I received a very nice rifle, as a gift, years ago. I wasn’t sure about the “new” cartridge. I didn’t even put a scope on it for over a year. I started feeling bad when the person who gave it to me asked about how I liked the rifle. So, I put a scope on it, and i literally couldn’t believe how easy it was to shoot well. It was almost like cheating. Now, I use it for almost everything except for where rimfire rifles are better suited. You all did a fantastic job with this cartridge.
I’ve been a .260 Remington fan for many years. Have had several custom rifles made. So when this new 6.5 came out I was intrigued, but thought “it’ll be a target cartridge and really won’t go anywhere.” When I finally got around to buying a rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor, it was a little Tikka. Bought a couple boxes of cartridges and took it to the range. The first group was 1/2” and just about everything I’ve shot since has been right there. Wonderfully balanced cartridge and perfect for the Tikka.
@@tbo2307 admittedly the 6.5x55 is faster but then again the 6.5-06 is faster than it. The problem is stuffing long heavy bullets in the Swede without getting either in the powder column or the oal being excessive for a 308 length action. Nobody is claiming the creedmoor is the best 6.5 on the market but I believe they're saying it's ONE of the best for the 308 length actions for a variety of applications & sales would agree with them.
After I bought my 6.5 everyone seemed to change to the 6mm, saying this or that was better. But I'm not one to chase trends. I waited quite a while before getting a 6.5CM. But when I decided I wanted a long distance target rifle (other than a 300WM), the 6.5 in either CM or PRC was the obvious choice, and I couldn't find any PRC ammo. And now I'm hearing 6mm barrels burn out a little quicker. I don't need a 220 Swift version! Very happy with my choice.
@@chipsawdust5816I don't really have a dog in this fight (I don't own a 6.5 or a 6 creedmoor) but for what the 6.5 is "good" at the 6 just seems like it's better. Better velocity, better (or at least VERY similar) BC, better recoil management, and the 6mm will kill up to large deer very well with good shot placement. I know 6.5 can kill elk and many people do it, but I like something just a little bigger, like car guys say "there's no replacement for displacement" if I can chuck a bigger heavier bullet at roughly the same speed I'm going to for elk, and for that matter I've seen a 6creed take elk at respectable distance (long range hunting group here on RUclips took a bull with his 6Creed at 495yds with pretty solid results) But for both of my "big boy" calibers I went with 7mm, I use a 7mm-08 AR10 and I'm waiting for either Tikka or Bergara to start making 7PRC rifles (realistically the 7-08 does what I need for hunting, but I want to get into long range shooting and the 7PRC looks like a mighty fine option for that without having to build a full custom rifle) People who have a 6.5 and hunt elk with it, great job, I'm not saying it's wrong, I just personally like something a little bigger than a 6.5. And with proper bullets the 7-08 is no slouch, using a 162gr bullet i can stay neck and neck with 6.5 creedmoor in terms of drop&drift and have a little bigger bullet too.
@@Kross8761 Fair enough. I don't hunt (except waterfowl), but if I were going for an elk I'd take my 300WM to be certain. Smaller calibers can do it, but the 30 caliber WILL do it. And the 300WM can reach out and touch things as far as a 6 or 6.5mm. The 7-08 is no slouch, you're certainly right about that. It's a great caliber for hunting just about anything. That's one I don't have but some of my hunting buddies do and they swear by it. Who am I to argue? :)
I have many rifles in a lot of calibers. Right now I am into the Creedmoors. 6.5, 25, and 6mm. The 25 creedmoor is my fav. With the berger 135 and the hornady 134 eldm, absolute perfection. But, the 6.5 started it all. The 25 is my fclass short range rifle. Longer heavier barrel. Thanks hornady for supporting the shooting community with innovation.
Don't forget the .22 Creed! 88gr ELD-M around 3100fps if I remember correctly. 70gr well over 3300fps. Awesome varmint and deer cartridge, with super low recoil and viable for PRS style matches too. I've heard rumours that it'll be factory offered in the not too distant future. Personally, the .25 is my favourite as well, but - because I only have a .308 - I want to get a 6mm Creed. Just a little easier than a .25 and expands my arsenal more than a 6.5 would, as it's so similar to the .308. Super awesome cartridge family, same as the PRCs
I’ve been a 25 caliber guy for many years. I’ve shot out a couple barrels on my Sako 25-06. The 25 Creedmoor indeed does look like it’s the sweet spot for this cartridge. I used to load the 25-06 blazing hot and take prairie dogs out to 500 yards. I can only imagine how much easier it would be with the VLD bullets out of the Creedmoor.
I waited a few years before buying a 6.5CM to see if would catch on, didn't want an orphan cartridge. Good for my east coast deer hunting and informal target shooting. Good job guys.
I once was at a bachelor party for my buddy Preston. Him and his buddies from Hornady (one guy being named Seth) were shooting their 6.5 cm rifles. Never heard of that round. Two weeks later I had a Bergara premier chambered in 6.5 cm. That gun makes it too easy.
Truly enjoy hearing from the engineers and ballisticians behind a cartridge and their adventures during the early development of it. I also hate to consider the amount of time and money that I've spent over the years chasing other classic cartridges to try to get them to perform like the Creedmoor does out of the box. You guys have certainly forced a lot of valuable hardware that was once considered great into the dark corners in the back of the safe. Only accurate rifles are interesting, and you guys have redefined the word.
I very much enjoyed this podcast for the history & evolution of the 6.5 Creedmoor as I am now retired from my tool & die work & have time to shoot. I therefore bought my first rifle ever, a production Bergara Premier HMR Pro 6.5 Creedmoor in 24". Matched w/ a Burris Veracity PH-4 6-20 x 50 scope & Hornady's Precision Hunter 143gr ELD-X & I'm in shooter's heaven. Thanks guys! FREE
Another great podcast. Nice to hear Tikka names there at the end. Never shot one that didn't shoot well. We have a couple Tikkas in 6.5 creed and they all shoot lights out with Hornady ammo in all flavors of 140 ELDM 147 ELDM and 143ELDX. Dropped several big critters with ELDMs . Excellent bullets . Thank you for another good listener podcast
I recently purchased my first 6.5 Creedmoor in a MPA build with an extra barrel and bolt in 6.5 PRC! I love the accuracy and easy recoil as I'm getting older! I have been a big 308 fan boy! But I think I have a new favorite!
