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thiourea and sulfamic acid? Two good suspects for the Evaporust secret recipe. Edit: /salute from another 'technically homeless' guy living at work. This economy sucks.
Youre not homeless! Homeless guys have nasty beards, youre just a pair of Adam's Family extra's & a disembodied voice - your "home" could just be a pair of gloves! 😉
@@1978garfield I can't get my hands on any Evaorust to read the Haz or Active ingredients, but "I Have" OJT for Passivation in pharma, aero, electronics, and industrial. short of this my "go to" is Citric acid(vitimin C) @ about 180f after cleaning solvent of TSP at same temp for iron oxide rust removal.
@@rogierius Yes, it’s printed on their gallon jug as per government regulation. It’s also been tested on a spectrometer for the active ingredient, and it’s only the Triethanolamine Phosphate among those things listed. If I can find the video again on the test, I will send you the link, friend.
Don't know if you know this but the best thing to remove rust is muriatic acid. Stuff removes rust like no one's business. Better than everything else.
Good stuff, and great explanation! I really like how you reverse-engineered this so well! I have some phosphoric acid lying around, so I might have to test that out in a video...
I do have some parkerizing concentrate which is phosphoric acid, would that work as a rust dissolver? I do not know the concentration of the chemical but it does get quite diluted when used to parkerize firearms. A friend of mine uses 30% concentrate of cleaning vinegar. He says it works miracles. As for brass, there is a liquid product called "IOSSO CLEANER AND TARNISH REMOVER". It says safe for general use in cleaning brass cases. There is also a warning about storing it in a metal container. It would be interesting to find another alternative for this product. Where I live now the damn EU regulates way too much as to what is available to the general public. Can’t find Evaporust nor IOSSO here. Need both, especially the brass cleaner. I just dip our brass candleholders in the solution for a few minutes and then rinse. A quick way to bring back the shine after a light buffing.
NO thank god!!!! lol i love that channel but the speaking or lines or whatever u call the style he delivers he lines is soo distracting n hard to listen to, it would absolutely b one of my favorite channels if it wasnt for that, i guess it just seems kinda lazy with just reading off cards with no context its messes up the flow of the video n again is distracting. hell have cards or points written on stuff he wants to cover in the video but he reads them verbatim, like "evaporust is a great product. i use evaporust any chance i get. Evaporust wont damage the metal. Evaporust also hurt your skin and evaporust is non toxic" after a few times u can just say it!!!! lol that drives me so crazy i cant even watch the videos lol i write and its just lazy writing, u need to combine your thoughts at the end and let them flow without repetition or youll bore the reader
I found some patents for rust removers that use sodium EDTA and thiourea dioxide. Thiourea dioxide is a relatively stable reducing agent that (apparently) assists in converting rust to a more-soluble form. As can be deduced from its name, it contains sulfur. A paper by some Japanese researchers indicated that the best rust removal is obtained when the solution pH is close to neutral. Thiourea dioxide is used in the textile industry so should be readily available. An alternative to it might be sodium bisulfite. This also according to the Japanese research.
I've never tried Evaporust myself, but I love trying to solve puzzle videos like this. My quick analysis is that the green color is an important clue. It's showing that there is iron in solution, but it's starved for oxygen. You can test this by taking some of the green liquid and putting a little hydrogen peroxide in it, and seeing if it flashes to brown. If it does, but then turns green again, then there is another layer of buffering. To make your version better (I know it's already cheap as is, but better is better), it needs something to deplete the oxygen in the partially-used solution. The green iron oxidation state means it is ready to steal oxygen from rust, but the new fluid is supposedly clear to yellowish, so it must start with a first layer of oxygen remover to preserve it until initial uses, and to verify its freshness upon receipt. Based on the assumption that one of the ingredients is ferrous hydroxide, which is clear, but turns green when contaminated by oxygen, but you're assuming it contains soap, and watching a video of new liquid being poured... I suspect that one of the pH/oxygen buffers is glycerine. You stated that it smelled a little like burned sugar too, and the MSDS says it's pretty much harmless to everything. I therefore suspect that the ingredients include ferrous hydroxide, from ferrous sulfate and sodium hydroxide, and glycerine, which may smell sweet in a chemical reaction, but will form a useful soap with the excess hydroxide, while helping to buffer the pH, along with something like citric acid to get the pH down enough without using an excess of glycerine.
@@pappaflammyboi5799 That makes sense. It would occupy dissolved rust and keep it from doing much chemically. Those kind of things would be behind making the solution last over multiple uses.
Hey Buck, have a look at what I have just posted and let us know what you think. I found and downloaded a US Military spec. "Corrosion Removing Compound, Sodium Hydroxide Base; For Electrolytic Or Immersion Application" They state also "without causing material change in the dimensional characteristics of the treated article." Hydroxide conc. is pretty low.
If you have any EDTA left over after you are done, remember to keep it handy in case of vampire attack. It explodes on contact with vampire blood. (source: "Blade" 1998)
I tried this method to de-rust the rear end of my car in a large tub (didn't want to buy $600 worth of evaporust). What I found was that after soaking for a day, there was no visible difference--but I did notice I could more easily scratch rust off with my fingernail. So I decided to try taking it out and power washing it. Except for the very heaviest rust spots, the rust just washed away like dirt! It was miraculous! Hope that helps someone. Many thanks to ElementalMaker.
I de rusted body panels on my car by using Hydrochloric Acid, and ordinary sand (as the scrubber). Wearing safety gloves, I soaked a rag with hydrochloric acid, then dipped this in dry sand, and started to scrub away. This really worked for me, and then I rinsed with plain water, because the rusting is immediate. Then treated the scrubbed surface with a Phosporic Acid. Washed this off the next day, and primed the bodywork with paint. Obviously, you must not breathe the Hydrochloric Acid Fumes, so please wear the appropriate Mask.
That is what I used to do too. But, the evaporust seems to keep the part from rusting after rinsing a little better - especially things like gas tanks. Also, some items I use zinc-chromate primer, and that keeps the metal from rerusting. @@peterduxbury927
Maybe the acids (vinegar and bare citric) would also benefit from some surfactant. My guess the "easy to peel" rust residues in the vinegar is actually a rust soaked in some grease, so not allowing sufficient penetration...
@@Joe-bm4wx Haven't found a english-speaking video but according to this one it works: ruclips.net/video/f2DUJl6cCqg/видео.html (he said that vinegar + salt in electrolysis is much better, but it has to be in a ventilated area and the object has to be submerged)
Ya but I don't want to be smelling vinegar for any amount of time but ya he said in the description about$0.75 a gallon you are going to pay that for distilled water so get a container big enough and should be good
@@AEON. - only the fancy beers... Just bought a 5 litre container for $A70, on special. $A425 for a 5kilo concentrated form that makes 30 litres (about 7.5 US gallons). Since Tetrasodium EDTA is about $25/kg, this is so much cheaper. Now to buy a small plunge pool and a crane...
Dear god, that's insane! I see a business opportunity. Start getting people to carry a couple liters in their checked luggage when they go to visit and we've got ourselves a nice little racket! Is that $100 in Australian monopoly money or American dollars?
In Australia they have to make the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) readily available to everyone. The MSDS for Evaporust indicates the active ingredient is Sodium Bi-Sulphate at 3% concentration (also known as Sodium Acid Sulphate or NaHSO4). NaHSO4 is commonly used as a pH decreaser for spas and dissolved in water would be an acidic solution, requiring buffering but perhaps Evaporust is just a mix of 3% Sodium Bi-Sulphate and a small amount of Tetra Sodium EDTA? May be worth another experiment?
@@theaussienurseflipper.8113 Everything is made of chemicals. Coke is a food product and as such must have all the ingredients (ie. chemicals) listed on the label and in some countries it will also need an MSDS. The label indicates that Coke contains Food Acid 338 which is phosphoric acid, very definitely considered a "chemical" by the government. Phosphoric acid (and to some extent the dissolved carbon dioxide) is what gives Coke it's slightly prickly (ie. acidic) feel. Phosphoric acid is a key ingredient in a number of commercial rust converter solutions and this is why people will say that Coke can be used to remove rust but it isn't very effective because the concentration is low.
