that could end their immortality. Well, that's where Tyrael enters. The evils are just jealous of the angels' good looks because they're ugly af. Just imagine living in a kingdom of decrepit and decay and everything looks ugly and everything you could create is, well, ugly. Compare them to the angels in heaven wearing the shiniest armor and awesome tentacle wings with awesome weapons with gold/silver blood. The evils are pissed off that's all.
Tyrael is Good, unlike other angels which only represent order. It makes him naive, but it also makes him the most hero-like. Diablo could easy be told from Tyrael's perspective as the hero of the story.
Had he not tore off his wings, he could have stopped Adria from turning Leah by outright defeating her.
@@thanghoang3198 Had he not tore off his wings he would have to stay in the High Heaven and no longer interfere with Sanctuary.
He can't help a cheeky interference
He could have tried to escape Heaven with his angelic abilities, and if that doesn't work then tear off his wings then as a get out of jail card (because it seems to me that he was kicked out of Heaven due to the loss of his wings). Tyrael has always had a one track mind, and that's his flaw. He could have thought his actions through, but his complete devotion to his cause gets in the way of rational thinking.
Cool character that Blizzard totally fucked up by piss poor writing.
Just because things didn't work out well does not mean he's an idiot. Sometimes have a principled stand and doing the right thing won't turn out well but that doesn't mean it was the wrong stance.
He might have trusted the wrong people but that's more likely a factor of not understanding betrayal or duplicity or fraility of other beings
I never would've given up my ArchAngelic form, power, and immortality.
Well what if #plotwist and Tyreal was the biggest evil genius planned everything all along? He do looks suspicious by acting sooo' dumb XD
At this point, I'll take that writing to retcon the current path.
Well if that’s the case his brother would have killed him before picking up the soulstone
To be fair any time the prime evils make a plan especially diablo, no one know what dicision to make because it's most likely going to make no difference
Where are the animations from? Is there like a Diablo cartoon I missed out on?
"Silence!" - imperius
Tyrael forfeiting “angelness” so he could enjoy all the gold we gave him in resurrecting our D2 hirelings / mercenaries.
Poor Tyrael. Hes awesome but they wrote him like an idiot.
We all knew Tyreal was an idiot when he let Marius free Tal rasha. Like BRUH ONE OLD MAN AND YOU COULDN'T STOP HIM.
AND THEN, HE DEMANDS this one old dude to GO TO HELL to destroy the stone.
Agree tho... the speech is amazing
Looks like Izual was right "Treal was a fool!"
I wish they bring the angel tyrael back in D4
You and me both my dude.
JUSTICE must be served!
I don't see any reason why he would not appear in D4, I mean he is one of the main protagonists
@@frenchdream330 what i meant was Tyrael in "Angel form" not in mortal form
@@namelessdrake225 Oh i see, well he is human now. Infortunately we have to deal with it :(
ZaWarudo let’s be honest it’s not like he helped much. The angle with divine power who’s supposed to fight demons for years and years. Go stop diablo while I guard these caves👀👀👀
The only claim to him possibly being an idiot is trusting others? His plan would have worked if not for the many betrayals. This doesn’t make him an idiot, especially when there wasn’t a valid reason to mistrust most of these characters.
Tyrael isn’t responsible for the fall of Heaven either. You’re misplacing responsibly onto him. The prime evils and those who betrayed him are responsible. For an example if a person creates a vehicle such as a car to be driven as transportation and someone purchases my vehicle and decides to run over and murder another person, would i the creator of the vehicle be responsible for their actions and the results? Following a similar path of logic I do not see how tyrael is responsible for the fall of heaven in act 4 of Diablo 3.
As far as being an aspect of wisdom, I can agree with a lot of what you’re saying. However I believe the point may have been that the wisdom of the high heavens wasn’t sufficient in dealing with sanctuary and that maybe a mortal mind might be the wisdom they need. Yes I think it’s dumb, just as dumb as having humans having the potential to be mighter than heaven and hell.
