Ep. 042 - 7mm PRC | In-Depth Discussion | 2023 New Product |
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- On this episode, we are thrilled to discuss our 2023 new product lineup! Seth is joined by Marketing Director Neil Davies, Assistant Director of Engineering Joe Thielen, and Ballistician Jayden Quinlan. We go into great detail on the all new, 7mm PRC, including how it came to be, the design process, and the potential applications of this cartridge. The 7mm PRC was a passion project for us, we hope you enjoy it as much as we do.
I have been waiting for this forever! I love that Hornady is essentially delivering custom ballistic capability to factory ammunition. If only the manufacturing division can keep up the the demand… I imagine that these three prc chambering along with creedmoors will become the go-to rifle chamberings in the years to come…
The 7prc ammo is on the shelves. 5 boxes of Precision Hunter with the 175 ELD-X at North 40 in Idaho this week. Thanks Hornady for getting it out there. Keep it coming.
Have you shot any groups with it if do what do they look like. What kind of rifle. I always wanted to know if hunting ammo shoots like target ammo
What's going on with the precision hunter 7 PRC ammo shooting the 175 grain eldx? I currently shoot a 7mm rem mag and have been watching the 7 PRC. If you look at the ballistics for the precision hunter ammo published by hornady, based on 3000 ft/sec velocity at the barrel, they are amazing! I have been looking at this at the ultimate long range mule deer / elk round which carries 1500 ft-lbs of energy out to around 900 yards (5000ft, 40degrees)! That's truly incredible with only a little more recoil than the 7 mag. But what seems to be surfacing everywhere now is that no one is achieving 3000 ft/sec out of a 24" barrel, not even close. Most people are getting around 2800. This makes it not much better than the 7mag shooting a 162 eldx ballistically. No better than a 6.8 western (suspiciously absent from hornady). What gives? People are buying these rifles based on published ballistic data which seems to be false.
When the 7mm PRC was first introduced, the velocity specifications were set using several high-performance propellants that were readily available at the time. As most of you are aware, there is a world-wide propellant shortage. As such, we’ve been forced to find alternative propellants. When choosing a substitute powder, we focus on accuracy, consistent ignition, and temperature stability. A new propellant option met our criteria and, more importantly, is available, however it often doesn’t achieve the original velocity specifications. With this reduction in velocity coupled with variation in chambers and barrels, it is possible to see 75-175 fps slower velocity from your rifle, than the velocity printed on the box. This alternative propellant solution does generate the consistency and accuracy we demand. Other substitutes did not meet those requirements; we prioritized accuracy over speed. Hornady has always encouraged shooters to test ammunition from their rifles to obtain accurate velocity data.
Due to the powder shortage, everyone in the ammunition manufacturing sector is faced with choosing between loading ammunition slower than originally specified, or simply not loading ammo at all. This temporary powder solution has allowed us to continue to produce and ship ammunition despite the powder availability concerns.
@@hornadythanks for the explanation
Adjust the velocity claims on the ammunition box to reflect the reduction seen with the new propellant.
@@richardchambers917 "Adjust the velocity claims on the ammunition box to reflect the reduction seen with the new propellant." Yes, of course, but this radically changes the selling point of the PRC in the first place at 2800. While probably more accurate than the 7mag, ballistics become very comparable and similar to 6.8 western. Less reason to switch.
Hornady has done the same with 7mag superformance 154sst load, over pressure, flattest primers I've ever seen and blown out the case head making it single use brass. Maybe a substitute powder and trying to maintain box velocity?one of my hot .308 handloads is 10000psi over saami according to GRT and does not show the pressure signs as much as Hornady's load. I don't like to dump a company but I'm nearly done with hornady
*GUN MAKERS PRODUCING THE 7mm PRC*
Allterra Arms, Atlus Shooting Solutions, Best of the West, Christensen Arms, Fierce Firearms, GA Precision, Gunwerks, Hill Country Rifles, H-S Precision, Horizon Firearms, J.P. Sauer & Sohn, McWhorter Custom Rifles, Proof Research, Remington, Ruger, Savage, Mossberg, Seekins Precision, Short Action Customs, Springfield Armory (coming 2023), Stuteville Precision, TS Customs, & West Texas Ordnance.
Hope Bergara jumps in this wagon!!
@@lorenzotelleria1858 man, they'd better! I was wanting to get one of their HMR's in .300PRC but like days before I was going to make the purchase I heard about the saami specs for this round and I said "yep, I'll wait"
Adam Weatherby didn't jump on the train? Oh man, his lite weight rifle is going to miss out...
@@lorenzotelleria1858 Yeah, Bergara should get on the train...
Glad to see Ruger and Savage! And even Remington. Hope Remingting does good work.
Seth stand corrected. Yes the PRC family is almost complete. 25PRC will actually complete the conquest 😁
Hornady 🇺🇸💪❤️
Hmmm… like the way you think 😉
338 PRC?
The 25 cm is a thing. 25-08 too. Kind of not worth it though when 6cm is right there. But yea lots of guys love both with 131’s it’ll arrive. Just give ‘em a couple years to sell current new chambers and they will. Berger makes a 135g .650 that is legit. Keep it just under 3k and they make 1 hole all day.
