...I struggle with having to choose. Why do we have to pick servitude to anyone other than Lilith? She sees her offspring, “us,” as nothing less than something new to be preserved and exalted above heaven and hell. Screw the small minded squabblers!...long live the nephalim and those that defy blind stagnation and give birth to them! Wooooo!!
It's not a choice between heaven and hell, it's a choice between angels who may hate you but generally leaves you alone and demons who actively try to eat your face. The games aren't about saving the Heavens, but about beating back threats to Sanctuary.
I would agree it is clear that your only allied with the angels at the end of the game because of your shared enemy in Lilith, inarius has no intent on working with the character and the horadrim and actively tried to thwart our efforts
Angels hate humans because they are vile, disgusting, and made in the image of Lilith and Inarius (two narcissists), people just pretend it's for no reason but from the angels point of view sanctuary is a disgusting biological cess pool that should never have existed. Inarius realizes this but it's too late
Do we not have offline modes? No. So that means if you wanna do Solo play, you need a very stable and powerful internet connection. You will also have to have something else to do while waiting in line to play Solo. I think offline options would help keep the ever clogged servers less so if someone wants to play Solo, saving space for multiplayer (s).
That was a lot of introspection for a "why imperious is an idiot 2.0" video. Most of the angels were cool with humanity/nephilim. Or at least the honored the vote
He was the main catalyst, however Tyrael has shown to fumble things numerous times as well as the other angels, including Malthael abandoning his post. Its a bit of a wash
Imperius himself, although utterly disgust with the very concept of mankind, honored the vote and the council as a whole. And he is even a very emotional one, far from any self-discipline paragon. Yet he never moved on his own, never actually attack human, not take a move on the nephilim even at the very moment the heaven falls, and even provide help and cooperation with the nephilim when it is needed. Also even he knew Malthael is beyond salvation, and he bears the title of the aspect of valor, and he already admit that Malthael is more of a threat than a brother, he still just can't attack Malthael by himself. Of course all these features of Imperius might below the standard of being something close to divinity, but that also makes him a good character. Tyrael on the other hand, despite all his good intentions, what he did is trade almost all his power yet still not get help from the heaven at all. To me, that's something much closer to be classfied as "idiot". I really hope Tyrael could get ascension once again in D4, or at least show us the new archangel of justice.
It seems that you forgot about this but the reason Malthael was unharmed by Tyreals sword was because he existed in another death like state, we had this whole section of the campaign where we had too also get into that same state
Imperious isn't wrong to accuse the nephalem and Tyrael for Diablo's invasion. Adria was setting it all up right under their noses and they were dumb enough to trust her. Basically everyone does stupid stuff in Diablo 3, let's be honest. The only reason the nephalem come out on top are because they are overpowered.
Demons remain all loyal while angels and many of them go rouge or betrays their party like Tyrael's liutenant which we encountered at D2 and D3 when the prime evil revived him just to mock tyrael
@@latarshahall7618 that blames the devil writers, it seems mediocre, it seems that they write the story separately from each game and without building their world or their concepts in a coherent way, it has the same problem as the disney star wars, continuity errors
Isn't it interesting how in the beginning, hell is plagued with infighting and heaven is resolute (with the possible exception of tyrael), and as the series progresses, hell achieves more consolidation and heaven starts to suffer more and more infighting.
the issue with knowing, true knowing, that you are the embodiment of everything light and good, is that you never believe you have any flaws, even if they exist... the evils never have to deny themselves as anything else, because all their actions seem to embody evil regardless, but how do you fight an eternal conflict on the side of light, and still keep that perspective with everything that war represents... if the story of Anu is solidified as cannon, then the Nephalem is the reunification of what Anu was always meant to be before the separation... I find the story which has been told numerous times about an all powerful being splitting off from themselves the "evil" within to become pure, when they made this decision, the "evil" aspect of themselves was still apart of themselves, which means the decision was made in unity with consideration from the "pure" side of the being, and the "evil" side of the being, another consideration is that context is everything here, how is one to know they have imperfections of evil, if they have no grounds for comparison, whose to say the good isn't the evil, and the good is the imperfections observed, what do the angels do with captured demons, imprisonment is a form of torture as well, despite what people say...
What I want to see is the demons actually taking on virtuous traits, just as the Angel's are taking on non virtuous traits, or evil traits. Like the presence of humanity has somehow infected them.
I would like to come across demons and angels that don't want to fight or just both helping people and ether side of the team. like the goatman from the 1st game he doesn't want to fight. it shows not every demon and angel are out to get us and each other. also showing they can get along if they just try to make things work between the two.
@@rickydiscord7671 It seems to me that all of the diablo universe centers around an attempt at balance. It would make sense for any creation regardless of origin, to try to find their own balance.
Take a look at diablo - he repeatedly dies for the greater good and cares for his brothers. So far in the lore the three have never betrayed each other. Mephisto sacrifices himself to give Diablo and Baal time and Baal finally attempts to take revenge for his brothers. Diablo is shown to be level headed and cunning, always playing the long game and making contingency plans. In contrast to the angels who act like 12 years old emos, I quite like him.
I mean, isn't that kind of Lilith's whole thing? She wants to save sanctuary and humanity from the eternal conflict and that's her whole purpose behind the events of D4
This is poor reasoning. You’re evaluating heaven and hell by two different metrics, coming to the conclusion that heaven fails to be perfect, and then damning it.
I instantly like your videos because I've finally found someone whose interest in the Diablo lore far exceeds my own - your passion is evident from the first few words you utter and I can't help but smash the like button! As a side bonus, the content itself is always superb. Your channel has become my favourite on RUclips very rapidly indeed :)
What I'd really like to see: when they inevitably release the holy based class (paladin, crusader, etc) that they release a burning hells aligned class. The closest human I can think of to this would be Adria the Witch, so perhaps a class similar to that, but there is a ton of overlap between that and the necromancer which is decidedly not hell aligned in lore.
Id love to side with the prime evils, however I feel like even if you choose one of the evils you are STILL enemies to the others. Or at the very least very shakey allies(They don't really work together, at least not like angels. For example baal and mephisto had a clap fest when baal wanted to kill lilith.) Hell Id like to choose what side I go with, and get to change in appearance as I continued down the path. (some fable esq stuff.)
Angels have done nothing against humanity. Demons have. It's the demons who constantly try to use humanity while angels were going to stay out of it. Angels are not "evil" in Diablo despite what some idiots say "angels are just as bad as demons". No, they're not. The problem is that either side must balance out the other. Killing angels would tip the balance of power to the demons. Why would you want to do that? I'm genuinely tired of dorks in the Diablo community being edgy and saying they want to fight angels. This isn't a god damn supernatural episode.
I suggest to play Bayonetta then. Diablo is a game where heroes go against evil (be it with or without angels). I do believe this is a staple feature of the whole instalment
I really hope that we can be a rogue angel or a demon (succubi) in D4. It would be interesting to see the reaction of people of a succubii saving people, or an angel that just kills for fun.
They never do so, after all Diablo series is hack and slash, and not a philosophical journey. We all see, that siding with heavens is a pure vanity, while Lilith is more reasonable, yet, we as players have no choice in this matter, because all of it was already prescripted (linear)... a pity.
@@rohenthar8449Lilith isn’t more reasonable, just has more character than what we’ve seen in a while. But from our characters point of view and not our own, Lilith is a monster going on a massacre and must be stopped.
I feel like the Angiris Council still believes that “there is no problem” with the actions of Imperious. I don’t believe that none of them could be stronger than the other. Which brings me to what I want to happen next in the Diablo story line... and I want to start that with a question... Who here is pissed off with the 3 of the angels playing god on their own behalf without the other 2 knowing?... the conversations always happen between Tyriel talking to Imperious and to Malthiel. It seems like one plays the role of a savior, without repercussions; an indomitable god figure who falls due to hubris; and, crazed god without concern for the sanctity of his actions. With all of these 3 running amok its no wonder why the high heavens lost. I am wondering why did Auriel and Itheriel did not make a move before hand... is it in the hopes of believing in Imperious or the angiris council? Or is it in the written record of fate? Safe to say, seeing their actions in D3, I believe that they would have a better relationship with the nephilim if it weren’t for Imperious. I do agree that the angels must die... but just the 3 who keeps on deciding without the unity of the others... I feel like it must not only stop there, the crystal arch must be destroyed to make a new angel that could be a game changer for the series. Just imagine... with the defeat of both Valor and Justice... Hope kept it together... if just as what you said is true that Itheriel is shattered, hence his inability to lead... i feel like its high time to change his aspect to “Faith”. With the reconstruction of the heaven for the second time... a new angel... a more humble and caring one will be born a new with the virtue it holds as “Love”... as you can see, with Love (or rather Mercy and Piety rolled into one) leading the fray and changing the whole category of the eternal conflict by swaying the nephilim to its peaceful way... things could change drastically... hells wont be as enticing with something like this spearheading the high heavens.
Auriel and Ithariel do not do anything not because of their double standards as a pseudo symbolism of a realistic god, the writers of Diablo seem to be stupid and lazy in ideas with the potential to use them as guardian angels of humanity and with Tyrael to create the new heaven to protect humanity against demons, but those who write the devil lore seem to forget their own characters just like the star wars disney movies, wasted potential
@@omarvidal3543 I know right?! The potentials they could have played and expanded with could have seriously made the entire game more enticing than what was given. The story writing of D3 was quite sloppy. It had too much loose ends. they made the burning hells as god tier rulers who can basically do what ever they want while they demoted the heavenly host unto this terrible band of 5 cry babies who can't even agree on something properly. Not to mention work as a unit worthy to be called as the "angelic host" let alone "angelic"... They made each angel unto this overly simplified creature unworthy to be called an angel. The major thing that irks me is the eternal conflict has been called the eternal conflict with the heavens having a finite amount of angels while the demons infinite... and still drag the conflict for forever... it only shows how powerful those alleged angels are... which they have poorly represented in the games. Like seriously. Has no one ever thought about the power struggle that has happened for forever now with only a finite amount of individual creature vs... an infinite amount of creatures? It absolutely makes no sense whatsoever... its pretty obvious what makes angels angels. They do what's right. Always. They don't have free will to resist to do what's right. That's what makes the writing part hard... how are they to make something as perfect as the word angel work. Its either an angel is doing all good or the complete opposite. Sucks for 3 of those angels doing what they're not suppose to.