7:12 you mean diablo 1?
I have never understood why Imperius (that's the name of this angel?) have judge Tyrael, an incarnation of JUSTICE.
4:10 also the narrator guy for the ps1 fighting game Evil Zone.
I love these subtitles, especially the ones at the start!
"cereal, the ancient law of the high heavens strictly forbids us from interfering with the mortal world"
btw, who's cereal?
I think it is because he is mortal now he is able to grow in wisdom since Angels are stagnant. If anything most of the things he has done were in his angelic form that you have so eloquently put were idiotic. Mortality has given him, I believe, a new prospective. The main take away is intelligence is knowing what you have to do, wisdom is actually doing it.
is NOT his fault, he can't know those people will betray him and everyone, If he know it, he will not trust them, but he could found out in the scold of destiny but is forbidden to read it, plus he guarded by the angel of fate, If could read it he will know it, Is easy call Tyael a idiot when you forget very important FACTOR, Remember he be alone to do this, if other angel have help him, could think of the possibility of traysion, but no, angel don't help and is the reason let those be foul by the evil plan of Diablo, all the fault is the other angel who a done NOTHING to stop or punish who join the demon side, all of this could be avoided if the other angel give a help*don't count on imperious help* to make sure the demon never be on mortal world or if be, to make sure the prison of those demon be never be destroy and never escape! all the effort of Tyrael be all for nothing because no one a give him a help, all the items be used to stop demons not enough, if the angel give support, all this will never arrived, the one who is all the fault is imperious! for not see the good on humanity, thanks to him, all this mess is be his fault and this law whp provent a angel to intervene to the fate of the mortal
He became wisdom because justice was no longer needed
Love where they started with Tyrael, hated where they took him.
At least he is a Good-sounding Idiot who does what he can to keep people alive. I think some people got lazy with the lore in game.
Tyrael is not an idiot !! He is justice itself !!!
Keep in mind, Tyrael's affection with the mortals are limited. He is by LAW forbidden to interfare with mortals in Sanctuary thus makes his powers and absence limited. :D
1:50 glorious cinematic with unexpected title indeed,lmao
The voice actor for Marius has such a cool voice.
Ermn, killing Diablo instead of imprisoning him was actually really stupid of Imperius. Because as Tyrael said, he will just respawn and come back. Which he did, and then wreacked havoc (as we all know). I don't think your video makes a lot of sense my friend. If anything, Imperius is the idiot and Tyrael had to go around fixing his mistakes.
I'm not sure how we could fault Tyreal for trusting a fellow angel (Izual) which set the whole snowball in motion.
After that I can't tell what was desperation in trying to fix that mistake or just tailored plot to further story.
D3 set the stakes so high that only another nephilim could oppose the player and here we are with D4 and an og nephilim. Big surprise.
For justice to exist, injustice must have existed before. That's why he loves conflict, it's a necessity for his being to even exist.
Same for valor. No war with hell, not a lot of need for valor.
What other choice but Marius did Tyrael have? It was that or let Baal have it right there.
"you cannot judge me, I am justice it self. We were meant for more than this. to protect the innocent, but if our precious laws bind you all to inaction. Then I will no longer stand as your brother"
Tyreals fall
rest in peace old friend
Tyrael is the most powerful angel of them all, he has the N-word pass
This was the comment i was looking for 😂
You missed the part where he is literally guiding diablo to new knowledge and the internal workings of heaven. *Woopsie* He sure is fit for the wisdom role.
I don't think that was Tyrael in the Diablo 4 trailer...
It was Inarius.
I get the feeling you just dont like Tyrael...
That's weird. I love Tyrael in D2. D3 he was still the most angelic of the council but made a lot of sloppy mistakes
@@DarkLOREDash Okay cool, I guess it just seemed like you were singling my guy Tyrael out and calling all the bad guys geniuses and what not....