Wow. What an excellent episode. Hearing the backstories of how these rounds were developed is just amazing from the guys who did it. I am a late adopter to the 6.5 Creedmoor, but I couldn't be happier with it. Pleasant to shoot, accurate, and handloading is easy. Looking forward to a .375 Ruger episode!
@@m6jd Brass isn't that bad if you buy it used. Bitterroot has it for 58 cents a piece, which is a little high for used, but Starline is around 46 cents each brand new at an order of 250. There's no way I'd sacrifice 243 brass to make 6.5. 243 is too hard to get used and you have to buy more factory ammo to get the brass. I'll say it's real nice to make CX rounds for 80 cents plus brass versus paying $2.00+ per factory round.
@@threefortyduster I bought a box of American Hunter ammo, 200 rounds, before I actually bought my 6.5RPR. It's Hornady brass. Then Lapua came out with some in stock, bought that too. Then Peterson had some, bought some of those. Can't make up my mind which is best!
Love hearing this story from a different perspective than Dennis’! He’s one of the more humble guys you’ll run into and getting him to talk in depth about it is certainly a struggle. Thanks fellas!
A great informative video. I am having a 6.5C being built at the moment in the UK for Palma shooting (we call it TR in the UK). This will be a long range calibre for me 800x - 1000x for barrel life with 223Rem for 300x - 600x. I wanted to move away from 308Win due to competition for cases and projectiles and 6.5C seemed perfect. Really looking forward to loading and reducing the recoil from 308!
I'm that guy, purchased a Ruger Precision Rifle in 2017, put a mark 5 on it, I was on a waiting list for the mark 5, tried different ammo, settled on the ELD M in 140 and was super impressed. Then I went on a reloading mission to do better, I remember telling my son, I need to do better than Hornady, lol. This got me back into shooting after some health issues. I told everyone I know, it's the best round, you need one and not a single person regretted it. It made me a better shooter. People who still don't know or are sticking to their guns, pun intended, get over it and get one. I own a plethora of rifles in all sorts of chambers and the 6.5CM and now the 6.5prc, if I could only have one it would be the creedmoor, if I could have two it would be the 6.5 CM and 6.5PRC, if it could be three it would be the 6CM, and so on...
I am learning so much from your podcasts. I'm a long time .308/7.62 shooter but I'm going to try 6.5 Creedmoor with Hornady ammo to push my shooting abilities further out.
I was a naysayer when this cartridge came out. I was a 243, 30-06 and 300winmag man. And I still am but I recently added the 6.5 CM and it is my new favorite rifle in the mix. Easy to reload load for and so comfortable to shout. I love the history behind it and how it happened. Great show.
Thank you for this video. I loved it. I purchased a 6.5 Creedmoor back in 2020. I got the Tikka T3x in a Cabela's special with a 24 inch barrel with a break. I shot an Elk last year 2023 it was only 230 yards away. I hand load and I found a hot load that is very accurate in my rifle.I use Superformance powder and I have chronograph it at over 3,000 fps. My son has the 6.5 PRC and mine is almost as fast as his. I shot it exactly where I wanted to hit the bull and it did the job. The bull just stood there like he wasn't hit. At first I thought I missed. He stood there for a few seconds and then started to walk back into the trees and it just fell over. My grandson had shot a nice bull 15 minutes before with a 270 and he shot it five times and it went down. Then mine walked out and one shot and it was over. It was a great time that I will never forget. Thank you so much for a great cartridge and for all of your work.
@Hornady, you guys just keep knocking it out of the park with these podcasts! Great work again, and keep them coming! I have enjoyed them all, but if you guys could find a way to keep doing them from time to time with Dave as well as Jeff Siewert, that’d be amazing!
Learned a lot here, thank you. Love - Hate relationship with Hornady… the 6 Arc markedly reduced access to 6.5 Grendel cartridges and although I’m brand loyal, the dollars and cents aspect of Hornady hurts an old man’s heart.
Thanks to Dave and Joe ! Always enjoy the podcast. My grandson is 7 years old and killed his first deer last year. Micro Midas 6.5 Cm at 157 yards and dropped a 7 point in his tracks.143 eldx
I got lucky by finding an RPR in 6.5CM with a nice scope and bipod for a great price early in 2018. I didn't really believe the store owner when he told me it only had half a box rounds through it if that, but the barrel did speed up quite a bit. He told me the original owner could not justify having such a setup and only being able to shoot it to 80 yards. I've only taken it to 400 yards so far, but I was shooting at a 4 inch diameter plate. I have three 308 rifles, but the 6.5CM has definitely made it's place.
In 2016 I was still college I saved just enough money to buy my first rifle for hunting and it was Savage model 10 predator hunter with 24 inch medium heavy barrel I put my old Leupold mark 4 4.5-14x50, I bought a few boxes of Hornady 140 Amax. I shot group after group well under a inch most under a 1/2 of a inch. A few days later I set up a 12x12 gong at 430 yards first time to ever shoot that far ever. Dialed my scope then easily centered punched that sucker. I am now a 6.5 creedmoor fan boy now and own 3 rifles in this caliber 2 bolt guns and a gas gun and now reload for all them. I always keep plenty of 140 ELDMs and ELDXs on the bench at all times.
Excellent episode, To some extent the 6.5 Creedmoor is a victim of its own, overwhelming success. I think the biggest reason there are Creedmoor haters is they go into a store and everything is 6.5 Creedmoor. 75% or better of rifles seem to be only that on the shelf, though not in the catalog. The stores are trying to make money so they stock what they know sells. I have had a 6.5 Creedmoor for years, shortly after Ruger started chambering it. My favorite rifle today, though eyeing a one of the new PRC's or the Western for when I need the extra legs, or likely both.
Sure!!!!!! . Id have to see that. From A fresh start and hitting at 1050 first shot. . I see 30year seasoned professionals that shoot every week. That can't do that every time. Especially outa a gas gun. I call bs.
@@REDNECKROOTS I was surprised too, amazing what is possible when you have good data from a Kestrel and 4D software. The group I was shooting with was just as surprised as I was
I was looking for a tack driving target rifle. I knew 6.5 Creedmoor was the cartridge. There were several offerings on the market; I went with the Ruger RPR. I almost for a Browning X-bolt in 6.5 PRC but ammo was SCARCE for that one. The 6.5CM was all over the place, and this was right at the start of the covid ammo crash. But I've prevailed, and this thing is sub-MOA all day long even on a bad day. If I do my part it's in the 0.3 grouping. Part of that is the rifle, part is the load (I do my own) and part of it is the shooter. But when they all come together, wow, it's damned fun to shoot.
