Thank you so much for your English speaking German topic railway series. I've been a Marklinista for 50 years and the lack of detailed prototype information in English has been a real hindrance. So much so that I'm slowly learning Deutsch. Your channel is a breath of fresh air. Best wishes to you.
I have 6 Fleishman locomotives operating on my UK layout. I bought them in the 1990's and they still run perfectly with minimal maintenance. They by far, out perform all my UK manufacture products both in operation and detail. Great video, thank you.
Yes , I do mix the scales. The Flieshman locos look good on hauling UK freight stock. I justify the DB and DR locos by stating that the Channel Tunnel opened in the 1930s. I struggle to justify my American locos, but modellers license allows anything to run. Best wishes to you.
In school, as now 76, a friend had a huge Marklin Set and a room for the purpose, so we produced a large landscape in it, and with its controls in the middle, with houses, a ferry, mountains and tunnels! We had great fun finding solutions for all problems! Also building houses. Finn. Denmark
I was born and raised in Germany,my grandparents raised me,my grandfather started me with Fleischman, I'm 74 now and still have the locomotives and rolling stock and the faller houses, my layout is in a 10X16 room,in a kind of a way I wish that he would have decided on marklin,for one reason,no reverse loops,but I worked it out,but Fleischman or marklin both are good choices, the best thing about model trains is that it's all creativity and imagination and there is always something that can be added, I'm not a real stickler about actual rail lines,the way I look at it is to have fun and enjoying the hobby, when I work on my layout I totally shut out the craziness etc.of the outside world, it's a great way to spend a rainy day as well,so there it,so have lots of fun.
The #1 rule of model railroading is: It's your layout, you can do what you like to do to have fun. The #2 rule is: if anyone disagrees, refer to rule #1.
I have Fleischmann HO stock , mostly analogue . I think the 01 catalogue no 4169 is my favourite . It came pre-owned on EBay . In mint condition but didn’t mention it was fitted with a smoke element . This makes perfect smoke rings ! I then bought another from the same seller , again a non mentioned smoke unit . The previous O1 cat number 4170 is also excellent , although it is in a slightly bigger scale . I love all the double deck Swiss trains in my collection and I added a Roco class 146 ( I have only a few Roco). So maybe some Hamo in the future 😊
I really enjoyed the comparison between these two beautiful locomotives. I’m new to your channel and looking forward to watching your future content and passed. 👍
This brings back memories. Among my young friends in the early 80's, the detail of both Fleischmann and Roco was considered better. But we all also had brand loyalty to marklin. I think we conceived of the metal construction of marklin as being higher quality even if it was less detailed. And, at ages 10-12, slow speed running was not a priority!
I agree with your comments that Fleischmann and Roco models have more detail and I run a few of these Locos on my Marklin system. But apart from brand loyalty I think it's the whole Marklin concept and history that is the attraction and why we collect these items and go back for more.
A very surprising locomotive that Fleischmann 1179 is! It could be a very welcome addition to my track, I'll have to look out for it at auctions (locally or the internet). I love that it runs so smooth and quiet.
As always a great review even though I don’t share your conclusions, to be honest I am Märklin al the way into my hart.and I really dislike tender drives In my opinion they are just not right. But that’s a matter of taste. Great video thanks for sharing.
I own a large number of non-Märklin locos for the AC system. Among them are steam locomotives (only steam!) from Trix, Roco, Piko, Fleischmann, Liliput, Kleinbahn, Klein Modellbahn, Westmodel and others. The motivation to buy them was not so much the comparison to the models from Märklin, but the completion of my collection. Because there are also steam locomotives that Märklin never built. Or did not produce it for a long time. For example, the fantastic tank locomotive VI c of the Grand Duchy of Baden State Railway. I own 4 different copies of them from the Viennese company Liliput. All in Länderbahn livery and numbering. My interest is less in the concrete driving characteristics. After all, we are in the field of technical toys, not in the field of technical demonstration objects 1/87 for the use of industrial customers who want to buy a Loco of them in 1/1 scale! Likewise, I am not one of the so-called "rivet counters" who constantly have to compare and measure the model with the prototype in order to get satisfaction. I want to have a historical overview of German steam locomotive construction from 1840 to 1963, from the first locomotive built in Germany (the "Saxonia" from Dresden) to the last Bundesbahn and Reichsbahn locomotives of the sixties. And of course, all machines should be able to run on the AC system. Just for fun!🚅🚅By the way: the locomotives of Austria also belong to this collection area, because the Danube Monarchy was a part of the German Confederation until 1867, and thus a part of Germany like Bavaria, Hanover, and all other German states as well. Some of the most beautiful steam locomotives come from Austria, designed by Karl Gölsdorf.
Looks like you have a nice collection theme.I find Austria interesting too, not because of the German connection, but because of the variety of what ran on the railways over the years. Thanks for spending some your valuable here today.
Thanks for this comparison, as a purchaser of 2nd hand Fleishmann models, I run a wild mix of 2 rail HO and OO scale train models on my pretend heritage layout. Malkin are rarely available and I can't run them, but I have always guessed that Malkin were the best quality models. So Roco and Fleishmann are the best!!!
Thanks for stopping by. Märklin sold 2-rail versions of a choice of its models under the HAMO brand, of which you'll find plenty of on eBay UK at mostly reasonable prices. I am only comparing 2 models here, and wouldn't go as far as saying that one brand's entire production is better than the other as a result. What does better mean anyway? My better might be completely different from someone else's. In this case this was almost too close to call. What matters is to have fun running them, and both deliver in this respect.
Hello, Enjoyable fun video (and interesting), thanks! I'm back into Märklin since 14 months after some 40+ years of absence. In my early days, I only had LFCM and SFCM motors, which are reliable and enjoyable when given proper TLC, and provide much better speed control. Over the past year I first got acquainted with the DCM motor and Märklin's rudimentary loco electronics. I was shocked at the way these respond to the transformer setting, the ugly sound they make and such. Speed control is much like you demonstrated with this steam loco today. All of this led me to experiment with PWM control again, as I did in the early days, including modifying the models a bit to match my system. I mean extremely subtle and reversible modifications, above all still fully analogue! Anyway I hope to be able to enjoy the DCM models better this way. The LFCM and SFCM models happily comply already and are a joy to operate this way. In any case, thanks and enjoy summer!
Model railways was almost a given amongst the males in my family, Like many I started at 14 with a simple starter set . And for me in the early to mid 1980's I picked up a second hand AC Roco loco which led to me being unfaithful to the Marklin brand when something interesting came along, with Can motor cardan shafts worm gears and near silent drive compared to the grinding motors and buzz jerk reversing as was common at the time from Marklin, but best of all I had access to models I was interested in that were not in the Marklin range. I'm now in my 60's and building my 4th layout but due to available space it will be smaller than the last two, but will contain an Analogue line a digital line and a separate analogue block for independent shunting operations using two small electric units operating independently from catenary and able to cross the two main lines unhindered. Your videos are a great source of information.
Very interesting comparison….subscribed. I agree with you about original reliability versus 2 rail. I was always very disappointed with the Märklin Schienenbus being merely a representation. The Fleischmann catalogues were always retouched pictures…then I discovered ROCO with the detail, albeit plastic housing. Anyway, they are all in my Vitrine now and I love everyone of my models reminding me of my annual visits to my Oma and Opa in Bochum and Oberaudorf….and now I’m 74 and no one will be interested in them anyway when I’ve gone to the happy sidings in the sky😂🇬🇧D
Great analysis! From a Marklinist point of view a tender driven steam engine is unthinkable.This setup may explain the low noise and low speed running but i prefer the gear noise and the realistic power transmission. I have two fleischmann 3rail, a BR 65 (1d2) and a sncf 68001 which are great engines from the 70's I guess. The lilliput 3 rails (P8 in po midi and alsace lorraine are not quite the same quality)
You'd need the motor at the front of a steam locomotive, with the power transmitted to the cylinders for a realistic power delivery 😉 But I too like gear noises, I collect Märklin after all... Yet, the enthusiasm for a make often leads to ignoring the competition, so It is not bad to show other ways of doing things from time to time. This re-establishes a good perspective on things... Take care.
