I can understand the draw of your mate's DKW split-single, and I'm sorry your carbonized setback kept you from your plans, but given the choice I'd much prefer being a fly on the wall of your shed, observing you methodically sorting out the problem and learning from it. You must know, I'm at an age now where a near 35 minute video is at the very limits of my patience and attention span, yet yours are so engaging and seem to fly by in the blink of an eye. I'm always disappointed when it's over so quickly. Thank you for letting us tag along.
Ah, the wonderful simplicity of old machines! So calming to work on compared to modern bikes that require half a day removing plastic before you can even see the engine, then require a computer to reset fault lights and service lights.😢
When I was a teenager my father brought 6 boxes of 'bits' a frame and 2 wheels of a Panther 650 sidecar motorcycle. He spent a couple of years building it back up. Phelan and Moore (the makers was about to close their factory in Heckmondwike, so we managed to get the few things he needed to finish the build)... happy memories...
As I write this Andy Tiernan has a little red bike just come up for sale. I,m looking for a project now that retirement has found me accompanied by a hiccup in health. The prospect of riding while imagining you narrating every detail mellifluously like the little reds exaust is a wicked temptation. Never underestimate the marvellous contribution your videos give to everyone who has the great fortune to find you. Kindest Regards Stuart Bell from ‘up North’ and thankyou
Thank you for your kind comments Stuart. These older machines may demand a little more attention but I find that the trouble is well repaid. P&M's Red Panthers were inexpensive in their time but certainly not cheap in respect of build quality.
It's a comfort to realize that in the days of yore, certain motorcycle engineers had the wise & prudent forethought to design environmentally friendly motors for the few that remain operating in this day & age. Just think how terribly dirty the skies of England would be if this smart, little engine was passing into the air all the carbon it was actually collecting! Perhaps, the master of this composition of video, motor-music and delightful words, might consider changing the name of this Panther from "Red"... to "Green".
I am older than than the Red Panther by a couple of years, but found this ride took me to old gone places, passing houses that I have lived in. Not a motorcyclist in my youth - just a scooter - and also pillion on my elder brothers Norton. Loved it!
These things happen and good to see everything turned out all right in the end. Once again most enjoyable,and informative especially the points cover repair. PS love the humour and timed delivery!!!
Hi i know and completely agree a strange noise is not what you want to hear ,and gets to the stage of hearing it more and more until you convince yourself is a problem ,and almost hoping for confirmation of a breakdown to confirm that there is a problem !years ago while racing a gold star at snetterton i heard a loud bang while the engine was pulling max reves 7800 on the 350cc pulled in the clutch and coasted to safety of the track .first look i noticed the porcelain had come off of my prized Lodge spark plug . next you pull back on the engine in the vaine hope you still have compression {faint hope } ! second real look there is a gap between cylinder and crank cases ! but worst head is in 3 pieces that could explain lack of compression !!! . sorry to ramble i guess others have been there too ? grate video as usual Jonathan keep them coming David Witt
Excellently simple and uncluttered rocker box, nothing that isn't essential is in there !.. The factory recommended de-coking intervals do seem very short for your Red Panther but it seems a relatively simple job and 'it is what it is' I suppose.. Much preferable to the expected damage of course ! - I clicked on the 'like' button but only to promote the channel, I always hate to see an engine in distress, but seeing the problem remedied in the same video goes some way towards making up for that !..
I would travel a good distance to see a DKW spilt single. Sad that you had the issue but your loss is our gain. Excellent production as ever. Regards the torque on ring or open spanner’s I found a heavy duty baggage scale or fishing scale to be efficacious, for low torques used on the inactive end of the spanner, or with a length of tube to increase effective leverage. Depending on space of course and with the mental juggling to correct for effective turning radius. I’m sure you’ve found this impractical but worth a mention (I hope).
The old pushrod engines are so simple to work on compared to the modern DOHC stuff with shims and camchain tensioners etc. Who needs all those revs anyway? Great use of JB Weld by the way, it's fantastic stuff, I wouldn't be without it. Great video and so relaxing listening to that old single purring away down almost empty byways!
As the new owner of a Red Panther that was rebuilt an unknown but not huge number of miles ago, this video was an invaluable find. If she dies exhibiting similar symptoms then I will have a superb reference work to make my first foray into her internals. Thank you for creating a well filmed, and detailed run through of the work, eruditely narrated too!
Thank you Ian. I hope you find the Red Panther as delightful as I have. This year I fulfilled a wish to ride it back to its birthplace in Yorkshire, the subject of a future video.
I am surprised at the decoking requirements and intervals, are the big panthers similar? Is it because these engines are a vintage design? I can't remember having to decoke 4 stroke car engines from the 70s onwards, unless an issue with burning oil. It was unfortunate that you didn't get to your friends, but I enjoyed your diagnosis and repairs a great deal, job well done. Always enjoy your videos and humour.
