51 The Three Gables from The Case-Book of Sherlock Holmes (1927) Audiobook
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- Опубликовано: 17 июн 2022
- This is the last story from The Casebook of Sherlock Holmes that I can record this year. The remaining ones (there are 3 I think) are still in copyright in the US. I’ve now recorded three in 2022 and I put this one off till last. Why put this one at the bottom of the pile?
Frankly, I didn’t much like it. I don’t think it feels like Arthur Conan Doyle and I’ve read a lot of Conan Doyle. This is not a new theory by the way: wikipedia gives the bare bones of the debate. There may be more about it online but I haven’t pursued it. For me it’s a gut feeling. What do you think? What makes you think it is ACD, what persuades you that it isn’t? Can you tell I didn’t enjoy recording it? Please comment in the usual way, if you wish.
This adventure was first published in 1926 in Liberty, a US publication, and then in the Strand magazine in the same year. Conan Doyle died in 1930.
WARNING: this story contains racist stereotypes and language not unusual in fiction at the time, but in my view out of keeping with Sir Arthur and the characters he honed and fashioned over a lifetime.
Initially I decided not to record this story, but having made that decision some weeks ago, I have since thought better of it. As I say, I’d be fascinated to hear your thoughts on the matter.
This story is read by Greg Wagland for Magpie Audio.
©Magpie Audio 2022
P.S. Thank you again to everyone for your stalwart support of the channel. Enjoy the ads! Cheers! 
Развлечения
I listen to the Sherlock Holmes audio books every single night before I go to sleep.
They help me to relax.
😆 so do I, I thought I was the only one that finds these stories relaxing, might I suggest the Arrowwood series by Mick Finlay
Same here, going on about 5 years.
Me too.
Amazing! I thought I was the only one! I listen to Simon Vance's readings every night!
Lol, same. I can't remember how many times I had to start some of the episodes.... only to zzzzz again in the 5th minute.
I'm super glad to get another Holmes tale from you! Glad you got re-monetized (congratulations). And thanks for all the great recordings over the years.
Thanks Greg. Now that Doyle's work has been exhausted, are you planning to continue with some of the other authors that you've read? There are certainly quite a few great stories out there that belong in the public domain.
Congratulations on your triumphant win over the demons of demonetization.
I have to agree with you that this story was not up to the standards that I expect from Doyle. There was nothing wrong with your delivery and I commend you for your dedication to bring all of the Holmes tales to us. Thank you.
I find his last works overall quite weak.
@@failsmichael2542that is because he began detesting creating the character of Sherlock because his other books get a very little recognition because Sherlock’s stories overshadows the he even tried killing the character but fans are so hell bend on the character that he has to bring him back to life the return of Sherlock Holmes was never suppose to happen.
I’m looking forward to watching “Killing Sherlock” on BBC two by Lucy Worsley coming Sunday 10th December.
@@nusaibaumarmadaki3418g
Greg, we would absolutely LOVE it if you could find a way to use your magnificent skills to narrate what was written as a play, namely the 1899 Arthur Conan Doyle-William Gillette collaboration called 'Sherlock Holmes: The Strange Case Of Miss Faulkner'!
Bloody oath, onya Greg "Wagz" Wagland, Cheer's from Melbourne m8ty...
As to whether this reading is the same as the other stories' reading, I was a bit startled by listening to a half minute beginning of this story then a half minute beginning of another (random one). There was a difference. But Greg Wagland is THE best Sherlock Holmes stories narrator, hands down, regardless!
Not even close.
It would be interesting to conduct a machine learning experiment to investigate the probability that ACD actually wrote this short story. I don't believe one could say with certainty that Doyle wrote it, partly or completely. It could be the case that an amanuensis was somehow involved. It's certainly not of the calibre of Hound of the Baskervilles or A scandal in Bohemia. Well done, as ever.
I spent the better part of the day researching this story. It is indeed A. C. Doyle's work, 100%
@@satanlucifer6099 So did Doyle just have a lousy week?
@@AroAceGamer - He does, but that doesn't go against the fact that Doyle wrote this.
Conan Doyle never penned crap like this!
It's called demand. Sometimes prolific writers get rushed...
So good to have you back with another Sherlock Holmes story.
Thought I’d heard them all,but again you’ve proved me wrong I’m happy to say.
