Honestly it was one of the most entertaining back and forths I've ever had. Openly acknowledging ATB FF are my favourites and all hell broke loose. This is the best comment section on YT lol. Thank you for your service.
It's literally just better turn based because you can SEE your speed stat/turn order. That's the only point that needs to be made. Also, this is FF6. The only FF game that DOESN'T increase all your stats when you level up. This was a dishonest argument from the get go. Also, I've yet to see a single Anti ATB/Turn Based argument that wasn't them just admitting to being impatient or unintelligent.
@@FreezyNinja impatient and unintelligent? Haha. The real time element is rarely utilised and often its done so in a way that emulates turn order in standard turn based combat. I've never felt it add pressure to any system nor does waiting g for a bar to fill have any tangible differentiation from waiting for a turn. Turn based games can clearly represent turn order with the need for an arbitrary bar to fill over time. Octopath for example. The fact you can't internalise your turn order or strat structures would suggest a lack of intelligence on your end if we actually consider your points made. 🤷 And here you have just another failed attempt at rationalisation of preference over actually considering design goals and implementation. And ff2 also doesn't increase stars upon a general level up curve so perhaps fact check before accusing someone of dishonesty. My statement is entirely good faith. You on the other hand are at best inaccurate or at worst in bad faith. Lol
@@Ashamedofmypast Wrong. It's not about "internalizing" anything. It's about being allowed to strategically DECIDE when you take your turn. If I don't want Cyan to attack right away, I can CHOOSE to just wait for a better opportunity(which I did quite often). If I don't want Gogo to Mime something specific, I can CHOOSE to wait for a better chance/ability to Mime. Also, FF2 DOES increase agility naturally. Quit lying. The game doesn't even have a traditional leveling system, so you KNOW that argument holds no water. Anyone with a bare minimum of two working brain cells and access to google could figure that out in 30 seconds or less. You two have done nothing but lie and prove my point. You two are disingenuous at best and blatantly lying at worst. I even went ahead and tested the FF6 ATB speed. Napkin is lying. His game is NOT set to the highest battle speed.
@@FreezyNinja the ad hominem nature of your language betrays you you quite literally made no new arguments here and failed to see the hypocrisy in your words. Proceeded to intentionally misrepresented the comments that serve as the basis for your near preliterate rebuttals. Impressively diminishing the argument you attempted to make bravo 👏 I never cited this video in my discourse? You cannot assume my basis for my opinion. I haven't made any statement on the quality of this video. I made that comment prior to watching it as it happens. Nor do I recall its content if I'm honest. I tralled the internet on sources to help me make choices in a prepro design document. As I had always counted the ATB ff titles among some of my favourite games I was looking for a convincing justification of the system. Sadly I've yet to find any. I never specified agility nor did i make any comment to the effect of "ff2" has a traditional leveling ststem. Simply correct you when you made an incorrect claim. In 2 that stat is quiet random and tied to inventory weight? Please refrain from being outright deceitful my 2 brain cells(neurons rather) could recollect this just fine sans Google search thank you. The statement you make on the choosing when to attack is not unique to atb be any measure. Waiting to attack and phased encounters predate atb. Clear turn ordering and implementing strategies around it and enemy behaviour patterns are not beholden to atb never were? And in most use cases there isn't a strategic choice to be made instead its a simple waiting game to avoid taking or maximise dealing damage. Even the mimic example isn't reliant on atb for gods sake. Atb wasn't even designed to add that caveat. Atb was intended to accrue and utilise time debt to create pressure in the same way F1 pit stops do. But it isnt really an elegant avenue of implementing that. Hard turn based systems can implement that without ATB and in my opinion do so in more mechanically interesting ways. By all means continue to champion ATB as a system but at least attempt to form a coherent arguement for its implementation. Nostalgia is strong. And simply not having a good reason for something by no means makes it inherently bad. Playing with turn order is interesting that's why so many of us consider it heavily in combat design. And while I see the ATB in its base form as a rather poor design choice it can still prove effective in iteration. The ATB2.0 system is a great Indication of this even if the benefits of that system can also be implemented in a hard turn system. Math can't always account for tastes or the inherent appeal to endorphin of watching a little bar fill up over time it certainly has a chemical component. But as a designer it just seems to fall short of being the best choice of system in the majority of cases.
@@Ashamedofmypast "I never specified agility nor did i make any comment to the effect of "ff2" has a traditional leveling ststem." Ok, just stop. You're being disingenuous as hell and you know it. Just shut up until you're willing to discuss the points without deliberately misrepresenting them. Knowing you people though...That is NEVER going to happen.
There is a war in the comments
dear lord what is happening in there
Honestly it was one of the most entertaining back and forths I've ever had. Openly acknowledging ATB FF are my favourites and all hell broke loose. This is the best comment section on YT lol. Thank you for your service.