A couple of years ago I stripped my 1948 BSA A7 to check the sludge trap (which contained very little sludge) I have had the bike since 1995 and this was the first time I had stripped the engine but there was not much carbon build up. There was a slightly stiff right hand little end though, so that will need reaming. It is still in bits because I've been waiting until I visit UK to buy gaskets and piston rings.
Entertaining and informative as always Jonathan. It's intriguing to see how similar the construction of Little Red is to my M120. You problem makes me feel a bit less frustrated by my recent, carbon-stuck upper piston ring as I too had exceeded the recommended decarbonizing interval by quite a bit.
Great video, as always. I thought with modern low ash oils that carbon build-up would be less than this. Had I been JJ and having the head off I would have been tempted to lift the barrel off an have a look at the rings and feel the big end and mains, but JJ obviously has confidence in his ears to say no such work was necessary. And, as ever, he was proved right! GG
Ive only discovered your channel and your easy going ways. I enjoy your rides and all your narration. You have a David Attenborough vibe, if David Attenborough rode vintage motorcycles. :-) You did a great job with your repair. Thank you for giving me a smile for Sunday.
I think I may have just slid down a similar snake to the one you describe here. In my case, I had been cleaning the carburettor on my AJS Model 8 and was running the engine to make sure that the throttle was finally operating correctly after appearing not to be closing properly. I found that the twistgrip was indeed controlling rpm again and closed the throttle, not really expecting the engine to idle and I wasn't disappointed. It ran down to a standstill and there was no compression when I tried to restart it. I remembered this video and thought that I may be paying for a lot of short runs earlier in the year or it may be something more serious. I'll find out when I take the engine apart. Wish me luck!
A reasonable area of inquiry until the lid came off Neil. Just because I've never had a Panther decompressor jam a valve open I won't say it couldn't happen.
Another superb video. I would be interested to know what the average oil consumption of the engine was. That's quite a lot of carbon for modern fuel so can only assume it's due to oil consumption. Glad it all went together well.
Very engaging vid... I could almost smell the Wellseal. Like yourself I had one of those little Norton Navigators myself, nice little bike, but was prone to some pretty epic tank slappers on the slightest of provocations..
Such a shame that the smaller Nortons were not developed more, but if you look at the `bits and pieces` frame you can see why the handling was a little suspect.
somethings not quite right there - with modern oils and fuels this level of carbon shouldn't really happen. Does it use much oil? cheers - love the videos
I wonder: if you took out the plug at the garage and used the airline in the carb intake- with the bike in gear rocking to open the valves in turn ......it might have blown out the loose carbon enough to restore compression and get you a few miles.
I expect the advice on decarbonizing was written when fuel wasn't as good as it is today. Otherwise every car would have to be taken apart at 2000 to 3000 miles, which they aren't'. Happy trails.Ronn
Jonathan , I greatly enjoy your videos and have watched you use a pencil to boost a spark plug, and having just restored a Matchless WD G 3L which has proved to be very reluctant to start, remembering your dodge I tried it, No one was more surprised more than me, so can you please explain how this works ?.
Thank you for your enthusiasm for the channel Vaughan. Unfortunately I can't help you with the science behind plug-pencilling. The method was suggested to me many years ago and I think it has worked too often on reluctant bikes like your Matchless and my Panther to be a co-incidence. Pencil 'lead' is of course really carbon. Maybe the dust left on the plug points somehow enhances the spark. (or maybe it's really magic!)
I know it does not apply to this but I was reading a very old book about hobbies and it was talking about 2 strokes using 8 to 1 petroil ratio. I bet they needed regular decokes!
I can understand the draw of your mate's DKW split-single, and I'm sorry your carbonized setback kept you from your plans, but given the choice I'd much prefer being a fly on the wall of your shed, observing you methodically sorting out the problem and learning from it. You must know, I'm at an age now where a near 35 minute video is at the very limits of my patience and attention span, yet yours are so engaging and seem to fly by in the blink of an eye. I'm always disappointed when it's over so quickly. Thank you for letting us tag along.
Ah, the wonderful simplicity of old machines! So calming to work on compared to modern bikes that require half a day removing plastic before you can even see the engine, then require a computer to reset fault lights and service lights.😢
When I was a teenager my father brought 6 boxes of 'bits' a frame and 2 wheels of a Panther 650 sidecar motorcycle. He spent a couple of years building it back up. Phelan and Moore (the makers was about to close their factory in Heckmondwike, so we managed to get the few things he needed to finish the build)... happy memories...
