Neanderthal: The First Artist
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- Visual art is thought by many to have emerged about 30,000 years ago from the minds and hands of our ancestor, homo sapiens. But a recent discovery in the Touraine region of France could shake these certainties. At the end of an unknown cave, La Roche Cotard, prehistorians have identified some surprising engravings. How old are these unusual drawings? Could they have been made by Neanderthal men?
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The dedication to knowledge these archeologists have is amazing. I have always been fascinated by cave art and prehistory and want to say thank you for the informative and entertaining documentary. It was great. I've watched it twice already!
That's amazing to hear!
@@magellantv i would like to see the artist's tools. Have you run across any footage of their implements? Thanks
The first musical instrument was a neanderthal flute, if music isnt art, what it is?!
Great point.
Language is first then other forms of abstraction also such as music and symbolic marking (art ).
I wonder if they were asked to “turn that garbage down!” as so many musicians hear today 😂. Proud to be a wee bit Neanderthal 😊
@@ricardonascimento9461 Could be the beginnings of counting, how many holes? 4 Why 4? Thumb don't count.
@@sebastianbache8862 4 holes, but its a flute's fragment, I dont know to much about detais, but search for Divje Babe flute or just Neanderthal flute.
Its like 35.000 b.C.
About counting, I belive its started before music/art, symbolic thought its necessary to can imagine in 3D to make tools for example.
So many comments. Blah blah. I've been an artist all my life. I wouldn't have been, I guess, in any other age before abstract art got going strong. Now I see that abstract art was alive and well about 50,000 years ago!! This makes me smile :)
It is claimed that Picasso made a very good comment about that after seeing the paintings is Lasceaux: "Since Lasceaux we have invented nothing".
We love this!
Any thinking human is an artist. Nothing special
@@mrodd3776 We agree with the first part of your statement but we'd argue that on the contrary, the capacity to create art in any way will always be special.
@@magellantvthat’s illogical. If every human is an artist, then indeed there is nothing special about art. Personally I don’t think every human is an artist and I do think that art is special. Not sure about these marks, though. If an animal sharpens its claws on a tree and leaves long scratches in the bark, is it an artist?
I’ve been hoping for a good documentary on this specific topic!! Thank you!!
You're welcome! We can't wait to hear what you thought of it.
Keep hoping, this is the dei version
@@user-io6pj8bz8h Don’t you have a red hat rally to attend with your fellow cult members? Missing the Diaper Don speak in front of his tens of fans inside an empty garage? Spare me. Nobody cares what you have to say. 😘
@@magellantv loved it. The idea of art being almost innate in human species kind of blows my mind lol
@@Andy_Babb Yes! What a wonderful thought.
The more I discover about our cousins, the more human they become. For 20 years I have believed proof of Neanderthal art would be found and it has. Thank you so much for this wonderful documentary!
We are so happy to hear that! You are very welcome ☺
Fantastic graphics, excellent narration, enthralling documentary!
Thank you so much for saying so!
Neanderthals also made the semi circles out of stalagmites in Bruniquel cave dated to 175kya, they burried their dead with objects, and made instruments. There's also the half million year old shell with zig zag lines etched in it that was made by Erectus.
More artistic than most modern art. That's for sure
Bold take.
@@magellantv not really bro. I saw a guy stack four boxes unevenly as his exhibit. That's art? Where's the skill in that? Yea it's subjective by nature but come on
You're a fool
I share your view.
@@Shinobi33 And then there's the guy who duct taped a banana on a wall and sold the um, artwork for $120,000.00🤣🤣🤣
The oldest known cave painting is a red hand stencil found in Maltravieso cave, Cáceres, Spain. It was created by a Neanderthal and has been dated using the uranium-thorium method to be older than 64,000 years. However, there's another remarkable discovery: a 35,400-year-old painting of a babirusa (pig-deer) in Leang Timpuseng cave on the Indonesian island of Sulawesi. This ancient artwork challenges our understanding of art's origins and human evolution, rivaling the earliest cave art in Spain and France.
Art and History should never be tought from a Eurocentric perspective, science related to this is universal.
You make such great, fascinating points!
Homosapians created some truly amazing cave art. What the Neanderthals produced illustrates the vast difference between Neanderthals and Homosapians.
Actually the Leang Timpuseng cave art was dated 10,000 years older and that dat has now been pushed back even further. The oldest storytelling figurative art is in Leang Karampuang which is dated at 51,000 years ago. It is special because it is depicting a story. They used new technology to come to the new dates and is less intrusive as previous methodes. This very might as well put the whole world on its head when used on other locations.