Interesting. I like the Marklin a bit better. To me, it replicates normal operation better than the Fleischmann. The worm-gear drive on the smaller wheels, give the Fleischmann a bit more torque and slower speed operation, but the Marklin, with its main drivers powered, acts more natural on grades, with a more steam locomotive-style operation. Both are quite nice, though. I'm an O gauge operator, but I enjoy watching all scales. An excellent video.
Thank you for this interesting comparison! I am now subscribed to your channel. On the subject of windows, I think you could remanufcacture the yellowed window plastics with a resin 3D printer using clear resin. The window plastics would have to be 3D modeled, which would be a very simple task. Btw, I love your correct pronounciation of Märklin and Fleischmann, a rare occurrence in English language model railway videos. I learned German at school as my third foreign language after English and Swedish. My mother tongue is Finnish. I am a translator by trade. A working knowledge of German is great to have. Keep up the good work!
Welcome aboard. 3D printing/modelling -> Not quite ready to invest 100s of £/$/€ to make windows... Additionally, something is only simple if you already know how to do it... The shape is a bit more complicated than a simple square... But who knows, one day maybe. Thanks for the visit!
I have been hanging out to see a comparison between these two manufacturers (as the majority I can find are not in English - I'm a bit limited). Thanks so much for taking the time. I have three (smaller) Fleischmann units on my Marklin M-Track layout and find them much the same, heavy and very capable. I've noticed also that they appear 'taller' than the Marklin similar loco - but I have a set of the Fleischmann 5091/2 six wheel coaches that alongside the Marklin 4080/81 units look ridiculous - bulky, tall and almost overpowering. One of the manufacturers version of 1/87 was out! The Fleischmann carriages almost match some old Hornby OO coaches in dimension.
Glad you found it useful. Better be capable, the stuff wasn't cheap when new 😀 Having looked things up this evening, Fleischmann used a larger scale in its early days by the looks of it. The BR 50s were 1/85. I am only regurgitating wikipedia, so don't hold me to it... Thanks for the visit.
I am SO pleased to meet a site for Märklin railways that uses english! :-). I am new to HO Trix coming from Hornby, but I wondered if either of these two,manufacturers use a flywheel attached to their motors? Please forgive my lack of knowledge.
Welcome aboard! No flywheel on the models in this video. The situation is different with recent marklin models (2010 onwards...), I think anything above entry level fitted with a "can" motor today is likely to have one.
Back in the 60's I had jumble sale find, a Hornby Dublo three rail A4 with smoke feature. Only having a Tri-ang layout, I tried it out on my friend's the 'rail' layout, well, studs. Placed on track, power on, no movement but lots of smoke!
Excellent comparison! Did Fleischmann have a seperate brochure for AC models? I cannot remember that I ever noticed AC models in Fleischmann catalogues.
I noticed that you said that the Fleischman model was DC. All my Märklin HO is AC. But some is not? I know of their two-rail Hamo line,but I don't have a lot of experience. You are right about Fleischman being slightly larger than HO scale (1:87). I have some wagons made in US Zone Germany by Fleischman that are even larger than 1:85! Keep in mind that early models by Märklin and Trix Express in the 1930s are scaled under 1:87, being something like 1:90 or so. Over the years, I have aquired a few items of this sort, and although the gauge is HO, the scale is not!😅 Great video! I'm subscribed! (By the way, I know that the models in your analysis are from a later period, but offer some early possible origins to odd issues of scale discrepancies).😊
I think you might have fast forwarded/skipped a few times during the video 😉 About the scale, sure, 1/87 only becane a thing in the mid to late 50s, and even then, it was more a goal to aim for. Models progressively shrunk towards the scale in the decades that followed. Welcome aboard! Thanks for the visit!
@@The3rdRail Sorry for not getting to thank you for your reply, I am new to this and learning . No, don't worry, I know not to skip , I think I should just re-watch it without trying to multitask! Thanks, from California.
@@peterkordziel7047 No need to thank/apologise... My reply was just a bit of humour... Strictly speaking, Märklin used universal motors on a 3-rail system (what most people call AC motors). These motors can run on both AC and DC. It just happened that Marklin used AC to power the track. In 3300 and 3500 series locomotives, the AC from the track was even converted to DC by the (pre-)reversing unit and used to power the universal motor. Anything you buy today works this way too, and marklin stopped using AC all together on the track since the introduction of the MS1/CS1 almost 30 years ago, but they were wise enough to make their products AC compatible for use with the 1000s of analogue AC transformers still around in the wild 😀 Märklin used DC CAN motors in some of their models when space constraints required it. This happened as early as 1975 with the 3077 Zeppelin where a can motor was used for the propeller. They then used the same type of motors in the 0050 50 years of H0 set and the 3125 Red Arrow in 1985. The practice became more common in the following years, you'll find a can motor in most entry level products and a large amount of premium models in combination with flywheels and cardan shafts/worm gears today. Take care.
My father selected Fleischmann for me. My understanding was that Marklin was way more expensive. And I knew quickly that the locomotives would not run on Marklin and vice versa. I did a lot of building as far as my allowance would permit. Loved it..but grew out of it. Some stayed on…I graduated to building model aircraft with small diesel powered engines. And ended up in the airline industry. Did get around to get my trains out when my son was at the appropriate age…he moved on to computers…times change.
Excellent and interesting comparison. Somehow your new vid showed up Monday late afternoon here, but no matter since it's quite relaxing for winding down the day. Actually, Fleischmann having produced 3-rail version is a surprise to us. Roco have but (former) F is new to us. F's motor seems to better cater for crawling whilst M's for torque. Both never went well on those older motors; either good at crawl but less power, or powerful but less low speed control. Modern micro motors do much better now fortunately. But yeah, an interesting head-to-head. We'd go for the M since we value torque a tad higher, but the F looks wonderful. Cheerio.
🤔 M doesn't have the upper end on torque in this case, am a bit confused... I don't know about other models if this is what you meant. Thanks for the visit, glad I could help you unwind.🤗 PS. The video went out later than usual, this could explain the delay in notification.
@@The3rdRail On wait, we just thought that F sharply slowing down when starting the incline is correlated to torque, and that a motor with higher torque will actually slow down much less (M) under same conditions. Similarly, the old motors with high torque less able to crawl slowly since the power kicks in more suddenly and less controlled. At least that's what we have always learnt, but do correct of course.
I think I might have to ☺️ The sharp speed decrease at the beginning is caused by the worm gears used for the transmission with F, they can lock in a sudden load change situation, the motor draws more power to unlock then accelerates to stabilise at a constant speed all the way up the ramp - > high torque. The M motor slows down under load and progressively decelerates along the ramp as the load on the motor increases to then pick up speed as the train engages more and more on the level section at the top and the load decreases-> low torque. The F model can climb the ramp at 85 which is about 9-10v, the M model barely manages the ramp at 100, i think about 11-12v. So F manages more than M with less available power -> higher torque.
Dos cosas, interesante esta comparación y gracias por subir 1- con el caso del amarilleo de las ventanas, se deben sacar de la cabina y sumergirlas en agua oxigenada o que las cubra bien en esa agua que sea a 10 volúmenes o más si se puede conseguir, ponerlas al sol dos días o más, ahí las va a revisar usted y en caja transparente cerrada, algo ayuda a blanquear eso al estar expuestas a la luz UV. .2- Luego veo que la Fleischmann pese a tener motor Buhler, no le pusieron volante, eso ayudaría más a suavizar la marcha a bajas RPM, Saludos.
Thanks for the comment and visit. Other people have commented along the same line about the motor and "retrobright". Did you ever try the brightening yourself on locomotive windows?
Wonderful video as always (although I'd have pushed the detail comparison bit a bit further, à-la Sam's Trains style). In any case, IMHO it's the loco that has to do the pulling, not the tender. I give transmission-shaft driven locos a pass, but the tender-driven only ones are automatically a fail for my tastes.