I agree with almost everything you said except for a "love angel" because it sounds like you basically want a Jesus type Angel to lead to the heavens which in theory sounds like a good idea but in reality it's won't work. I can't see a love angel disembowelling a demon. Jesus himself kissed the cheek of the guy that had him killed. "Love thy neighbour" love diablo? Maybe many do start out like that but over time through blood and destruction become jaded. I think its better to just destroy heaven and hell and hope humanity survives.
@@ANTICARBONTAX Hmm, you have a point. The creative side of me is telling me that “that” peaceful power can be equally tenacious if produced correctly in a hack and slash game. Diablo is still a hack and slash game after all… but imagine this, the jesus type angel becomes an extreme threat to the legions of hell for he is able to convert hell spawns to “converts”. Any converts who then fight for heaven is able to mark killed unconverted demons to a power source for the crystal arch. As i recall, the devs made the heavens and the hells polar opposite in this game, heaven being finite while hell being infinite. That jesus type angel becomes an equalizer for he is able to produce that infinite power source for heaven. You see, being “loving” does not mean being a flat character who is unable to fight. A good embodiment just like valor and wisdom, imperious and malathiel were highly susceptible to exterior threats that can easily destroy what they stand for. Being an angel of love, that angel could perhaps also stand for mercy. What other mercy is there than to give anyone he encounters a chance to life? If not a power source for heaven, then a choice to what they want to be. A demon can be a convert to fight for heaven, or they could be unconverted and be presented a chance to live as something else that does not bind them to their previous beings, or they could go back to being demons. Become a new race perhaps, the fay, probably… I mean, have you not noticed, almost all iterations and expansions revolve on reusing old ideas, it gets boring. How many butchers have we encountered? King leoric is still a boss. The scrawny smart boss is still there (lazarus, mephisto, belial)… the tanky ones never left (duriel, uriel and azmodeous). My point is, i hope the game becomes interesting, much more interesting than simply providing better graphics and reiterated concepts. I understand that they can’t veer away from the Diabloesque aesthetic and concept… but please give us something more… crazier and wilder… don’t you want that too?
Basically what happens in Sin War. Until Uldyssian hit the hard reboot button, and the Worldstone was altered to nuke our powers. But now that the Worldstone is gone.... :)
Tyreal was killed when he destroyed the worldstone, and iirc, 20 years later was reformed in the crystal arch, so maybe no guarantee that the decimation of the angels would lead to a brand new council and personalities.
"The resultant explosion dispersed the light and harmony of my angelic being. Without form or shape, I restored myself within the realm of Pandemonium." It doesn't sound like Tyrael actually died and he did not reform in the crystal arch, he reformed in Pandemonium.
You are overlooking two angels. Hope and Fate. Hope already has sided with humanity and helps as she can. Fate seems to be changing, as he decided to trust in the Nephilim over his prophecy. Who knows what Fate will become since the destiny he foresaw has already been thwarted once, much to his relief. Imperius isn't truly the ruler of heaven, he just acts like he is. It is all too likely Imperius will fall, to pride and fear.
It's worth noting that of all 4 Cardinal Virtues (Wisdom, Justice, Courage, & Temperance) represented on the Council in the High Heavens the one that is not present is Temperance...
If tyrael does not return in Diablo 4, does not return his angelic form, does not return saving humanity or the hero he chooses in an important mission or confronting a dangerous demon with a cinematic, I swear by Anu, I will not buy this game
Yeah that was my thought too. He "died" when the Worldstone exploded and reformed with the Crystal Arch. So.... was it a "new" Tyrael that decided to become mortal later or the exact same angel? That's probably something that will be lost in story or retconned later I think.
@@endoraroberts Tyrael was actually reformed in pandemonium for some reason. "The resultant explosion dispersed the light and harmony of my angelic being. Without form or shape, I restored myself within the realm of Pandemonium." When reading that it doesn't sound like Tyrael actually properly died when he destroyed the world stone but that he had more of a Sauron thing going on where his physical form was destroyed but he could rebuild it over some time.
@@supernus8684 my guess is that even destroyed physically the world stone still had ultimate power over the spirit, so when he did that, the world stones fragmented but innate properties brought him back. it is used to create worlds after all.
Great video, but the only thing I would add to is at 13:19 we should keep in mind that Tyrael did indeed DIE at the end of D2, his body shattered along with the Worldstone. His "soul" or "essence" was obviously eternal, or at least able to be renewed into a new form near 20 or so years later. I would assume from that, in the event an Angel or at least and Arch-Angel dies that their spirit and body is remade in the crystal arch over a decade or more. It does indeed take time, it's not a fast process. But even without speculation, what happen to Tyrael gives us an idea of what at least happens to Arch-Angels when they die. :)
I did read a bit of lore that stated the crystal Arch was darkened because of Diablo's presence. Tyrael sensed it and thats why he fled the heavens with the soul stone
13:10 yes, they do, the Angiris Council at least, Tyrael is living proof of this, and he states this himself in Diablo 3; by his own account, angels, or, at least, the Angiris Council, like any prime evil, die and their essence wanders about untill it's reborn, so no, angels don't die for good, and as such, expect Malthael to come back at some point for the same reason, because for some stupid reason their essence cannot be destroyed; as a matter of fact, Tyrael states this twice, the first one is when he is recolecting the destruction of the world stone "after it (the destruction of the soul stone), my mind (essence) wandered for what felt like an eternity" or something along those lines, and the other is when you ask him how he feels about being a mortal and he replies "you know that you will die, and that is a big difference", meaning angels never really die, besides, if the whole "dying for good" did really affect angels, the whole point of Tyrael's betrayal of the High Heaven and his fall as a mortal would be rendered moot, at least, instead of the "sacrilege" that Imperius so condescendingly says when Tyrael takes off his wings, he'd say something like "you fool, that won't do shit for you!"; so, no, angels don't die for good, like all prime evils, the angiris council will all be reborn if slain in battle, except for Tyrael, who is now a mortal and can die for good now; also, as a bonus, same goes for fallen angels, Izual was killed in Diablo 2 and came back in Diablo 3, and, as shown in Diablo 2, he still has angelic essence. By the way, your own video shows him saying this between 8:21 and 8:31 so your own point is rendered moot by your own video. Congrats? Edit: I have no clue where you took that info from, but if Tyrael is now the aspect of wisdom, that is because he was apointed as such, and thus Malthael, who will be reborn as I've explained before (unless he's an exception to the rule for some freaking reason), will be given another aspect, the most likely of cases is that he lost the aspect of wisdom and became the aspect of death before his self-imposed exile, though why death is an aspect at all, I cannot tell, death does not seem to be a virtue, but something else...
Malthael corrupted his own essence. So it is possible he won't be reborn. At least not as an angel. He, ironically, is far closer to being a nephilum than an angel. As are all the angels that followed him. It is odd that it is hell and the demons that maintain their purity while heaven and the angels seem to constantly have a problem with becoming some impure variant.
@@jacobfreeman5444 True, he might not come back as an angel. About hell keeping their "purity" while heaven loses it, it's expected, really, as Adria states it in RoS, demons are more accepting, less rigid, in other words, demons bend before they break, angels break before they bend. This strectiness is the one biggest weakness angels have, and that is why Inarius, and only Inarius, ever succeeded in accomplishing peace, he was willing to bend, to accept, to change, shortlived as it may have been, it was peace nonetheless, no other angel ever did this.
It's stated in multiple places including more recent books that angels do not reform in the Crystal Arch but are replaced by new angels that come from it. Tyrael reforming in Pandemonium is unprecedented and it has not yet been explained how it happened, but it supposedly will be in Diablo Immortal. So yeah... you and those that upvoted you are wrong.
@@ScorchHellfire I have the Book of Cain and it does not mention this at all, in fact, there is another mention to "angels don't die like humans do", and then there is logic... In fact, the only mention about angels dying for good is in the book Storm of Light, and nowhere else. I'll have to read that book, because EVERYWHERE ELSE point towards angels coming back, and if only the book mentions that, and nothing else, we can safely use "death of the author" to chalk that up to an honest mistake. Why? Angels not coming back would lead to several problems with lore and dialog existing within the games, that are supposed to be "more cannon", and quite a few plotholes due to logical missleading and flatout errors. For instance, the whole eternal conflict and the creation of Sanctuary would be nonsensical at best, for the angel army can never reach the prowess of the demon army by any stretch of the imagination, for demons are constantly in-fighting and are reborn, while angels are constantly at peace and die for good, they can never achieve the same amount of experience, and if the angels are so strong that they have never lost, thus no new angels were needed, the creation of Sanctuary is rendered moot, why flee when you just can't lose? Edit: and please, never mention a chinese mobile cashcrab made out of re-skining other games as a source of lore, be it past, present, future or otherwise, your point is rendered moot by this alone.
I would think that if killed by a Nephilim that got the power of death itself it erases ones existence as again they become an aspect of death to kill Malthael as only a aspect could kill let alone harm a aspect of death as every other injury type of thing would pass right on through
I think it will be more appropriate to say angels are agents of change since when they died, they basically get reincarnated without their former memories. The entire cadre of angels will eventually change due to attrition and that can bring new ideas, new ways, new perspectives. Even Tyrael gained new perspectives from observing the humans. The demons OTOH, simply reformed with their memories and power intact. They don't really change in that way.
If I was given the choice. I would spare neither side. I'd push Angels and Demons out of Sanctuary, lock them up in their realms and let them rot, forever. Humans have endured enough suffering by both sides, and are well rid of them.
It makes sense that when we loose faith, we gravitate toward strength for protection, hence the loss of Wisdom giving way to Valor, but it's still something the angels should have been able to see beyond, given how hard-headed and self-righteous Imperious (the name is a bit on the nose, even for the audience) was shown to be.
Tyrael's sword passed through Malthael because he was the Aspect of Death, and nothing can hurt him, not even the Nephalem themselves. The Nephalem first had to touch Death and undergo a physical change to be able to even touch him. So it had nothing to do with pure or impure intent.