@@lorenzotelleria1858 I was thinking 338 as well. 338 Norma and Lapua Mag are stiff competition though, but do people hunt with them? Maybe if theropods are genetically resurrected on a private ranch somewhere a 338 PRC might be useful for hunting...
I think you guys nailed it with this one! This isnt anything new that no one knew about, but you guys are the ones who are bringing the whole package to the shelves.
I believe Ol' Les Bowman would be impressed.
Much appreciated!
@@hornady But hey, I'm going to build a 7PRC Ackely Improved with Weatherby length freebore. And I'll it the 7mm GOAT....
Les Bowman would not be impressed with the EldX bullets,they are trash on big game.
I was excited when I hear about the 28 Nosler but after doing my research I found out it was a little more then I was looking for. I also got excited when the 6.8 Western came out but did my research and found out it wasn’t quite as big of a deal like I was hoping for. But now that you guys have came out with the 7mm prc it is exactly what I am looking for not to hot and not to cold just right. I am looking forward to picking one of these up in my near future.
28nosler needs a heavy rifle or it knocks the crap out of u on recoil. Kinda defeating what it was intended for cause I’m not carrying a 10lbs-11lbs rifle around the mountains nor do I want that recoil in a light rifle. My 7mm wsm isn’t bad at all on recoil and the prc should be about the same as the wsm on recoil which makes it a dream to shoot
Goldilocks cartridge! 😂
Pretty much the 6.8 Western is just a Doctored up 270 WSM, which I can't even find brass for a relative who bought one. None of the factories are making ANY brass for the 6.8 that I know of, nor the 270 WSM. I barely found some ammo for him that I can reload.
I've always been more of a 7mm man than a 30 cal guy, and for decades I've wanted a modern case designed 7mm cartridge that could push a 180-190gr bullet 2800-2900fps out of a 24 inch barrel without leaving a third of the case empty. From what I can see this is the cartridge I've been waiting for! I love what you've done with the Creedmoors and PRCs, and you've got me thinking about switching my future custom 338 Lapua to a 300 PRC instead!
Thank you
I would like to ask Seth why the velocities on the box doesn’t match chronograph velocities?
As an American I feel obligated to say that 30 caliber is great (300 Blackout, 30-30, 308 Winchester, 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 300 PRC, 300 Norma Mag), but the 0.284" bullet just sits in that sweet spot intersection of great speed without a big pricey magnum action and a barrel of powder per round, moderate recoil, long high BC bullets, reasonable barrel life, and fantastic down range energy retention. The 7 PRC in Hodgdon's load data shows that out of a 24" barrel you can send a 195 gr Berger EOL (G1 BC = .755) at 2840 ft/s with 64 gr of Win StaBALL HD. That is hitting at 2000 ft-lbs at almost 600 yds, 1500 ft-lbs at just under 900 yds, and 1000 ft-lbs at over 1200 yds. The only thing holding you back at these ranges would be bullet performance based on speed. But many big jacketed high expansion bullets work well at lower speeds. If you want to shoot monolithics or bonded bullets go a little lighter and jack up the speed.
6.8 Western is the more efficient cartridge. For the 175g bullets, you have to add 11 percent more powder in the 7 PRC in order to gain a 4 percent increase in velocity over the 6.8 Western. I dare you to put out a 170g ELDX in a .277 cal. with a bc in the low .7's. Prove me wrong, I dare you. :)
This is entirely wrong but okay lol..
I personally never got on the 6.5 Creed bandwagon since my .270 outperforms it in the hunting realm. I am pretty stoked to step up the .270 to the 7PRC.
im in the same boat. just wating for my favorite manufacturer #bergara to get with the program
Clearly you guys are excited about this. Honestly, you should be. I know you guys work there and you're biased, HOWEVER, I think you really have something special here. I know I'm just one guy but, I didn't want to like this thing. I really didn't.
But, I think you guys solved all the right problems for the "Ethical" big game hunter. (Because under 1 second of flight time, you don't need any more than this. From an energy, arrival velocity, wind forgiveness (+ or - 3mph) standpoint)
And I REALLY appreciate that you guys freely admitted that you CAN outperform the 7PRC if you're willing to build a custom rifle with a custom reamer and handload to 70,000+psi with other cartridges. Because those of us that are experienced know, that's a fact.
But, and this is a big BUT, that you guys explained very well; you checked ALL the boxes: the twist rate is right, the freebore is right, the body diameter is nearly maximized, the high 90% case fill with the best temp stable powders on the market, the barrel life is adequate to incorporate practice or load development and practice(for the handloader), it's got SAAMI uniformity/standards, so it's ALWAYS done right... you have north of .340 G7 going 2950+ fps in a SHORT 24" barrel...AND, you squeezed it all into 3 & 340" cartridge overall length!
DAMN. That's all I can say. That's going to allow a TON of performance, in some really lightweight rifles to be built, unlike the big 300+ magnums that need 3 & 600+ magazines.
