If Chloe has been doing this for almost 4 years, Marinette must either be unrealistically forgiving or extremely dumb for trusting Chloe with a miraculous after Malediktator.
People saying she didn’t love Luka as though there wasn’t entire episodes dedicated to Marinette’s feelings for Luka, and how upset she was due to not being able to date Luka due to being ladybug. She did love Luka, not as much as Adrian but she clearly liked him. Defending this by saying she didn’t love Luka as much as Adrien is not a good justification as she literally says she would never love a boy she didn’t know anything about, and she clearly loved Luka regardless of how much she loved Adrien.
@@nyannyan1521 well due her disscovie ammesia her meroies about things in the past might get worse even though she couldnt remmber it her meoy got worse around luka or she just saw luka and broke the rules
You can see that the story of this episode was not planned, if Marinete says with so much force that she doesn't want to get involved with anyone she doesn't know well and is friends with Chloe then it would have taken longer for her to fall in love with Adrien because she wouldn't have the courage to trust that he would be different, Kim and Marinete were together on several occasions and nothing ever happened, Socline never existed and the chronological order of the series was explained recently, and Marinete literally fell off the trampoline on the pool in the episode Mr Pigeon 72 and didn't seem scared at all even though it was very similar to the scene on the flashback.
@@AndrewJohn27485tell me you’re a blind fan of Mary Sue that would justify every flaw of this wrongly constructed kids show without telling me you’re a blind fan of Mary Sue
@@AndrewJohn27485 Marinette actually is too forgiving. Wait till the Season 5 finale and see💀💀💀💀💀💀hint: There's good in your heart, you can change I don't want to spoil the finale so this is all I'll say, just to lighten the arguement about this plot point between Chloe being a Villain and Marinette's stalker vibes
we need to talk about sabrina's role in the bullying too cuz she's been openly involved and horrible but gets a pass as she's been acting as a scared cat all along
Yeah despite insisting joining in chole's plan AND betraying her out of jealousy i'm rewarding her for exposing Lila because yeah Lila's is the stuff of nightmares and yeah I can't take it with the whole class except the two main characters worshipping Lila and marinette's "friends" doubting her anymore and yeah by the time she apologizes for what she did to marionette I will forgive her as she did do something to earn forgiveness
@@virnalassiter382 Marinette's "friends" are honestly the worst. They don't get talked about ENOUGH! I don't find Alya to be evil but nobody talks about how she was a MAJOR player in Marinette's obsession with Adrien and then when Marinette is actually right about Adrien needing help, Alya says "you can't be in control of his life"...please shut up 😐 but yeah, the plot is gonna demand we forgive them for believing Lila right? 🙄
Oh yeah that's what I keep telling everyone on how socline and Zoe are better best friends than alya because yeah some people like alya more than marionette just because she's more cheerful and murtie than her but when she gets on nerves she's more of a stan/stalker than her like smartypants said in his perfection review she seems to be moving in with marionette and yeah by the time Adrian realized his feelings for marionette she keeps on with trying to get her to date him and yeah she keeps encouraging her to stalk Adrian and yeah never give marionette space and yeah socline being better in that way she tried to convince marionette to not fall in love with strangers like yeah if she were in alya's shoes then maybe marionette would have someone to remind her not to fall in strangers and Zoe being better in that way unlike alya who can't keep her mouth shut especially in Adrian situations she's more focused on being marionette's friend/personal assistant and yeah instead of pushing marionette Into chances with Adrian she gives her advice and yeah thanks to her she's been talking to him properly sense adoration also she tried to expose chole as ladybug to everyone and yeah neither socline or Zoe would ever do it especially Zoe as unlike her sister she's keeping her identity a secret and if you watch Simon says unbelievable she's a tattle tail of telling her "best friend"'s parents that got her grounded socline and Zoe would never tell on her unless they were asked to and yes as everyone keeps saying alya's a bad friend whenever Lila trys to ruin marionette and even when she finds out that the person Lila claims as a friend is the number 1.lier hater she STILL isn't convinced that she could be lying and by the time marionette wants to save Adrian from not a girl with him but his abusive father she's just all you can't decide his life for him although it's good that they finally try to marionette to let Adrian go it's not good that they aren't trying to convince Adrian not to choose his friends I sure hope smartypants does a disscuion on alya being the worst best friend ever AND her "friends" from ms bustia's class except for Adrian are just the worst
Why aren't more people talking about socqueline? In the whole flashback sequence we NEVER see Marinette have her iconic pigtails. I was getting some major ladybug vibes from her too. She clearly puts herself in danger to protect others and she stands up for herself and Marinette. This begs the question, why wasn't she chosen to be ladybug? Maybe it's because she already possess all of ladybugs traits without the miraculous but dang, this girl should've atleast been handed one of the miraculous instead of HER LITERAL BULLY AND THE BULLY'S SIDEKICK. She seriously should have been first (or second) in line to being given the miraculous 🤦♀️
WHY DIDN'T LB EVER REACH OUT AND RECRIUT HER?! Not only is this girl a loyal friend with a good heart, but she ALSO KNOWS HOW TO FIGHT! WE NEED MORE FIGHTERS ON THE TEAM
I say Marinette should give Socqueline Tikki as a backup Ladybug now that Scarabella was compromised and we can technically have the og Ladybug in this show.
Socqueline honestly seems like a better ladybug. I feel like if she was Ladybug she probably would’ve given up the miraculous a couple of days or weeks after.
because it was not Socqueline who met Fu immediately and helped him, and Socqueline had already changed school . Maybe MArinette dd no even know where she lived
Idk man. The whole reason she gathers all the info she can on her crushes still doesn’t feel right. Even after this episode it still feels more stalker than cautious. Scenes like her sniffing Adrien’s pillow doesn’t help either.
That's the point, it doesn't justify it but explain it. It's good this episode exists because it's supposed to make Marinette realize what she did was wrong and tell us (the audience) that those things are wrong
Marinette is the most emotionally unstable character in the show and hasn't been Akumatized for more than two seconds but if Johny stubs his toe he gets Akumatized
Still doesn't beat KKira Yamato from Gundam Seed's plot armor, there is a reason people call him "Jesus" Yamato with all the miracles he pulls out of his ass
They really tried to say "You can't justify your bad actions with a terrible past" but then tried to justify Marinette's bad actions with a terrible past. I'm not even a Chloe stan but they really are putting even the protagonists flaws as her fault
They aren't trying to justify it. That's the exact point of the last scenes, showing how Marinette knows what she did was wrong now, and since she knows why she won't again
@@PDD555 The very fact she got this weird background for it is EXACTLY why it's justified. They could've just made her realize what she's doing is just....wrong but no they give her an excuse.
@@esayem7746 but she does realise that her obsessive and stalkerish behaviour is wrong tho, and after she gets over her trauma in this episode she stops. She stops obsessing over adriens schedule, and she stops being stalkerish. She even realises how much she overthinks and jumps to conclusions and she actively tries to put a stop to it tho Personally, I hated marinette’s character precisely because she was unnecessarily obsessive and like a stalker. The way she jumped to obviously stupid conclusions made my blood boil. I hated how she was like that for virtually no other reason than to be a quirky character. I’m kind of glad that they found a reason for her to be the way she is, and it puts sense into all her previous actions.
It was a good episode to explain Marinette’s personality but it’s not to justify her actions. I think it was a smart move for Marinette to forgive Kim so she can move on from her trauma. I just don’t like how Kim told in front of his girlfriend that he thinks Chloe is the most beautiful girl showing that he isn’t loyal. Surprise her & Kim are still friends
@@kirannkornat7761 We saw them dating before. I don't know, which episode it was, but she and Kim were in the swimming hall, she threw a box with a Ring into the water, Kim fished it out and was happy, when he opend it. So, yes. I would say, they are dating and going out. And also yes: Kim saying infront of his girlfriend, that Chloe is beautiful, mirrors his intellect. I mean, he only apologised, because his girlfriend wanted him to apologise
I disagree. I feel like it’s a more important message to teach people especially kids that you don’t need to forgive people to move on. If I were Marinette I would try to move on and trust people but I would never forgive Kim.
This episode feels like Thomas Astruc read every piece of criticism Miraculous was getting from Marinette and Chloe's behavior, and wrote a "flashback" episode to say, "ah yes, I see what people are saying, but here is a convient explanation that I just wrote that totally justifies everything".
I mean I kind of agree but at the same time we already knew right from the beginning how much of a bully Chloe was to Marinette, this is hardly new information. She has been tormenting her for years
It justifies NOTHING! Stalking is still an awful and creepy behavior. Secondly, she went in the pool with Adrien in Mr.Pidgeon 74, but there’s nothing that would indicate a traumatic experience, beyond general awkwardness at spying him.
I think they need to stop making cat noir commit attempted murder. There are better ways of showing he’s upset. He could’ve just kept beating the living daylight out of the villan until ladybug stops him and gets him hit
Its genuinely concerning how so many people think this episode explains Mari's behaviour. Sure, it explains why she can't confess and her stalking tendency on a lower degree, but it doesn't explain her sabotaging Adrien's schedule and when he hangs out with other girls, or breaking into his house bcs he held a guy only party, or kiss his wax statue And even more concerning how this episode further shows how much of a hypocrite thomas is. He dedicated his whole energy and time to make us hates Chloe, even saying she's irredeemable, while calling Gabe, a domestic terrorist and a well known abuser by the fandom, a sympathetic villain. Imagine calling a teenager irredeemable but an abuser as sympathetic villain. This dude needs to get back to reality, sheesh And also, Adrien is a massive hypocrite in this episode. He finally grows a spine to stand against Chloe after he learned what she did to Mari, but not for what she did to everyone else in front of his face? And he had the audacity to even worried for cataclysmed Monarch, a terrorist, but so willingly cataclysm his own friend I still have a long list to talk about, but these three are the main points
You are right that this episode doesn't justify her behavior. It was never meant to. The part where you mention Marinette sabotages other girls. I'll touch on that. Lila we won't even discuss because Marinette had PLENTY reason to hate her and be distrustful. That girl was lying from the jump and I'm not invested in defending her 😂 Now, about Kagami. Did Marinette attempt to sabotage Kagami? Yes. Was she right for that? No. But it's funny how the fandom conveniently leaves off the part where she realizes her error and chooses Adrien's happiness over herself because realistically, there is nothing going on between the two of them. Your second point about Astruc, I agree. Now Chloe was never a good person. That "redemption arc" was complete BS and Chloe stans made that up. Chloe was never promised a redemption but because of her 15 seconds of kindness..."OMG THIS IS IT, SHE'S FINALLY GOING TO CHANGE". If you'd like, send me all of Chloe's "kind" moments (except for the one where she's shielding Sabrina) and I'll tell you how each one of them connect to either Adrien (her childhood friend who threatened to abandon her), or Ladybug (her idol at the time). Your third point. Monarch was the first person Adrien "cataclymsed" (Gabriel did that to himself, come on 🙄) so of course, it comes as a shock. As S5 progresses, the attacks start to become more cruel and personal. Like in "Jubilation" where his feelings were deeply played with. That was the first time he almost willingly cataclysmed someone. His emotions throughout the season are becoming more unhinged. He almost cataclysmed Kim sue to him causing his now-girlfriend a trauma she'll now have to live with the rest of her life. A trauma that has personally affected their relationship and one that has haunted her for nearly a year due to dissociative amnesia and PTSD.
It kind of explains everything. Those are unhealthy coping mechanisms, and the good thing about this episode is that they made her realize what she was doing was wrong and why she was doing it. Second, it's really hypocrite to tell someone to get back into reality when you are being hateful to a real person for writing his characters they way he wants. As mentioned above, Chloe was never promised a real redemption but stans can't comprehend that. Gabriel wasn't promised one either, so I don't see your point. None of them seem to be redeemable, but that doesn't mean you can't be sympathetic towards them just like you are being with Chloe. You just misunderstood him. And yeah, a teenager can be irredeemable too. Lastly I agree but as mentioned above too, as the season progresses Adrien is getting more and more traumatized with everything happening. He has even considered making the wish for Natalie
@@kainightshade5033 Everything that Marinette has done to Adrien, down to the stalking behavior. Why did Marinette never do this to Luka? If Marinette refused to fall in love with any boys ever again. Why didn’t she stalk him? Because she knew that Luka was a good person but how come this NEVER applied to Adrien? Therefore this is just Marinette being a hypocrite and the show excusing her bad behaviors instead of addressing them.
@@amymoon1295 Idk...maybe because....MARINETTE NEVER LOVED LUKA 💀💀 did she LIKE him, sure! But let's be real here, she wasn't feeling him like that. Her love was always with Adrien. Also, Luka and Kagami were purely created to be alternate love interests. Nothing more, nothing less. Luckily, my girl Kagami ended up getting more narrative purpose but Luka never did aside from being "friend therapist". Now, because she liked Luka and trusted him, that was all she needed to know which is why she took a chance on him with no obsession involved. He wasn't previously aligned with Chloe either. Adrien however was aligned with Chloe on a personal level. This is a problem. How can she fully trust a boy who's involved with Chloe and so deeply, dating back to childhood?! When did Adrienette develop and take off? After Queen banana when Adrien and Chloe break things off. When does she realize her obsessiveness with Adrien is a problem? Oh, probably when the world is about to go to shit because as she said "I don't really know Adrien"! Feel how you want about the S4 finale but the whole world being punished because of YOUR actions sounds pretty damn consequential. You're free to criticize the writing and narrative structure because granted, it sucks ass. But bashing the actual character and discounting her experiences because you hate the writers...eh....
@@kainightshade5033 Since your twisting my words, I’m going to explain this in a simple manner for you to understand. I don’t hate Marinette. I actually don’t hate anybody here in this situation. Why would I hate a fictional character instead of criticizing the writing of that character? because that’s exactly what I did in my previous comment. But you decided to take it that "I hate Marinette" when I don’t. I simply criticized her character writing and I have every right to as well. However I do believe that the creators of miraculous are very problematic and I have every right not to support them or this show in general.
I have several problems with this episode: - I get that they wanted to explain Marinette’s creepy stalker behavior, but one: they should’ve tried to explain it much sooner rather than waiting until _SEASON 5._ It’s way too little, way too late for me. And two: Even so, her past still doesn’t make her stalking justified or any less creepy. - If I’m being honest, they ended up making Kim look like not only an even bigger idiot than he already is, but a total dick. Why is Marinette still friends with him??? - Once again, this episode is just Astruc rubbing in how absolutely terrible and unredeemable Chloe is. Like, we get it dude, please put your hate boner away now.
Some people say this makes CN such a good boyfriend. Being very protective of his girl, and not messing around when someone hurts her. It’s valid for Cat to be mad at someone for hurting Mari, but to murder someone because they pranked your crush is crossing the line for me. Then again, the show loves to portray Cat as a psycho for some reason.
@@MGory828 I think it's more because of everything that has happened this season and this entire series. He's becoming really overprotective of those he loves, specially after knowing he can loose all his parental figures
Unpopular opinion: "Derision" is probably the worst MLB episode. I despise how in the same episode they try so hard to make Chloe look unredeemable, because having a bad past doesn't excuse a bad behaviour (which could make sense sometimes) and at the same time the ALL aim of this episode is a pathetic and offensive attempt to make us feel bad for Marinette and excuse her for YEARS of stalking. The "panic attack" was used in such a disrespectful way, a writers' tool to make Marinette seem such a good and hurt person, who she is not. The worst part is that this all idea is CLEARLY a retcon and they don't even try to hide it.
In the show, it's only been a few months. And they probably would've hinted at the bullying in season 1 if the writers knew the show would be as popular as it is now.
I mostly agree with you. I agree that this episode was made only to make Chloe fully irredeemable and to explain Marinette's stalking behavior. While I don't consider Marinette's panic attacks as forced, but still I'm pissed of on writers for this episode, because, once again, they lied to us. All this time we were never shown how severe Chloe's bullying was - all the time it was some petty name calling, with which Marinette was dealing very well (it was Lila who was able to make Marinette really upset, no Chloe). Also, all the time Marinette's creeps and stalking was shown as "comic relief", which should make us laugh, but no, now it is trauma! It turned out that all this time writers forced us to laugh on this girl tragedy.
While you are allowed to hate Marinette for whatever reasons, I will explain to you how you're completely wrong. Firstly, show production doesn't work that way. Writers can't just write shit in due to fan response. Not to mention S4 and 5 were in PRODUCTION while S3 was still airing. Production is NOT the same as scripting so the scripting happened before production. Basically, many years back where it would be IMPOSSIBLE to predict fan response. Besides, by this flawed logic, EVERYTHING, is so called "written in". Y'all really have to stop trying to pick and choose what's canon and what's not based on your feelings. Chloe's "redemption arc" was bullshit and never promised in the first place. Chloe stans took a few moments of her being kind and said "That's it, she's finally gonna change". Give me every "kind" moment Chloe had aside from protecting Sabrina from an akuma and I'll tell you how it was connected to either not wanting Adrien to abandon her or gaining the respect of ladybug who was her idol at the time. Chloe was never kind because she wanted to be. It was always "I'll do this if I can get that". Fake as hell. Now, I'll get to the part where I actually agree with you. "Having a traumatic past doesn't excuse bad behavior". YOU ARE CORRECT! Having a trauma is never meant to excuse inappropriate behavior BUT it is meant to EXPLAIN that behavior and how it came to be. In Marinette's case: The years of torture she endured at the hands of Chloe, the pool attack (cause that was a goddamn attack that could've KILLED HER), and the fact no adults in her life intervened. They either were passive and underestimated it (her parents) or participated in said bullying (school faculty). With all this combined, it's not hard to see how this kid went off the deep end. This is already a lot so if you'd like me to explain how "Dark Cupid" and "Mr. Pigeon 72" have nothing to do with her trauma, I'll explain it. If you want, I can also explain Marinette's "stalking" in legal terms. But only if you want. I've noticed some people don't like hearing counter arguments and would rather stick to their beliefs (be they right or wrong) in private.
"This explains perfectly why she is the way she is!" Origins pt 2 literally blasts this retcon into oblivion because all it took was for Adrien to give her an umbrella to fall for him. She was never suspicious of him, or distrustful of his actions after that episode lmaooo and she KNEW he was STILL friends with Chloe. When she gets called out for cheering on Chloe leaving Paris forever in Malediktator, you'd think she would've been like "you know what Adrien you have NO idea what she's put me through" but she didn't and even felt bad she looked like a jerk in front of him 💀💀💀 like this ep is the biggest fuck you to people who still had hope that Chloe could have redemption, it's so obviously done out of spite. Now they want us to believe that Marinette is this benevolent person who is so full of forgiveness. Marinette, the same person who made it her sole mission in Vulpina to out Lila as a liar, for no other reason than cus she was jealous of her. Like can the writers stop treating the viewers like they're stupid. Also Socqueline is responsible for her pigtails now ig, even though we've never heard of her until S5, and also Marinette is shown wearing them since she was a toddler in Wishmaker 😅
A different topic but I disagree when people say that Adrien gave Chloe so many chances to change. When to me, he didn't do nothing but gave her a promise that didn't do jack, when you guys didn't feel like friends in the first place.