This story has me wondering about several things. First and foremost Anu. In the depiction of him, I could see the 5 spikes of his crown being the 5 aspects of the High Heavens creating what would become in Angelis Council. Though most concerning, and a possible twist for a 5th Diablo Chapter (since the 4th is more or less done at time of me writing this comment; compared to the 2 years prior to when this video was created). The Worldstone was called "The Eye of Anu"...So what happened to the other Eye?! Could there be another Eye of Anu? An Eye like the previous that could cause change? In several other game media lores, various games concerning "eyes" have ones for creation and the others for destruction. Though Anu was supposed to be all the "good" aspects of the pearl, it would reason that his second eye has to be somewhere. Perhaps in the void? Perhaps Lilith has kept information concerning this 2nd Eye hidden from all, especially her angel husband for which she could never really trust. Could this 2nd eye be another eye of creation to create more worlds of paradise, or could it possible destroy all the former worlds to reunite Tiamat and Anu back together. Some form of apocalypse for Angel and Demon alike. The Demons and Angels call their war the Enteral Conflict. Maybe this 2nd Eye could recreate the pearl?!
I've always loved the lack of ambiguity presumed by people when it comes to "pure intent" the assumption is it's "good" but that's not really the caveat here. Malthael wasn't conflicted in his conviction, he was all in, entirely devoted to wiping out humanity. His intents to kill humanity was in other words "pure" in that it wasn't a guess or morally objectionable to Malthael he was entirely certain and entirely at peace with this task. Where Tyrael is constantly conflicted that saving humanity over and over at the expense of his fellow angels and constantly falling for the geniuses of Hell's machinations...Malthael sees this is the only way to end the conflict, his goals and intentions were all set and acceptable without any...exceptions.
i dont think its about them losing but for them changing its entire angiris council , remember if one of them dies , he gets replaced by a new born angel who is a complete different being that the one before , thusfor i think the first step heaven is doeing is closing its gates because they are preparing for the arival of 2 new members as a replacement for malthael and tyrael , 2 members breaks away from the stasis heaven currently has , i am sure imperius will be replaced too , maybe even by inarius himself
I have been playing Diablo 3 for a month now...i dont know why so many gamers hate it...but as for me as Diablo fan since...i love trilogy and i have no problem with the story.
It's because they're salty fanboys. They were hoping for a another version of Diablo 2 but they didn't get it so they complain about everything instead.
@@davidarbogast37 as for me every version of Diablo is fine with me...as long as i can hack and slash every monster and build anything i can in the game...and the storyline also is fine with me...
Isn't the whole point of the Diablo universe that the fight between Heaven and Hell will *never* end? That there's no magical fix or happy ending? No matter how strong or weak one side becomes, the other side will gain new allies, or make a blunder, and the"Eternal Conflict" will continue. It isn't a matter of the angels being big dumb dumbs where they should've been more careful or intelligent - they will always fall into traps or gain reinforcements depending on what the demons do.
I'm hoping to see the game where humans see that they can take over either realm of heaven and hell. What happens when Diablo has to give up the spot of top demon to a human? what happens when what heaven losing really means is that, a human rules heaven and it no longer is what it once was?
New thought, Anu cast out that which was "unpure" and Angel are born and die and a new Angel is born. But demons are reborn over and over again. Maybe Angel's can't be reborn because they become unpure as they live. New angels are only born when heaven is in harmony. Heaven isn't in harmony, thus not pure anymore, so no New pure angels and the angels that exist are tainted by hell.
Yeah I HATED how we just bowed to Inarius. After learning about what he did the nephalim, his own creations, and his own family I kinda hate the character
It's more implied that his physical form as destroyed and it took him 20 years to reform and go back ot Heaven only to shed his immortality and join humanity. Least that's my understanding of it.
I thought the Anu story was an allegory of their existence too. Almost like it's their own religious belief without any proof like our own religious beliefs today.
I would not say there is no proof, rather what one considers proof varies greatly from person to person. I happen to see proof, you dont, who is right? Its all relative and very much subjective and that's the problem which prevents anyone from knowing for certain.
watching a couple videos you have repeatedly stated that Tyrials blade didn't hurt matheal because it can only hurt those it deams unjust. Tyrials blade couldn't hurt matheal because he had gained the aspect of death. The nepheliem also would not have been able to stop matheal had the nepheliem also had not got an aspect of death as without it Matheal could be touched by no weapon. Unless I am mistaken you are someone who actually studies the lore where as I just play the games but from what I could tell even if the blade thought matheal was unjust it still would not have been able to hurt him
I can see a Nephilim wanting to destroy both Heaven and Hell to finally put a end to them interfering with Humanity and to not be a constant threat of eradicating Humanity as Death almost did so both threats needs to be dealt with
Honestly this is why I like Diablo's lore. Is not angels are good and demons bad, they are all bad cause they both want to destroy humanity. I also hope Blizzard gives us the opportunity to chose, I would love to bring Imperius down to its knees, and also wreck Tyrael for being so stupid.
D4 should be Humans playing Angles and Demons off each other to only commit genocide on both sides as revenge and then humans falling apart into tribalism and racism as a commentary on the World Wars. Would be cool in my mind. Neither Angel or Demon should win. Humans should have one victory.
Something I've wondered about since Diablo 3.. Since Humans are the children of Angels and Demons, and Tyreal was able to rip off his wings and become human. Can demons do something similar?
So, after countless years of fighting back the evil forces of darkness, who by the way want nothing more than complete and utter destruction, pain, suffering, endless torment and death, THE ANGELS are STILL fighting for all that is good. And you think THEY DESERVE TO LOSE?? After an eternity of battle ANYONE would be scarred and stained. The effects of war penetrate FAR past the battlefield and afflict everyone, no matter who, no matter where. And because they are battered, you think the angels deserve to lose?? SERIOUSLY??? You would rather the people of sancturary suffer a prolonged extinction and watch as the demons feast on all life INSTEAD of continue to live under the Angels who would ensure peace and annihalation of all evil? This man brings a whole new level of meaning to Devils Advocate.
they don’t fight for all that is good they fight for themselves and their heaven, the people of sanctuary are descendants of the demons or angels who fled from the eternal conflict
@@Midwestemoisme Yeah, but they did agree to leave Sanctuary be and it looks like they intend to honor that pact. Demons otoh, would overrun and Sanctuary and slaughter everyone given the slightest chance.
Diablo 3 has brought a plot-hole on the principle that Angels truly die unlike Demons: Tyreal reforming after being destroyed by the Worldstone's blast. By the very rule of how angelic death is presented to be like, that does not make sense. Unless if the Angiris Council members are the one exception to it, that is. But, if it is, then it is never stated so.
This is a great video, but didn’t they already technically lose in diablo 3 it’d be very disappointing to see blizzard do a different version of that. Not that I’m one to think Lilith would side with the playable character, I personally can’t wait to see what they do with Inarius’s character. One of my theories is that Mephisto, the oldest of the prime evils will be returning as the act 5 boss of D4.
I'd love to see the Nephilem going against both Heaven and Hell, destroying both in the process... at least, Sanctuary would have the Peace it deserved for a long time.
Angels...beings of light that feel contempt for humanity. Some of them wisely chose to aid and guide us. Demons...beings of darkness that see humanity as fodder for their own purposes. Some take a liking to a select few to elevate their current position or to experiment on. Given the choice id choose neither. Their conflict is THEIR problem. When their problem becomes my problem I become THEIR problem.
would be no more fascinating than tyrael and auriel, they rebuild a new and better equipped sky to protect humanity leaving the old sky in ruins and the angels either choose to defend humans or join with lilith
What I don't understand is that, with the worldstone destroyed, there is no reason to mantain the eternal conflict. There is no way to create new worlds and the winner of the next "round" of the conflict will determine the victorious group.
I really wish that the story fo Diablo becomes somewhat related to Spawn. Where we jsut realize there is not good or evil, there needs to be a balance and it cannot be obtained while both exist, so we just get rid of both, as spawn in the end kills God and Satan. I think it will fit since the "eternal conflict" can only happen as long as both exist.
what I don't understand is. why are the angels keep following Imperius? because of his actions heaven is losing. they are acting like they are the human government. "I out rank you. so you follow only me. even when my actions are not that great." that's always been the most dumbest rule. if your leaders keeps making more and more bad choices. it's time to look for a new leader or prove yourself you can do better. he doesn't look back and doesn't regret. that's why there's a thing "learn from your past mistakes" he is so blind it's laughable.
Hm why do we think angels don’t reform like demons? Tyrael reformed after he was “killed” by the worldstone explosion so I would guess the other angels would too
Honestly, having a Diablo game where you can pick between three paths would be cool; Siding with Heaven and managing to convince them that the better good is having the potential for evil and choosing to do the right thing, Siding with Hell and getting that oh so satisfying "Ya shouldn't have done that" feeling when you finally get to wipe the floor with the Angerus Council, then a middle ground ending where you face any and all threats to humanity... demon or angel alike. Perhaps even wiping both out to reset the world.
The angels lost me with that arrogant ass Imperius and as much as Tyrael is a nice guy he is frustratingly inept, can he even hold on to his sword for one damn fight?
Feels like the Blizzard intentionally made angels look dumb and vulnerable. But actually Angles cannot be corrupted, they got no feelings to play with, they serve only God and are not susceptible to sins like arrogance lust or any other. Blizzard serves hell and tries to make demons look better.
I blame the writers lmao. There are points where you can see that angels can be good, like Tyrael and Auriel (when she was captured by the Lord of Despair, everyone on Heaven and Sanctuary felt that. They lost all hope and became severely depressed, giving up because everything seems pointless. So we need her, and Hope.) I actually hate that angels are just as bad as demons now. They're not even really doing anything interesting with it anyway. Heaven and Hell aren't even equals from what we see. The angels are constantly taking L's and being reflected in a negative and unflattering light, pun intended. So you can't, and probably shouldn't, really say that demons aren't evil and that angels aren't good. It kind of spoils the whole Good vs Evil heroic fantasy that make things like this fun and enjoyable.
