I remember GSP camping there against Nick years ago and recognized how it effectively shut him down. You just perceived/developed an amazing framework for grappling in MMA and handed it out to the world for free... pretty bad ass.
It seems Askren is very similar to Khabib in his style. Khabib also doesn't necessarily look to pass the guard and mount/back-take a la the traditional BJJ meta... Instead, Khabib dominates his opponents from half-guard and crucifix... He also utilized the wrist-ride very effectively against Michael Johnson, and riding people in general is his expertise. Top control is all that matters to him. Are you ever going to make a video on Khabib's ability to control fighters(or maybe you already have and I haven't seen it)... The way he controlled Michael Johnson and really everyone he's ever fought is awe-inspiring, and I'm sure there is a lot to be said about his game.
cool, I don't really think Khabib is a real "folk" wrestler though he uses some of the techs (like the crucifix, wrist control). Once you see the vids you can judge for yourself if their styles are similar I guess ...
Bill Gates theres always something to breakdown when it comes to fighting, especially when ur talking about one of the best guys in the world. Khabibs top game may look simple enough but theres gonna be a ton of little details that are unique to him that make him so much more effective otherwise everyone could do what he does. Its like what Rickson means when he refers to "invisible jiu jitsu." Also, another example of this, thats much easier to spot, is by watching a purple or brown belt compared to a black belt. For the most part they all know the same techniques and positions but the black belt knows little movements and shortcuts that make him more effective. Thats what makes bjj scouts videos so good because hes so knowledgeable that he is able to spot these little details that most of the world wouldnt catch otherwise.
I think these studies of yours which demonstrate the unique brilliance of Askren played a significant part in putting pressure on the UFC to give him a shot. You've educated many journalists & fans. Brilliant work.
When you look at what Craig Jones is saying about the sport now and when you look at instructionals like 'Power Ride' it becomes clear that this video was so ahead of its time. Beautiful work.
This is a great analysis of folkstyle wrestling. The control you get from riding in folkstyle wrestling is why American wrestlers specifically do so well. Can't wait for part two!
This is maybe the most fascinating dissection of grappling dogma I've seen. I've noticed nowadays Maia often elects to take half guard from the back instead of putting both hooks in. Link for the video with ND Tyson?
I wrestled for 8 yrs throughout school. Started BJJ at 29 and had no clue about subs or what to do on my back , but had a huge advantage when it came to just holding someone there and staying calm. Two years later and i'm happy to say I now know how to setup a sub or two. Great video btw!
Folkstyle wrestling and BJJ are a terrifying combination for MMA. If you look at a lot of what Dagestani MMA fighters do it's mostly these two arts with judo takedowns in the mix
eye opening as a pure striker i often wonder what's going on out there in clinch/on the mat, but those kinds of breakdowns help me a lot. appreciate this kind of work
BJJ Scout you are incredible, I am back into grappling and realized I'm leaning a lot on my folk style / freestyle wrestling as a kid in the tough situations and scrambles. It seemslike an epic coincidence that I found this channel.
This is very interesting. Fokstyle maybe is better than we thought. When i grapple we always use BJJ rules so you get your self thinking that those positions are best. Compared to folkstyle rules. I wrestled for 20 years and have been doing bjj on and off for 10 years now. I can say no one on my back can rear naked choked me without a gi. I have too good of hand fighting skills from all those years of wrestling. I give my back up all day long and I know the guys get mad when they can't submit me and then start to try cranks. (which are just wrestling moves so I am very used to those) I really want to get into the styles of true grappling and mix all the styles together. Really just like wrestlers have different riding skills so will all grapplers so you have to find what works for you. I would get my hooks in all day in wrestling and others would just ride a wrist. Just find what works for you and practice it until no one can stop even when they know it is coming. See Maia and Askren for proof that simple moves perfected is better than knowing a million moves kind of good.
Folkstyle is the best i think. It has everything and most importantly it teaches you how to ride and control opponents. Freestyle and greco does not so that. Anyone who wrestled in america knows how powerful folkstyle is.
I also recommended looking into Pankration it’s the mother art of grappling in a mixed martial arts scenario 2000 years ago the Greeks had invented the rear naked choke and there’s even some Ancient Greek art work of a centaur heel hooking a man.
I loved this breakdown. I use the ride all the time in BJJ both gi and no gi to set up a variety of subs, the kimora is my #1. As i pass guard and the opponent turtles I will follow them to the back and establish the ride position. I then reach across their back and grab the opposite side forearm or wrist from underneath their armpit, keeping heavy pressure chest to back helps keep them compressed in the turtle and easy to grab the forearm while the elbow is bent and unable to post. Once I get that as an "anchor" I drop my hips back and pull their forearm pinning it against the stomach and they are stuck. My back foot can post between their feet and my front knee goes right into the ribs between their knee and nearside elbow. From there they cannot roll away from you because that far side arm control takes away mobility in that direction, if they roll into you the back-take is automatic. The whole time the hand not grabbing the wrist is either posting for leverage/base while you establish control or is free to strike. Obviously there are no strikes in BJJ but I am always aware of positions that allow striking opportunities. I love BJJ and always recommend to those interested in martial arts training but the points system makes BJJ a weaker fighting style in general, just ask Rickson.
This is amazing. I'm recently learning about the systems that make up bjj, but now you present alternative systems that are just as effective! Amazing how many variations there are to one human body dominating another on the ground!
I think you do have to be a rocket scientist to know BJJ like you do. The rabbit hole runs deep, and most of this stuff was so over my head that it’s frustrating. Absolutely brilliant analysis. BTW, this video further supports the idea that BJJ should focus more on its real defense application as per Eddie Bravo’s Combat JJ.
If you mean the most skilled wrestler to compete in MMA, that's false. Cejudo has a gold medal and yoel and madsen have silvers. And if you mean the best at applying wrestling in mma id say that's false too. Masvidal caught him with the easiest most obvious anti wrestler move ever, almost as bad as a guillotine off a double
@@mpforeverunlimited I am a Masvidal vs. Diaz fan. I am a Askren fan as well and can say that the flying knee was something that caught Askren off guard. This doesn't nullify his ability to use wrestling but I wouldn't go with DC either as mentioned above. Obviously Khabib is the best since Askren needed a hip replacement.