It was heartbreaking to hear how scared Adrien is, in his relationship with Marinette. Especially, him being scared of losing her. He simply can't bear losing yet another person dear to him, in a very short time span. Not like he lost him mom Emily from one day to another and like he currently is losing Nathalie
Yeah and rose julka and mylene were brify good friends in this episode trying to tell marionette why chole is the way she is and NOT laughing at chole's pranks
I have to disagree with you. For me, I feel like this episode missed the mark. I get that they're trying to explain Marinettes stalking behaviour, but saying "Chloe bullied Marinette into a stalker" feels like a weird message to me. Especialy if Marinette isn't nearly as scared as she is in this flashback since the origins episode. Side note: I really want Alya and Soqueline to meet in the show. I feel like that could be a very interesting conversation between those 2 about Marinette in a scene like that
The writing is weird but funny enough it is actually kind of realistic,trauma caused her subconscious mind to do those things without seeing that it is weird,the subconscious mind is very powerful and gets programmed in moments of emotion,since marinette said she would do those things when she was sad and frustrated it caused her subconscious mind to do it.
@@millicentgordon5427 I'm not saying that it's unrealistic, I'm saying that I don't like it. I feel like they can come up with a better reason for Marinettes stalker behaviour then 'It's all Chloes fault'. I get that she is a terrible person, but we know that already from many other episodes. No need to have her being the cause for Marinettes stalking behaviour as well
@@jedemu yeah I agree,Thomas hates Chloe with a passion,I'm starting to believe he based her off of someone he hates for real as I came up with that theory a while ago and i started to see other people saying it so idk
@@millicentgordon5427 Thomas potentially basing Chloe off of someone he knew in real life has become a common speculation within the fandom. And it’s no surprise as to why many of us deduced it to that. There’s absolutely no reason why a Creator would hate his own Creation with this much passion unless he had to have based her off on somebody. Either way, dude is a total man-child.
@@ChocolateLoveKitten yeah i agree,he also shouldnt be arguing with his fans so much and thinking they are sexist when they used to complain about chat noir especially since it is likely that the people he is arguing with are girls
Funny enough Chloe mentions the cockroach prank back in sole crusher when she is talking to Zoe. She’s coming up with ideas sticking gum on her chair and getting her punished for something she did not do and putting roaches in her locker calling herself brilliant
@@ANIMATIONLOVERBTZoe was added to replace her, a way to tell the audience that u won't get a redeemed Chloe, but here's your very own Mary Sue version of Chloe, who infact is nothing like Chloe but is related to her. Lol And this episode is doing the same thing again.
I confess that I was scared when Cat Noir was hitting Dark Humor and saying that he deserved, if this wasn't a children's cartoon I don't even want to imagine what could have happened, the two would have left with trauma too 😓
@Cacau Massipan Oficial It’s been happening a lot more frequently now, It happened in Destruction (by accident), he almost cataclysmed Dark Owl and NOW Dark Humor. For some reason, I feel like this is forshadowing something really bad, REAL bad….
Can't wait what he'll get after Revolution & the final episode that piggy deserve more hate to make this bad morals the youngers although a little bit skeptical regarding there's so many saint stalkernette's stans🤡
@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDennisFan Uhh I get you hate him and I do too but he has a life outside of Twitter. He has family,even a little girl. If he wasn't such a manchild,he would be way more likeable.
I know marionette is upset was bullied and humiliated by someone she liked but girl that's no excuse to turn into a crazy obsessive stalker like I know it's probably a coping mechanism but it's still weird af 😭
@@minaashdio9373 she was getting over it already in season 4 , like in the umbrella scene , she literally insisted they walk home i don’t think she’d ever do that in season 1-3 . also in season 5 she also (tried to) get over him in general
This episode shows how much of a hypocrite Thomas Astruc is. They said that the absence of Chloe's mother doesn't excuse her behavior, and yet, the ENTIRE flashback was trying SO HARD to excuse and even justify Marinette's unhealthy obsession with Adrien. It's like Thomas said: "Oh no! They're hating my baby girl and loving Chloe! Lemme just make Chloe look as the worst of the worst and make my precious girl look as a poor, abused sweetheart. Surely they'll love my darling daughter and hate that evil witch." Unfortunately, a number of people accepted it as that and went: "Poor Mari! You deserve all the hugs! Darn you, Chloe! I hate you, you cruel monster!" Hmph 😑 This episode was trying to paint Marinette as this poor, innocent victim, but the only victims of this episode are Chloe and Kim. They're victims of bad writing. I hate it when Thomas tries so hard to make us love certain characters and hate certain characters. It just reeks of unprofessionalism because you have to be neutral when writing characters not biased.
Also it's really concerning you see all of this as a justification or trauma as someone excusing themselves. The point of the episode is an explanation and understanding both for the audience and Chloe, not a justification of what she did. Chloe was ALWAYS meant to be an irredeemable character and wasn't supposed to get a redemption in the story. There were writers who tried to change her but it wasn't supposed to go that way. Thomas Astruc doesn't even write all the episodes, but are so unhealthy obsessed that you can't separate real people from fictional characters. You're hating a real person because he didn't write his own character the way you wanted to. That's a big ego over there
Facts my guy. Chloe is one thing but Kim? Why did he write him to be such an asshole when Kim was a pretty sweet guy and was never like this in the show prior? They literally change his character to make the episode work
@@PDD555 You have a point, but I have to say that it did kinda felt like justification or at least damage control over Marinette’s character. Also, I’ve experienced trauma before, and this episode doesn’t sit right with me; I like how Marinette’s overthinking and obsessive nature is used as an unhealthy coping mechanism, but I don’t like that it was never seen as a negative thing. For one, she NEVER receives consequences for her stalking tendencies, and even worse, it’s used countless times as a joke in the show. If the moment really traumatised Marinette, using her unhealthy coping mechanisms as a joke and is never called out on it, feels like a bad message. And yes, she realises her mistake in the end of the episode, but it felt incredibly unearned, compared to her past actions in the later seasons, we never get to see her slowly realise what she is doing is wrong, she just suddenly changes her mind. Finally, it’s clear this moment was not planned. We see in many scenarios where Marinette and Kim are together, and there is nothing awkward between them, she even helps him ask out a girl, despite what he done to her. You can assume she forgave him, but this is the same girl who held a grudge towards Chloe, but still forgives Kim. The guy didn’t even apologise to her! Not to mention, it makes no sense why Marinette would immediately fall for Adrien, when he used to have a close relationship with Chloe, it should’ve taken her a bit longer before she could trust him. The timeline errors gets to me.
Watched this after watching your last MLB video and my opinion is that the writers are taking advantage of the fact most people accept that their writing is terrible and paper thin, but instead of trying to improve, they're using it as an excuse to continue to write terribly. Knowing that this was her before the series, how did Adrien tolerate her for so long? How did Adrien not realize that she was in fact, the worst person in school? Why did Marinette trust her with a miraculous? If Chloe's using her father as a shield against consequences for her bad behavior, why don't any of the teachers seem to think she's a brat? Why don't any of them even emote sympathy for Marinette? How the heck did she and Kim end up friends when he was dumb enough to go along with this cruel stunt and apparently, in the current time, is still too dumb to understand he was in the wrong and therefore had to be forced to give an empty apology? If Gab can read minds, why hasn't he figured out Marinette knows something or that's there more to her if her being a miraculous holder blocks him as this is the 2nd time he's tried to akumatised her? These are all questions that most viewers would have, but the show seemingly is banking on the fact its terrible, so while you ask these questions, you just accept that you're never get them. The only answer you're get is 'Because plot needed to happen.'
it is almost like everything that happend in that flash back was never planned prior to this episode also why did she have no issues with luka and had no issues with giving kim a miraculous
The ultimate retcon of all time. Just a way to tell all the Chloe fans that she's not getting reedemed and that we should leave Astruc's "master" writing alone.
@@Jai05 Yes it has, I am aware, but bare with me I'll try explaining. In origins it was in fact implayed that she bullied her, and through out the show we've seen Chloe do things such as theft, cheating etc. (Best examples being Dark Blade and Mr.Pigeon where she cheated by copying Mari and ordered Sabrina to steal Mari's things.) However it always came off as just teasing and shit talking, not straight up harassing, mental harassment and even KILLING ATEMPTS (Cause mari could have god damn drowned which is fucked up...) And then we have Kim. Through out the show, Mari has always been normal with Kim. And I know that Derision wasn't planned back in the days of season 1, so I guess I'll give Dark Cupid a pass. But then again, this just feels weird. Maybe this could work a little better in some later seasons, this way, in seasons 4 and 5 they could drop some hints and then it would make for sense. Not straight up making Kim a complete dickhead for the sake of one episode and then reverse him back to the pool jock he'll always be. Take my statements and do what you want with them, Idk if I'm even explaining this well, I'm too tired.
@@brodypl5804 The origins was the beginning of Marinette's change to standing up for herself. NOT the display of Chloe's bully attempts. In Season 1, I would call Chloe's attempts a "try hard" because the impact no longer affects the victim, ever since Alya got introduced. Across that, Chloe has mentioned multiple times before season 5 some of the things she used to do to Marinette before Marinette gained confidence, like how Marinette needed her permission to come to school, how she put cockroaches in Marinette's locker or how Marinette basically got bullied because she failed to play Sabrina's role in Chloe's life... Becoming an "underling". A term also used in Season 4. I wouldn't even count Season 1 because season 1 was a stage of miraculous where each episode was supposed to be something like Spongebob. Filler and Episodic... Until Season 2 started changing things, starting from Style Queen: Giving Chloe a REASON, just like they did with Marinette now, WITHOUT actually resolving their actions. Season 3 was the beginning of an era where they had a final plan for each character, as Season 5's writing got wrapped up (revealed in the leaks and the Season 5 bible). Chloe's official route was now changed to the bully who wants something but never got it, so became a worser bully... NOT someone who tried to change but got ignored. I repeat, Chloe wanted something, with changing being the requirement. But she never got that thing and was left to change alone, which in Chloe's mind would be like "Why does this changing thing matter if I didn't get what I want". The one thing I'll agree with is that the show does have sloppy writting. They don't explain things well or early on, leaving most fans to fill in the blank spaces. But thats the point. We need to fill in these spaces with open mind and from all perspectives, INCLUDING the perspective of the material presented rather than the AUs and fanfics read regardless of how it feels better than the show... Therefore counter-arguements will always exist. This is just my own take on this.
@@opase That "had to ask to go to school thing" was in season 5 though. For the cockroaches, wasn't she just telling Zoe that's what they could do? Or did she fr said she did that to Mari.
I know we are suppose to feel bad for Mari, and I honestly want to. Getting love confession pranked is definitely enough to make a tragic backstory, and sympathy for someone. Unfortunately, MP72, and all the times Mari was low key chill next to Kim and Sabrina prevents me from giving the stalker my sympathy
This episode may as well have been titled damage control. The quick, my mother abandoned me to reference seemed like a weak defense by Astruc. He claimed this was all planned right?
@@PDD555I mean maybe, but… her arc in season 2 was the most enjoyable and best written arc in the entire series IMO, so it was a pretty big let down for me
This episode feels like a unreservedly excused to let the chloe fanbase forever knowledge that chloe will never change, their ambition is to hurt her fanbase , all because Thomas Ass-truc is immature, egocentric and biased(w/characters) Thomas Astruc is the TRUE villain of the show
Ok why r y’all blaming the writer if a character was made to be that way it was just made like that, this is like blaming the writer for making a villain like its part of the mlb plot and to show Marinette’s growth and confidence,if you watched the s3 finale you would notice how awful Chloé acted. If you hate the way Chloé ended up being than oh well it’s already written in the story. (Also how is he immature for showing a character’s terrible past?????)
@@UrAverage_fingerNailclippin If you've actually seen the arguments people had with Thomas you'd know how immature he could be. He's so immature he'll block anyone who makes a better point then him, that's how immature he is. Not only did he ruin Chloe’s so called "redemption arc" but he's constantly rubbing it in the fanbases face that Chloe will never change, simply to hurt the Chloe fan base, on purpose, that's how immature he is.
Ironic how the same thing that caused pain also made Marinete develop her complexity, her plans don't work well for normal situations in her civilian life but as a super hero she can use this to figure out how to use the luckycharm and make strategies to win.
At this point I just don't have any mental capacity left for this show and the egocentric baby Asstruck. I don't care about it's development anymore and seriously don't care about the love square, reveals ectr. Enough is enough. The show is just broken and NEEDS TO END IMMEDIATELY. NO MORE SEASONS, JUST GET TO THE POINT. That's why I want to thank you, for being able to get through that trash on fire and still point out the ridiculousness of it, making a summary of where is the plot heading now. At this point you are the only MLB related content, that I regularly come back to and look forward to. Even when what you are saying is just frustrating... (About the show being weak as hell) So once again, thank you for your patience, work and dedication that you put in your videos.
DERISION ALIAS INCOHERENT SHIT I already put it here: Thomas Astruc: Marinette's obsessive behavior towards Adrien is a PERSONALITY TRAIT IN ITS OWN, just like her kindness, her generosity, her creativity, etc. also thomas astruc: marinette's obsessive behavior towards adrien is the result of a TRAUMA caused by Chloe BEFORE the beginning of the plot which also involves Kim and the swimming pools!!!! good where to start? Already Marinette went to the swimming pool THREE TIMES before DERISION once with her friends in gorizilla, once with black cat in gang of secrets, once with kagami in Mr pigeon 72 where they found guess who? Adrian! and when I think of this last case I feel like blood! marinette was at her WORST in this episode where it was clearly established that she projected her ENVI to be with adrien onto kagami humiliating herself, kagami and adrien without any shame or complex, she even argued with adrien in the pool but hey I guess she was so busy admiring it that she forgot to remember her TRAUMA! in simpleman alias the most meta episode of the series marinette herself declared that the reason why she complicated everything with adrien is that she was afraid that he would reject her which is a perfectly rational way of thinking! Why is this trauma only valid with Adrien? She managed to date luka without any problems! And cat noir ? and cat blanc we talk about? When you look at the interactions between Marinette and Chloe or between Marinette and Kim from the first ENTIRE four seasons, does it sound like interactions you would have with people who traumatized you???? yes origins has established that Chloe has bullied marinette in the past but within EVEN canon it has never been portrayed as having been so violent. in fact this past bully/victim relationship between them had NEVER been developed more than that, nothing, NADA, It was at most a forgettable detail. They have always been represented as rivals, even with an obvious antipathy between the two Marinette has never shown particular discomfort or resentment towards Chloé, and never has Chloé been shown an absolute desire to make her daily life a hell like what was returned to us on the screen in derision especially since she had the opportunity in the series several times but never did NOTHING! Let's be serious for a minute! NEVER a drop of clue was thrown into the story about this!!! why? It was not planned! it just happened!!! It comes out of NOWHERE!!! AT NO TIME was Marinette's stalking behavior presented INSIDE the story as an issue, either something funny or endearing to certain characters STRONGLY STATING that it proved she was MADE TO BE WITH ADRIEN !???? Example: kagami in Mr pigeon 72 which is also first in the list of too many episodes which make derision incoherent in addition to dislocoeur, white cat, animaestro, and so on and the best! The writers have spent the last 2 seasons making Marinette more and more pathetic with depression and panic attacks and now they're getting THAT TRAUMA out of their ass! I'm just backbiting at this point, there's no way I'm feeling bad for Marinette! It's just that bad! If you want to talk trauma broach the subject in a decent way, this storyline (and season 5 in general) just screams "have mercy on marinette, hate Chloe and above all ship the love square" I'm sorry, I don't come in not on this train, it's bogus! It's forced to death! Oh and also I forgot to mention ADRIEN. This boy has serious emotional issues and he needs to see an emergency psychologist and all the writers on that damned show who thinks he's trying to kill someone because he played a bad prank on your girlfriend there. has a pass and it's even scarier with its background (new york, scarabella, butterfly, dark owl)
It wasn't planned because the show was only meant to get one season before being extended to 5, and the broadcasters have no respect for the plot, so the writing only allowed them to make one of the episodes before it became popular. However, I do agree that certain aspects like Kim could've been hinted at way earlier. And I guess that the trauma she has is from going on dates with people she likes, so you have a point about the Luka side of things.
As someone with trauma, I honestly hope you NEVER go around someone with trauma or who needs help. Calling depression and panic attacks as being pathetic. Also, if you feel bad for Adrien for the same reason as Marinette, but you don't for her, that's giving me misogyny vibes
@@PDD555 Ah no I think you misunderstood me, at this stage ALL the characters are narratively very poorly written and objectively pathetic. neither is more sympathetic in my eyes than the other. how could I invest myself emotionally in things that make NO SENSE???? i'll say it again: marinette's uncontrolled fear of being with adrien came out of nowhere at the 11th hour in season 5 so i can't get into it since it doesn't make sense with what I've seen before, adrien's emotional loss of control on the other hand is presented to us from cat blanc but the problem with that is that the series NEVER recognizes it as the emotional disorder that it is, neither him nor his teammates which is not only wasted potential for character development but also very dangerous writing and i know what i'm talking about in that i have basically the same issues as adrien although my manifestations are less physical (screaming, crying , broken objects) but adrien has the power to literally kill people and isn't afraid to threaten to use it (although he has accidentally killed or nearly killed people on SEVERAL TIMES). This behavior should absolutely NOT be ROMANTICIZED in any way, hell we have the fucking professional celestial guardian of meditation techniques right there!!! WHAT IS SUHAN FOR Exactly apart from telling Marinette she's fucked up? so in summary marinette's trauma which is narratively incoherent is the one that is highlighted by the story while adrien's loss of control which is constant in the story is presented as the moments of "legitimate" anger of the hero in love uhh No ! This is unacceptable! nothing to do with misogyny! if you recognize Chloé's treatment for the bullshit you are an apologist for abuse if you say that zoé is a useless character you are homophobic it's fine to put labels on people's backs but if you don't count not counter argue your words are just empty! I support less and less that the series gives marinette and adrien the attributes of heroes and good people who are more and more undeserved, they are not inspiring characters and certainly not models to follow just the dolls of writers nothing moreover! Oh and about Marinette if I were to consider this cheap fanfiction as canon do you realize that would mean that Marinette was ready to subject a near stranger to the same kind of humiliation that she herself suffered for 4 years on NATIONAL TELEVISION CHANNEL in collaboration with HER BULLY all that for a guy she can't declare herself to because of the aforementioned bully no but WTF???? LOL!!!!!