A small nitpick: Citric acid is not a "buffer" and you are not "buffering" the solution back to neutral. It is just an acid, and you are adjusting the pH back to a neutral value using an appropriate amount of the acid. A buffer is actually something different. A buffer contains a balance of particular chemicals which work together in such a way that they _maintain and resist changes to_ a particular pH level _even when other acids or bases are added._ That is, buffers will not change their pH even if you add acids or bases to them (up to the limit of their buffering capacity). None of the stuff you are using here is actually a pH buffer in the standard chemistry sense...
@@suprememasteroftheuniverse "Adjusting the pH to a neutral value" is _literally the definition_ of what "neutralizing" means (in this context). Just because you chose to use different terms which mean exactly the same thing does not make anything I said actually wrong.
@ElementalMaker: I used to work in a cheese factory where we used citric acid to remove rust stains from the concrete floors. We just sprinkled granulated citric acid on the stains and got them damp with a hose. After about 5 minutes we''d hose it off and the stains would wash away. I always wondered why it seemed to pull the rust out of the concrete. It being a chelating agent makes it obvious why. Thanks for this video.
I put evaporust in my 1931 model A , filled the cooling system and left it for days . Some say they drive it around with it in there . It definitely gets some crud out !
Although I'm sure you're way past this experiment I just came across your video and appreciated the idea trying to replicate the evapo-rust formula. I use gallons of the stuff so I can actually personally benefit from trying to make it. Your mention of the somewhat sweet, sulfur smell in the original product made me think about possible additional ingredients which might account for that and actually balance the formula. They may actually be using either cane or beet molasses which has a relatively stable pH 5-7 or nuetral for beet molasses. And since they also promote the product as environmentally safe to handle this ingredient makes sense . What do you think?
*I use this in a large bath to repurpose large rusted parts (radiators, compressors, transmissions etc etc) and have found that agitation is key to reducing the times.* If I can I simply place large totes inside my work vehicles, and the vibrations do all the work. But if the parts are too big, then I use a solar bubbler to keep the fluid moving. A "wiffle ball" is great for tumbling around and knocking into objects gently enough to work times down significantly. I just finished a car radiator and a HVAC evaporator in 3 hours. Shine like they are brand new!
A few commenters noted that the German sds actually lists the full ingredients. Unfortunately I can't obtain the main one outside of buying in metric tons from China. Big fan of your channel! Thanks for dropping a comment!
Great video and result i know i am super late to the party , any ways i was browsing around and checking alternatives and found this recipe : Tetrasodium EDTA: 5% by weight Citric Acid: 1-2% by weight Sodium Metabisulfite: 1-2% by weight Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH): To adjust pH Water: Balance to 100% don't actually know if it works , would love to try this my self but cant get ahold of EDTA here where i live . if i understand it correctly the diferencie is the Sodium Metabisulfite that acts as a catalyst to let the EDTA work (like aqua regia solution) and the Sodium Hydroxide is mostly just for balance PH .
For the last 50 years or so, I have been using a solution of approx. 15 to 1 water to molasses to remove rust ! It takes a while, (a week or two) but it is the least expensive and most effective and safest method I know of !
Interesting that EvapoRust smells sweet and you've found molasses capable of removing rust. Maybe adding a surfactant to your molasses solution would help speed it up a bit? I *think* (I could be wrong on this) that molasses also contains a bit of sulfur, too.
It destroys alloys and certain other metals. I use molasses and then after washing, dip it in phosphoric acid to give a protective coating until ready to paint.
@@MichaelT-ft3cz 5% EDTA and then bring the Ph to near 7 with the tannic acid. I believe that was the ratio I found. It's been a while. Make a small test batch before you make 3,000 gallons....
Having a lot of chelating power in solution increases the effective solubility of Fe3+ ions. There is no oxidizer in solution, O2 will not be bubbling out, the oxygen in Fe2O3 (real rust is not exactly that, but that does not mater for this point) will go into solution as oxide ions (O with 2- charge) and that immediately rips off a proton from a water molecule, forming two hydroxide ions. So the solution will get more basic as you dissolve more rust. But due to the low amount of rust its probably not noticeable.
There has got to be some sulfur-based reducing agent in Evaporust. I can smell H2S whenever I take something out of Evaporust. Perhaps sodium thiosulfate? It's cheap and non-toxic.
Apparently it contains water, a chelating agent, and a detergent. The FAQ says that "once the chelating agent has removed the iron, a sulfur bearing organic molecule pulls the iron away from the chelator and forms a ferric sulfate complex which remains water soluble. This frees the chelating agent to remove more iron from rust." So the chelating agent isn't the one that has the sulfur atom - it's probably the detergent.
Saw something like this on a different channel. (can't remember which one) but he had a similar approach and his solution was AWESOME! I keep it in my notes app. I'll paste it below here if you want to try it. You take 1 liter of water, 100 grams of citric acid, 40 grams of sodium carbonate (washing soda), and add an arbitrary amount of liquid dish soap. Mix together (Rust removal solution Is reusable)
3y old vid so hoping this is seen, but since citric acid is cheap and does well, why not try buffering it back toward neutral? Perhaps add a bit of borax or some weak base? Ammonia might be nice too. Either would give some added cleaning power.
One of the things i tried that worked really well for rusted nuts and bolts was tea it makes a good rust converter i made a strong brew of tea using teabags 5 teabags to about 500 mls of boilling water and put some rusted bolts in it overnite if i was going past i would give the jar a shake now and again and it converted the rust and freed up the rusted nuts sometimes you had to use some cresents to release the nut but once they started moving you could do them by hand I was quite surprised at how well it worked after the process you would still have to buff with a wire brush and treat them with some oil or crc to stop them from rusting But the process worked and got rid of the rust and its cheap to make
The citric acid sounds like it might be one of the best alternatives to evaporust just because of the accessibility. You can buy citric acid everywhere, so you don't have to order it.
Wouldn't it perhaps be better to use Sodium Sulfate to titrate the edta back to neutral? This would leave some free sulfur available to form the soluble Ferrous Sulfate compound that may contribute to the fast action of evaporust?
A comparison with oxalic acid would have been interesting, as it seems to have a good reputation for rust conversion. (Serendipity! I was _just_ looking for information on evapo-rust.) Very good, thank you.
In New Zealand Evaporust is $85.00NZD for 5 liters, $54.00USD for 1.3 gallons. I found it very hard to find a company that sells EDTA to the public But I will keep trying because I am eager to try your solution (No pun intended). Thanks for the information.
I wonder if instead of Citric acid that they might be using methylsulfonic acid. You had mentioned a sulfur compound and methylsulfonic acid is used in the recovery of metal salts like iron oxides and zinc. Combined with a chelating agent like EDTA I think it would be pretty effective.
The abnormal component of the chelating agent used would be the high selectivity they claim, saying it "bonds to iron exclusively" this is not true for EDTA which has quite a strong affinity to zinc (just to pick one of many), One other odd component is that they say it has no effect on hematite.
Hi I started using molasses and water 9:1 mix after watching an Australian fellow dipping an entire car in the stuff for rust removal. the stuff really works, much slower than Evaporust and the upside🤣 if you have some molasses left over you can make some cookies. Rich
Here is your missing ingredients - Another way of getting iron dissolving ions to the rust is to use salts instead of acids. Sodium phosphate or sodium sulphate ferric sulphate can be used
Am i the only person who just breaks off tiny little pieces of ph paper rather than using whole strips? Its quite cost effective. Also. A great rust solution is sodium sulfate, i usually have ALOT in my boiling flask from the fuming nitric acid distillation process. Its usually a big rick hard mass at the bottom that requires using water to dissolve it in order to remove it. Put it in a bucket and add in your rusty steel.. it makes hardened high carbon steel look very nice.. and if antool or blade is differentially hardened then you can see a really great contrasting demarkation between soft and hard steel. Really cool.