This is a good example of how, imo, points systems in BJJ actually hinder the effectiveness. I quite often forgo taking the back to set up subs from turtle, or the "ride" position. Position is 100% important, however, the position itself needs to be focused on finishing, not simply control for controls sake, because now instead of defending against multiple things (position, sub attempts, and maneuverings into more disadvantageous positions), one simply has to defend one (the position itself). I quite often utilize very unorthodox positions in order to assert my game. Being "caught" in an omoplata position, for instance, is not always a hindrance. In fact, I will quite often bait the omoplata attempt, in the hopes that they indeed lasso my arm so I may get to one of my passing "homebase" positions. It looks dangerous, and would probably result in an advantage or even a point for the other guy, but actually more often than not I am completely safe (unless of course the other person knows how to counter my game from here or is just all around better). Sub only, I think, is the future of BJJ, and is what we need for the art to reach its full potential.
Ross Davidson I like catch-wrestling for the reason, that they never try to score points, and they grind into subs, and they get subs from crazy ankles and ways I like Sakuraba very much, cause his grappling in MMA back in the day was based on: "Fuck guardpassing, I got your legs" or "Thanks for the limb, I will take it!" He never grappled for positions but he grappled for subs. don't get me wrong, you need positions, but in MMA it is way harder to fight for positions than in BJJ comps. so, learn Kimuras from all crazy ankels, learn leg locks
Oh totally. Leg locks are just now really starting to get the attention they deserve. For a long time they've been thought of as position-less gambles that just result in your face getting smashed. But now people are starting to see that, oh wait, leg lock positional control is incredibly technical and effective, and a proper heel hook is one of the most devastating subs in the arsenal. As for kimuras, I don't even finish them usually. But their effectiveness for transitions is super useful.
Ross Davidson I love Kimuras even as a physically weak person, you have a powerful grip, you can takedown people with it, you can go for subs (kimura itself, armbars etc.) I like them, even if they're considered strong men moves!
Sub-only grappling has its own meta. People sacrificing positions just to get submissions is not a good strategy in MMA. Knowing how to pass guard and hold positions is still a more effective than going for subs that sacrifice positions. The best MMA grapplers are usually those who are highly decorated in ADCC i.e. Demian, Gunnar, Jacare... They're not as flashy as Gary Tonnon but they understand how to hold positions in MMA long enough to work a submission.
I noticed Askren is so adept at top positioning it almost looks like breakdancing. Spinning on top of opponents but retaining chest pressure is next level. Then he almost levitates and spins into side control to grind away. It's art. Just getting his foot out of half guard is a clinic. But it's all about putting it together along with freakish strong hand grip power and his brain.
Awesome vid. I believe the folkstyle meta, combined with opportunistic BJJ (back takes, full mount), is the future of MMA grappling. Shuts down BJJ, decreases vulnerability, and increases likelihood of winning. Some other fighters who do this: -Stipe Miocic (perhaps the most pure example, his grappling is exclusively folkstyle. He literally refuses to take the back, even when opponent is totally gassed (see Hunt, Nganou). -Cain Velasquez -DC -Khabib (has unique elements though, such as his approach to guard play. He stands from guard and HG to pass, and if opponent retains guard he just stands again). Interesting that 3 of them come from the same camp at AKA. Also, interestingly enough, Cain, DC and Khabib all engaged the BJJ meta in their most recent fights by taking the back with hooks. It’s like they’re recognizing that it opens up more opportunities, and you can still disengage and return to a ride if you need to. Khabib took the back with hooks vs Al, Cain took the back vs Browne, and DC took the back with hooks vs Oezdemir. On a separate note, Cain is the best HW in the world, his loss to Werdum was a fluke, and he’s the biggest disappointment in modern MMA history. He should be dominating the UFC right now. Anyways...
Awesome, do you think catch wrestling could work well in tandem with Folkstyle, establishing superior positions for both striking and submissions? Or do you think it would face the same either/or scenarios you pointed out for folkstyle vs BJJ?
This was a very cool analysis. Something I've noticed in my BJJ game which your video reminded me of, I'm just a white belt to take that as you will, is that getting dominant positions such as full mount and the back don't really guarantee submissions against experienced opponents. People who have been grappling for a little while "turtle-up" in these positions and are very tight with their hands, prevent chokes and other submissions. This could result in a poorly attempted attack which just gets reversed. The way I've started to get around this is that instead of fishing for these dominant positions and then fishing for attacks, is to instead work on transitions, i.e. side-control -> north-south -> side-control, to trap and isolate arms, or to catch someone in a submission while they're trying to escape.
I think you did a fantastic job of breaking down wrestling functionality in a fight. The music really did distract me, though. If you commented instead of music, this would be even better. Great job, man.
I would also say a lot of what you are talking about in this video, is true of Georges St. Pierre. The Gracies did a breakdown of why he stopped finishing, and it's largely because there is just little to no point in giving up top position to go for a submission. Particularly in UFC rules where top position more or less ensures you win the round. Whereas risking a submission is just not worth it.
That ride from turtle leads directly into a side mount smash that gives you great opportunity to strike with the opponents hips pinned under yours. You never see bjj guys utilize side mount smash because there is no opportunity to submit from there. I love that you made this video. I only do bjj, but everyone asks if I wrestle because I prefer to utilize rides from turtle and clock towards the head for north-south // crucifix from side control. Too many bjj guys are savvy to mount/back escapes so maintaining those positions is difficult. Rides + smashes tend to give me really good control positions because most bjj guys aren't familiar with how to escape. Also, way too much emphasis on knees on the ground in bjj. When riding or in side control you can make the opponent carry much more of your weight with knees off the ground.
I never realized it until watching this, but I utilize the top side crucifix and the back ride as Askren does regularly. The down side to my BJJ is it's control/ride heavy and submission weak. On the other side, I also like to weave and active post like Maia.