It doesn't challenge anything. You're taking literal singular isolated roughly dated examples and running a million miles with it.
60,000 years ago is roughly the time period that modern humans started to migrate around the world. The Aurignacian culture in Europe may not date as old as 60,000 years ago, but that doesn't mean small groups of modern humans wouldn't have influenced Neanderthals long before that. In fact, we know they did, because they interbred around 60,000 to 100,000 years ago.
Neanderthals were around for 300,000+ years, yet we find basically no evidence of widespread complex art from excavated Neanderthal sites before the time of modern human migration.
THEN YOU SHOULD NOT MAKE ANY NATIONALISM OUT OF IT, NEITHER FRANCE NOR SPAIN WERE CREATED SAME AS YOUR DISGRACEFUL LANGUAGE WITH NO NATIVE SPEAKERS ANYWHERE
Amazing information on a new dating technique, just mindblowing for someone to even create that.
I thought the examples of the wall art were beautiful because even though they may not be everyone's cuppa tea, they were the first creative forays into symbolism that may not have been practical but simply for the pleasure of doing something different.
Or maybe it was their version of a bored teenager stalling on chores. 😁
Yes, exactly! Studying these pieces and works of art are extremely important for so many reasons, one of which being to understand our ancestors and their use of time and way of thinking.
Sulawesi cave art is now dated over 51,000 years old.😮
That was a wonderful documentary! Well done and oh so interesting. We oh our Neanderthal brethren a lot.
We're so glad you liked it!
I never looked down on Neanderthal; the theory that Neanderthal was not so intelligent began with scientists.
Same! They didnt exist 300 plus thousand yrs if all they wanted to do was lug lug Lonna
That's the problem for Neanderthals, they were around for much longer than the homosapians and never advanced at all. They never advanced beyond being prey animals to hyenas.
Other than scientists, who else was studying them? Not all scientists looked at them as inferior. Pop culture at the time is what spread the idea that they were less than.
What is your definition of a scientist? Not sure I'd want to be treated by a 19th-century Dr compared to one trained now.
@@patricaomas8750
It has only been in last 8-10 years that Neanderthals were being accepted as highly intelligent, artsy. Prior to that, people in the field had them labeled as dimwitted. Look at artistic drawings of them….and you will see the bias
Wonderful documentary. Thank you.
You're welcome 🖤
Some lines in a wall and very few of them. Can’t be convinced to draw firm conclusions from that. Also, we tend to see “faces” everywhere, and the sliver of rock could have arrived there by natural processes of water movement, etc. This would also account for the small gravel packed in there. Likewise, even if the sliver of rock was inserted and wedged in by a Neanderthal, it could have been for any reason whatsoever. I’d live for this to be true, but I’ll await confirmation from other sites. 💕🐝💕
I also see ignorance and stupidity everywhere too.
They studied it and showed quite clearly it had been worked and wasnt naturally that shape, but okay.
I'm wondering not mention in the story, might the cave walls of limestone purpose be used to coat the skin in some form of body camoflage or by design symbolic body painting?
Bravo. Thank you for your diligence.
We appreciate this!
On the stone with the bone in it; listen, me, my mom, my dad, my brothers... We have no doubt that Neanderthals could make art for art's sake... What we're doubting is whether _this specifically_ is art, and if it is, if it's necessarily depicting a human face (my brother proposed it could be an owl face instead). Additionally, they would still need to consider whether this is really a face, or if the neanderthal(s) who made it were making something else, and it just so happens to look like a face in the same way that a power outlet looks like a face. (see Pareidolia)
And one other possibility is that it could be a functional tool that was designed with more of an artistic flair, similar to many tools throughout human history.
It doesn't compare to the art a homosapian 4 year old can make. I think they were incapable of more due to the wiring of the brain. This was the best they could do.
wow... That's a really stupid point of view
Agree, interesting hypothesis.
I saw a cat, so it may have been a depiction of a predator. That's the fun thing about art, interpretation. 😉
These are great questions to ask and definitely an important perspective to have 👏
We also love that your family watched this together.
bless the researchers that challenge the foundation
Love this comment 👏
I’ve been waiting for this
It does not look like a human face, but a cat or other animal. Why do they insist that it's a human face? and it's not a mask, it's a carved object. A mask is worn over the face.