I"ve been told Molasses. It's how old timers used to remove rust from whole car frames, fenders and other items. Unfortunately it takes a very long time with it and you should NOT use it on cast iron very long or it will eat the sub layer. Here's a cool video by mrpete222; ruclips.net/video/6Ir1p4Eejl4/видео.html Thanks for sharing. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
I've used Evaporust for years, tried a bunch of other stuff and by far is the best. Yeah I wish it was a bit more affordable. I'm usually doing small parts and have found a soaked paper towel around the part in a zip type plastic bag with the air pressed out is a good way to economize that stuff.
When I needed to clean out an old motorcycle gas tank phosphoric acid in the form of Milk Stone Remover was recommended. After seeing the price of almost $30gal I considered other sources. While drinking a cold coca cola I read the ingredients and, lo and behold, there it was. The old tank was plugged and topped off with a couple 2ltrs of coke. A week later the tank was clean and free of gas smell. I proceeded to safely weld the pin holes without blowing myself up. BTW works well with aluminum tanks also.
Shame that his supplier links no longer work as getting hold of 100% purity EDTA at a reasonable price is far from as easy as he suggests outside the USA. Bottom line is it appears making your own (inferior) version of evapo rust is not cost effective outside the USA. You may as well use citric acid instead and control the etching by timely monitoring and rinsing.
Yeah unfortunately the supplier sold out and hasn't gotten more in stock in a couple months now, making this whole video pretty pointless because it's overpriced everywhere else I found out, so as of this moment it's not cost effective inside the USA either. A few months ago this video went slightly viral and caused the supplier to sell out.
I found a German datasheet from 2016: 80-90% water, 2-12% diammonium phosphonate, 3-10% sodium petroleum sulfonate not sure if its the same in the US or wether this is even accurate
That's interesting, the main Evapo-rust site has an SDS for Thermocure (removing rust from vehicle cooling systems) with "Diammonium Phosphate" in the same percentages as the proprietary ingredients in the Evapo-rust SDS with exactly the same safety and toxicity info.
Makes sense. The sulfonates would bond to the iron after the oxide has been stripped and protect it from re oxidizing. That is probably the darkened material that is left after all the oxide has been removed.
I think if one does the math the cost today, post covid and bidenomics. you will find edta is much higher. Bulk industrial grade Edta on Amazon goes for $26+ to over $32+. Personally, the benefits in terms of saving a few bucks are outweighed by the time lost in waiting for edta/citric to work its magic. As they say time is money.
I realize this is an older video. Thing I have to offer using vinegar is it woeks 10× better when it is hot! Not boiling, maybe coffee temp or slightly below. Changes its ability to remove rust dramatically. Not sure if the motility of the solution being hot/super warm is the key, but, works way better.
If you’ve got plenty of time (like a week or two) a basic molasses solution (around 9 parts water to 1 part molasses iirc) works great & is very gentle. Only problem is the smell, after a while it gets mouldy & doesn’t smell nice at all, but it works a treat.
I've used phosphoric acid as a rust removal agent for decades. There are certain grades of steel that it attacks, including most springs. The application where I liked it best was in restoring old motorcycle and classic car gas tanks. I also had no qualms about using it on cast iron. The big challenge is that finding a surfactant to improve the wetting of the solution is not easy; acid-stable candidates can be had in the industrial chemical market, but usually you have to buy them in unrealistic quantities. (I did that in the past, and ran out of what I had about a decade back.)
Here in Aus, a gallon (actually 5 litres) costs at least $60, and most places are asking $90, so it is expensive here. I had a look at the MSDS for evaporust, and it appears to be 15-20% sodium bisulfate (metabisulfate in solution), 80% water and a small amount of a surfactant. A DIY version would be 150-200g sodium metabisulfate, 800ml water and a couple of drops of dish soap.
Apparently sodium bisulfate is a strong acid used as a buffering agent. If you don't have a alkaline solution already, sodium bisulfate will make your solution very acidic. Do you know of a base used on evaporust to take the acid or vice/versa?
Metabisulfate doesn't exist, you are confusing with metabisulfite, used in homebrewing. Sodium bisulfite NaHSO3 only exists in solution (Na+ HSO3- aq.), it precipitates as sodium metabisulfite Na2S2O5. But that is unrelated to this process, which used sodium bisulfate NaHSO4, which does exist as a solid. It is basically partially neutralised sulfuric acid H2SO4, and still pretty damn acidic.
Thats interesting litres here in NZ 5 litres cost me NZD 50 at $10 a litre its cheaper than any other rust converter available. Including the CRC tantic acid based converter.
Nice video . I prefer Citric Acid myself for cost , However for some grades of Cast Iron Do NOT use Citric acid , Hydrochloric , Acetic or Phosphoric acid as it rips out the carbon molecules and softens the surface of the cast iron. For cast iron probably stick with Vaporust or fermented Mollasses. For Steel , definitely use Citric or your 4Na -EDTA
I've used plenty of phosphoric, and it doesn't clean rust off surfaces - it's great at converting what rust remains after you've cleaned a part up, leaving a finish similar to the Evaporust, but it's not really any good at getting the surface rust off in the first place.
Shew evapo rust $15 a gallon, I wish I could go back in time and buy a 55 gallon drum if it. Now it's $30 a gallon $130 for 5 gallons. But it works well when you really need to dissolve rust.
Could it be that if you used Sulfuric Acid (H2SO4) instead of the citric acid as the neutralizer it would work faster? That might be the source of the sulfur.
I'm guessing it's a lignosulfonate of some kind from what I found while searching. It's an organic byproduct of paper making, a chelating agent, and is listed as smelling like molasses.
become famous publish all the clues you can dig up. Someone else with a IR-VIS spectrophotometer will add to the knowledge base and so on. If you start a gofundme then I expect people who care will send you their coffee change to pay for your sample and consumables.
For small parts, I have found that a warm solution of citric acid(as shown here, approx 80-100F, if you want warmer, best to test) in an ultrasonic tank works very well, and the ultrasonic motion helps to agitate the loose particulate away from the parts. Of course, using a proper dilution is helpful. But its insanely cheap, can be dumped on the backyard garden/grass without issue, unlike heavier chemicals. Plus, citric acid is cheap cheap cheap. R/O water from the local water store, my local also offers RO/DI. With an ultrasonic, make sure to use a secondary container to hold your working solution in the tank of water. I use the same process for cleaning parts with solvents, things like small engine carbs and parts when rebuilding engines. Ultrasonic really speeds up the time, plus using a heated/warm solution vs room temperature.
It's safe for your grass, but be careful around bushes: I spend way to much on chelated iron as a safe herbicide to take out various broadleaf weeds. Seems I should have been using citric acid/edta and junk parts the whole time!
Why reduce the 11 ph to 6.5? It might work better at high alkalinity. Perhaps worth a try. Perhaps they use Sulfuric acid, "known in antiquity as oil of vitriol, a mineral acid composed of the elements sulfur, oxygen, and hydrogen, with the molecular formula H2SO4" to lower the PH,( yes that is a cut down bit from the wicked pedia) if their starting point is similar to yours. That would account for the sulfur. Abrasive blast cleaning seems to me to be a starting point if there is significant rust. No hydrogen embritlement worries especially in the higher strength steels being used more and more. Acid for flash rust treatment is one thing, any steel where strength matters, sitting in acid for a time bothers me. Then I really do not know much at all about hydrogen embritlement.
On the issue of sulfur containing chelating agents, a simple one would be Cysteine or N-Acetylcysteine (NAC). But it wouldn't be in the same range of cheap products. Also, the smell of sulfurated compounds is quite characteristic (you know, that smell....). If Evaporust had a significant amount of it you would smell it, something similar to sulphurised cutting oil. On the other hand, I'm speculating if that sweet smell you mention could be some type of Glycol? It can be used as an additive for corrosion treatment, or a soft pickeling agent (carbon steel).
watch Ed China "Dunking Our Rusty 1986 Range Rover Chassis in 1935 Litres of Evaporust". He explains the Evaporust active ingredient and how it works in that video.