“At this point, the fan base might aswell take over the show” Fanboy 1: ok so here’s the plan, we’re going to knock Thomas out with a baseball bat, put him in a case, put a sheet around, wrap it around with a thick cover, tie it with a rope, wrap it around with CHAINS, tie a huge rock to it, and dump it down to ocean, sound about great!👍
The episode wasn’t "bad" but I don’t think this episode should’ve been in SEASON 5. I don’t like that the writers are finally moving the plot along after seasons of uselessness. This episode of Marinette’s backstory should’ve been way earlier and properly fleshed out.
Obviously, the backstory from this episode wasn't something that was planned until - at the very least - the start of production on Season 4. People have already pointed out some of the inconsistencies and plot holes that this episode created, but I don't see many people talking about how Marinette had no issues dating _Luka._ She seemed very normal and comfortable around him, even though this episode was meant to tell us that Marinette would take precautions with ANYONE she falls in love with. Yet, what she described in the flashback only happened with Adrien. Unless I'm missing something, this is yet another one of those inconsistencies that the backstory created. I just haven't seen many people mention it, so I wanted to point it out.
Exactly. Where's Luka's schedule? Where's his presents for the next birthdays? Where's all pictures of him on the walls. If people dare to say that she wasn't sure she really loved him and had stronger love for Adrien. I'm gonna throw hands.
@@tikkidupaincheng3230 Uhm. Excuse me, ma'am, I don't know what you're talking about- wait a minute- **CHOKES** WAIT- **Checks channel** BUT THIS ISN'T- HOW DID YOU FIND ME-
@@yourlocalchloesimp Oh my! I actually didn't see you here! Hi my darling!!, me find you? oh no no no, it was fate and destiny.....they told me that you were still pissed about Derision-
"She doesn't have a lock on that thing" Funny thing, no one has a lock. It's either the writers forgot they need locks, or Damocles is using all the school's money for his Owl obsession and isn't getting anyone proper security.
I hate how the show in general, and this episode in particular, acts like the only impact of traumatic events worth acknowledging is how they affect your love life. Like how in Kwamis' Choice pt. 1 we had Marinette drowning in depression over the Monarch situation and the moment she mentions Adrien *as part of a larger crisis* the narrative and characters start acting like the only issue is her relationship with Adrien, to the point where as soon as she stops being Ladybug she's magically healed from her PTSD because she can get the boy now! Ugh. In this episode we learn that Marinette was bullied cruelly and relentlessly, her problems overlooked by the teachers and principal, and publicly humiliated by her crush at the time, and all of this happened at the end of the previous school year, so like 3-4 months before S1 starts? I'd expect Marinette (and her girl friends!) to hate Kim, to always go to the bathroom/toilet room with a friend in case Chloe set something nasty for her, and to distrust her teachers and try to take care of things herself without involving them because clearly they're of no use, but what happens? She says she'll prepare better for any future crush, and that's IT!? Fuck, this series isn't even a good brain rot
Soquiline is the best girl, is all I can say. But honestly, Kim looks worse to me in this scenario than Chloe - she is a spoiled rich girl with severe family issues and no adult around who'd both set boundaries but also be there for her; and Kim seems to just do it for the "fun" of it. Also, why would Marinette EVER give a love advice to him in Dark Cupid after that little "prank", especially since we were shown just how much it still affects her? And another thing: many teenagers can be stalker-ish when it comes to their crushes! Marinette didn't have to have a sympathetic reason for it - she is a messy teen, and in teenhood we often do things we come to see as wrong later in life.
The morals in this episode are completely messed up. Instead of retconning Chloe’s characters to show us that Marinette is too good for this world and that’s why she’s a stalker, they should’ve simply made her face the consequences for her toxic behavior IN THE PRESENT TIMELINE!
Some people in the fandom really think this backstory is good 💀 i swear to god some of them would defend anything. You ought to know by now how much of a manchild Thomas Asstruck is and how this was most definitely made because he was annoyed that the fandom rightfully pointed out at Mari's problematic and stalkerish behavior. Also there is nothing that makes me angrier than secondary characters being completely butchered in favor of the main character.. I can understand Chloe since she has always been a bully, but Kim didn't deserve that. He was always kind of a douche but not to this extent. Also, Marinette was never shown having any issues with Kim before Derision so i really don't get any of this. It's stupid and confusing.
Was the execution of this backstory good? No. I could've done way better and I'm not a writer 😂 but the backstory itself? The psychology behind it? Pretty flawless actually. This episode was never meant to justify Marinette's behavior, seriously, where are y'all getting that from, it's being thrown around like fucking confetti 💀 Trauma is hardly ever a justification for terrible behavior, it just shows where it comes from and how it manifests into a person's rationale. The way her trauma from a near-death experience manifested wasn't healthy or acceptable in the slightest. Nobody is saying that it was. All we are saying is that it makes sense! If your crush teams up with your longtime abuser and almost drowns you in the process, you'd probably be pretty obsessive about knowing EVERYTHING about the next guy and have trust issues which she definitely had. It was only when Adrien reciprocated her feelings that things started to turn around. That's when she began to panic. That's when her past trauma rears its ugly head. Up to then, it was just stupid silly Marinette dreaming of something that will never happen because it was just a dream for "the likes of her" (way of thinking of bullied people). But when Adrien started reciprocating her feelings, suddenly she was on the spot. It became realistic. A problem. And that's when her repressed trauma reared it head.
@@kainightshade5033 Ok but that does not explain why they needed to ruin Kim's character to explain the reason behind her behavior, or WHY she acts completely normal around him and even lets him use the monkey miraculous despite him being the center of her trauma. After knowing that Chloe tormented her *THIS* badly in the past i'm surprised she even considered giving *her* the bee miraculous back, she is *ridicolously* forgiving for it.. to a stupid extent.
@@MartinaAlbano-cx3kc Honestly, I don't get the hate Kim is getting. It's clear that kid was dropped on his skull as an infant so I can't be too mad at him 😂 it's not like he'd have carried out the attack if Chloe hadn't spearheaded it in the first place. He's not smart enough and wouldn't have a reason. But he simps for Chloe so. The monkey miraculous Marinette didn't give it to him. Master Fu did. Of course she can't counter the master. Kim, Chloe, Sabrina, or the pool isn't the center of her trauma. She trauma centers around love ITSELF. Couple that with her dissociative amnesia...none of this came up before because she wasn't in love (true love) with Adrien. On a subconscious level, she didn't trust him. Think about it: When did Adrienette begin to progress? After Queen Banana. Why didn't Mari's trauma come up in Mr. Pigeon 72? Because she isn't afraid of the pool. Why does it come up in Derision? because Derision is the time when she's going on an official date with Adrien. She's expected to be vulnerable and open herself up! What happened the last time she did that? Well, there you have it...
Thomas needs to get help to deal with how he's let the girl he based Chloe on live rent free in his head for almost 35 years now. This is an estimate based on how Astruc was Mariette's age like 34 years ago
I really didn’t like this episode. It’s another attempt to try to convince us that Chloe is bad when they know that they ruined her character, the entire back story feeling likes after though, and while Marinetts reasoning for her obsession makes some thing make scenes like the schedule, it still doesn’t excuse plenty of the horrible stuff she’s done. This was a good concept that was handled very poorly. And I whould of been fine with the ep if they didn’t ruin Chloe’s character. The backstory could happen still and after Adrian confronts her about it, she takes the initiative to apologize to her, completing her character ark. But I guess we can’t have nice things
I've been loving this season for a bit, but these past two episodes have been such a letdown, especially this one. Migration was contrived as hell and wasted the cool idea of Luka knowing Ladybug and Chat Noir's identities. Like you said in that review, if Hawk Moth could sense Luka's distress and figure out the reason for it so quickly, then he'd known Marinette is Ladybug seasons ago. Derision, meanwhile, is such a mess. I appreciate them trying to give a reasoning for Marinette's stalker behavior, but it didn't work for me. The dialogue when she was crying in the bathroom was so forced and unnatural. Like, nobody talks like that. The author's hand was fully visible then. And also Socqueline really just listened to Marinette state that she will employ the most toxic and unhealthy coping mechanism to deal with her trauma, and just decided to not try to not even bother dissuading her from becoming a creepy stalker. This episode also just put such a shit stain on Ms. Mendeleiev, Principal Damocles and especially Kim, whose apology was so empty and forced at the end. Felt like a kid half-heatedly apologizing for breaking a vase after his parents made him do so. The entire episode just felt like one of those super angsty fanfics that go so overboard with torturing the main character that it makes everyone uncharacteristically mean to them for no reason. And Chloé... I can't even look at her anymore. Cuz, like, she's the PERFECT example of Flanderization. Season 1 Chloé wasn't that and Season 2 showed she could've been more than just a stereotypical bully. But now with every episode, her writing becomes worse and worse. It's especially jarring when it happens in an otherwise good episode, where everyone else is written well, and then Chloé busts in the scene and the scrip drops on the floor. Just leave her alone already! Stop giving her screentime! Give it to Lila, she's so starved for it, especially for how important she's supposed to be.
the only reason hawk moth knew is bc of luka . Gabriel just wondered why Luka was resisting so hard , then he said “you know the identities of lb and cat noir” and luka confirmed it by saying “I’ll never tell you” . everytime marinette got almost akumatized she never resisted it at all , she actually wanted it to happen every time
I like that the creators of the show noticed this very big problem with Marinette's character as came up with a way to explain why she does the things she does (stalking Adrien) and I have thought before 'what in the hall could have possibly happened to make her this obsessive? Did something happen with a previous partner or another loved one?' And now they've finally explained in a pretty good way, it's good enough I'll accept it and be happy with this explanation
This episode should’ve been an episode back in the first season or so, not way later on in the show. Also it’s very infuriating how retarded these adults are in this show. This episode also tries to justify Marinette’s stalking like it’s a positive thing
This was a polarizing episode, and for good reason: The sheer amount of retcons loaded into this mess just to have more anti-Chloe propaganda ended up making everyone look like shit. Now we have to contend with why Sabrina should get a miraculous at all when Socqueline has apparently been around the whole time?? And the optics of making Adrien so trigger happy with the Cataclysm when he was so busted up about Monarch getting it directly is more than a little wonk and very 'what the hell' hero territory. Gotta say though, it's hard to say who is coming off worse this season: Chloe or every adult in the damn school
The excuse of "oh hawkmoth knows I know their identity, I have to leave" is such a copout to get rid of Luka cause they don't know what to do with him. Allya knows but nooo she is ladybug's secret confidant, we can't get rid of her! Dude he could have been there to help Adrien like Allya does with Marinette but nah!
And actually I've got to confess, It's actually the 3rd time Adrian told Chloe off, Telling her he'll never be her friend nor gonna put up with all her doings, I'm just confused.. Didn't he stopped the friendship in the "queen banana" episode already?..
Alright, who's the wet noodle who let Thomas back in the writers room? Seriously, while I wouldn't call this season good, it was improving in many areas. This, however, is some straight up season one bullsh*t. Chat Noir is a useless doof? Check Mary Sue style apologist writing for mariette? Check "ChloE iS IrreDeeMAble"? Check It's painful how obvious it is when they let Thomas have complete control of an episode. They are always the worst ones. Though I will say this, I liked mariette's flashback design. She looked like an actual teenager with her hair up like that. I wish they had changed her top too though, so it would have matched better with the blue pants.
I don't think that's gaslighting. Just incompetent writing and apparently, not knowing how to tell time because these kids LEGIT went on summer break! In my headcanon, these events take place over a year and I'm sticking to it 🥱 this is when I remember this show is written by old French dudes. Remove Thomas Astruc and 90% of this show's problem is solved! So glad his ass leaves after this season.
Marinette's stalking is actually quite plausible as a coping mechanism. It helps her feel safe enough to approach the idea of romance with someone who she knows used to be close friends with her bully, but also, like many coping mechanisms, it isn't healthy for her in the long run.
Yeah, but doesn't explain why she always sabotaging Adrien whenever he's hanging out with other girls, or breaking into his house, or kiss his wax statue
See that's all well and good, but it feels exceptionally off to me that all of her friends have been teasing her, and putting her in these incredibly compromising positions despite everything that's happened. And Maybe Marinette hasn't told them how she feels, but if alya knows she's ladybug she should at least know about this.
boy the writers really want to make chloe irredeemable its just sad - its complete character assassination and telling like at this point if hawk moth was around back then she definitely would've been akumatized and killed her, i see no way it wouldn't and even then why do they all act like seasons before she wasn't that bad, she's a memetic monster in this arc - can't even feel bad for her doormat friend who goes along with it, its all so poorly written you can tell this show needs a desperate rewrite of the entire plot to get it on track on characters, history, lore, and arcs they wanted cause this wasn't it also poorly explaining her over attitude to Adrien which cheapens it, quirky to trauma victim doesn't really work here cause its too explicit in how she words it (rather than an already clever girl she's just trauma'd to be better than anything)
I miss the days when Chloe was presented like she was going for a redemption ark later on. Now they just stick with mean and prissy Chloe and it really sucks. I honestly kinda liked her before.
I mean I appreciate how they tried to explain her behavior, but I do think that the degree of that traumatic experience doesn't make sense for how Marinette acts. If she was just very anxious and always second guessed herself and planned things a bit too much then sure, this episode gives a very reasonable explanation for that. But this doesn't explain her stalker tendencies. I feel like it would've been a better explanation, if we saw her try to confess to and maybe even date more than one dude. Also, have them be guys that the episode establishes are very good friends of hers, people that are all around just really good dudes who then go and do shit like what Kim did to her. That way, it'd make more sense for her to be as stalkerish as she is. It's not right yeah, but I wouldn't really blame a teenage girl for becoming a stalker after her trust had been broken soo many times by people who up until that point, were good people.
I don't believe you realize that this "prank" was an attack. A near death experience actually. When you look at the poorhouse, it has 3 levels. The pool is an Olympic pool and the average dives are about 40-50ft in height. Marinette was at the top board when she fell down IN A ALREADY DISTRESSED STATE! It only takes a few inches of water to drown. She plunged into the pool at least 3ft by my calculations (and she's lucky she didn't hit the bottom considering the velocity at which she was falling). MORE THAN ENOUGH TO DROWN not to mention, she was already panicked. Also, the angle at which she fell into the pool would have realistically left her with nerve damage at least, death at most. It was a near death experience inflicted on her by her ex-crush and her longtime bully. Some people might compare this to Mr. Pigeon 72 and ask "Why wasn't she scared then"? Because that's not how trauma works! Marinette developed Dissociative amnesia from the events of Derision. It takes a certain trigger to activate it. Mr. Pigeon 72 wasn't about facing love again. Derision was. And that's what triggered the trauma to return.
This was so bizarre, I was waiting for the revelation that it was all a dream sequence or hallucination, made up story, alternate timeline, anything. I am absolutely flabbergasted thst this is supposed to be canon, it makes no sense! I'm glad I grew bored of the show before this point.
Marinette is being akumatized more refequently now, but also finding a way to reject it from Ladybug, Elation, & Derision! I know this might not matter, but I see it as foreshadowing that there will be no one to save her when she DOES FULLY accept the akumatization and transform. I doubt she’ll be akumatized this season but hey, It’s a possibility.
Honestly this explanation is too little too late imo. It was very clear this was randomly thrown in there, if they wanted to explain her stalker tendencies it should have been sooner not 5 seasons later. Like who would stay friends or keep on good terms with a guy who humiliated you like that? The writers were so focused on keeping this show a float by stretching it out at long as possible that nothing happened that they have to throw in so much random plot now because the fans are fed up.
I’m still confused how Marinette would’ve ended up becoming the laughing stock if that video of her was posted. Like clearly people online would see it and be like “thats fucked up as shit” and then start harassing Kim over it
"This is why Alya is such a beast. She always stands up for her." [Enter Lila] Alya: What is wrong with you Marinette? Can't you see that Lila is so obviously exhausted from achieving World Peace and being Ladybug's BFF?
The inteir episode feels like Astruc talking to his critics who dont like Stalkernette similar to how Adrien fell in love with her during the infamous wax statue scene and attack Chloe fans with her past that contradicts the episode with Marinettes past excuse
I’m surprised that Monarch akumatized Kim but not Adrien Sure, Kim was annoyed but that was it Adrien was legit *furious*, clenching his fists and glaring at Kim so much so that he pummeled him into the ground and was willing to straight up slowly torture him with his Cataclysm once he became Chat Noir Then again, Gabe’s a total hypocrite that doesn’t akumatize his son despite all the other horrible stuff he does to him so I’m guessing he did felt Adrien’s anger but decided to go with the next best thing which was Kim There goes my Chat Blanc variant… 😒
Adrian doesn’t have an alliance ring. Gabe tried to set Adrian up with an alliance a few episodes before for a better akumatization. Gabe wants people with the alliance so that he can get a better villain
This episode really sucks. It's such an obvious, lame, and lazy attempt for the writers to justify Marinette's really creepy stalking and obsession with Adrien, and to justify not giving Chloe a redemption arc. This episode doesn't even make sense and doesn't fit in with the plot. In the beginning, the only bullying we saw Chloe do was just name calling, and Marinette handled it pretty well and stood up to her eventually, now suddenly the bullying was actually worse and Marinette has panic attacks because of it? It just doesn't make any sense.
I wouldn't say it tries to justify her stalkerish behaviour. More like explain it only. With that being said I agree with everything else you said. This was not good.
This episode was a little triggering for me because I've been bullied and my bully loved making my life miserable to the point I was happy to leave my middle school and learned later that Karma got her good in the end. And its sad to see that Marinette was confident in asking someone out to a date and have a go with the flow attitude at first. Only to be broken by Chloe and Kim for an extremely cruel prank that could've seriously hurt Marinette from the way she fell from the diving bord. Also, I love how ready Adrien was to cataclysm Kim boyfriend material right there. And if I was Adrien at the end of the episode I would've poured that glass of orange juice on Chloe's head to show how done I am with the friendship especially when you look at his facial expression he was beyond pissed and probably wanted to do and say more.
I feel like we should have had more episodes like this in earlier seasons where we see chole actually being truly awful. Especially since Thomas says she's irredeemable. It would have set up her character the way Thomas wants us to see her much better.
The reason Monarch wasn't instantly killed by Cataclysm might have been because of all the Miraculouses he was wearing. We don't know if Akumatized villains have the same resistance.
I was pretty glad that they brought this out in Kim, its actually a nod to his character way back in I think the first season, right down to the villain design. He's a complete douche, but at least its accurate to his character.
