This method needs citric acid to form the actual chelating agent, monosodium citrate. But I quess any acid, dissolved in water will remove rust. The effect on the base material will vary though depending on multiple factors.
Hi, I will use this solution again, (in fact, I just released new video where I use it 😎). It will work for a long long time. Once it no longer works, I'm pretty sure it can be poured down the drain. I will need to make sure though, before discarding it. Thank you for very good question!
*a diluted solution of water with baking soda can be beneficial for lawns and gardens in limited situations, primarily as a way to control fungal diseases like powdery mildew on plants, or to kill small weeds, but overuse can harm plants due to sodium buildup; always test a small area first and follow proper mixing ratios*
Some of my things come out with a black coating that can be removed with a wire brush wheel on a bench grinder. Do yours, and if so do you know what it is?
Mine always does this too. I'm not sure what it is, but from how it feels and blackens everything it touches, it might be magnetite. Which is also an iron oxide but often found in oxygen deficient environments, for example, inside domestic heating systems. If I do the oil quenching as in this video, I just leave it on.
@@DIYAll_24 I did a chain that came out clean and did not get the black coating, and did not flash rust either. It is likely not the same metal composition as the other things. People, me included, are restoring old rusty cast iron cookware and I have been trying different rust removal methods. I don't want to leave the black deposits on them. Also I don't want to leave traces of any toxic chemicals. The flash rusting is also a big problem if muriatic acid is used. I am a retired polymer and organic chemist, but I am just learning the chemistry of rust removal from ferrous metals.
Oh that's interesting! All my parts so far have come out with black coating on them. I understand that you don't want some unknown black stuff on your cookware... Actually I too have some rusty cookware that i plan on restoring. As me neither want this coating on my cookware, AND I'm not very interested in manual labour of wire brushing it off, I think I will try and find some non-toxic solvent to remove this coating/ residue.
@@DIYAll_24 Great. I first saw this method and formula on this man's channel. He claims to have developed it ruclips.net/video/fVYZmeReKKY/видео.html If that is true, I think anyone using it should give him credit for it. Many of the formulas and procedures I developed as a research chemist were stolen from me and the credit taken by people who had no part in the work whatsoever.
@@Larry-d3i That's exactly where i saw this first time! Thats why i have credited him in the description :) You are right that everyone should always give the credit to whom it belongs to. Research takes time and effort the least you can ask for, is the appropriate credit for it.
Thank you for a great question! The soda is actually not added for the purpose of reducing the acidicity, rather it is for the formation of the actual chelating agents that do most of the rust removal in this process. These agents being monosodium citrate and some disodium citrate salts. This method is discussed more thoroughly in the Backyard ballistics channel video I have linked in the description.
The info in the video description is self contradictory: "Pretty much all citric acid is consumed in this reaction, and the ph of ready solution should be close to 4." The statements "Pretty much all citric acid is consumed in this reaction" and "the ph of ready solution should be close to 4." are mutually exclusive. If pretty much all the citric acid is consumed, why is the pH 4? what is making it so acidic, if not the citric acid? If pretty much all of it was consumed, the pH should be around 6-7.
Hey thanks for noting and commenting. This is more or less straight transcript from the video I learned this process, and i noticed that contradictory myself. But since It's above my pay grade I just left it be. My thinking was, maybe the reaction products, (mono- and disodium citrates) themself are acidic, and so affect the acidicity of the end product. Do you think this could be the case?
@@DIYAll_24 Shouldn't the products of the reaction between a base and an acid, be perfectly neutral? Either way: Evaporust removes rust, whilst not/barely damaging the base metal, as it's close to neutral ...but since this solution is acidic, it *_does_* affect the base metal. Not as much as just using citric acid, by itself, which is obviously a lot more acidic, but still... I do not understand, why he chose to make a solution that is still significantly acidic.
Backyard Ballistics formula is really great, but his assumption about full neutralization in this case was not quite right. To fully neutralize 100g of citric acid requires about 130g of baking soda. He uses half of that. So the solution itself is still acidic therefore explains his own result where there is still a small amount of base material etching. I would say 1 :1.3 citric to baking soda ratio would result in pH neutral solution that will drastically reduce base material etching, but will also result in slower reaction time.
@@ForsisTubro-zj9ro Ah, so rather than 63g, it should be 130g? Using those numbers, I take it that the proper amount for sodium carbonate would be around 83g, and for sodium hydroxide, 62g? Have you tested those amounts, to confirm it, BTW? What I can't understand, is why he says his solution neutralizes the acid, given that he clearly shows it has a pH of 4...