Your narration is so excellent,I enjoy those stories I’ve heard before far more when narrated by you,but this is a special treat.✊♥️
I'll never believe Sir Doyle wrote this. However, you made it Sherlock, so there's that.❤️
Why not? It’s well known he got tired of SH many many years earlier until offered a massive amount. He was getting old. He had other just as successful books come out in these years. That he felt fulfilled him from writing the cheap fiction he saw SH as. . He may have been writing on autopilot to fulfill a contract and move on from something he wanted over with 40 years earlier.
He did said something about feeling as if he was a hostage of Sherlock Holmes.
Yes, I didn't know that, but we read that Agatha Christie grew to hate Hercule Poirot! None the less, she killed him off in a most respectful way.
Hi Greg…I love,love, love your audio presentations. Your are the voice of Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson (in my mind). I rarely watch TV but find listening to you read a great story so relaxing…find myself laughing out loud at the pompous and snobbish voices from the past and feeling the atmosphere of England, as it once was. Thank You XXX
Thank you, Patricia. Glad you're enjoying them - especially my pompous voices - can't understand why I find them so easy!!!!!!!
It seems to me that all the elements of a usual Sherlock Holmes story are there, but the composition is a bit off. As a writer myself, I can imagine a few possibilities:
- This was an early-written story repurposed to complete a final series
- The author had the germ of an idea but had no proper chance to mature it, hence the wonky flow and development
- The publisher was under pressure and the editor and/or author had to deliver it prematurely
All in all, I hear Doyle’s ‘voice’ in this one but not in his usual style and presentation. Those are my two cents Greg and thank you again for a delightful reading! :)
It's clunky and Holmes is overly verbose and snarky.
I think it's more likely he was getting on a bit!
My husband and I really enjoy listening to these Sherlock Homes story’s and you read them so well thank you 😊
Thank you!
Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes' story The Five Orange Pips takes on the nefarious KKK. His The Yellow Face story is another relevant read.
Yes, but if you read The Five Orange Pips carefully, you notice that it, sadly, has nothing to do with fighting racism. It´s more like he used KKK simply because he needed a dangerous organization, just like the Maffia in two other stories, the mormons in Study in Scarlet and the freemasons in Valley of Fear.
Dear Greg, thank you so much for your voice, the very voice of Mr. Sherlock Holmes!
Very kind of you to say so, Simone Conversi.
Love the pic!
YT bullys are just mad because you have more talent in your voice than they do in their entire bodies. It seems to be an unfortunate trend of theirs lately. You have made me a huge Holmes fan and I love YOUR content! I will listen to all you create ❣✌
Very bold to read this story immediately after a hard fight for monetization. Quite an unusually racially charged story compared to the extensive catalog of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s works both Sherlock Holmes and otherwise. I’ve never even heard of this debate untill now but for posterity’s sake let’s just hope that this was some ridiculous third party story
I don't think Doyle would have written such awkward dialogue for the Black character at the start, nor put a stupid joke about "lips" in Holmes' mouth. But the language does mimic Doyle fairly well.
Excellent oratory as always.
I have read the Holmes collections numerous times from 1970s, through both collections again last year. NEVER have thought this was a work of Doyle. Actually, I didn't bother after a few pages into this one last year.
Leaves a sour taste. Seems as if parts were outlined, even written by Doyle, but someone completely enept attempted to finish it without sufficient skill or knowledge of the other works to make it pass with Doyle readers.
Good on you for presenting the work with your class, while pointing out the oddity, including publication, that creates reservations.
Mahe Ohna ✌️ Favour ALL
Inept
Three Gables is my least favorite Holmes story at present, and to be honest I could care less about whether Doyle wrote it or not. If he did, he definitely wasn’t bringing his A-game and it would have been better off going unpublished; if he didn’t, it’s a poor imitation and it would have been better off going unpublished.
It's I know, perfectly acceptable verbiage for the era but you just can't help but wince at some of the description of Steve, as well as the dialogue itself, attributed to his character. Just very unfortunate but there's nothing for it because it was written when it was written and nothing can be done about that
It definitely sounds ‘different’. No flashes of SH’s genius intellect.Insulting a visitor on the basis of his appearance doesn’t sound like something Conan Doyle would write at all.The writing doesn’t have the usual elegance either.Within 5 minutes I knew that something was ‘off’.
There´s slightly less zest in your reading of this story but no, I couldn´t tell you didn´t enjoy recording it if I didn´t know. Thank you so much for your work! As for the authorship, it doesn´t sound that different from other Sherlock Holmes stories. I´ve always thought The Mazarin Stone might have been written by someone else. It has a sort of cheap feel about it, the use of adjectives is different and the plot is much simpler than in other stories.