Okay. Many in the comments are fifty fifty over if this episode excuses Marinette's stalking or not. Aswell as that this episode makes Chloé really unredeemable. So let me say my thoughts. Sure, what Marinette is doing when falling in love with Adrien (gathering information about him) is explained why she does it. And I understand the episode that she want to be cautious about the crush so what happened with Kim doesn't happen again. But let's break this down. Knowing someone's schedule for the coming three years are a little too much. And even if Marinette is traumatized after what happened with Kim. It's still no excuse to do that. She could just hang out with her crush after school and slowly get to know them. And one thing people miss is Luka. She didn't find out everything about him. Where's his schedule? The gifts for his next birthdays? Pictures all over the walls? No, she doesn't do that because she already know he's a good guy? That's not how it should work with this episode's logic. She should have starting to stalk Luka too. But nope. So can her stalker behavior on Adrien still be explained by this episode? It still can but if you count in Luka, then no. Next up is Chloé. Oh Chloé how much crap you get. Sure the hints of her redemption came out of nowhere and should have been shown more in season one. But let's just say that what she did in the flashbacks one year back to Marinette. Where the hell did this come from? Cockroaches in her locker, paint on her seat, threatening her friends to stay away from her, and making Kim "prank" her with a box of spiders? What the hell. This is more extreme than the previous episodes and seasons. What did she do there? Made Alya get suspended for locking in her locker without permission? That's actually kinda understandable. I wouldn't like anyone look threw my stuff. Even for just taking a picture. Accusing everyone in her class of stealing her bracelet and getting Sabrina's dad fired? Once again, this is understandable. No one except Adrien knows about Plagg, so they can't ask him. So she's actually in the right thinking someone stole ot from her. Maybe making Sabrina's dad get fired wasn't as understandable but she wanned her bracelet back. Rejecting Kim and sending an embarrassing photo? Sure she could have skipped the photo. But breaking his heart because she doesn't feel the same? Wow so terrible. It's so horrible that she's honest about her feelings towards him. I mean really? This is normal, she could have used his love for her to her advantage, resulting in her playing with his feelings. The fact that she doesn't do that and just rejects him and embarrass him is then much better. Still could have gone without the picture. So the fact that the writers and mostly Thomas Asstruc decided "hey. Let's make Chloé a total overly mean bitch here." Like seriously. I know there's more in previous seasons and episodes where she did very terrible things. But here they make her look like the devil herself. In my conclusion. The writers is force feeding us with a reason for Marinette's stalker behavior and how Chloé is unredeemable. It doesn't work at all. If they wanned this episode to be more impactful. Then they should have showed us for shadowing in previous seasons and episodes. Like Marinette being a little nervous going to the pool in Mr pigeon 72, or maybe in dark Cupid when she hears about Kim confessing his love to Chloé that she hopes Chloé gets the same prank that she got. She might hear Zoe's story about the cockroaches in her locker and say that she knows how it feels. Showing her watching her seat closely before sitting down. Small hints and foreshadowing for this episode. That would be be great. Right now it feels like they just came up with this. And before anyone of you who disagree with me comment something. I don't care I'm just saying what I think. You can disagree with me how much you like. But I don't care.
seh didnt care about dating luka as much as she did with adrien she proably knows the schelde of her whole class and adrien schelde is reptive and easy to rember and its different cause this time she is going on a date with adrien and kim is there
Stalking is still stalking. It's still concerning and worrisome. Just because something happened in someone's past, that doesn't mean they should get the free pass card for their actions. The fact people are now like "oh, Mari did it as a way to cope with being humiliated? It's totally fine/relatable!" is actually very concerning. Many coping mechanisms aren't healthy, but people should be able to see this, admit to it, and strive to pull away of their own accord. What does Mari do in this episode? She blames it all on Chloe, which is basically her using Chloe as an excuse to justify her actions. And let's be real, if she and Adrien weren't a thing, she would still be stalking him. So I personally was not a fan of how the writing in this episode was done.
To me, this is the episode that "confirms" that they're soft rebooting the show and seasons 1, 2, and debatably 3 might as well no longer be canon save for key events like Marinette meeting Master Fu, introducing Luka and Kagami, Alya, Nino and Chloe getting a miraculous, and Chloe betraying Ladybug.
I question so much. I mean in the first seaosn they present us Kim as a bit mean but more of a goof. Then in seaosn two and three they go over to him just being a doofus but in a way lovable, and now this. I mean is he nice or is he an ass now?
it irritates me too much that even the writers keep trying to make us hate Chloe when more than hate I feel pity, pity in how he treats her like an irredeemable demon that can't be justified by her past, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO MARINETTE WE CAN JUSTIFY HER BAD ACTIONS WITH ADRIAN FOR SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED IN HER PAST THAT CAME OUT OF NOTHING, geniuses.
This, is a terrible episode. and nothing can change my mind kim is a horrible person, and going by miraculous world logic hat makes him irredemae period The flashback was a horrible retcon, it makes no sence in the current storyline. adrien leaving chloe makes no sence. chloe already dumped adrien. and finaly...oh chloe, why are the writers so against you? why are they bullying a child. chloe is one of those charecters who nees teh cliche disney villan redemton arc. and they are choosing to smash her into the ground until she is nothing
Remember back in the season 1 when Ivan almost punched Kim and then became the first person akumatised in the show? Yeah Kim was a bit of a bully early on and I had thought the show had forgotten. Not sure if it's better or worst now that particular part of his character is now semi-relevant...
I think the reason why Monarch couldn't discover ladybug's identity was because she wasn't thinking about it too much. Luka however, was strongly resisting and panicked not to reveal the secret. I also liked that we got the backstory of Marinette and how she became what she is. As for Chloe, yes she's the worst, but I can also really blame her father for not standing up to her. I mean, seriously, I have no idea how he even became the mayor if he's so corrupt.
This episode is insulting on so many levels. Not only Marinette’s trauma comes literally out of nowhere (no foreshadows, no hints, no hunches, none!), they try to justify her stalking tendencies. Only sociopaths and hypocrites would dare to come up with it. If they wanted to portray PTSD, then they made an awful job. I believe Korra did it better. Not only we got to see her traumas firsthand, and how she valued her avatar status as her self-worth, but everyone pointed out to her that, while what happened to her is genuinely messed up, it’s still not an excuse to wallow in self-pity, as even her biggest offender tells her she can blame him as much as she wants, but it won’t help her to heal. The point being, it’s true we don’t choose our traumas, but we do choose how to respond to them, therefore we are responsible for how we react to it
This episode also doesn't age well when you see Darkblade again. While the moment of Marinette dreading the thought of Chloe being mayor does hold a tiny bit of weight for the future as we know, but I'm lost again because it's also the same ep where Kim admits he was blackmailed to vote for Chloe or be told he's scared of spiders!? Ok that is a major plothole.
I do not know if I am wrong, but this episode proves that Adrien does not deserve the cat miraculous. He is too emotionally unstable, and he has the power to destroy anything. Think about it. In the darker owl episode when the principal made Marinette and Adrien believe they defeated Monarch and got to live a loving/ normal life with each other, Adrien snapped out of the illusion. He tried to kill the darker owl knowing that Monarch was manipulating him. In this episode, he tried to cause major damage to Kim. Yes, this was not Kim's finest moment, but if he can put up with Chole before snapping, this story should not bother him. He hears one bad story about Kim and wants to cataclysm him. It is not just Marinette with issues. It is Adrien. Hopefully, in the movie, they will not make him emotionally unstable. Those are my thoughts.
I respect your opinion, but I would say that Adrien does deserve the black cat, but MARINETTE doesn't deserve the Ladybug. Here's the reason why: 1) Adrien has a LOGICAL reason why he behaves this way and has a fleshed out backstory with an abusive parent. 2) He sacrificed his life MANY TIMES FOR LADYBUG, WHO CONTINUALLY MISTREATED HIM. 3) He misuses his powers MUCH LESS THAN LADYSHIT. 4) He's a great person and knows right from wrong. Without him Ladyshit would lose many times. 5) He's a sentimonster.
Adrien has less issues and it is well explained. So I respect it but don't agree at all. He is more and more stable and controls himself a lot especially considering all the abuse and he's a sentimonster.
Absolutely agreed. It might not even be a matter of "deserve" or not, but the miraculous isn't a right, it's a privilege and a very grave responsibility. If he's not ready to handle it, like we've seen many times, he isn't right for it. He has renounced Plagg like how many times now? Being a superhero is his literal job. People die if he doesn't, or if he does it wrong. No matter the whys or the hows, he's emotionally unstable, he should not be dealing with this. ADULTS SHOULD. Why Fu ever thought giving the miraculouses to a pair of fourteen year old kids is beyond me.
@@areldyperez8446 exactly man,Like C'mon,N it was shown that it wasn't rlly faith or bcz master fu is a genius at choosing,in fact, it's not even due to the Mlb characters's personality n the animal representation (for exemple,a 🐞 is luck n it's abt Marinette's "bad luck",Or a bee,which fits Chloe's persona as she is very bratty n represent "royalty" or even a black cat as Adrien since It basically foreshadows that his backstory is rlly sad) ,the episode kwamibuster pretty much kills the importance of every superhero characters in the show, So why didn't mr fu choose an actual wise person
By the way, the cataclysm doesn't not kill people. Gabriel survived because he was transformed, but Kim didn't have a miraculous. He for should would crumble to dust.
This episode manage to make me hate Kim, Sabrina and the adults of the series. (But especially Kim, like they killed Kim character, and he knows that Chloe is a terrible person after humillating him in dark cupid). Also even though this episode explain the stalking of Marinette, it doesn't justify that Marinette never learns that what she does is wrong, she got what she wants without needing to grow as a person. Also side note, Monarch just has access to the biggest emotion, and even though he can communicate via telepathy he can't read minds, all the times Marinette almost be akumatized her main concern is not the miraculous but the emotional problem she is facing, while Luka cares more about the wellbeing of others than him, so the identities problem would be his biggest concern
@@tsurbwobniar20 no, she knows that her aproach was bad cause it was a bad coping mechanism not because it was creepy and stalky. In emotion she enters uninvited to a party, knowing that Adrien's father always throw a fit when things don't happen in his way and Adrien is the one who pays for it, to tell him something that could wait to the next day. I am not saying that Marinette is a terrible person, but the sloppy writing make the character inconsistent
I read the scripts when they were leaked. This season is one major disappointment lol. Dropped this show who knows if S6 will be decent, now that Astruc is not on the writing team at all. Idk. Not excited
in other words, if you stalk people to deal with your problems that's ok, but if you bully people to deal with your problems your irredeemable. unless your an adult causing stress disorders across the entire city you need a hug and nothing else.
No. In other words, you can have flaws and make mistakes but you should try to change them. One girl is sweet at heart and even though she's made terrible mistakes, she, unlike the other girl, actually seeks to right her wrongs unlike the other who's a bitch just for the sake of being a bitch 😊.
@@kainightshade5033 I've seen alot of your comments. This is not a complete dig at Mari as a characters so much as the way they write her character. I can no longer see Chloe as a character only as a punching bag and as such any new info about her actions will always be attributed to the writers (in this case the creater especially) not wanting this character to have the fans or adoration she gets. It's like having fights fixed to show how 'great' a talent is in wrestling. Chloe doesn't change because she is not allowed to. You are talking about a 14 yo girl who is doing exactly what Mari encouraged her to do, double down on bad behavior to get the approval of her absentee mother, and for this I will never take the side of the so-called 'sweet at heart' writing given to this hypocritical protagonist. I can see how other can still adore this character but that will not change the anger that Chloe fans have toward the writers and creator for their lackluster and indulgent way of pushing the story forward at the expense of every character but Mari. She is feeling bad now but that is to get the audience primed for the level of good luck(plot armor) coming her way.
@@DazedContent Doesn't that seem weird though? Essentially, you just hate the main character for being the main character. We were told from the beginning Chloe was a bully who'd never have redemption. To me, it feels like a lot of Chloe stans are pressed because they deluded themselves into believing her "15 minutes of kindness" in S3 was enough for the redemption arc the main writer said wasn't happening. Not liking a main character is one thing. I watch plenty of shows where I hate the main character 😂 but this series has made it so obvious that Chloe wasn't a good person, isn't a good person, and will never be a nice person, that it seems...idk...kinda crazy to be pressed about it. Luckily, Astruc is leaving in S6 so perhaps the new writer will change things.
@@kainightshade5033 I guess being a Mari stand yourself you will defend the writing that will always have your character being right and at the top. The problems with the series go beyond just Chloe, its the way that the other characters cannot grow for fear that they could be better at something than Mari. The most accomplished person other than her is felix and we're not supposed to like him either. She is above everyone and is always right. Not even a fully trained guardian can tell her she's wrong. That's bad writing no matter how you look at it. Chloe's development may have been surface level but it was something to get attached and hope for a different path that got burned and buried. You don't need to agree. You hate this character and I don't like your's. The ridicule you spot will not change my opinion on how bad the writing have been. Astruc may be leaving but he made sure to push the story into a hole. There is little change they can do without contradicting his heavy handed writing other than retconing it which would anger people like you who agree with his direction of the story.
@@DazedContent I'm actually not a "stan" of any character because I find that within itself toxic. I look at the situation objectively. I also do not hate Chloe. I just see her for what she is. A self righteous, self entitled bitch. Now, is it possible for her to change? Absolutely. But for now, that's where she is in life and that's how I call it. Marinette on the other hand, while a flawed character, is good at the core. She has moments where she's a straight up bitch, but that's not her personality trait. She also recognizes her mistakes and rectifies her behavior when it's out of line. I have never seen Chloe do that throughout the entire run of the series even in her "good era". The direction of this story is Marinette and sometimes Adrien's POV which makes sense as they are...the main characters? If anything, they need to focus on giving Adrien more screentime in his own show 😂 what they do with side characters is just extra content. The only side characters I'm interested in seeing is Kagami and Felix.
The explaination for Marinette's stalking in this ep makes no real sense❗ Did anyone have the feeling she stalked because of past trauma with Kim?🤔 There were no hints earlier for that. She stalked Adrien because she was obsessed with him. She litteraly said that in season 1.
@@dangerbuffrocky That doesn't make it make more sense. Instead of excusing her behavior with this trauma, they could have let her agnowledge her mistakes and appologize. This was a bad attempt of explaining her behavior.
@@snooker7107 from s1 to s3 the rating of the show was intended for really young kids, so they couldn't show any heavy trauma. That's why from s4 onwards, when the show rating was higher, they started showing more mature things
Ending the stalking is a good thing. Marinette getting more back story is a good thing. How ever this episode just feels like the writers fighting with the audience and creating plot holes.
If Chloe has been doing this for almost 4 years, Marinette must either be unrealistically forgiving or extremely dumb for trusting Chloe with a miraculous after Malediktator.
It’s almost like they didn’t plan for this and they ruined Chloe’s character
@@jaredtheastralartist2510 yeah. I think the one starting with this was someone who has ass and truck in his name. But can't really say who.
@@joeljohansson3615 clever
@@joeljohansson3615 my god, you have to separate fiction from reality more often
And for trusting Kim as well.
If she wanted to “gather a boys info before liking him” then what the heck was Luka
she didnt care about dating him as much as she cared about dating adrien
She didnt love Luka as she loved Adrien
She loved Luka but not in a strong romantic way
People saying she didn’t love Luka as though there wasn’t entire episodes dedicated to Marinette’s feelings for Luka, and how upset she was due to not being able to date Luka due to being ladybug. She did love Luka, not as much as Adrian but she clearly liked him. Defending this by saying she didn’t love Luka as much as Adrien is not a good justification as she literally says she would never love a boy she didn’t know anything about, and she clearly loved Luka regardless of how much she loved Adrien.
@@nyannyan1521 well due her disscovie ammesia her meroies about things in the past might get worse even though she couldnt remmber it her meoy got worse around luka or she just saw luka and broke the rules
You can see that the story of this episode was not planned, if Marinete says with so much force that she doesn't want to get involved with anyone she doesn't know well and is friends with Chloe then it would have taken longer for her to fall in love with Adrien because she wouldn't have the courage to trust that he would be different, Kim and Marinete were together on several occasions and nothing ever happened, Socline never existed and the chronological order of the series was explained recently, and Marinete literally fell off the trampoline on the pool in the episode Mr Pigeon 72 and didn't seem scared at all even though it was very similar to the scene on the flashback.
It's honestly hilarious that she said she'll never fall in love with a boy, especially if he's related to Chloe, when Adrien here fits both category 😂
@@AndrewJohn27485tell me you’re a blind fan of Mary Sue that would justify every flaw of this wrongly constructed kids show without telling me you’re a blind fan of Mary Sue
It was just an excuse to explain marinette’s stalking habits and vilanize chloe for the worse
@@AndrewJohn27485 Marinette actually is too forgiving. Wait till the Season 5 finale and see💀💀💀💀💀💀hint: There's good in your heart, you can change
I don't want to spoil the finale so this is all I'll say, just to lighten the arguement about this plot point between Chloe being a Villain and Marinette's stalker vibes
@@opase I bet he will come back and that was all a lie, at least with what I saw since they said he would appear in the next few seasons.
we need to talk about sabrina's role in the bullying too cuz she's been openly involved and horrible but gets a pass as she's been acting as a scared cat all along
i think everyone already knew that so that’s why they don’t talk abt it . she just has no self respect for herself
The fact they'll actually try to "redeem" her 🙄
Yeah despite insisting joining in chole's plan AND betraying her out of jealousy i'm rewarding her for exposing Lila because yeah Lila's is the stuff of nightmares and yeah I can't take it with the whole class except the two main characters worshipping Lila and marinette's "friends" doubting her anymore and yeah by the time she apologizes for what she did to marionette I will forgive her as she did do something to earn forgiveness
@@virnalassiter382 Marinette's "friends" are honestly the worst. They don't get talked about ENOUGH! I don't find Alya to be evil but nobody talks about how she was a MAJOR player in Marinette's obsession with Adrien and then when Marinette is actually right about Adrien needing help, Alya says "you can't be in control of his life"...please shut up 😐 but yeah, the plot is gonna demand we forgive them for believing Lila right? 🙄
Oh yeah that's what I keep telling everyone on how socline and Zoe are better best friends than alya because yeah some people like alya more than marionette just because she's more cheerful and murtie than her but when she gets on nerves she's more of a stan/stalker than her like smartypants said in his perfection review she seems to be moving in with marionette and yeah by the time Adrian realized his feelings for marionette she keeps on with trying to get her to date him and yeah she keeps encouraging her to stalk Adrian and yeah never give marionette space and yeah socline being better in that way she tried to convince marionette to not fall in love with strangers like yeah if she were in alya's shoes then maybe marionette would have someone to remind her not to fall in strangers and Zoe being better in that way unlike alya who can't keep her mouth shut especially in Adrian situations she's more focused on being marionette's friend/personal assistant and yeah instead of pushing marionette Into chances with Adrian she gives her advice and yeah thanks to her she's been talking to him properly sense adoration also she tried to expose chole as ladybug to everyone and yeah neither socline or Zoe would ever do it especially Zoe as unlike her sister she's keeping her identity a secret and if you watch Simon says unbelievable she's a tattle tail of telling her "best friend"'s parents that got her grounded socline and Zoe would never tell on her unless they were asked to and yes as everyone keeps saying alya's a bad friend whenever Lila trys to ruin marionette and even when she finds out that the person Lila claims as a friend is the number 1.lier hater she STILL isn't convinced that she could be lying and by the time marionette wants to save Adrian from not a girl with him but his abusive father she's just all you can't decide his life for him although it's good that they finally try to marionette to let Adrian go it's not good that they aren't trying to convince Adrian not to choose his friends I sure hope smartypants does a disscuion on alya being the worst best friend ever AND her "friends" from ms bustia's class except for Adrian are just the worst
Why aren't more people talking about socqueline? In the whole flashback sequence we NEVER see Marinette have her iconic pigtails. I was getting some major ladybug vibes from her too. She clearly puts herself in danger to protect others and she stands up for herself and Marinette. This begs the question, why wasn't she chosen to be ladybug? Maybe it's because she already possess all of ladybugs traits without the miraculous but dang, this girl should've atleast been handed one of the miraculous instead of HER LITERAL BULLY AND THE BULLY'S SIDEKICK. She seriously should have been first (or second) in line to being given the miraculous 🤦♀️
WHY DIDN'T LB EVER REACH OUT AND RECRIUT HER?! Not only is this girl a loyal friend with a good heart, but she ALSO KNOWS HOW TO FIGHT! WE NEED MORE FIGHTERS ON THE TEAM
I say Marinette should give Socqueline Tikki as a backup Ladybug now that Scarabella was compromised and we can technically have the og Ladybug in this show.