True, but the Angel's flaws do make them more compelling characters. They feel like beings who can feel, reflect and change (for better or for worse). The demons (with the exception of Lilith) are flat characters, who are just evil for the sake of evil. None of them have had an actual character arc like Tyrael or Inarius. As for them always being portrayed as the losing side, I'd chalk that up mostly to the extremely dark nature of the Diablo franchise, but also the inherent nature of the evil vs good conflict. The forces of good do come out on top often but it's almost always a pyrrhic victory. The massive casualties/destruction that come with success weigh heavy on Sanctuary and Heaven. While for the Hells, losing legions upon legions of demons just to obtain a mere chance at Diablo (or any of the other Evils) succeeding is barely a setback.
@@philw3039 That's a good point. My issue, though, is that the demons are objectively Evil but the angels actually aren't objectively Good. They seem less and less Good over time too. The closest we see to the angels being Good are Tyrael in D2 and D3 (he actually has a lovely speech when he confronts Imperius) and Auriel in D3. Most of the time, they just don't want to interfere and want to preserve the Heavens. That's all fair. But now we're being shown that the angels don't represent Good, but Order. Tyranny, even. They're so committed to it that they actually have a pretty warped mentality sometimes. But again, if there's objective Evil, shouldn't there be objective Good-even a little? The series definitely skews more towards darkness. I guess I'm getting a bit tired of the same old. But I think that they are doing it more and more. Too much imho.
@@robertminnie782 Yeah, I can see why you have that view. I think Diablo draws heavily from Abrahamic religion in which Evil is not the equal but opposite force to Good, but corruption that can result from being imperfect (i.e. not being God). In many accounts, demons and Satan/Lucifer himself are all fallen angels. So while the Prime Evils can represent "absolute" evil (evil, by definition is imperfect), Angels, do not represent absolute good. They are holy, but not perfect beings. I also think Blizzard based the Diablo angels more on Bible Old Testament which is often noted to place heavier emphasis on God's wrath and vengeance and angels were sometimes the ones that carried out that wrath (which could be very harsh). They really play up the "righteous fury" aspect of angels & not the benevolence. Maybe took notes from films like _Dogma_ also. In any case, agree it's really bleak and too edgy sometimes. They could stand to ease up on the Angels being jerkasses so much.
The whole angels part of the lore is bad. Angels - stupid, rash, prideful, un-wise, poor influence over humans Demons - smart, calculating, prideful but on purpose, wise, incredibly corrupting to humans with influence entire orders fail to withstand. The demons are just outright portrayed as superior. The whole portrayal of heaven should never have happened. Things should have been left at - a bunch of angels here and there and tyrael fucking up on a regular basis.
Angels are not perfect but they are far, far, far, far better option then the demons. Its like, what would you like, to have a ich on your back or your head chopped off?
Angels represent Stasis & Good, whereas Demons represent Change & Evil. In a sad but twisted way, Humanity always changes, they never stay the same. In truth, Angels fighting Demons is the Stasis, whereas Humans and Nephs entering in are the Change. Inarius may have been a fool for trusting the Daughter of Hatred, but he wasn't wrong in diminishing the powers of Humanity. If he never had diminished their powers, it would've been fairly easy for evil to win, cause Malthael saw that while they do pick good sometimes, they overwhelmingly choose evil. Now though, with the Nephalim returning, and Humanity knowing that neither side is to their benefit, Imperius has good reason to fear them. One took down not only the combined might of the Demons, but also that same hero took down Malthael who infused those combined souls within himself. If just ONE could do that, then from Imperius' view, imagine the terror of what a thousand could do. With the way things are going in the storyline, The Nephalim may achieve what neither side has been able to do since their birth; the return of the god that made them. But what at what cost? The destruction of Hell & Heaven. May seem unlikely, but seriously, just look at what one Nephalim did in Diablo 3. Hell & Heaven may even unite in fear & desperation. I could see that happening, it was possible with Inarius & Lilith, it could very well happen with both sides in totality.
Looks like they hanged a "in vacation" note on the gates of heaven, the only angel in D4 ended up loosing for sure. Anyone know of any reference to angels in D4 ?
I feel like the reason for why the angels are this way is because Anu purged himself from all of his PERCEIVED imperfections but the ones he never even considered riding himself of was his pride and belief that he could become perfect. In fact by splitting himself in 2 he WEAKENED himself. Instead of facing and accepting his flaws so that he could transcend them he chose to deny those parts of himself and reject them. Because of this the angels believe themselves to be perfect beings and that all other things are at best flawed or at worst corrupt. Meanwhile humanity has the capacity to become far greater because we embrace both sides in their totality. In essence we become what Anu should have been. A correction to a mistake made at the dawn of creation itself. A perfect ending to the full story would be Humanity destroying the Burning Hells once and for all after the Demons win the Eternal Conflict and destroy the Angels.
When mortal races in Babylon-5 series were forced to choose between Vorlons and Shadows representing Order and Chaos respectively, it was one human named John Sheridan who said: We no longer need neither any of you, get the hell off our galaxy! And he gathered every mortal race together to fight both Vorlons and Shadows alike. It's about time for Nephalem and Humans to do the same.
Nah, not a big fan of the whole "well, one angel is corrupted, so lets go ahead and abandon all good and side with (literally) the devil." Thats a flawed reasoning. Cool, I suppose, for a game mechanic, but I've always been that stickler who plays a Paladin or Knight for good. Often times sacrificing my own safety for said good. I don't want the game to turn into a cartoon where evil and good just become game pieces. I want them to remain steadfast on both sides of the line.
2:20 To attack proactivly is not very pure action. Is Cain mistating what happened or was it actuality that the High Heaven sought to fight the Burning Hells? IMHO the only pure action High Heavens have is to defend against the Burning Hells. Although to create one must destroy.
Late to the party, amazing video as always, but I never liked the angels. In diablo 2 Tyrael was a great example of angel, he had that aura of celestial and the fact that he recognized his weak spots(can not directcly aid the humanity , can not be present in the worldstond chamber because Baal blocked his spiritual presence.) He guided the hero and gave some advices. I mean, in diablo 3, the way they are written comes as shallow, and for me at least, angels in diablo 3 do not come off as good, virtuous, majestic. But as arrogant, negligent, sporradic, impulsive. Far from elysian and celestic and close to just the ones who oppose demons, not angelic/good, but as the oposite. When they(in the story) begin to hint at the idea that we are gonna met angels, I expected to see some beings of purity and piety, but we are feed some cardboard types of herors/good guys. There is nothing good in them just the fact that they oppose the demons makes them think of themselfs as the good ones.
Wait. Malthael died, so there should be a new angel replacing him right? Let's just hope whoever it is ain't an idiot like Imperius or Tyrael. (Also wouldn't be cool if Malthael's replacement was a playable angel character?)
I will be glad if d4 will allow players to choose between serving hell or heaven.
You n me both! Team Inarius. Just cuz he's gonna be evil af I reckon
TBH I prefer there to be only hell on earth.
The fight against humanities evil is what Diablo is all about in my book!
...I struggle with having to choose. Why do we have to pick servitude to anyone other than Lilith? She sees her offspring, “us,” as nothing less than something new to be preserved and exalted above heaven and hell. Screw the small minded squabblers!...long live the nephalim and those that defy blind stagnation and give birth to them! Wooooo!!
No Gods no masters, I want the Wild Card ending from New Vegas lol.
...If we choose hell do we get alone time with Andariel? XD...
It's not a choice between heaven and hell, it's a choice between angels who may hate you but generally leaves you alone and demons who actively try to eat your face.
The games aren't about saving the Heavens, but about beating back threats to Sanctuary.
Nice take!
But in the end Imperious or more so his infinite pride is the biggest threat to the Sanctuary.
I would agree it is clear that your only allied with the angels at the end of the game because of your shared enemy in Lilith, inarius has no intent on working with the character and the horadrim and actively tried to thwart our efforts
Reminds me of Republicans and democrats.
Angels hate humans because they are vile, disgusting, and made in the image of Lilith and Inarius (two narcissists), people just pretend it's for no reason but from the angels point of view sanctuary is a disgusting biological cess pool that should never have existed. Inarius realizes this but it's too late
For two reasons:
1. They underestimated both the demons and human beings.
2. They did NOT cooperate with humans against demons...
Truth
@@DarkLOREDash
Indeed
3. Imperius
@@warlockgnome1015 4. Letting Imperius lead them
@@jamesroad316 5. Not letting Auriel lead them instead to pursue actual angel ideals
Considering the recent track record of Blizzard, the ones who are going to end up losing, is us.
Damn. Fair though
Do you guys not have phones?
Do we not have offline modes? No. So that means if you wanna do Solo play, you need a very stable and powerful internet connection. You will also have to have something else to do while waiting in line to play Solo. I think offline options would help keep the ever clogged servers less so if someone wants to play Solo, saving space for multiplayer (s).
That was a lot of introspection for a "why imperious is an idiot 2.0" video. Most of the angels were cool with humanity/nephilim. Or at least the honored the vote
He was the main catalyst, however Tyrael has shown to fumble things numerous times as well as the other angels, including Malthael abandoning his post. Its a bit of a wash
Imperius himself, although utterly disgust with the very concept of mankind, honored the vote and the council as a whole. And he is even a very emotional one, far from any
self-discipline paragon. Yet he never moved on his own, never actually attack human, not take a move on the nephilim even at the very moment the heaven falls, and even provide help and cooperation with the nephilim when it is needed. Also even he knew Malthael is beyond salvation, and he bears the title of the aspect of valor, and he already admit that Malthael is more of a threat than a brother, he still just can't attack Malthael by himself. Of course all these features of Imperius might below the standard of being something close to divinity, but that also makes him a good character. Tyrael on the other hand, despite all his good intentions, what he did is trade almost all his power yet still not get help from the heaven at all. To me, that's something much closer to be classfied as "idiot". I really hope Tyrael could get ascension once again in D4, or at least show us the new archangel of justice.
It seems that you forgot about this but the reason Malthael was unharmed by Tyreals sword was because he existed in another death like state, we had this whole section of the campaign where we had too also get into that same state
Yep
Imperious isn't wrong to accuse the nephalem and Tyrael for Diablo's invasion. Adria was setting it all up right under their noses and they were dumb enough to trust her. Basically everyone does stupid stuff in Diablo 3, let's be honest. The only reason the nephalem come out on top are because they are overpowered.