Being a Swede, I really like the 6,5x55 Swedish for both practical but also patriotic reasons. But after enjoying this podcast with the creators of the Creedmoor, it is quite humbling to see the meticulous approach that went into the design and how it turned out. Might need to give it a try 😉
I was showing my 6.5CM to an air force kid last year and he really liked it, but said he'd just bought the 6.5 Swede and was going to stick with it :) It's a good round!
One of the largest Elk I've ever seen harvested was by a fifteen year old girl with a 6.5 Creedmoor. Just under 300 yards, excellent shot. The Elk did a 10 yard circle and tipped over.
i was the same. so were my friends. all coming from military backgrounds we were all about the 308. had a chance to shoot a 6.5CM and was shocked at the lower recoil and tight group without even trying. decided to get a cheap rifle, $400 range, and tey it out. bought a Ruger American and put a Vortex scope on it. that rifle has replaced my old trusty Remington 700 as my go to deer rifle.
I've had 6.5x55 Swed for years which is fab. The 1:8" twist that makes the magic happen. It gives me bullets up to 160gr which hit woodland stags hard. And then I have 123-140 gr for target use. And now the Yanks have 'discovered' it, with the attendent noise. Us Europeans have known that Herr Mauser was about 130yrs ahead of y'all. 😂
Yank here-you Europeans definitely pioneered modern cartridges. If you think about it, it’s amazing how little has actually been improved upon since the 6.5x55 and the 7x57 you’ve all been shooting since the 1890’s.
@flynnryder7798 Hi Flynn, yes, the 7x57 is good too, although I've never owned one myself. In 7mm, I went straight to 284Win Shehane (for FClass use)..... so 100% yank 😂
So I will admit right now that I was a little bit of a 6.5 creedmoor hater or more of a sceptic. I love 308 always have and still do but when I got my first 6.5 creedmoor I loved it just for the fact that it was so easy to load for. 308 it's nice but it's way more picky with bullet choice and powder choice. I have put three different powders and six different bullets through my creedmoor and all of them shoot around ½ MOA even during a powder test the groups are under 1 MOA. I still think 308 is a better caliber to train with because it doesn't Buck the wind as good but if I want to shoot cloverleaf groups I pick my 6.5 creedmoor. I am testing and doing load development for the 142gn SMK BTHP right now on my channel
I’ve hunted in Hawaii with a 300 WM for the last 25 years. The recoil and noise of the 300 WM is not as cool as it used to be. I have transitioned to the 6.5 CM and LOVE IT! The only regret I have is that I should’ve switched a long time ago. My 300 WM is now relegated to back of my gun safe. All hail the 6.5 CM! 🙌🏼
I love the 300WM, have two rifles in that caliber. But if I want to shoot more than 10 rounds a day, the 6.5CM is my go-to. I've actually been thinking about selling or trading in one of my 300s to get another 6.5, as my RPR is a bit hefty to carry around in the woods :)
It's great to hear the inventors of the cartridge dispell some of the myths and capabilities. The only question I had left was the elk hunting one. But it Sounds like the extra size and power of previous cartridges were meant to make up for less than super precision. When you can get sub MOA out of a hunting rifle/round and place it exactly where it will drop it dead, then why would you need anything else for average North American game?
The 6.5 Creedmoor. It does it all for me. From killing game out to just over 900 yds to impacting tgts out to 2300 yds. I’m on my 5th Creedmoor barrel and learning more about this cartridge all of the time. Being supersonic to 1400 yds it outclasses the awesome 308 win which is supersonic to about 800 yds on a good day. I still absolutely love the 308 win. Great content!!!!
@@CallOFDutyMVP666 the 175 smk at 2600 fps goes trans around 870 yds. At 70 degrees and with a station pressure of 28.50 in/hg. The 168 smk is a little closer to 800 yds I guess. I miss spoke, sorry.
@@K-bob_45 that’s interesting!! What bullet, speed and environment please, I’d like to copy the recipe of your factory load. Or are you just being sarcastic ?Any info on your factory load will honestly be appreciated!! Thanks!!!
@@wvlongshooter3912 factory berger gold medal match 185’s. This ammo clocks 2620 from my barrel. My elevation is 500 ft ASL, baro was 30 and temp was ~90. 14.1 mils was dead on at 1200
For me the hate comes from 2 things: 1) very vocal people who DRAMATICALLY exaggerate (and/or misunderstand) the capabilities of the 6.5 creedmoor 2) people like me worked hard to get their prized rifle shooting as well as the 6.5 does in $400 rifles out of the box and struggled to accept that we wasted our time/money and efficiency really is king.
I love Hornady 6.5 CM ammo in my S&W Performance Center AR-10. And my rifle thanks you too! A much better level of performance than I ever expected! “Excellence” is an under statement!
I have 2 suggestions. I think the 7mms are going to take off in part due to the 6.5 and 7mm prc. I’d like a 7mm Grendel and a 7mm using the 6.5 prc case. A bumped up 708 without being a magnum strength 7mm prc.
Yep… 175 grain Eldx going 2600 fps at the muzzle still has 1500 ft/lbs at 500 yards. A 2.5 MOA shooter in field conditions can still miss the wind call by 5 miles per hour and still hit a 20 inch circle at 500.
I'm soo tired of the 6.5 creedmoor haters! It is what it is, and its great at what its for. Its a wonderful general purpose cartridge! Is it an elephant gun? Probably not. Are you ever gonna hunt elephants? Probably not. Is it an elk cartridge a 9000 yards? Probably not. Do you have any business shooting at an elk at 90000 yards? Probably not. Its an excellent hunting cartridge for a short action and at reasonable ranges. Its an excellent cartridge for a short action for plinkin targets at long range. It can't do EVERYTHING, but its damn good at what it does!
