10:10 is actually my headcanon on how Upchuck was able to eat the Sub Energy in the Ben 10 finale, he ate it and then halfway across the galaxy the entire Gourmand race suddenly all threw up leading to the destruction of one of the Peptos planets
Hi Kuro and Ash, Myrmecologist (Ant scientist) here, usually queen ants give birth to 3 types of ants workers(females), male alates and female alates (alate=reproducers) males almost immediately die after mating, maybe gourmands just ike ants can produce king/queens every season or in case of some ants and bees another female gourmand could ''become the queen by consuming something special (or by ripping out a specific organ from her body), (sometimes black crazy ants can produce genetic clones of themselves and their husband so the sibilings are completely unrelated and can have thousands of queen))And for the subspecies thing two species can be extremely similar phenotypically (external appearance) but can greatly differ genetically, lot of animals have very similar traits despite being completely genetically different, or maybe covergent evolution, maybe two species separately evolved into upchuck because they are the best! Great breakdown by the way!
@@brunowillich1837 specially since as The “Fastrack is physically Stronger than XLR8” thing is still In play. Than its Likely that Citrikayas are likely more of a fighter species than its implied for kinecelerans. So it’s an Army of Soeedsters that know how to fight
Actually Kuro u have it confused they don't have a pocket dimension stomach. They have their stomachs that are LINKED to a pocket dimension bladder. Which means that their stomachs aren't linked their bladders are. Which is much weirder but hey its aliens
I always thought that the Queen was half Perk, Half Murk. The two races just can't get along and see each other's issues, so once a generation they have a Perk and Murk interbreed to produce a hybrid that can think like both and understand both stances.
The ant/bee Queen makes sense and I honestly can see it however it brings a point, what would happen if the Queen dies before she could produce her heir
25:20 So, about ants. It really depends on the species, but generally, the "alates" are winged individuals. Those can be either male or female, and they are only birthed after the colony reaches a point of stable growth and self-reliance. Males are always winged, and their only purpose is to mate and die after mating. Female alates will become the future queens after the nuptial flight. But female daughters of the Queen, depending on the species, can also be divided by castes: some are smaller and usually are simple workers, specialized in collecting food, building tunnels and caring for the brood. Some are larger, with larger heads, and they can go by several names, one of them being "major". Majors are the hunters and defenders of the colony, with great biting muscles and larger size. Some specific species of ants have more castes, such as one that's just a mobile food reserve, filling their social stomachs to the point of inflation (yes, ants have social stomachs, it's an organ they use to store clean food they share with the colony via "kissing" their sisters and vomiting the food into their mouths), others have differently shaped heads to block off entries and exits to the colony. Ants are a particular obsession of mine, and I hope my explanation helped a bit! Edit: Also, with the Gourmands, I think both "subspecies" could fill different niches within the "colony". Perks, with their specialized stomachs, can eat more and digest inorganics effectively, plus having spoons (looking like shovels), makes me think they're the ones that shape and carve their temporary settlements on the Peptos system. Most likely they were the ones to build that council room. Murks, on the other hand, can eat anything, but have less stomach than the Perks. That, and having Forks, makes me think they can act as the scouts and soldiers of the colony, eating any threats that could appear, be it organic or inorganic in nature.
We need a dollar for every time this happens. Ash or Kuro: *does a pun* The other: "Shut the f up" I'd have 2 dollars. Which isn't much, but it's hilarious that it happened twice
I THINK the way Gourmands work... is that they have their own stomachs, Perks have 4, Murks have 1... and then, AFTER that is the Gastro dimension, its deeper in there.
Azmuth might have added both Perks and Murks because they consider themselves and each other to be so different. Imagine how the Murks would feel if the smartest being in several galaxies seemingly decided that the Perks were the superior Gourmand
He also could’ve manually added them in just because of how different they are. He probably already knew about gourmands and decided to do that for them. Or maybe primus itself does the sorting.
Given how crabs eat each other, I hope the next and beyond does a subspecies, or maybe just a completely different crab thing altogether, that eats the others. Make everything on Encephalus IV become crab.
13:39 Upchuck ate the Red Forever Knight ninja stars and shot them out without harming the stars in Classic as well, also its really weird how he can digest metals but not digest food, felt like a "weakness" that was slapped on just for the sake of it
Well to digest something you need to have the right biological components to break it down, if their species just doesn't eat regular food there's no reason they would be able to digest it and I don't think it was a slapped on weakness just an interesting and ironic fact about the species because lore is fun
Maybe his body has an allergic reaction to earth food and that’s why he can’t digest it. I mean some people can eat meat but they’ll die if they eat peanuts. Maybe upchuck can just eat metal but his body can’t handle a burger.
I always thought his stomach fluids have this all digesting enzyme as anything he ate became the same exploding goo (except the ninja stars) @@someoneindeed
The defense mechanism is basically “scorched earth”. Which some animals actually do. Though it usually involves just shitting everywhere. I think within the context of the episode it’s believable that they would be petty enough to not let any enemy gain new territory.
the Gourmand ultimate defence is actually a deterent. You won't attack them if you know they can eat your planet and then move away, even if you have the hability to do the same.
Fun little detail I realized while watching is the fact that the Gourmand subspecies use Forks for the more proactive Murks and Spoons for the more reactive Perks noting a potential of why the species broke into different subspecies. One is more aggressive, while the other is more passive with the Queen being the bridging point between them
@18:40 My understanding of this is not that Ben is actually timing out, but that he's intentionally reverting his form. The sound effects team just kinda put that sound effect in whenever he changes back, and you can only tell if it was intentional based on how Ben reacts to it.