Demons remain all loyal while angels and many of them go rouge or betrays their party like Tyrael's liutenant which we encountered at D2 and D3 when the prime evil revived him just to mock tyrael
Well as loyal as demons go. They all do have their own agendas after all. With the backstabbing, the cloak and daggers, an the corrupting...
Is there no "supreme being" watching over the angels? Who are the angels answerable to? They Sure don't act very loyal.
@@yurikendal4868 I guess Anu was that Supreme being but he dead
@@latarshahall7618 that blames the devil writers, it seems mediocre, it seems that they write the story separately from each game and without building their world or their concepts in a coherent way, it has the same problem as the disney star wars, continuity errors
It seems the both the Angels and the High Heavens are finally paying for their _we're beyond all pain and suffering_ attitude...
I want a neutral Nephalem. One that slays Angels and Demons for the good of humanity
Anyone and anything that poses a threat.
That's literally a necromancer. They keep the balance between light and dark. Good and evil. The true neutrals.
Right like Lilith is correct we should be siding with her
You mean d3?
Diablo 3?
iiiiiii crrryyyyyy when angels deserve to diiiiieeeeee
I wanted to put that song in but knew I'd be copyrighted out the ass
LOL was about to sing that
I came in the comment just to see who are true fans hehehe
Syndrome of the Down
@@clayboyce7533 lol
Did you even play Diablo 3? The Angels pretty much lost and heaven was almost all but destroyed. The only victor in that storyline was the nephilim.
It wasn't all too horrible until Malthael showed his edginess
It's the guddamn monks, if u run a full haste set u can use its invulnerable skill/spell at all times, tanking shitload of monsters and never dying.
@@vangxiong9643 woah lord ok I only ever played wizard
Isn't it interesting how in the beginning, hell is plagued with infighting and heaven is resolute (with the possible exception of tyrael), and as the series progresses, hell achieves more consolidation and heaven starts to suffer more and more infighting.
the issue with knowing, true knowing, that you are the embodiment of everything light and good, is that you never believe you have any flaws, even if they exist... the evils never have to deny themselves as anything else, because all their actions seem to embody evil regardless, but how do you fight an eternal conflict on the side of light, and still keep that perspective with everything that war represents... if the story of Anu is solidified as cannon, then the Nephalem is the reunification of what Anu was always meant to be before the separation... I find the story which has been told numerous times about an all powerful being splitting off from themselves the "evil" within to become pure, when they made this decision, the "evil" aspect of themselves was still apart of themselves, which means the decision was made in unity with consideration from the "pure" side of the being, and the "evil" side of the being, another consideration is that context is everything here, how is one to know they have imperfections of evil, if they have no grounds for comparison, whose to say the good isn't the evil, and the good is the imperfections observed, what do the angels do with captured demons, imprisonment is a form of torture as well, despite what people say...
What I want to see is the demons actually taking on virtuous traits, just as the Angel's are taking on non virtuous traits, or evil traits. Like the presence of humanity has somehow infected them.
I would like to come across demons and angels that don't want to fight or just both helping people and ether side of the team. like the goatman from the 1st game he doesn't want to fight. it shows not every demon and angel are out to get us and each other. also showing they can get along if they just try to make things work between the two.
@@rickydiscord7671 It seems to me that all of the diablo universe centers around an attempt at balance. It would make sense for any creation regardless of origin, to try to find their own balance.
Take a look at diablo - he repeatedly dies for the greater good and cares for his brothers. So far in the lore the three have never betrayed each other. Mephisto sacrifices himself to give Diablo and Baal time and Baal finally attempts to take revenge for his brothers. Diablo is shown to be level headed and cunning, always playing the long game and making contingency plans. In contrast to the angels who act like 12 years old emos, I quite like him.
@@rickydiscord7671I mean that was essentially sanctuary
I mean, isn't that kind of Lilith's whole thing? She wants to save sanctuary and humanity from the eternal conflict and that's her whole purpose behind the events of D4
This is poor reasoning. You’re evaluating heaven and hell by two different metrics, coming to the conclusion that heaven fails to be perfect, and then damning it.
I instantly like your videos because I've finally found someone whose interest in the Diablo lore far exceeds my own - your passion is evident from the first few words you utter and I can't help but smash the like button! As a side bonus, the content itself is always superb. Your channel has become my favourite on RUclips very rapidly indeed :)
Thank you very much, you're too kind!
What I'd really like to see: when they inevitably release the holy based class (paladin, crusader, etc) that they release a burning hells aligned class. The closest human I can think of to this would be Adria the Witch, so perhaps a class similar to that, but there is a ton of overlap between that and the necromancer which is decidedly not hell aligned in lore.
Id love to side with the prime evils, however I feel like even if you choose one of the evils you are STILL enemies to the others. Or at the very least very shakey allies(They don't really work together, at least not like angels. For example baal and mephisto had a clap fest when baal wanted to kill lilith.) Hell Id like to choose what side I go with, and get to change in appearance as I continued down the path. (some fable esq stuff.)
Definitely agree. Would be fun, though!
Why would you want to play as an evil character? Who wants to be a villain. Lame..
Maybe an opportunity to side with lilith
We've most often been fighting the demons, it's about time the angels got their turn.
Agree
Angels have done nothing against humanity. Demons have. It's the demons who constantly try to use humanity while angels were going to stay out of it. Angels are not "evil" in Diablo despite what some idiots say "angels are just as bad as demons". No, they're not. The problem is that either side must balance out the other. Killing angels would tip the balance of power to the demons. Why would you want to do that? I'm genuinely tired of dorks in the Diablo community being edgy and saying they want to fight angels. This isn't a god damn supernatural episode.
I suggest to play Bayonetta then. Diablo is a game where heroes go against evil (be it with or without angels). I do believe this is a staple feature of the whole instalment
I really hope that we can be a rogue angel or a demon (succubi) in D4. It would be interesting to see the reaction of people of a succubii saving people, or an angel that just kills for fun.
They never do so, after all Diablo series is hack and slash, and not a philosophical journey. We all see, that siding with heavens is a pure vanity, while Lilith is more reasonable, yet, we as players have no choice in this matter, because all of it was already prescripted (linear)... a pity.
@@rohenthar8449 well let me dream at least ^_^
@@rohenthar8449Lilith isn’t more reasonable, just has more character than what we’ve seen in a while. But from our characters point of view and not our own, Lilith is a monster going on a massacre and must be stopped.
I feel like the Angiris Council still believes that “there is no problem” with the actions of Imperious. I don’t believe that none of them could be stronger than the other. Which brings me to what I want to happen next in the Diablo story line... and I want to start that with a question... Who here is pissed off with the 3 of the angels playing god on their own behalf without the other 2 knowing?... the conversations always happen between Tyriel talking to Imperious and to Malthiel. It seems like one plays the role of a savior, without repercussions; an indomitable god figure who falls due to hubris; and, crazed god without concern for the sanctity of his actions.
With all of these 3 running amok its no wonder why the high heavens lost. I am wondering why did Auriel and Itheriel did not make a move before hand... is it in the hopes of believing in Imperious or the angiris council? Or is it in the written record of fate? Safe to say, seeing their actions in D3, I believe that they would have a better relationship with the nephilim if it weren’t for Imperious. I do agree that the angels must die... but just the 3 who keeps on deciding without the unity of the others... I feel like it must not only stop there, the crystal arch must be destroyed to make a new angel that could be a game changer for the series.
Just imagine... with the defeat of both Valor and Justice... Hope kept it together... if just as what you said is true that Itheriel is shattered, hence his inability to lead... i feel like its high time to change his aspect to “Faith”. With the reconstruction of the heaven for the second time... a new angel... a more humble and caring one will be born a new with the virtue it holds as “Love”... as you can see, with Love (or rather Mercy and Piety rolled into one) leading the fray and changing the whole category of the eternal conflict by swaying the nephilim to its peaceful way... things could change drastically... hells wont be as enticing with something like this spearheading the high heavens.
Auriel and Ithariel do not do anything not because of their double standards as a pseudo symbolism of a realistic god, the writers of Diablo seem to be stupid and lazy in ideas with the potential to use them as guardian angels of humanity and with Tyrael to create the new heaven to protect humanity against demons, but those who write the devil lore seem to forget their own characters just like the star wars disney movies, wasted potential
@@omarvidal3543 I know right?! The potentials they could have played and expanded with could have seriously made the entire game more enticing than what was given.
The story writing of D3 was quite sloppy. It had too much loose ends. they made the burning hells as god tier rulers who can basically do what ever they want while they demoted the heavenly host unto this terrible band of 5 cry babies who can't even agree on something properly. Not to mention work as a unit worthy to be called as the "angelic host" let alone "angelic"...
They made each angel unto this overly simplified creature unworthy to be called an angel. The major thing that irks me is the eternal conflict has been called the eternal conflict with the heavens having a finite amount of angels while the demons infinite... and still drag the conflict for forever... it only shows how powerful those alleged angels are... which they have poorly represented in the games.
Like seriously. Has no one ever thought about the power struggle that has happened for forever now with only a finite amount of individual creature vs... an infinite amount of creatures? It absolutely makes no sense whatsoever... its pretty obvious what makes angels angels. They do what's right. Always. They don't have free will to resist to do what's right. That's what makes the writing part hard... how are they to make something as perfect as the word angel work. Its either an angel is doing all good or the complete opposite. Sucks for 3 of those angels doing what they're not suppose to.
I like this idea.
I agree with almost everything you said except for a "love angel" because it sounds like you basically want a Jesus type Angel to lead to the heavens which in theory sounds like a good idea but in reality it's won't work.
I can't see a love angel disembowelling a demon. Jesus himself kissed the cheek of the guy that had him killed. "Love thy neighbour" love diablo?
Maybe many do start out like that but over time through blood and destruction become jaded.
I think its better to just destroy heaven and hell and hope humanity survives.