Because that whole plotline got totally retconned
Socqueline honestly seems like a better ladybug. I feel like if she was Ladybug she probably would’ve given up the miraculous a couple of days or weeks after.
because it was not Socqueline who met Fu immediately and helped him, and Socqueline had already changed school . Maybe MArinette dd no even know where she lived
Idk man. The whole reason she gathers all the info she can on her crushes still doesn’t feel right. Even after this episode it still feels more stalker than cautious. Scenes like her sniffing Adrien’s pillow doesn’t help either.
That's the point
That's the point, it doesn't justify it but explain it. It's good this episode exists because it's supposed to make Marinette realize what she did was wrong and tell us (the audience) that those things are wrong
@@PDD555 it never told the audience it was wrong though
It actually makes sense though,its caused by drama so logic and good reason kind of gets ignored by our subconscious brain
It was Plagg's pillow...it's the little things 😅
marinette has the THICKEST plot armor i have ever seen
Having the entire world at stake for your problems sounds pretty damn consequential to me but what do I know? 😂
Marinette is the most emotionally unstable character in the show and hasn't been Akumatized for more than two seconds but if Johny stubs his toe he gets Akumatized
Still doesn't beat KKira Yamato from Gundam Seed's plot armor, there is a reason people call him "Jesus" Yamato with all the miracles he pulls out of his ass
@@Maxi-we3tk gotta love the writer's logic😂
They really tried to say "You can't justify your bad actions with a terrible past" but then tried to justify Marinette's bad actions with a terrible past. I'm not even a Chloe stan but they really are putting even the protagonists flaws as her fault
They aren't trying to justify it. That's the exact point of the last scenes, showing how Marinette knows what she did was wrong now, and since she knows why she won't again
The thing is, Chloe and Marinette are very different characters
explaintion
@@PDD555 The very fact she got this weird background for it is EXACTLY why it's justified. They could've just made her realize what she's doing is just....wrong but no they give her an excuse.
@@esayem7746 but she does realise that her obsessive and stalkerish behaviour is wrong tho, and after she gets over her trauma in this episode she stops. She stops obsessing over adriens schedule, and she stops being stalkerish. She even realises how much she overthinks and jumps to conclusions and she actively tries to put a stop to it tho
Personally, I hated marinette’s character precisely because she was unnecessarily obsessive and like a stalker. The way she jumped to obviously stupid conclusions made my blood boil. I hated how she was like that for virtually no other reason than to be a quirky character. I’m kind of glad that they found a reason for her to be the way she is, and it puts sense into all her previous actions.
It was a good episode to explain Marinette’s personality but it’s not to justify her actions. I think it was a smart move for Marinette to forgive Kim so she can move on from her trauma. I just don’t like how Kim told in front of his girlfriend that he thinks Chloe is the most beautiful girl showing that he isn’t loyal. Surprise her & Kim are still friends
Exactly. I agree with all of this 100%.
Is he even dating her?
@@kirannkornat7761 We saw them dating before. I don't know, which episode it was, but she and Kim were in the swimming hall, she threw a box with a Ring into the water, Kim fished it out and was happy, when he opend it. So, yes. I would say, they are dating and going out. And also yes: Kim saying infront of his girlfriend, that Chloe is beautiful, mirrors his intellect. I mean, he only apologised, because his girlfriend wanted him to apologise
I disagree. I feel like it’s a more important message to teach people especially kids that you don’t need to forgive people to move on. If I were Marinette I would try to move on and trust people but I would never forgive Kim.
Kim is pretty dumb so yeah
This episode feels like Thomas Astruc read every piece of criticism Miraculous was getting from Marinette and Chloe's behavior, and wrote a "flashback" episode to say, "ah yes, I see what people are saying, but here is a convient explanation that I just wrote that totally justifies everything".
I mean I kind of agree but at the same time we already knew right from the beginning how much of a bully Chloe was to Marinette, this is hardly new information. She has been tormenting her for years
Bingo, you hit the nail on the head
It justifies NOTHING! Stalking is still an awful and creepy behavior. Secondly, she went in the pool with Adrien in Mr.Pidgeon 74, but there’s nothing that would indicate a traumatic experience, beyond general awkwardness at spying him.
@@veronicapiccinini7956 She isn't afraid of the swimming pool itself, its being at that pool on a date with a guy she likes that triggered her
@@silverbrumbyfan I mean she also FELL strauight in the pool with Adrien,a guy SHE LIKES.
I think they need to stop making cat noir commit attempted murder. There are better ways of showing he’s upset. He could’ve just kept beating the living daylight out of the villan until ladybug stops him and gets him hit
Yeah totally agree
Its genuinely concerning how so many people think this episode explains Mari's behaviour. Sure, it explains why she can't confess and her stalking tendency on a lower degree, but it doesn't explain her sabotaging Adrien's schedule and when he hangs out with other girls, or breaking into his house bcs he held a guy only party, or kiss his wax statue
And even more concerning how this episode further shows how much of a hypocrite thomas is. He dedicated his whole energy and time to make us hates Chloe, even saying she's irredeemable, while calling Gabe, a domestic terrorist and a well known abuser by the fandom, a sympathetic villain. Imagine calling a teenager irredeemable but an abuser as sympathetic villain. This dude needs to get back to reality, sheesh
And also, Adrien is a massive hypocrite in this episode. He finally grows a spine to stand against Chloe after he learned what she did to Mari, but not for what she did to everyone else in front of his face? And he had the audacity to even worried for cataclysmed Monarch, a terrorist, but so willingly cataclysm his own friend
I still have a long list to talk about, but these three are the main points
You are right that this episode doesn't justify her behavior. It was never meant to. The part where you mention Marinette sabotages other girls. I'll touch on that. Lila we won't even discuss because Marinette had PLENTY reason to hate her and be distrustful. That girl was lying from the jump and I'm not invested in defending her 😂 Now, about Kagami. Did Marinette attempt to sabotage Kagami? Yes. Was she right for that? No. But it's funny how the fandom conveniently leaves off the part where she realizes her error and chooses Adrien's happiness over herself because realistically, there is nothing going on between the two of them.
Your second point about Astruc, I agree. Now Chloe was never a good person. That "redemption arc" was complete BS and Chloe stans made that up. Chloe was never promised a redemption but because of her 15 seconds of kindness..."OMG THIS IS IT, SHE'S FINALLY GOING TO CHANGE". If you'd like, send me all of Chloe's "kind" moments (except for the one where she's shielding Sabrina) and I'll tell you how each one of them connect to either Adrien (her childhood friend who threatened to abandon her), or Ladybug (her idol at the time).
Your third point. Monarch was the first person Adrien "cataclymsed" (Gabriel did that to himself, come on 🙄) so of course, it comes as a shock. As S5 progresses, the attacks start to become more cruel and personal. Like in "Jubilation" where his feelings were deeply played with. That was the first time he almost willingly cataclysmed someone. His emotions throughout the season are becoming more unhinged. He almost cataclysmed Kim sue to him causing his now-girlfriend a trauma she'll now have to live with the rest of her life. A trauma that has personally affected their relationship and one that has haunted her for nearly a year due to dissociative amnesia and PTSD.
It kind of explains everything. Those are unhealthy coping mechanisms, and the good thing about this episode is that they made her realize what she was doing was wrong and why she was doing it.
Second, it's really hypocrite to tell someone to get back into reality when you are being hateful to a real person for writing his characters they way he wants. As mentioned above, Chloe was never promised a real redemption but stans can't comprehend that. Gabriel wasn't promised one either, so I don't see your point. None of them seem to be redeemable, but that doesn't mean you can't be sympathetic towards them just like you are being with Chloe. You just misunderstood him. And yeah, a teenager can be irredeemable too.
Lastly I agree but as mentioned above too, as the season progresses Adrien is getting more and more traumatized with everything happening. He has even considered making the wish for Natalie
@@kainightshade5033 Everything that Marinette has done to Adrien, down to the stalking behavior. Why did Marinette never do this to Luka?
If Marinette refused to fall in love with any boys ever again. Why didn’t she stalk him? Because she knew that Luka was a good person but how come this NEVER applied to Adrien?
Therefore this is just Marinette being a hypocrite and the show excusing her bad behaviors instead of addressing them.
@@amymoon1295 Idk...maybe because....MARINETTE NEVER LOVED LUKA 💀💀 did she LIKE him, sure! But let's be real here, she wasn't feeling him like that. Her love was always with Adrien. Also, Luka and Kagami were purely created to be alternate love interests. Nothing more, nothing less. Luckily, my girl Kagami ended up getting more narrative purpose but Luka never did aside from being "friend therapist".
Now, because she liked Luka and trusted him, that was all she needed to know which is why she took a chance on him with no obsession involved. He wasn't previously aligned with Chloe either. Adrien however was aligned with Chloe on a personal level. This is a problem. How can she fully trust a boy who's involved with Chloe and so deeply, dating back to childhood?! When did Adrienette develop and take off? After Queen banana when Adrien and Chloe break things off. When does she realize her obsessiveness with Adrien is a problem? Oh, probably when the world is about to go to shit because as she said "I don't really know Adrien"! Feel how you want about the S4 finale but the whole world being punished because of YOUR actions sounds pretty damn consequential. You're free to criticize the writing and narrative structure because granted, it sucks ass. But bashing the actual character and discounting her experiences because you hate the writers...eh....
@@kainightshade5033 Since your twisting my words, I’m going to explain this in a simple manner for you to understand.
I don’t hate Marinette. I actually don’t hate anybody here in this situation. Why would I hate a fictional character instead of criticizing the writing of that character? because that’s exactly what I did in my previous comment. But you decided to take it that "I hate Marinette" when I don’t. I simply criticized her character writing and I have every right to as well.
However I do believe that the creators of miraculous are very problematic and I have every right not to support them or this show in general.
I have several problems with this episode:
- I get that they wanted to explain Marinette’s creepy stalker behavior, but one: they should’ve tried to explain it much sooner rather than waiting until _SEASON 5._ It’s way too little, way too late for me. And two: Even so, her past still doesn’t make her stalking justified or any less creepy.
- If I’m being honest, they ended up making Kim look like not only an even bigger idiot than he already is, but a total dick. Why is Marinette still friends with him???
- Once again, this episode is just Astruc rubbing in how absolutely terrible and unredeemable Chloe is. Like, we get it dude, please put your hate boner away now.
I seriously think Astrucs bullies are the cause of his insecurities and immaturity.
Hate boner 😂 I mean at this point Chloe is his favorite character from how much he adds about her
If this show could stop using Cat Noir's anger as a joke. I'd appreciate that!
Some people say this makes CN such a good boyfriend. Being very protective of his girl, and not messing around when someone hurts her. It’s valid for Cat to be mad at someone for hurting Mari, but to murder someone because they pranked your crush is crossing the line for me. Then again, the show loves to portray Cat as a psycho for some reason.
it's not a joke
@@MGory828 I'm so sick of them treating Cat Noir like a tool!
It's not a joke, if you laughed at him being angry that was you. Also since the s4 finale Chat Noir isn't a tool
@@MGory828 I think it's more because of everything that has happened this season and this entire series. He's becoming really overprotective of those he loves, specially after knowing he can loose all his parental figures
Unpopular opinion: "Derision" is probably the worst MLB episode. I despise how in the same episode they try so hard to make Chloe look unredeemable, because having a bad past doesn't excuse a bad behaviour (which could make sense sometimes) and at the same time the ALL aim of this episode is a pathetic and offensive attempt to make us feel bad for Marinette and excuse her for YEARS of stalking.
The "panic attack" was used in such a disrespectful way, a writers' tool to make Marinette seem such a good and hurt person, who she is not.
The worst part is that this all idea is CLEARLY a retcon and they don't even try to hide it.
Exactly!
In the show, it's only been a few months. And they probably would've hinted at the bullying in season 1 if the writers knew the show would be as popular as it is now.
I mostly agree with you. I agree that this episode was made only to make Chloe fully irredeemable and to explain Marinette's stalking behavior. While I don't consider Marinette's panic attacks as forced, but still I'm pissed of on writers for this episode, because, once again, they lied to us. All this time we were never shown how severe Chloe's bullying was - all the time it was some petty name calling, with which Marinette was dealing very well (it was Lila who was able to make Marinette really upset, no Chloe). Also, all the time Marinette's creeps and stalking was shown as "comic relief", which should make us laugh, but no, now it is trauma! It turned out that all this time writers forced us to laugh on this girl tragedy.
While you are allowed to hate Marinette for whatever reasons, I will explain to you how you're completely wrong. Firstly, show production doesn't work that way. Writers can't just write shit in due to fan response. Not to mention S4 and 5 were in PRODUCTION while S3 was still airing. Production is NOT the same as scripting so the scripting happened before production. Basically, many years back where it would be IMPOSSIBLE to predict fan response. Besides, by this flawed logic, EVERYTHING, is so called "written in". Y'all really have to stop trying to pick and choose what's canon and what's not based on your feelings.
Chloe's "redemption arc" was bullshit and never promised in the first place. Chloe stans took a few moments of her being kind and said "That's it, she's finally gonna change". Give me every "kind" moment Chloe had aside from protecting Sabrina from an akuma and I'll tell you how it was connected to either not wanting Adrien to abandon her or gaining the respect of ladybug who was her idol at the time. Chloe was never kind because she wanted to be. It was always "I'll do this if I can get that". Fake as hell.
Now, I'll get to the part where I actually agree with you. "Having a traumatic past doesn't excuse bad behavior". YOU ARE CORRECT! Having a trauma is never meant to excuse inappropriate behavior BUT it is meant to EXPLAIN that behavior and how it came to be. In Marinette's case: The years of torture she endured at the hands of Chloe, the pool attack (cause that was a goddamn attack that could've KILLED HER), and the fact no adults in her life intervened. They either were passive and underestimated it (her parents) or participated in said bullying (school faculty). With all this combined, it's not hard to see how this kid went off the deep end. This is already a lot so if you'd like me to explain how "Dark Cupid" and "Mr. Pigeon 72" have nothing to do with her trauma, I'll explain it. If you want, I can also explain Marinette's "stalking" in legal terms. But only if you want. I've noticed some people don't like hearing counter arguments and would rather stick to their beliefs (be they right or wrong) in private.
Not to mention they threw Kim under the bus too. It makes no sense for Marinette to be friendly with him after that
"This explains perfectly why she is the way she is!" Origins pt 2 literally blasts this retcon into oblivion because all it took was for Adrien to give her an umbrella to fall for him. She was never suspicious of him, or distrustful of his actions after that episode lmaooo and she KNEW he was STILL friends with Chloe.
When she gets called out for cheering on Chloe leaving Paris forever in Malediktator, you'd think she would've been like "you know what Adrien you have NO idea what she's put me through" but she didn't and even felt bad she looked like a jerk in front of him 💀💀💀 like this ep is the biggest fuck you to people who still had hope that Chloe could have redemption, it's so obviously done out of spite.
Now they want us to believe that Marinette is this benevolent person who is so full of forgiveness. Marinette, the same person who made it her sole mission in Vulpina to out Lila as a liar, for no other reason than cus she was jealous of her. Like can the writers stop treating the viewers like they're stupid.
Also Socqueline is responsible for her pigtails now ig, even though we've never heard of her until S5, and also Marinette is shown wearing them since she was a toddler in Wishmaker 😅
A different topic but
I disagree when people say that Adrien gave Chloe so many chances to change. When to me, he didn't do nothing but gave her a promise that didn't do jack, when you guys didn't feel like friends in the first place.
Now the "i have a crush on a girl and her name is Chloeee" makes so much more sence
Funny thing is, people ARE buying it... God, are they fr???
@@YellowMango12 Lol its ttue
They think we have the memory of a gold fish.
It was heartbreaking to hear how scared Adrien is, in his relationship with Marinette.
Especially, him being scared of losing her.
He simply can't bear losing yet another person dear to him, in a very short time span.
Not like he lost him mom Emily from one day to another and like he currently is losing Nathalie
Man I know right
Yeah and rose julka and mylene were brify good friends in this episode trying to tell marionette why chole is the way she is and NOT laughing at chole's pranks
@@virnalassiter382 I agree
I have to disagree with you. For me, I feel like this episode missed the mark. I get that they're trying to explain Marinettes stalking behaviour, but saying "Chloe bullied Marinette into a stalker" feels like a weird message to me. Especialy if Marinette isn't nearly as scared as she is in this flashback since the origins episode.
Side note: I really want Alya and Soqueline to meet in the show. I feel like that could be a very interesting conversation between those 2 about Marinette in a scene like that
The writing is weird but funny enough it is actually kind of realistic,trauma caused her subconscious mind to do those things without seeing that it is weird,the subconscious mind is very powerful and gets programmed in moments of emotion,since marinette said she would do those things when she was sad and frustrated it caused her subconscious mind to do it.
@@millicentgordon5427 I'm not saying that it's unrealistic, I'm saying that I don't like it.
I feel like they can come up with a better reason for Marinettes stalker behaviour then 'It's all Chloes fault'. I get that she is a terrible person, but we know that already from many other episodes. No need to have her being the cause for Marinettes stalking behaviour as well
@@jedemu yeah I agree,Thomas hates Chloe with a passion,I'm starting to believe he based her off of someone he hates for real as I came up with that theory a while ago and i started to see other people saying it so idk
@@millicentgordon5427 Thomas potentially basing Chloe off of someone he knew in real life has become a common speculation within the fandom. And it’s no surprise as to why many of us deduced it to that.