Honestly I don't care about the subspecies being counted as different forms because azmuth intended to be a tool of peace, imagine how insulting would be to a specie that you included one but not the other, it's kinda giving some wrong implications
I think the best part of this episode is that ben learned from His past mistakes regarding diplomacy, last time he tried to force it to work, this time, he didn't force anything
I wonder if eating organic food is a trait that the Gourmand has to grow into. Like a 10-11 year old Gourmand can't digest normal food but an older, more experienced one, can.
Ash and Rob brainstorming possible Gourmand lore for a future And Beyond episode. Kidding (unless?), but genuinely it was really fun to see them discussing theories about the species. Especially with comparing them with ants.
This is probably the only difference I know between perks and murks is that perks have four thin tongues while murks have one thick tongue. I know it’s minuscule but it’s one difference
When you think about it, this makes sense. Cause remember. The Omnitrix is meant to somehow revive a species if it did die. Turning into it is a side function technically
For the purpose of Plan Omega, it’s shown at the start that pestos is surrounded by huge swarms of space debris, maybe the plan is to throw so many rocks around the neighborhood that moving large ships through the vicinity becomes impossible. It’s a bit like digging up a moat and piling the dirt into a rampart, except the moat is a trail of tectonically unstable planets that make the system look unappealing and the rampart is a giant asteroid belt.
okay but "Captain Revonnahgander" is perfect because Rook not only did that move with his shield here, but he's also voiced by Bumper Robinson, who went on to play Sam Wilson/the Falcon (although I'm not sure if his specific version became Captain America, I know that character in general does)
I don't think the subspecies discussion matters that much because, if Ben or Azmuth wanted, there should be a way to calibrate the Omnitrix to be more specific with its differentiation of species.
It was made to scan all sorts of life right… at least to act as a catalogue of species on planets. Though it does tend to be the more sentient species so it’s not like Ben could turn into an ant or something similar from another planet… unless it can think for itself and not just rely on instinct. So it’s understandable that is a subspecies is different enough that it would work.
The ant argument makes sense because if the Queen was based on a queen bee, the Gourmands would just feed a random baby special food to make a new Queen. They'd still panic but they have resources to make a new Queen while ants don't
Eh depends on ant species, they can be very very different, some can adopt new queens, in some there are workers that can replace the queen and there's even ant species where there isn't really a queen and they operate more like some kind of pack in which it's simply the most dominant that gets to be the one that reproduces
@@someoneindeed Pretty much, that's why some of the facts they researched contradicted with each other as Ant species and how they reproduce differ like you said. Black crazy ants for example can have multiple queens and can somehow birth clones of the previous male ant and female queen ant in which they can breed and be genetically fine despite technically being siblings lol. While fire ants need 1 queen and if no new ant queen replaces the old one, the whole colony just dies out.
I always assumed the Queen was given that role because they are living proof that two species can work together. The Queen looks has a Perk color palette, but Murk patterns, which I always thought that meant they were a hybrid of both species.
The gourmands life plan really puts me to think. Specially regarding to how fast they just send matter away, i can't avoid speculating something like the gourmand eventually eating the whole universe, and the gastro dimension creating a new big bang in the form of some sort of cosmic belch
I think Big Chill "timing out" was a featute of the new Omnitrix to conserve energy. When Ben has done what he needs to do with a certain form, he reverts back to save energy and shorten the cooldown time between transformations.
I love this episode, especially Plan Omega, and Ben's utter confusion. Ben 10 explaining creatures like the Gourmand is so interesting to me. The species itself is not a very smart kind, but also not as primal as, for example vulpimancers. I would really like to know how the galaxy around them reacts to the planets just being eaten and the whole species just moving to another. Also, I'd say it's a GourWendy's. Or a GourMandy's.
I think brown Tetramands are also a thing. It’s also stated that there are white Appleplexions similar to real tigers. But this would be the first time it’s explained on screen.
Hi, biologist here. So you might be surprised by the fact that "what counts as a subspecies" is actually a genuinely hard and awkward question to answer even for a scientist. The exact boundaries between species, subspecies and other taxonomic groups are often very hard to specify, simply because all of these terms are human-made. There's no clear genetic rule that determines what a species or subspecies is, other than maybe the percentage of shared genes, and even that can vary significantly between different taxonomic groups. Scientists often debate about whether a subspecies is even valid, or if it should be considered a species on it's own. So realistically speaking, every single individual DNA could count as a separate transformation in the Omnitrix, although it's possible that the device filters out and rejects samples that are too similar to an already acquired one. In the case of Gourmands, it's possible that the two subspecies are genetically so distinct that they got past this filtering function. If they were studied by human scientists, it would probably be a matter of debate whether they count as two distinct species or not. When it comes to ants, their biology is extremely complex and variable, so I'm not gonna get into all the things you guys got wrong, but one correction is that they do not get orders from the queen. In fact it's the queen herself whose brain functions are severely reduced after it produces the first few workers. The workers do everything by themselves, they even control the queen and force her to stay in an area or move if they think that's better. All the queen does is lay eggs. It's also genetically impossible for the same queen to produce different subspecies. Different castes of ants all share the same genes, they're just raised differently. But then again, even irl ant genetics are incredibly f*cked up in ways that would be too complicated to explain here, so who knows what kind of weird stuff could be going on with an alien species.