This seems to be a quite widespread opinion indeed, which I happen to share, yet this very tender runs very well... Food for thought... Sam who? I shall bear in mind for a future video, but this will mean lots of effort to get my english up to the level required 😀 Thanks for the visit!
@@The3rdRail Please do check out his reviews, just for the pleasure of watching them (you two have different styles, which is just fine). Thank you for sharing with us this great content! :)
The one and only (small) disadvantage of the Fleischmann loco that I spottet was in the Walschaert's gear: The eccentric rod almost doesn't move, perhaps because the eccentric crank wasn't mounted properly.
It seems that the struggle of the Fleischmann model on radius 1 curves does not bother you... and did you notice the separately fitted details - yeah, the silver ones - on the Märklin model, that are molded and black on the Fleischmann one? Nice video tough, I've happily subscribed. I'm tired of those english DC/OO scale videos, with their Hornby-ble models. And of course, my first and only trains were Märklin on M-rails xD
The Fleischmann doesn't struggle on radius one, it just runs slower than the marklin model at the same transformer setting. This applies to any radius, ramp or straight. I concentrated on the obvious stuff for the details, the video would have been too long otherwise, the same applies for the different track systems I talk about at the beginning of the video for example, I left some stuff out there too... Thanks for the visit!
This channel is not for beginners. Its was very hard to understand what u ment in this video. But its ok, hope people with knowlegde of model trains enjoy your video
You are right: It is a comparison between 2 locomotives, and pre-supposes a certain level of knowledge. It could be compared to a car review I guess: the typical review will give informations about the car, but no basic explanation on the working principles of a motor or a clutch. I do cover working principles in other types of videos on the channel, little helpers for example. Thanks again for the feedback.
@@The3rdRail Happy u like my feedback. I love when people with huge amount of knowledge makes videos and share it with other people. Sometimes they forget many people have not even close to their knowlegde, so they talks "over head" (its a expressesion in norway), so people dont understand whay they are talking about. I really hope u will get many subs in your channel, because i thinks it will be usefull for people who have more interests of model trains than i do. Keep up the good working with your videos. Im sure people will love it
Time to analize your recent post again! The picture was not the tender of the 3005. Now I've seen this, so would be 2 possibilities left: The Fleischmann 1179 or the Märklin 3315. One of the major differances between those 2 is the location for drive. So, I looked at the picture from the post and when you look closely, you can see the traction rubber on 2/4 wheels. So my final guess is... your Fleischmann 1179! 👑
Very interesting. Saw a programme about Hornby and their rivals complained that they were being undercut, even though their models were more detailed. Horses for courses
I think the problem with Hornby nowadays is that as soon they hear someone is making something, they rush to do the same model and try and get it out before everyone else... very aggessive and not nice at all... Marklin was a bit more subtle...
@@The3rdRail The Class 66 is a case in point. It's absolutely horrific. It's only possible purpose is as a market segment 'spoiler'. People felt sorry for Simon Kohler when he was 'retired'. But it very much seemed he had driven that tactic.
Many reviewers often complain about wheel-slip (not that you did) & tender driven locomotives don't experience it, though the tender might. Most films of trains I have ever seen, including Hollywood/European films show steam locomotives' wheels slipping at start up or on grades.
Ah, the Märklin class 50 with its cute hamster cheeks 😍 Also on 44 and 012, only smaller because they are bigger so the motor needs less additional space. I've read that some Fleischmann models are bigger than 1:87 but I only have some passenger and freight cars from them.
I don't have any Fleischmann stock. I have Marklin and Rocco. The Rocco is just as detailed and well made as the Marklin locos. All my Marklin locos are made in Germany and the Rocco locos are all made in Austria.
Might be a stupid question but a middle mounted contact point on a Fleishman? I always thought these had the wheel pick ups? Is this a range of models compatible with marklins system? Or did I just miss the fact Fleishman makes also models with this set up?😅
Hello the Third Rail! I’m curious if there is a way to let non-märklin locos run on Märklin rails, and I’m referring to the locos with two rail running systems (although I only have official Märklin locomotives for my small layout, I’m just curious as to if this is possible) so if you know how, would you maybe want to explain how to do it? Love the content and I hope you can reply. Yours truly, Jordyvt08
yes, it is possible, what to depends on the loco, but you'll need to install a pickup shoe and an electronic reverser or decoder at a minimum. Glad you enjoy the content.
When I was a kid (I am 68 now), I was running Lima and Rivarossi engines in DC and Marklin in AC, at the same time. The DC was through the catenary, and the AC was through the center contacts. By chance I discovered that I could have a "common" wire between the two system (the brown), and the hot wire (the red) to the respective places (catenary for DC and 3rd rail for AC). You should have seen the confusion from my friends when I ran the Marklin electrics with pan up 😆
@@lellopesce Yes I have run DC Locos on the overhead whilst running AC through the centre rail with common return through the rails with no ill effect.
Did not know that Fleischmann used its ringfield motor not in every model. My first thoughts were that you have got an "improved" piece, but I found a spare parts sheet from Fleischmann with this motor. There actually had been tender-propelled locos with its famous ringfield motor.
What? You didn't trust me? 😀😀😀😀 I did mention the tender was a 1980s development with a different motorisation and transmission (04:35 and 12:20). Thanks for the visit!
Salut! Both lovely models but the Fleischmann seems to be much more "modern" than the Maerklin. I'm also wondering about the motors and transmisssion. The Maerklin (if I remember rightly) was a three pole motor which makes starting much more jerky and sudden. Is the Fleischmann a five pole motor by any chance? That would account for the much smoother starting and better pulling power on grades. The straight non-articulated frame also does not seem to cause major problems either. A flywheel would also mitigate the tendency of worm drives to stop suddenly. But what really interested me was the brief appearance of the articulated railbus. I would love to see that in more detail. Perhaps you have enough railbuses and schienen buses to have a little running session! A bientot...
Hi, as far as I know, the Fleischmann motor is a 3-pole motor, as is the Marklin motor. I think the difference in performance is down to the type: one is a DC motor with permanent magnets, the other is a universal motor. The latter requires a more power to get going (the rotor and field coils both need power) and slows down under load, that is simply down to its working principle. I thought about the flywheel too, but looking at the space available in the tender, I think it would have been difficult for Fleischmann to put one in and I think it might have required some form of cardan shaft on one side. You can see more of the red Micheline railbus in the "Drawer Queens" video I made before this one. I think I have most of the railbusses from the 1980s catalogues so I could try a knock a small session together at some point, stay tuned!
Everything (I think) on 16.5mm tracks started as 00. 1/87 scale only became a widely accepted industry standard in the 1950s in Europe, and the term H0 replaced 00 in catalogues. 1:87 was aspirational back then, the models progressively shrunk until the 1980s. The fleischmann model in this video is 1/85.
As the saying goes, one learns something new every day... If I find a Fleischmann model with pancake motor I can compare to an equivalent marklin model, may be some day...
FLEISCHMANN was not only a producer of modelrailways, but a producer of tools as well. The quality was superior above MÄRKLIN of that time,but you have to admit, that the scale was 1:85 instead of 1:87.! HORNBY und so one from UK , you could forget about it !!
@@class77sncb I also didn't mention Trix express, Tri-Ang, Lilliput, Lima, Jouef, Athearn, Lifelike, MTH, Kato and many more... Because that isnt the point of the video. Thanks for the visit.
That Fleischmann is beautiful😍. You can cut real glass for the windows. I am going to replace the windows on my rare 1/12th Markie living van as part of installing a full scaled interior.