@ 30:00 What a cool job!
So it's down to the old question: What is and what isn't art? There's plenty of artists today who some would say aren't doing art.
I think we would say it is terrible art
This is such an important question to ask.
Amazing, its great he took the chance of scrutiny over embarrassment
That was kinda exciting Thanks for the enjoyable video
We're happy to hear that you enjoyed it!
The Neanderthals had wood, bone, skins & fiber to work with too. We are fixated on the magnificent cave paintings but other materials that decay were probably first. Drawing where it's light would be easier to learn to draw, or appreciate what is created.
This is so true!
If you can make a flint tool and some clothes then there is obviously design and thought involved. I would say drawing on a wall seems simple and crude . Maybe they drew on wood or skin ? Why not ?
Hope you like your AI art, because once it stomps out the relevance of human artists and all of their history you're going to be seeing a LOT of it.
I used to think that too, but AI is much more expensive than they let on. And, we like to do it ourselves 🎉. Let AI clean the toilet so we have more time to create! ❤🎉😊
@@thesjkexperience I would be happy if you turn out to be right !
There is an inconsistency regarding how he found the mask.
He dug a meter down to find it but no other artifacts at all. The modern archeologists found large numbers of blades in the same location.
The mask : did he find it in the cave but was ashamed to say so after all that time?
And what a mask! That he kept it for himself all that time is unworthy.
It’s nice to know that a subspecies we actually mated with and had children by at least had the cognitive ability to doodle on a cave wall.
The OSL method doesn't make any sense. OSL measures the last time feldspar was exposed to continuous sunlight. They measured that time as 60,000 years ago. That says nothing about when the carvings were made. Firelight is not strong enough to substitute for continuous sunlight.
great videp I esp. liked the time dates of when the cave was first discovered and time lines of the discovery. What a process to document this sculpture. Thanks for this
We're so glad you enjoyed it!
It’s not art, not exactly. It’s an instruction manual on how to develop throwing sticks for hunting.
Idk. I mean if I pick up a book and in this book is drawings on how to make something. It's a illustration, an illustration is art work. And in books in contributing ppl, there is sometimes so and so did the art work. Or this artist did the drawings. Just because it isn't a Picasso, doesn't mean it's not art.
Of my 8 yr.old draws something it's art. Not very good art ( don't tell him that ) but art none the less. If I draw a stick man that is art, bad bad art but still art. Art is subjective though, what you see as art another sees as random lines joined and as nothing. But I will stand by-- any thing drawn, carved etc is art. A good one would be spray paint artists. Some see it as vandalism some see beautiful pictures. Is fancy writing art ? Some ppl get payed big money to write all fancy, and they are called artists. Yet they don't even draw pictures. A person that does taxidermy is considered a artist. Some wouldn't call them that. So as I said art is subjective.
Why don't archaeology teams ever include trained geologists? *That* would be a better check than a group of exclusively anthropologists and archaeologists who are trained to see everything in terms of anthropogenicity. That's not a knock on the anthropologists and archaeologists; it just has so much potential for the when-you're-a-hammer problem.
✌️👍 Gold documentary soldier..... I'll be looking out for more vids you post.. thank you..👍✌️
We're so glad to hear that!
Some of their animal depictions are the best I have seen....
Sara 🇬🇧 70 💕💕🙏🙏🙏💪
🖤
I didn't realize Jackson Pollock was that old!
So your telling me that cave bears did one panel and in the same cave there is a similar set of lines and they can say it wasn’t bears? I feel like they are allowing themselves to believe something that’s untrue. But hold on the squiggly line one has me leaning their way. Very intriguing
Project researcher Eske Willerslev joined William Brangham to discuss the discovery.
I'm sure I 'got', 'heard' that abstract stampede you showed...really!
Maybe the face sculpture was a warning that a bear lives in this cave.
Their art seems almost modern in style
Interesting perspective.
What type of bone was found in the “face”? I wonder if they are/were able to date it.
Fascinating, but there appears to be no sign of soot on the ceilings from torches that would be needed for the artist to see what they were doing. Does not seem to be addressed by the scientists
You raise a great concern.
When I first saw my cousins art I said one day you will famous
I find it hard to believe that humans have existed as we do today, just as intelligent, same physiology, for at least 300,000 years, yet we didn’t produce art until 30,000 years ago.
An intriguing thought indeed...
I loved this. I always thought that we couldn’t have been first. Neanderthal were around for so much time before we get going. Thousands of years!