@@ANTICARBONTAX Hmm, you have a point. The creative side of me is telling me that “that” peaceful power can be equally tenacious if produced correctly in a hack and slash game. Diablo is still a hack and slash game after all… but imagine this, the jesus type angel becomes an extreme threat to the legions of hell for he is able to convert hell spawns to “converts”. Any converts who then fight for heaven is able to mark killed unconverted demons to a power source for the crystal arch. As i recall, the devs made the heavens and the hells polar opposite in this game, heaven being finite while hell being infinite. That jesus type angel becomes an equalizer for he is able to produce that infinite power source for heaven.
You see, being “loving” does not mean being a flat character who is unable to fight. A good embodiment just like valor and wisdom, imperious and malathiel were highly susceptible to exterior threats that can easily destroy what they stand for. Being an angel of love, that angel could perhaps also stand for mercy. What other mercy is there than to give anyone he encounters a chance to life? If not a power source for heaven, then a choice to what they want to be. A demon can be a convert to fight for heaven, or they could be unconverted and be presented a chance to live as something else that does not bind them to their previous beings, or they could go back to being demons. Become a new race perhaps, the fay, probably… I mean, have you not noticed, almost all iterations and expansions revolve on reusing old ideas, it gets boring. How many butchers have we encountered? King leoric is still a boss. The scrawny smart boss is still there (lazarus, mephisto, belial)… the tanky ones never left (duriel, uriel and azmodeous).
My point is, i hope the game becomes interesting, much more interesting than simply providing better graphics and reiterated concepts. I understand that they can’t veer away from the Diabloesque aesthetic and concept… but please give us something more… crazier and wilder… don’t you want that too?
Also if the high heavens refuse to side with humanity against a common enemy, I think it's high time we become the third power in this endless war
Basically what happens in Sin War. Until Uldyssian hit the hard reboot button, and the Worldstone was altered to nuke our powers.
But now that the Worldstone is gone.... :)
*common enemy
@@gosthesoulthief7411 thx
I’m glad that they’ve not shown Diablo yet. It’s a nice mystery that I’m looking forward to finding out (what he looks like, that is)
Great video mate
That's true for sure & thank you!
Uh i hope Diablo looks more masculin this time, again. FemDiablo looked weard on a bad way.
@@ritter06 don't lie, he was cute. Haha
Tyreal was killed when he destroyed the worldstone, and iirc, 20 years later was reformed in the crystal arch, so maybe no guarantee that the decimation of the angels would lead to a brand new council and personalities.
"The resultant explosion dispersed the light and harmony of my angelic being. Without form or shape, I restored myself within the realm of Pandemonium."
It doesn't sound like Tyrael actually died and he did not reform in the crystal arch, he reformed in Pandemonium.
good background listening while playing me some Wolcen, good stuff buddy
My pleasure mate
Fantastic stuff as always! Imperious is a complete moron, but I would love to wield his reforged spear in Diablo IV.
Ohhhh that'd take a dying star & cheers!
That would be badass! Imagine if you could pull a "Corvis Glave" on Imperius!
You are overlooking two angels. Hope and Fate. Hope already has sided with humanity and helps as she can. Fate seems to be changing, as he decided to trust in the Nephilim over his prophecy. Who knows what Fate will become since the destiny he foresaw has already been thwarted once, much to his relief. Imperius isn't truly the ruler of heaven, he just acts like he is. It is all too likely Imperius will fall, to pride and fear.
I serve the Balance.
It's worth noting that of all 4 Cardinal Virtues (Wisdom, Justice, Courage, & Temperance) represented on the Council in the High Heavens the one that is not present is Temperance...
For Rathma
You forgot to mention about how Tyrael was the only angel to re-coalesce after being slain.
Such a good word. Re coalesce
If tyrael does not return in Diablo 4, does not return his angelic form, does not return saving humanity or the hero he chooses in an important mission or confronting a dangerous demon with a cinematic, I swear by Anu, I will not buy this game
Yeah that was my thought too. He "died" when the Worldstone exploded and reformed with the Crystal Arch. So.... was it a "new" Tyrael that decided to become mortal later or the exact same angel? That's probably something that will be lost in story or retconned later I think.
@@endoraroberts Tyrael was actually reformed in pandemonium for some reason.
"The resultant explosion dispersed the light and harmony of my angelic being. Without form or shape, I restored myself within the realm of Pandemonium."
When reading that it doesn't sound like Tyrael actually properly died when he destroyed the world stone but that he had more of a Sauron thing going on where his physical form was destroyed but he could rebuild it over some time.
@@supernus8684 my guess is that even destroyed physically the world stone still had ultimate power over the spirit, so when he did that, the world stones fragmented but innate properties brought him back.
it is used to create worlds after all.
I wish Humanity and the Heavens could work together, but they can not let go of the fact that humans are part demon.
Great video, but the only thing I would add to is at 13:19 we should keep in mind that Tyrael did indeed DIE at the end of D2, his body shattered along with the Worldstone. His "soul" or "essence" was obviously eternal, or at least able to be renewed into a new form near 20 or so years later. I would assume from that, in the event an Angel or at least and Arch-Angel dies that their spirit and body is remade in the crystal arch over a decade or more. It does indeed take time, it's not a fast process. But even without speculation, what happen to Tyrael gives us an idea of what at least happens to Arch-Angels when they die. :)
Imperius has been hinted heavily he may become Wrath. The high heaven may get tinted from within?
I did read a bit of lore that stated the crystal Arch was darkened because of Diablo's presence. Tyrael sensed it and thats why he fled the heavens with the soul stone
*tainted
13:10 yes, they do, the Angiris Council at least, Tyrael is living proof of this, and he states this himself in Diablo 3; by his own account, angels, or, at least, the Angiris Council, like any prime evil, die and their essence wanders about untill it's reborn, so no, angels don't die for good, and as such, expect Malthael to come back at some point for the same reason, because for some stupid reason their essence cannot be destroyed; as a matter of fact, Tyrael states this twice, the first one is when he is recolecting the destruction of the world stone "after it (the destruction of the soul stone), my mind (essence) wandered for what felt like an eternity" or something along those lines, and the other is when you ask him how he feels about being a mortal and he replies "you know that you will die, and that is a big difference", meaning angels never really die, besides, if the whole "dying for good" did really affect angels, the whole point of Tyrael's betrayal of the High Heaven and his fall as a mortal would be rendered moot, at least, instead of the "sacrilege" that Imperius so condescendingly says when Tyrael takes off his wings, he'd say something like "you fool, that won't do shit for you!"; so, no, angels don't die for good, like all prime evils, the angiris council will all be reborn if slain in battle, except for Tyrael, who is now a mortal and can die for good now; also, as a bonus, same goes for fallen angels, Izual was killed in Diablo 2 and came back in Diablo 3, and, as shown in Diablo 2, he still has angelic essence.
By the way, your own video shows him saying this between 8:21 and 8:31 so your own point is rendered moot by your own video. Congrats?
Edit: I have no clue where you took that info from, but if Tyrael is now the aspect of wisdom, that is because he was apointed as such, and thus Malthael, who will be reborn as I've explained before (unless he's an exception to the rule for some freaking reason), will be given another aspect, the most likely of cases is that he lost the aspect of wisdom and became the aspect of death before his self-imposed exile, though why death is an aspect at all, I cannot tell, death does not seem to be a virtue, but something else...
Malthael corrupted his own essence. So it is possible he won't be reborn. At least not as an angel. He, ironically, is far closer to being a nephilum than an angel. As are all the angels that followed him. It is odd that it is hell and the demons that maintain their purity while heaven and the angels seem to constantly have a problem with becoming some impure variant.
@@jacobfreeman5444 True, he might not come back as an angel.
About hell keeping their "purity" while heaven loses it, it's expected, really, as Adria states it in RoS, demons are more accepting, less rigid, in other words, demons bend before they break, angels break before they bend. This strectiness is the one biggest weakness angels have, and that is why Inarius, and only Inarius, ever succeeded in accomplishing peace, he was willing to bend, to accept, to change, shortlived as it may have been, it was peace nonetheless, no other angel ever did this.
It's stated in multiple places including more recent books that angels do not reform in the Crystal Arch but are replaced by new angels that come from it. Tyrael reforming in Pandemonium is unprecedented and it has not yet been explained how it happened, but it supposedly will be in Diablo Immortal. So yeah... you and those that upvoted you are wrong.
@@ScorchHellfire I have the Book of Cain and it does not mention this at all, in fact, there is another mention to "angels don't die like humans do", and then there is logic...
In fact, the only mention about angels dying for good is in the book Storm of Light, and nowhere else. I'll have to read that book, because EVERYWHERE ELSE point towards angels coming back, and if only the book mentions that, and nothing else, we can safely use "death of the author" to chalk that up to an honest mistake.
Why? Angels not coming back would lead to several problems with lore and dialog existing within the games, that are supposed to be "more cannon", and quite a few plotholes due to logical missleading and flatout errors. For instance, the whole eternal conflict and the creation of Sanctuary would be nonsensical at best, for the angel army can never reach the prowess of the demon army by any stretch of the imagination, for demons are constantly in-fighting and are reborn, while angels are constantly at peace and die for good, they can never achieve the same amount of experience, and if the angels are so strong that they have never lost, thus no new angels were needed, the creation of Sanctuary is rendered moot, why flee when you just can't lose?
Edit: and please, never mention a chinese mobile cashcrab made out of re-skining other games as a source of lore, be it past, present, future or otherwise, your point is rendered moot by this alone.
I would think that if killed by a Nephilim that got the power of death itself it erases ones existence as again they become an aspect of death to kill Malthael as only a aspect could kill let alone harm a aspect of death as every other injury type of thing would pass right on through
I think it will be more appropriate to say angels are agents of change since when they died, they basically get reincarnated without their former memories. The entire cadre of angels will eventually change due to attrition and that can bring new ideas, new ways, new perspectives. Even Tyrael gained new perspectives from observing the humans. The demons OTOH, simply reformed with their memories and power intact. They don't really change in that way.
If I was given the choice. I would spare neither side. I'd push Angels and Demons out of Sanctuary, lock them up in their realms and let them rot, forever. Humans have endured enough suffering by both sides, and are well rid of them.
