3.23 PTU Engineering game play - First look
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- Опубликовано: 10 апр 2024
- 3.23 PTU Engineering game play - First look
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Игры
Engineering gameplay tier 0......... Go change all the lightbulbs!
I could not tell a difference between the schematic at the beginning and after you repaired the fuses. I hope we at least get an engineer armor that can snap fuses to holsters like magazines do to our combat armor right now. I cannot wait to see an engineer trying to run around the ship with fuses while the said ship is enacting evasive maneuvers tossing the engineer against the wall.
This type of multi-crew gameplay only works in a game like sea of thieves where the combat is not as fast paced. And you actually have time to patch holes, bail water, fire cannons, adjust sails, and make repairs with a crew of even just two or three. Star citizen as usual is making something so pedantically complicated that it won't get used in combat because people are still shooting at you.
@RookRiot1
Chris: "But in movies the action magically stops when the actors are talking!" I am sure we can have this in my game too!
@@Camural If the smallest ship was something like the Cutlass/Freelancer/Spirit scale than this could be viable. Not in a game with powerful single occupant fighters and gameplay focused on dogfights and twitch shooter mechanics.
Let's say for sake of argument that you were making a similar game in the setting of the expanse. Where a crew of 3 can reasonably run the smallest viable ship and a crew of 1 can sort of do it with heavy use of automation. Then you could incorporate this kind of on the fly repair system but it needs to be streamlined to hotkeys like you said so that it's not a huge investment of time that would be better spent maneuvering or shooting.
A better experience for all involved would be to have automated redundancy built into a ship, relays fuses and components that can be damaged, in a fight and keep going with diminishing returns. A component would not "fail" until all of the backup or buffer parts are destroyed. This gives the crew something to repair after a fight or after a narrow escape. And the hero Scotty moments reserved for when the ship has taken so much damage that it needs to be repaired to jump away or keep the reactor from going boom. Add in the force reactions in combat maneuvering to this and the nightmare compounds exponentially.
@@Camural Players: "Oh Really Chris ?, then we want Nicolas Cage as Armsdealer. We are sure we can have this in your game too"
@@artherion4301 Lord of war was still a good movie though.
@@RookRiot1 i know, its one of my fav movies
What a strange way to engineer a ship with inline fuses distributed around the ship instead of a resettable circuit breaker panel accessible by the pilot in the cockpit.
It would make more sense if these were something like emergency backup power cells and intentionally distributed for redundancy in case of damage. Engineering gameplay could then include rerouting, restoring, or boosting power for a limited time in a crisis.
They are redundancy backup power cells. And you can re-route and restore power and boost power using the relays. People should really get informed about how the system will work before trashing it. This is a tier 0 implementation just to test basic functionality -- a ton of the other systems are disabled at the moment.
No, CIG staff states these are fuses in their [Wave 1][EPTU AC Playtest] post.
Modern day pilots and astronauts don't run around their ships replacing fuses, they use a circuit breaker panel for reasons that should be obvious.
Also, "Tier 0" is sophistic jargon meaning "half-assed".
@@alistairbuckle3450 100% true
Maybe instead of a hotbar, one way they could streamline it is to do a simple check whether or not a fuse is in your inventory.
So rather than having to press 'i' to open your inventory, carry it, then place it, have it instead where when you press f to place, it will automatically pull from your inventory and place it. Otherwise, it will give a prompt like "fuse required" or something like that if you don't have any fuses in your inventory.
This simple check system could also work for other key/mission items like keycards so you're not having to constantly go back and forth between your inventory.
@Mootkins everything is better than:
-hitting I to open inventory
-right clicking on a fuse and click on carry
-closing inventory
-place the fuse
However, I think a hotbar works well, most games use it for a reason.
My concern about engineering is doing that job with the ship moving.
Right now, a little movement from the ship sends you to the ground unless you're sat.
The engineer is going to be like a pinball ball if the ship is in the middle of a combat. Maybe injured or worst.
@shangald yes you don't even get a nice seat in front of the engineering console, perfect with Star Citizen's farce reactions.
I guess Worf getting tossed around on the Enterprise bridge was an inspiration for Chris :).