I made the biggest mistake ever and sold my .243, i could hit anything anywhere with that little tack driver. But a friend needed something for her kid to get into hunting and i had the perfect setup. I've filled multiple freezers with that little rifle. So I'm sitting here doing research on what my next freezer filler will be and i was pretty set on the Creedmoor, until now. I'm getting ready to head to town to go find one. Ruger is about an hour ish from my driveway so they're a frontrunner, plus I've been shooting their products for over 30 years, I've had much success with Savage as well. The first rifle i bought with my own money was a Savage when i was 15 years old. Only because the Ruger was $45 more and i couldn't wait 2 weeks hahaha. Thank you Hornady 😎
I have two 6.5’s. One is a .264 WM I built on a Ruger #1 action, the other is a Sig Cross in 6.5 Creedmoor. I load 143 ELDX in the .264. I shoot the Outfitter line of ammunition in the Sig, and will be loading CX’s and ELDX’s once I have enough brass. I’ve shot everything from gophers to moose with Hornady bullets. They have been my go to for 40 years.
I’ll admit I got acceptable results with factory ammo, but my RPR shoots under 1/2 MOA with 6.5 Creedmoor hand loads. Guys at matches roll their eyes at my “budget junk” and have no idea.
I wish I could like this comment a few times. I don't participate in any matches yet, but my 6.5CM RPR with my handloads has either surprised or upset a few shooters at the range
Same here - I just can't figure out which is my favorite load as there are so many choices. I really like the Nosler 140 custom but they've become hard to find. The ELDM is here and there, in 140 and 147 - can't find a box of 143s to try out. Barnes Match Burners have been decent, and Berger 130 VLDs are great but spendy and again, hard to find. Not really taken with the Sierra 120s though, for my rifle. But - like you, I get sub-MOA all the time with any of them. First world problems....
I've got a savage axis in a Boyd's at one stock have over 4000 rounds through the factory barrel and still shoots moa. Have shot. .375 inch groups before I finally shot it out. Would still drop meat out to 300 without a thought
The timing, Perfected brass, Perfected bullets, at the time, the perfection of the semi auto magazine. Many people were ahead of their time. This came out perfectly. It mimics 6.5x55 performance, which means it's capable of taking anything in North America. Soft, easy to shoot, easy to load. Its literally the 30-30 recoil, meets 25-06 velocity with 100-120gr, 160gr looong bullets, for bigger game, reliably feed in an AR10...
I seem to like to 6.5 more every time I shoot it. I had trouble with my Remington 721 trigger and use my boys Savage Axis 6.5 Creedmoor on a real nice 9-point this year dropped it right 175 yards was very impressed
Just getting into the 6.5 game. Started out with a 6.5 Grendel 20" AR-15 build my youngest son was the real push for me to actually build an AR-10 he built a .224 Valkyrie all on his own. He chose the cartridge, barrel, handguard basically the majority of the components, I just supplied a completed 80% lower that was possibly not extremely well machined. That's the coolest thing ever, here I am a certified gunsmith since 2002 and I'd never built an actual AR platform rifle. Considering I spent 11 years under the thumb if the US Navy and shot the Hell out of some slick weapons in conjunction with NSW and in the fleet, IBU/MIUWU inshore security units. My son did the Valkyrie, slapped together a .308 AR-10 is currently building a .300 Blackout pistol. Since he lit that fire I'm waiste deep in multiple lightweight 16" 5.56 uppers, multiple complete lowers. Now I'm doing 9mm Colt style, one AR-10 .308 (upper is long completed just need to complete the 80% lower for that one.) I've already decided to just build a 6.5 Creedmore AR-10 so I have already gotten the upper and barrel, just going to grab up everything else after I finally make space to actually lock them away😂
I recently used my creedmore to shoot at a clay bird on a dead tree about 400 yards I forgot that my scope wasn’t ffp. I was rested on a four wheeler seat and couldn’t figure out why I wasn’t hitting with my hold over. I started with the scope fully magnified 5 shots then half magnified 5 shots. When I checked my groups both were under 3 inches the first was under by 4 inches the second was over by one inch. I walked away with confidence that if it was a deer I was in the kill zone.
What ever happened to the .300RCM? That was my fav deer round when it was available for that short time years ago. Then it just disappeared. I never understood why. Its awesome.
I have three 6.5 Creedmoor rifles. The Thompson Center LLR long range rifle. The Thompson Center compass and the PSA AR-10 6.5 Creedmoor. I shoot Hornady ammo. Now I reload all that Hornady brass with Hornady bullets. I have around a thousand rounds of ELD-X 143 and ELD-MATCH 147 round with a BC of .697. I love shooting that 147 grain bullet.
And a follow up: I'm in Australia, and as such your website prevents me from creating a Hornady account. Because of this I cannot sign into your apps correctly as I need a Hornady account to do so. Is it possible to open this up to more than USA and Canada.
First was 6.5 × 55 then 264 win then 6.5 300 wb and now 6.5 Creedmoor and I have all four of them. It has always been a great caliber. Glad the Creedmoor brought to the mainstream.
I think that a major problem with the 30 TC was the SAAMI max OAL of 2.66". I like the cartridge, but know that it is not worth the trouble of getting one. Although long-ogive .308" bullets were not common at the time, the decision to limit the official OAL to well below the normal 2.8" to 2.86" available in virtually every short action means that it is unlikely that factory ammo that takes full advantage of the short case will ever be available.
Great hearing the history from the brainchild's. Anther advantage of the 6.5CR is the availability of small primer brass. Large rifle primers are unobtanium in my area, but I can still get the SRP's. This has allowed me to be able to still shoot my 6.5..
I used to be one of those Creedmoor haters, then I was fortunate to win a precision rifle chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor. Now I really love the cartridge it ticks all the boxes for me, low recoil, excellent accuracy even at long range and easy to reload for. Now if only I could find a decent supply of primers.
I even had a 6.5 CM 5R barrel put in my Scar 17. My new neck down caliber rifle using similar principles of 6.5 CM is my new Barrett 416 model 99 which is a necked down 50 BMG and it shoots flatter and farther un phased by wind. 😎
Why do Americans get looked at like we cant shoot. I hear that all the time. We are the one country that allows its people to literally have piles n piles of ammo n rifles in our possession. Americans shoot more then any ither country. It only makes sense to me that practice make perfect and us Americans practice alot. Think thats a label that was given outa jealousy, and envy of our way of Life.
A friend of mine accepted a deputy position in rural Wyoming a few years back. He was a cop for 11 years and an 8 year old kid gave him pointers at the range that improved his shooting.