It makes sense that when we loose faith, we gravitate toward strength for protection, hence the loss of Wisdom giving way to Valor, but it's still something the angels should have been able to see beyond, given how hard-headed and self-righteous Imperious (the name is a bit on the nose, even for the audience) was shown to be.
If MOTHER asks and Empowers me, I'll do it myself.
Tyrael's sword passed through Malthael because he was the Aspect of Death, and nothing can hurt him, not even the Nephalem themselves. The Nephalem first had to touch Death and undergo a physical change to be able to even touch him.
So it had nothing to do with pure or impure intent.
This story has me wondering about several things. First and foremost Anu. In the depiction of him, I could see the 5 spikes of his crown being the 5 aspects of the High Heavens creating what would become in Angelis Council. Though most concerning, and a possible twist for a 5th Diablo Chapter (since the 4th is more or less done at time of me writing this comment; compared to the 2 years prior to when this video was created). The Worldstone was called "The Eye of Anu"...So what happened to the other Eye?! Could there be another Eye of Anu? An Eye like the previous that could cause change? In several other game media lores, various games concerning "eyes" have ones for creation and the others for destruction. Though Anu was supposed to be all the "good" aspects of the pearl, it would reason that his second eye has to be somewhere. Perhaps in the void? Perhaps Lilith has kept information concerning this 2nd Eye hidden from all, especially her angel husband for which she could never really trust. Could this 2nd eye be another eye of creation to create more worlds of paradise, or could it possible destroy all the former worlds to reunite Tiamat and Anu back together. Some form of apocalypse for Angel and Demon alike. The Demons and Angels call their war the Enteral Conflict. Maybe this 2nd Eye could recreate the pearl?!
I dont think Angels deserve to lose. Just Imperius himself. Others were grateful and supportive of the Nephelim
I've always loved the lack of ambiguity presumed by people when it comes to "pure intent" the assumption is it's "good" but that's not really the caveat here. Malthael wasn't conflicted in his conviction, he was all in, entirely devoted to wiping out humanity. His intents to kill humanity was in other words "pure" in that it wasn't a guess or morally objectionable to Malthael he was entirely certain and entirely at peace with this task. Where Tyrael is constantly conflicted that saving humanity over and over at the expense of his fellow angels and constantly falling for the geniuses of Hell's machinations...Malthael sees this is the only way to end the conflict, his goals and intentions were all set and acceptable without any...exceptions.
i dont think its about them losing but for them changing its entire angiris council , remember if one of them dies , he gets replaced by a new born angel who is a complete different being that the one before , thusfor i think the first step heaven is doeing is closing its gates because they are preparing for the arival of 2 new members as a replacement for malthael and tyrael , 2 members breaks away from the stasis heaven currently has , i am sure imperius will be replaced too , maybe even by inarius himself
I have been playing Diablo 3 for a month now...i dont know why so many gamers hate it...but as for me as Diablo fan since...i love trilogy and i have no problem with the story.
It's because they're salty fanboys. They were hoping for a another version of Diablo 2 but they didn't get it so they complain about everything instead.
@@davidarbogast37 as for me every version of Diablo is fine with me...as long as i can hack and slash every monster and build anything i can in the game...and the storyline also is fine with me...
Isn't the whole point of the Diablo universe that the fight between Heaven and Hell will *never* end? That there's no magical fix or happy ending? No matter how strong or weak one side becomes, the other side will gain new allies, or make a blunder, and the"Eternal Conflict" will continue.
It isn't a matter of the angels being big dumb dumbs where they should've been more careful or intelligent - they will always fall into traps or gain reinforcements depending on what the demons do.
I'm hoping to see the game where humans see that they can take over either realm of heaven and hell. What happens when Diablo has to give up the spot of top demon to a human? what happens when what heaven losing really means is that, a human rules heaven and it no longer is what it once was?
Unlikely. People already whined the Nephalem of 3 were too powerful.
New thought, Anu cast out that which was "unpure" and Angel are born and die and a new Angel is born. But demons are reborn over and over again. Maybe Angel's can't be reborn because they become unpure as they live. New angels are only born when heaven is in harmony. Heaven isn't in harmony, thus not pure anymore, so no New pure angels and the angels that exist are tainted by hell.
Would be neat if the player characters choose to serve only Sanctuary and wipe out any threat, Demon OR Angel
Yeah I HATED how we just bowed to Inarius. After learning about what he did the nephalim, his own creations, and his own family I kinda hate the character
_"Inarius is a MORON."_
Imperius: _"Hold my Solarion."_
How did tyrael come back if he died in the ending cinematic of D2? Or did he go in thinking he was going to die, and survived?
He was the first ever case! Then he cast off the ol immortality
Did he die though? I lived Diablo 2 for over a year and I don't ever recall him dying
It's more implied that his physical form as destroyed and it took him 20 years to reform and go back ot Heaven only to shed his immortality and join humanity. Least that's my understanding of it.
I thought the Anu story was an allegory of their existence too. Almost like it's their own religious belief without any proof like our own religious beliefs today.
Nice thought!
I would not say there is no proof, rather what one considers proof varies greatly from person to person. I happen to see proof, you dont, who is right? Its all relative and very much subjective and that's the problem which prevents anyone from knowing for certain.
Angels are just the more polite and tidy version of demons.
watching a couple videos you have repeatedly stated that Tyrials blade didn't hurt matheal because it can only hurt those it deams unjust. Tyrials blade couldn't hurt matheal because he had gained the aspect of death. The nepheliem also would not have been able to stop matheal had the nepheliem also had not got an aspect of death as without it Matheal could be touched by no weapon. Unless I am mistaken you are someone who actually studies the lore where as I just play the games but from what I could tell even if the blade thought matheal was unjust it still would not have been able to hurt him
I can see a Nephilim wanting to destroy both Heaven and Hell to finally put a end to them interfering with Humanity and to not be a constant threat of eradicating Humanity as Death almost did so both threats needs to be dealt with
Honestly this is why I like Diablo's lore. Is not angels are good and demons bad, they are all bad cause they both want to destroy humanity. I also hope Blizzard gives us the opportunity to chose, I would love to bring Imperius down to its knees, and also wreck Tyrael for being so stupid.
TechYK , yup. We’ve had our go at hell. Now it’s the angels’ turn for their petulance.
The Angels that actually helped (Tyreal, archangel of fate and hope) should be spared when heaven would fall and the eternal conflict would end.
As long as we get Tyrael back I'm good.
D4 should be Humans playing Angles and Demons off each other to only commit genocide on both sides as revenge and then humans falling apart into tribalism and racism as a commentary on the World Wars.
Would be cool in my mind. Neither Angel or Demon should win. Humans should have one victory.
Humans won in Diablo 3
@@davidarbogast37 The Angles won there, Humanity was a tool to their own ends.
William Walsh the angels were fighting with the main character not really a tool.
Because of your words at the end of this video, im almost surprised that we didnt fight along side lilith in diablo 4
Something I've wondered about since Diablo 3.. Since Humans are the children of Angels and Demons, and Tyreal was able to rip off his wings and become human. Can demons do something similar?
Well, demons already did that much longer before angel did. Live among human, control them behind the shadow without showing his monster form.
So, after countless years of fighting back the evil forces of darkness, who by the way want nothing more than complete and utter destruction, pain, suffering, endless torment and death, THE ANGELS are STILL fighting for all that is good. And you think THEY DESERVE TO LOSE??
After an eternity of battle ANYONE would be scarred and stained.
The effects of war penetrate FAR past the battlefield and afflict everyone, no matter who, no matter where.
And because they are battered, you think the angels deserve to lose?? SERIOUSLY???
You would rather the people of sancturary suffer a prolonged extinction and watch as the demons feast on all life INSTEAD of continue to live under the Angels who would ensure peace and annihalation of all evil?
This man brings a whole new level of meaning to Devils Advocate.
they don’t fight for all that is good they fight for themselves and their heaven, the people of sanctuary are descendants of the demons or angels who fled from the eternal conflict
@@Midwestemoisme Yeah, but they did agree to leave Sanctuary be and it looks like they intend to honor that pact. Demons otoh, would overrun and Sanctuary and slaughter everyone given the slightest chance.
Imperius is valor no more, he is wrath incarnate
the Nephalem will wipe both sides from existence eventually its only a matter of time.
Diablo 3 has brought a plot-hole on the principle that Angels truly die unlike Demons: Tyreal reforming after being destroyed by the Worldstone's blast.
By the very rule of how angelic death is presented to be like, that does not make sense. Unless if the Angiris Council members are the one exception to it, that is. But, if it is, then it is never stated so.
Would it be possible that Imperious would join Lilith in Diablo IV?
This is a great video, but didn’t they already technically lose in diablo 3 it’d be very disappointing to see blizzard do a different version of that. Not that I’m one to think Lilith would side with the playable character, I personally can’t wait to see what they do with Inarius’s character. One of my theories is that Mephisto, the oldest of the prime evils will be returning as the act 5 boss of D4.
I'd love to see the Nephilem going against both Heaven and Hell, destroying both in the process... at least, Sanctuary would have the Peace it deserved for a long time.
Original tyrael voice was so much cooler than the new one
If diablo 3 showed us anything it showed us the angels are split on helping humanity so perfect opportunity to make them a playable class!
will you do the horadric staff video in parts or make the whole staff in 1 video?
That's a great question. Depends on the length!
🤣 good one
Angels...beings of light that feel contempt for humanity. Some of them wisely chose to aid and guide us. Demons...beings of darkness that see humanity as fodder for their own purposes. Some take a liking to a select few to elevate their current position or to experiment on. Given the choice id choose neither. Their conflict is THEIR problem. When their problem becomes my problem I become THEIR problem.
would be no more fascinating than tyrael and auriel, they rebuild a new and better equipped sky to protect humanity leaving the old sky in ruins and the angels either choose to defend humans or join with lilith
Me when some people even like Imperius:
"Your preference is trash"
Agree
What I don't understand is that, with the worldstone destroyed, there is no reason to mantain the eternal conflict. There is no way to create new worlds and the winner of the next "round" of the conflict will determine the victorious group.
except demons come back far quicker & are far more numerous than the host of the light.