As I write this Andy Tiernan has a little red bike just come up for sale. I,m looking for a project now that retirement has found me accompanied by a hiccup in health. The prospect of riding while imagining you narrating every detail mellifluously like the little reds exaust is a wicked temptation. Never underestimate the marvellous contribution your videos give to everyone who has the great fortune to find you. Kindest Regards Stuart Bell from ‘up North’ and thankyou
Thank you for your kind comments Stuart. These older machines may demand a little more attention but I find that the trouble is well repaid. P&M's Red Panthers were inexpensive in their time but certainly not cheap in respect of build quality.
Not really a breakdown, just a cry for maintenance, brilliant metaphors and perfect narration voice. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
Every expression of thanks here encourages me to keep making videos while I'm still able, or run out of ideas.
It's a comfort to realize that in the days of yore, certain motorcycle engineers had the wise & prudent forethought to design environmentally friendly motors for the few that remain operating in this day & age. Just think how terribly dirty the skies of England would be if this smart, little engine was passing into the air all the carbon it was actually collecting! Perhaps, the master of this composition of video, motor-music and delightful words, might consider changing the name of this Panther from "Red"... to "Green".
I am older than than the Red Panther by a couple of years, but found this ride took me to old gone places, passing houses that I have lived in. Not a motorcyclist in my youth - just a scooter - and also pillion on my elder brothers Norton. Loved it!
Like you said little red sounds lovely! Shame your trip failed. On the bright side a great video for us to watch. Thank you. I really like that bike😊
These things happen and good to see everything turned out all right in the end. Once again most enjoyable,and informative especially the points cover repair. PS love the humour and timed delivery!!!
Great video nice to see someone's patients that always leads to the best outcome, again great video
What a joy to be a speckled tater here. So now I shall subscribe in hoe of further joys. Thank you!
Hi i know and completely agree a strange noise is not what you want to hear ,and gets to the stage of hearing it more and more until you convince yourself is a problem ,and almost hoping for confirmation of a breakdown to confirm that there is a problem !years ago while racing a gold star at snetterton i heard a loud bang while the engine was pulling max reves 7800 on the 350cc pulled in the clutch and coasted to safety of the track .first look i noticed the porcelain had come off of my prized Lodge spark plug . next you pull back on the engine in the vaine hope you still have compression {faint hope } ! second real look there is a gap between cylinder and crank cases ! but worst head is in 3 pieces that could explain lack of compression !!! . sorry to ramble i guess others have been there too ? grate video as usual Jonathan keep them coming David Witt
Excellently simple and uncluttered rocker box, nothing that isn't essential is in there !.. The factory recommended de-coking intervals do seem very short for your Red Panther but it seems a relatively simple job and 'it is what it is' I suppose.. Much preferable to the expected damage of course ! - I clicked on the 'like' button but only to promote the channel, I always hate to see an engine in distress, but seeing the problem remedied in the same video goes some way towards making up for that !..
I would travel a good distance to see a DKW spilt single. Sad that you had the issue but your loss is our gain. Excellent production as ever. Regards the torque on ring or open spanner’s I found a heavy duty baggage scale or fishing scale to be efficacious, for low torques used on the inactive end of the spanner, or with a length of tube to increase effective leverage. Depending on space of course and with the mental juggling to correct for effective turning radius. I’m sure you’ve found this impractical but worth a mention (I hope).
The old pushrod engines are so simple to work on compared to the modern DOHC stuff with shims and camchain tensioners etc. Who needs all those revs anyway? Great use of JB Weld by the way, it's fantastic stuff, I wouldn't be without it. Great video and so relaxing listening to that old single purring away down almost empty byways!
Well done sir on posting such a very nice video. Little Red sounds like a proper motorcycle as in my youth. Marvelous little motorcycle.
As the new owner of a Red Panther that was rebuilt an unknown but not huge number of miles ago, this video was an invaluable find. If she dies exhibiting similar symptoms then I will have a superb reference work to make my first foray into her internals. Thank you for creating a well filmed, and detailed run through of the work, eruditely narrated too!
Thank you Ian. I hope you find the Red Panther as delightful as I have. This year I fulfilled a wish to ride it back to its birthplace in Yorkshire, the subject of a future video.
I am surprised at the decoking requirements and intervals, are the big panthers similar? Is it because these engines are a vintage design? I can't remember having to decoke 4 stroke car engines from the 70s onwards, unless an issue with burning oil. It was unfortunate that you didn't get to your friends, but I enjoyed your diagnosis and repairs a great deal, job well done. Always enjoy your videos and humour.
A couple of years ago I stripped my 1948 BSA A7 to check the sludge trap (which contained very little sludge) I have had the bike since 1995 and this was the first time I had stripped the engine but there was not much carbon build up. There was a slightly stiff right hand little end though, so that will need reaming. It is still in bits because I've been waiting until I visit UK to buy gaskets and piston rings.