Honestly really liked the episode a lot, very creative take on the Gourmands and their subspecies, but agree that it's not perfect and glad it got a decent score also loved the animated add
31:33 Technically the incurseans don’t have a homeworld so she can’t do this. It’s explained the winner gets possession of both worlds, implying both heroes must have a homeworld to begin with
4:44 What are you talking about? As a cat owner, I can assure you that that head is correctly attached. 5:05 This girl should have been one of Animo's minions or something. Imagine a rivalry between Nyancy and a dog-themed supervillain. 7:04 Good grief, he's naked! 11:18 🎵When his shoes are unlaced/He trips and hits his face!🎵 *Edit:* Damnit, you did that one already. How about this: 🎵He is the only one/Who thinks this song is dumb!🎵 You know, you should just have viewers send in their own suggestions at some point. 14:34 And if it is an ethnicity thing, it raises the question of whether Ben can do that with other human ethnicities. It's probably a good thing this never comes up in the show, because that sounds like a powder keg waiting to blow.
37:41 They should have made him transform into a Murk Gourmand to balance out the fact that he transforms so much into a Perk Gourmand, in fact it would have been perfect since at the beginning of the episode he transformed into a Perk Gourmand, having him transform into a Murk Gourmand at the end of the episode would have been good.
My subspecies thingie interpretation is tbis: Omnitrix only scans subspecies if it would be relevant for the species, in the case of Upchuck's species, their population is made by Both subpecies, if one was just a minority of the population it wouldn't matter, but here both subspecies are important for their Culture The omnitrix is both a Noe's ark and also a device to allow species to understand each other, so in a case like this the omnitrix would scan both subspecies Another theory/interpretation is that the difference in genes that would make the omnitrix seem fit to scan both species would be in stuff like the difference between Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals, you would look at them and say "yeah, those two are related" but the differences in brain and bone structure would be notorious and would qualify an omnitrix transformation if the situation'd deem it necesary, same case as previous interpretation, they have no place in our culture as a species besides history, so the omnitrix wouldn't scan it
The way the Gourmand Queen/colony relationship is also similar to a Xenomorph’s relation to their respective Xenomorph Queen in their hive (which was also based off of ants) but it’s a little different to where if the Queen dies every Xenomorph that was connected to the hive becomes disabled for at least either a while or until another Xenomorph evolves into a Queen because the Xenomorphs have what is basically a hive mind based psychic connection to the Queen and it essentially breaks their mind when the Queen dies
35:37 kinda unrelated but ben and rook are posed so badass here. I genuinely like the way ben’s designed so it kinda always looks like he’s on a perspective shot with how his pants widen at his feet and then you have kinda a curved line up his body with the way he stands.
30:37 commonly, when multiple queens exist, in at least ants, the colony would have to be big enough to accommodate the corresponding number of queens. A lot of them are either from successful hives too, as opposed to an alliance, though that can happen four the sake of diversity.
"What was your favorite episode of 'Ben 10 Breakdowns', little Billy?" "I really like the one where Rob and Ryan talked about ants for a LOOOOOOOOONG time!"
What if he transforms into an alien species that never reaches lets say mid-adult age when he's a mid-adult? Will he transform and then just drop dead on the spot?
@@jakariashafin8685 until the transforms into an alien where the whole species has superpowered cancer and never reaches adulthood so they never reached proper civilization and are at best still in the somewhat bronze age stage of development of their species.
@@youtubestudiosucks978 then he would not be able to transform into them due to there lacking intelligence or the omnitrix would fix em somehow like the hybrid
@@jakariashafin8685 dolphins are intelligent and listed in the omnitrix, a species with teenage level intelligence would be still smart enough to be listed in tbe omnitrix despite their mayfly lifespan in compairingson of other alien species. It would go like this, Ben transforms and then he drops dead, the omnitrix has a randomizer function and Ben keeps activating that function by hitting the omnitrix too hard. Imagine he accidently transformed into that during the highbreed invasion lol. I imagine that such a species would be similair to William Birkin with the g-virus, heals damage but mutates until it becomes immobile and then it just starves to death. That sucks.
I like to think the reason why attire is now a teenager despite only being a year since we’ve seen her technically is because, of the stasis jail, which she was putting in alien force. I think, maybe instead of freezing them and stopping them from ageing it instead accelerates their age, so translation attires mother would be dead
Bro, I've become sick of this really.... WTH is racism? Is it pointing out that you are of a different race. Like in a shop there are two people one black and other is white. Does this mean that the shop is exhibiting racism😅. Like the hell?
I have my own bit of canon as to the upchuck stomachs. I think that they have the pocket dimension stomachs alongside their own personal stomachs. The personals stomachs are for the upchucks to be able to digest food for energy while the pocket dimension is for their “unending appetite” so that they can eat with no repercussions.
Ants are really interesting because certain species have many different casts. Usually only juvenile queens and drones have wings, but casts like majors and super majors and unique ones like honeypots are all born from the queen despite being visually completely different
1:56 The possibility of a human subspecies as a separate transformations is interesting. 2:08 The CW Flash could be Omnitrix Compatible 2:19 The Spider-Man transformation would be cool. Even though the Omnitrix can’t scan ghosts or any Ghost Zone Native, the idea of a Human Ghost hybrid is still GIANT Maybe/What-If in my opinion.
Also, another little idea on how the pocket dimension stomachs might work. You know how ruminants (ex. cows) have four-chambered stomachs? It's because what they do is swallow grass without chewing, pre-digest it and then regurgitate it to chew, after which they send it down into a different stomach chamber. Maybe gourmands also have multiple stomach chambers like what they implied with og upchuck, and they're able to swallow stuff into a normal stomach and regurgitate it, but the pocket dimension is linked to a different stomach chamber from which there's no turning back.
every few months i come back to these breakdowns and binge old episodes alongside them and i feel like i just see so much more perspective watching this show again. i was obsessed when i was 11 but kinda dropped off for a few years, so now as a 19yr old i see these episodes so differently
34:22 - So the sound effect here was a bit of a jumpscare for me since I am 95% sure that's the same sound that was used for Sari Sumdac's transformations in Transformers Animated. Maybe the 2 shows shared the same sound library as well as the same artstyle?