Extremely educational, as always, thanks so much for sharing it with us! Are there any plans on covering Gordon Ryan or anyone else of the DDS (I know you did Garry a while ago, and made a post about Eddie Cummings on Flograppling, which was super helpful to me) and there phenomenal sub only approach? I would supremely love this! Looking forward to anything coming of you in the future. One of the best, if not THE best, channel für Grappling/MMA breakdowns!
Recently started watching MMA and was fascinated by Ben's dominance . I found his fights to be interesting, never really understood why people found them boring. Now that he is finally in UFC, waiting to see if he can prove people wrong.
You forget he’s not the only one to of implemented folk into mma Matt Hughes also had done that. Love what you’re doing man keep it I’ve been looking at all of these lately to help me build an idea of what I’m wanting in my arsenal when training and seeing as I already have an extensive background in wrestling (6-7yrs worth) I’m glad that it’s looked upon with respect in the mma world
if hs wrestling taught me anything it was how to take someone down, and take them down via chopping down the 4 legs of the table. i love how he adapted that to fighting.
the comments about u putting fighters at a disadvantage by making these videos are insane! Your videos are amazing and teach us bjj/mma hobbyist and/or fans a lot but I seriously doubt ur revealing too much to mma coaches at the highest level who watch hours of tape in order to come up with a game plan for their fighters!
Interesting breakdown dude, I am intrigued with the concept of 'meta' based on someones background and the rulesets that create the 'meta'. I try to utilise arm drags from the bottom in either open guard or bottom half/butterfly ahh a lot of single leg opportunities present themselves in my rolls if the partner stands up and being a pure BJJ gym cannot defend a single leg TD appropriately. I try to use bits and pieces of wrestling in my rolling and its definitely a flavour I want to always incorporate in my grappling style in some way.
I was a D1 college wrestler. I'm a bjj black belt but can honestly say I know less Bjj than most blue belts. My game consists of strong takedowns, front headlocks, stack pass, front headlocks, and Peterson rolls and funk rolls from bottom. When I get back on top I front head lock to side control. If that doesn't work I front head lock. Instead of taking back and mount I spin front to north south. If he rolls to his belly I front head lock and repeat till submission.
when i do bjj I love to work leg riding & bananna splits and the wrestler guillotine position (twister in bjj)...also some nice calf crushers around to look for when leg riding...
There's a seminar of Cormier and Valzquez in Russia and they go through a lot of them sequences. They even seemed to have a strike count in each position before they Consider their risk of letting their opponent escape.
it has improved my butterfly guard immensely. I've been watching all of his matches online to try and pick apart what he does for opponents who are using standing passes. BJJ Scout did such an amazing job of breaking down his game for the opponent on their knee's, and I'm dying to see part two!
It's improved my game as well. Normally in half guard, I have two options: Electric chair or oldschool sweep... Half butterfly guard, and the way Adam uses it has really helped me...
Dope! Cutting edge stuff! Are riders like Askren susceptible to rolling kneebars from the turtle position? I know he is familiar with the move and the defense as well but is riding effective against a high level leg lock specialist. Even just the threat could make someone think twice about riding. Just thinking out loud. Thanks for the content!
Excellent video. THIS is why it is elite FOLKSTYLE wrestlers who dominate MMA, not International European wrestlers. The top/bottom game of the Olympic styles is completely useless in MMA.
Bill, what part of what I said is not true? Cormier was an elite NCAA Folkstyle wrestler before being on the Olympic team. Cejudo is not really holding up to the hype. And he also did Folkstyle at an elite level before transitioning to MMA.
@bjjscout I incorperate wrestling as follows, as a big guy with realitvley short limbs, triangles from guard and dynamic back attacks have never been a real good idea, so from my first day ive focused on getting up with an under hook rather than finding guard, or going to half then getting up on the under hook or out the back door eg, deep half or electric chair. . when on top, side control and top crusifix where my go to for the first year or 2, and moving north south to sit on peoples heads and kimura them, when some one is turtled i always spiral ride first, if i can just flatten them out there is no point taking thier back, if i can't spiral ride that usualy means they are posting wide enough to make getting hooks easier any way, when i snap down or sprawl on a front head lock i never look for a gilotine unless there is a wall to push them into, never pull guard, but get the front head lock then spin to side back, or if they sit in to guard as i spin to side back i will cradle them and flatten them out in side control, all that said over the years i have developed some powerfull mount, back and guard attacks but never go to mount or the back unlesss they are giving it to me, and always dismount or disback when feeling unstable, i also dont use guard if i can just get up, and never jump off top for an arm bar eg spider web, never give up position for a submission, wrestling control first, submission second, I developed this game in bjj gyms and have never wrestled, it just seemed more logical to me from the begining,
BJJSCOUT. Folkstyle is also an excellent base to develop a submissions system based on. That's what catch as catch can wrestling is. This video points out 90% of the reasons I always preach catch wrestling. Also no Kurtka Sambo (which isn't a thing, but what I mean is Sambo grappling in MMA) is extremely similar to catch wrestling, so a study of Khabib Nurmagomedov exemplifies what I feel is a great grappling system for mma.
cool, ben has a lot of subs too, mainly from breaking the guy first though, so i'll mainly gloss over it as I want to focus on his movement mechanics etc (in most of my vids I rarely cover finishes if you notice)
That's fair enough. I love your videos and insight. One thing to consider though is that these wrestling rides can lead to a different approach to submission fighting in general. You'll see fewer things like armbars (because these give up position) and more toe holds, and kimuras.
Black hole sun and say it ain't so instrumental or what? Either way it's 🔥🔥🔥🔥 I just found myself humming the words of say it ain't so right on the last 30 seconds or so haha
Ball and Chain ride and Turks are one of the most underused thing in MMA IMO. Khabib and Woodley use them often as well. Woodley more so against half guard.
Like Billy Robinson said CACC is the best wrestling style for MMA. Folkstyle comes from catch wrestling, that's why it is good for MMA but submissions are missing. In brief, catch wrestling = folkstyle + submissions.