Again, I heard grumblings about this, and I REALLY didn't want to like it...but I do.
Well done gents.
One-half ten-thousands case head expansion is a good measure of early pressure signs. Mr. Speer discovered it.
I'm rather stoked about this cartridge. I'm a 7mm guy too. I noticed Winchester and Browning haven't picked up on this cartridge. That's because of 6.8 Western. From what I've seen this cartridge smokes the Western. I happen to have a Winchester model 70 All Weather SS in 7mm Rem mag. It looks like I'm going to do a re barrel.. I'm that guy who has the magnum, lives on the east coast hoping to hunt in a Western state. Truth be told Hornaday ammunition runs great in my rifle. It groups 1 MOA and better with Hornaday SST's 140gr and Eld-x 162grn. I think you all have a winner with 7mm PRC. Truth be told I never bought into the hype of the high BC bullets and anything new. Then again I don't get long range opportunities on deer back east. After educating myself and doing the research, maybe these folks are on to something.. After buying and shooting some Hornaday Precision Hunter ammunition I was impressed by the level of accuracy and consistency. Same can be said with the Custom Lites 140gr which emulate the 7x57mm and use those for deer and they shoot extremely well too. Hornaday has become my go to brand. I use the 160gr for hogs and black bear, hopefully I'll draw an elk tag in my state. We'll see what that does.
Much appreciated and good luck on that elk draw!
Love what Hornady is doing. From bore driver ELDX to this new 7 PRC. Cannot wait to get my hands on this new rifle.
I'm re-watching this video. I've never been a 7mm guy. Never had one. Always thought it was a good caliber, but I have enough stuff smaller and larger than 7mm that I just didn't feel the need for one. The 7mm PRC is trying to change my mind about that. Like I need to get one of these and it may replace about three other rifles I've been using and become an almost do-everything cartridge for me.
I was very excited hearing the early rumors of the 7 being a necked down 300 prc. Your explanation made sense as to being less dependent on a specific powder and easier consistency in the long term of production. Also I like that you guys are willing to acknowledge cartridges from other companies. I like hearing your genuine opinions on them.
It’s a longer necked 7mm saum or wsm basically to take the longer bullets without powder compaction and put in a long action so it feeds (what custom short mag guys have done for years) to hand load the longer bullets
Please issue a statement to address the velocities posted on Hornady 7prc box ammunition. This is what the 7prc cartridge is now becoming known for. Saying nothing and pretending your product is as advertised could potentially sink the reputation of Hornady, destroy the longevity of the 7prc cartridge and place a black mark on future Hornady product releases. A little transparency will go a long way with customers like myself that have dropped money on ammuntion and firearms that dont do as advertised. All you see in social media right now is how disappointed the average 7prc owner is with the inaccurate velocity data released by Hornady. If I had known what I know now I would have considered the 6.8 western. At 2800fps they appear to be neck and neck for performance. I'm hoping its just a powder shortage and that future supplies will be improved but the slience from Hornady is concerning.
When the 7mm PRC was first introduced, the velocity specifications were set using several high-performance propellants that were readily available at the time. As most of you are aware, there is a world-wide propellant shortage. As such, we’ve been forced to find alternative propellants. When choosing a substitute powder, we focus on accuracy, consistent ignition, and temperature stability. A new propellant option met our criteria and, more importantly, is available, however it often doesn’t achieve the original velocity specifications. With this reduction in velocity coupled with variation in chambers and barrels, it is possible to see 75-175 fps slower velocity from your rifle, than the velocity printed on the box. This alternative propellant solution does generate the consistency and accuracy we demand. Other substitutes did not meet those requirements; we prioritized accuracy over speed. Hornady has always encouraged shooters to test ammunition from their rifles to obtain accurate velocity data.
Due to the powder shortage, everyone in the ammunition manufacturing sector is faced with choosing between loading ammunition slower than originally specified, or simply not loading ammo at all. This temporary powder solution has allowed us to continue to produce and ship ammunition despite the powder availability concerns.
@hornady Thank you for your cander. This was as expected but provides myself and other consumers with confidence in the product, but more importantly, Hornady as a manufacturer and leader in the ammunition and firearm industry.
@@hornadyI hit you up on this on a couple of podcasts and you basically told me my gun was slow? Sometimes when I am teaching my grandchildren, they have a hard time embracing the truth. I have to tell them that being honest is a very important part of our family. It seems like the whole Hornady family needs to do some soul searching and see if honesty is going to be part of your family moving forward.
This is a bit of a black eye. It will probably heal but if you go back and watch this video, it’s got to be a bit embarrassing. Seth says he was disappointed when he found the details about the 28 Nosler…..I feel your pain bro. My 7 prc is not quite what was promised.
I've been looking forward to this cartridge being announced since the saami spec was filed. Hope to see Bergara offer the B-14 HMR in 7PRC! I hope to make this my dedicated solo long range hunting build for everything up to (maybe, if I draw a tag, moose)
Same here. Love that rifle and would love to see it offered in this caliber.
same come on #bergara. this would be awesome in mglite as well with a big muzzle break of course or a supressor. perfect elk gun
Just bought mine
Just starting pod cast, but you guys saved the best PRC for last! -The 7 PRC.