I'm the only one who thinks that this aspect of Upchuck lore was inspired by Kirby? Kirby also has a pocket dimension inside him, which is how he is able to eat so much stuff.
15:36 the reason i think is because all the transformations are pre-scanned by azmuth's workers so any species that even look different was scanned, so technically x-men would kinda count or any super-powered person IF they were scanned and added to the condon stream beforehand
if i had to guess on the 'mutants' thing, i'd think i would reference back to how max says that humans have only a tiny deviance of DNA when malware gets the tachyon cannon, implying that MOST species around the universe have a much, MUCH higher deviation between individuals in a species than humans do on average. and i would also take into account the theory that ben CANNOT stay as a single alien for too long or else it'd damage his DNA. so I'd think for something to be considered a mutant by the omnitrix, it'd either have to be VERY SIGNIFICANTLY DEVIATED from the base species, OR the DNA would have to carry genes that would possibly permanently alter the User if they transformed into them (aside from the DNA repair function on the omnitrix.. maybe)
I think the Queen thing with them being idiots is deliberate, like part of the joke is definitely "If she hadn't been kidnapped, they'd have won immediately". I'm certain that is intentionally absurd.
💧It's Delicious, and Nutritious! 👉 tinyurl.com/SwagTankMerch 💧
Nice.
Happy Saturday!
🎉
I’d actually try that
nasty ass water 💀
"In a process known as polygamy, some ant colonies have two queens."
"Sir, this is a Gourmand Wendy's."
Lmfao
*Polygyny.
Man ants are really woke lol
Gourmendys?
@@KraylebStudios based ants
Upchuck: I sleep
Ants: Real Shit
Let’s go ant boiz
Yeah, sorta weird that they mixed this fascinating documentary about ants, with a few scenes from an animated series from the 2010s.
lol
well they are the dominant species on the planet
This show is just so packed full of references that i just would never catch without these breakdowns
Gotta stay informed!
And the most important fact here…. ANTS
@@bobbyahmad5197Not even anything about ants, just A N T S.
@@TheInkTank You forgot wrong alien list
@@richardkirkland6805 and you know who their favorite hero is? Ant man
10:10 is actually my headcanon on how Upchuck was able to eat the Sub Energy in the Ben 10 finale, he ate it and then halfway across the galaxy the entire Gourmand race suddenly all threw up leading to the destruction of one of the Peptos planets
I support this 👆
This is canon to me until something in the show says otherwise.
What I expected: A full on debate over the ramifications of allowing subspecies transformations with the Omnitrix.
What I got: *ANTS*
ANTS
@@silentnight6810 ANTS
ANTS
ANTS
ANTS
Kuro forgot the wrong alien counter when big chill appeared 💀
Oopsie, got distracted by Jetray. Thanks!
@@TheInkTank Maybe that's why they didn't want Jetray in OV
Hi Kuro and Ash, Myrmecologist (Ant scientist) here, usually queen ants give birth to 3 types of ants workers(females), male alates and female alates (alate=reproducers) males almost immediately die after mating, maybe gourmands just ike ants can produce king/queens every season or in case of some ants and bees another female gourmand could ''become the queen by consuming something special (or by ripping out a specific organ from her body), (sometimes black crazy ants can produce genetic clones of themselves and their husband so the sibilings are completely unrelated and can have thousands of queen))And for the subspecies thing two species can be extremely similar phenotypically (external appearance) but can greatly differ genetically, lot of animals have very similar traits despite being completely genetically different, or maybe covergent evolution, maybe two species separately evolved into upchuck because they are the best! Great breakdown by the way!
cool
Knowledge
Fascinating
Embezzling
Upchuck is at the top of the food chain
The cat lady is a joke villain until she finds her way into Rath's or FastTrack's homeworld
Ahem, her named is Nyancy. (the ov crew really wearing Japanese media inspirations on their sleeves, eh?)
Yo only then people will respect fasttrack
An army of speedsters ☠️ the good guy's plot armor would have to be STRONG for them to win
@@brunowillich1837 specially since as The “Fastrack is physically Stronger than XLR8” thing is still
In play. Than its Likely that Citrikayas are likely more of a fighter species than its implied for kinecelerans.
So it’s an Army of Soeedsters that know how to fight
@@哲二川上the only issue is them living for like 2 weeks off world
Actually Kuro u have it confused they don't have a pocket dimension stomach. They have their stomachs that are LINKED to a pocket dimension bladder. Which means that their stomachs aren't linked their bladders are. Which is much weirder but hey its aliens
Episode: is about the expanded lore about frog looking aliens
Breakdowners: talks about ants
And the episode that focuses on ants practically never talks about them. Lol
I always thought that the Queen was half Perk, Half Murk. The two races just can't get along and see each other's issues, so once a generation they have a Perk and Murk interbreed to produce a hybrid that can think like both and understand both stances.
The ant/bee Queen makes sense and I honestly can see it however it brings a point, what would happen if the Queen dies before she could produce her heir
25:20
So, about ants. It really depends on the species, but generally, the "alates" are winged individuals. Those can be either male or female, and they are only birthed after the colony reaches a point of stable growth and self-reliance. Males are always winged, and their only purpose is to mate and die after mating. Female alates will become the future queens after the nuptial flight. But female daughters of the Queen, depending on the species, can also be divided by castes: some are smaller and usually are simple workers, specialized in collecting food, building tunnels and caring for the brood. Some are larger, with larger heads, and they can go by several names, one of them being "major". Majors are the hunters and defenders of the colony, with great biting muscles and larger size. Some specific species of ants have more castes, such as one that's just a mobile food reserve, filling their social stomachs to the point of inflation (yes, ants have social stomachs, it's an organ they use to store clean food they share with the colony via "kissing" their sisters and vomiting the food into their mouths), others have differently shaped heads to block off entries and exits to the colony.