I guess Maia would say that the beauty in bjj is in having your opponent at your mercy but finishing the fight without hurting your opponent. I guess his end is to get your neck. Striking can be a useful tool but too much of it makes it less alike his messeage (don't know if I said right). But the idea behind free limbs while making your opponent inmobile is the biggest difference in the styles that can be applied to Maia's bjj. Just a basic interpretation of a matter in which I have no business talking in.
Josue Valazquez. No doubt, in wrestling the mentality is much rougher. You want to make your opponent as uncomfortable as possible, in MMA this translates to beating him up as much as possible. Bjj is more about taking him out whereas wrestling is about taking his will. This is a difference in philosophy, for example in BJJ the guy will attempt to establish position to start looking for a submission. Guys like Gary Tonnon are amazing at this and fun to watch. In catch wrestling, the idea would be to punish the guy so much that he is exhausted and mentally broken, then you take the submission. In the old days those submissions would usually lead to a pin, but they liked making people quit too.
I love that 'break his will' philosophy and wish to implement it into BJJ as much as possible. Any good resources you'd recommend for catch principles?
Hey thanks man, that's good. But.. JUDO-Judo is... special. The Gi makes ALL the difference, the grip fighting, it's two totally different worlds. And of course the rules! BJJ in Gi vs Judo I would say has 2 major differences: not much time on the ground in Judo and the BJJ player won't give you the back where the Judoka ALWAYS gives you the back, basically. But thanks, I find all this hugely interesting. Just someone with your observational skills and depth of understanding (no butt-kissing) might have super valuable insights also for us Judoka.. Mark
He's an expert on grappling with a good sense of humour. He has a very good command of English however it's probably not his first language, else he probably would've narrated the vids from the start. There's some clues for the better detectives than me to follow.
Hooks are just as much wrestling as bjj. Knee on the belly/guard pass is only bjj. A lot of people don't know cause they aren't popular but there are even a form of submissions in wrestling. He's an incredible wrestler, a great grappler, a natural but inexperienced bjj practitioner, and amazing mma athlete (maybe the best at his weight class) in my mind
When is part 2 for this? I am chomping at the bit over here!!! And I would also like to see a Khabib study. His cage wrestling mixed with Judo is sick and he also uses a control/ground and pound style like Askren just not as high level imho. No offense to Khabib cause he is one of my favorites.
This video was incredible. Is there a reason the 2 metas can't be mixed? I.e. someone that loves crucifixes and pins and gnp but takes the back like Maia does?
Awesome video once again yo!!! A couple of questions is that vid of Niel Degrasse Tyson explaining one of his favorite pins (I know he wrestled)? Also although I respect the BJJ meta's effectiveness, I've always followed a meta close to Folk Wrestling due probably to the fact that I have a Judo background. I noticed this video featured Ben using an Iowa ride which I've found useful for Japanese Necktie setups could you maybe do a video on that position? Thank you for sharing your grappling genius sir!
I remember GSP camping there against Nick years ago and recognized how it effectively shut him down. You just perceived/developed an amazing framework for grappling in MMA and handed it out to the world for free... pretty bad ass.
It seems Askren is very similar to Khabib in his style. Khabib also doesn't necessarily look to pass the guard and mount/back-take a la the traditional BJJ meta... Instead, Khabib dominates his opponents from half-guard and crucifix... He also utilized the wrist-ride very effectively against Michael Johnson, and riding people in general is his expertise. Top control is all that matters to him.
Are you ever going to make a video on Khabib's ability to control fighters(or maybe you already have and I haven't seen it)... The way he controlled Michael Johnson and really everyone he's ever fought is awe-inspiring, and I'm sure there is a lot to be said about his game.
I'd love to see a video on Khabib as well!
cool, I don't really think Khabib is a real "folk" wrestler though he uses some of the techs (like the crucifix, wrist control). Once you see the vids you can judge for yourself if their styles are similar I guess ...
BJJSCOUT look similar to me but I want a especific Khabib video 😁
Oh man, a Khabib study on his takedowns / control methods would be amazing
Bill Gates theres always something to breakdown when it comes to fighting, especially when ur talking about one of the best guys in the world. Khabibs top game may look simple enough but theres gonna be a ton of little details that are unique to him that make him so much more effective otherwise everyone could do what he does. Its like what Rickson means when he refers to "invisible jiu jitsu."
Also, another example of this, thats much easier to spot, is by watching a purple or brown belt compared to a black belt. For the most part they all know the same techniques and positions but the black belt knows little movements and shortcuts that make him more effective.
Thats what makes bjj scouts videos so good because hes so knowledgeable that he is able to spot these little details that most of the world wouldnt catch otherwise.
I think these studies of yours which demonstrate the unique brilliance of Askren played a significant part in putting pressure on the UFC to give him a shot. You've educated many journalists & fans. Brilliant work.
When you look at what Craig Jones is saying about the sport now and when you look at instructionals like 'Power Ride' it becomes clear that this video was so ahead of its time. Beautiful work.
This is a great analysis of folkstyle wrestling. The control you get from riding in folkstyle wrestling is why American wrestlers specifically do so well. Can't wait for part two!
This is maybe the most fascinating dissection of grappling dogma I've seen. I've noticed nowadays Maia often elects to take half guard from the back instead of putting both hooks in.
Link for the video with ND Tyson?
That interview in the beginning says it all.
I wrestled for 8 yrs throughout school. Started BJJ at 29 and had no clue about subs or what to do on my back , but had a huge advantage when it came to just holding someone there and staying calm. Two years later and i'm happy to say I now know how to setup a sub or two. Great video btw!
Folkstyle wrestling and BJJ are a terrifying combination for MMA. If you look at a lot of what Dagestani MMA fighters do it's mostly these two arts with judo takedowns in the mix
I don't usually comment on videos, but I've been a long time follower and just want to show my appreciation for these bad ass videos 👊
Good stuff! Also Cormier and Velasquez have used riding to great advantage.
eye opening
as a pure striker i often wonder what's going on out there in clinch/on the mat, but those kinds of breakdowns help me a lot.
appreciate this kind of work
Please do a study on Khabib Nurmagomedov's wrestling and ground and pound!!!
stfu
@@mixedmartialnutrition1746
You stfu
You are one/collection of the best mind/minds in the MMA game.