You get more bang for your buck with the .284. You guys made a great product with the 6.5 CR and rode it to annoying lengths.
So very glad you guys are finally doing this. But ammo will be an issue for a long time.
None the less great job!
Much appreciated - Thank you!
@@hornady do you guys know the expected barrel life?
@@jdg5682 did you listen to the podcast? They estimated it to have the same if not better than the 7mm rem mag. Roughly 1500-1800.
Ooh not the last they gonna drop that 338 PRC
well stamps it home for me i think, fierce ct rogue in 7mm prc it is!
My day has come. And oh my, I have an action or 2 on hand for a 7 PRC.
But I really enjoy the 30 cals too.
When he spoke on people in the southeast and mainly shooting whitetail but dreaming of a elk hunt in the future I felt like he was speaking directly to me. That’s the reason I will be purchasing one of these in the near future!
Me aswell all my hunting life have been 7mm guy, hunting with 7x64, very excited about 7PRC. Maybe you have some info when it will be available in factory rifles in europe? For example Tikka or Bergara?
It would be nice if you produced more of the 6.5 PRC and 300 PRC before you released a new cartridge that is also going to be hard to find
Publicly addressed the velocity issues also support the SAUM. They both have their place.
The 7X57 Mauser is the modern parent to all cartridges.
And they won't or have there hands tied for some marketing reasons to appeal to the the new 30 year old shooter to sell products. That's why you don't see classic cartridges that still work during deer and elk season. I haven't seen a new box from Hornady in years in a classic cartridge besides 30-06, 270, and 308. All they want to push on you is new is better. Why should I sell or quit using my 30-06, 7mm-08, 7x57, 8x57, or 450 marlin for a new 7mm PRC ? Are they telling me that my 7x57 won't cleanly and humanly take a deer or hog? Why can't I have that technology in research and construction for an older caliber?
@@woodstockrifles8215 I see your point and to an extent agree. But like in Sportman Warehouse, I watched and listened to a counter guy telling another customer it was ok to shoot 45 GAP in his 45 ACP. -what dumb ass! And it's just best to keep 7x57 ammo at low pressures to save face in older actions.
I love my 30-30 Ackely Improved with extra throat and my 30-06's. I firmly believe the 6.5 cals were over pushed with hype to make sales which i believe Hornady is guilty of. But i stil like them.
But in all fairness the 7 and 300 prc's are pretty top notch all the way around. The work and development they did is impressive. I have 7 Rem mags and a 300 win mag. So I won't get a 300 prc. But I can see my self getting 7 prc's.
Sound like you'd enjoy a custom classic.
But as far as being a consumer nation, buy buy buy culture, that's the USA for us. Like it or not. And I dont like it! It's not just this field or area either. It's all across the board of life .
I like wood stocks better, myself.
Jesus is King
Take care
@@woodstockrifles8215 One thing that bothers me is a lot of younger "gun" guys don't know who P.O. Ackely or Jack O'Conner was. Their time was. It's our time now, but we stand on their work.
Why not the 8x57?
@@borkwoof696 Honestly I don't know. That might be just a little older...
I’ve skipped over all the creedmoor and prc cartridges in favor of 308s and a 243. I’m jumping on a 7 prc.
Yeah, hard to resist. I'm ok with my 6.5 PRC for now and I have recoil sensitivity due to a right eye problem. I'm becoming a real fan of PRC in general. Pretty much custom level chambering and cartridges for the masses.
I wish you guys would show the products you talk about on screen along side the conversation, it would really add a lot of depth and understanding as to what your discussing.
Last week Scheels had lots of 7PRC, 4 types.
Love the 7mm prc it's awesome but still can't get 6mm arc brass up production please and thank you😁
Without a doubt, the 7 PRC looks right in terms of ballistics, but the real world advantage is efficiency and recoil. I would love to see some form of standardized recoil measurement. Calculations for recoil estimates are ok, but it is time to get some of those vast OEM resources put to work in order to demonstrate the "modern cartridge" advantages. Real lab data cuts through the fog of arbitrary debates and endless internet swirl. It is very difficult for most of us to arrange an apples to apples recoil test, but an OEM has the resources and motivation to make it happen.
Can't wait to give the 7 PRC a try. I hope the component situation with respect to availability will subside, especially with respect to good quality brass.
Save me an hour and answer me these questions?
1. Energy at 1000 yards?
2. Barrel life?
3. Recoil in an 8 lb rifle/10lb rifle and scope
It certainly sounds promising. Hornady makes good factory ammo.
That’s what I want to know and how does this compare to the 28Nosler
@@jacklavelle1716 less overbore, more efficient, not as "balls-out" high speed (but also not "slow"), but due to being throated for long bullets from the start it actually has a touch less drop at 1000 (I mean a touch, like 28nos is a hair over 6mils at 1000 and PRC is a hair under 6) like maybe 2-3 tenths difference.
It's a more modern and efficient 7mag that uses BC to do the work instead of pushing velocity.