Ants are a particular obsession of mine, and I hope my explanation helped a bit!
Edit: Also, with the Gourmands, I think both "subspecies" could fill different niches within the "colony". Perks, with their specialized stomachs, can eat more and digest inorganics effectively, plus having spoons (looking like shovels), makes me think they're the ones that shape and carve their temporary settlements on the Peptos system. Most likely they were the ones to build that council room. Murks, on the other hand, can eat anything, but have less stomach than the Perks. That, and having Forks, makes me think they can act as the scouts and soldiers of the colony, eating any threats that could appear, be it organic or inorganic in nature.
Ash:”you can say it a gut reaction “
Kuro:”shut the f up”😂
Man… and here I was thinking, “Call it a gut feeling”
Ui though he said chuck the f up
You can say Fuck. I promise.
We need a dollar for every time this happens.
Ash or Kuro: *does a pun*
The other: "Shut the f up"
I'd have 2 dollars. Which isn't much, but it's hilarious that it happened twice
I THINK the way Gourmands work... is that they have their own stomachs, Perks have 4, Murks have 1... and then, AFTER that is the Gastro dimension, its deeper in there.
Must be nice to have 4 stomachs
@@redbrachydios Still have to see a cow complain about it so yeah, must be nice
Makes sense, because it's called a bladder dimension, not stomach
Yeah, that’s probably there way to take a shit.
Bladder do they uh store stuff in there uh you know...@@vik.o1598
Azmuth might have added both Perks and Murks because they consider themselves and each other to be so different. Imagine how the Murks would feel if the smartest being in several galaxies seemingly decided that the Perks were the superior Gourmand
It's valid and my personal canon because it might give the wrong idea to not include both
It's litterally meant to be an anti-racism device, it makes sense to include this for a species that is racist against members of it's own species.
He also could’ve manually added them in just because of how different they are. He probably already knew about gourmands and decided to do that for them. Or maybe primus itself does the sorting.
Ben 10 breakdown ❌
Ants breakdown ✅
Mental Breakdown 🤘
20:01 Kuro brought out some 2000s nostalgia with that Crazy Frog
"Thy shall not eat crab cake, WITHOUT THE SOY SAUCE!!!!"
XD Love it
Given how crabs eat each other, I hope the next and beyond does a subspecies, or maybe just a completely different crab thing altogether, that eats the others.
Make everything on Encephalus IV become crab.
The start of the Incursean Invasion Arc.
Incursean.
@@christianparrish3292Thanks
Indeed.
@@BeastForce141 You're welcome
Each episode we’re coming closer to my love, Bullfrag
13:39 Upchuck ate the Red Forever Knight ninja stars and shot them out without harming the stars in Classic as well, also its really weird how he can digest metals but not digest food, felt like a "weakness" that was slapped on just for the sake of it
Well to digest something you need to have the right biological components to break it down, if their species just doesn't eat regular food there's no reason they would be able to digest it
and I don't think it was a slapped on weakness just an interesting and ironic fact about the species because lore is fun
Si exactamente como usarías eso en una pelea?
It was just a throw away line for a gag
Maybe his body has an allergic reaction to earth food and that’s why he can’t digest it. I mean some people can eat meat but they’ll die if they eat peanuts. Maybe upchuck can just eat metal but his body can’t handle a burger.
I always thought his stomach fluids have this all digesting enzyme as anything he ate became the same exploding goo (except the ninja stars) @@someoneindeed
The defense mechanism is basically “scorched earth”. Which some animals actually do. Though it usually involves just shitting everywhere. I think within the context of the episode it’s believable that they would be petty enough to not let any enemy gain new territory.
yeah its like go ahead and take our planet, what's left of it that is
the Gourmand ultimate defence is actually a deterent. You won't attack them if you know they can eat your planet and then move away, even if you have the hability to do the same.
Fun little detail I realized while watching is the fact that the Gourmand subspecies use Forks for the more proactive Murks and Spoons for the more reactive Perks noting a potential of why the species broke into different subspecies. One is more aggressive, while the other is more passive with the Queen being the bridging point between them
@18:40 My understanding of this is not that Ben is actually timing out, but that he's intentionally reverting his form. The sound effects team just kinda put that sound effect in whenever he changes back, and you can only tell if it was intentional based on how Ben reacts to it.
That's been my understanding of it for a while.
Upchuck's race may look like Frogs, but act like ANTS.
DJW really opened Pandora's Box by introducing the subspecies concept all because he liked Upchuck's two different art styles.
Yeah, I didn't think he'd thought fans would take it thst far 😅
He probably thought the fans wouldn't take it to far. But hey at least it causes discussion.
Honestly I don't care about the subspecies being counted as different forms because azmuth intended to be a tool of peace, imagine how insulting would be to a specie that you included one but not the other, it's kinda giving some wrong implications
@@Eric6761best way I’ve heard it justified is Azmurh knew if he picked one Upchuck over the other it would result in a civil war
@@skibot9974 exactly, it would be chaos
37:32 I think eating the planet leaving pieces creates more asteroids to ward off invaders
Fun fact, certain frogs can freeze over entirely, just be frozen, then thaw out and be fine. So no, Ben did not kill those Incurseans. Probably.