I dont like the idea of a ship being completely cripled because one power relay fails. I think the sytems need to be more robust and only fail occasionally. And after the battle the crew does the repairs.
seriously, all you got to do on enterprise is tell geordi to reroute power and all is good. :D
@Power5 lol true.
@@Power5 That's exactly how engineering works in Star Citizen.
@@Billy-bc8pk yeah but geordi just pushes a few buttons 😁
@@Power5 Sure, Geordi just pushes a few buttons. He's head of engineering. It's some flunkie that has to go repair the EPS grid breach on deck five while Geordi polishes his silver banana clip.
If you don't like the f icon in the game menu there is an option to disable game interaction icon
CIG needs to realize that gaming conventions exist because you can't simulate real life without problems. They are reinventing the wheel and throwing out all of the lessons learned over the entire history of game development.
I‘m waiting for the engineering mini game of rearranging puzzle pieces with pictures of water pipes like in the original Bioshock.
@abavariannormiepleb9470 this would actually be a better design :)
This engineering/fuse game play Tier 0 is just silly:
-here have comically large fuses, Lego bricks?
-why do our space ships even have fuses, why not switches and why not more redundancy (oh yes then we wouldn't need engineers unless CIG is making it good)
-why are the relays and fuses in the open? Everyone can grab them and shoot at them
This is another disappointing very low effort Tier 0, comically bad
The UI is like that because it is "diegetic", it exists realistically within the game world! It is projected on your helmet, or convenient contact lenses if you aren't wearing one. Super innovative! Yes, when you want to interact with an object, you get options displayed in your helmet for you to choose. Maybe in the world of Star Citizen everyone is quadraplegic in a bionic suit and you are literally ordering the suit to pick up stuff, move and such. At least the UI is so cumbersome to use that it actually feels that way. So mission accomplished I guess. But was it the right mission?
I guess it's okay for a CIG tier zero implementation. Which isn't really saying much but it could be another Starfarer refuelling or Hull C loading/unloading.
There's a few space games with engineering and damage control in them like Void Crew and the upcoming Jump Ship that does this already better with smaller budgets and teams and way less time taken.
Jeez, imagine getting lost in a Starfarer trying to find these damn fuse boxes!
Jump Ship and Void Crew don't have life support systems, real-time dynamic fire, nor subcomponents.
@@Billy-bc8pk Star Citizen does right now? I haven't been able to play the 3.23 PTU yet so I don't know. But you can't compare one game right now and another for what it has planned one day to have. That's just dishonest.
Void Crew does have rudimentary life support. It controls O2 and temperature. Some weapons and map events might raise or lower your heat and you can vent your ship if you force open the airlock.
Some larger stations have a few destroyable subcomponents like radar dishes that will call reinforcements if left alone. And some larger ships have destroyable parts, such as hollow bombers and remnant frigates. And depending what you mean with subcomponents, player ship has installable components with additional modules to put in them.
I mean, wouldn't a easier way instead of adding a unnecessary hotbar, just have fuses attached to slots on your armour that you bring out with 4 or something
That will eventually become the plan, as they talked about specialised armour/clothes/equipment for specific roles.
why even a hotkey to place the fuse.. iff you got one fuse in your inventory, just hit Use key and place it... what else i should do there ?
Because it will get vr at some point so need some depth to it. The flickering, definitely don't need.
Someone is actually thinking ahead.
I think it would be cool if we could equip fuses as grenades they have similar size so it could work.
I agree on the UI. Less us more. But I don't want a quick bar. Instead why not make it so that you can interact with the empty slot and your character does the backpack reload animation so pull out the fuse.
The fuses could take a grenade slot on suit, maybe 2 or 3 per slot.
CIG needs to hire a designer that understands “fun” (as opposed to just adding tedium because it was mentioned on a backlog from 6 years ago)
Actually, you haven't needed to hold F to enter a seat. You can try that in current Live version. You just aim at a seat and hit F shortly. This has worked for years.
What is the actual point of all this?
CIG has a real obsession with making every action in game as “close to realism as possible”. What is the added value of engineering?
What’s next I’ll have to control the division of each individual cell the players body?