I really wish that the story fo Diablo becomes somewhat related to Spawn. Where we jsut realize there is not good or evil, there needs to be a balance and it cannot be obtained while both exist, so we just get rid of both, as spawn in the end kills God and Satan. I think it will fit since the "eternal conflict" can only happen as long as both exist.
The path of the necromancer
I rather see the nephalim slay both angels and demons to do what is needed for the greater good. Similar to darksiders
what I don't understand is. why are the angels keep following Imperius? because of his actions heaven is losing. they are acting like they are the human government. "I out rank you. so you follow only me. even when my actions are not that great." that's always been the most dumbest rule. if your leaders keeps making more and more bad choices. it's time to look for a new leader or prove yourself you can do better. he doesn't look back and doesn't regret. that's why there's a thing "learn from your past mistakes" he is so blind it's laughable.
Hm why do we think angels don’t reform like demons?
Tyrael reformed after he was “killed” by the worldstone explosion so I would guess the other angels would too
In a war, inflexibility is the key to certain defeat.
Honestly, having a Diablo game where you can pick between three paths would be cool; Siding with Heaven and managing to convince them that the better good is having the potential for evil and choosing to do the right thing, Siding with Hell and getting that oh so satisfying "Ya shouldn't have done that" feeling when you finally get to wipe the floor with the Angerus Council, then a middle ground ending where you face any and all threats to humanity... demon or angel alike. Perhaps even wiping both out to reset the world.
The angels lost me with that arrogant ass Imperius and as much as Tyrael is a nice guy he is frustratingly inept, can he even hold on to his sword for one damn fight?
Feels like the Blizzard intentionally made angels look dumb and vulnerable. But actually Angles cannot be corrupted, they got no feelings to play with, they serve only God and are not susceptible to sins like arrogance lust or any other. Blizzard serves hell and tries to make demons look better.
The Druid looks like fun to play!
Instead of preparing myself for season 23 I am watching Your videos lke a madman.
Imperius Ruled The Heavens Alone, Auriel and Itherael Aren't Always Present and Tyrael and Malthael Departed
They made Tyrael the Archangel of Wisdom, they deserve to lose.
I blame the writers lmao.
There are points where you can see that angels can be good, like Tyrael and Auriel (when she was captured by the Lord of Despair, everyone on Heaven and Sanctuary felt that. They lost all hope and became severely depressed, giving up because everything seems pointless. So we need her, and Hope.)
I actually hate that angels are just as bad as demons now. They're not even really doing anything interesting with it anyway.
Heaven and Hell aren't even equals from what we see. The angels are constantly taking L's and being reflected in a negative and unflattering light, pun intended.
So you can't, and probably shouldn't, really say that demons aren't evil and that angels aren't good. It kind of spoils the whole Good vs Evil heroic fantasy that make things like this fun and enjoyable.
True, but the Angel's flaws do make them more compelling characters. They feel like beings who can feel, reflect and change (for better or for worse). The demons (with the exception of Lilith) are flat characters, who are just evil for the sake of evil. None of them have had an actual character arc like Tyrael or Inarius. As for them always being portrayed as the losing side, I'd chalk that up mostly to the extremely dark nature of the Diablo franchise, but also the inherent nature of the evil vs good conflict. The forces of good do come out on top often but it's almost always a pyrrhic victory. The massive casualties/destruction that come with success weigh heavy on Sanctuary and Heaven. While for the Hells, losing legions upon legions of demons just to obtain a mere chance at Diablo (or any of the other Evils) succeeding is barely a setback.
@@philw3039 That's a good point. My issue, though, is that the demons are objectively Evil but the angels actually aren't objectively Good. They seem less and less Good over time too. The closest we see to the angels being Good are Tyrael in D2 and D3 (he actually has a lovely speech when he confronts Imperius) and Auriel in D3.
Most of the time, they just don't want to interfere and want to preserve the Heavens. That's all fair.
But now we're being shown that the angels don't represent Good, but Order. Tyranny, even. They're so committed to it that they actually have a pretty warped mentality sometimes.
But again, if there's objective Evil, shouldn't there be objective Good-even a little?
The series definitely skews more towards darkness. I guess I'm getting a bit tired of the same old. But I think that they are doing it more and more. Too much imho.
@@robertminnie782 Yeah, I can see why you have that view. I think Diablo draws heavily from Abrahamic religion in which Evil is not the equal but opposite force to Good, but corruption that can result from being imperfect (i.e. not being God). In many accounts, demons and Satan/Lucifer himself are all fallen angels. So while the Prime Evils can represent "absolute" evil (evil, by definition is imperfect), Angels, do not represent absolute good. They are holy, but not perfect beings.
I also think Blizzard based the Diablo angels more on Bible Old Testament which is often noted to place heavier emphasis on God's wrath and vengeance and angels were sometimes the ones that carried out that wrath (which could be very harsh). They really play up the "righteous fury" aspect of angels & not the benevolence. Maybe took notes from films like _Dogma_ also. In any case, agree it's really bleak and too edgy sometimes. They could stand to ease up on the Angels being jerkasses so much.
I wonder if Tyrael gained some kind of ability from the world stone when he destroyed it
Well, not all Angels are bad.
In Diablo 3 some of them were willing helping us.
The whole angels part of the lore is bad.
Angels - stupid, rash, prideful, un-wise, poor influence over humans
Demons - smart, calculating, prideful but on purpose, wise, incredibly corrupting to humans with influence entire orders fail to withstand.
The demons are just outright portrayed as superior. The whole portrayal of heaven should never have happened. Things should have been left at - a bunch of angels here and there and tyrael fucking up on a regular basis.
I didn't love that part, either
Angels are not perfect but they are far, far, far, far better option then the demons. Its like, what would you like, to have a ich on your back or your head chopped off?
Angels represent Stasis & Good, whereas Demons represent Change & Evil. In a sad but twisted way, Humanity always changes, they never stay the same. In truth, Angels fighting Demons is the Stasis, whereas Humans and Nephs entering in are the Change.
Inarius may have been a fool for trusting the Daughter of Hatred, but he wasn't wrong in diminishing the powers of Humanity. If he never had diminished their powers, it would've been fairly easy for evil to win, cause Malthael saw that while they do pick good sometimes, they overwhelmingly choose evil.
Now though, with the Nephalim returning, and Humanity knowing that neither side is to their benefit, Imperius has good reason to fear them. One took down not only the combined might of the Demons, but also that same hero took down Malthael who infused those combined souls within himself. If just ONE could do that, then from Imperius' view, imagine the terror of what a thousand could do.
With the way things are going in the storyline, The Nephalim may achieve what neither side has been able to do since their birth; the return of the god that made them. But what at what cost? The destruction of Hell & Heaven.
May seem unlikely, but seriously, just look at what one Nephalim did in Diablo 3. Hell & Heaven may even unite in fear & desperation. I could see that happening, it was possible with Inarius & Lilith, it could very well happen with both sides in totality.
Looks like they hanged a "in vacation" note on the gates of heaven, the only angel in D4 ended up loosing for sure. Anyone know of any reference to angels in D4 ?
I feel like the reason for why the angels are this way is because Anu purged himself from all of his PERCEIVED imperfections but the ones he never even considered riding himself of was his pride and belief that he could become perfect. In fact by splitting himself in 2 he WEAKENED himself.
Instead of facing and accepting his flaws so that he could transcend them he chose to deny those parts of himself and reject them. Because of this the angels believe themselves to be perfect beings and that all other things are at best flawed or at worst corrupt. Meanwhile humanity has the capacity to become far greater because we embrace both sides in their totality.
In essence we become what Anu should have been. A correction to a mistake made at the dawn of creation itself. A perfect ending to the full story would be Humanity destroying the Burning Hells once and for all after the Demons win the Eternal Conflict and destroy the Angels.
When mortal races in Babylon-5 series were forced to choose between Vorlons and Shadows representing Order and Chaos respectively, it was one human named John Sheridan who said: We no longer need neither any of you, get the hell off our galaxy! And he gathered every mortal race together to fight both Vorlons and Shadows alike.
It's about time for Nephalem and Humans to do the same.
Tbh... hell is waaaay more strategic while heaven is arrogant, insecure and fearfuo of everyrhing they are not. Examole: imperius and inarius
examole? 😂
Sorry i was kinda drunk writing that lol
Nah, not a big fan of the whole "well, one angel is corrupted, so lets go ahead and abandon all good and side with (literally) the devil." Thats a flawed reasoning. Cool, I suppose, for a game mechanic, but I've always been that stickler who plays a Paladin or Knight for good. Often times sacrificing my own safety for said good.
I don't want the game to turn into a cartoon where evil and good just become game pieces. I want them to remain steadfast on both sides of the line.
2:20 To attack proactivly is not very pure action. Is Cain mistating what happened or was it actuality that the High Heaven sought to fight the Burning Hells? IMHO the only pure action High Heavens have is to defend against the Burning Hells. Although to create one must destroy.
I always plays Paladins in games...so~ light be with you friends.
Late to the party, amazing video as always, but I never liked the angels.
In diablo 2 Tyrael was a great example of angel, he had that aura of celestial and the fact that he recognized his weak spots(can not directcly aid the humanity , can not be present in the worldstond chamber because Baal blocked his spiritual presence.) He guided the hero and gave some advices.
I mean, in diablo 3, the way they are written comes as shallow, and for me at least, angels in diablo 3 do not come off as good, virtuous, majestic. But as arrogant, negligent, sporradic, impulsive.
Far from elysian and celestic and close to just the ones who oppose demons, not angelic/good, but as the oposite.
When they(in the story) begin to hint at the idea that we are gonna met angels, I expected to see some beings of purity and piety, but we are feed some cardboard types of herors/good guys. There is nothing good in them just the fact that they oppose the demons makes them think of themselfs as the good ones.
Wait. Malthael died, so there should be a new angel replacing him right? Let's just hope whoever it is ain't an idiot like Imperius or Tyrael.
(Also wouldn't be cool if Malthael's replacement was a playable angel character?)
Didn't Tyrael take Mathiel's place as the aspect of wisdom? I was positive that he did
@@davidarbogast37 then someone should fill in Tyrael's old post as Justice (or a new aspect)