Thank you for that
I think the best part of this episode is that ben learned from
His past mistakes regarding diplomacy, last time he tried to force it to work, this time, he didn't force anything
yeah not many people talk about this
I wonder if eating organic food is a trait that the Gourmand has to grow into. Like a 10-11 year old Gourmand can't digest normal food but an older, more experienced one, can.
That actually makes perfect sense, there should really be more examples of Aliens getting new powers or just having a big change because of maturity
2 hours talking about ants?? Damn, please release it on the rust bucket, that would be great
Ash and Rob brainstorming possible Gourmand lore for a future And Beyond episode. Kidding (unless?), but genuinely it was really fun to see them discussing theories about the species. Especially with comparing them with ants.
Ben: "I don't like to freeze people."
Also Ben: 32:06
This is probably the only difference I know between perks and murks is that perks have four thin tongues while murks have one thick tongue. I know it’s minuscule but it’s one difference
Bro at 35:58 what the fuck was this, sure kuro and ash gave an explanation but still I’m like WHAT!
32:15 Actually since the incurseans are based on frogs they could still be very much alive if you know how frog biology works.
Oh yeah, the frogs that freeze themselves for hibernation
Kuro You Forget To Count The Miss Transformation Counter When Ben Tries To Tranform To Jetray But Instead He Got Big Chill
Love the breakdown upchuck is a alien that i grew love very much
Also kuro at 18:34 big chill is a miss transformation that wasnt counted
When you think about it, this makes sense. Cause remember. The Omnitrix is meant to somehow revive a species if it did die. Turning into it is a side function technically
Yeah you're right
For the purpose of Plan Omega, it’s shown at the start that pestos is surrounded by huge swarms of space debris, maybe the plan is to throw so many rocks around the neighborhood that moving large ships through the vicinity becomes impossible. It’s a bit like digging up a moat and piling the dirt into a rampart, except the moat is a trail of tectonically unstable planets that make the system look unappealing and the rampart is a giant asteroid belt.
"Gut reaction" was just perfect.
okay but "Captain Revonnahgander" is perfect because Rook not only did that move with his shield here, but he's also voiced by Bumper Robinson, who went on to play Sam Wilson/the Falcon (although I'm not sure if his specific version became Captain America, I know that character in general does)
And, well, Rook IS a boy scout ass
I love him
I don't think the subspecies discussion matters that much because, if Ben or Azmuth wanted, there should be a way to calibrate the Omnitrix to be more specific with its differentiation of species.
It was made to scan all sorts of life right… at least to act as a catalogue of species on planets. Though it does tend to be the more sentient species so it’s not like Ben could turn into an ant or something similar from another planet… unless it can think for itself and not just rely on instinct.
So it’s understandable that is a subspecies is different enough that it would work.
I'm so proud of Ash for that gut reaction joke.
I learned so many ant facts today and it wasn't even on the Dr Animo Ant episode 24:13
The ant argument makes sense because if the Queen was based on a queen bee, the Gourmands would just feed a random baby special food to make a new Queen. They'd still panic but they have resources to make a new Queen while ants don't
Eh depends on ant species, they can be very very different, some can adopt new queens, in some there are workers that can replace the queen and there's even ant species where there isn't really a queen and they operate more like some kind of pack in which it's simply the most dominant that gets to be the one that reproduces
@@someoneindeed Pretty much, that's why some of the facts they researched contradicted with each other as Ant species and how they reproduce differ like you said. Black crazy ants for example can have multiple queens and can somehow birth clones of the previous male ant and female queen ant in which they can breed and be genetically fine despite technically being siblings lol. While fire ants need 1 queen and if no new ant queen replaces the old one, the whole colony just dies out.
I always assumed the Queen was given that role because they are living proof that two species can work together. The Queen looks has a Perk color palette, but Murk patterns, which I always thought that meant they were a hybrid of both species.
The gourmands life plan really puts me to think. Specially regarding to how fast they just send matter away, i can't avoid speculating something like the gourmand eventually eating the whole universe, and the gastro dimension creating a new big bang in the form of some sort of cosmic belch
I think Big Chill "timing out" was a featute of the new Omnitrix to conserve energy. When Ben has done what he needs to do with a certain form, he reverts back to save energy and shorten the cooldown time between transformations.
I've always saw it as that.
I love this episode, especially Plan Omega, and Ben's utter confusion. Ben 10 explaining creatures like the Gourmand is so interesting to me. The species itself is not a very smart kind, but also not as primal as, for example vulpimancers. I would really like to know how the galaxy around them reacts to the planets just being eaten and the whole species just moving to another.
Also, I'd say it's a GourWendy's. Or a GourMandy's.
I think brown Tetramands are also a thing. It’s also stated that there are white Appleplexions similar to real tigers. But this would be the first time it’s explained on screen.
There was way more discussion about ants here than during the "It was them" breakdown
10:25 Reminds me of when Kevin was hypnotized 😂
17:48 Petropia's destruction: am I a joke to you?
True, but he did need a special crystal to do so
@@TheInkTank but does Rook know that. Also while he didn't do it through raw power Aggregor almost destroyed Picciss.
Our humans classifications are primitive, the Omnitrix probably uses the superior galvan definition for "Subespecies"
Hi, biologist here. So you might be surprised by the fact that "what counts as a subspecies" is actually a genuinely hard and awkward question to answer even for a scientist. The exact boundaries between species, subspecies and other taxonomic groups are often very hard to specify, simply because all of these terms are human-made. There's no clear genetic rule that determines what a species or subspecies is, other than maybe the percentage of shared genes, and even that can vary significantly between different taxonomic groups. Scientists often debate about whether a subspecies is even valid, or if it should be considered a species on it's own. So realistically speaking, every single individual DNA could count as a separate transformation in the Omnitrix, although it's possible that the device filters out and rejects samples that are too similar to an already acquired one. In the case of Gourmands, it's possible that the two subspecies are genetically so distinct that they got past this filtering function. If they were studied by human scientists, it would probably be a matter of debate whether they count as two distinct species or not.