There’s absolutely no reason why a Creator would hate his own Creation with this much passion unless he had to have based her off on somebody.
Either way, dude is a total man-child.
@@ChocolateLoveKitten yeah i agree,he also shouldnt be arguing with his fans so much and thinking they are sexist when they used to complain about chat noir especially since it is likely that the people he is arguing with are girls
Funny enough Chloe mentions the cockroach prank back in sole crusher when she is talking to Zoe. She’s coming up with ideas sticking gum on her chair and getting her punished for something she did not do and putting roaches in her locker calling herself brilliant
Oh shoot your right!!!
Ah true! And see Zoe’s horrified face, she had found roaches in her closet
@@ANIMATIONLOVERBTZoe was added to replace her, a way to tell the audience that u won't get a redeemed Chloe, but here's your very own Mary Sue version of Chloe, who infact is nothing like Chloe but is related to her. Lol And this episode is doing the same thing again.
@@happilyevernever4289 we can criticize this Mary Sue, this does not mean Chloe REALLY UNDERSTOOD her faults and fixed them. People like these exist
I confess that I was scared when Cat Noir was hitting Dark Humor and saying that he deserved, if this wasn't a children's cartoon I don't even want to imagine what could have happened, the two would have left with trauma too 😓
If this was an adult hero show. Kim would probably be very bloody beaten. Or dead.
@Cacau Massipan Oficial It’s been happening a lot more frequently now, It happened in Destruction (by accident), he almost cataclysmed Dark Owl and NOW Dark Humor. For some reason, I feel like this is forshadowing something really bad, REAL bad….
@@Blou1372if chat noir ever kills someone with cataclysm it will be deserved
The funny thing is, Thomas Astruc attempt for the fans to hate Chloe, caused him to also get hate as well. he honestly deserved it 😂
Can't wait what he'll get after Revolution & the final episode that piggy deserve more hate to make this bad morals the youngers although a little bit skeptical regarding there's so many saint stalkernette's stans🤡
Facts! Can Thomas asstruc just disappear? No one would miss him.
@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDennisFan Uhh I get you hate him and I do too but he has a life outside of Twitter. He has family,even a little girl. If he wasn't such a manchild,he would be way more likeable.
@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDennisFan let's not say stupid shit like that. That man is not a cartoon but a person, no matter how dumb his writing may be.
Thomas Astruc is the real villain. Chloe deserves better And Mari deserves therapy.
Agree
I know marionette is upset was bullied and humiliated by someone she liked but girl that's no excuse to turn into a crazy obsessive stalker like I know it's probably a coping mechanism but it's still weird af 😭
there’s nothing they can say for it not to be weird lol . luckily she’s getting over the weird stalking
IKR
@@iiii12345 The only reason why she doesn't do that anymoew is because she dating him.
@@minaashdio9373 she was getting over it already in season 4 , like in the umbrella scene , she literally insisted they walk home i don’t think she’d ever do that in season 1-3 . also in season 5 she also (tried to) get over him in general
This episode shows how much of a hypocrite Thomas Astruc is. They said that the absence of Chloe's mother doesn't excuse her behavior, and yet, the ENTIRE flashback was trying SO HARD to excuse and even justify Marinette's unhealthy obsession with Adrien.
It's like Thomas said: "Oh no! They're hating my baby girl and loving Chloe! Lemme just make Chloe look as the worst of the worst and make my precious girl look as a poor, abused sweetheart. Surely they'll love my darling daughter and hate that evil witch." Unfortunately, a number of people accepted it as that and went: "Poor Mari! You deserve all the hugs! Darn you, Chloe! I hate you, you cruel monster!"
Hmph 😑 This episode was trying to paint Marinette as this poor, innocent victim, but the only victims of this episode are Chloe and Kim. They're victims of bad writing. I hate it when Thomas tries so hard to make us love certain characters and hate certain characters. It just reeks of unprofessionalism because you have to be neutral when writing characters not biased.
No. A character doesn't need to be written necessarily neutral... That's your own bias
Also it's really concerning you see all of this as a justification or trauma as someone excusing themselves. The point of the episode is an explanation and understanding both for the audience and Chloe, not a justification of what she did. Chloe was ALWAYS meant to be an irredeemable character and wasn't supposed to get a redemption in the story. There were writers who tried to change her but it wasn't supposed to go that way.
Thomas Astruc doesn't even write all the episodes, but are so unhealthy obsessed that you can't separate real people from fictional characters. You're hating a real person because he didn't write his own character the way you wanted to. That's a big ego over there
Facts my guy. Chloe is one thing but Kim? Why did he write him to be such an asshole when Kim was a pretty sweet guy and was never like this in the show prior? They literally change his character to make the episode work
@@PDD555 You have a point, but I have to say that it did kinda felt like justification or at least damage control over Marinette’s character. Also, I’ve experienced trauma before, and this episode doesn’t sit right with me;
I like how Marinette’s overthinking and obsessive nature is used as an unhealthy coping mechanism, but I don’t like that it was never seen as a negative thing. For one, she NEVER receives consequences for her stalking tendencies, and even worse, it’s used countless times as a joke in the show. If the moment really traumatised Marinette, using her unhealthy coping mechanisms as a joke and is never called out on it, feels like a bad message. And yes, she realises her mistake in the end of the episode, but it felt incredibly unearned, compared to her past actions in the later seasons, we never get to see her slowly realise what she is doing is wrong, she just suddenly changes her mind.
Finally, it’s clear this moment was not planned. We see in many scenarios where Marinette and Kim are together, and there is nothing awkward between them, she even helps him ask out a girl, despite what he done to her. You can assume she forgave him, but this is the same girl who held a grudge towards Chloe, but still forgives Kim. The guy didn’t even apologise to her! Not to mention, it makes no sense why Marinette would immediately fall for Adrien, when he used to have a close relationship with Chloe, it should’ve taken her a bit longer before she could trust him. The timeline errors gets to me.
@@vgngolley341 he’s still the same , he’s just dumb & genuinely thought it was a funny prank
Watched this after watching your last MLB video and my opinion is that the writers are taking advantage of the fact most people accept that their writing is terrible and paper thin, but instead of trying to improve, they're using it as an excuse to continue to write terribly.
Knowing that this was her before the series, how did Adrien tolerate her for so long? How did Adrien not realize that she was in fact, the worst person in school? Why did Marinette trust her with a miraculous? If Chloe's using her father as a shield against consequences for her bad behavior, why don't any of the teachers seem to think she's a brat? Why don't any of them even emote sympathy for Marinette? How the heck did she and Kim end up friends when he was dumb enough to go along with this cruel stunt and apparently, in the current time, is still too dumb to understand he was in the wrong and therefore had to be forced to give an empty apology? If Gab can read minds, why hasn't he figured out Marinette knows something or that's there more to her if her being a miraculous holder blocks him as this is the 2nd time he's tried to akumatised her?
These are all questions that most viewers would have, but the show seemingly is banking on the fact its terrible, so while you ask these questions, you just accept that you're never get them. The only answer you're get is 'Because plot needed to happen.'
it is almost like everything that happend in that flash back was never planned prior to this episode
also why did she have no issues with luka
and had no issues with giving kim a miraculous
The ultimate retcon of all time. Just a way to tell all the Chloe fans that she's not getting reedemed and that we should leave Astruc's "master" writing alone.
It was established in Origins that Chloe’s been bullying Marinette all her life. There was no retcon
@@Jai05 Exactly. And I think it's pretty clear looking back that Chloe never changed, even in season 2.
@@Jai05 Yes it has, I am aware, but bare with me I'll try explaining.
In origins it was in fact implayed that she bullied her, and through out the show we've seen Chloe do things such as theft, cheating etc. (Best examples being Dark Blade and Mr.Pigeon where she cheated by copying Mari and ordered Sabrina to steal Mari's things.) However it always came off as just teasing and shit talking, not straight up harassing, mental harassment and even KILLING ATEMPTS (Cause mari could have god damn drowned which is fucked up...)
And then we have Kim. Through out the show, Mari has always been normal with Kim. And I know that Derision wasn't planned back in the days of season 1, so I guess I'll give Dark Cupid a pass. But then again, this just feels weird. Maybe this could work a little better in some later seasons, this way, in seasons 4 and 5 they could drop some hints and then it would make for sense. Not straight up making Kim a complete dickhead for the sake of one episode and then reverse him back to the pool jock he'll always be.
Take my statements and do what you want with them, Idk if I'm even explaining this well, I'm too tired.
@@brodypl5804 The origins was the beginning of Marinette's change to standing up for herself. NOT the display of Chloe's bully attempts. In Season 1, I would call Chloe's attempts a "try hard" because the impact no longer affects the victim, ever since Alya got introduced.
Across that, Chloe has mentioned multiple times before season 5 some of the things she used to do to Marinette before Marinette gained confidence, like how Marinette needed her permission to come to school, how she put cockroaches in Marinette's locker or how Marinette basically got bullied because she failed to play Sabrina's role in Chloe's life... Becoming an "underling". A term also used in Season 4. I wouldn't even count Season 1 because season 1 was a stage of miraculous where each episode was supposed to be something like Spongebob. Filler and Episodic... Until Season 2 started changing things, starting from Style Queen: Giving Chloe a REASON, just like they did with Marinette now, WITHOUT actually resolving their actions. Season 3 was the beginning of an era where they had a final plan for each character, as Season 5's writing got wrapped up (revealed in the leaks and the Season 5 bible). Chloe's official route was now changed to the bully who wants something but never got it, so became a worser bully... NOT someone who tried to change but got ignored. I repeat, Chloe wanted something, with changing being the requirement. But she never got that thing and was left to change alone, which in Chloe's mind would be like "Why does this changing thing matter if I didn't get what I want".
The one thing I'll agree with is that the show does have sloppy writting. They don't explain things well or early on, leaving most fans to fill in the blank spaces. But thats the point. We need to fill in these spaces with open mind and from all perspectives, INCLUDING the perspective of the material presented rather than the AUs and fanfics read regardless of how it feels better than the show... Therefore counter-arguements will always exist. This is just my own take on this.
@@opase That "had to ask to go to school thing" was in season 5 though. For the cockroaches, wasn't she just telling Zoe that's what they could do? Or did she fr said she did that to Mari.
I know we are suppose to feel bad for Mari, and I honestly want to. Getting love confession pranked is definitely enough to make a tragic backstory, and sympathy for someone. Unfortunately, MP72, and all the times Mari was low key chill next to Kim and Sabrina prevents me from giving the stalker my sympathy
Don't forget puppeteer 2 and Cat Blanc! And the love confession she tried in the episode Felix!
@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDennisFan ohhhh, fair point. Yeah, Derision straight up stinks
@@MGory828 Like diarrhea stink or skunk spray stink?
@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDennisFan Diarrhea tbh
@@MGory828 Agreed.
I love how you notice the random details like the cereal and milk, makes me enjoy your reviews even more 😂
This episode may as well have been titled damage control. The quick, my mother abandoned me to reference seemed like a weak defense by Astruc. He claimed this was all planned right?
It was planned that her mother abandoned her, it was never planned that Chloe had a redemption
@@PDD555I mean maybe, but… her arc in season 2 was the most enjoyable and best written arc in the entire series IMO, so it was a pretty big let down for me
There was no redemption arc for Chloe. At all.
I probably would enjoy this episode more if it wasn’t such an obvious message from the writers to justify their choices
Yeah it's disgusting. They are such bad writers. 🤮
This episode feels like a unreservedly excused to let the chloe fanbase forever knowledge that chloe will never change, their ambition is to hurt her fanbase , all because Thomas Ass-truc is immature, egocentric and biased(w/characters)
Thomas Astruc is the TRUE villain of the show
Ok why r y’all blaming the writer if a character was made to be that way it was just made like that, this is like blaming the writer for making a villain like its part of the mlb plot and to show Marinette’s growth and confidence,if you watched the s3 finale you would notice how awful Chloé acted. If you hate the way Chloé ended up being than oh well it’s already written in the story. (Also how is he immature for showing a character’s terrible past?????)
@@UrAverage_fingerNailclippin i never said he’s immature because he showed Mari sues past
@@Mathivich then why did you call him immature
@@UrAverage_fingerNailclippin If you've actually seen the arguments people had with Thomas you'd know how immature he could be. He's so immature he'll block anyone who makes a better point then him, that's how immature he is. Not only did he ruin Chloe’s so called "redemption arc" but he's constantly rubbing it in the fanbases face that Chloe will never change, simply to hurt the Chloe fan base, on purpose, that's how immature he is.
@@Mathivich dang he has issues sorry for wasting your time
Ironic how the same thing that caused pain also made Marinete develop her complexity, her plans don't work well for normal situations in her civilian life but as a super hero she can use this to figure out how to use the luckycharm and make strategies to win.
With the lucky charm there IS a right solution but in real life sometimes things won't work out no matter how much you plan them to death.
At this point I just don't have any mental capacity left for this show and the egocentric baby Asstruck. I don't care about it's development anymore and seriously don't care about the love square, reveals ectr. Enough is enough.
The show is just broken and NEEDS TO END IMMEDIATELY. NO MORE SEASONS, JUST GET TO THE POINT.
That's why I want to thank you, for being able to get through that trash on fire and still point out the ridiculousness of it, making a summary of where is the plot heading now. At this point you are the only MLB related content, that I regularly come back to and look forward to. Even when what you are saying is just frustrating... (About the show being weak as hell) So once again, thank you for your patience, work and dedication that you put in your videos.
DERISION ALIAS INCOHERENT SHIT
I already put it here:
Thomas Astruc: Marinette's obsessive behavior towards Adrien is a PERSONALITY TRAIT IN ITS OWN, just like her kindness, her generosity, her creativity, etc.
also thomas astruc: marinette's obsessive behavior towards adrien is the result of a TRAUMA caused by Chloe BEFORE the beginning of the plot which also involves Kim and the swimming pools!!!!
good where to start? Already Marinette went to the swimming pool THREE TIMES before DERISION once with her friends in gorizilla, once with black cat in gang of secrets, once with kagami in Mr pigeon 72 where they found guess who? Adrian! and when I think of this last case I feel like blood! marinette was at her WORST in this episode where it was clearly established that she projected her ENVI to be with adrien onto kagami humiliating herself, kagami and adrien without any shame or complex, she even argued with adrien in the pool but hey I guess she was so busy admiring it that she forgot to remember her TRAUMA! in simpleman alias the most meta episode of the series marinette herself declared that the reason why she complicated everything with adrien is that she was afraid that he would reject her which is a perfectly rational way of thinking! Why is this trauma only valid with Adrien? She managed to date luka without any problems! And cat noir ? and cat blanc we talk about?
When you look at the interactions between Marinette and Chloe or between Marinette and Kim from the first ENTIRE four seasons, does it sound like interactions you would have with people who traumatized you???? yes origins has established that Chloe has bullied marinette in the past but within EVEN canon it has never been portrayed as having been so violent. in fact this past bully/victim relationship between them had NEVER been developed more than that, nothing, NADA, It was at most a forgettable detail. They have always been represented as rivals, even with an obvious antipathy between the two Marinette has never shown particular discomfort or resentment towards Chloé, and never has Chloé been shown an absolute desire to make her daily life a hell like what was returned to us on the screen in derision especially since she had the opportunity in the series several times but never did NOTHING!
Let's be serious for a minute! NEVER a drop of clue was thrown into the story about this!!! why? It was not planned! it just happened!!! It comes out of NOWHERE!!! AT NO TIME was Marinette's stalking behavior presented INSIDE the story as an issue, either something funny or endearing to certain characters STRONGLY STATING that it proved she was MADE TO BE WITH ADRIEN !???? Example: kagami in Mr pigeon 72 which is also first in the list of too many episodes which make derision incoherent in addition to dislocoeur, white cat, animaestro, and so on and the best! The writers have spent the last 2 seasons making Marinette more and more pathetic with depression and panic attacks and now they're getting THAT TRAUMA out of their ass! I'm just backbiting at this point, there's no way I'm feeling bad for Marinette! It's just that bad! If you want to talk trauma broach the subject in a decent way, this storyline (and season 5 in general) just screams "have mercy on marinette, hate Chloe and above all ship the love square" I'm sorry, I don't come in not on this train, it's bogus! It's forced to death!
Oh and also I forgot to mention ADRIEN. This boy has serious emotional issues and he needs to see an emergency psychologist and all the writers on that damned show who thinks he's trying to kill someone because he played a bad prank on your girlfriend there. has a pass and it's even scarier with its background (new york, scarabella, butterfly, dark owl)
EXACTLY!
It wasn't planned because the show was only meant to get one season before being extended to 5, and the broadcasters have no respect for the plot, so the writing only allowed them to make one of the episodes before it became popular. However, I do agree that certain aspects like Kim could've been hinted at way earlier. And I guess that the trauma she has is from going on dates with people she likes, so you have a point about the Luka side of things.
As someone with trauma, I honestly hope you NEVER go around someone with trauma or who needs help. Calling depression and panic attacks as being pathetic.
Also, if you feel bad for Adrien for the same reason as Marinette, but you don't for her, that's giving me misogyny vibes
@@PDD555 Ah no I think you misunderstood me, at this stage ALL the characters are narratively very poorly written and objectively pathetic. neither is more sympathetic in my eyes than the other. how could I invest myself emotionally in things that make NO SENSE???? i'll say it again: marinette's uncontrolled fear of being with adrien came out of nowhere at the 11th hour in season 5 so i can't get into it since it doesn't make sense with what I've seen before, adrien's emotional loss of control on the other hand is presented to us from cat blanc but the problem with that is that the series NEVER recognizes it as the emotional disorder that it is, neither him nor his teammates which is not only wasted potential for character development but also very dangerous writing and i know what i'm talking about in that i have basically the same issues as adrien although my manifestations are less physical (screaming, crying , broken objects) but adrien has the power to literally kill people and isn't afraid to threaten to use it (although he has accidentally killed or nearly killed people on SEVERAL TIMES). This behavior should absolutely NOT be ROMANTICIZED in any way, hell we have the fucking professional celestial guardian of meditation techniques right there!!! WHAT IS SUHAN FOR Exactly apart from telling Marinette she's fucked up?
so in summary marinette's trauma which is narratively incoherent is the one that is highlighted by the story while adrien's loss of control which is constant in the story is presented as the moments of "legitimate" anger of the hero in love uhh No ! This is unacceptable! nothing to do with misogyny! if you recognize Chloé's treatment for the bullshit you are an apologist for abuse if you say that zoé is a useless character you are homophobic it's fine to put labels on people's backs but if you don't count not counter argue your words are just empty! I support less and less that the series gives marinette and adrien the attributes of heroes and good people who are more and more undeserved, they are not inspiring characters and certainly not models to follow just the dolls of writers nothing moreover! Oh and about Marinette if I were to consider this cheap fanfiction as canon do you realize that would mean that Marinette was ready to subject a near stranger to the same kind of humiliation that she herself suffered for 4 years on NATIONAL TELEVISION CHANNEL in collaboration with HER BULLY all that for a guy she can't declare herself to because of the aforementioned bully no but WTF???? LOL!!!!!