Best channel in this YT world.
Congrats from the dearest of my heart by professor Marius, faixa preta
Centurion Jiu Jitsu head coach, Florence (ITALY)
cool italy! always amazed where these vids get watched from. thanks for the kind words.
BJJ Scout you are incredible, I am back into grappling and realized I'm leaning a lot on my folk style / freestyle wrestling as a kid in the tough situations and scrambles. It seemslike an epic coincidence that I found this channel.
This is very interesting. Fokstyle maybe is better than we thought. When i grapple we always use BJJ rules so you get your self thinking that those positions are best. Compared to folkstyle rules. I wrestled for 20 years and have been doing bjj on and off for 10 years now. I can say no one on my back can rear naked choked me without a gi. I have too good of hand fighting skills from all those years of wrestling. I give my back up all day long and I know the guys get mad when they can't submit me and then start to try cranks. (which are just wrestling moves so I am very used to those)
I really want to get into the styles of true grappling and mix all the styles together. Really just like wrestlers have different riding skills so will all grapplers so you have to find what works for you. I would get my hooks in all day in wrestling and others would just ride a wrist. Just find what works for you and practice it until no one can stop even when they know it is coming. See Maia and Askren for proof that simple moves perfected is better than knowing a million moves kind of good.
Folkstyle is the best i think. It has everything and most importantly it teaches you how to ride and control opponents. Freestyle and greco does not so that. Anyone who wrestled in america knows how powerful folkstyle is.
I also recommended looking into Pankration it’s the mother art of grappling in a mixed martial arts scenario 2000 years ago the Greeks had invented the rear naked choke and there’s even some Ancient Greek art work of a centaur heel hooking a man.
@@MCJOHNSON95 and folkstyle is derivative of Catch-as-Catch-Can Wrestling.
I loved this breakdown. I use the ride all the time in BJJ both gi and no gi to set up a variety of subs, the kimora is my #1. As i pass guard and the opponent turtles I will follow them to the back and establish the ride position. I then reach across their back and grab the opposite side forearm or wrist from underneath their armpit, keeping heavy pressure chest to back helps keep them compressed in the turtle and easy to grab the forearm while the elbow is bent and unable to post. Once I get that as an "anchor" I drop my hips back and pull their forearm pinning it against the stomach and they are stuck. My back foot can post between their feet and my front knee goes right into the ribs between their knee and nearside elbow. From there they cannot roll away from you because that far side arm control takes away mobility in that direction, if they roll into you the back-take is automatic. The whole time the hand not grabbing the wrist is either posting for leverage/base while you establish control or is free to strike.
Obviously there are no strikes in BJJ but I am always aware of positions that allow striking opportunities. I love BJJ and always recommend to those interested in martial arts training but the points system makes BJJ a weaker fighting style in general, just ask Rickson.
This is amazing. I'm recently learning about the systems that make up bjj, but now you present alternative systems that are just as effective! Amazing how many variations there are to one human body dominating another on the ground!
great video. grappling is the single greatest advantage in the game.
By far the most honest take on folkstyle from a professed BJJ analyst. Thanks for this breakdown.
Another spectacular breakdown! Thanks for all the work and spreading of different ideas and techniques!
I think you do have to be a rocket scientist to know BJJ like you do. The rabbit hole runs deep, and most of this stuff was so over my head that it’s frustrating. Absolutely brilliant analysis.
BTW, this video further supports the idea that BJJ should focus more on its real defense application as per Eddie Bravo’s Combat JJ.
Askren is probably the best MMA-wrestler the sport has ever seen.
Travis Kraft i’d say dc
If you mean the most skilled wrestler to compete in MMA, that's false. Cejudo has a gold medal and yoel and madsen have silvers. And if you mean the best at applying wrestling in mma id say that's false too. Masvidal caught him with the easiest most obvious anti wrestler move ever, almost as bad as a guillotine off a double
@@mpforeverunlimited I am a Masvidal vs. Diaz fan. I am a Askren fan as well and can say that the flying knee was something that caught Askren off guard. This doesn't nullify his ability to use wrestling but I wouldn't go with DC either as mentioned above. Obviously Khabib is the best since Askren needed a hip replacement.
This is a good example of how, imo, points systems in BJJ actually hinder the effectiveness. I quite often forgo taking the back to set up subs from turtle, or the "ride" position. Position is 100% important, however, the position itself needs to be focused on finishing, not simply control for controls sake, because now instead of defending against multiple things (position, sub attempts, and maneuverings into more disadvantageous positions), one simply has to defend one (the position itself). I quite often utilize very unorthodox positions in order to assert my game. Being "caught" in an omoplata position, for instance, is not always a hindrance. In fact, I will quite often bait the omoplata attempt, in the hopes that they indeed lasso my arm so I may get to one of my passing "homebase" positions. It looks dangerous, and would probably result in an advantage or even a point for the other guy, but actually more often than not I am completely safe (unless of course the other person knows how to counter my game from here or is just all around better).
Sub only, I think, is the future of BJJ, and is what we need for the art to reach its full potential.
Ross Davidson I like catch-wrestling for the reason, that they never try to score points, and they grind into subs, and they get subs from crazy ankles and ways
I like Sakuraba very much, cause his grappling in MMA back in the day was based on: "Fuck guardpassing, I got your legs" or "Thanks for the limb, I will take it!"
He never grappled for positions but he grappled for subs.
don't get me wrong, you need positions, but in MMA it is way harder to fight for positions than in BJJ comps.
so, learn Kimuras from all crazy ankels, learn leg locks
Oh totally. Leg locks are just now really starting to get the attention they deserve. For a long time they've been thought of as position-less gambles that just result in your face getting smashed. But now people are starting to see that, oh wait, leg lock positional control is incredibly technical and effective, and a proper heel hook is one of the most devastating subs in the arsenal. As for kimuras, I don't even finish them usually. But their effectiveness for transitions is super useful.