@@The3rdRail Ah, I see. I used an 8 bit ADC-converter for this already in the 80's that was just using step-down in 7 bits for the speed. Only in emergency-brake mode, all lights and switches performed this way on the mainlines. the 8th bit was for direction-control (with a direction-relay). For automatic mode, I used a simple CBM64, but could also be done with the printerport of a PC (thus, also TTL, 5V 8bits) in later versions. The most difficult switch with light was the automated X-switch in the middle of 3 mainlines, combined with 2 other electrified switches. Since the direction on the lines and speeds could be opposite from both crossing-lines and the middle-line, with very short blocks, it meant that the other 2 crossing-blocks could only be in 'full emergency-stop' when one train was crossing from track C to A (track B in the middle). I would normally only program that to be switching when the train on track B was already stationed at the station or had left the block for some time. But if not, it would be a really fast stop. Too bad I don't have video's of that trainboard which needed to be broken down for building-activities at the room later. Programming was always a bit crude in that time, with very limited memory (yes, 64K for program and data on the CBM64, loading from tape, later up to 640K on the PC with floppy-disks). Sequences were 2 bytes. Where first byte was 'where' and second byte was 'what'. So first was block-code with line (something like 001 00001 for first block at line A and 001 00010 for the second block on the same line) and then second byte was speed like 0 1111111 for full speed in normal direction and 0 0001000 for about half speed in the same direction. This was all just a big textfile to be visialized later but actually quite easy to do when you have the numbers in your head since it was just a bit of counting. For switches I had a simular code and it was all just sequences with delays and waiting for certain conditions like a train that triggered a location.
Sounds exciting 😉 People don't realise today what could be done with a commodore 64 and a few brain cells. I use ESP8266 wifi microcontrollers coupled with some accessory controllers I developped with an application I wrote in NodeRed for control, routing and automation
maybe this is a false memory, but I remember that Fleischmann would have been an East German brand. in any case, it was of lower quality, more plastic, than Märklin. in addition, it had a different power supply; one rail supplied + and the other was ground
Fleischmann were based in Nürnberg, in West Germany. The few wagons I had in my hands a few years back looked great to me. I think you were thinking about Piko, which was the East German brand of the time.
AI correct me too: 'Fleischmann’s Origin: Fleischmann was not an East German brand; it was founded in Nuremberg, Germany, in 1887. Quality Compared to Märklin: Comparing the quality of Fleischmann and Märklin is subjective. Both are well-known German model train manufacturers, but Märklin is often considered higher quality, especially due to its three-rail system. Power Supply: Fleischmann models primarily use a two-rail system, where one rail is positive and the other is negative. Märklin, on the other hand, uses a three-rail system, where the center rail acts as the power conductor.'
You can make the crawl speed of a Marklin better if you change the carbon brush with a copper brush. Ofcourse it will now also be faster on high speed setting.
I have to disagree I am afraid... You will destroy the commutator... Not a good idea... The copper brush's purpose is to prevent the accumulation of graphite on the commutator. It does this through friction. If 2 copper brushes are used, the commutator will warm up, and its surface will deteriorate though abrasion. The graphite brush lubricates the commutator, which balances the effect of the copper brush on the surface out. But, the opposite would work and would make the loco slower. In the 50s Marklin actually sold pairs of carbon brushes as an option, I think this was reference 497/3 LP, later 60030. Marklin switched to graphite only brushes when they changed from cylindrical to cubic/square brushes.Thanks for the visit!
@@The3rdRail I know it is not good for the commutator but with a lower voltage you will make the train crawl . So for locomotives doing only station work it can be used to make it look better. 2 carbon brushes would make it slower but would it make even harder to make it crawl I think. I'll give it a try.
The heusinger doesn't move? You mean the long vertical silver bit? That bit didnt move in the real thing either I believe, I think it is meant to represent a guide painted red on the real locos. This bit is missing from the Märklin model. For the rest, we are venturing in the apples and pairs territory imho... Thanks for the visit and for sharing your thoughts 🙏
@The3rdRail I actually meant the main valve connector actuating rod from the driver. If you watch the märklin one you'll see it does have it vaguely geometrically correct at 90° forward off the centre: they're quite hypnotic to watch, and on the fleischmann it appears to be just centred on the driver axle and isn't hypnotic at all. Good point about the apples and oranges, although it is possibly testament to change in both the fleischmann and märklin markets.
@The3rdRail I'm a goat anyway: I often flick through every video you've done umpteen times and I am, of course, watching the one with your 3047 and 3048 so you know all about it anyway. So I'll just remain quiet in the cheap seats...
Trix express in the UK TTR Trix Twin Railways was also a (DC) 3 rail system. The DC 3 rail system had the advantage 2 locomotives could be seperatly controled by 2 controllers on 1 piece of track (with additional overhead line 3) Later EMS controlers doubled it to 4 and 6 with additional overhead line. Märklin also had a 2 rail DC line sold under the brand name Hamo. Trix express had a 2 rail DC line under the brand name Trix International Today as we all now due to mergers and bankrupcies Trix and Märklin (merged 1997) belong recently to the Simba Dickie toy group Trix express/TTR/International and Hamo are defunct, the Märklin (H0) brand is used for the 3 rail AC system and (Mini)Trix for the 2 rail DC system. Ofcourse non H0 gauge like f.e Märklin Z has also a DC 2 rail system Fleischmann today only produces N scale (piccolo) models.
We have watched the same videos 😀 This is usually done on beige computer cases and keyboards. I have watched a Adam Savage video in which he tried it on clear plastic and it didn't work. Hence my question. Thanks for the suggestion though.
Thank you so much for your English speaking German topic railway series. I've been a Marklinista for 50 years and the lack of detailed prototype information in English has been a real hindrance. So much so that I'm slowly learning Deutsch. Your channel is a breath of fresh air. Best wishes to you.
Happy to hear you find it helpful! Mission accomplished! Thanks for the visit, and "like, share, subscribe" as they say... Until next time.
I have 6 Fleishman locomotives operating on my UK layout. I bought them in the 1990's and they still run perfectly with minimal maintenance. They by far, out perform all my UK manufacture products both in operation and detail. Great video, thank you.
Glad you liked it. Thanks for spending some of your valuable time here today.
Do you mix 1/87 with 1/76?
Yes , I do mix the scales. The Flieshman locos look good on hauling UK freight stock. I justify the DB and DR locos by stating that the Channel Tunnel opened in the 1930s. I struggle to justify my American locos, but modellers license allows anything to run. Best wishes to you.
In school, as now 76, a friend had a huge Marklin Set and a room for the purpose, so we produced a large landscape in it, and with its controls in the middle, with houses, a ferry, mountains and tunnels! We had great fun finding solutions for all problems! Also building houses. Finn. Denmark
Sounds like this brought quite a few memories back. Thanks for the visit!
I was born and raised in Germany,my grandparents raised me,my grandfather started me with Fleischman, I'm 74 now and still have the locomotives and rolling stock and the faller houses, my layout is in a 10X16 room,in a kind of a way I wish that he would have decided on marklin,for one reason,no reverse loops,but I worked it out,but Fleischman or marklin both are good choices, the best thing about model trains is that it's all creativity and imagination and there is always something that can be added, I'm not a real stickler about actual rail lines,the way I look at it is to have fun and enjoying the hobby, when I work on my layout I totally shut out the craziness etc.of the outside world, it's a great way to spend a rainy day as well,so there it,so have lots of fun.
Right on! Rule 1 of model railways: they are your trains you do what you want with them. What matters is to enjoy them. Thanks for your time today!
The #1 rule of model railroading is: It's your layout, you can do what you like to do to have fun.
The #2 rule is: if anyone disagrees, refer to rule #1.
I have Fleischmann HO stock , mostly analogue . I think the 01 catalogue no 4169 is my favourite . It came pre-owned on EBay . In mint condition but didn’t mention it was fitted with a smoke element . This makes perfect smoke rings ! I then bought another from the same seller , again a non mentioned smoke unit . The previous O1 cat number 4170 is also excellent , although it is in a slightly bigger scale . I love all the double deck Swiss trains in my collection and I added a Roco class 146 ( I have only a few Roco). So maybe some Hamo in the future 😊
thanks for the visit.
Een hele mooie video.
Mooi om te zien die twee massadonten BR 50ers.
Bedankt voor deze fantastische video.
Glad you liked it!
Excellent and informative video as always. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for popping by today.
I have always liked the Fleischmann range and this shows me why. Thanks for another great video.
Thanks for watching!
I really enjoyed the comparison between these two beautiful locomotives. I’m new to your channel and looking forward to watching your future content and passed. 👍
Welcome aboard!
