Carving an Intonated Classical Guitar Saddle
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
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You should stretch new strings before setting intonation. It also greatly depends on how hard you press the string at the 12th fret
Excellent video on getting the intonation right on a classical guitar by meticulous carving of the saddle points. As an aside particularly to reduce wear and tear for the lower strings ie to lubricate/reduce friction over string contact points over both nut and saddle: try putting pencil graphite (a natural solid lubricant) into nut and saddle slots and contact areas/points. A sharp pencil is all that is required. [See Strat Talk for more details]. Downside: graphite is coloured, dark grey. Works for my electric guitar for string longevity.
I used a 4 mm stock bone and created a ledge for a 2mm saddle slot that extended backward so as to lengthen string to flatten sharps
Yeah, you can do it that way, though I have found in most cases where that is needed either the saddle slot is located in the wrong spot relative to the scale, or the strings are too high tension for the instrument. This solution is one I frequently need to use on cheap ukuleles. It may be possible to move the whole bridge on your guitar with a reglue or to make one with the saddle positioned better. Maybe even a plug and reroute.
The frame vice is friggin genius. Wish I would’ve seen this before forking over about $78 for a StewMac saddle vise. And Neil Young on classical… nice touch.
Yeah, I have thought on and off about getting one of those vices, but tbh, that frame vice has been working for me for about 20 years now. I got it for free, so I think that's really rad. The stew mac one is very nice though with broader application.
Nice work
If you want a litle more close entonation
Check on 2fret and 14
Not on 0-12 frets
Spell check
Good idea, since the nut intonation can be a problem--
Thank you.. learned a lot today
In other words his ability is in the tips of his fingers and thumbs, and cannot be transferred to you.
thank you for a very good explanation,best I have found.
Thank you!
My Hill guitar has a great sound, but my super high tension D’addario titaniums did a number on intonation at the higher frets. The string stiffness warranted extending the saddle to about 3.5 mm, thus the reason for using a cantilevered 4mm saddle fitted into a 2mm saddle slot.
Thanks Drew
I just finished making a new saddle for a classical guitar yesterday and found that fret board had a 20” radius darn near flat but not quite!
Interesting and instructive video
I had no idea you have to intonate for your strings of choice. I had good high-tension strings on my guitar, and while the intonation wasn't perfect, it wasn't screaming out-of-tune. Then I bought more expensive normal-tension D'Addario strings, and all of a sudden strings 3, 4, 6 got so pitchy (15-20 cents on the 12th fret) that I don't want to play the thing anymore. I guess I'll buy the same high-tension set and see if the intonation improves. Then I'll try improving it even more using your video. Thanks.
Yup. Its frustrating. I have done setups before at the shop where someone hands me a set, I set it up, they take it home and put some wildly different thing on it and then call me to tell me the intonation is off. It doesn't matter how many times I explain it.
i have extra high tension strings on my ibanez nylon thinline, with a neck that has less than ten thousandths of relief, and the action is nearly as low as a steel string, and probably the same as a high action steel string for someone who bangs away on the strings. it has a truss rod which makes things way easier for me
Great video !! I had to watch it all and take notes, I am setting up some classical guitars that have the same issues as some of the ones you described. My main player , a yamaha is showing some sitar like sounds on the d string. Didn't know if this is common or not. Now I think I can correct the issue. Thought it might have been a string issue, but the new strings did the same thing. Another guitar (cheap one) I'm repairing (kinda) for a give away, needs a new saddle set up. Didn't come with one. (Freeby guitar) .Thanks for your info & I hope I can use it for my benefit. !
I hope the info proves useful! I might do some more carving vids at some point. Nut carving has been one I have wanted to do for a while.
@@DrewsGuitarShop Hello, friend! Can you help me? I have a classical guitar with very bad intonation. I put a capo on the first fret and tuned it. And the intonation is perfect with capo. Do you know the problem with the guitar?
@@henrimavignier contact me through kofi if you would like help with this. I have a feeling it’s going to be more involved than I can or should get into in RUclips comments.
I need a saddle the also compensates for the height of the G string - because the diameter of the G and D are so much different.
64ths? 32nds? How can people live like that? There's a reason most countries reformed their unit systems last millennium.
That being said excellent information in this video.
I know, it's ridiculous. Just use millimeters!!
A lot of luthiers even some over seas still use these old units. I think its due to the age of the craft and the fact that 32nds of an ench are a slightly finer measurement unit. You also see imperial used in aerospace manufacture, I think for the same reasons. I am not here to stan for imperial, just give my thoughts on why we still use it here.
@@DrewsGuitarShop I suppose you're right, considering how old the craft is. At least these are standardized measurements, in the old old days people would just go by hand-lengths, finger-widths, or by measuring with their lower arms. It just seems jarring compared to the clear and simple metric system.
Amazing!
My saddle is straight and tightly fit and doesn't seem to have been adjusted before. 5 of the strings keep acceptable intonation but one, the 4th (D) is way off, like I guess about almost half a semitone flat at the 12th fret. This started like a month ago, never had happened before. Could it be just the string is too worn out? I can't understand how one string can have such bad intonation and the rest stay almost perfect. I don't know if I should start by changing the string or carving the saddle
I can understand it. Intonation problems on just one string are pretty common actually (though its usually just one you notice out of several.) What matters is that the contact point is in the correct spot and that the string is in good shape. If its indeed a new problem that just started like you say, the string is really the only thing I could think of outside of some other pretty catastrophic stuff like you bridge breaking or peeling up or something. In general, changing the strings can fix a lot of annoying minor issues.