The Mazarin Stone was written as a stage play then adapted to be used in the Strand Magazine. The play involved Colonel Sebastian Moran, hence the strange similarities to the Empty House. It takes place totally at Baker Street due to staging requirements. Watson hardly appeared in the play.
@@avpmobi Didn´t know that, thanks for the info! Now it makes more sense 🙂
It has been noted it was first published in Strand magazine in 1926 in the U.K. Certainly someone in England can find an archive to look up that magazine's publishing in 1926.
Definitely not ACD. Having Holmes make a crack about the man’s lips and smell is a bridge too far, and it shows the author’s maliciously racist intent.
“Oh, Susan-launguage!” is likewise a line Holmes would NEVER say, as is his pointed remark about her possibly not living long.
If I’m being quite honest, I would prefer that this one be deleted. It somewhat sullies the whole collection, and ACD’s good name with it.
I do not think ACD would have let Strand Magazine publish under his name if he didn't write it. Having said that, I must admit I was disappointed in the text and plot, not your delivery. The Jeremy Brett version was much improved on the original. Too many loose ends in the original. Another story which falls into this category is the Norwood Builder. Police even then could tell if there was a body in a blaze. One thing we should be careful is to not try, to apply present standards and attitudes to the past. The Yellow Face is not the typical attitude then, it is 3 Gables.
And one man can hold hoth sets of views. To think they are incompatible is to be in error. Most people have an ideal and a least ideal view of any group or category. And are fully capable of classifying an individual or subgroup anywhere along that track, or thinking up an individual for the purposes of ficfkon
Thank you so much. There are still two more that are still under copyright until 2022.
*2023
Hello Greg Wagland! I really appreciate your work, and I listen to all of these, because I'm working on my British accent. I think you have the best voice, even compared to Cumberbatch.
As to the authenticity of this story and your embarrassment about it, I understand under the current conditions of political correctness how you would feel abashed. But it seems quite evident that it is authentic, and just shows us a side of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle that we heretofore had not known. But as you've said, undercurrents of racism were in vogue at the time of writing. There's no need to feel ashamed about it at this point. I think it's rather noble that you put out something historical as it is. We don't need to try and change or erase the past. It's best that we are merely aware of it and therefore can make other choices now. I heartily applaud all your readings. Thank you.
Thanks for commenting. If possible I will avoid using vocabulary that might offend but try to make as few cuts as possible. One hopes listeners understand that the past is another country altogether and should be embraced or avoided to taste. Cheers!
I guess Greg may help your accent, and he is very clear. But I am sure you are aware that most people in UK do not speak like this!
We'll forgather about the throne, there to live forevermore.
We'll forgather about the throne, there to live forevermore.
Lovely! Thank for this and welcome back!
I agree, this seems not quite in the style of Doyle. Oh, congratulations on 100,000 subscribers! Yours is one of my favorite channels. Let us know if you ever get a Patreon. Would love to become a contributor and a supporter. It’s the least for all the joy you have given. Cheers!
Ignore the Patreon question, have found it and subscribed.
I'm inclined to think that ACD didn't write this one. Horrific racial stereotypes aside, this story doesn't read like his voice at all. The dialogue is too expansive, descriptions too flowery. Even comparing it to other works of his that are underdeveloped and on the melodramatic side like the Cardboard Box, this just feels too different in too many ways.
Yes. Have been listening to these stories a lot. This one doesn’t seem to have the same rhythm/flow as the others.
THank you for another Sherlock Holmes story! I love your voice!
So wonderful to hear your comforting voice again. Bravo. those who have an issue with ancient attitudes in literature can move on and not listen.
It's most definitely not one of ACD's best. I can't wait to hear your narration of The Veiled Lodger. A sad story indeed but a good one!
Splendid delivery as always, but I’m at a loss as to why anyone would question the authorship of the story.
Greg you’re the best! Your reading is perfect! Cheers
I hope this will settle the question of authorship. Not only did Doyle write the manuscript for the story himself, he wrote it by hand with ink and paper, and made many corrections, before signing his name to it. The manuscript was put up for auction by Sothebys, and is described with the following:
"Lot 104: "The Adventure of the Three Gables" manuscript
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote the original manuscript of "The Three Gables" in ink on 31 ruled pages (rectos only) that are 8 x 6 1/4 inches. It is signed at end as "A Conan Doyle | Crowborough" and contains more than 100 corrections, additions and deletions - some in darker ink or in pencil. It was bound for the author in vellum and titled in gilt on the upper cover as "The | Adventure | of the | Three Gables || A Sherlock Holmes Story."