Really great video! I enjoyed it!
Thank you very much!
This brings back memories. Among my young friends in the early 80's, the detail of both Fleischmann and Roco was considered better. But we all also had brand loyalty to marklin. I think we conceived of the metal construction of marklin as being higher quality even if it was less detailed. And, at ages 10-12, slow speed running was not a priority!
playground conversations... good old days...
I agree with your comments that Fleischmann and Roco models have more detail and I run a few of these Locos on my Marklin system. But apart from brand loyalty I think it's the whole Marklin concept and history that is the attraction and why we collect these items and go back for more.
You can make the crawl speed of a Marklin better if you change the carbon brush with a copper brush.
A very surprising locomotive that Fleischmann 1179 is! It could be a very welcome addition to my track, I'll have to look out for it at auctions (locally or the internet). I love that it runs so smooth and quiet.
They come up quite regulalry at the moment.
@@The3rdRail And they were most probably built in my home town (Nuremberg).
Have a cool Rotbier or Tucher and a few "Nürnberger Bratwürste" for me 😋
helt enig jeg har mye n skala fleischmann n og markln z liker de best , det er så gode ta på
As always a great review even though I don’t share your conclusions, to be honest I am Märklin al the way into my hart.and I really dislike tender drives In my opinion they are just not right. But that’s a matter of taste. Great video thanks for sharing.
The performance did it for me, even with the weaknesses of the tender drive. Not enough for me to change allegiance 😉
Nice comparison. Has the Fleischmann a cardin shaft connecting the tender drive to the locomotive wheels ?
@@Unakosiwundla114 Check the chassis comparison 11:15
Thanks!
thanks very kind, many thanks!
I own a large number of non-Märklin locos for the AC system. Among them are steam locomotives (only steam!) from Trix, Roco, Piko, Fleischmann, Liliput, Kleinbahn, Klein Modellbahn, Westmodel and others. The motivation to buy them was not so much the comparison to the models from Märklin, but the completion of my collection. Because there are also steam locomotives that Märklin never built. Or did not produce it for a long time. For example, the fantastic tank locomotive VI c of the Grand Duchy of Baden State Railway. I own 4 different copies of them from the Viennese company Liliput. All in Länderbahn livery and numbering. My interest is less in the concrete driving characteristics. After all, we are in the field of technical toys, not in the field of technical demonstration objects 1/87 for the use of industrial customers who want to buy a Loco of them in 1/1 scale! Likewise, I am not one of the so-called "rivet counters" who constantly have to compare and measure the model with the prototype in order to get satisfaction. I want to have a historical overview of German steam locomotive construction from 1840 to 1963, from the first locomotive built in Germany (the "Saxonia" from Dresden) to the last Bundesbahn and Reichsbahn locomotives of the sixties. And of course, all machines should be able to run on the AC system. Just for fun!🚅🚅By the way: the locomotives of Austria also belong to this collection area, because the Danube Monarchy was a part of the German Confederation until 1867, and thus a part of Germany like Bavaria, Hanover, and all other German states as well. Some of the most beautiful steam locomotives come from Austria, designed by Karl Gölsdorf.
Looks like you have a nice collection theme.I find Austria interesting too, not because of the German connection, but because of the variety of what ran on the railways over the years. Thanks for spending some your valuable here today.
Thanks for this comparison, as a purchaser of 2nd hand Fleishmann models, I run a wild mix of 2 rail HO and OO scale train models on my pretend heritage layout.
Malkin are rarely available and I can't run them, but I have always guessed that Malkin were the best quality models. So Roco and Fleishmann are the best!!!
Thanks for stopping by. Märklin sold 2-rail versions of a choice of its models under the HAMO brand, of which you'll find plenty of on eBay UK at mostly reasonable prices. I am only comparing 2 models here, and wouldn't go as far as saying that one brand's entire production is better than the other as a result. What does better mean anyway? My better might be completely different from someone else's. In this case this was almost too close to call. What matters is to have fun running them, and both deliver in this respect.
Nice and interesting video, thanks for sharing your test.
Thanks for watching!
Hello,
Enjoyable fun video (and interesting), thanks!
I'm back into Märklin since 14 months after some 40+ years of absence. In my early days, I only had LFCM and SFCM motors, which are reliable and enjoyable when given proper TLC, and provide much better speed control.
Over the past year I first got acquainted with the DCM motor and Märklin's rudimentary loco electronics. I was shocked at the way these respond to the transformer setting, the ugly sound they make and such. Speed control is much like you demonstrated with this steam loco today.
All of this led me to experiment with PWM control again, as I did in the early days, including modifying the models a bit to match my system. I mean extremely subtle and reversible modifications, above all still fully analogue! Anyway I hope to be able to enjoy the DCM models better this way. The LFCM and SFCM models happily comply already and are a joy to operate this way.
In any case, thanks and enjoy summer!
Thanks for the visit and happy tinkering! Whatever gets trains back on the track is good in my book.
Entrambi gloriosi marchi!! Io sono affezionato ai Fleischmann per una serie di qualità costrittive e di marcia.
Marklin tutto metallo a un bel dire!!!
Glad you like.
Model railways was almost a given amongst the males in my family, Like many I started at 14 with a simple starter set . And for me in the early to mid 1980's I picked up a second hand AC Roco loco which led to me being unfaithful to the Marklin brand when something interesting came along, with Can motor cardan shafts worm gears and near silent drive compared to the grinding motors and buzz jerk reversing as was common at the time from Marklin, but best of all I had access to models I was interested in that were not in the Marklin range. I'm now in my 60's and building my 4th layout but due to available space it will be smaller than the last two, but will contain an Analogue line a digital line and a separate analogue block for independent shunting operations using two small electric units operating independently from catenary and able to cross the two main lines unhindered. Your videos are a great source of information.
Glad you find the channel helpful, thanks for the visit and good luck with the layout. 🙏
Very interesting comparison….subscribed. I agree with you about original reliability versus 2 rail. I was always very disappointed with the Märklin Schienenbus being merely a representation. The Fleischmann catalogues were always retouched pictures…then I discovered ROCO with the detail, albeit plastic housing. Anyway, they are all in my Vitrine now and I love everyone of my models reminding me of my annual visits to my Oma and Opa in Bochum and Oberaudorf….and now I’m 74 and no one will be interested in them anyway when I’ve gone to the happy sidings in the sky😂🇬🇧D
Glad you enjoyed the video, thanks for sharing and welcome on board!
Great analysis! From a Marklinist point of view a tender driven steam engine is unthinkable.This setup may explain the low noise and low speed running but i prefer the gear noise and the realistic power transmission. I have two fleischmann 3rail, a BR 65 (1d2) and a sncf 68001 which are great engines from the 70's I guess. The lilliput 3 rails (P8 in po midi and alsace lorraine are not quite the same quality)
You'd need the motor at the front of a steam locomotive, with the power transmitted to the cylinders for a realistic power delivery 😉 But I too like gear noises, I collect Märklin after all... Yet, the enthusiasm for a make often leads to ignoring the competition, so It is not bad to show other ways of doing things from time to time. This re-establishes a good perspective on things... Take care.
Interesting. I like the Marklin a bit better. To me, it replicates normal operation better than the Fleischmann. The worm-gear drive on the smaller wheels, give the Fleischmann a bit more torque and slower speed operation, but the Marklin, with its main drivers powered, acts more natural on grades, with a more steam locomotive-style operation. Both are quite nice, though. I'm an O gauge operator, but I enjoy watching all scales. An excellent video.
Both are pretty close indeed. Thanks for the visit, glad you found the video interesting.
Thank you for this interesting comparison! I am now subscribed to your channel. On the subject of windows, I think you could remanufcacture the yellowed window plastics with a resin 3D printer using clear resin. The window plastics would have to be 3D modeled, which would be a very simple task. Btw, I love your correct pronounciation of Märklin and Fleischmann, a rare occurrence in English language model railway videos. I learned German at school as my third foreign language after English and Swedish. My mother tongue is Finnish. I am a translator by trade. A working knowledge of German is great to have. Keep up the good work!