Ross Davidson I love Kimuras
even as a physically weak person, you have a powerful grip, you can takedown people with it, you can go for subs (kimura itself, armbars etc.)
I like them, even if they're considered strong men moves!
Kimura-ing my way into armbars has opened up SO many submissions for me.
Sub-only grappling has its own meta. People sacrificing positions just to get submissions is not a good strategy in MMA. Knowing how to pass guard and hold positions is still a more effective than going for subs that sacrifice positions. The best MMA grapplers are usually those who are highly decorated in ADCC i.e. Demian, Gunnar, Jacare... They're not as flashy as Gary Tonnon but they understand how to hold positions in MMA long enough to work a submission.
I noticed Askren is so adept at top positioning it almost looks like breakdancing. Spinning on top of opponents but retaining chest pressure is next level. Then he almost levitates and spins into side control to grind away. It's art. Just getting his foot out of half guard is a clinic. But it's all about putting it together along with freakish strong hand grip power and his brain.
Ofc this man was a major pioneer for American wrestling and is the godfather of scrambling.
Amazing. You really nailed it this time.
Awesome vid. I believe the folkstyle meta, combined with opportunistic BJJ (back takes, full mount), is the future of MMA grappling. Shuts down BJJ, decreases vulnerability, and increases likelihood of winning.
Some other fighters who do this:
-Stipe Miocic (perhaps the most pure example, his grappling is exclusively folkstyle. He literally refuses to take the back, even when opponent is totally gassed (see Hunt, Nganou).
-Cain Velasquez
-DC
-Khabib (has unique elements though, such as his approach to guard play. He stands from guard and HG to pass, and if opponent retains guard he just stands again).
Interesting that 3 of them come from the same camp at AKA. Also, interestingly enough, Cain, DC and Khabib all engaged the BJJ meta in their most recent fights by taking the back with hooks. It’s like they’re recognizing that it opens up more opportunities, and you can still disengage and return to a ride if you need to. Khabib took the back with hooks vs Al, Cain took the back vs Browne, and DC took the back with hooks vs Oezdemir.
On a separate note, Cain is the best HW in the world, his loss to Werdum was a fluke, and he’s the biggest disappointment in modern MMA history. He should be dominating the UFC right now. Anyways...
Cain should be returning soon. DC said he's healthy again and wants to fight. I would love to see Lewis vs Cain or Blaydes vs Cain.
The more I wait but these videos the lore I understand the game and technical aspects of these keep up the good work man!! 👍👍
Awesome, do you think catch wrestling could work well in tandem with Folkstyle, establishing superior positions for both striking and submissions? Or do you think it would face the same either/or scenarios you pointed out for folkstyle vs BJJ?
He its modern martial artist,love your videos,shame they never answered your question.(I wouldn’t be able to though haha)
This was a very cool analysis. Something I've noticed in my BJJ game which your video reminded me of, I'm just a white belt to take that as you will, is that getting dominant positions such as full mount and the back don't really guarantee submissions against experienced opponents. People who have been grappling for a little while "turtle-up" in these positions and are very tight with their hands, prevent chokes and other submissions. This could result in a poorly attempted attack which just gets reversed. The way I've started to get around this is that instead of fishing for these dominant positions and then fishing for attacks, is to instead work on transitions, i.e. side-control -> north-south -> side-control, to trap and isolate arms, or to catch someone in a submission while they're trying to escape.
I think you did a fantastic job of breaking down wrestling functionality in a fight. The music really did distract me, though. If you commented instead of music, this would be even better. Great job, man.
Dope stuff. Been watching your videos for years now without even realizing it. Thats how excited i am on your contents 👍
wow, glad you found the channel finally heh
I would also say a lot of what you are talking about in this video, is true of Georges St. Pierre. The Gracies did a breakdown of why he stopped finishing, and it's largely because there is just little to no point in giving up top position to go for a submission. Particularly in UFC rules where top position more or less ensures you win the round. Whereas risking a submission is just not worth it.
New viewer and Pleasant surprise seeing Kaid Brock randomly. Great guy. Go Pokes
That ride from turtle leads directly into a side mount smash that gives you great opportunity to strike with the opponents hips pinned under yours. You never see bjj guys utilize side mount smash because there is no opportunity to submit from there.
I love that you made this video. I only do bjj, but everyone asks if I wrestle because I prefer to utilize rides from turtle and clock towards the head for north-south // crucifix from side control. Too many bjj guys are savvy to mount/back escapes so maintaining those positions is difficult. Rides + smashes tend to give me really good control positions because most bjj guys aren't familiar with how to escape.
Also, way too much emphasis on knees on the ground in bjj. When riding or in side control you can make the opponent carry much more of your weight with knees off the ground.
nice channel my man, nice instrumentals make this content even better. good work!
I never realized it until watching this, but I utilize the top side crucifix and the back ride as Askren does regularly. The down side to my BJJ is it's control/ride heavy and submission weak. On the other side, I also like to weave and active post like Maia.
Great content! Here from MMa coach. Never thought about meta!
Haha I just noticed all the example sweeps/takedowns from turtle near the end there are from Eduardo Telles. Love that dude.
One of the best youtube channels imo
Beautiful work/analysis BJJ Scout
Fire study, as always. The music was pretty lit too.
Extremely educational, as always, thanks so much for sharing it with us!
Are there any plans on covering Gordon Ryan or anyone else of the DDS (I know you did Garry a while ago, and made a post about Eddie Cummings on Flograppling, which was super helpful to me) and there phenomenal sub only approach?
I would supremely love this!
Looking forward to anything coming of you in the future. One of the best, if not THE best, channel für Grappling/MMA breakdowns!
Gosh dang genius. Best video you've done yet. PS LOVE THE CELLO COVERS
I like using wrestling to never concede guard if I don't want to. Attacking a single from bottom and forcing a different kind of exchange
Is that black hole sun as the outro? Thats pretty rip Chris
yes it was, RIP indeed
Jolly Cocks no it isnt.