Tyrael is the Jesus of Diablo lore, he made himself flesh to save humanity but at least he didn't die like a fool
You can't do our angel-bro dirty like this :(
Meh, he's done dumb things mainly because he was built one dimensionally as almost all angels and demons were. However, despite that programming, he had a reasonable set of values and his vote saved humanity from extermination by the heavens. Also, I don't see the point of showing the scene where Imperius kills diablo(thus setting him free) as a mark against Tyrael since he was right, by capturing and holding him, they could have prevented him from doing greater harm(at least for a longer period of time).
Tyrael: Glorious new dawn!!
Also Tyrael: K..close the gates on Sanctuary, they'll be fine I'm sure.
What's that? Uber supped up Nephalem and all evils released again? Nah, don't worry about it.
Rathma: Tyrael is a fool! Now I gotta summon mommy dearest back from the Void!
I see your points. But still Tyrael is one of my favorites and I’ll definitely take him over someone like Imperius who just sits around doing nothing helpful and throws a tantrum like a spoiled child if some so much as sneezes in his general direction.
Tyrael an idiot? Id think at most naive, not an idiot. He trusted his lieutants which makes perfect sense from a angelic perspective, he is an angel they are angels they fight the burning hells so all in it together. Secondly how could Tyrael know that the soulstones were being corrupted and that it was the secret plan of the Prime Evils to get themselves to Sanctuary like this. You coukd argue the destruction of the Worldstone was a dangerous move, however the Worldstone was already being corrupted as told in Diablo 2. If he hadnt destroyed it, what you think would happen to Sanctuary? That would have been a complete and utter takeover by hell. Ooh and it was Imperius that killed Diablo that allowed the Prime Evils plan to be sprung and get them to be exiled. If they had actually improssoned Diablo he wouldnt have ressurected out of their reach.
I would definitely agree with this. He doesn't shoot himself in the foot like Imperius does (who is a bloodthirsty idiot), and he doesn't think things completely rationally like Malthael does. Tyrael's heart is in the right place, because if he leaves Sanctuary alone then Heaven will inevitably lose the conflict against Hell and a corrupted Sanctuary. Tyrael could have thought more rationally though, which is only naivete and not yet on the level of idiocy (a bit more rationality would put him in the sweet spot).
This is one of my favorite dash videos!
how does that quote from spaceballs go? ''Evil will win because good is stupid'' i think its something like that lol
Tyrael is no fool....he is the only Arch Angel that has ANY sense...as Auriel has said of all the archangels...his light has shone the brightest....the courage and conviction he has shown is above and beyond any others including the Nephalem...
from Tyreal Angel of Justice to Tyrone fella from the hood...
Tyrael proves that Angels within the Diablo universe are far more human than they perceive. They’re prone to human emotions of rage and anger, and they’re prone to making mistakes.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions
I wonder if Tyrael truly is an idiot, or if he simply does not understand human beings.
Upon Marius' first meeting with the archangel, he freed Baal. That alone should make it clear to Tyrael that the man was not worthy of his trust. Marius was either compromised by the forces of evil or simply too weak to make the right choice. And yet, Tyrael depended on this weak old man. Perhaps this could be seen as Tyrael fulfilling the traditional role of an angel as a messenger, in attempting to make Marius into an agent of his Justice on the mortal world.
Still, it was a vessel poorly chosen. Perhaps Tyrael isn't so much stupid as he is simply incapable of understanding the nature of humans.
Until Diablo 3 turned him into a total failboat that is.
I appreciate your drive to get all the lore down. Thank you
Still don't get how he couldn't take the dark wanderer/ Diablo 1 on 1, yes Marius did free baal inside Tal Rasha's body but before that he had a good few minutes to just stab Diablo with his sword but all we hear in the background is the sound of Tyrael smashing his sword on the ground like he's a blacksmith.