Indeed!
In all that time, they didn't advance at all. Homosapians were a whole different breed.
They invented computers, too. I always thought we couldn't be first to do that, too.
Excellent. Thank you!
And thank you!
One thing. How was the cave interior illuminated without traces of carbon soot on the ceiling. Couldn't that be a source for dating, or would it not survive over time?
Great question!
Those images to me look like somebody trying to record something they saw after being on hallucinogens. Trying to make sense of it.
Hey what if this cave scrapings could be where they were sharp inning some thing
The bear, who had lived in this cave before our human ancestors took it over, left more than just his/her musk….it left inspiration.
Astonishingly, visually, I prefer the bear claw marks. The criss cross pattern made with deliberate force appear more striking.
Our ancestors, maybe bored out of their mind, or maybe taking on the bear’s spirit during a ritual, went on in imitation.
Art is part inspiration, part intuition and part imitation
But if the bear didn't intend to create art, then can you really call it that?
@@magellantv that’s why I called it ‘bear claw marks’ to highlight the animalistic unintentional nature of this pattern. Art is really only in the eye of the beholder, in this case. Our early ancestors MAY have viewed it as the visual representation of the spirit of the bear, worthy of imitating.
We, moderns, would never call it art, nor would we be filled with the same awe as our ancestors
@@yvonnesmith6152 We understand what you mean.
I may not understand what they are meaning when the say "figurative," but a portion of that looks to me like a map, or a representation of an area, probably around that cave .
Since Neanderthal came first - who's to say homo sapiens weren't inspired by what they saw in the caves
This is a great question to ask.
Yes, after creating art the Neanderthals sat around and discussed philosophy.
The carved stone with bone should have been handled with gloves to prevent contamination.
They were handling a cast, not the actual object.
This is how they sharpen their stone knifes .
They marked their spot in the cave so families would travel back for generations.
You think so?
This was a really good program but did you have to put so many adverts every 3 minutes?
I didn't come across any adverts throughout the 51+ minutes. Not even one. Pay the very reasonable subscription rate at RUclips and you will later acknowledge it is well worth it. I'm not rich but with some things, paying is the better way to go.
@@MatCendana
Ditto. These are people who pay $200 a month for cable which HAS commercials but won't pay a measley $12 per month for NO commercials, then complain that they can't watch for free a high quality program that cost a lot to produce. Waaahhhh 😢
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Thanks so much for posting
You're welcome. Thank you for watching!
Art is subjective.
Looking at this, it seems incomplete, like time has removed some of it. Wonder if they can xray it or something to see what can not be seen by the eye. That would be interesting.
Nice thinking!
I'd be fascinated to hear/ learn, what is known and in how much detail, about how they lit the areas where they were creating these images.
Great question!
Amazing
We think so, too.
Where are the pictures of dinosaurs? There was a scientist that took pictures
of Neanderthal drawings of dinosaurs.
They were the most amazing Artists! I love Chauvet Cave.
🖤
Have you people forgot about a group of people known as Cromagun?
It's so interesting how we're used to tying the idea of the artistic thought with the materials that were used. But what if art preceded that and we just didn't have the knowledge to use more durable materials?
Like is it that crazy to think of a Homo Heidelbergensis or a Homo Ergaster carving a motif on their wooden spear?
An intriguing perspective!
Did these artists have flash lights, did they look for traces of ash or soot on the ceiling?
This is very interesting, and I can't see why Neanderthals couldn't create art. After all, they are our closest relative. Of course, it won't be like ours, but how did we start in the beginning? 🤔
Exactly!
Imagine being the first early humans that thought aye up there is an image in that, you have to be an artist born to understand no matter your nowadays so called skill levels etc. I'm glad some of them found the cave & had time to carve/paint it because they could, i spent over 35 years finding out of the way places nobody goes in to paint walls as we can write letters now & do portraits.
Interesting!
@@magellantv Not really just a thought from a living creative person of our times that knows that urge to leave your mark. I have never seen cave art but i would sit there for hours looking given the chance.
@@user-gp1ne6wi3b We hope we all would.
Just makes you wonder what else is out there that hasn't been discovered.
Exactly! What a great way of looking at things.