When it comes to ants, their biology is extremely complex and variable, so I'm not gonna get into all the things you guys got wrong, but one correction is that they do not get orders from the queen. In fact it's the queen herself whose brain functions are severely reduced after it produces the first few workers. The workers do everything by themselves, they even control the queen and force her to stay in an area or move if they think that's better. All the queen does is lay eggs. It's also genetically impossible for the same queen to produce different subspecies. Different castes of ants all share the same genes, they're just raised differently.
But then again, even irl ant genetics are incredibly f*cked up in ways that would be too complicated to explain here, so who knows what kind of weird stuff could be going on with an alien species.
Honestly really liked the episode a lot, very creative take on the Gourmands and their subspecies, but agree that it's not perfect and glad it got a decent score also loved the animated add
31:33 Technically the incurseans don’t have a homeworld so she can’t do this. It’s explained the winner gets possession of both worlds, implying both heroes must have a homeworld to begin with
The Galvans should have clarified that it can only be done if both species has a planet to begin with
And tbf incurseans love war so they just kill for giggles
I didn't expect a biology lesson from this breakdown lmao
4:44 What are you talking about? As a cat owner, I can assure you that that head is correctly attached.
5:05 This girl should have been one of Animo's minions or something. Imagine a rivalry between Nyancy and a dog-themed supervillain.
7:04 Good grief, he's naked!
11:18 🎵When his shoes are unlaced/He trips and hits his face!🎵
*Edit:* Damnit, you did that one already. How about this:
🎵He is the only one/Who thinks this song is dumb!🎵
You know, you should just have viewers send in their own suggestions at some point.
14:34 And if it is an ethnicity thing, it raises the question of whether Ben can do that with other human ethnicities.
It's probably a good thing this never comes up in the show, because that sounds like a powder keg waiting to blow.
37:41 They should have made him transform into a Murk Gourmand to balance out the fact that he transforms so much into a Perk Gourmand, in fact it would have been perfect since at the beginning of the episode he transformed into a Perk Gourmand, having him transform into a Murk Gourmand at the end of the episode would have been good.
My subspecies thingie interpretation is tbis:
Omnitrix only scans subspecies if it would be relevant for the species, in the case of Upchuck's species, their population is made by Both subpecies, if one was just a minority of the population it wouldn't matter, but here both subspecies are important for their Culture
The omnitrix is both a Noe's ark and also a device to allow species to understand each other, so in a case like this the omnitrix would scan both subspecies
Another theory/interpretation is that the difference in genes that would make the omnitrix seem fit to scan both species would be in stuff like the difference between Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals, you would look at them and say "yeah, those two are related" but the differences in brain and bone structure would be notorious and would qualify an omnitrix transformation if the situation'd deem it necesary, same case as previous interpretation, they have no place in our culture as a species besides history, so the omnitrix wouldn't scan it
The way the Gourmand Queen/colony relationship is also similar to a Xenomorph’s relation to their respective Xenomorph Queen in their hive (which was also based off of ants) but it’s a little different to where if the Queen dies every Xenomorph that was connected to the hive becomes disabled for at least either a while or until another Xenomorph evolves into a Queen because the Xenomorphs have what is basically a hive mind based psychic connection to the Queen and it essentially breaks their mind when the Queen dies
35:37 kinda unrelated but ben and rook are posed so badass here.
I genuinely like the way ben’s designed so it kinda always looks like he’s on a perspective shot with how his pants widen at his feet and then you have kinda a curved line up his body with the way he stands.
That'd make for an awesome Thumbnail ngl
completely agree
25:54 that's not the simple episode. That's the Fool's Gold episode.
37:10 They’re Gourm-Ants!!!
30:37 commonly, when multiple queens exist, in at least ants, the colony would have to be big enough to accommodate the corresponding number of queens. A lot of them are either from successful hives too, as opposed to an alliance, though that can happen four the sake of diversity.
18:33 you forgot a mis-transformation
"What was your favorite episode of 'Ben 10 Breakdowns', little Billy?"
"I really like the one where Rob and Ryan talked about ants for a LOOOOOOOOONG time!"
Absolutely it was fascinating hearing Kuro and Ash yap about ants.
Hey Billy, are you going for your surgery today?
Maybe since Ben's transformations seem to age with him, 10 year old Upchuck couldn't digest organic material, but teenage Upchuck can.
What if he transforms into an alien species that never reaches lets say mid-adult age when he's a mid-adult?
Will he transform and then just drop dead on the spot?
@@youtubestudiosucks978the omnitrix makes sure that doesn't happen
@@jakariashafin8685 until the transforms into an alien where the whole species has superpowered cancer and never reaches adulthood so they never reached proper civilization and are at best still in the somewhat bronze age stage of development of their species.
@@youtubestudiosucks978 then he would not be able to transform into them due to there lacking intelligence or the omnitrix would fix em somehow like the hybrid
@@jakariashafin8685 dolphins are intelligent and listed in the omnitrix, a species with teenage level intelligence would be still smart enough to be listed in tbe omnitrix despite their mayfly lifespan in compairingson of other alien species.
It would go like this, Ben transforms and then he drops dead, the omnitrix has a randomizer function and Ben keeps activating that function by hitting the omnitrix too hard.
Imagine he accidently transformed into that during the highbreed invasion lol.
I imagine that such a species would be similair to William Birkin with the g-virus, heals damage but mutates until it becomes immobile and then it just starves to death. That sucks.