Creedmoor haters are usually ridiculous. It has so many things going for it and as long as you keep it in it’s lane, it will never be a problem. 1000+ yard target rifle✅ 500 yards and in on deer sized game✅ Low recoil✅ Affordable high quality ammo that’s easy to find✅ Tons of rifle options readily available on the shelves✅
The thorn is that 308 does those exact same things nearly as well in case of target shooting, and arguably better in the case of hunting. I completely understand why 6.5 cm took off in competition circles, but the rest is just a result of marketing
@@K-bob_45 depending on your bullet 6.5 will have lower recoil than 308 and 6.5 is designed to push higher BC bullets. That’s why some people prefer it. 308 has better hunting bullet options because of its ability to go heavier. But the fact that they are similar has nothing to do with what 6.5 can do. It’s capabilities are what they are and it does a lot of things really well.
@@masone4589 “the fact they are similar has nothing to do with what it can do”. Yes actually it does and that’s the point. Going from 308 to 6.5 creedmoor is like having a 1/2 ton pickup and just getting another 1/2 ton. They aren’t far enough apart to warrant jumping from one to another UNLESS you are on the clock in a competition setting. Outside of that there is virtually no difference in capability
@@K-bob_45 I would disagree I think there is a difference at distance but that’s not what I meant. 6.5 has it merits and people hating on it is mostly just old guys that don’t like change. If you don’t want to change to it that’s fine but it doesn’t make it less capable.
@@masone4589 the only tangible advantage as far as I can tell is reduced recoil. If you put a modern bullet in the 308 the hit probability disparity gets much, much smaller and retained energy favors 308 the whole way. Again, for competitions I totally get it. For anything not on the clock I wouldn’t trade a 308 for a 6.5cm, especially if I already had a nice 308
I have a 6.5 cm. I also have a 308. What I would like Hornady to do , is make more bullet weights available for the 6.5 cm. . A 180 gr. Would be nice, even in a ballistic tip or sst. Also , please continue making the RN in 160 gr. . I use that for a condition round with effect. I do reload. I do use your book as well as cross referencing from other reloading books. Thank you Thank you.
I got my mossberg patriot in 6.5 Creedmoor for my girlfriend to be able to hunt with me. That rifle shoots such small groups with factory ammo that you wouldn't believe me if I told you the numbers
It sounds like Dennis DeMille was looking for a 6ARC with a .308 bolt face (~6BR Norma). I've seen a 6 Creed at an XTC match once and never a 6.5CM. I've also never seen a factory rifle chambered in 6.5CM that would work in XTC, Midrange prone, or Long range prone. The Tikka T3x Sporter is the closest but has its faults.
For as long as they made scopes, I bought Nikon. They're better in every way; than everything that was double the price. I still have every one I bought and still use them every year. I picked up a few more rifles in the past few years and they've been sitting in the safe. I decided to go ahead and get some glass for a couple of them, so I started looking. I decided to stay under a grand for the safe queens but wanted to be able to take them to the range, now and then. I have looked at (physically) at basically everything under a thousand, with a 50mm or larger objective and high magnification. Arken won, hands down. I bought two Ep5's. They are incredible for a scope, under a grand. I was on the fence for a few days because I really liked the features of the Burris Eliminator 3 and I found them in a couple of places on the web, for well below MSRP. Ultimately I chose Arken because I don't want to risk buying the Burris and having it turn into a paperweight. I also want to support fellow service men and women who are trying to carve out their piece of the pie. 🤙
I think the problem was that so many people that say how good the 6.5mm could be went with 260 Rem it never got any love by the gun writers or the internet experts. So when the 6.5 Creedmoor came along it felt like a cheap attempt to pull the rug out from under the 260 Rem. Same thing with the 6mm ARC versus the cult culture that had been necking the 6.5 Grendel down to 6mm. Add into that all of the proprietary cartridges that had been released by everyone else that just went no place and did not stick around! So from a consumer stand point a lot of us where jaded myself included.
I have been told that the 6.5CM is superior to the .243 because the barrel life is so much longer and that a .243 will be “shot out” after 1000 rounds. What can I do to extend the life of my .243 barrel? Granted, if/when I have to re-barrel, the new one will be probably be in 6.5CM.
You guys at Hornady should make a commercial offering of 223 loaded with 80gr ELDm bullets that have an OAL that will work with a Wylde chamber. Federal has loaded ammo like that, not sure why you don't offer that.
That’s an extremely niche request. There are only a few dozen people in the world who would maybe even consider that. John Holliger designed that chamber for NM competition so they can single load for the long range at the sacrifice of fitting in a magazine. Most people on the internet don’t understand that chamber. It is great for what it’s designed to do, but it’s not the magic solution so many blogs present.
@@jtmcfarland3512 John Holliger did no such thing. Bill Wylde designed that chamber in the early 80s to improve the accuracy of Canadian M855 ball ammunition that was issued to competitors in their matches. Asking Hornady to support a sport that has thousands of participants is no more niche, than custom designing a cartridge for Dennis DeMille. By their own admission on the podcast, 6.5 Creedmoor was an overnight success that took 10 years. There are 10K + classified high power shooters, most of which shoot Service Rifle with Wylde chambered rifles. Heck the National Trophy matches had almost 900 shooters that traveled to Camp Perry to participate, all with AR style rifles.
@@bpm990d Sorry. IDK how I got the name wrong, but I stand by the rest of what I said. Certain aspects of the chamber could improve M193 (M855 is a joke for accuracy), but not optimize it. The main purpose was to squeeze the best performance out of the longer range targets. Most of the real top competitors handload. Different reamer companies have different machine tolerances and an off-the-shelf offering is going to be more sacrifice than the vast majority is willing to make. It’s not a quality issue. Hornady makes great stuff. It’s a tolerance stacking issue when mass marketing for universal compatibility. It’s not gonna happen.
@@jtmcfarland3512 The only dimension that would be off for the SAAMI spec would be the OAL. I know what tolerance stacking is, but I have no idea how that relates to this discussion. Are you saying that different reamer manufacturers offer 223 Wylde chambers with slightly different dimensions? If so that's no different than literally all other SAAMI reamers. They all have a tolerance, yet commercial ammunition seems to be available for them. Like I said, Federal & others have offered loaded ammunition with 80+ gr. projectiles. Would be nice if Hornady would support the largest center fire rifle sport in the US.