Plot device
Maybe the Dark wanderer just had a really high dodge rating?
maybe the dark wanderer was a mighty warrior before being possessed, idk
Saying he became human is wrong. What he became is mortal. He is still an angel. But one that is no longer bound to heaven. The first angel of Sanctuary. It was also done to show he did not agree with the direction heaven was taking. Part of his own bad decisions came from having to play by the rules of heaven. Part which is the treaty, and part which is just foolish adherence to prejudice and tradition. I think Tyreal saw this and realized heaven could not continue to.stand if they didn't change. But forging a new path is ripe with opportunities to misstep...especially when those who could aid you do not.
Yes, it seems silly that a now mortal angel who cannot take on the full aspect of the role would declare himself wisdom...but let us not forget the last holder of that title became a perversion and did have all of what Tyreal doesn't. Seems to me that maybe Maltheal's wisdom was lacking despite having every advantage. Again, Tyreal may be making mistakes but I think he sees the truth. That angels will perish or become monsters if they cannot find a way to forge a new path. What he is doing is trying to show them how to trailblazer. That maybe mortality is the answer to this dilemma even if it means they lose some of what they had. It is a trade they have to make to be able to play the long game. And this is wisdom.
I don't agree but gpod argument.
Good, Evil it's all in the toss of the coin. But suppose you throw a coin enough times... suppose one day, it lands on its edge.
Angels by mythology and religion are anthropomorphic personifications of their respective traits, especially the ones depicted by the Diablo franchise. Hence, they are meant to understand little outside of their sphere of influence. Tyrael is not the Angel of wisdom(initially) or fate or prophecy. So how would he know the consequences of his actions? You are a gamer, an observer outside the world of Diablo. If you were within it, you'd be equally clueless and without the strong personification of angels. As a story, these characters were well-made and well-thought-out. Calling Tyrael an "idiot" only tells me your personal choice of considering bravery as idiocy. I would hence call you craven by logic. Also, the fact that he sacrifices his immortality for humanity is lost on your psyche, considering you are a human. Hence you are also ungrateful by nature and do not understand or never had the good fate to experience or observe self-sacrifice from someone you know. This is why you are an idiot. Not Tyrael. He is merely a well-designed game character while you are human and supposedly have a brain.
This could layer in to Diablo's words when imperious "killed" him. "The trap is set". The council is only effective when working together, but when fractured the aspects individually can't account for complexity.
Tyreal sees a guy blindly following Diablo because of fear
also Tyreal to marius: you must find the courage to step through that gate!
If Tyrael is an idiot then the reason is that the writer wrote him that way, stop dissecting fiction!
This characters could be anything and everything, the only limit is the imagination of writers, there is no underlying plan.
By now you may notice that there is no virtue called “logic” or “reason” or “scientific approach”. So all the angels actually lack those as they only have virtues! Even Malthael was the “wisdom” representation. While wisdom means experience and knowledge - it still doesn’t mean “logic”! So while Malthael “knows” more than others - his way of thinking is still as primitive as Imperius or Inarius (that is “humans are an abomination and should be put to death”)!
The same goes for Tyrael - he is doing what he thinks is just but the way he defines what is “just” is usually ill defined...
Not really, you can even find the video about malthael and what he did and why it actually made complete sense and wasn't same thinking like Imperius... He didn't find Humans as abomination he found that in order for Heavens to win he needed to deal with all that has Demonic essence in it hence why he wanted to kill all of humanity not because he hated them or whatever its simply because humanity had demonic essence in them along with angelic...
@@Ithiilien He shoulda knew humanity wouldn't go down without a fight. Shoulda looked for some way to deal with humanity's demonic essence situation besides "killing dem mortals with me shotgun and death."
*in slow epic voice*
Imperius- the Angel of Scientific Approach
Jack
I agree! Even the 7 “Evils” are not that stupid... or evil!
Sorry for the pun - couldn’t help it...
Jack
I agree! Even the 7 “Evils” are not that stupid... or evil!
Sorry for the pun - couldn’t help it...
kinda sad not to see tyrael in diablo 4, so far there is no mention of him what so ever. i hope his not dead or worse, with him being mortal and all.
Please tell me the OST at 12:30.I would literally pay you for this
TIL Tyrael is the Dumbledore of Diablo.