😂😂😂😂😂
Ive yet to see a pro atb arguement thats isnt just "i like it cause i like those ff games."
It's literally just better turn based because you can SEE your speed stat/turn order. That's the only point that needs to be made. Also, this is FF6. The only FF game that DOESN'T increase all your stats when you level up. This was a dishonest argument from the get go.
Also, I've yet to see a single Anti ATB/Turn Based argument that wasn't them just admitting to being impatient or unintelligent.
@@FreezyNinja impatient and unintelligent? Haha.
The real time element is rarely utilised and often its done so in a way that emulates turn order in standard turn based combat.
I've never felt it add pressure to any system nor does waiting g for a bar to fill have any tangible differentiation from waiting for a turn.
Turn based games can clearly represent turn order with the need for an arbitrary bar to fill over time.
Octopath for example.
The fact you can't internalise your turn order or strat structures would suggest a lack of intelligence on your end if we actually consider your points made.
🤷
And here you have just another failed attempt at rationalisation of preference over actually considering design goals and implementation.
And ff2 also doesn't increase stars upon a general level up curve so perhaps fact check before accusing someone of dishonesty.
My statement is entirely good faith.
You on the other hand are at best inaccurate or at worst in bad faith.
Lol
@@Ashamedofmypast Wrong. It's not about "internalizing" anything. It's about being allowed to strategically DECIDE when you take your turn. If I don't want Cyan to attack right away, I can CHOOSE to just wait for a better opportunity(which I did quite often). If I don't want Gogo to Mime something specific, I can CHOOSE to wait for a better chance/ability to Mime.
Also, FF2 DOES increase agility naturally. Quit lying. The game doesn't even have a traditional leveling system, so you KNOW that argument holds no water. Anyone with a bare minimum of two working brain cells and access to google could figure that out in 30 seconds or less.
You two have done nothing but lie and prove my point. You two are disingenuous at best and blatantly lying at worst. I even went ahead and tested the FF6 ATB speed. Napkin is lying. His game is NOT set to the highest battle speed.
@@FreezyNinja the ad hominem nature of your language betrays you
you quite literally made no new arguments here and failed to see the hypocrisy in your words.
Proceeded to intentionally misrepresented the comments that serve as the basis for your near preliterate rebuttals.
Impressively diminishing the argument you attempted to make bravo 👏
I never cited this video in my discourse? You cannot assume my basis for my opinion.
I haven't made any statement on the quality of this video.
I made that comment prior to watching it as it happens.
Nor do I recall its content if I'm honest.
I tralled the internet on sources to help me make choices in a prepro design document.
As I had always counted the ATB ff titles among some of my favourite games I was looking for a convincing justification of the system.
Sadly I've yet to find any.
I never specified agility nor did i make any comment to the effect of "ff2" has a traditional leveling ststem.
Simply correct you when you made an incorrect claim.
In 2 that stat is quiet random and tied to inventory weight? Please refrain from being outright deceitful my 2 brain cells(neurons rather) could recollect this just fine sans Google search thank you.
The statement you make on the choosing when to attack is not unique to atb be any measure.
Waiting to attack and phased encounters predate atb.
Clear turn ordering and implementing strategies around it and enemy behaviour patterns are not beholden to atb never were?
And in most use cases there isn't a strategic choice to be made instead its a simple waiting game to avoid taking or maximise dealing damage.
Even the mimic example isn't reliant on atb for gods sake.
Atb wasn't even designed to add that caveat.
Atb was intended to accrue and utilise time debt to create pressure in the same way F1 pit stops do.
But it isnt really an elegant avenue of implementing that.
Hard turn based systems can implement that without ATB and in my opinion do so in more mechanically interesting ways.
By all means continue to champion ATB as a system but at least attempt to form a coherent arguement for its implementation. Nostalgia is strong. And simply not having a good reason for something by no means makes it inherently bad. Playing with turn order is interesting that's why so many of us consider it heavily in combat design.
And while I see the ATB in its base form as a rather poor design choice it can still prove effective in iteration.
The ATB2.0 system is a great Indication of this even if the benefits of that system can also be implemented in a hard turn system.
Math can't always account for tastes or the inherent appeal to endorphin of watching a little bar fill up over time it certainly has a chemical component.
But as a designer it just seems to fall short of being the best choice of system in the majority of cases.
@@Ashamedofmypast "I never specified agility nor did i make any comment to the effect of "ff2" has a traditional leveling ststem."
Ok, just stop. You're being disingenuous as hell and you know it. Just shut up until you're willing to discuss the points without deliberately misrepresenting them. Knowing you people though...That is NEVER going to happen.