It uses a few grains less powder than 7mag, but due to efficient case design achieves higher velocities with that smaller powder column. It's just doing what 7mag can do at the tip-top of its game out of a custom rifle with a factory rifle and ammo
180ELD-M at 2950~ish for PRC vs 2800~ish for 7mag.
You can get a 7mag with a longer throat and a faster twist and get pretty close to the PRC, but you're gonna burn a hair more powder to do it and have extra money invested in gunsmithing whereas the PRC is a factory setup that does the same thing (with probably a smidge of room to supe it up)
Big fan of the 0.284 dia. I believe it to be the ultimate sub 1500lb game bullet diameter.
With a plain ole 7mm Rem Mag, you can throw a bullet of bonded or tough construction, with a sectional density over 0.300 @ or just over 3000fps MV. Plus it will have manageable recoil.
Theoretically you can do that with any bullet diameter... But the 7mm is the biggest diameter you can do that with, without suffering at the bench.
.30cal is better than
I would like to see a 7mm cartridge that is shaped like the 7 PRC in case width, shoulder angle, and head height but fits in a short action receiver to compete with the 7mm-08. Now that would be a true jack of all trades rifle with longer barrel life.
7 prc is the new 30. 300 prc is the new 338.
Nope. You can’t do 220 gains with a 7mm PRC. Close, but no cigar.
@@falba1492 haha, yeah. Your right, I digress.
@@jamesmooney5348 Here is something most people don’t know. I shoot both a 300 Holland and Holland and a 338 WinMag. At 500 yards I have about 10% more velocity and energy from my 30 caliber, using a bullet that’s only 4.5% lighter. A bit recoil too. Also, the 300 Holland and Holland is a more efficient cartridge than the 300 PRC. You do get a bit more velocity out of the 300 PRC, but you have to do this with way more powder.
@@falba1492 cool. Interesting info. Yeah, it's fun stuff for sure.
7mm wizzum and saum does what the prc does. The prc really isn’t revolutionary. Only thing the prc does is mainstream really what a short fat cased 7mm can do performance wise when u stick it in a standard action so the wizzums would feed with the longer bullets. Guys have done it for two decades. Ballistic twin to a hand loaded wizzum with 175gr
If you guys can get the ammo on the shelves, oh my gosh! You guys are going to sell, sell, sell. This could be bigger then the 6.5 CM, and it really should be.
But really, I believe, a 7 Creedmoor would have worked very well.
All in with my Savage Ultralite 7mm PRC + Leupold VX5 HD 3-15x56 FireDot 👍❤️🇨🇦
Super excited about this cartridge. I just hope it gets better factory ammo support than the 300prc. I sold mine because I couldn’t get ammo or brass consistently. Even now that ammo is back on the shelf’s still don’t see any 300prc
Lots of 300 prc in my area, just expensive
I've been waiting for this cartridge since all the new/modern cartridges have been coming out. Me; Why don't they put all this new bullet/barrel technology in to a 7mm? It would be the perfect balance of weight, length, speed. This is my new hunting round. Thank you gentlemen.
Did Hornady actually require their employees to get covid shots?
The problem with the 300 PRC is, no one else is making ammo for it. A lot of companies are making 6.5 Creedmoor ammo.
I just bought a 300 win mag. I would rather have gotten a 300 PRC, but a lack of primers and off the shelf ammo stopped me...
Federal has had a 215 grain Berger in 300 prc goin 2850.
@@chadperry4021 ok. Good to know...thx
300 PRC ammo is under $50/box & readily available from multiple sources. Try "Ammoseek".
@@gsxr1189 Really! Thanks
The design of the 7 PRC bullet is perfect...now, put the premium powders in them to not underperform like they presently do out of every box right now... started buying Federal T.A
Sorry Hornady
44:40 exactly how a cartridge should be designed, from job back to rifle. I see so many people buying a rifle and trying to make for a job it isn't designed for.
Very well done with the PRCs. Nailed the needs of factory box buyers. Exciting!
I'm anxiously waiting on my 7 Prc to come in from the smith and as I wait I'm watching video after video. Will you guys please fix your posted/box/marketed velocity issue? I'm sure you see it, it's all anyone talks about. It's like a nasty black cloud hanging over the cartridge. Either fix the marketing or get the factory ammo up to what its claimed to be.
I am impressed. But I have 30-06 and it is doing all I ask of it in hunting. This could get me interested for a long range paper puncher. As I don't as a personal opinion like to see extreme long range shots on game , I do like to do bench rest with a hunting rifle. Bugera HMR ?
This is exciting, now I don't have to do a custom build faster twist 270 win or 7 rem mag. I can order a rifle that runs factory ammo now.
6.8 western exists and kicks less while putting a 165 grain bullet out at 3000 fps.
Pretty excited myself. Picked up a rem 700 long range in 7prc. Saving Penny's for a nice scope. Can't wait to put it through it's paces
Nice!!