@@bpm990d 223 Wylde is not a SAAMI accepted cartridge (another reason Hornady is very unlikely to produce it) which means reamers can vary much more than SAAMI min/max. There’s also wear on individual reamers and dies as they get used barrel after barrel and round after round. Within each manufacturer, you’ll have their own acceptable tolerances, then add in other maker… you get the point. For competition like “steel challenge” there’s much more acceptable error. For something like NM or F-class, you’re much better off loading your own rounds like all the other top shooters. Queue rabbit hole.
I’m now using a 450 bushmaster and the subsonic Ammo y’all have is accurate up to 25 yards. After that it’s all over the place. Luckily my hunting is close range. Can you please try harder to get more accurate with these after 25 yards please? I use these for hunting deer. I had to sell my 300 BO because the subsonic Ammo was not killing the deer. Thank you
This is more of a history channel than a podcast and I love it. These stories need to be recorded and told like this
Imagine the knowledge that would have been preserved if podcast style recordings started in, say, 1950!
I received a very nice rifle, as a gift, years ago. I wasn’t sure about the “new” cartridge. I didn’t even put a scope on it for over a year. I started feeling bad when the person who gave it to me asked about how I liked the rifle. So, I put a scope on it, and i literally couldn’t believe how easy it was to shoot well. It was almost like cheating. Now, I use it for almost everything except for where rimfire rifles are better suited. You all did a fantastic job with this cartridge.
Thank you!
I’ve been a .260 Remington fan for many years. Have had several custom rifles made. So when this new 6.5 came out I was intrigued, but thought “it’ll be a target cartridge and really won’t go anywhere.”
When I finally got around to buying a rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor, it was a little Tikka. Bought a couple boxes of cartridges and took it to the range. The first group was 1/2” and just about everything I’ve shot since has been right there. Wonderfully balanced cartridge and perfect for the Tikka.
Thank you Hornady. Thanks to the 6.5 creedmoor we have even more excellent bullets for the 6,5x55. 😊🎉
.25 .277 calibers would need the same journey 👍
🇦🇺😎👍Go the .264 6.5x55se the true winner🏁🏁🏁🏁🏁🏁🏁🏁
@@bigtrev761 the name is just 6,5x55 the «se» is made up by CIP, neither Norway nor Sweden is part of that dubious organization.
@@bigtrev761I agree. The 264 case is perfect. Not too much and not to little
@@tbo2307 admittedly the 6.5x55 is faster but then again the 6.5-06 is faster than it. The problem is stuffing long heavy bullets in the Swede without getting either in the powder column or the oal being excessive for a 308 length action. Nobody is claiming the creedmoor is the best 6.5 on the market but I believe they're saying it's ONE of the best for the 308 length actions for a variety of applications & sales would agree with them.
One of if not the best cartridges to come out since the .308 or 30-06. Now there’s the 6mm variants but as a do all rifle I love a 6.5 Creedmore
After I bought my 6.5 everyone seemed to change to the 6mm, saying this or that was better. But I'm not one to chase trends. I waited quite a while before getting a 6.5CM. But when I decided I wanted a long distance target rifle (other than a 300WM), the 6.5 in either CM or PRC was the obvious choice, and I couldn't find any PRC ammo. And now I'm hearing 6mm barrels burn out a little quicker. I don't need a 220 Swift version! Very happy with my choice.
@@chipsawdust5816I don't really have a dog in this fight (I don't own a 6.5 or a 6 creedmoor) but for what the 6.5 is "good" at the 6 just seems like it's better.
Better velocity, better (or at least VERY similar) BC, better recoil management, and the 6mm will kill up to large deer very well with good shot placement.
I know 6.5 can kill elk and many people do it, but I like something just a little bigger, like car guys say "there's no replacement for displacement" if I can chuck a bigger heavier bullet at roughly the same speed I'm going to for elk, and for that matter I've seen a 6creed take elk at respectable distance (long range hunting group here on RUclips took a bull with his 6Creed at 495yds with pretty solid results)
But for both of my "big boy" calibers I went with 7mm, I use a 7mm-08 AR10 and I'm waiting for either Tikka or Bergara to start making 7PRC rifles (realistically the 7-08 does what I need for hunting, but I want to get into long range shooting and the 7PRC looks like a mighty fine option for that without having to build a full custom rifle)
People who have a 6.5 and hunt elk with it, great job, I'm not saying it's wrong, I just personally like something a little bigger than a 6.5. And with proper bullets the 7-08 is no slouch, using a 162gr bullet i can stay neck and neck with 6.5 creedmoor in terms of drop&drift and have a little bigger bullet too.
@@Kross8761 Fair enough. I don't hunt (except waterfowl), but if I were going for an elk I'd take my 300WM to be certain. Smaller calibers can do it, but the 30 caliber WILL do it. And the 300WM can reach out and touch things as far as a 6 or 6.5mm.
The 7-08 is no slouch, you're certainly right about that. It's a great caliber for hunting just about anything. That's one I don't have but some of my hunting buddies do and they swear by it. Who am I to argue? :)
Between 17 HMR and the Creedmore this man changed the industry
I have many rifles in a lot of calibers. Right now I am into the Creedmoors. 6.5, 25, and 6mm. The 25 creedmoor is my fav. With the berger 135 and the hornady 134 eldm, absolute perfection. But, the 6.5 started it all. The 25 is my fclass short range rifle. Longer heavier barrel. Thanks hornady for supporting the shooting community with innovation.
Don't forget the .22 Creed! 88gr ELD-M around 3100fps if I remember correctly. 70gr well over 3300fps. Awesome varmint and deer cartridge, with super low recoil and viable for PRS style matches too. I've heard rumours that it'll be factory offered in the not too distant future.
Personally, the .25 is my favourite as well, but - because I only have a .308 - I want to get a 6mm Creed. Just a little easier than a .25 and expands my arsenal more than a 6.5 would, as it's so similar to the .308. Super awesome cartridge family, same as the PRCs
I’ve been a 25 caliber guy for many years. I’ve shot out a couple barrels on my Sako 25-06. The 25 Creedmoor indeed does look like it’s the sweet spot for this cartridge. I used to load the 25-06 blazing hot and take prairie dogs out to 500 yards. I can only imagine how much easier it would be with the VLD bullets out of the Creedmoor.
I waited a few years before buying a 6.5CM to see if would catch on, didn't want an orphan cartridge. Good for my east coast deer hunting and informal target shooting. Good job guys.