We’ve always used phosphoric acid to clean the inside of carbon steel pipework. It really does a great job, but it’s nasty stuff. What the citric acid did in 8 hours, phosphoric does in 5 minutes...
Prices have really jumped from 2021 to May 2024. Amazon no longer has the ETDA that was linked. The cheapest 5 pound bag I could find was $69 (up from $30 when you made the video) making it $5.46 per gallon not including the citric acid. And Evaporust is now about $29/gallon on Amazon, up from $15 when you made the video. If anyone has a source for less expensive chems, please post it.
Yeah prices have gone nuts, and sadly the supplier I used no longer stocks the EDTA and everywhere else is double the price. I am working on a new formula that is essentially identical to Evaporust, but sadly I dont think we'll ever see those prices again, even the new formula im working onwill be more expensive unfortunately.
So, Sodium metabisulfite, Monosodium EDTA, MSM and Oxalic acid. These are all good Iron chelators. I wonder how I can make a better product. Maybe instead of Citric acid I balance Monosodium EDTA and water with oxalic acid, Then I mix Water and MSM and PH balance with Sodium Metabisulfite to the same PH and then I mix the 2 PH matched compounds together. I think im gonna try that.
It will eventually attack the underlying metal if the item is left in it for months or a year+. I had some items left in evaporust for like a year and the spring dissolved and the metal files fell apart.
This seems like a fair bit more than about 70 cents a gallon, am I calculating wrong? Your formula of 100mL of water and 5g of Tetra scaled up to a gallon if water would be about 190 grams of Tetra per gallon. That seems to be more than $5 a gallon?
Good job on trying for evaporust. On old radios what is used as well as evaporust is naval jelly. Use a tiny brush to put on the Naval jelly and it makes old rusty radio metal look new.
Might want to revise this price/gallon. Looks like the suppliers of EDTA are on to this and have jacked the price to hell. Price for EDTA is now $46 plus shipping for 500g. At 5g/100mL that works out to ~204g/gallon, roughly $19/gallon before shipping. It is still cheaper than Evaporust though, which is now at $28/gallon.
Nice! I know I'm alte to comment but that's gone right into my Maker Tips playlist. Phosphoric acid (H3PO4) is in a lot of soft drinks to make them a bit tart, coca cola I think for one - and I've had a phosphoric acid based "rust passivator" which you use to turn the metal black and not rust again. But a bit got through my rubber glove into a fresh cut and it was DEFIINITELY acidic (ask me how I know...) and so I immediately went to wash off and look up phosphoric acid and found out it's a food ingredient so wasn't likely to end in my slow agonising death. But I'd though it was s rust remover when in fact it converts rust so the best way I found to finish was to roughly wirebrush back thick rust and then apply the H3PO4, give it time to do its thing, and then wash down afterwards. It was also good to wirebrush bare new metal, spray salt and vinegar water over it and let it rust, then hit it with H3PO4 and - black surface that didn't rust again.
Sponsored by YOU! No seriously I couldn't do this without your support, so a big thanks to my patrons at www.patreon.com/elementalmaker. Please consider throwing a dime at this homeless guy you call ElementalMaker. Hes' homeless because he lives in his workshop. Not really. But Maybe.
Are you actually autistic? Me too.
thiourea and sulfamic acid? Two good suspects for the Evaporust secret recipe.
Edit: /salute from another 'technically homeless' guy living at work. This economy sucks.
Youre not homeless! Homeless guys have nasty beards, youre just a pair of Adam's Family extra's & a disembodied voice - your "home" could just be a pair of gloves! 😉
can make a vid on brewing and distilling alcohol?
You remind me of mr wizard from the late 70s- late 80s
Seven dislikes are from evaporust's patent lawyers sweating nervously
It's at 14 dislikes now
When I reverse engineer, I go STREIGHT for the SDS or MSDS! sometimes one gets lucky
@@davefellhoelter1343 No help in this case, unless you can tell me what "Trade Secret" is.
@@1978garfield I can't get my hands on any Evaorust to read the Haz or Active ingredients, but "I Have" OJT for Passivation in pharma, aero, electronics, and industrial. short of this my "go to" is Citric acid(vitimin C) @ about 180f after cleaning solvent of TSP at same temp for iron oxide rust removal.
@@davefellhoelter1343 vitamin C is ascorbic acid
it's about 30 dollars now but if you wanna buy 5 liters (1 gallon = 3,6 liters) of it in Sweden then prepare to spend 50 dollars.
Instead of EDTA, use Triethanolamine Phosphate.
Water 55-65%
Triethanolamine Phosphate 20-30%
Aluminium Sulphate 1-5%
Citric Acid 1-5%
Dipropylene Glycol Methyl Ether 1-5%
You have a source for this?
@@rogierius Yes, it’s printed on their gallon jug as per government regulation. It’s also been tested on a spectrometer for the active ingredient, and it’s only the Triethanolamine Phosphate among those things listed. If I can find the video again on the test, I will send you the link, friend.
Don't know if you know this but the best thing to remove rust is muriatic acid. Stuff removes rust like no one's business. Better than everything else.
Evapo-Rust contains sulfuric Acid and an Alkali, both neutralizes the end solution. (PH
How does HEAT improve the reaction speed? Also try Oxalic Acid (C2H2O4) and Sulfamic Acid (H3NSO3)
Good stuff, and great explanation! I really like how you reverse-engineered this so well! I have some phosphoric acid lying around, so I might have to test that out in a video...
I do have some parkerizing concentrate which is phosphoric acid, would that work as a rust dissolver? I do not know the concentration of the chemical but it does get quite diluted when used to parkerize firearms. A friend of mine uses 30% concentrate of cleaning vinegar. He says it works miracles. As for brass, there is a liquid product called "IOSSO CLEANER AND TARNISH REMOVER". It says safe for general use in cleaning brass cases. There is also a warning about storing it in a metal container. It would be interesting to find another alternative for this product. Where I live now the damn EU regulates way too much as to what is available to the general public. Can’t find Evaporust nor IOSSO here. Need both, especially the brass cleaner. I just dip our brass candleholders in the solution for a few minutes and then rinse. A quick way to bring back the shine after a light buffing.
Wait, this isn’t ProjectFarm! :)
Hahaha I was thinking the se thing!!!
NO thank god!!!! lol i love that channel but the speaking or lines or whatever u call the style he delivers he lines is soo distracting n hard to listen to, it would absolutely b one of my favorite channels if it wasnt for that, i guess it just seems kinda lazy with just reading off cards with no context its messes up the flow of the video n again is distracting. hell have cards or points written on stuff he wants to cover in the video but he reads them verbatim, like "evaporust is a great product. i use evaporust any chance i get. Evaporust wont damage the metal. Evaporust also hurt your skin and evaporust is non toxic" after a few times u can just say it!!!! lol that drives me so crazy i cant even watch the videos lol i write and its just lazy writing, u need to combine your thoughts at the end and let them flow without repetition or youll bore the reader
This is FrojectParm
I wasn't the only on thinking it, lol! I don't know what it is about that thumbnail/title combo that makes it look so ProjectFarm.
Evaporust at my local Advance Auto Parts is about $28 a gallon.
I found some patents for rust removers that use sodium EDTA and thiourea dioxide. Thiourea dioxide is a relatively stable reducing agent that (apparently) assists in converting rust to a more-soluble form. As can be deduced from its name, it contains sulfur. A paper by some Japanese researchers indicated that the best rust removal is obtained when the solution pH is close to neutral. Thiourea dioxide is used in the textile industry so should be readily available. An alternative to it might be sodium bisulfite. This also according to the Japanese research.
The big advantage of Evaporust is you can flood the surface using an aquarium pump. Run that overnight and rust is gone.