I love my 7 PRC, but I challenge Hornady to find just one box with even 1 cartridge ( from a big box store-not handled)that can meet the 3000 ft/sec muzzle velocity from a24 inch barrel at sea level-as stated on the box. No one on the internet has found one yet. # Truth in advertising.
This is the first I’ve heard about the purpose of a cannelure being to remove copper deposits (at some cost in terms of ballistics).
Perhaps it’s too elementary but I would love to hear a discussion of crimp grooves vs. cannelures and what either one does to a bullet’s aerodynamics. Plus when and which bullets actually need to be crimped. If you want to put the cherry on top, discuss “small based” sizing dies. Hornady does make a LOT of bullets after all.
Did i hear the 6.5x300 mentioned? lol
In my neck of the woods, a guy by name of Joyce Hornady produced a 7mm bullet that killed that cartridge for long range hunting.
Were talking about roughly 1970.
162 gr BTHP match bullet with a BC of .725 in 7mm.
A few years later they changed the design slightly and the BC increased by about 100.
That bullet used with a 300 Wetherby case will produce velocities of 3400 fps plus.
The 7mm STW is pretty much the same.
The confirmed tragectory of the 162 as compared to a 180 Berger is flatter at 1200 yards.
And, very very few animals are killed even that far, let alone farther.
The heavy bullet talk is mostly BS in the real world unless the powder capacity is there as well.
And that rules out cartridges under 30 caliber.
Sales talk is all it amounts to.
I still have some of the high BC original 162s, as well as some of the second generation.
You can see the difference by placing them side by side.
As for use for hunting, Joyce Hornady before his tragic death said that all his bullets could be used for hunting.
I have killed lots of deer with them up to 1200 yards with the 7x300 Wetherby, and one black bear at 700 plus yards.
A 190 gr bullet is a far better bullet at 3300 than it is at 3000 or even less.
And that requires a 30 caliber.
No serious long range hunter today is using any 6.5 cartridge, and less and less are using 7mm.
But then your target market isnt serious long range hunters.
6 years ago, I rebarreled a 300WM Savage 116 to 7SAUM for 175gn LR competition; I soured on it though when I took it elk hunting and realized all of the wasted action length and weight wasn't ideal for hunting. I always liked the SAUM concept, but it wasn't designed for the 175's and longer in the short action.
Now the PRC comes out, and I see exactly what I was looking for in the 7SAUM- it will allow use of the 175's and be space efficient in a long action. Now I have to find a buyer for my SAUM barrel and loading dies.
Do you still have the loading dies?
I ended up going with the Seekins PH2 in 7PRC. . . Well I put money down on it for the shop to hold it. It should be showing up in 5 days. I'm not sure if I'll regret the 26" barrel. I've never had a barrel that long.
Not many can outshoot the old 257 Weatherby mag.
Brass boys.... another awesome cartridge and no supply. I've been waiting on 6ARC brass for over a year now..... come on!
Love everything you do for our sport, keep it up!
Much appreciated - We most definitely will!
Came here to say the same thing!
SHTF where you going to find brass. 308 hand loaded with 168 grain bonded boat tail soft point.
I love long range, been running hot 300WM loads with 190gr Hornady bullets with great success since the early 90's. Sadly the trends are changing and Game commissions are shutting things down. Started with the 6.5 Creed and has escalated. Now we have the new LR muzzleloaders too, so states are revamping regulations and banning optics, fiber optics, sabots etc. This will hit the rifle community soon as well. Instead of cartridge minimums we will have cartridge maximums as well. Already in the works.
Sounds like they're trying to do what's been done here in the UK. A lot of ranges have max muzzle energy 4,500J and max velocity limits. Very restricted, still possible to shoot but getting harder and more expensive.
7prc had my interest and now it has my attention
Yes please do a video on signs of pressure! Reloader, not wildcatter, stick to the Hornady manual but want to be more aware.
Noted!
I was an early adapter of the 6 ARC and love it. However not doing that again. This time I need to see more 7 PRC ammo on the shelves before I pull the trigger. Ball is in your court Hornady. If I have to wait 5 years I will.
I would like to think you guys have recommended that rifle makers build their version with a rifle with a magazine capacity big enough to take advantage of what you have designed to be able to utilise the long bullets you have want in your cartridge.
They did it again Hornady’s very own Jonny sins F ing my wallet again with the 7mm prc 😂
What the don’t tell you is that no rifle comes even close to 3000fps. I’ve had two savage rifles and 1 Bergara and none of them shot faster than 2820. I reached out to Hornady and was told “all rifles are different” so I guess I’m 0-3 with two different brands.
The posted box velocity is not accurate. Not for a 22 or even 24 inch barrel.
This is where I’m at with the 7prc. I have a custom 7 Rem Mag with a 28” 1:8 brux pushing 180s at 3000+~ Not much of a come up for a custom guy
Nice gun, if 7PRC wasn't on the horizon I'd be looking at a custom 7RM.
28" barrel hunting rifle. Lol
I am beyond excited for this cartridge. And can't wait to get my hands on a rilfe
Love my 7 mm WSM SAVAGE ALL WEATHER WARRIOR
Great podcast, Thank you for the great information. I have been excited to see this come the public.