Although the date of writing is not listed on the manuscript, it was written circa 1926 and first published in September 1926. This story was later collected in The Case Book of Sherlock Holmes. The Marquis of Donegall once owned the manuscript. It is estimated to sell at US$350,000-$500,000.
The online catalogue contains three photos of the manuscript, including the first page, an interior page, and the last page. When you click an image it displays in a new browser window, and allows you to zoom in to see details. Sotheby's April - June Sale Schedule press release includes a small photo of the first page of the manuscript (PDF). Registration is not required to view this."
I'll add that one must be very careful questioning the authorship of something from a much-admired writer, simply because of a personal dislike of the story, or of backwards views expressed within it. Not every Sherlock Holmes story rises to greatness... that would be impossible for any author to achieve! I personally don't care for a professor injecting ape-juice as an elixir of youth, or Holmes chasing "vampires" and poison jellyfish to name just a few of the plots that fall short of great murder mysteries (imho). There's also plenty of nonsense included that people took as scientific facts back in the Victorian era, like "reading" character and personality (and criminality) from the shape of someone's head, or facial features, or family background, or the behavior of their pets - all of which seem completely ridiculous today, and rather illogical for someone who claims to be all-reason-and-logic like Holmes.
Even the characterization of Holmes himself varies quite significantly over the years - from the socially hopeless, theatrical, and rather vain nerd we first met in 'Study in Scarlet', a man who Watson often observes is most succeptable to flattery, and makes a point to show off his skills in front of others as much as possible in the earlier stories because he loves to have his ego stroked - to a noble, quiet, steadfast, alpha-war-hero-badass with nerves of steel, a man who is supremely moral and humble, who positively loathes to have credit or notoriety for his work in the later stories. Gone is the vanity and the narcissism, to make way for brooding silence and mystery and reverence... continuity of personality didn't matter much to Doyle. In a similarly carefree fashion Doyle never observes any consistency with Watson and his (many?) dead & vanished wives. Or consider that in some stories Holmes proclaims his dislike of women, insults their intelligence and nature as "building on quicksand" and is described by Watson as being completely immune to their charms - but not only does Holmes worship Irene Adler and treasure her photograph as the woman who outwitted him, many times he will risk life and limb to save the honor or engagement of some woman he's never met, and severely berates a millionaire man he does not know for taking an interest in a young lady while already married, because Holmes is so disgusted at the moral mistreatement of a lady. Now I ask, if Holmes really didn't care for women and lived in complete indifference to their charms as is claimed in several stories by Watson, why is he so determined to play the knight in shining armor and match-maker to so many of them?! Why does he avenge the wrongs brought upon them? It seems to be his favorite passtime, rescuing beautiful ladies everywhere he goes!
The answer, I believe is simple... Doyle did not actually give any of this much thought. Holmes was not a person, but a writing experiment... what would happen if a character, a detective character, was more "calculating machine" than human being. Doyle certainly didn't imagine his stories would be devoured by ardent fans 120+ years later. At the time, he wasn't writing for posterity, he thought he was writing pulp fiction trash for magazines, not "real literature". Anything that appealed to the masses and made the story "sell" could be used... so Holmes and Watson changed to whatever character traits and plot devices worked for the adventure at hand. The only thing that stayed consistent was that Holmes was a brilliantly clever man with a few eccentric traits, and Watson was his ever faithful fanboy/lapdog.
Like most people, Doyle had mixed social views that reflected the time he lived in as a subject of the "great" British empire. This empire was certainly not "great" to all the people of color it was oppressing and murdering. Brittons were swimming in so much racism and tribalism and classism and sexism back then they didn't even consider for a moment any of it was wrong... and so it makes sense that Holmes stories leap from one blatant offensive stereotype to the next when describing people that are not white, Brittish, and male. There is plenty of racism in Doyles other Holmes stories, the Three Gables is certainly not alone in that... remember when Watson said he could not tell if something was a dead monkey or a "negro baby" in the The Adventure of Wisteria Lodge??
Yes. Very useful on authorship. Thank you. I still think it's an extraordinary outlier - despite your excellent examples. To my mind it lacks an essential quality of ACD which I can't quite put my finger on. Anyway thank you for such a comprehensive response.
A very thorough reply, thank you.
Greg Wagland: you do such a great job at reading this, and with all the voices and intonations-- it's a such a pleasure, thank you.