Hi,
Great vieo.
Could you please explain what the white part added to the saddle used for?
It's to stop the strings from cuttting into and making a groove in the back of the wooden saddle
Are you referring to the tie block potion of the bridge? Nothing was added to the saddle here as saddles are usually...well...just saddles.
@@DrewsGuitarShop right... wooden bridge, not wooden saddle
Great video! I recently got a GK Studio Negra and I really like it. Im considering removing the under saddle piezo pickup and fitting a new bone saddle that makes full contact with the bridge/soundboard. I want to improve the intonation as well which led me to your video. I know people debate about whether that actually improves the sound/tone or does anything at all. Just curious if you have an opinion on that. Thanks
Glad to see it's not just me when compensating the d and g to pretty much the max and they're still fretted sharp... ☝️😂 D was 2 cents and the G 3-4 cents... what now if so? Is that the best one can do without moving the bridge or compensating at the nut? I cannot rest until i have perfect intonation at least at the 12th fret... 🤔
I mean, IMO, why not update the design? We have been building the same concert classical for what now, 150 years or so? Maybe we oughta look at what can be done to improve it with modern knowledge and tools.
Next best is doing what you can with the nut and saddle.
@@DrewsGuitarShop valid point... just hope a new design won't need those wonky true temperment frets... 😖... that said... a certain beauty lies in the fact that it is an imperfect instrument...
I guess you meant an action of 5/16ths on the bass side?
What happens to the intonation when the strings make their own grove in the saddle and should the saddle be replaced or crown sanded until the groves are removed ?
Don’t sand your saddle, thats not how that issue is corrected. As for what it does, it lowers the string hight and will effect tone and intonation. Maybe cause buzzing.
The saddle slots should be narrow/deep or wide/shallow in general? Mine seems wide/shallow so they can move, so I am thinking to make them deeper to hold the strings, but was told that may impact the sound. So which is better - narrow/deep or wide/shallow? Thanks for any info from anyone.
I am not sure what you mean here. Are you talking about the slot in the bridge in which the saddle sits or are you proposing cutting slots into the saddle? If its in reference to the slot in the bridge that the saddle sits in, the saddle should fit snugly, but not overly tight. If you are talking about cutting slots into the saddle for the strings to sit in, don't. Thats not a thing. Saddles on non-archtop guitars do not get slotted. Any time you see that some amateur has been up to no good.
@@DrewsGuitarShop Thank you for the info. I am talking about the slot on saddle. My string can move and the slots seem too shallow so I cut them deep but told that make the sound bad, so confused. So you think No Slot Cut on saddle fo string? But then the strings may move. My saddle is too low and want to buy another one, but confused with String Slots on saddle. Anyway thanks.
@@coolinva Classical guitar saddles should *not* be slotted for the strings. That is not how you deal with the problem you are describing. What you have is either a break angle that is too low because the saddle is too low, and or a bad neck angle causing the situation at your saddle to be bad. What my video about neck resets if you want more info about neck angles.
As a general rule, you do *not* slot saddles on guitars. Its not how to properly solve the issues. There is always a better way to handle it.
@@DrewsGuitarShop Thank you very much and really appreciated. Yes, my saddle is too low and I will get a new one soon and try without slots for strings. Thanks again for the help.
Thank you for the well done video. Do you think it's possible to achieve intonation, like you did in the video, if the slot isn't slightly slanted forward near the high strings like some bridges ?? In other words if the slot is straight, and the bridge is about .10" (2.8mm) thick, is there enough thickness to intonate all the strings ? Or do you strongly recommend using a bridge with a slanted slot ? (I broke my guitar's bridge by trying to force an over-thick saddle into it and have to replace it). Would be most grateful for a reply. Thanks.
That actually is probably even better. The higher the saddle, typically, the more you want the contact points moved back to compensate for the higher resulting tension. If I am not mistaken, that is why the saddles in modern classical guitars angle back like that.
Thanks Drew. Problem is my choice of saddle is between a better quality straight or lesser quality slanted. Sounds either should work with varying degrees of flexibility?
@@michaelduddy4119 Both will be fine. Get the one you want to choose. I do not advise on subjective decisions.
How much does a job like this cost? Nut and sadle? Thanks
Where can I get a blank saddle from? Especially one that's the right size
You make one the right size with a flat sanding board and patience. Start with an over size one. Google can point you to a number of good sellers. I am not sure who would be closest for you.
Thanks for the amazing video! I was wondering why you are not (palm) muting other strings when you measure or tune a certain string? I think the other strings will resonate along and influence your findings? Could that also be part of the reason some strings are hard to read, going from flat to sharp? My experience is that sometimes tuning is easier with other strings muted.
The tuner I have here is a little quirky. I’ve had it in the shop for like 11 years. Sometimes it likes reading some frequencies better than others and I also have train tracks near the shop that creat low frequency sound pollution that make it really act up. I guess I don’t palm mute when doing this because the goal isn’t tone precise so much as it is to be close and to get the temperament more dialed in. When I do electric intonation I have foam mutes I use for isolating the string I’m working on.
@Drew Jones I see, thanks for your reply and sharing your craftmanship. I've intonated my G string by using your video as a lead in combination with an online tuner. The G string was way too sharp, so I filed a slope in the saddle at the G string and now it's almost perfect. The guitar sounds _way_ better now, thanks a lot!
🤗🤗
Why add the 2 1/2 minute ad prior to your video. I turned it off
Are you talking about the ads that RUclips puts on videos? If so, you should realize that is not from the channel.
Exactly the information I needed. (But you can actually play Blackbird on a classical?)