Entertaining and informative as always Jonathan. It's intriguing to see how similar the construction of Little Red is to my M120. You problem makes me feel a bit less frustrated by my recent, carbon-stuck upper piston ring as I too had exceeded the recommended decarbonizing interval by quite a bit.
A wonderful bike, excellent vision and beautifully narrated . One of the best I have seen. Greetings from AUS.
Great video, as always. I thought with modern low ash oils that carbon build-up would be less than this. Had I been JJ and having the head off I would have been tempted to lift the barrel off an have a look at the rings and feel the big end and mains, but JJ obviously has confidence in his ears to say no such work was necessary. And, as ever, he was proved right! GG
People often run vintage engines on old fashioned monograde oil.
Ive only discovered your channel and your easy going ways. I enjoy your rides and all your narration. You have a David Attenborough vibe, if David Attenborough rode vintage motorcycles. :-) You did a great job with your repair. Thank you for giving me a smile for Sunday.
Tighten until it breaks and then, back it off, half a turn !!
Excellent advice David. One for the workshop wall.
I think I may have just slid down a similar snake to the one you describe here. In my case, I had been cleaning the carburettor on my AJS Model 8 and was running the engine to make sure that the throttle was finally operating correctly after appearing not to be closing properly. I found that the twistgrip was indeed controlling rpm again and closed the throttle, not really expecting the engine to idle and I wasn't disappointed. It ran down to a standstill and there was no compression when I tried to restart it. I remembered this video and thought that I may be paying for a lot of short runs earlier in the year or it may be something more serious. I'll find out when I take the engine apart. Wish me luck!
Bully! Nice job! Love JB weld lol Nobody seems to decarbonize modern bikes..................
It was very black in there.
Low compression, bad oil ring design, over rich mixture.
Excellent video, very enjoyable viewing, thanks for sharing.
I was thinking of a failed decompressor. Has it got one ? Yes, I asked the question before you took the lid off the can of worms....🤣
A reasonable area of inquiry until the lid came off Neil. Just because I've never had a Panther decompressor jam a valve open I won't say it couldn't happen.
Sorry about the breakdown but it did make a very enjoyable video looking forward to the next one
Another superb video. I would be interested to know what the average oil consumption of the engine was. That's quite a lot of carbon for modern fuel so can only assume it's due to oil consumption. Glad it all went together well.
Yes ,,, better than doing it myself ... I'd break the banjo bolt ,,, well done ... Thanks
Most enjoyable, how easy these older engines are to work on.
Very nicely done, Thank You
Excellent work Sir, but carbon is too much for 2900 miles
I like your advert for Murphy's Irish Stout.
Very engaging vid... I could almost smell the Wellseal. Like yourself I had one of those little Norton Navigators myself, nice little bike, but was prone to some pretty epic tank slappers on the slightest of provocations..
Such a shame that the smaller Nortons were not developed more, but if you look at the `bits and pieces` frame you can see why the handling was a little suspect.
somethings not quite right there - with modern oils and fuels this level of carbon shouldn't really happen. Does it use much oil? cheers - love the videos
I wondered if the bore had glazed and not bedded in properly.
I enjoyed this, thank you..
I wonder: if you took out the plug at the garage and used the airline in the carb intake- with the bike in gear rocking to open the valves in turn ......it might have blown out the loose carbon enough to restore compression and get you a few miles.
I expect the advice on decarbonizing was written when fuel wasn't as good as it is today. Otherwise every car would have to be taken apart at 2000 to 3000 miles, which they aren't'. Happy trails.Ronn
I would have checked the valve clearances before stripping it further.
Looks very black inside.
Mixture too rich ??
Looks like the choke is on.
But it's an antique, so I don't know.
Jonathan , I greatly enjoy your videos and have watched you use a pencil to boost a spark plug, and having just restored a Matchless WD G 3L which has proved to be very reluctant to start, remembering your dodge I tried it, No one was more surprised more than me, so can you please explain how this works ?.
Thank you for your enthusiasm for the channel Vaughan. Unfortunately I can't help you with the science behind plug-pencilling. The method was suggested to me many years ago and I think it has worked too often on reluctant bikes like your Matchless and my Panther to be a co-incidence. Pencil 'lead' is of course really carbon. Maybe the dust left on the plug points somehow enhances the spark. (or maybe it's really magic!)
nice job jj will redex hlep in the tank
I seen that you filled up with E 10 petrol, is that ok on an old bike
I was told by a old fellow that in pre war octain was adout 85 octain so unleaded was ok and my bikes run ok alloy head ar a diferent mater
Job done, 3000 miles between de coke l guess is right for this super engine
I know it does not apply to this but I was reading a very old book about hobbies and it was talking about 2 strokes using 8 to 1 petroil ratio. I bet they needed regular decokes!