I like to think the reason why attire is now a teenager despite only being a year since we’ve seen her technically is because, of the stasis jail, which she was putting in alien force. I think, maybe instead of freezing them and stopping them from ageing it instead accelerates their age, so translation attires mother would be dead
When the omnitrix can make a viable transformation from nanochips, I didn't get why the idea that subspecies can have forms would be surprising.
exactly, plus makes the Omnitrix even more busted which is good for the show
3:39 well, well, Professor H makes a reappearance. Now, who got to voice him?
Kellen brings the talent once more!
@@TheInkTank good 'Ol Kellen! He rocks! Did he also voice plugg, or was that someone else?
@@christianparrish3292 That was Ash. We have more surprise additions to the cast in the full episode!
@@TheInkTank noice!
I always just assumed the queen was a hybrid between a Perk and a Murk. This is why both subspecies obey her.
We got racism in ben 10 before gta 6
Bro, I've become sick of this really.... WTH is racism? Is it pointing out that you are of a different race. Like in a shop there are two people one black and other is white. Does this mean that the shop is exhibiting racism😅. Like the hell?
This shit's getting out of hand...
@@x-zotic_minded it ain't that deep bruv chill
@@ShadyRadaideh aright Man! sorry. Went a little to harsh😂😅
😅@@ShadyRadaidehI think we got this episode before gta 5😂
I have my own bit of canon as to the upchuck stomachs. I think that they have the pocket dimension stomachs alongside their own personal stomachs. The personals stomachs are for the upchucks to be able to digest food for energy while the pocket dimension is for their “unending appetite” so that they can eat with no repercussions.
20:02 and here's crazy frog. I don't like him either. And it reminds me of how you showed us an edit of him in the ledgerdomain breakdown.
20:20 Echo Echo seems to have a bit of frog in him too, and a very frog-relevant power set (sound projection, multiplication 😏)
Ants are really interesting because certain species have many different casts. Usually only juvenile queens and drones have wings, but casts like majors and super majors and unique ones like honeypots are all born from the queen despite being visually completely different
1:56 The possibility of a human subspecies as a separate transformations is interesting.
2:08 The CW Flash could be Omnitrix Compatible
2:19 The Spider-Man transformation would be cool. Even though the Omnitrix can’t scan ghosts or any Ghost Zone Native, the idea of a Human Ghost hybrid is still GIANT Maybe/What-If in my opinion.
Also, another little idea on how the pocket dimension stomachs might work. You know how ruminants (ex. cows) have four-chambered stomachs? It's because what they do is swallow grass without chewing, pre-digest it and then regurgitate it to chew, after which they send it down into a different stomach chamber. Maybe gourmands also have multiple stomach chambers like what they implied with og upchuck, and they're able to swallow stuff into a normal stomach and regurgitate it, but the pocket dimension is linked to a different stomach chamber from which there's no turning back.
8:45 Yo that's an amazing impression,Ash is talented👏
every few months i come back to these breakdowns and binge old episodes alongside them and i feel like i just see so much more perspective watching this show again. i was obsessed when i was 11 but kinda dropped off for a few years, so now as a 19yr old i see these episodes so differently
34:22 - So the sound effect here was a bit of a jumpscare for me since I am 95% sure that's the same sound that was used for Sari Sumdac's transformations in Transformers Animated. Maybe the 2 shows shared the same sound library as well as the same artstyle?
I'm the only one who thinks that this aspect of Upchuck lore was inspired by Kirby? Kirby also has a pocket dimension inside him, which is how he is able to eat so much stuff.
Yeah, I thought so, too.
to be fair it is only weird that rath does not wear clothes because Appoplexian as a species do wear cloths normally
It’s a gut reaction
Shut tf up 😂 had me rolling
15:36
the reason i think is because all the transformations are pre-scanned by azmuth's workers so any species that even look different was scanned, so technically x-men would kinda count or any super-powered person IF they were scanned and added to the condon stream beforehand
The Gourmond's being Insect-frogs is so interesting. I love it. A mother queen that births the the rest of the up chucks.
I just love that a solid 5-10% of this video is Kuro and Ash going on about ants
That is what I love this channel for
It's simple. He cannot eat organic stuff. Ben doesn't like organic smoothies anyways, so it checks out!
if i had to guess on the 'mutants' thing, i'd think i would reference back to how max says that humans have only a tiny deviance of DNA when malware gets the tachyon cannon, implying that MOST species around the universe have a much, MUCH higher deviation between individuals in a species than humans do on average. and i would also take into account the theory that ben CANNOT stay as a single alien for too long or else it'd damage his DNA.
so I'd think for something to be considered a mutant by the omnitrix, it'd either have to be VERY SIGNIFICANTLY DEVIATED from the base species, OR the DNA would have to carry genes that would possibly permanently alter the User if they transformed into them (aside from the DNA repair function on the omnitrix.. maybe)
18:28 We didn’t get a miss transformation counter
At 18:33 you missed a mistransformation counter, as he wanted Jetray but got Big Chill
Thank you!!!
This episode took me hours to watch, but I want to see more ‘Ant Facts with Kuro and Ash’
Well done guys
Hope to see more Ash in future breakdowns
I think the Queen thing with them being idiots is deliberate, like part of the joke is definitely "If she hadn't been kidnapped, they'd have won immediately". I'm certain that is intentionally absurd.
This is easily one of my favourite episodes in the franchise
It is dumb but in the best way possible
19:18 Goosebumps Kuro. Gut reaction was a good one Ash 👍🏻🤣
I love the subspecies retcon for upchuck. He was already a personal favorite of mine and getting double up chuck? Is perfect for me!
it's more like an add on
It's more of an add on than a retcon.