That there is no item selection on the bottom is because Chris wants a realistic an immersive experience and not a standard game. But i agree if you have a fitting fuse why do you need to select it in first hand. Simply press F and he puts it in. If you have multiple you get the common rose for selecting the right one.
@ChallengerCC then please tell us what is realistic about:
-Ships, vehicles, wrecks, containers, items having the mass of an empty paper bag?
-Dying of thirst in 90 minutes when running and 3 hours when standing still in a game without accelerated time?
-Dying of hunger in 5 hours when standing still in a game without accelerated time? You couldn't even go to sleep
-A game without any physics yet. No one is asking for perfect physics or Kerbal physics, just physics that look alright at first glance
-Handheld magical tractor beams that let us move containers with masses exceeding 100 tons without any effort?
-Planets and moons are as hot or cold as CIG wants them to be, atmosphere, distance to the sun or tidal lock plays no role
I could go on and on, Star Citizen is a pure magic game and this is fine for a game. I just don't see how a hotbar, something lots of games use, would make Star Citizen less realistic. Nothing is realistic in Star Citizen.
@@Camural I think its about getting as close as possible visually, acoustic and from gameplay to the best AAA Sci-fi movies. With immersion Chris means that you don't start a game. You as a person transition into the world and be part of it. Like in Jumanji. You see that clearly where he tried back in the day with this in-game simulation pods. So you don't simple load into arena commander, you go into a pod and experience that in a deeper layer like in inception.
@ChallengerCC yes exactly this: Chris wants to make an interactive scifi movie, not a fun and interesting game.
CIG often uses the excuse "it is a game" but we don't get a good 2D UI like in good games, no paperdoll like in good games, no hotbar.
BTW: The old starmap was terrible, even CIG said this many times in their videos over the years. You know what? CIG managed to make the old starmap look like it was great, the new starmap is way worse.
@@Camural I backed for a interactive sci-fi movie type of game. When it's not clear for everybody up to that point it's there fault. CIG tries to mimic the cool movie features as good as they can sometimes they fail and try a different approach therfore the development takes so long.
I didn't tested the new star map so can't speak about that
A relay gameplay lol? This just to kill big ships for solos, you already called this btw, in one of your vids. Long time ago, u were right
There will also be subcomponent gameplay, and engineering bugs/clogs you will have to use diagnostic tools to find/troubleshoot.
Having tried walking around in a Hercules while it's even gently turning, and getting floord plus knocked out repeatedly for my trouble, I don't see how this concept is compatible with the game. If this was offline maintenance or if we had inertial dampeners, or even handrails to move around the ship during combat it could work, but I'm not seeing that right now.
That UI panel with all the ghosting and light flickering is way too distracting, especially in a high stress situation
SC has this weird thing where it tries to be overly fancy. Engineering will be critical to keep the ship going, IMO it should be very simple.
I'd much more prefer a switchable 2D schematic of the ships components and where they plug into, kinda like an electronic schematic, but simplified! This 3D overcomplicated, 90% empty space UI is just a highlight of where the manhours go, into bells and whistles first and thought second.
@yourfavoritecrafter yep as always Chris only care about:
-eye-candy
-fluff
-time sinks
-cinematic cool looking UI
Chris never cares about:
-basics
-basic mechanics
-some very basic physics
-function
-usability
It's the same design for the mini-map. So technically they're resuing assets and designs to improve workflow. It's ironic, because your suggestion would increase dev time unnecessarily.
@@Billy-bc8pk I think this would apply if they didn't have 10+ years of dev time under the project's belt, It's unreasonable to say it would increase dev time at this point, they had more than enough time to develop both 2D and 3D map layout at this time, even if it would be something they started making 2 years ago.
And bruh how hard is it to take a screenshot of the existing 3D layout from the top, make layers of the ships floors and make it more readable?
You all heard him say it, STOP THE FLICKA!!!
Only joking Camural. Yes, this fancy UI adds nothing to the gameplay and is unnecessary. Also, bigger ships are now going to much harder to solo or run with low crew numbers. Although intentional, I fear CIG will overdo this feature and these fuses will be popping out all over the place, leaving the crew struggling to put them back in!
It's hard enough to get players in our turrets due to lack of interest. This gameplay won't be better and more interesting for players. They only kill the point of owning big ships!