@@ZarlanTheGreen Ah, if you're using sodium carbonate, the numbers will be different. It's not straightforward algebra as the molecular weight and the ion exchange will be different. It takes 1 mol citric acid to neutralize 3 mol of sodium bicarbonate, but the same amount will neutralize only 2 mol of sodium carbonate. So 1 mol citric (molecular weight 192g) will neutralize 2 mol sodium carbonate (molecular weight 106g x2 = 212g). The full neutralization ratio is therefore 192 : 212, or about 1 citric acid to 1.1 sodium carbonate. Assuming 100% purity on the ingredients of course. Therefore 100g citric acid will require 110g pure washing soda to fully neutralize each other. As for testing, no, I have not made any ph neutral version because the acidic version works great already for my use. Citric acid strips rust quickly and the sodium citrate chelates the rust so it doesn't stick back. And the base metal etch is minimal IMO.
Thanks for the idea. However, I have lots of background noises while filming (for example: cat raging, gf raging, kids raging, appliances beeping their error codes, tv, etc.) So, for now, I must stick to this style. I use lot of time finding the right kind of music to match the atmosphere I want to convey. I must try harder to not cause this kind of discomfort in the future. 😇
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Please check out my new video:
Rust removal by Chelation (In an Ultrasonic Cleaner AND It's a Total Mess)
ruclips.net/video/pammFfk0Yew/видео.html
Some more freedom units
Per gallon of water
1 LB citric acid
1/3 LB sodium carbonate
I can't tell if this is a joke or actual recipe
@@DIYAll_24 That's his recipe converted from liters and grams for a gallon water.
Carlo is the guy from Backyard Ballistics / Beyond Ballistics. Super helpful info!
Indeed! Thanks go to Carlo🍻
@@DIYAll_24 The Ultimate HOMEMADE Rust Remover (Better than EvapoRust)
ruclips.net/video/fVYZmeReKKY/видео.html
Does it have to be citric acid ? Would oxalic acid work
This method needs citric acid to form the actual chelating agent, monosodium citrate. But I quess any acid, dissolved in water will remove rust. The effect on the base material will vary though depending on multiple factors.
li metti in forno a 250° per ? Io faccio un procedimento analogo con aceto e sale
Infatti, ho concluso che questo procedimento è ancora sicuro per qualsiasi trattamento di rinvenimento o indurimento degli strumenti.
Thanks for the freedom units.
With them, I just made 73 ⅝ freedom gallons of rust remover.
Hey no problem! But I have no idea if that is one mouthful or two olympic size swimming pools 😆
I've only made 60 nanograms, would you like to do a swap?
Hello, what did you do with the solution after use? Do you plan at some point to discard it? If yes, how so?
Hi, I will use this solution again, (in fact, I just released new video where I use it 😎).
It will work for a long long time. Once it no longer works, I'm pretty sure it can be poured down the drain. I will need to make sure though, before discarding it. Thank you for very good question!
*a diluted solution of water with baking soda can be beneficial for lawns and gardens in limited situations, primarily as a way to control fungal diseases like powdery mildew on plants, or to kill small weeds, but overuse can harm plants due to sodium buildup; always test a small area first and follow proper mixing ratios*
Some of my things come out with a black coating that can be removed with a wire brush wheel on a bench grinder. Do yours, and if so do you know what it is?
Mine always does this too. I'm not sure what it is, but from how it feels and blackens everything it touches, it might be magnetite. Which is also an iron oxide but often found in oxygen deficient environments, for example, inside domestic heating systems. If I do the oil quenching as in this video, I just leave it on.
@@DIYAll_24 I did a chain that came out clean and did not get the black coating, and did not flash rust either. It is likely not the same metal composition as the other things. People, me included, are restoring old rusty cast iron cookware and I have been trying different rust removal methods. I don't want to leave the black deposits on them. Also I don't want to leave traces of any toxic chemicals. The flash rusting is also a big problem if muriatic acid is used. I am a retired polymer and organic chemist, but I am just learning the chemistry of rust removal from ferrous metals.
Oh that's interesting! All my parts so far have come out with black coating on them.
I understand that you don't want some unknown black stuff on your cookware... Actually I too have some rusty cookware that i plan on restoring. As me neither want this coating on my cookware, AND I'm not very interested in manual labour of wire brushing it off, I think I will try and find some non-toxic solvent to remove this coating/ residue.
@@DIYAll_24 Great. I first saw this method and formula on this man's channel. He claims to have developed it
ruclips.net/video/fVYZmeReKKY/видео.html
If that is true, I think anyone using it should give him credit for it. Many of the formulas and procedures I developed as a research chemist were stolen from me and the credit taken by people who had no part in the work whatsoever.