That's a great tip! Never thought to do that
and it's reusable. filter out particles and put back in to a clean container. keep used Evaporust separate from new Evap'st.
That, one can do with vinegar or other acids to.
Here's two chelants with sulfur atoms (softer electron density): dimercaprol, and succimer.
Dimercaprol and succimer both smell terrible. They might work, but your family might not be thrilled with you when you are using it.
I've never tried Evaporust myself, but I love trying to solve puzzle videos like this.
My quick analysis is that the green color is an important clue. It's showing that there is iron in solution, but it's starved for oxygen. You can test this by taking some of the green liquid and putting a little hydrogen peroxide in it, and seeing if it flashes to brown. If it does, but then turns green again, then there is another layer of buffering. To make your version better (I know it's already cheap as is, but better is better), it needs something to deplete the oxygen in the partially-used solution. The green iron oxidation state means it is ready to steal oxygen from rust, but the new fluid is supposedly clear to yellowish, so it must start with a first layer of oxygen remover to preserve it until initial uses, and to verify its freshness upon receipt. Based on the assumption that one of the ingredients is ferrous hydroxide, which is clear, but turns green when contaminated by oxygen, but you're assuming it contains soap, and watching a video of new liquid being poured... I suspect that one of the pH/oxygen buffers is glycerine.
You stated that it smelled a little like burned sugar too, and the MSDS says it's pretty much harmless to everything.
I therefore suspect that the ingredients include ferrous hydroxide, from ferrous sulfate and sodium hydroxide, and glycerine, which may smell sweet in a chemical reaction, but will form a useful soap with the excess hydroxide, while helping to buffer the pH, along with something like citric acid to get the pH down enough without using an excess of glycerine.
Wow. Look at that. Lots of useful information here. Anyone try this? I need a lot for a gas tank.
methanesulfonic acid
Chelating agents like phosphonates (>5%), possibly NTMP, EDTMP and DTPMP, are mentioned in their compound list.
@@pappaflammyboi5799 That makes sense. It would occupy dissolved rust and keep it from doing much chemically. Those kind of things would be behind making the solution last over multiple uses.
Hey Buck, have a look at what I have just posted and let us know what you think. I found and downloaded a US Military spec. "Corrosion Removing Compound, Sodium Hydroxide Base;
For Electrolytic Or Immersion Application" They state also "without causing material change in the dimensional characteristics of the treated article." Hydroxide conc. is pretty low.
If you have any EDTA left over after you are done, remember to keep it handy in case of vampire attack. It explodes on contact with vampire blood. (source: "Blade" 1998)
The *EXACT* moment he said EDTA, I immediately thought of Wesley Snipes saying that 😄
I tried this method to de-rust the rear end of my car in a large tub (didn't want to buy $600 worth of evaporust). What I found was that after soaking for a day, there was no visible difference--but I did notice I could more easily scratch rust off with my fingernail. So I decided to try taking it out and power washing it. Except for the very heaviest rust spots, the rust just washed away like dirt! It was miraculous! Hope that helps someone. Many thanks to ElementalMaker.
Thanks for posting !
Could you share the recipe on that large concoction?
I de rusted body panels on my car by using Hydrochloric Acid, and ordinary sand (as the scrubber). Wearing safety gloves, I soaked a rag with hydrochloric acid, then dipped this in dry sand, and started to scrub away. This really worked for me, and then I rinsed with plain water, because the rusting is immediate. Then treated the scrubbed surface with a Phosporic Acid. Washed this off the next day, and primed the bodywork with paint. Obviously, you must not breathe the Hydrochloric Acid Fumes, so please wear the appropriate Mask.
When I evaporust, I take the part out a few times a day and brush it.
That is what I used to do too. But, the evaporust seems to keep the part from rusting after rinsing a little better - especially things like gas tanks. Also, some items I use zinc-chromate primer, and that keeps the metal from rerusting. @@peterduxbury927
I was happy cause cant get Evaporust where I live, but then found out I cant get Tetrasodium EDTA either. Oh well :(
Honestly, nearly every form of EDTA should work...
it is just EDTA plus sodium hydroxide. you should have lye
....EDTA is used in food industry , right ?
Maybe the acids (vinegar and bare citric) would also benefit from some surfactant. My guess the "easy to peel" rust residues in the vinegar is actually a rust soaked in some grease, so not allowing sufficient penetration...
Now I can afford to soak engine blocks! Thanks!
Cook a cornstarch + vinegar goo then apply like paint
@@mamupelu565 this works?
@@Joe-bm4wx
Haven't found a english-speaking video but according to this one it works:
ruclips.net/video/f2DUJl6cCqg/видео.html
(he said that vinegar + salt in electrolysis is much better, but it has to be in a ventilated area and the object has to be submerged)
@@mamupelu565 yeah salt gives off chlorine gas under electrolysis
Ya but I don't want to be smelling vinegar for any amount of time but ya he said in the description about$0.75 a gallon you are going to pay that for distilled water so get a container big enough and should be good
In Australia evaporust is $100 per gallon so this helps me a lot 😁
@@AEON. - only the fancy beers... Just bought a 5 litre container for $A70, on special. $A425 for a 5kilo concentrated form that makes 30 litres (about 7.5 US gallons). Since Tetrasodium EDTA is about $25/kg, this is so much cheaper. Now to buy a small plunge pool and a crane...
Dear god, that's insane! I see a business opportunity. Start getting people to carry a couple liters in their checked luggage when they go to visit and we've got ourselves a nice little racket! Is that $100 in Australian monopoly money or American dollars?
Yeah $100 fuck that Vinegar or citric acid is cheap
Same in Canada
@WmSrite-pi8ck funny you call australian money monopoly money when american money is still made of paper lol :)
If evaporust finishes better maybe go with the diy mix for heavy intial removal and switch over for finishing. Then the evaporust lasts much longer.
In Australia they have to make the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) readily available to everyone. The MSDS for Evaporust indicates the active ingredient is Sodium Bi-Sulphate at 3% concentration (also known as Sodium Acid Sulphate or NaHSO4). NaHSO4 is commonly used as a pH decreaser for spas and dissolved in water would be an acidic solution, requiring buffering but perhaps Evaporust is just a mix of 3% Sodium Bi-Sulphate and a small amount of Tetra Sodium EDTA? May be worth another experiment?
Oops, I think the MSDS actually said Sodium Bisulphite (NaHSO3)
@@jimmylastname5321 How in the world is this off-topic?!? More info is good. Calm down and top trying to play gatekeeper.
According to the government, cola Coke is not chemical.
@@theaussienurseflipper.8113 Everything is made of chemicals. Coke is a food product and as such must have all the ingredients (ie. chemicals) listed on the label and in some countries it will also need an MSDS. The label indicates that Coke contains Food Acid 338 which is phosphoric acid, very definitely considered a "chemical" by the government. Phosphoric acid (and to some extent the dissolved carbon dioxide) is what gives Coke it's slightly prickly (ie. acidic) feel. Phosphoric acid is a key ingredient in a number of commercial rust converter solutions and this is why people will say that Coke can be used to remove rust but it isn't very effective because the concentration is low.
@@emilebarrett1167 it's on the label, I don't believe safety data sheet for coke.
A small nitpick: Citric acid is not a "buffer" and you are not "buffering" the solution back to neutral. It is just an acid, and you are adjusting the pH back to a neutral value using an appropriate amount of the acid.
A buffer is actually something different. A buffer contains a balance of particular chemicals which work together in such a way that they _maintain and resist changes to_ a particular pH level _even when other acids or bases are added._ That is, buffers will not change their pH even if you add acids or bases to them (up to the limit of their buffering capacity).
None of the stuff you are using here is actually a pH buffer in the standard chemistry sense...
Great to know, I had no idea
Neat. Thank you
He's not "adjusting the pH". This is called neutralization reaction. He's neutralizing the solution, Mr chemist.
yep and NaHCO3 is good, cheap and available every where, it keep the PH at aprox 7.5-8
@@suprememasteroftheuniverse "Adjusting the pH to a neutral value" is _literally the definition_ of what "neutralizing" means (in this context). Just because you chose to use different terms which mean exactly the same thing does not make anything I said actually wrong.