Nice Weezer too bro...
The very end is Say It Ain't So by Weezer
Say it ain't so at the end, perfection.
Recently started watching MMA and was fascinated by Ben's dominance . I found his fights to be interesting, never really understood why people found them boring. Now that he is finally in UFC, waiting to see if he can prove people wrong.
these videos are sooooo good!! thanks for posting
You forget he’s not the only one to of implemented folk into mma Matt Hughes also had done that. Love what you’re doing man keep it I’ve been looking at all of these lately to help me build an idea of what I’m wanting in my arsenal when training and seeing as I already have an extensive background in wrestling (6-7yrs worth) I’m glad that it’s looked upon with respect in the mma world
MATT HUGHES IS THE MAN !!!
Excellent video!!!! Thank you for making and uploading!
if hs wrestling taught me anything it was how to take someone down, and take them down via chopping down the 4 legs of the table. i love how he adapted that to fighting.
the comments about u putting fighters at a disadvantage by making these videos are insane! Your videos are amazing and teach us bjj/mma hobbyist and/or fans a lot but I seriously doubt ur revealing too much to mma coaches at the highest level who watch hours of tape in order to come up with a game plan for their fighters!
Interesting breakdown dude, I am intrigued with the concept of 'meta' based on someones background and the rulesets that create the 'meta'. I try to utilise arm drags from the bottom in either open guard or bottom half/butterfly ahh a lot of single leg opportunities present themselves in my rolls if the partner stands up and being a pure BJJ gym cannot defend a single leg TD appropriately. I try to use bits and pieces of wrestling in my rolling and its definitely a flavour I want to always incorporate in my grappling style in some way.
Great content. Keep it up!
I was a D1 college wrestler. I'm a bjj black belt but can honestly say I know less Bjj than most blue belts. My game consists of strong takedowns, front headlocks, stack pass, front headlocks, and Peterson rolls and funk rolls from bottom. When I get back on top I front head lock to side control. If that doesn't work I front head lock. Instead of taking back and mount I spin front to north south. If he rolls to his belly I front head lock and repeat till submission.
STFU BITCH
Hey little prick I'm gonna tell your mom that you're being an asshole online again.
Lol why would you be a black belt but only have the knowledge of a blue belt?
@@victortobias6948 obvious troll, everything leads to a front head lock. LOL
"I'm a bjj black belt but can honestly say I know less Bjj than most blue belts" then you are not a black belt. You may wear one... but you aren't.
when i do bjj I love to work leg riding & bananna splits and the wrestler guillotine position (twister in bjj)...also some nice calf crushers around to look for when leg riding...
The biggest advantage from folk style comes from the mental and physical toughness. The atmosphere in the training is one of the most brutal.
There's a seminar of Cormier and Valzquez in Russia and they go through a lot of them sequences.
They even seemed to have a strike count in each position before they Consider their risk of letting their opponent escape.
3:25 Rickson did an umpa vid with Budo Jake. He clears the space where his head was before bridging. Could this be why the sweep here got stuffed?
Thanks so much!
Please post the part two of the Adam wardinzski study!!
Yes, please! I loved that one!
it has improved my butterfly guard immensely. I've been watching all of his matches online to try and pick apart what he does for opponents who are using standing passes. BJJ Scout did such an amazing job of breaking down his game for the opponent on their knee's, and I'm dying to see part two!
It's improved my game as well. Normally in half guard, I have two options: Electric chair or oldschool sweep... Half butterfly guard, and the way Adam uses it has really helped me...
soon! don't frett, I'm working on it...
You rock! :) I couldn't thank you enough for doing what you do for the grappling/combat arts community
Dope! Cutting edge stuff! Are riders like Askren susceptible to rolling kneebars from the turtle position? I know he is familiar with the move and the defense as well but is riding effective against a high level leg lock specialist. Even just the threat could make someone think twice about riding. Just thinking out loud. Thanks for the content!
Thats a great question.
Excellent video. THIS is why it is elite FOLKSTYLE wrestlers who dominate MMA, not International European wrestlers. The top/bottom game of the Olympic styles is completely useless in MMA.
Bill, what part of what I said is not true? Cormier was an elite NCAA Folkstyle wrestler before being on the Olympic team. Cejudo is not really holding up to the hype. And he also did Folkstyle at an elite level before transitioning to MMA.
Cejudo is the current UFC Flyweight champ. Not sure how that isn't holding up to the hype.
oh wait nm, your post is a year old lol
This video is a complete masterpiece.
Beside the the knowledge u put in the channel man u got the best music ever
Takedowns and turtle escapes. I haven't tried any funk rolls yet but i would.
Blew my mind!!!! Love ur content!!!
Such an eye opening video, thank you.
That was truly great. I would like to hear how people incorporate their/this wrestling into their bjj?
@bjjscout I incorperate wrestling as follows, as a big guy with realitvley short limbs, triangles from guard and dynamic back attacks have never been a real good idea, so from my first day ive focused on getting up with an under hook rather than finding guard, or going to half then getting up on the under hook or out the back door eg, deep half or electric chair. . when on top, side control and top crusifix where my go to for the first year or 2, and moving north south to sit on peoples heads and kimura them, when some one is turtled i always spiral ride first, if i can just flatten them out there is no point taking thier back, if i can't spiral ride that usualy means they are posting wide enough to make getting hooks easier any way, when i snap down or sprawl on a front head lock i never look for a gilotine unless there is a wall to push them into, never pull guard, but get the front head lock then spin to side back, or if they sit in to guard as i spin to side back i will cradle them and flatten them out in side control, all that said over the years i have developed some powerfull mount, back and guard attacks but never go to mount or the back unlesss they are giving it to me, and always dismount or disback when feeling unstable, i also dont use guard if i can just get up, and never jump off top for an arm bar eg spider web, never give up position for a submission, wrestling control first, submission second, I developed this game in bjj gyms and have never wrestled, it just seemed more logical to me from the begining,
I'm completely lost at the end with the pic of Tyron/Askren. This is like trying to solve the DaVinci Code
Excellent analysis!!!!!