Need to make the 6 PRC main stream
My question is will the faster twist barrels still stabilize the lighter bullets?
It just hit me, that this essentially could replace the .284 Shehane in F-Class open shooting… Right??
Xmass came early this year.
My 7mm Weatherby Mag has been tried and true for decades.
Dropped several bears on the first shot.
Whitetails are somewhat iffy using it.
If I am 300 yards or closer, it is too powerful to use due to the damage it causes.
But, anything past 300 yards seems to do less damage.
Hogs are a blast to shoot with it.
With this new 7mm PRC round, I can already think of several usable hunting scenarios
that could benefit from having such a round.
Of course, a guy would need to hit the range and discover its limits before going to the field.
I never got too excited on the 6.5's (yet) but with this, the 7prc, im on board! man I need this in my life.
I’ve got a 6.5 creedmoor, 6.5PRC, and a 7PRC and for me the 6.5PRC is my favorite of the bunch. Plenty of punch to kill even elk, and great for recreational shooting since it doesn’t beat you up. The 7PRC of course is a better choice for elk, but IMO the recoil is a bit much for recreational shooting if you want to hunt and target shoot with the same light to mid weight rifle.
6.8 western is my choice
My new Remington Model 700 in 7 rem mag came with a 1:8 twist and the magazine length has been increased to accommodate longer bullets, so I’m wondering why I would need a 7 prc.
You don’t.
Push Springfield to put it into their 2020.
Also bergara.
You don't have to have a "Custom rifle" to get a 1:8 twist. You can just order a barrel and DIY with an action wrench and a bench vice in about an hour or less. Then take it out and shoot in the .3s. Even Remington is now twisting their 7 mags in 1:8 in the 700 line. I know you guys are trying to sell ammo, While PRS folks and long-range steel clangors might want a 7 PRC, I just don't see any advantage since, in my opinion, Long range Hunting is unethical...unless I was starving in Alaska during a harsh winter, and desperate.
I now have a custom 18 inch 20 inch 24 and 26 7mm prc
Really interesting discussion, I feel like I learned a lot, thanks guys. Really sounds like you thought everything out with this one
Glad you enjoyed it!
I’ve been looking for the outfitter/160 grain CX cartridges. One online vendor said they were discontinued by Hornady. Is that the case? If so, why?
2nd question, if CX bullets / monolithic bullets preform better with velocity, why is the 160 gr CX not shooting faster than the 175 gr eld-x? Seems like it should be shooting a bit faster.
Hornady has 3 offerings in 7mm PRC.
Start printing the stuff off in cheap to plink with ammo like american gunner or frontier so it's on the shelves. Ammo on the shelves sells guns. I can find 7mm mag anywhere...
if I start seeing 7prc the same as I do 6.5 creed... I'll be all over it.
I want one in 20" super bad but gonna wait for ammo i don't have room/time to reload.
Ship to academy sports!!
I'm curious. I cut a Benchmark barrel down to 22" and with factory 175 ELDX ammo I was only getting 2870 for an average velocity. HOWEVER when I handloaded Reloder 26 to your published max I got almost the same velocity that's listed, mine was actually slightly higher at 3021. Why are so many barrels struggling to get that 3000' fps that's published on the box?
Good old 3006 with modern propellants dont need to shoot at elk past 4 or5hundred yards
What a great episode. I had been hearing about and seeing news about the 7 mm PRC. And I was excited. I did not get that excited about the 6 ARC or the 6.5 CM or 6.5 PRC or even the .300 PRC, as good as those cartridges are. One of my favorite RUclips channels is deermeatfordinner. And that guy, Rob, visits the Cree Nation in Canada and gets a moose at over 100 yards with his Howa 1500 and Burris Eliminator III scope shooting Hornady 6.5 CM ELD-X 143 grain. He brings the bull down in one shot. Count them, one.
My round has always been the .308 W and first season I went whitetail hunting, I took my Mossberg MVP LR 308 Thunder Ranch. The next few successive seasons, I took my TC Compass II in .308 sitting in an Oryx chassis. Even with the factory synthetic stock with not quite the favorite ammo for that gun, it shot .54 in spread (.516 MOA) on the first two shots. And the .308 is a fun gun and I used Pachmayr slip-on Decelerator pad and muzzle brakes to tame the recoil. I am a big guy with meat on the bones and recoil is still too much on some cartridges and we are gaining no points by enduring that.
In the eastern part of my state, the public hunting land is heavily forested and the max distances I have ranged so far are from 70 yards to approximately 225 yards. So, any 300 yard gun will do. And the best 308 round holds 1,000 ft-lbs to about 500 yards. A 1:12 twist barrel will last probably 5,000 shots before the dispersion increases past 1 MOA. Cheap gun, so any barrel replacement will work, though I would probably get a factory barrel since that one is so good, which ticks off the guys who spend 8 grand on a rig to get that.