“At this point, the fan base might aswell take over the show”
Fanboy 1: ok so here’s the plan, we’re going to knock Thomas out with a baseball bat, put him in a case, put a sheet around, wrap it around with a thick cover, tie it with a rope, wrap it around with CHAINS, tie a huge rock to it, and dump it down to ocean, sound about great!👍
The episode wasn’t "bad" but I don’t think this episode should’ve been in SEASON 5. I don’t like that the writers are finally moving the plot along after seasons of uselessness. This episode of Marinette’s backstory should’ve been way earlier and properly fleshed out.
Obviously, the backstory from this episode wasn't something that was planned until - at the very least - the start of production on Season 4. People have already pointed out some of the inconsistencies and plot holes that this episode created, but I don't see many people talking about how Marinette had no issues dating _Luka._
She seemed very normal and comfortable around him, even though this episode was meant to tell us that Marinette would take precautions with ANYONE she falls in love with. Yet, what she described in the flashback only happened with Adrien. Unless I'm missing something, this is yet another one of those inconsistencies that the backstory created. I just haven't seen many people mention it, so I wanted to point it out.
Exactly. Where's Luka's schedule? Where's his presents for the next birthdays? Where's all pictures of him on the walls. If people dare to say that she wasn't sure she really loved him and had stronger love for Adrien. I'm gonna throw hands.
One way to debunk this is that Blueberry boy.......is part of everyone's imagination and he ain't real
Boom-
@@tikkidupaincheng3230 Uhm. Excuse me, ma'am, I don't know what you're talking about- wait a minute- **CHOKES**
WAIT- **Checks channel**
BUT THIS ISN'T-
HOW DID YOU FIND ME-
@@joeljohansson3615 Let's throw hands together, bestie. Cause I'm near done with this fandom.
@@yourlocalchloesimp Oh my! I actually didn't see you here!
Hi my darling!!, me find you? oh no no no, it was fate and destiny.....they told me that you were still pissed about Derision-
"She doesn't have a lock on that thing" Funny thing, no one has a lock. It's either the writers forgot they need locks, or Damocles is using all the school's money for his Owl obsession and isn't getting anyone proper security.
I hate how the show in general, and this episode in particular, acts like the only impact of traumatic events worth acknowledging is how they affect your love life. Like how in Kwamis' Choice pt. 1 we had Marinette drowning in depression over the Monarch situation and the moment she mentions Adrien *as part of a larger crisis* the narrative and characters start acting like the only issue is her relationship with Adrien, to the point where as soon as she stops being Ladybug she's magically healed from her PTSD because she can get the boy now! Ugh.
In this episode we learn that Marinette was bullied cruelly and relentlessly, her problems overlooked by the teachers and principal, and publicly humiliated by her crush at the time, and all of this happened at the end of the previous school year, so like 3-4 months before S1 starts? I'd expect Marinette (and her girl friends!) to hate Kim, to always go to the bathroom/toilet room with a friend in case Chloe set something nasty for her, and to distrust her teachers and try to take care of things herself without involving them because clearly they're of no use, but what happens? She says she'll prepare better for any future crush, and that's IT!? Fuck, this series isn't even a good brain rot
Soquiline is the best girl, is all I can say. But honestly, Kim looks worse to me in this scenario than Chloe - she is a spoiled rich girl with severe family issues and no adult around who'd both set boundaries but also be there for her; and Kim seems to just do it for the "fun" of it.
Also, why would Marinette EVER give a love advice to him in Dark Cupid after that little "prank", especially since we were shown just how much it still affects her? And another thing: many teenagers can be stalker-ish when it comes to their crushes! Marinette didn't have to have a sympathetic reason for it - she is a messy teen, and in teenhood we often do things we come to see as wrong later in life.
The morals in this episode are completely messed up. Instead of retconning Chloe’s characters to show us that Marinette is too good for this world and that’s why she’s a stalker, they should’ve simply made her face the consequences for her toxic behavior IN THE PRESENT TIMELINE!
Some people in the fandom really think this backstory is good 💀 i swear to god some of them would defend anything. You ought to know by now how much of a manchild Thomas Asstruck is and how this was most definitely made because he was annoyed that the fandom rightfully pointed out at Mari's problematic and stalkerish behavior. Also there is nothing that makes me angrier than secondary characters being completely butchered in favor of the main character.. I can understand Chloe since she has always been a bully, but Kim didn't deserve that. He was always kind of a douche but not to this extent. Also, Marinette was never shown having any issues with Kim before Derision so i really don't get any of this. It's stupid and confusing.
Was the execution of this backstory good? No. I could've done way better and I'm not a writer 😂 but the backstory itself? The psychology behind it? Pretty flawless actually. This episode was never meant to justify Marinette's behavior, seriously, where are y'all getting that from, it's being thrown around like fucking confetti 💀 Trauma is hardly ever a justification for terrible behavior, it just shows where it comes from and how it manifests into a person's rationale. The way her trauma from a near-death experience manifested wasn't healthy or acceptable in the slightest. Nobody is saying that it was. All we are saying is that it makes sense! If your crush teams up with your longtime abuser and almost drowns you in the process, you'd probably be pretty obsessive about knowing EVERYTHING about the next guy and have trust issues which she definitely had. It was only when Adrien reciprocated her feelings that things started to turn around. That's when she began to panic. That's when her past trauma rears its ugly head. Up to then, it was just stupid silly Marinette dreaming of something that will never happen because it was just a dream for "the likes of her" (way of thinking of bullied people). But when Adrien started reciprocating her feelings, suddenly she was on the spot. It became realistic. A problem. And that's when her repressed trauma reared it head.
@@kainightshade5033 Ok but that does not explain why they needed to ruin Kim's character to explain the reason behind her behavior, or WHY she acts completely normal around him and even lets him use the monkey miraculous despite him being the center of her trauma. After knowing that Chloe tormented her *THIS* badly in the past i'm surprised she even considered giving *her* the bee miraculous back, she is *ridicolously* forgiving for it.. to a stupid extent.
@@MartinaAlbano-cx3kc Honestly, I don't get the hate Kim is getting. It's clear that kid was dropped on his skull as an infant so I can't be too mad at him 😂 it's not like he'd have carried out the attack if Chloe hadn't spearheaded it in the first place. He's not smart enough and wouldn't have a reason. But he simps for Chloe so. The monkey miraculous Marinette didn't give it to him. Master Fu did. Of course she can't counter the master. Kim, Chloe, Sabrina, or the pool isn't the center of her trauma. She trauma centers around love ITSELF. Couple that with her dissociative amnesia...none of this came up before because she wasn't in love (true love) with Adrien. On a subconscious level, she didn't trust him. Think about it: When did Adrienette begin to progress? After Queen Banana. Why didn't Mari's trauma come up in Mr. Pigeon 72? Because she isn't afraid of the pool. Why does it come up in Derision? because Derision is the time when she's going on an official date with Adrien. She's expected to be vulnerable and open herself up! What happened the last time she did that? Well, there you have it...
Thomas needs to get help to deal with how he's let the girl he based Chloe on live rent free in his head for almost 35 years now. This is an estimate based on how Astruc was Mariette's age like 34 years ago
Also, wasn’t Kim afraid of spiders?
I really didn’t like this episode. It’s another attempt to try to convince us that Chloe is bad when they know that they ruined her character, the entire back story feeling likes after though, and while Marinetts reasoning for her obsession makes some thing make scenes like the schedule, it still doesn’t excuse plenty of the horrible stuff she’s done. This was a good concept that was handled very poorly. And I whould of been fine with the ep if they didn’t ruin Chloe’s character. The backstory could happen still and after Adrian confronts her about it, she takes the initiative to apologize to her, completing her character ark. But I guess we can’t have nice things
I've been loving this season for a bit, but these past two episodes have been such a letdown, especially this one.
Migration was contrived as hell and wasted the cool idea of Luka knowing Ladybug and Chat Noir's identities. Like you said in that review, if Hawk Moth could sense Luka's distress and figure out the reason for it so quickly, then he'd known Marinette is Ladybug seasons ago.
Derision, meanwhile, is such a mess. I appreciate them trying to give a reasoning for Marinette's stalker behavior, but it didn't work for me. The dialogue when she was crying in the bathroom was so forced and unnatural. Like, nobody talks like that. The author's hand was fully visible then. And also Socqueline really just listened to Marinette state that she will employ the most toxic and unhealthy coping mechanism to deal with her trauma, and just decided to not try to not even bother dissuading her from becoming a creepy stalker.
This episode also just put such a shit stain on Ms. Mendeleiev, Principal Damocles and especially Kim, whose apology was so empty and forced at the end. Felt like a kid half-heatedly apologizing for breaking a vase after his parents made him do so. The entire episode just felt like one of those super angsty fanfics that go so overboard with torturing the main character that it makes everyone uncharacteristically mean to them for no reason.
And Chloé... I can't even look at her anymore. Cuz, like, she's the PERFECT example of Flanderization. Season 1 Chloé wasn't that and Season 2 showed she could've been more than just a stereotypical bully. But now with every episode, her writing becomes worse and worse. It's especially jarring when it happens in an otherwise good episode, where everyone else is written well, and then Chloé busts in the scene and the scrip drops on the floor. Just leave her alone already! Stop giving her screentime! Give it to Lila, she's so starved for it, especially for how important she's supposed to be.
the only reason hawk moth knew is bc of luka . Gabriel just wondered why Luka was resisting so hard , then he said “you know the identities of lb and cat noir” and luka confirmed it by saying “I’ll never tell you” . everytime marinette got almost akumatized she never resisted it at all , she actually wanted it to happen every time
@@iiii12345 including the time Chat Noir was in front of her in the episode which’s name I can’t remember atm?
@@10Bendog she still wasn’t resisting it . i rlly don’t get what ur asking rn
I like that the creators of the show noticed this very big problem with Marinette's character as came up with a way to explain why she does the things she does (stalking Adrien) and I have thought before 'what in the hall could have possibly happened to make her this obsessive? Did something happen with a previous partner or another loved one?' And now they've finally explained in a pretty good way, it's good enough I'll accept it and be happy with this explanation
This episode should’ve been an episode back in the first season or so, not way later on in the show. Also it’s very infuriating how retarded these adults are in this show. This episode also tries to justify Marinette’s stalking like it’s a positive thing
Exactly! This episode is such horsecrap!
no bc this is supposed to be before adrien came and even in the first ep he was there so
explantion and the point of this espiode is now that marinette knows about her trauma she wont do creppy things again
@Jonel Robinson agreed
"Hes also dancing merrily down the street making people crash their cars and fall on their ass" 💀💀💀
This was a polarizing episode, and for good reason: The sheer amount of retcons loaded into this mess just to have more anti-Chloe propaganda ended up making everyone look like shit. Now we have to contend with why Sabrina should get a miraculous at all when Socqueline has apparently been around the whole time?? And the optics of making Adrien so trigger happy with the Cataclysm when he was so busted up about Monarch getting it directly is more than a little wonk and very 'what the hell' hero territory.
Gotta say though, it's hard to say who is coming off worse this season: Chloe or every adult in the damn school
The excuse of "oh hawkmoth knows I know their identity, I have to leave" is such a copout to get rid of Luka cause they don't know what to do with him. Allya knows but nooo she is ladybug's secret confidant, we can't get rid of her! Dude he could have been there to help Adrien like Allya does with Marinette but nah!
And actually I've got to confess,
It's actually the 3rd time Adrian told Chloe off,
Telling her he'll never be her friend nor gonna put up with all her doings,
I'm just confused..
Didn't he stopped the friendship in the "queen banana" episode already?..
No he had not
Alright, who's the wet noodle who let Thomas back in the writers room? Seriously, while I wouldn't call this season good, it was improving in many areas. This, however, is some straight up season one bullsh*t.
Chat Noir is a useless doof? Check
Mary Sue style apologist writing for mariette? Check
"ChloE iS IrreDeeMAble"? Check
It's painful how obvious it is when they let Thomas have complete control of an episode. They are always the worst ones.
Though I will say this, I liked mariette's flashback design. She looked like an actual teenager with her hair up like that. I wish they had changed her top too though, so it would have matched better with the blue pants.
This might be going over the line. But can we let Thomas asstruc to disappear somehow permanently?
Luckily, his ass gets kicked out in S6
Lol I love how the writers are still trying to gaslight the audience into thinking all the events of this 5 SEASON show happened in a year....
I don't think that's gaslighting. Just incompetent writing and apparently, not knowing how to tell time because these kids LEGIT went on summer break! In my headcanon, these events take place over a year and I'm sticking to it 🥱 this is when I remember this show is written by old French dudes. Remove Thomas Astruc and 90% of this show's problem is solved! So glad his ass leaves after this season.
@@kainightshade5033 FR??? sounds too good to be true!
Marinette has the craziest amount of plot armor.
I'm honestly getting sick of it. -_-
Even Reiner & Jim Hopper's plot armor make senses than this little turd
@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDennisFan Agreed.
I can't believe that they would make Chloe the reason Marinette stalks💀like they are trying to justify it or something
Chloe has stopped becoming a character. Now she's just a plot device.
I know this isn't the focus but Rose's hair is so cute ☺️
I love her hair style in the past! 🤗😊🥰
I really like that they respected the old designs we were shown on a flashback
@@PDD555 more or less, if you look at the picture Rose's hair was cut straight and was less full than the version they used in Derision.
Can they just stop teasing Marinette being akumatized and just follow through already?
Probably
That sounds like a series finale kind of thing.
Thos guy is mean hater .-.
Marinette is also wearing her current hairstyle to honor Cycline
Socqueline.
Marinette's stalking is actually quite plausible as a coping mechanism. It helps her feel safe enough to approach the idea of romance with someone who she knows used to be close friends with her bully, but also, like many coping mechanisms, it isn't healthy for her in the long run.
Thank you for actually understanding the episode!!!
Yeah, but doesn't explain why she always sabotaging Adrien whenever he's hanging out with other girls, or breaking into his house, or kiss his wax statue
@@fatherplatypus2316 yeah, and she'll probably won't do it again. Trauma is not something you erase from night to day
See that's all well and good, but it feels exceptionally off to me that all of her friends have been teasing her, and putting her in these incredibly compromising positions despite everything that's happened. And Maybe Marinette hasn't told them how she feels, but if alya knows she's ladybug she should at least know about this.
@@powerpuff6872 Question- How was Marinette supposed to tell her friends about a trauma she herself didn't remember until very recently?
boy the writers really want to make chloe irredeemable its just sad - its complete character assassination and telling
like at this point if hawk moth was around back then she definitely would've been akumatized and killed her, i see no way it wouldn't
and even then why do they all act like seasons before she wasn't that bad, she's a memetic monster in this arc - can't even feel bad for her doormat friend who goes along with it, its all so poorly written
you can tell this show needs a desperate rewrite of the entire plot to get it on track on characters, history, lore, and arcs they wanted cause this wasn't it
also poorly explaining her over attitude to Adrien which cheapens it, quirky to trauma victim doesn't really work here cause its too explicit in how she words it (rather than an already clever girl she's just trauma'd to be better than anything)
Sad that kim still doesnt have a character centric episode. Not even in his own king monkey episode!
I miss the days when Chloe was presented like she was going for a redemption ark later on. Now they just stick with mean and prissy Chloe and it really sucks. I honestly kinda liked her before.
I mean I appreciate how they tried to explain her behavior, but I do think that the degree of that traumatic experience doesn't make sense for how Marinette acts. If she was just very anxious and always second guessed herself and planned things a bit too much then sure, this episode gives a very reasonable explanation for that. But this doesn't explain her stalker tendencies.
I feel like it would've been a better explanation, if we saw her try to confess to and maybe even date more than one dude. Also, have them be guys that the episode establishes are very good friends of hers, people that are all around just really good dudes who then go and do shit like what Kim did to her.
That way, it'd make more sense for her to be as stalkerish as she is. It's not right yeah, but I wouldn't really blame a teenage girl for becoming a stalker after her trust had been broken soo many times by people who up until that point, were good people.
I don't believe you realize that this "prank" was an attack. A near death experience actually. When you look at the poorhouse, it has 3 levels. The pool is an Olympic pool and the average dives are about 40-50ft in height. Marinette was at the top board when she fell down IN A ALREADY DISTRESSED STATE! It only takes a few inches of water to drown. She plunged into the pool at least 3ft by my calculations (and she's lucky she didn't hit the bottom considering the velocity at which she was falling). MORE THAN ENOUGH TO DROWN not to mention, she was already panicked. Also, the angle at which she fell into the pool would have realistically left her with nerve damage at least, death at most. It was a near death experience inflicted on her by her ex-crush and her longtime bully. Some people might compare this to Mr. Pigeon 72 and ask "Why wasn't she scared then"? Because that's not how trauma works! Marinette developed Dissociative amnesia from the events of Derision. It takes a certain trigger to activate it. Mr. Pigeon 72 wasn't about facing love again. Derision was. And that's what triggered the trauma to return.
No amount of trauma can justify stalking. This seems more like Thomas giving marionette an excuse after five seasons of people calling her a stalker.
This was so bizarre, I was waiting for the revelation that it was all a dream sequence or hallucination, made up story, alternate timeline, anything. I am absolutely flabbergasted thst this is supposed to be canon, it makes no sense! I'm glad I grew bored of the show before this point.
can't believe they made kim's brain even smoother than gabriel's. kim's got a sphere for a brain
Marinette is being akumatized more refequently now, but also finding a way to reject it from Ladybug, Elation, & Derision! I know this might not matter, but I see it as foreshadowing that there will be no one to save her when she DOES FULLY accept the akumatization and transform. I doubt she’ll be akumatized this season but hey, It’s a possibility.
Honestly this explanation is too little too late imo. It was very clear this was randomly thrown in there, if they wanted to explain her stalker tendencies it should have been sooner not 5 seasons later. Like who would stay friends or keep on good terms with a guy who humiliated you like that?
The writers were so focused on keeping this show a float by stretching it out at long as possible that nothing happened that they have to throw in so much random plot now because the fans are fed up.
Exactly. Like the song. It's too little too late!
I’m still confused how Marinette would’ve ended up becoming the laughing stock if that video of her was posted. Like clearly people online would see it and be like “thats fucked up as shit” and then start harassing Kim over it
"This is why Alya is such a beast. She always stands up for her."