BJJSCOUT. Folkstyle is also an excellent base to develop a submissions system based on. That's what catch as catch can wrestling is. This video points out 90% of the reasons I always preach catch wrestling. Also no Kurtka Sambo (which isn't a thing, but what I mean is Sambo grappling in MMA) is extremely similar to catch wrestling, so a study of Khabib Nurmagomedov exemplifies what I feel is a great grappling system for mma.
cool, ben has a lot of subs too, mainly from breaking the guy first though, so i'll mainly gloss over it as I want to focus on his movement mechanics etc (in most of my vids I rarely cover finishes if you notice)
That's fair enough. I love your videos and insight. One thing to consider though is that these wrestling rides can lead to a different approach to submission fighting in general. You'll see fewer things like armbars (because these give up position) and more toe holds, and kimuras.
Damn you got me singing black hole sun!
Excellent work. Thank you!
Awesome. I'm in. Subscribed.
Black hole sun and say it ain't so instrumental or what? Either way it's 🔥🔥🔥🔥 I just found myself humming the words of say it ain't so right on the last 30 seconds or so haha
i would call it meta switch. i would say different style for a different purpose. great videos i love these
GSP follows a similar strategy. He'll camp in side control or use the ride from turtle.
Ball and Chain ride and Turks are one of the most underused thing in MMA IMO. Khabib and Woodley use them often as well. Woodley more so against half guard.
excellent as always
Like Billy Robinson said CACC is the best wrestling style for MMA. Folkstyle comes from catch wrestling, that's why it is good for MMA but submissions are missing. In brief, catch wrestling = folkstyle + submissions.
Folkstyle plus bjj no gi= killer, ifyou good wrrstler is good to train in 10 planet or in a bjj that ficus no gi, other good choice is luta livre
Tony Ferguson for the win!
Loving the Ben Askren videos.
I guess Maia would say that the beauty in bjj is in having your opponent at your mercy but finishing the fight without hurting your opponent. I guess his end is to get your neck. Striking can be a useful tool but too much of it makes it less alike his messeage (don't know if I said right). But the idea behind free limbs while making your opponent inmobile is the biggest difference in the styles that can be applied to Maia's bjj. Just a basic interpretation of a matter in which I have no business talking in.
Josue Valazquez. No doubt, in wrestling the mentality is much rougher. You want to make your opponent as uncomfortable as possible, in MMA this translates to beating him up as much as possible. Bjj is more about taking him out whereas wrestling is about taking his will. This is a difference in philosophy, for example in BJJ the guy will attempt to establish position to start looking for a submission. Guys like Gary Tonnon are amazing at this and fun to watch. In catch wrestling, the idea would be to punish the guy so much that he is exhausted and mentally broken, then you take the submission. In the old days those submissions would usually lead to a pin, but they liked making people quit too.
Theodore Wurz awesome insight.
Thanks
I love that 'break his will' philosophy and wish to implement it into BJJ as much as possible. Any good resources you'd recommend for catch principles?
Excellent content! Thank you!
Advanced shit, thank you! Wish you'd do this on Judo...
hi I have a lot of studies on Ronda Rousey and her use of Judo in MMA, do check those out
Hey thanks man, that's good.
But.. JUDO-Judo is... special.
The Gi makes ALL the difference, the grip fighting, it's two totally different worlds. And of course the rules!
BJJ in Gi vs Judo I would say has 2 major differences: not much time on the ground in Judo and the BJJ player won't give you the back where the Judoka ALWAYS gives you the back, basically.
But thanks, I find all this hugely interesting. Just someone with your observational skills and depth of understanding (no butt-kissing) might have super valuable insights also for us Judoka..
Mark
Gi is stupid; mma is no gi
Not all MMA is No-gi, Western MMA is mostly no-gi though.
Incredible analysis
I love your videos. Who are you? Are you someone famous and I don' realize it or are you just a random guy?
BJJ Scout IS famous for the best grappling breakdowns on youtube.
He's an expert on grappling with a good sense of humour. He has a very good command of English however it's probably not his first language, else he probably would've narrated the vids from the start. There's some clues for the better detectives than me to follow.
He's actually "The Most Interesting Man in the World"...
Hooks are just as much wrestling as bjj. Knee on the belly/guard pass is only bjj. A lot of people don't know cause they aren't popular but there are even a form of submissions in wrestling. He's an incredible wrestler, a great grappler, a natural but inexperienced bjj practitioner, and amazing mma athlete (maybe the best at his weight class) in my mind
When is part 2 for this? I am chomping at the bit over here!!! And I would also like to see a Khabib study. His cage wrestling mixed with Judo is sick and he also uses a control/ground and pound style like Askren just not as high level imho. No offense to Khabib cause he is one of my favorites.
man... that leg ride from top turtle looks like a good way to get knee bared though....
U have amazing VIDEOS. continue please
Please tell us you're going to do a Mcgregor vs Mayweather fight breakdown. 🙏🏻
This video was incredible. Is there a reason the 2 metas can't be mixed? I.e. someone that loves crucifixes and pins and gnp but takes the back like Maia does?
What the heck was Neil doing to Tyson? Like Random Event of the Year Award to this bit man.
Awesome video once again yo!!! A couple of questions is that vid of Niel Degrasse Tyson explaining one of his favorite pins (I know he wrestled)? Also although I respect the BJJ meta's effectiveness, I've always followed a meta close to Folk Wrestling due probably to the fact that I have a Judo background. I noticed this video featured Ben using an Iowa ride which I've found useful for Japanese Necktie setups could you maybe do a video on that position? Thank you for sharing your grappling genius sir!
thx, my upcoming vid will show a very clever use of riding I've not seen in the typical MMA wrestler. all kinds of rides be going on in that one...
The claw ride, and wrist ride are great for both opening up sub opportunities, and advancing position from my experience.
nice breakdown, would i be right in saying it is a very similar strategy to randy couture's?
awesome video!