@ElementalMaker: I used to work in a cheese factory where we used citric acid to remove rust stains from the concrete floors. We just sprinkled granulated citric acid on the stains and got them damp with a hose. After about 5 minutes we''d hose it off and the stains would wash away. I always wondered why it seemed to pull the rust out of the concrete. It being a chelating agent makes it obvious why. Thanks for this video.
I put evaporust in my 1931 model A , filled the cooling system and left it for days . Some say they drive it around with it in there . It definitely gets some crud out !
Although I'm sure you're way past this experiment I just came across your video and appreciated the idea trying to replicate the evapo-rust formula. I use gallons of the stuff so I can actually personally benefit from trying to make it. Your mention of the somewhat sweet, sulfur smell in the original product made me think about possible additional ingredients which might account for that and actually balance the formula. They may actually be using either cane or beet molasses which has a relatively stable pH 5-7 or nuetral for beet molasses. And since they also promote the product as environmentally safe to handle this ingredient makes sense . What do you think?
*I use this in a large bath to repurpose large rusted parts (radiators, compressors, transmissions etc etc) and have found that agitation is key to reducing the times.* If I can I simply place large totes inside my work vehicles, and the vibrations do all the work. But if the parts are too big, then I use a solar bubbler to keep the fluid moving. A "wiffle ball" is great for tumbling around and knocking into objects gently enough to work times down significantly. I just finished a car radiator and a HVAC evaporator in 3 hours. Shine like they are brand new!
Neat! I know for a fact that it's not EDTA in Evapo-Rust.
A few commenters noted that the German sds actually lists the full ingredients. Unfortunately I can't obtain the main one outside of buying in metric tons from China. Big fan of your channel! Thanks for dropping a comment!
@@ElementalMaker So, what is the "main one" that you cannot buy ... ??
@@ElementalMaker Can you guys steer us in the right direction?
So what is it then?
……we all “know for a fact” you’re not going to share your “knowledge”……pity.
"Kind of interested in Rust right now..."
Ok, just try to keep a safe distance from the film set.
Great video and result i know i am super late to the party , any ways i was browsing around and checking alternatives and found this recipe :
Tetrasodium EDTA: 5% by weight
Citric Acid: 1-2% by weight
Sodium Metabisulfite: 1-2% by weight
Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH): To adjust pH
Water: Balance to 100%
don't actually know if it works , would love to try this my self but cant get ahold of EDTA here where i live .
if i understand it correctly the diferencie is the Sodium Metabisulfite that acts as a catalyst to let the EDTA work (like aqua regia solution)
and the Sodium Hydroxide is mostly just for balance PH .
For the last 50 years or so, I have been using a solution of approx. 15 to 1 water to molasses to remove rust ! It takes a while, (a week or two) but it is the least expensive and most effective and safest method I know of !
Interesting that EvapoRust smells sweet and you've found molasses capable of removing rust. Maybe adding a surfactant to your molasses solution would help speed it up a bit? I *think* (I could be wrong on this) that molasses also contains a bit of sulfur, too.
@@floorpizza8074Molasses create weak vinegar so nothing extra.
It destroys alloys and certain other metals.
I use molasses and then after washing, dip it in phosphoric acid to give a protective coating until ready to paint.
@@lazyj4732 what destroys?
@@otofoto Molasses
Wow you almost nailed it. Evaporust uses Tannic acid and Ca EDTA. Very cool video my friend.
How did you find what they used?
@@jackgriffiths6366 I am a chemical engineer.
@@Biokemist-o3k do you know the ratios? I need to soak some very large car parts.
@@MichaelT-ft3cz 5% EDTA and then bring the Ph to near 7 with the tannic acid. I believe that was the ratio I found. It's been a while. Make a small test batch before you make 3,000 gallons....
Having a lot of chelating power in solution increases the effective solubility of Fe3+ ions. There is no oxidizer in solution, O2 will not be bubbling out, the oxygen in Fe2O3 (real rust is not exactly that, but that does not mater for this point) will go into solution as oxide ions (O with 2- charge) and that immediately rips off a proton from a water molecule, forming two hydroxide ions. So the solution will get more basic as you dissolve more rust. But due to the low amount of rust its probably not noticeable.
Oh, no way, I though this was a project farm video when I clicked on it!
you could kinda tell it isn't because the title lacks "let's find out!" on it lol
There has got to be some sulfur-based reducing agent in Evaporust. I can smell H2S whenever I take something out of Evaporust. Perhaps sodium thiosulfate? It's cheap and non-toxic.
Molasses
Sodium dithionite?
Sodium sulphate, the salt of H2SO4, sulphuric acid. The sweet smell may be a glycol.
@@LiLi-or2gm I had the same thoughts :-)
Sodium Metabisulfite
Apparently it contains water, a chelating agent, and a detergent.
The FAQ says that "once the chelating agent has removed the iron, a sulfur bearing organic molecule pulls the iron away from the chelator and forms a ferric sulfate complex which remains water soluble. This frees the chelating agent to remove more iron from rust."
So the chelating agent isn't the one that has the sulfur atom - it's probably the detergent.
A sulphur based surfactant then.
@@bitTorrenter SLSA maybe? first thing that comes to mind from when I made soap back in the day
Perhaps the chelating agents such as the phosphonates NTMP, EDTMP and DTPMP? It is mentioned in their compounds list.
sodium petroleum sulfonate
Thioglycolic acid or sodium thiosulfate with Propylene glycol, PEG 400
I literally just threw out some bolts that sat in vinegar too long xD
Saw something like this on a different channel. (can't remember which one) but he had a similar approach and his solution was AWESOME! I keep it in my notes app. I'll paste it below here if you want to try it.
You take
1 liter of water,
100 grams of citric acid,
40 grams of sodium carbonate (washing soda),
and add an arbitrary amount of liquid dish soap.
Mix together
(Rust removal solution Is reusable)
3y old vid so hoping this is seen, but since citric acid is cheap and does well, why not try buffering it back toward neutral? Perhaps add a bit of borax or some weak base? Ammonia might be nice too. Either would give some added cleaning power.
One of the things i tried that worked really well for rusted nuts and bolts was tea it makes a good rust converter i made a strong brew of tea using teabags 5 teabags to about 500 mls of boilling water and put some rusted bolts in it overnite if i was going past i would give the jar a shake now and again and it converted the rust and freed up the rusted nuts sometimes you had to use some cresents to release the nut but once they started moving you could do them by hand I was quite surprised at how well it worked after the process you would still have to buff with a wire brush and treat them with some oil or crc to stop them from rusting But the process worked and got rid of the rust and its cheap to make
Better clean off those rusty nuts, no wife likes rust nuts 🌰 I see your collection of 18650 batteries, is someone making a battery bank?
👍 Bloody expensive in UK mate. $20 for a litre. So thank you so much for making this Video. I'll never buy it again at this price.
Same in Germany. I'm making my own, too.
I wonder what you can find if you send evaporust to a chemical analyzer
The citric acid sounds like it might be one of the best alternatives to evaporust just because of the accessibility. You can buy citric acid everywhere, so you don't have to order it.
It also doesn't require a hazmat charge for shipping, which also helps reduce shipping costs(if you need to have it shipped).
Wouldn't it perhaps be better to use Sodium Sulfate to titrate the edta back to neutral? This would leave some free sulfur available to form the soluble Ferrous Sulfate compound that may contribute to the fast action of evaporust?
Definitely worth a try!
A comparison with oxalic acid would have been interesting, as it seems to have a good reputation for rust conversion. (Serendipity! I was _just_ looking for information on evapo-rust.) Very good, thank you.
In New Zealand Evaporust is $85.00NZD for 5 liters, $54.00USD for 1.3 gallons. I found it very hard to find a company that sells EDTA to the public But I will keep trying because I am eager to try your solution (No pun intended). Thanks for the information.