Wonderful to hear another reading from you, Greg...despite your heart not being in it, which I DON'T believe was reflected in your delivery! I am in total agreement, however, that this one wasn't up to his earlier standards, but not quite convinced that ACD wasn't the author, because of the late date. There could be many reasons to account for this fact. I guess we will never know for sure! Great job, regardless! Thank you!
I guess we never will know. A bit of idle speculation about the accepted narrative never did anyone any harm. Or did it?
@@sherlock_holmes_magpie_audiointerestingly, it's not The Three Gables that made me wonder if this was truly written by Conan Doyle~it was The Three Garridebs. That one just strikes me as being completely subpar as well as almost entirely... Inconsequential.
This one, however, having no memory of it~ although I see I left a comment a year ago~has me, at midpoint, on tenterhooks, eager to enjoy the "big reveal" of the solved mystery.
Hmm
Going further into the debate of whether it’s Doyle or not would be fascinating on the podcast..
Watson's voice lulls me to sleep every night. Thanks Grg!
PG Wodehouse started his career near the end of Sir Arthur’s and managed to successfully alter his characters when the public clamored for their favorites.
Now I am interested to hear Sir Arthur’s other works.
It sounds like ACD but perhaps a first draft or maybe strung out on speed ball? It's rough around the edges but nothing technical stands out as unlike SCD.
I agree it isn't in the same feel
Another great listen . Many thanks.
Reading it...... sorry listening to it now, kind sir 🦻🥳
I liked it very much. Great accents.
Thanks Greg for another great read.
As far as I am aware Sir Arthur Conan Doyle did write this.
London society was so afraid of Milverton. They should have been afraid of Sherlock Holmes. He had secrets.
I am so excited to see this!
I’ve heard this before several years ago and it was definitely attributed to ACD.
Sweet... Thank you!
Enjoyable!!
Interesting description! I can't wait to listen and find out what that's all about!
I am not a expert on Conan Doyle but I have to say that for me this story is like a low end Sherlock Holmes. Im not the best with words but if I wish to describe the difference for me this is more of a forced to write a story (little like school home work have to do it but since it is forced it gets minimal effort) VS story's like Sign of the Four/Hound of the Baskervilles and A Study in Scarlet feel more like ACD enjoyed writing this is more of the AM I DONE YET feel not truly terrible but definitely lackluster compared to earlier works.Still beautifully read as always a bad story told well is better than a good story told badly thanks much for the reading it was a bad story but still a enjoyable listen.
It’s possible; Clark Gable at least was alive when ACD was still writing.
The only good Sherlock Holmes book I've read not written by Doyle is Art in the Blood by Bonnie Macbird
2 mins in and my gut feeling is that ACD did not write this. There's just something quite different about the sentence construction; it feels like the writer has tried hard to write like ACD... but just hasn't achieved it; who could!
Yes... I agree.
This helps me sleep every night
Seeing this is the last for this year, because of Copywrite laws, will you be starting other series, other than Sherlock Holmes? I know that some audiobooks are gems but the narrators are not worthy, many should be do-overs.
I have just finished listening to the 3 Gables, and read your comments with interest.
I am a lifelong fan of good detective tales. I first read all of these as a child. I am now a pensioner and listen to radio plays and audiobooks. At first I did not love your voice, having experienced other voices I did love. but I have come to love it. I appreciate your steady delivery and your subtle but talented use of accents. I appreciate your hard work!
Re production, it is admirable that you keep the adverts to the start of a story. If you allowed ads in the middle, as many folk do, I would not listen to them.
Re The 3 Gables. No, it is not apparent to me that you did not like it. But there are a few things I notice; maybe not enough to prove anything. The story is not as complex or detailed as the others. Rather too many loose ends. Towards the end where Holmes interviews the lady (around 33.00), he says “I have under-rated your intelligence”. I swear he means he has over-rated it. I cannot recall another incidence of ACD using what I’d call ‘the wrong word’.
Re the racist bits, yes but I consider that normal for European writing of that era. Agatha Christie would be a good example. I am not familiar with American writings but I’d expect the same thing. I think ACD often does it, not only in this tale. Almost all of the characters are either white, or typecast. Not many black characters at all. Frequent refs to Jewish characteristics. Women are often ‘tropical’ and boy, does he over-use that word.
The idolisation by men of a certain type of man. The complete lack of understanding of women! Exemplified by Holmes self-defining as mistrustful of women and not understanding them. But it’s no use complaining about these very typical things. I love a good story, well-written, and ACD gave us plenty of them, and so do you, and I thank you.