[Enter Lila]
Alya: What is wrong with you Marinette? Can't you see that Lila is so obviously exhausted from achieving World Peace and being Ladybug's BFF?
this episode feels so delusional
Agreed.
The inteir episode feels like Astruc talking to his critics who dont like Stalkernette similar to how Adrien fell in love with her during the infamous wax statue scene and attack Chloe fans with her past that contradicts the episode with Marinettes past excuse
I’m surprised that Monarch akumatized Kim but not Adrien
Sure, Kim was annoyed but that was it
Adrien was legit *furious*, clenching his fists and glaring at Kim so much so that he pummeled him into the ground and was willing to straight up slowly torture him with his Cataclysm once he became Chat Noir
Then again, Gabe’s a total hypocrite that doesn’t akumatize his son despite all the other horrible stuff he does to him so I’m guessing he did felt Adrien’s anger but decided to go with the next best thing which was Kim
There goes my Chat Blanc variant… 😒
Adrian doesn’t have an alliance ring. Gabe tried to set Adrian up with an alliance a few episodes before for a better akumatization. Gabe wants people with the alliance so that he can get a better villain
@@mariahmione4563 Yeah, I suppose you’re right
This episode really sucks. It's such an obvious, lame, and lazy attempt for the writers to justify Marinette's really creepy stalking and obsession with Adrien, and to justify not giving Chloe a redemption arc. This episode doesn't even make sense and doesn't fit in with the plot. In the beginning, the only bullying we saw Chloe do was just name calling, and Marinette handled it pretty well and stood up to her eventually, now suddenly the bullying was actually worse and Marinette has panic attacks because of it? It just doesn't make any sense.
I wouldn't say it tries to justify her stalkerish behaviour. More like explain it only. With that being said I agree with everything else you said. This was not good.
Was having a crappy morning, already 3 of your jokes in and I’m feeling better. Your channel is snarky therapy. Thx.
This episode was a little triggering for me because I've been bullied and my bully loved making my life miserable to the point I was happy to leave my middle school and learned later that Karma got her good in the end. And its sad to see that Marinette was confident in asking someone out to a date and have a go with the flow attitude at first. Only to be broken by Chloe and Kim for an extremely cruel prank that could've seriously hurt Marinette from the way she fell from the diving bord. Also, I love how ready Adrien was to cataclysm Kim boyfriend material right there. And if I was Adrien at the end of the episode I would've poured that glass of orange juice on Chloe's head to show how done I am with the friendship especially when you look at his facial expression he was beyond pissed and probably wanted to do and say more.
I feel like we should have had more episodes like this in earlier seasons where we see chole actually being truly awful. Especially since Thomas says she's irredeemable. It would have set up her character the way Thomas wants us to see her much better.
"...in front of what's-her-name".😂
Not that you care, but her name's Ondine.
The reason Monarch wasn't instantly killed by Cataclysm might have been because of all the Miraculouses he was wearing. We don't know if Akumatized villains have the same resistance.
I was pretty glad that they brought this out in Kim, its actually a nod to his character way back in I think the first season, right down to the villain design. He's a complete douche, but at least its accurate to his character.
Okay. Many in the comments are fifty fifty over if this episode excuses Marinette's stalking or not. Aswell as that this episode makes Chloé really unredeemable. So let me say my thoughts.
Sure, what Marinette is doing when falling in love with Adrien (gathering information about him) is explained why she does it. And I understand the episode that she want to be cautious about the crush so what happened with Kim doesn't happen again.
But let's break this down. Knowing someone's schedule for the coming three years are a little too much. And even if Marinette is traumatized after what happened with Kim. It's still no excuse to do that. She could just hang out with her crush after school and slowly get to know them.
And one thing people miss is Luka. She didn't find out everything about him. Where's his schedule? The gifts for his next birthdays? Pictures all over the walls? No, she doesn't do that because she already know he's a good guy? That's not how it should work with this episode's logic.
She should have starting to stalk Luka too. But nope. So can her stalker behavior on Adrien still be explained by this episode? It still can but if you count in Luka, then no.
Next up is Chloé. Oh Chloé how much crap you get. Sure the hints of her redemption came out of nowhere and should have been shown more in season one. But let's just say that what she did in the flashbacks one year back to Marinette. Where the hell did this come from?
Cockroaches in her locker, paint on her seat, threatening her friends to stay away from her, and making Kim "prank" her with a box of spiders? What the hell. This is more extreme than the previous episodes and seasons.
What did she do there? Made Alya get suspended for locking in her locker without permission? That's actually kinda understandable. I wouldn't like anyone look threw my stuff. Even for just taking a picture.
Accusing everyone in her class of stealing her bracelet and getting Sabrina's dad fired? Once again, this is understandable. No one except Adrien knows about Plagg, so they can't ask him. So she's actually in the right thinking someone stole ot from her. Maybe making Sabrina's dad get fired wasn't as understandable but she wanned her bracelet back.
Rejecting Kim and sending an embarrassing photo? Sure she could have skipped the photo. But breaking his heart because she doesn't feel the same? Wow so terrible. It's so horrible that she's honest about her feelings towards him. I mean really? This is normal, she could have used his love for her to her advantage, resulting in her playing with his feelings. The fact that she doesn't do that and just rejects him and embarrass him is then much better. Still could have gone without the picture.
So the fact that the writers and mostly Thomas Asstruc decided "hey. Let's make Chloé a total overly mean bitch here." Like seriously. I know there's more in previous seasons and episodes where she did very terrible things. But here they make her look like the devil herself.
In my conclusion. The writers is force feeding us with a reason for Marinette's stalker behavior and how Chloé is unredeemable. It doesn't work at all. If they wanned this episode to be more impactful. Then they should have showed us for shadowing in previous seasons and episodes.
Like Marinette being a little nervous going to the pool in Mr pigeon 72, or maybe in dark Cupid when she hears about Kim confessing his love to Chloé that she hopes Chloé gets the same prank that she got. She might hear Zoe's story about the cockroaches in her locker and say that she knows how it feels. Showing her watching her seat closely before sitting down.
Small hints and foreshadowing for this episode. That would be be great. Right now it feels like they just came up with this.
And before anyone of you who disagree with me comment something. I don't care I'm just saying what I think. You can disagree with me how much you like. But I don't care.
seh didnt care about dating luka as much as she did with adrien she proably knows the schelde of her whole class and adrien schelde is reptive and easy to rember and its different cause this time she is going on a date with adrien and kim is there
Stalking is still stalking. It's still concerning and worrisome. Just because something happened in someone's past, that doesn't mean they should get the free pass card for their actions.
The fact people are now like "oh, Mari did it as a way to cope with being humiliated? It's totally fine/relatable!" is actually very concerning. Many coping mechanisms aren't healthy, but people should be able to see this, admit to it, and strive to pull away of their own accord.
What does Mari do in this episode? She blames it all on Chloe, which is basically her using Chloe as an excuse to justify her actions. And let's be real, if she and Adrien weren't a thing, she would still be stalking him.
So I personally was not a fan of how the writing in this episode was done.
To me, this is the episode that "confirms" that they're soft rebooting the show and seasons 1, 2, and debatably 3 might as well no longer be canon save for key events like Marinette meeting Master Fu, introducing Luka and Kagami, Alya, Nino and Chloe getting a miraculous, and Chloe betraying Ladybug.
I question so much. I mean in the first seaosn they present us Kim as a bit mean but more of a goof. Then in seaosn two and three they go over to him just being a doofus but in a way lovable, and now this. I mean is he nice or is he an ass now?
I’m kind of giving up on this show…but imma watch your reviews for the episodes until I get interested fully again.
it irritates me too much that even the writers keep trying to make us hate Chloe when more than hate I feel pity, pity in how he treats her like an irredeemable demon that can't be justified by her past, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO MARINETTE WE CAN JUSTIFY HER BAD ACTIONS WITH ADRIAN FOR SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED IN HER PAST THAT CAME OUT OF NOTHING, geniuses.
This, is a terrible episode. and nothing can change my mind
kim is a horrible person, and going by miraculous world logic hat makes him irredemae period
The flashback was a horrible retcon, it makes no sence in the current storyline.
adrien leaving chloe makes no sence. chloe already dumped adrien.
and finaly...oh chloe, why are the writers so against you? why are they bullying a child.
chloe is one of those charecters who nees teh cliche disney villan redemton arc. and they are choosing to smash her into the ground until she is nothing
Im so glad they toned down her terrified screams from the leaks. I got freaking trauma flashbacks from them
Oh my god me too. I saw it and it was genuienly horrifying.
Remember back in the season 1 when Ivan almost punched Kim and then became the first person akumatised in the show?
Yeah Kim was a bit of a bully early on and I had thought the show had forgotten. Not sure if it's better or worst now that particular part of his character is now semi-relevant...
I think the reason why Monarch couldn't discover ladybug's identity was because she wasn't thinking about it too much. Luka however, was strongly resisting and panicked not to reveal the secret. I also liked that we got the backstory of Marinette and how she became what she is. As for Chloe, yes she's the worst, but I can also really blame her father for not standing up to her. I mean, seriously, I have no idea how he even became the mayor if he's so corrupt.
This episode is insulting on so many levels.
Not only Marinette’s trauma comes literally out of nowhere (no foreshadows, no hints, no hunches, none!), they try to justify her stalking tendencies. Only sociopaths and hypocrites would dare to come up with it.
If they wanted to portray PTSD, then they made an awful job.
I believe Korra did it better. Not only we got to see her traumas firsthand, and how she valued her avatar status as her self-worth, but everyone pointed out to her that, while what happened to her is genuinely messed up, it’s still not an excuse to wallow in self-pity, as even her biggest offender tells her she can blame him as much as she wants, but it won’t help her to heal.
The point being, it’s true we don’t choose our traumas, but we do choose how to respond to them, therefore we are responsible for how we react to it
This episode also doesn't age well when you see Darkblade again. While the moment of Marinette dreading the thought of Chloe being mayor does hold a tiny bit of weight for the future as we know, but I'm lost again because it's also the same ep where Kim admits he was blackmailed to vote for Chloe or be told he's scared of spiders!? Ok that is a major plothole.
So they're assassinating Chloe and Kim's character? Like why ruin Kim this late?
I do not know if I am wrong, but this episode proves that Adrien does not deserve the cat miraculous. He is too emotionally unstable, and he has the power to destroy anything. Think about it. In the darker owl episode when the principal made Marinette and Adrien believe they defeated Monarch and got to live a loving/ normal life with each other, Adrien snapped out of the illusion. He tried to kill the darker owl knowing that Monarch was manipulating him. In this episode, he tried to cause major damage to Kim. Yes, this was not Kim's finest moment, but if he can put up with Chole before snapping, this story should not bother him. He hears one bad story about Kim and wants to cataclysm him. It is not just Marinette with issues. It is Adrien. Hopefully, in the movie, they will not make him emotionally unstable. Those are my thoughts.
I respect your opinion, but I would say that Adrien does deserve the black cat, but MARINETTE doesn't deserve the Ladybug. Here's the reason why:
1) Adrien has a LOGICAL reason why he behaves this way and has a fleshed out backstory with an abusive parent.
2) He sacrificed his life MANY TIMES FOR LADYBUG, WHO CONTINUALLY MISTREATED HIM.
3) He misuses his powers MUCH LESS THAN LADYSHIT.
4) He's a great person and knows right from wrong. Without him Ladyshit would lose many times.
5) He's a sentimonster.
Adrien has less issues and it is well explained. So I respect it but don't agree at all. He is more and more stable and controls himself a lot especially considering all the abuse and he's a sentimonster.
i'd argue that nobody deserves a miraculous in this stupid ass show,after all,THEY'RE ALL KIDS N all of them can use a miraculous without any problem
Absolutely agreed. It might not even be a matter of "deserve" or not, but the miraculous isn't a right, it's a privilege and a very grave responsibility. If he's not ready to handle it, like we've seen many times, he isn't right for it. He has renounced Plagg like how many times now? Being a superhero is his literal job. People die if he doesn't, or if he does it wrong. No matter the whys or the hows, he's emotionally unstable, he should not be dealing with this. ADULTS SHOULD. Why Fu ever thought giving the miraculouses to a pair of fourteen year old kids is beyond me.
@@areldyperez8446 exactly man,Like C'mon,N it was shown that it wasn't rlly faith or bcz master fu is a genius at choosing,in fact, it's not even due to the Mlb characters's personality n the animal representation (for exemple,a 🐞 is luck n it's abt Marinette's "bad luck",Or a bee,which fits Chloe's persona as she is very bratty n represent "royalty" or even a black cat as Adrien since It basically foreshadows that his backstory is rlly sad) ,the episode kwamibuster pretty much kills the importance of every superhero characters in the show, So why didn't mr fu choose an actual wise person
By the way, the cataclysm doesn't not kill people. Gabriel survived because he was transformed, but Kim didn't have a miraculous. He for should would crumble to dust.
Agreed
Why didn't you type "doesn't not" when you could have just types "does"?
But he was dark Cupid so
This episode manage to make me hate Kim, Sabrina and the adults of the series. (But especially Kim, like they killed Kim character, and he knows that Chloe is a terrible person after humillating him in dark cupid).
Also even though this episode explain the stalking of Marinette, it doesn't justify that Marinette never learns that what she does is wrong, she got what she wants without needing to grow as a person.
Also side note, Monarch just has access to the biggest emotion, and even though he can communicate via telepathy he can't read minds, all the times Marinette almost be akumatized her main concern is not the miraculous but the emotional problem she is facing, while Luka cares more about the wellbeing of others than him, so the identities problem would be his biggest concern
@@tsurbwobniar20 no, she knows that her aproach was bad cause it was a bad coping mechanism not because it was creepy and stalky.
In emotion she enters uninvited to a party, knowing that Adrien's father always throw a fit when things don't happen in his way and Adrien is the one who pays for it, to tell him something that could wait to the next day.
I am not saying that Marinette is a terrible person, but the sloppy writing make the character inconsistent
I think maybe people should take a look at Helga in Hey Arnold and compare Helga with Marinette. Hey Arnold was a great cartoon back in the day.
I always felt maybe Hey Arnold may inspired Miraculous in some sort of way. lol. Probably not, but it's a nice thought :)
I read the scripts when they were leaked. This season is one major disappointment lol. Dropped this show
who knows if S6 will be decent, now that Astruc is not on the writing team at all. Idk. Not excited
He's 90% of what's wrong with it. So glad his manchild immature ass will be out of this. Maybe, from a narrative standpoint, it'll actually improve
in other words, if you stalk people to deal with your problems that's ok, but if you bully people to deal with your problems your irredeemable. unless your an adult causing stress disorders across the entire city you need a hug and nothing else.
No. In other words, you can have flaws and make mistakes but you should try to change them. One girl is sweet at heart and even though she's made terrible mistakes, she, unlike the other girl, actually seeks to right her wrongs unlike the other who's a bitch just for the sake of being a bitch 😊.
@@kainightshade5033 I've seen alot of your comments. This is not a complete dig at Mari as a characters so much as the way they write her character. I can no longer see Chloe as a character only as a punching bag and as such any new info about her actions will always be attributed to the writers (in this case the creater especially) not wanting this character to have the fans or adoration she gets. It's like having fights fixed to show how 'great' a talent is in wrestling. Chloe doesn't change because she is not allowed to. You are talking about a 14 yo girl who is doing exactly what Mari encouraged her to do, double down on bad behavior to get the approval of her absentee mother, and for this I will never take the side of the so-called 'sweet at heart' writing given to this hypocritical protagonist. I can see how other can still adore this character but that will not change the anger that Chloe fans have toward the writers and creator for their lackluster and indulgent way of pushing the story forward at the expense of every character but Mari. She is feeling bad now but that is to get the audience primed for the level of good luck(plot armor) coming her way.
@@DazedContent Doesn't that seem weird though? Essentially, you just hate the main character for being the main character. We were told from the beginning Chloe was a bully who'd never have redemption. To me, it feels like a lot of Chloe stans are pressed because they deluded themselves into believing her "15 minutes of kindness" in S3 was enough for the redemption arc the main writer said wasn't happening. Not liking a main character is one thing. I watch plenty of shows where I hate the main character 😂 but this series has made it so obvious that Chloe wasn't a good person, isn't a good person, and will never be a nice person, that it seems...idk...kinda crazy to be pressed about it. Luckily, Astruc is leaving in S6 so perhaps the new writer will change things.
@@kainightshade5033 I guess being a Mari stand yourself you will defend the writing that will always have your character being right and at the top.
The problems with the series go beyond just Chloe, its the way that the other characters cannot grow for fear that they could be better at something than Mari. The most accomplished person other than her is felix and we're not supposed to like him either. She is above everyone and is always right. Not even a fully trained guardian can tell her she's wrong. That's bad writing no matter how you look at it.
Chloe's development may have been surface level but it was something to get attached and hope for a different path that got burned and buried. You don't need to agree. You hate this character and I don't like your's. The ridicule you spot will not change my opinion on how bad the writing have been. Astruc may be leaving but he made sure to push the story into a hole. There is little change they can do without contradicting his heavy handed writing other than retconing it which would anger people like you who agree with his direction of the story.
@@DazedContent I'm actually not a "stan" of any character because I find that within itself toxic. I look at the situation objectively. I also do not hate Chloe. I just see her for what she is. A self righteous, self entitled bitch. Now, is it possible for her to change? Absolutely. But for now, that's where she is in life and that's how I call it. Marinette on the other hand, while a flawed character, is good at the core. She has moments where she's a straight up bitch, but that's not her personality trait. She also recognizes her mistakes and rectifies her behavior when it's out of line. I have never seen Chloe do that throughout the entire run of the series even in her "good era". The direction of this story is Marinette and sometimes Adrien's POV which makes sense as they are...the main characters? If anything, they need to focus on giving Adrien more screentime in his own show 😂 what they do with side characters is just extra content. The only side characters I'm interested in seeing is Kagami and Felix.
The explaination for Marinette's stalking in this ep makes no real sense❗ Did anyone have the feeling she stalked because of past trauma with Kim?🤔 There were no hints earlier for that. She stalked Adrien because she was obsessed with him. She litteraly said that in season 1.
Yeah, no shit. Because it was only the first season.
A lot of things have been retconned and added. Season 1 was produced as an entire story in case there wasn't a continuation
@@dangerbuffrocky That doesn't make it make more sense. Instead of excusing her behavior with this trauma, they could have let her agnowledge her mistakes and appologize. This was a bad attempt of explaining her behavior.
@@PDD555 By the time season 1 was written, they knew they had 3 seasons. So this should have been an earier episode.
@@snooker7107 from s1 to s3 the rating of the show was intended for really young kids, so they couldn't show any heavy trauma. That's why from s4 onwards, when the show rating was higher, they started showing more mature things
Ending the stalking is a good thing. Marinette getting more back story is a good thing. How ever this episode just feels like the writers fighting with the audience and creating plot holes.