@@TheIceJester Yep, pretty much! 😕
Your thumbnail gave a chuckle!
Can we already make the air out if a room to eva in ship or to stop fire we dont have atm? XD
@claudemercier1226 I don't think an atmospheric room system is in 3.23 yet.
I haven't checked yet, though.
the ui wheel is ofc made for controllers.. i hate it to =(
This system is gonna make a LOT of People buy much less ships, let alone big ships now. That was a dumb move by cig.
Nope, a lot of people will buy ships specifically to play engineering. If you want a big ship just to have a big ship, there is EVE. But this was always the plan.
@@Billy-bc8pk well wait and see. How do u think all the solo players with huge ships will react
@@kennethjensen730 ZMany were sold nearly a decade ago with the express caveat that they would need large crews to function, and CIG has made no hesitations in repeatedly outlining that they wouldn't even arrive until engineering/armour was in. So people should have been tipped off for that, just like we were never going to get the Idris playable in the game until at least engineering was done, because CIG has stressed that they didn't want people simply soloing a big ship with big guns.
Looks quite good for a start but the fuse-placing feels gamey and unrealistic.
you will love having no actually functioning reputation system and way of trusting anyone, so trolls just get on your ship to walk past the fuses and pick them up.
@the_babbleboom my electronic fuse box at home has a door :)
A fusible link is used to protect a device that requires electricity from receiving an overload of power, which might damage internal components. This is the most basic and primitive method for providing this kind of protection. The idea that we should run around a spaceship in the far future replacing fuses on the actual components is laughable, as spacecraft we have today have much more advanced and thus less labor intensive methods for this.
The idea that other players can target your components and damage them also ignores the fact that to do so would require penetrating the shield and the hull or (presumably) armored door protecting them, unless we are talking about heat damage that wouldn't be aided by a fuse. If I shoot my gaming PC with a gun, there would be one or more holes in the case and at least some of the internal components would be damaged. My PC is not designed for military applications, unfortunately, so any gun I could conceivably carry would most likely completely destroy my PC.
If I go outside my house with a weapon designed to fit and function on a military spacecraft and fire it at my PC, I would have a huge hole in my house in addition to a destroyed computer. If my house were in space when this happened, the last thing I'd be worrying about is replacing fuses.
This is not engineering. This is a silly mess of busy-work intended to fool us into thinking they are working on engineering. There has been absolutely no thought put into this as a functional part of an actual game. This is not fun, practical or even logical.
In your video you didn't address the part that we can now repair broken components with a box of hull scraps and our handheld magic beam gun. If we have the engineering ability to create a cheap handheld device (literally costs nothing in game to have as many as you want) that can rebuild all the internal and external structures of any component manufactured in the galaxy, how is it we still need to have a guy running around the ship replacing fuses.
When CIG says tier 0 what they mean is nonsense filler representing where one day actual gameplay may exist. Star Citizen is a very pretty tier 0 game, and I've pretty much given up any hope of it ever becoming what was promised within my lifetime.
@preechr yes this is another very low effort tier 0 implementation with a fancy holographic ghosting text UI to make it look special.
For year 12 and +670 million dollars, this is just sad.
Another magical repair beam, etc.
And those fuses are in the open I guess everyone can grab them or shoot at them.
Also from playing 3.23 the star map is not much better. Often still can not figure a path around moon to the other side. Hope this will get better but, I doubt it!
@MultiFishslayer we all know the current UI, the star map, inventory system etc. are just bad.
We accepted it because alpha.
However, what we are getting in 3.23 as new UI, new star map isn't much better, actually it is worse with ghosting text, ghosting icons, holograms and transparent background with no opacity slider.
Too bad CIG is so into holographic models. Would be better to just have a top down view of the ship. This is just messy..
2D , 3D. Flickering, who cares about that minor stuff. I like the display screen. We have been waiting for this part of the game for a long time. Finally it's here.
@lawrenceedwards8706 yes finally engineering game play is here in the lowest possible effort way.
We have to change fusees, the engineering console doesn't even have a seat, good luck doing this in the middle of the battle with CIG's farce reactions.
No one expect perfection but we expect a bit more from a 700 million dollar project in year 12.