For a completely different series of fun detective stories, I recommend the Rivers of London series by Ben Aaronovitch. The detective is a young sexy black man, and characters are often described as ‘white’, in preference to the usual habit of only mentioning colour if it’s black or brown (author is white). The stories are set in a parallel magical world of spells and the gods and goddesses of the rivers of London. But it is not Harry Potter, no it is not. Harry Potter never made love to a river goddess, in her river!
Thanks again.
Thank you
You can tell your not as enthusiastic in reading this one. Still wonderful to hear your voice and a new story .thank you for all the ones you've read over the years .
However story is written, Greg, you will bring life and exciting to it :)
Kind of you to say so, babciamira
Great to see you are monetized again. Congratulations and thanks for many hours of free entertainment. Cheers!
Free? Maybe.
Hello Greg, I am trying to understand your copyright comment ["The remaining ones (there are 3 I think) are still in copyright in the US"].
I keep a list in a spreadsheet of Sherlock Holmes stories: links to transcripts of the text and to your recordings of them. There are TWO stories you have not recorded: "The Veiled Lodger" and "Shoscombe Old Place".
According to the copyright page on "The Official Site of the Sir Arthur Conan Doyle Literary Estate," copyright expires in 2022 on three stories: "The Veiled Lodger," "The Retired Colourman," and "Shoscombe Old Place".
In February, you presented one of these three, "The Retired Colourman". So are the other two in the public domain or are all three copyrighted and that story was recorded too soon? If the other two are out of copyright, you could record them this year. Not to imply that we're greedy and impatient or anything like that. :-)
IMHO the idea that sir ACD didn´t write this is based on today´s concept that doesn´t really apply. The black boxer is just another example of a stereotype, and the stories are FULL of stereotypes. That was common in those times, partly simply due to lack of information and experience. Britain was mostly white in those days.
In sir Arthur´s stories, Latin Americans and the Welsh are passionate, Andaman islanders are savages, Prussians have military discipline, mulattos are voodoo worshippers, the Italians are involved with the Maffia. And boxers are stupid.
Sir Arthur builds on stereotypes but also has no problem making a non-English character worthy of respect when the story requires it. IMHO that means he wasn´t really racist, but he also wasn´t non-racist as we define it today. Hence the confusion.
The Peruvian wife in The Sussex Vampire is Peruvian because sir Arthur needed a little-known poison. He has no problem with making her a decent and loyal wife because that´s where the story goes. One character calls Indians "black devils" because he speaks of an Indian mutiny, but Jonathan Small makes Indian friends whom he respects because sir Arthur needs him to acquire an Indian treasure. Sir Arthur has no problem with condemning the KKK because he has nothing against black people and he needs a dangerous organization. The Five Orange Pips isn´t a story condemning a racist organization, it´s a story condemning a dangerous organization, just like the mormons in Study in Scarlet and the freemasons in Valley of Fear. That´s why it shouldn´t be mentioned in connection with the black boxer.
The Yellow Face is actually an exception; not this story. Because it´s the only one that actively hints at breaking stereotypes.
Well written, and a very interesting take. I think I'm with you on this. if anything I feel Sir ACD was pretty progressive for the time & place. kind of brave, honestly. However, I do agree that he often is just using stereotypes that a reader (at the time) could easily understand and that would further the story. how many of his stories have white people committing crimes? the majority. which makes sense, as white people were the majority there. 🤷🏽♀️
Great comment! I will re-listen to those stories in mind. Thanks! :-)
@@TherapistSakura Wow, so nice of you, glad to be of help! 🙂
Totally agree.
I don't see any reason the story couldn't be written by Doyle. It is not one of his best, which may explain why it was not published until towards the end of his life.
Great to hear a new one from you, Greg. I have to agree with those who suspect other authorship. This differs in too many ways from all his other stories, unless ACD was himself fading or under some sort of strange time pressure. All of his other works are much more tightly formulated, written, and polished than this one. Enjoyed it, but it did seem like a cheap knockoff compared to all the rest.
You do know he did fade. Which is why he tried to kill of Sherlock. He may have been a fitting on auto pilot. No author, even good ones, write excellent novels every time.
I’ve read all the Conan Doyle stories and many Sherlock stories by other writers. It’s very difficult to determine if this is a Conan Doyle story, but I’m no authority.
Agree. Not quite my cuppa. Great narration as always though!
I agree that the language, attitude and behavior of Holmes as well as the quality of the writing are all inconsistent with previous stories. Though I did not detect any substantial change in narration, I had to smile at the emphasis at the very end: ..."BY" Sir Arthur Conan Doyle...