I once was at a bachelor party for my buddy Preston. Him and his buddies from Hornady (one guy being named Seth) were shooting their 6.5 cm rifles. Never heard of that round. Two weeks later I had a Bergara premier chambered in 6.5 cm. That gun makes it too easy.
mm...
Truly enjoy hearing from the engineers and ballisticians behind a cartridge and their adventures during the early development of it. I also hate to consider the amount of time and money that I've spent over the years chasing other classic cartridges to try to get them to perform like the Creedmoor does out of the box. You guys have certainly forced a lot of valuable hardware that was once considered great into the dark corners in the back of the safe. Only accurate rifles are interesting, and you guys have redefined the word.
I very much enjoyed this podcast for the history & evolution of the 6.5 Creedmoor as I am now retired from my tool & die work & have time to shoot. I therefore bought my first rifle ever, a production Bergara Premier HMR Pro 6.5 Creedmoor in 24". Matched w/ a Burris Veracity PH-4 6-20 x 50 scope & Hornady's Precision Hunter 143gr ELD-X & I'm in shooter's heaven. Thanks guys!
FREE
Another great podcast. Nice to hear Tikka names there at the end. Never shot one that didn't shoot well. We have a couple Tikkas in 6.5 creed and they all shoot lights out with Hornady ammo in all flavors of 140 ELDM 147 ELDM and 143ELDX. Dropped several big critters with ELDMs . Excellent bullets .
Thank you for another good listener podcast
I recently purchased my first 6.5 Creedmoor in a MPA build with an extra barrel and bolt in 6.5 PRC! I love the accuracy and easy recoil as I'm getting older! I have been a big 308 fan boy! But I think I have a new favorite!
Just bought my first 6.5CM. 2 deer down the day after i fitted the scope. Love it.
That is awesome!
Wow. What an excellent episode. Hearing the backstories of how these rounds were developed is just amazing from the guys who did it. I am a late adopter to the 6.5 Creedmoor, but I couldn't be happier with it. Pleasant to shoot, accurate, and handloading is easy.
Looking forward to a .375 Ruger episode!
Reloading is easy unless your a broke ass like me and you have to make brass out of 243 and 308.
@@m6jd Brass isn't that bad if you buy it used. Bitterroot has it for 58 cents a piece, which is a little high for used, but Starline is around 46 cents each brand new at an order of 250. There's no way I'd sacrifice 243 brass to make 6.5. 243 is too hard to get used and you have to buy more factory ammo to get the brass.
I'll say it's real nice to make CX rounds for 80 cents plus brass versus paying $2.00+ per factory round.
@@threefortyduster I bought a box of American Hunter ammo, 200 rounds, before I actually bought my 6.5RPR. It's Hornady brass. Then Lapua came out with some in stock, bought that too. Then Peterson had some, bought some of those. Can't make up my mind which is best!
Love hearing this story from a different perspective than Dennis’! He’s one of the more humble guys you’ll run into and getting him to talk in depth about it is certainly a struggle. Thanks fellas!
Glad you enjoyed it!
A great informative video. I am having a 6.5C being built at the moment in the UK for Palma shooting (we call it TR in the UK). This will be a long range calibre for me 800x - 1000x for barrel life with 223Rem for 300x - 600x. I wanted to move away from 308Win due to competition for cases and projectiles and 6.5C seemed perfect. Really looking forward to loading and reducing the recoil from 308!
I really want to hear your thoughts on 6.5 grendel and what is possible with the round. Also how long do you think the round will be around?
I'm that guy, purchased a Ruger Precision Rifle in 2017, put a mark 5 on it, I was on a waiting list for the mark 5, tried different ammo, settled on the ELD M in 140 and was super impressed. Then I went on a reloading mission to do better, I remember telling my son, I need to do better than Hornady, lol. This got me back into shooting after some health issues. I told everyone I know, it's the best round, you need one and not a single person regretted it. It made me a better shooter. People who still don't know or are sticking to their guns, pun intended, get over it and get one. I own a plethora of rifles in all sorts of chambers and the 6.5CM and now the 6.5prc, if I could only have one it would be the creedmoor, if I could have two it would be the 6.5 CM and 6.5PRC, if it could be three it would be the 6CM, and so on...
One of my favorite cartridges to shoot and reload for
Heck yeah
I love loading and shooting the 6.5 Creed, 143 ELDx over Superformance is my go-to for poking far away paper and dinging steel.
I am learning so much from your podcasts. I'm a long time .308/7.62 shooter but I'm going to try 6.5 Creedmoor with Hornady ammo to push my shooting abilities further out.
6.8creedmore? Huh?
After mostly using either 308. or 30-06 bolt actions handed to me by my peers I decided to purchase a Howa in 6.5. Cannot wait to try it out!
I was a naysayer when this cartridge came out. I was a 243, 30-06 and 300winmag man. And I still am but I recently added the 6.5 CM and it is my new favorite rifle in the mix. Easy to reload load for and so comfortable to shout. I love the history behind it and how it happened. Great show.
Thank you for this video. I loved it. I purchased a 6.5 Creedmoor back in 2020. I got the Tikka T3x in a Cabela's special with a 24 inch barrel with a break. I shot an Elk last year 2023 it was only 230 yards away. I hand load and I found a hot load that is very accurate in my rifle.I use Superformance powder and I have chronograph it at over 3,000 fps. My son has the 6.5 PRC and mine is almost as fast as his. I shot it exactly where I wanted to hit the bull and it did the job. The bull just stood there like he wasn't hit. At first I thought I missed. He stood there for a few seconds and then started to walk back into the trees and it just fell over. My grandson had shot a nice bull 15 minutes before with a 270 and he shot it five times and it went down. Then mine walked out and one shot and it was over. It was a great time that I will never forget. Thank you so much for a great cartridge and for all of your work.
You guy’s are killing it,another great talk and information
Thanks so much 🙏
@Hornady, you guys just keep knocking it out of the park with these podcasts! Great work again, and keep them coming! I have enjoyed them all, but if you guys could find a way to keep doing them from time to time with Dave as well as Jeff Siewert, that’d be amazing!
Much appreciated!
Learned a lot here, thank you.
Love - Hate relationship with Hornady… the 6 Arc markedly reduced access to 6.5 Grendel cartridges and although I’m brand loyal, the dollars and cents aspect of Hornady hurts an old man’s heart.