@@Camural the patch hasn't been placed into actual use yet. In pyro they have solar burst that fry your systems. Can you imagine while you are in battle your systems go array. It adds uncertainty and excitement to the game. Isn't that what we want?
The relay layout makes no sense. Power loss locks the crew inside the cockpit, so how's that engi supposed to get back through the ship to replace relays. Currently no way to open doors unless (shooting them shouldn't work if they're power locked). Relay boxes are a joke. They're pulling a salvage on engineering. Engi doesn't have e a seat so if you get force reacted you can't Interact with the console. Should have just been the 3rd chair.... So dissapointing
It's not bad for t0. I gave my feedback that the engineering screen and fonts were too small. The A2 is a huge ship and I'm sure that they can make that screen bigger. Oh and the engineer needs a seat or you get thrown around during combat. Also, if we can auto reload out of a backpack, why not be able to grab a fuse from the backpack by clicking f?
This looks like hot garbage. Not just asthetically but mechanically. Why are we replacing fuses. When was the last time you replaced a fuse on your car... i had assumed (apparently wrongly so) that we would be doing things like rerouting power, or bypassing systems to force malfunctioning parts to work. This is us effectively running around the ship replacing lightbulbs.... this is dumb.
You will be doing that, but this is a tier-0 implementation to see how people handle the basics first. I doubt most people will adapt very well and they will have to keep it dumbed down.
After watching several videos on engineering , I'm not interested in it. Not my idea of fun. More like a pain in the ass! Not looking forward to it.
thanks for video!
@MultiFishslayer Chris has a way to make you interested in it because you might not be able to fly bigger ships solo anymore.
Seems like power is limited and an engineer has to decide what items to give power all the time.
its a game, and they cant please everyone, no one wants to make something they dont enjoy making. something people dont really think about it, the uis have a lot of thought put into just like the flicker it makes the screen more alive it makes it look real, it can be annoying but it feels alive its not just something on your screen. it doesnt feel like a game, thats is the purpose of star citizen, this isnt like any other game you play, so comparing with other games doesnt make sense.
@outsider2693 I have played hundreds of games. I never felt the need to have:
-flickering screens
-fancy holographic 3D UIs with ghosting text and ghosting icons
-animated moving UIs
-transparent UIs where light is shining through without an opacity slider
CIG's fancy UI doesn't solve anything but makes it harder to play the game, to use the UI.
There are lots of threads about this on spectrum.
The most important thing for any UI is:
-to display important information in an easy way
-to be usable
Its the dumbest system ive seen in SC to date. I must admit the gameplay feels completely stupid, and the destroys more than it helps. Lame.
Its so obvious engineering gameplay is going to devolve into one guy at the screen shouting orders at a relay monkey that only runs around replacing fuses. Its a start, but its also a lazy design, and if they dont improve it, its going to be one of those shit jobs they throw at guild noobies to haze them.
The whole inventory system is complete crap
Half a$$ed minium effort for maximum profit. Every change they make seems to make gameplay worse than before. Let's take a broken buggy mess and make it even more broken then sell more ships...🙄
LOL they are using a hollywood hologram effect but rendered on a computer monitor... I can't.. How are these guys this tunnel visioned with their art.
The fuses slapped around the ship in random locations looks so incredibly gamey. Like as if the ship is now first person map. I just don't get how lost these guys are with this stuff. Put the fucking fuses in the engineering area and leave them in the engineering area.
As someone else mentioned above -- they will be adding VR support post Vulkan. So no, it will not be a static hologram effect on a computer monitor, but eventually on VR headsets.
This looks terrible. Imagine you are alone, possibly on a medium ship, like a freelancer, and you need to swap fuse in a hurry under attack: do we really need to fight the stupid UI instead of just drag and drop the relay in the socket?
Why tre rule of cool always wins?
I really don't like any of this.
The engineering difficulty seems to mostly rely on the clumsiness induced by the terrible UI. Especially while moving and much more in battle when the character is heckled and in a hurry. There is very little room for refection. It's fairground sensations for brainless engineers.
Horrible gameplay !
Interactionkey animation is stupid
low effort, terrible UI nouf said
Hate it.