Welcome aboard.
3D printing/modelling -> Not quite ready to invest 100s of £/$/€ to make windows... Additionally, something is only simple if you already know how to do it... The shape is a bit more complicated than a simple square... But who knows, one day maybe. Thanks for the visit!
Thank You! Good Video! Stéph.
Thanks for watching!
I have been hanging out to see a comparison between these two manufacturers (as the majority I can find are not in English - I'm a bit limited). Thanks so much for taking the time. I have three (smaller) Fleischmann units on my Marklin M-Track layout and find them much the same, heavy and very capable. I've noticed also that they appear 'taller' than the Marklin similar loco - but I have a set of the Fleischmann 5091/2 six wheel coaches that alongside the Marklin 4080/81 units look ridiculous - bulky, tall and almost overpowering. One of the manufacturers version of 1/87 was out! The Fleischmann carriages almost match some old Hornby OO coaches in dimension.
Glad you found it useful. Better be capable, the stuff wasn't cheap when new 😀 Having looked things up this evening, Fleischmann used a larger scale in its early days by the looks of it. The BR 50s were 1/85. I am only regurgitating wikipedia, so don't hold me to it... Thanks for the visit.
I am SO pleased to meet a site for Märklin railways that uses english! :-).
I am new to HO Trix coming from Hornby, but I wondered if either of these two,manufacturers use a flywheel attached to their motors?
Please forgive my lack of knowledge.
Welcome aboard! No flywheel on the models in this video. The situation is different with recent marklin models (2010 onwards...), I think anything above entry level fitted with a "can" motor today is likely to have one.
Back in the 60's I had jumble sale find, a Hornby Dublo three rail A4 with smoke feature. Only having a Tri-ang layout, I tried it out on my friend's the 'rail' layout, well, studs. Placed on track, power on, no movement but lots of smoke!
😀
Excellent comparison! Did Fleischmann have a seperate brochure for AC models? I cannot remember that I ever noticed AC models in Fleischmann catalogues.
no, the AC models were lited in the main catalogue, either next to the DC model or on a dedicated page. Glad you enjoyed the video.
I noticed that you said that the Fleischman model was DC. All my Märklin HO is AC. But some is not? I know of their two-rail Hamo line,but I don't have a lot of experience.
You are right about Fleischman being slightly larger than HO scale (1:87).
I have some wagons made in US Zone Germany by Fleischman that are even larger than 1:85! Keep in mind that early models by Märklin and Trix Express in the 1930s are scaled under 1:87, being something like 1:90 or so.
Over the years, I have aquired a few items of this sort, and although the gauge is HO, the scale is not!😅
Great video! I'm subscribed!
(By the way, I know that the models in your analysis are from a later period, but offer some early possible origins to odd issues of scale discrepancies).😊
I think you might have fast forwarded/skipped a few times during the video 😉 About the scale, sure, 1/87 only becane a thing in the mid to late 50s, and even then, it was more a goal to aim for. Models progressively shrunk towards the scale in the decades that followed. Welcome aboard! Thanks for the visit!
@@The3rdRail Sorry for not getting to thank you for your reply, I am new to this and learning . No, don't worry, I know not to skip , I think I should just re-watch it without trying to multitask! Thanks, from California.
@@peterkordziel7047 No need to thank/apologise... My reply was just a bit of humour...
Strictly speaking, Märklin used universal motors on a 3-rail system (what most people call AC motors). These motors can run on both AC and DC. It just happened that Marklin used AC to power the track. In 3300 and 3500 series locomotives, the AC from the track was even converted to DC by the (pre-)reversing unit and used to power the universal motor. Anything you buy today works this way too, and marklin stopped using AC all together on the track since the introduction of the MS1/CS1 almost 30 years ago, but they were wise enough to make their products AC compatible for use with the 1000s of analogue AC transformers still around in the wild 😀
Märklin used DC CAN motors in some of their models when space constraints required it. This happened as early as 1975 with the 3077 Zeppelin where a can motor was used for the propeller. They then used the same type of motors in the 0050 50 years of H0 set and the 3125 Red Arrow in 1985. The practice became more common in the following years, you'll find a can motor in most entry level products and a large amount of premium models in combination with flywheels and cardan shafts/worm gears today. Take care.
I like both I run Trix and Fleischmann.
They are both pretty models.
My father selected Fleischmann for me. My understanding was that Marklin was way more expensive. And I knew quickly that the locomotives would not run on Marklin and vice versa. I did a lot of building as far as my allowance would permit. Loved it..but grew out of it. Some stayed on…I graduated to building model aircraft with small diesel powered engines. And ended up in the airline industry. Did get around to get my trains out when my son was at the appropriate age…he moved on to computers…times change.
Glad the video could bring some memories, thanks for your time today.
Very interesting, many thanks!
Many thanks!
Interesting video, great channel, subbed!
Thanks and welcome aboard!
Excellent and interesting comparison. Somehow your new vid showed up Monday late afternoon here, but no matter since it's quite relaxing for winding down the day. Actually, Fleischmann having produced 3-rail version is a surprise to us. Roco have but (former) F is new to us. F's motor seems to better cater for crawling whilst M's for torque. Both never went well on those older motors; either good at crawl but less power, or powerful but less low speed control. Modern micro motors do much better now fortunately. But yeah, an interesting head-to-head. We'd go for the M since we value torque a tad higher, but the F looks wonderful. Cheerio.
🤔 M doesn't have the upper end on torque in this case, am a bit confused... I don't know about other models if this is what you meant. Thanks for the visit, glad I could help you unwind.🤗
PS. The video went out later than usual, this could explain the delay in notification.
@@The3rdRail On wait, we just thought that F sharply slowing down when starting the incline is correlated to torque, and that a motor with higher torque will actually slow down much less (M) under same conditions. Similarly, the old motors with high torque less able to crawl slowly since the power kicks in more suddenly and less controlled. At least that's what we have always learnt, but do correct of course.
I think I might have to ☺️
The sharp speed decrease at the beginning is caused by the worm gears used for the transmission with F, they can lock in a sudden load change situation, the motor draws more power to unlock then accelerates to stabilise at a constant speed all the way up the ramp - > high torque. The M motor slows down under load and progressively decelerates along the ramp as the load on the motor increases to then pick up speed as the train engages more and more on the level section at the top and the load decreases-> low torque. The F model can climb the ramp at 85 which is about 9-10v, the M model barely manages the ramp at 100, i think about 11-12v. So F manages more than M with less available power -> higher torque.
@@The3rdRail Ahah, makes sense. Thank your for taking the time to explain 👍
Excellent work! Please do the same for Lima and Rivarossi!
If I ever come accross something I can directly compare I will certainly do. Thanks for the visit!
Dos cosas, interesante esta comparación y gracias por subir 1- con el caso del amarilleo de las ventanas, se deben sacar de la cabina y sumergirlas en agua oxigenada o que las cubra bien en esa agua que sea a 10 volúmenes o más si se puede conseguir, ponerlas al sol dos días o más, ahí las va a revisar usted y en caja transparente cerrada, algo ayuda a blanquear eso al estar expuestas a la luz UV. .2- Luego veo que la Fleischmann pese a tener motor Buhler, no le pusieron volante, eso ayudaría más a suavizar la marcha a bajas RPM, Saludos.
Thanks for the comment and visit. Other people have commented along the same line about the motor and "retrobright". Did you ever try the brightening yourself on locomotive windows?
Wonderful video as always (although I'd have pushed the detail comparison bit a bit further, à-la Sam's Trains style). In any case, IMHO it's the loco that has to do the pulling, not the tender. I give transmission-shaft driven locos a pass, but the tender-driven only ones are automatically a fail for my tastes.
This seems to be a quite widespread opinion indeed, which I happen to share, yet this very tender runs very well... Food for thought... Sam who? I shall bear in mind for a future video, but this will mean lots of effort to get my english up to the level required 😀 Thanks for the visit!
@@The3rdRail Please do check out his reviews, just for the pleasure of watching them (you two have different styles, which is just fine). Thank you for sharing with us this great content! :)
I know his reviews... I was joking 😉
@@The3rdRail Lol it went so over my head that I couldn't have reached it even with a pantograph :P
hello, verry nice ! Thank you!