The western part has drawn hunts for mule deer in the high plains, almost desert location. It's actually a small canyon. The state description for that hunt explains that it is compartment hunting. So, you get one zone you need to stay in so that hunters do not cross each other. Rugged camping (no fancy facilities.) Freezing conditions during winter. And be able to shoot at least 200 yards. Turns out that I cannot harvest a mule deer by putting salt on the tail. (My step-grandfather told me I could catch birds by putting salt on their tails. It was a few minutes before I realized the meaning of that statement.)
And, like others, I may mostly hunt whitetail and feral hog in the forest but I am still hoping for and entertaining the possibility of an elk hunt while I am still young enough to accomplish that (a bit over ten years to retirement.) So, that is what really makes the 7 PRC appealling to me. It is super overall cartridge to me. Heavy weight enough with perfect terminal ballistics and usable velocity and great accuracy is what I want and need. People talk about ethical shots.
If I have paid for an elk tag and shoot one down, have no fear, I am harvesting that animal. I paid too much to not do so. People want to define ethics by distance. In that case, I am the most ethical hunter by putting salt on the tail.
The ethical shot is where you and the rifle are capable of reliably hitting the PoA to create the amount of energy and damage to help the beast expire. That would be the heart and lung combo shot. More sure than the head shot. The brain is actually small and you could just severely maim the animal and he or she would suffer a long and starving death. A brachial axis shot can work and you waste some backstrap and it is also a small target behind some thick bone. But hit both heart and lungs and that animal will expire, even if not in the exact location of the shot. Also, I have seen an elk require more than one shot from a 7 RM. So, follow-up shots will be okay.
So, having the 7 PRC would be great because I can practice on this one gun for both short and quick shoulder shots braced on a tree in the woods to stalking and steadying for shooting past 300 yards and knowing with an ethical certainty that I will hit the PoA with the required energy. That is important, regardless of the actual distance. My .308 will shoot to a 1,000 yards. But off-hand after walking a bit is adding some wavering and I should shoot no farther than 50 yards, for example. So, the ethical off-hand for me with the .308 is a 50 yard shot.
With a managable recoil, I can practice, which is more important than the cost of the rifle. So, I have already bought a 7 PRC rifle and I am waiting on the chassis for it. Also, with the 24 inch barrel, that is going to bring me the speed that I need at a still usable length, because I have already put a muzzle brake on it.
I believe this will be the winner, winner, chicken dinner. With the .308 rifles, I have good enough factory ammo that I feel no need to hand load and it is plentiful and cheap.
The 7 mm PRC is more expensive. On the market, I got 100 rds at less than $5 per round. But now I am seriously considering hand-loading just to have availability at a reasonable cost. If it cost me, after the initial outlay for equipment, around that much per round, it will be worth it as long as I get powder and slugs. And yes, I will be hogging my own brass. At a public range, no more slam the bolt back and forth. Carefully eject and collect the case and keep it.
Although I am intrigued by long distance precision shooting and want to practice that, I am primarily a hunter. I expect 1 MOA out of the rifle.
I love my Remington 700 bdl custom deluxe 280 in a KRG xray chasis smooooooth lol but I'm running 175 grain projectile however I really love my 6mm arc fosho
7mm Dakota perfectly powerful... With a lot space to seat bullets out.
Thanks fellas, I just finished my 7rsaum because this didn't exist. Using long bullets with a Tikka long action to achieve best powder and bullets....... Now you've obsoletized my gun, lol.
My take on the 7mm prc…… let’s copy the saum and wizzum in a standard action (what custom 7mm short guys have done for 2decades) and market it commercially.
I don't think there was a need to bash the six eight western. It's nice to have an option that fits in a standard length action. Guess you dont want competition for the 6.6 prc???
Define modern?
Always remember that it's remaining energy at whatever distance you are shooting that's what really counts when shooting at big game animals. How much should it be 1500 ft pounds for elk?
338 PRC 225 gr @ 3400 fps mv, 200 gr at 3600 fps mv, 250 @3200 and 300 gr @ 3000.
How does recoil in the 7 PRC compares to the recoil in the 7 Rem Mag?
its more. they keep say "big .300" because it recoils like the .300 win mag.
I heard the Gunwerks guys say it was around 20% less.
would love to see a 338 PRC, 230/270gr, talk about a moose, bear, rifle....22-24" barrel. modern day 340 weatherby.
I can see my Remington 700 BDL in 7mm Mag getting a new barrel. Ammo has to be available on the shelf before I jump on this wagon
Yup, like that 🙌🏻
This is no wagon. This is going to be a freight train. You might as well do it. It's going to be good.
@hornady Any news on if Tikka is going to factory chamber for this anytime soon?
Try to make ammo and brass more available with this round than you have with 6mm ARC.
The one thing that I want to know (without listening to the entire podcast) is why not go for a faster twist? Twist rate is such a limiting factor, particularly when shooting copper, just bumping down to a 7 twist would help “future-proof” and allow for designs that are a bit longer and require faster twist. It always seems like the industry goes bare minimum on twist rate when it doesn’t feel like it needs to be a limitation. Modern bullets are unlikely to break apart from over spinning so you could just chamber everything in a twist rate that nobody needs to exceed (like a 5 twist) and not have to worry about it ever again.