100k subs, great achievement. Reg origin of The Three Gables, non-issue for me. Story was enjoyable to me; will listen again.
Reg RUclips policing content for pejoratives; the tech is not foolproof but YT reviewers lack depth to judge appeals in the spirit of policy. The YT replies to some appeals of successful RUclipsrs echo a familiar message: The clock strikes thirteen and it strikes for thee…
I was wondering when you would post this one.
I doubt this is a product of ACD. The use of "Massah" by an American black man (no matter his station) in England is highly improbable. His style is usually more reflective of the contemporary language.
Although Stephen Foster type spirituals were very popular here.
A graphotactical study would compare the distribution of graphemes associated ordinarily with a Doyle composition against the grapheme distribution demonstrated by The Three Gables. This would be, essentially, an objective analysis of language usage which used only the graphemes of which the morphemes (basic units of linguistic meaning) are constructed to assess comparative congruence.
Please see the comment about the original hand-written manuscript sold at Sotheby's!
The Sherlock holmes audiobooks are the best
Re~listen: I don't recall *Holmes* carrying a weapon🔫 g%% in any other story except this one. It was always *Watson* who had one & *Holmes* used other things as weapons. This might be a casual hint that Doyle did not write this but, it could be just Doyle changing things. I would never suspect that *Doyle* did not write it. Though he changed *Watson's* war wound from shoulder to leg. Just making conversation here🤔
Interesting points!
Oh, too crudely written to be Doyle. But everything sounds fabulous when Greg reads it!
Literally perfection
Southern black guy voice was quite unexpected
Back to this story after some months … what it feels like is Doyle wrote some of it and someone else - one of the avaricious Doyle clan or a hack editor/writer hired for the job? - finished it?
But yes, you were right to record it. People, including ACD, don’t need to be protected. And no, I can’t tell you disliked it. But it is not as well-written as many others.
I agree
After you’ve read every Sherlock Holmes related book will you move on to a different book series or read related books
Greg
With reference to your own comments. I have no problem with the racial descriptions as they are in keeping with the time it was written.
But as to the alluded racial slur as to smell made twice, this seems totally out of character for Holmes and ACD writings.
Could this addition have been made by the Editor/Publishing House to please the American Market at the time.
Chin up - nothing to see hear - just more great Sherlock Holmes.
As much as I can understand why people would want to think this WASN'T one of Doyle's work, I feel it is.
I've read plenty of authors works that have felt like they were dipping in quality as time went on, even when they still loved what they did and one book has to be an authors worst. I would not be surprised if this was simply a latter work by an author tired of the character and writing a more half-hearted and less polished work than usual. There's enough in there that feels like his writing and phrasing to make me think it's anyone else, even if there are clumsier parts.
Maybe.
I hope Doyle didn't right this, the Black character at the beginning of the story is introduced as a living punchline for the simple fact that he's not white. Adding to this is the fact he dresses well, which the story treats with a tragic irony, as if he's not aware of his own existential dehumanization by way of his birth, unable to assert his value as a person no matter what he does. Doyle was a product of his time certainly, but this seems to be written with cruelty rather than just ignorance.
Do you think we could get enough funds through crowdsourcing to get a license for the remaining Sherlock stories?
They go public domain in little over 6 months!
@@sherlock_holmes_magpie_audio oh yay! I can't wait ☺
If Conan Doyle wrote this, he was obviously having a bad day
I just watched the movie of this story starring *Jeremy Brett & Edward Hardwicke* guess *Granada* believed it was by *Conan Doyle*
Ooh! A new one! The fact that you are reading it makes me less than bothered by the authenticity of the authorship! Always a red letter day when you post. Thank you!
I see no reason why this story should not have been written by Doyle. The language and construction and turn of phrase seems to be as always.
That he would write a slightly different sort of tale in the roaring twenties than those he wrote in the straight-laced, starched, Victorian 1880s and '90s is not too surprising. . No one is quite the same person in their sixties as they were in their twenties and thirties. Especially so those who lived through World War I. The world changed. Doyle became obsessed with "spiritualism" in his later years, especially after his son's death. That in itself is a rather surprising aspect to his personality. Writers are people too, and do change.
Yes
A little re-&-re-considering (and comment reading), and this: The reading is as wonderful as could possibly be -- all your readings are!(!!!) The Three Gables certainly doesn't feel like ACD -- here's the only kind of twist I could imagine might happen...(long one)
I'm a very long time student and fan of Sherlock Holmes and I never knew about this authorship controversy, though I did have the same off-put feelings I think I hear everyone voicing.