Thank you too
@@The3rdRail i like your style to present this videos keep ON =)
The one and only (small) disadvantage of the Fleischmann loco that I spottet was in the Walschaert's gear: The eccentric rod almost doesn't move, perhaps because the eccentric crank wasn't mounted properly.
Yep, tI agree hat bit is not as pronounced as on the Märklin model. Thanks for the visit!
It seems that the struggle of the Fleischmann model on radius 1 curves does not bother you... and did you notice the separately fitted details - yeah, the silver ones - on the Märklin model, that are molded and black on the Fleischmann one?
Nice video tough, I've happily subscribed. I'm tired of those english DC/OO scale videos, with their Hornby-ble models. And of course, my first and only trains were Märklin on M-rails xD
The Fleischmann doesn't struggle on radius one, it just runs slower than the marklin model at the same transformer setting. This applies to any radius, ramp or straight. I concentrated on the obvious stuff for the details, the video would have been too long otherwise, the same applies for the different track systems I talk about at the beginning of the video for example, I left some stuff out there too... Thanks for the visit!
This channel is not for beginners. Its was very hard to understand what u ment in this video. But its ok, hope people with knowlegde of model trains enjoy your video
Thanks for the feedback. You can activate auto translated subtitles if language is the issue here. Thanks for the visit.
@@The3rdRail Language was not the problem, just level of knowledge needed to follow your video
You are right: It is a comparison between 2 locomotives, and pre-supposes a certain level of knowledge.
It could be compared to a car review I guess: the typical review will give informations about the car, but no basic explanation on the working principles of a motor or a clutch. I do cover working principles in other types of videos on the channel, little helpers for example. Thanks again for the feedback.
@@The3rdRail Happy u like my feedback. I love when people with huge amount of knowledge makes videos and share it with other people. Sometimes they forget many people have not even close to their knowlegde, so they talks "over head" (its a expressesion in norway), so people dont understand whay they are talking about. I really hope u will get many subs in your channel, because i thinks it will be usefull for people who have more interests of model trains than i do. Keep up the good working with your videos. Im sure people will love it
Time to analize your recent post again!
The picture was not the tender of the 3005.
Now I've seen this, so would be 2 possibilities left: The Fleischmann 1179 or the Märklin 3315.
One of the major differances between those 2 is the location for drive.
So, I looked at the picture from the post and when you look closely, you can see the traction rubber on 2/4 wheels.
So my final guess is... your Fleischmann 1179! 👑
there was a simpler hint: the side tank and and lines are red on the fleischmann, black on marklin.
Oh i didnt notice!
I'll surely be open for a few more of such challenges on @@The3rdRail!
Very interesting. Saw a programme about Hornby and their rivals complained that they were being undercut, even though their models were more detailed. Horses for courses
I think the problem with Hornby nowadays is that as soon they hear someone is making something, they rush to do the same model and try and get it out before everyone else... very aggessive and not nice at all... Marklin was a bit more subtle...
@@The3rdRail The Class 66 is a case in point. It's absolutely horrific. It's only possible purpose is as a market segment 'spoiler'. People felt sorry for Simon Kohler when he was 'retired'. But it very much seemed he had driven that tactic.
and let's not mention TT...
Many reviewers often complain about wheel-slip (not that you did) & tender driven locomotives don't experience it, though the tender might. Most films of trains I have ever seen, including Hollywood/European films show steam locomotives' wheels slipping at start up or on grades.
Sand is still used on real locomotives (ie. vectron ruclips.net/video/Cjw4Bzt1SOw/видео.htmlsi=MXOJxhDkEDQtQyx1) today to help... :)
Great video.....do you believe the marginally better preference towards the Fleischmann loco would justify the 10% or so higher retail price?
Thanks. Something is always worth what people are ready to pay and Fleischmann seems to have sold quite a few.
Molto interessante 👏👏👏
thanks!
Both are great models, there are certain companies releasing less detailed locos today, yet they charge way too much money for them... 🤔
I agree 👍
Ah, the Märklin class 50 with its cute hamster cheeks 😍
Also on 44 and 012, only smaller because they are bigger so the motor needs less additional space.
I've read that some Fleischmann models are bigger than 1:87 but I only have some passenger and freight cars from them.
Thanks for the visit! Have a good week.
I don't have any Fleischmann stock. I have Marklin and Rocco. The Rocco is just as detailed and well made as the Marklin locos. All my Marklin locos are made in Germany and the Rocco locos are all made in Austria.
👍 Thanks for the visit!
Might be a stupid question but a middle mounted contact point on a Fleishman? I always thought these had the wheel pick ups? Is this a range of models compatible with marklins system? Or did I just miss the fact Fleishman makes also models with this set up?😅
This is what happens when you skip or fast forward in videos....😉
@@The3rdRail You stole the words from my mouth 😂
Hello the Third Rail! I’m curious if there is a way to let non-märklin locos run on Märklin rails, and I’m referring to the locos with two rail running systems (although I only have official Märklin locomotives for my small layout, I’m just curious as to if this is possible) so if you know how, would you maybe want to explain how to do it?
Love the content and I hope you can reply.
Yours truly, Jordyvt08
yes, it is possible, what to depends on the loco, but you'll need to install a pickup shoe and an electronic reverser or decoder at a minimum. Glad you enjoy the content.
@@The3rdRail thanks for the info! I may try this sometime soon! And no problem at all! Keep up the great content!
When I was a kid (I am 68 now), I was running Lima and Rivarossi engines in DC and Marklin in AC, at the same time. The DC was through the catenary, and the AC was through the center contacts. By chance I discovered that I could have a "common" wire between the two system (the brown), and the hot wire (the red) to the respective places (catenary for DC and 3rd rail for AC). You should have seen the confusion from my friends when I ran the Marklin electrics with pan up 😆
@@lellopesce Yes I have run DC Locos on the overhead whilst running AC through the centre rail with common return through the rails with no ill effect.
just a bit difficult to reverse in DC I guess, no?
Did not know that Fleischmann used its ringfield motor not in every model. My first thoughts were that you have got an "improved" piece, but I found a spare parts sheet from Fleischmann with this motor. There actually had been tender-propelled locos with its famous ringfield motor.
What? You didn't trust me? 😀😀😀😀 I did mention the tender was a 1980s development with a different motorisation and transmission (04:35 and 12:20). Thanks for the visit!
@@The3rdRail I am sorry but I never heard about.
that was humour, no need to be sorry for anything... 👍
Well, I would have given an extra point to Mârklin to be actually driven by the locomotive part as opposed to by the tender for Fleischmann...
You are not alone😀 Thanks for the visit!
Salut! Both lovely models but the Fleischmann seems to be much more "modern" than the Maerklin. I'm also wondering about the motors and transmisssion. The Maerklin (if I remember rightly) was a three pole motor which makes starting much more jerky and sudden. Is the Fleischmann a five pole motor by any chance? That would account for the much smoother starting and better pulling power on grades. The straight non-articulated frame also does not seem to cause major problems either. A flywheel would also mitigate the tendency of worm drives to stop suddenly. But what really interested me was the brief appearance of the articulated railbus. I would love to see that in more detail. Perhaps you have enough railbuses and schienen buses to have a little running session! A bientot...
Hi, as far as I know, the Fleischmann motor is a 3-pole motor, as is the Marklin motor. I think the difference in performance is down to the type: one is a DC motor with permanent magnets, the other is a universal motor. The latter requires a more power to get going (the rotor and field coils both need power) and slows down under load, that is simply down to its working principle. I thought about the flywheel too, but looking at the space available in the tender, I think it would have been difficult for Fleischmann to put one in and I think it might have required some form of cardan shaft on one side. You can see more of the red Micheline railbus in the "Drawer Queens" video I made before this one. I think I have most of the railbusses from the 1980s catalogues so I could try a knock a small session together at some point, stay tuned!
Interesting to see early Märklin literature shows OO scale.