@@Larry-d3i That's exactly where i saw this first time! Thats why i have credited him in the description :) You are right that everyone should always give the credit to whom it belongs to. Research takes time and effort the least you can ask for, is the appropriate credit for it.
Instead of starting with an acid you need to reduce
with soda, why not just start with a weaker acid, like
white vinegar?
Thank you for a great question! The soda is actually not added for the purpose of reducing the acidicity, rather it is for the formation of the actual chelating agents that do most of the rust removal in this process.
These agents being monosodium citrate and some disodium citrate salts. This method is discussed more thoroughly in the Backyard ballistics channel video I have linked in the description.
Hmm, I wonder if oximes would do the same?
I tried to research this but got not much wiser... Can you explain more please?
The tools had gotten satinized though, meaning there was some material loss. Gotta add some corrosion inhibitor i guess.
I think the damage was done before going into this solution... The oil quenching should protect from further rusting 🙂
The info in the video description is self contradictory: "Pretty much all citric acid is consumed in this reaction, and the ph of ready solution should be close to 4." The statements "Pretty much all citric acid is consumed in this reaction" and "the ph of ready solution should be close to 4." are mutually exclusive. If pretty much all the citric acid is consumed, why is the pH 4? what is making it so acidic, if not the citric acid? If pretty much all of it was consumed, the pH should be around 6-7.
Hey thanks for noting and commenting. This is more or less straight transcript from the video I learned this process, and i noticed that contradictory myself. But since It's above my pay grade I just left it be.
My thinking was, maybe the reaction products, (mono- and disodium citrates) themself are acidic, and so affect the acidicity of the end product. Do you think this could be the case?
@@DIYAll_24 Shouldn't the products of the reaction between a base and an acid, be perfectly neutral? Either way: Evaporust removes rust, whilst not/barely damaging the base metal, as it's close to neutral ...but since this solution is acidic, it *_does_* affect the base metal. Not as much as just using citric acid, by itself, which is obviously a lot more acidic, but still... I do not understand, why he chose to make a solution that is still significantly acidic.
Backyard Ballistics formula is really great, but his assumption about full neutralization in this case was not quite right. To fully neutralize 100g of citric acid requires about 130g of baking soda. He uses half of that. So the solution itself is still acidic therefore explains his own result where there is still a small amount of base material etching.
I would say 1 :1.3 citric to baking soda ratio would result in pH neutral solution that will drastically reduce base material etching, but will also result in slower reaction time.
@@ForsisTubro-zj9ro Ah, so rather than 63g, it should be 130g? Using those numbers, I take it that the proper amount for sodium carbonate would be around 83g, and for sodium hydroxide, 62g? Have you tested those amounts, to confirm it, BTW? What I can't understand, is why he says his solution neutralizes the acid, given that he clearly shows it has a pH of 4...
@@ZarlanTheGreen Ah, if you're using sodium carbonate, the numbers will be different. It's not straightforward algebra as the molecular weight and the ion exchange will be different.
It takes 1 mol citric acid to neutralize 3 mol of sodium bicarbonate, but the same amount will neutralize only 2 mol of sodium carbonate.
So 1 mol citric (molecular weight 192g) will neutralize 2 mol sodium carbonate (molecular weight 106g x2 = 212g). The full neutralization ratio is therefore 192 : 212, or about 1 citric acid to 1.1 sodium carbonate. Assuming 100% purity on the ingredients of course.
Therefore 100g citric acid will require 110g pure washing soda to fully neutralize each other.
As for testing, no, I have not made any ph neutral version because the acidic version works great already for my use. Citric acid strips rust quickly and the sodium citrate chelates the rust so it doesn't stick back. And the base metal etch is minimal IMO.
nice video
Thank you, it's my first😊 (sorry I first accidentally replied from my personal account)
Be mindful of your units. 1000 cups would create almost 63 GALLONS (237 l) of the stuff!
Thanks for the insight! I left the scaling of the batch calculations to the user 😉😇
when you make a video and it strarts raining......
Yea tell me about it... All i needed was 3 minutes. Well i got 2 and a half 😅
Love the Finnish summer
If you are not speaking, TURN OFF THE MUSIC!!!
Thanks for the idea. However, I have lots of background noises while filming (for example: cat raging, gf raging, kids raging, appliances beeping their error codes, tv, etc.)
So, for now, I must stick to this style. I use lot of time finding the right kind of music to match the atmosphere I want to convey.
I must try harder to not cause this kind of discomfort in the future. 😇