The art of the ancient humans has hominids and humans that look like us on it. Take a peek at the photo realistic portrait on my avatar. We found an incredible site in North Carolina that isn’t talked about by our local or state government, but we’re almost 2000 strong now and making as much noise as possible ❤ 🗿👍
Looks like the same marks that sticks put on our 9:27 9:29 snow caves when we needed more headspace could have been just for more comfort to get a sand stone dip in the ceiling wore down who knows. Just looked familiar is all.
Were they? Or could have Homo naledi been the first artist?
why do you make contact w/the art it will destroy the configuration!
Did anyone tried to look at these with contemporary illumination? Just to see them as the artists saw it.
That's a great question to ask!
How reliable is the dating on this?
Highly unconvincing
Went back in time,they were on mushrooms.
These look like the kinds of "art" I did in kindergarten and first grade. People around me were drawing and coloring or painting people, and houses, and trees, and I did circles and ovals and flecks of paint, and dense wormy drawing with finger paint - in four colors, each to a quarter of the round tray. This was no "abstract art". This was people who couldn't do art yet. Somebody with time on his hands, or maybe hiding in the caves, doodled with his hands. Maybe someone was kept prisoner in the cave and had nothing else to do!
Honestly, though, I am not convinced. I'm a little less unconvinced than I was before watching this. There is specific information I've seen nowhere else. But there is no proof as to when homo sapiens reached Europe. They were once thought to have arrived in 65,000 BC, and then magically it was 45,000 BC or even later. I've learned to distrust this sort of thing. All that seems to have changed is academic fashion, and little intelligence ever goes into shifts in academic fashion. It's pure politics and snobbery. We simply don't know homo sapiens didn't do it. Though frankly the most convincing detail is the fact that this is preschool level doodling of an undeveloped brain, and homo sapiens were painting people and animals. Even the researchers above eventually admit that this isn't the "figurative" level of art that homo sapiens were doing.
You raise some great questions, that's for sure.
What a horrible ladder
This should have been a 15 minute video
How selfish to keep something that could be very important secret for 50 yrs so no one else can study it.
My thoughts exactly. A tremendous crime against science.
If it turns out to be significant he should be put in jail, at the very least certainly not in charge of the operation
Have you met our government ?
Wait, what happened to the dog?
They were not smooth skinned like humans. They were covered in hair.. and they still are..
Thank you so much for the video!! Another possible breakthrough in understanding our distant cousins and of prehistory. Wow!!! Observations: in the middle panel (?), it appeared that I was looking at...the entrance of a cave? A 3 dimensional representation? Wholly shit! Did I read that wrong?
The far right or 3rd panel struck me as being psychotropic in nature, like the visual patterns one might experience on some psychoactive chemical like psilocybin. It's really quite beautiful.
Thirdly, I wondered if this could be the remnants of some microbial growth, tube worm outlines, or such. Either way, fantastic work. Thanx again!!
You're welcome! We're so glad you enjoyed it so much.
The dog. Discoverd
It looks like mud applied to stoping dripping in the cave ?
The song of a whale. The bower of a lyrebird. Art has been around for a long,long time....
We love this way of thinking 🖤
Perhaps images of Aurora Borealis, or perhaps an attempt to mark the cave using the bear method as a means of defining territory. The face artifact may have been used by a shaman. These people didn’t have time to create art as they were living hand to mouth. They weren’t less intelligent rather focused on day to day survival activities.
That's possible!
Are our politicians Neanderthals? Because I just don't know what to make of them. Someone, please explain.
The oldest cave paintings are in Africa. They’re 80,000 years old.
Oh i bet the cave bear guy is right.
I was thinking out loud... What if they used walls to clean their hands and it left marks. it sounds stupid but in the woods if i dont have a rag to wipe something off my hands i use rocks or stone walls. or its just art
Now do one about the first 'Art Critic' !.... if you know, you know lol
This gave us a chuckle.
Just because no examples still exist doesn't mean it didn't happen. You won't think the first art would survive forever would you? I would think most art is always destroyed over time. Obviously there was a lot of art that existed, like a stick writing in the sand, that never survived before we have lasting examples.
You make a fantastic point.
14:32 Looks like that could be a map of the cave and/or the surrounding area.
An intriguing thought!
I think it's more about doing something other than just trying to survive. That's the idea.
This 👏
30,000 years of saved CAVE art. But you know many rock faces all over would have had charcoal drawings and graffiti.
And since they're out in the elements, they would have been washed and eroded away?
Sulawesi cave art was dated at least 45k yrs ago…
Very interesting.makes me wonder if Neanderthals were more early cousins not very different from homosapians