This is especially so to me because I was delighted by what I took the message to be in the earlier Holmes story, The Adventure of the Yellow Face (considered in the context of time, place and cultural inertia). The Three Gables seemed to be a complete flip in racial attitude and expression! Did anyone else find the racial themes of these two stories especially incongruous?
It is an occupational hazard for me to look for possible psychological gestalts and matrices which might make plausible, if improbable, circumstances possible. Here is the only sort of circumstance in which I might see this story slipping out of Sir Arthur's pen. It is loosely constructed from some stories I have come across regarding him:
Firstly, at what point in time did he write this story? I know it was later on, but how much later on? Then, consider the following factors of his long-term mental set at the time:
A.) Arthur Conan Doyle had gotten tired of writing the Sherlock Holmes stories in general;
B.) He felt that the Holmes stories were over shadowing some of his other, more serious writings;
C.) He felt that writing the Holmes stories were causing him to be type cast as an author, and so he wasn't be taken as seriously as he thought he should be;
D.) He was, to some extent, "forced" back into writing the stories due to financial pressures, possibly combined with social pressure, and he no doubt resented this to some extent and on some levels.
Secondly, Doyle had a traumatic childhood involving an alcoholic father. We know that children in such circumstances often grow up to become drinkers themselves. Was this true in his case? If so, and this was a particularly difficult period during which he was feeling especially resentful of the Holmes stories, might he have resorted to a little extra drink? Then, perhaps further exasperated by sleep loss, was he in a more or less, if you'll excuse the pun, "liquid" state of consciousness bordering on a half-awake, light hypnotic trance (it has happened to all of us)? (If so, this could also explain the fact that, "it didn't sound like him".)
Thirdly, in this permeable state of consciousness, could his unconscious mind conflate the source of unreasonable authority -- his father -- with Dr. Joseph Bell, the main inspiration for at least Holmes' deductive methods, if not the Sherlock Holmes character in general? Remember, this was a person who, by virtue of his mastery of the techniques of observation and deduction, held at least a place of symbolic authority in Doyle's mind. So Holmes becomes symbolically his father!
Finally, what if all the above hypothetical factors did manifest and coalesce all at once, in the worst possible way, at the worst possible time for Doyle emotionally? Then could this sense of being forced back into writing the Holmes stories, and all the anger and resentment he was feeling, be focused onto Holmes? And then be expressed in, and even as, the story, as an act of spite, even a partially unconscious one?
If not some such circumstance, I find the story as it stands hard to reconcile with his body of work, interviews, etc.
1927. I am sure he was tired. See the comment about the original hand-written manuscript sold at Sotheby's.
Huzzah! Not a misprint for 3 Garridebs, as I first feared. But is one permitted to quote an 1890s writer penning "hideous mouth" without being prosecuted?
Interesting The Sherlock stories often mention a mouth as an indicator of cruelty or criminality.
❤️❤️❤️
Whatever our views on ACD authorship thank you for a superb narration. I personally think that this IS accredited to ACD, especially after reading: Sherlock Holmes _magpie _audio's brilliant reasoning further down this page.
Thanks for sharing!
I'll take anything Sherlock that's new to me and a decent story. I think tho it's Watson's narrative that's not quite Doyle
No I don’t think he wrote that one - it was terrible. They tried though, I’ll give them that.
"Sherlock" means "haircut". Hair is under Capricorn. Sherlock's birthday was in Capricorn.
Not a terrible story imo. I enjoyed the Jeremy Brett adaptation. The later Holmes stories are quite a bit different than the earlier ones. I suspect Doyle got really tired of writing them, even after Holmes's "resurrection" in "The Empty House".
The racial insensitivity is uncharacteristic of Doyle, especially when compared with stories like "The Yellow Face" and "The Five Orange Pips".
I had wondered for a while if you'd ever tackle this one, and I think you handled it with great aplomb.
The lady of the house clearly is a stubborn person, she keeps discounting good advice, how can she be so sure they were of no importance without having even checked, especially as these persons keep coming after the son's things came.
There is a cruel edge to Holmes that is very uncharacteristic in this story. Also, he compliments Watson TWICE and early on in the story. Tsk tsk. I notice the prose is much less eloquent. Where is the brooding? The meticulous investigation?
I would buy that ACD wrote an outline that someone else finished.... or.....?
Wonderful narration as always. 🙏🏿
It's enough to say there's something 'off' about it. Cheers Lisa.