Pure nature sells the Tetrasodium EDTA, price was reasonable & service was great :)
I wonder if instead of Citric acid that they might be using methylsulfonic acid. You had mentioned a sulfur compound and methylsulfonic acid is used in the recovery of metal salts like iron oxides and zinc. Combined with a chelating agent like EDTA I think it would be pretty effective.
The abnormal component of the chelating agent used would be the high selectivity they claim, saying it "bonds to iron exclusively" this is not true for EDTA which has quite a strong affinity to zinc (just to pick one of many), One other odd component is that they say it has no effect on hematite.
It does mention that 'Evapo-rust will remove "sacrificial coatings" such as bluing, browning, zinc, or other oxides'.
Hi I started using molasses and water 9:1 mix after watching an Australian fellow dipping an entire car in the stuff for rust removal. the stuff really works, much slower than Evaporust and the upside🤣 if you have some molasses left over you can make some cookies.
Rich
Hey Bud. All I can say is hearing your voice again after so long is music to my ears. lol. Haha, catch up with you soon mate. Take Care. 🇬🇧❤️🇺🇸🤙
It would be interesting to compare each of them with occasional agitation vs being in an ultrasonic cleaner.
Here is your missing ingredients - Another way of getting iron dissolving ions to the rust is to use salts instead of acids. Sodium phosphate or sodium sulphate ferric sulphate can be used
Am i the only person who just breaks off tiny little pieces of ph paper rather than using whole strips? Its quite cost effective. Also. A great rust solution is sodium sulfate, i usually have ALOT in my boiling flask from the fuming nitric acid distillation process. Its usually a big rick hard mass at the bottom that requires using water to dissolve it in order to remove it. Put it in a bucket and add in your rusty steel.. it makes hardened high carbon steel look very nice.. and if antool or blade is differentially hardened then you can see a really great contrasting demarkation between soft and hard steel. Really cool.
a little video about this process and effects won't hurt
I get 3 tests from each of my strips, I use tweezers to avoid getting it on me.
I"ve been told Molasses. It's how old timers used to remove rust from whole car frames, fenders and other items. Unfortunately it takes a very long time with it and you should NOT use it on cast iron very long or it will eat the sub layer. Here's a cool video by mrpete222; ruclips.net/video/6Ir1p4Eejl4/видео.html Thanks for sharing. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
I've used Evaporust for years, tried a bunch of other stuff and by far is the best. Yeah I wish it was a bit more affordable. I'm usually doing small parts and have found a soaked paper towel around the part in a zip type plastic bag with the air pressed out is a good way to economize that stuff.
Need to sit outside their factory and write down all the DOT labels on the trucks/rail cars going in.
In Australia, 5 litres, a gallon, near enough, I'd pushing $50, at a discount auto store.
Ouch that's truly painful!
When I needed to clean out an old motorcycle gas tank phosphoric acid in the form of Milk Stone Remover was recommended. After seeing the price of almost $30gal I considered other sources. While drinking a cold coca cola I read the ingredients and, lo and behold, there it was. The old tank was plugged and topped off with a couple 2ltrs of coke. A week later the tank was clean and free of gas smell. I proceeded to safely weld the pin holes without blowing myself up.
BTW works well with aluminum tanks also.
Shame that his supplier links no longer work as getting hold of 100% purity EDTA at a reasonable price is far from as easy as he suggests outside the USA.
Bottom line is it appears making your own (inferior) version of evapo rust is not cost effective outside the USA.
You may as well use citric acid instead and control the etching by timely monitoring and rinsing.
Yeah unfortunately the supplier sold out and hasn't gotten more in stock in a couple months now, making this whole video pretty pointless because it's overpriced everywhere else I found out, so as of this moment it's not cost effective inside the USA either. A few months ago this video went slightly viral and caused the supplier to sell out.
I found a German datasheet from 2016: 80-90% water, 2-12% diammonium phosphonate, 3-10% sodium petroleum sulfonate
not sure if its the same in the US or wether this is even accurate
You sir, are an absolute legend!
@@ElementalMaker hope it helps!
That's interesting, the main Evapo-rust site has an SDS for Thermocure (removing rust from vehicle cooling systems) with "Diammonium Phosphate" in the same percentages as the proprietary ingredients in the Evapo-rust SDS with exactly the same safety and toxicity info.
@@samthenerf cool, might be worth a try then
Makes sense. The sulfonates would bond to the iron after the oxide has been stripped and protect it from re oxidizing. That is probably the darkened material that is left after all the oxide has been removed.
I think if one does the math the cost today, post covid and bidenomics. you will find edta is much higher. Bulk industrial grade Edta on Amazon goes for $26+ to over $32+. Personally, the benefits in terms of saving a few bucks are outweighed by the time lost in waiting for edta/citric to work its magic. As they say time is money.
I realize this is an older video. Thing I have to offer using vinegar is it woeks 10× better when it is hot! Not boiling, maybe coffee temp or slightly below. Changes its ability to remove rust dramatically. Not sure if the motility of the solution being hot/super warm is the key, but, works way better.
Great tip thank you!
and, afterward you can drink it. I hear it cures cancer, lol.
.... "you can see the control hasn't changed, crazy"... lol
What's wrong with alkalinity?
It’ll eat the metal just like acid
This is excellent! Evaporust is super expensive and weirdly hard to find by me.
Here in Japan, a quart of Evapo-Rust is like >$200 USD!
Oh neat, I have some EDTA already... I can't even remember why I have it, degreasing maybe? I'll have to try it.
Good thing you do because the prices have gone nuts on that stuff if you can even find it in stock
If you’ve got plenty of time (like a week or two) a basic molasses solution (around 9 parts water to 1 part molasses iirc) works great & is very gentle. Only problem is the smell, after a while it gets mouldy & doesn’t smell nice at all, but it works a treat.
I was thinking the same. I willing to bet evapo rust contains un-sulfured molasses.
Doesn't smell nice would be the understatement of the year :-)
@@richardwindsor60 you ain’t wrong… it molds up nicely. I wonder if citric acid and edta cures that problem.
@@TheVTRainMan i bought some cheaper version of EvapoRust & that grew mould on it as well. It didn’t stink like the molasses though.
But when you're done you can just pour it out on the ground like the coca cola that I use!
Look up the patent application?
Evaporust smells like carbonised sugar? Molasses makes a great remover too.
I've used phosphoric acid as a rust removal agent for decades. There are certain grades of steel that it attacks, including most springs. The application where I liked it best was in restoring old motorcycle and classic car gas tanks. I also had no qualms about using it on cast iron. The big challenge is that finding a surfactant to improve the wetting of the solution is not easy; acid-stable candidates can be had in the industrial chemical market, but usually you have to buy them in unrealistic quantities. (I did that in the past, and ran out of what I had about a decade back.)
Here in Aus, a gallon (actually 5 litres) costs at least $60, and most places are asking $90, so it is expensive here. I had a look at the MSDS for evaporust, and it appears to be 15-20% sodium bisulfate (metabisulfate in solution), 80% water and a small amount of a surfactant. A DIY version would be 150-200g sodium metabisulfate, 800ml water and a couple of drops of dish soap.
Did your MSDS also said something about diammonium phosphonate?
Apparently sodium bisulfate is a strong acid used as a buffering agent. If you don't have a alkaline solution already, sodium bisulfate will make your solution very acidic. Do you know of a base used on evaporust to take the acid or vice/versa?
Metabisulfate doesn't exist, you are confusing with metabisulfite, used in homebrewing. Sodium bisulfite NaHSO3 only exists in solution (Na+ HSO3- aq.), it precipitates as sodium metabisulfite Na2S2O5. But that is unrelated to this process, which used sodium bisulfate NaHSO4, which does exist as a solid. It is basically partially neutralised sulfuric acid H2SO4, and still pretty damn acidic.