Everything (I think) on 16.5mm tracks started as 00. 1/87 scale only became a widely accepted industry standard in the 1950s in Europe, and the term H0 replaced 00 in catalogues. 1:87 was aspirational back then, the models progressively shrunk until the 1980s. The fleischmann model in this video is 1/85.
Can motor Fleischmann from the 80s! Didn’t know that existed. Comparison with the “standard” 3 pole “pancake” Fleischmann motor would be interesting!
As the saying goes, one learns something new every day... If I find a Fleischmann model with pancake motor I can compare to an equivalent marklin model, may be some day...
FLEISCHMANN was not only a producer of modelrailways, but a producer of tools as well. The quality was superior above MÄRKLIN of that time,but you have to admit, that the scale was 1:85 instead of 1:87.! HORNBY und so one from UK , you could forget about it !!
? please elaborate: what is quality?
@@The3rdRail Better rails, especially the rails of the steam engine - best of their time - better lamps in front - and motor inside the tender..
Forget HORNBY made in UK !!
@@class77sncb I also didn't mention Trix express, Tri-Ang, Lilliput, Lima, Jouef, Athearn, Lifelike, MTH, Kato and many more... Because that isnt the point of the video. Thanks for the visit.
That Fleischmann is beautiful😍. You can cut real glass for the windows. I am going to replace the windows on my rare 1/12th Markie living van as part of installing a full scaled interior.
Thanks for the visit!
I always slowly turned down the speed before stopping on my Fleishmann trains for better and more realistic stopping.
Sure, but that doesn't work in automated mode, the mode of operation some, including myself, use most of the time.
@@The3rdRail Ah, I see.
I used an 8 bit ADC-converter for this already in the 80's that was just using step-down in 7 bits for the speed. Only in emergency-brake mode, all lights and switches performed this way on the mainlines. the 8th bit was for direction-control (with a direction-relay).
For automatic mode, I used a simple CBM64, but could also be done with the printerport of a PC (thus, also TTL, 5V 8bits) in later versions.
The most difficult switch with light was the automated X-switch in the middle of 3 mainlines, combined with 2 other electrified switches. Since the direction on the lines and speeds could be opposite from both crossing-lines and the middle-line, with very short blocks, it meant that the other 2 crossing-blocks could only be in 'full emergency-stop' when one train was crossing from track C to A (track B in the middle). I would normally only program that to be switching when the train on track B was already stationed at the station or had left the block for some time. But if not, it would be a really fast stop.
Too bad I don't have video's of that trainboard which needed to be broken down for building-activities at the room later.
Programming was always a bit crude in that time, with very limited memory (yes, 64K for program and data on the CBM64, loading from tape, later up to 640K on the PC with floppy-disks). Sequences were 2 bytes. Where first byte was 'where' and second byte was 'what'. So first was block-code with line (something like 001 00001 for first block at line A and 001 00010 for the second block on the same line) and then second byte was speed like 0 1111111 for full speed in normal direction and 0 0001000 for about half speed in the same direction.
This was all just a big textfile to be visialized later but actually quite easy to do when you have the numbers in your head since it was just a bit of counting.
For switches I had a simular code and it was all just sequences with delays and waiting for certain conditions like a train that triggered a location.
Sounds exciting 😉 People don't realise today what could be done with a commodore 64 and a few brain cells. I use ESP8266 wifi microcontrollers coupled with some accessory controllers I developped with an application I wrote in NodeRed for control, routing and automation
Either one equals a lot of money
yep, model trains were never cheap...
YO TUVE VARIOS TRENES MARKLIN DE CARGA Y PASAJEROS ME ARREPIENTO DE HABERLOS VENDIDO.
you can always buy them again😃 thanks for the visit!
maybe this is a false memory, but I remember that Fleischmann would have been an East German brand. in any case, it was of lower quality, more plastic, than Märklin. in addition, it had a different power supply; one rail supplied + and the other was ground
Fleischmann were based in Nürnberg, in West Germany. The few wagons I had in my hands a few years back looked great to me. I think you were thinking about Piko, which was the East German brand of the time.
@@The3rdRailYes U r right now I remember. that was Piko, thank U 😊
AI correct me too: 'Fleischmann’s Origin: Fleischmann was not an East German brand; it was founded in Nuremberg, Germany, in 1887.
Quality Compared to Märklin: Comparing the quality of Fleischmann and Märklin is subjective. Both are well-known German model train manufacturers, but Märklin is often considered higher quality, especially due to its three-rail system.
Power Supply: Fleischmann models primarily use a two-rail system, where one rail is positive and the other is negative. Märklin, on the other hand, uses a three-rail system, where the center rail acts as the power conductor.'
You can make the crawl speed of a Marklin better if you change the carbon brush with a copper brush. Ofcourse it will now also be faster on high speed setting.
I have to disagree I am afraid... You will destroy the commutator... Not a good idea...
The copper brush's purpose is to prevent the accumulation of graphite on the commutator. It does this through friction. If 2 copper brushes are used, the commutator will warm up, and its surface will deteriorate though abrasion. The graphite brush lubricates the commutator, which balances the effect of the copper brush on the surface out.
But, the opposite would work and would make the loco slower. In the 50s Marklin actually sold pairs of carbon brushes as an option, I think this was reference 497/3 LP, later 60030. Marklin switched to graphite only brushes when they changed from cylindrical to cubic/square brushes.Thanks for the visit!
@@The3rdRail
I know it is not good for the commutator but with a lower voltage you will make the train crawl . So for locomotives doing only station work it can be used to make it look better. 2 carbon brushes would make it slower but would it make even harder to make it crawl I think. I'll give it a try.
they are your trains, you do what you want with them... 😉
The massive flanges and centre studs really destroy the sense of realism.
not bothering me...
This was a goody. Interesting comparison, and isn't it funny about what one notices. That fleischmann heusinger I can't handle: it doesn't move!
The heusinger doesn't move? You mean the long vertical silver bit? That bit didnt move in the real thing either I believe, I think it is meant to represent a guide painted red on the real locos. This bit is missing from the Märklin model. For the rest, we are venturing in the apples and pairs territory imho... Thanks for the visit and for sharing your thoughts 🙏
@The3rdRail I actually meant the main valve connector actuating rod from the driver. If you watch the märklin one you'll see it does have it vaguely geometrically correct at 90° forward off the centre: they're quite hypnotic to watch, and on the fleischmann it appears to be just centred on the driver axle and isn't hypnotic at all.
Good point about the apples and oranges, although it is possibly testament to change in both the fleischmann and märklin markets.
I like fruit...
@The3rdRail I'm a goat anyway: I often flick through every video you've done umpteen times and I am, of course, watching the one with your 3047 and 3048 so you know all about it anyway.
So I'll just remain quiet in the cheap seats...
There are no bad comments... Fire away...
Trix express in the UK TTR Trix Twin Railways was also a (DC) 3 rail system.
The DC 3 rail system had the advantage 2 locomotives could be seperatly controled by 2 controllers on 1 piece of track (with additional overhead line 3)
Later EMS controlers doubled it to 4 and 6 with additional overhead line.
Märklin also had a 2 rail DC line sold under the brand name Hamo.
Trix express had a 2 rail DC line under the brand name Trix International
Today as we all now due to mergers and bankrupcies Trix and Märklin (merged 1997) belong recently to the Simba Dickie toy group
Trix express/TTR/International and Hamo are defunct, the Märklin (H0) brand is used for the 3 rail AC system and (Mini)Trix for the 2 rail DC system.
Ofcourse non H0 gauge like f.e Märklin Z has also a DC 2 rail system
Fleischmann today only produces N scale (piccolo) models.
Thanks for the visit.
You can remove the discolouring from plastic with hydrogen peroxide and sunlight.
Have you tried this yourself?
You could try retro-brighting to sort the glazing out. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrobright
have you?
@@The3rdRail I haven't yet but I have heard good things from tech restorers
We have watched the same videos 😀 This is usually done on beige computer cases and keyboards. I have watched a Adam Savage video in which he tried it on clear plastic and it didn't work. Hence my question. Thanks for the suggestion though.