Thats interesting litres here in NZ 5 litres cost me NZD 50 at $10 a litre its cheaper than any other rust converter available. Including the CRC tantic acid based converter.
Nice video .
I prefer Citric Acid myself for cost , However for some grades of Cast Iron Do NOT use Citric acid , Hydrochloric , Acetic or Phosphoric acid as it rips out the carbon molecules and softens the surface of the cast iron.
For cast iron probably stick with Vaporust or fermented Mollasses.
For Steel , definitely use Citric or your 4Na -EDTA
I've used plenty of phosphoric, and it doesn't clean rust off surfaces - it's great at converting what rust remains after you've cleaned a part up, leaving a finish similar to the Evaporust, but it's not really any good at getting the surface rust off in the first place.
My hearing is failing. Did you say you had a rusty bolt with krusty nuts?
Shew evapo rust $15 a gallon, I wish I could go back in time and buy a 55 gallon drum if it. Now it's $30 a gallon $130 for 5 gallons. But it works well when you really need to dissolve rust.
I used to work at Evaporust, and I can tell you that it is made simply of distilled unicorn tears.
Could it be that if you used Sulfuric Acid (H2SO4) instead of the citric acid as the neutralizer it would work faster? That might be the source of the sulfur.
I'm guessing it's a lignosulfonate of some kind from what I found while searching. It's an organic byproduct of paper making, a chelating agent, and is listed as smelling like molasses.
Given how cheap this diy fluid is, it would be great for an ultrasonic parts cleaner
I Don’t have evaporust but I have a mass spec...
become famous publish all the clues you can dig up. Someone else with a IR-VIS spectrophotometer will add to the knowledge base and so on. If you start a gofundme then I expect people who care will send you their coffee change to pay for your sample and consumables.
@@KallePihlajasaari It would be wonderful if the recipe became public domain like Viagra, where the knock-off's don't cost much more than Asperin
For small parts, I have found that a warm solution of citric acid(as shown here, approx 80-100F, if you want warmer, best to test) in an ultrasonic tank works very well, and the ultrasonic motion helps to agitate the loose particulate away from the parts. Of course, using a proper dilution is helpful. But its insanely cheap, can be dumped on the backyard garden/grass without issue, unlike heavier chemicals. Plus, citric acid is cheap cheap cheap. R/O water from the local water store, my local also offers RO/DI. With an ultrasonic, make sure to use a secondary container to hold your working solution in the tank of water. I use the same process for cleaning parts with solvents, things like small engine carbs and parts when rebuilding engines. Ultrasonic really speeds up the time, plus using a heated/warm solution vs room temperature.
It's safe for your grass, but be careful around bushes: I spend way to much on chelated iron as a safe herbicide to take out various broadleaf weeds. Seems I should have been using citric acid/edta and junk parts the whole time!
Why reduce the 11 ph to 6.5? It might work better at high alkalinity. Perhaps worth a try. Perhaps they use Sulfuric acid, "known in antiquity as oil of vitriol, a mineral acid composed of the elements sulfur, oxygen, and hydrogen, with the molecular formula H2SO4" to lower the PH,( yes that is a cut down bit from the wicked pedia) if their starting point is similar to yours. That would account for the sulfur. Abrasive blast cleaning seems to me to be a starting point if there is significant rust. No hydrogen embritlement worries especially in the higher strength steels being used more and more. Acid for flash rust treatment is one thing, any steel where strength matters, sitting in acid for a time bothers me. Then I really do not know much at all about hydrogen embritlement.
Seeing this, I wonder if Evaporust could contain some tannic acid as well? That blueing looks like there is some passivating going on... Just an idea.
On the issue of sulfur containing chelating agents, a simple one would be Cysteine or N-Acetylcysteine (NAC). But it wouldn't be in the same range of cheap products. Also, the smell of sulfurated compounds is quite characteristic (you know, that smell....). If Evaporust had a significant amount of it you would smell it, something similar to sulphurised cutting oil. On the other hand, I'm speculating if that sweet smell you mention could be some type of Glycol? It can be used as an additive for corrosion treatment, or a soft pickeling agent (carbon steel).
I have used standard toilet cleaner with great succes. It’s quite aggressive and very affordable 😊
"Kind of interested in rust right now..."
Ok, Salad Fingers.
Wtf is salad fingers?
It's early 2000s flash videos, if you like weird it's for you. Also the feeling of rust on my salad fingers is orgasmic.
@@ElementalMaker What @Nate Sargeant said.
Be glad you don't know lol
Love Salad Fingers
watch Ed China "Dunking Our Rusty 1986 Range Rover Chassis in 1935 Litres of Evaporust". He explains the Evaporust active ingredient and how it works in that video.
We’ve always used phosphoric acid to clean the inside of carbon steel pipework. It really does a great job, but it’s nasty stuff. What the citric acid did in 8 hours, phosphoric does in 5 minutes...
Prices have really jumped from 2021 to May 2024. Amazon no longer has the ETDA that was linked. The cheapest 5 pound bag I could find was $69 (up from $30 when you made the video) making it $5.46 per gallon not including the citric acid. And Evaporust is now about $29/gallon on Amazon, up from $15 when you made the video. If anyone has a source for less expensive chems, please post it.
Yeah prices have gone nuts, and sadly the supplier I used no longer stocks the EDTA and everywhere else is double the price. I am working on a new formula that is essentially identical to Evaporust, but sadly I dont think we'll ever see those prices again, even the new formula im working onwill be more expensive unfortunately.
@@ElementalMaker so when u will upload video with new formula? :)
I read somewhere that diluted molasses did compare well to evaporate-rust. You think your buffered solution plus molasses might be the ticket?
So, Sodium metabisulfite, Monosodium EDTA, MSM and Oxalic acid. These are all good Iron chelators. I wonder how I can make a better product. Maybe instead of Citric acid I balance Monosodium EDTA and water with oxalic acid, Then I mix Water and MSM and PH balance with Sodium Metabisulfite to the same PH and then I mix the 2 PH matched compounds together. I think im gonna try that.
It will eventually attack the underlying metal if the item is left in it for months or a year+. I had some items left in evaporust for like a year and the spring dissolved and the metal files fell apart.
This seems like a fair bit more than about 70 cents a gallon, am I calculating wrong? Your formula of 100mL of water and 5g of Tetra scaled up to a gallon if water would be about 190 grams of Tetra per gallon. That seems to be more than $5 a gallon?
If you heat the liquids up the reaction happens much more quickly
This video has me wondering if I can find a tank big enough to submerge a whole car in
Always a good day when Elemental Maker uploads. Love the videos! I'm always checking the channel to see if I missed an upload
I buy evaporust through amazon, but it's like 35.00a gallon. Might look at home depot next time.
Good job on trying for evaporust. On old radios what is used as well as evaporust is naval jelly. Use a tiny brush to put on the Naval jelly and it makes old rusty radio metal look new.
Might want to revise this price/gallon. Looks like the suppliers of EDTA are on to this and have jacked the price to hell. Price for EDTA is now $46 plus shipping for 500g. At 5g/100mL that works out to ~204g/gallon, roughly $19/gallon before shipping. It is still cheaper than Evaporust though, which is now at $28/gallon.
Nice! I know I'm alte to comment but that's gone right into my Maker Tips playlist. Phosphoric acid (H3PO4) is in a lot of soft drinks to make them a bit tart, coca cola I think for one - and I've had a phosphoric acid based "rust passivator" which you use to turn the metal black and not rust again. But a bit got through my rubber glove into a fresh cut and it was DEFIINITELY acidic (ask me how I know...) and so I immediately went to wash off and look up phosphoric acid and found out it's a food ingredient so wasn't likely to end in my slow agonising death. But I'd though it was s rust remover when in fact it converts rust so the best way I found to finish was to roughly wirebrush back thick rust and then apply the H3PO4, give it time to do its thing, and then wash down afterwards. It was also good to wirebrush bare new metal, spray salt and vinegar water over it and let it rust, then hit it with H3PO4 and - black surface that didn't rust again.