Thanks to Dave and Joe ! Always enjoy the podcast. My grandson is 7 years old and killed his first deer last year. Micro Midas 6.5 Cm at 157 yards and dropped a 7 point in his tracks.143 eldx
I got lucky by finding an RPR in 6.5CM with a nice scope and bipod for a great price early in 2018. I didn't really believe the store owner when he told me it only had half a box rounds through it if that, but the barrel did speed up quite a bit. He told me the original owner could not justify having such a setup and only being able to shoot it to 80 yards. I've only taken it to 400 yards so far, but I was shooting at a 4 inch diameter plate. I have three 308 rifles, but the 6.5CM has definitely made it's place.
In 2016 I was still college I saved just enough money to buy my first rifle for hunting and it was Savage model 10 predator hunter with 24 inch medium heavy barrel I put my old Leupold mark 4 4.5-14x50, I bought a few boxes of Hornady 140 Amax. I shot group after group well under a inch most under a 1/2 of a inch. A few days later I set up a 12x12 gong at 430 yards first time to ever shoot that far ever. Dialed my scope then easily centered punched that sucker. I am now a 6.5 creedmoor fan boy now and own 3 rifles in this caliber 2 bolt guns and a gas gun and now reload for all them. I always keep plenty of 140 ELDMs and ELDXs on the bench at all times.
I have to 6.5 CM and going to get a 6.5 PRC in the future. Thanks for all your hard work for us!
Right on
Excellent episode, To some extent the 6.5 Creedmoor is a victim of its own, overwhelming success. I think the biggest reason there are Creedmoor haters is they go into a store and everything is 6.5 Creedmoor. 75% or better of rifles seem to be only that on the shelf, though not in the catalog. The stores are trying to make money so they stock what they know sells. I have had a 6.5 Creedmoor for years, shortly after Ruger started chambering it. My favorite rifle today, though eyeing a one of the new PRC's or the Western for when I need the extra legs, or likely both.
Thank you for such an amazing cartridge. I started shooting 6.5CM in 2016 with a custom AR-10. First round hits out to 1050 yards
Sure!!!!!! . Id have to see that. From A fresh start and hitting at 1050 first shot. . I see 30year seasoned professionals that shoot every week. That can't do that every time. Especially outa a gas gun. I call bs.
@@REDNECKROOTS I was surprised too, amazing what is possible when you have good data from a Kestrel and 4D software. The group I was shooting with was just as surprised as I was
Personally, I prefer the 7mm-08 for hunting. Once I switched to using it, I've never looked back nor doubted it
I was looking for a tack driving target rifle. I knew 6.5 Creedmoor was the cartridge. There were several offerings on the market; I went with the Ruger RPR. I almost for a Browning X-bolt in 6.5 PRC but ammo was SCARCE for that one. The 6.5CM was all over the place, and this was right at the start of the covid ammo crash.
But I've prevailed, and this thing is sub-MOA all day long even on a bad day. If I do my part it's in the 0.3 grouping. Part of that is the rifle, part is the load (I do my own) and part of it is the shooter. But when they all come together, wow, it's damned fun to shoot.
Love the history and the stories behind it
Being a Swede, I really like the 6,5x55 Swedish for both practical but also patriotic reasons. But after enjoying this podcast with the creators of the Creedmoor, it is quite humbling to see the meticulous approach that went into the design and how it turned out. Might need to give it a try 😉
Great to hear!
I was showing my 6.5CM to an air force kid last year and he really liked it, but said he'd just bought the 6.5 Swede and was going to stick with it :) It's a good round!
Thank you guys!! Great podcast!! I was questioning my purchase of a 6.5 cm not longer questioning.
One of the largest Elk I've ever seen harvested was by a fifteen year old girl with a 6.5 Creedmoor. Just under 300 yards, excellent shot. The Elk did a 10 yard circle and tipped over.
What bullet?
You guys should consider doing a factory tour video.
I used to hate the Creedmoore. I preferred the 308 for hunting. Then I discovered quality bonded and copper bullets and I’m considering one.
i was the same. so were my friends. all coming from military backgrounds we were all about the 308. had a chance to shoot a 6.5CM and was shocked at the lower recoil and tight group without even trying. decided to get a cheap rifle, $400 range, and tey it out. bought a Ruger American and put a Vortex scope on it. that rifle has replaced my old trusty Remington 700 as my go to deer rifle.
There’s many stories similar to yours. Thanks for sharing!
I've had 6.5x55 Swed for years which is fab.
The 1:8" twist that makes the magic happen. It gives me bullets up to 160gr which hit woodland stags hard. And then I have 123-140 gr for target use.
And now the Yanks have 'discovered' it, with the attendent noise. Us Europeans have known that Herr Mauser was about 130yrs ahead of y'all. 😂
Yank here-you Europeans definitely pioneered modern cartridges. If you think about it, it’s amazing how little has actually been improved upon since the 6.5x55 and the 7x57 you’ve all been shooting since the 1890’s.
@flynnryder7798 Hi Flynn, yes, the 7x57 is good too, although I've never owned one myself. In 7mm, I went straight to 284Win Shehane (for FClass use)..... so 100% yank 😂
So I will admit right now that I was a little bit of a 6.5 creedmoor hater or more of a sceptic. I love 308 always have and still do but when I got my first 6.5 creedmoor I loved it just for the fact that it was so easy to load for. 308 it's nice but it's way more picky with bullet choice and powder choice. I have put three different powders and six different bullets through my creedmoor and all of them shoot around ½ MOA even during a powder test the groups are under 1 MOA. I still think 308 is a better caliber to train with because it doesn't Buck the wind as good but if I want to shoot cloverleaf groups I pick my 6.5 creedmoor. I am testing and doing load development for the 142gn SMK BTHP right now on my channel
I’ve hunted in Hawaii with a 300 WM for the last 25 years. The recoil and noise of the 300 WM is not as cool as it used to be. I have transitioned to the 6.5 CM and LOVE IT! The only regret I have is that I should’ve switched a long time ago. My 300 WM is now relegated to back of my gun safe. All hail the 6.5 CM! 🙌🏼
I love the 300WM, have two rifles in that caliber. But if I want to shoot more than 10 rounds a day, the 6.5CM is my go-to. I've actually been thinking about selling or trading in one of my 300s to get another 6.5, as my RPR is a bit hefty to carry around in the woods :)
What is there to hunt in Hawaii? Parrots?
It's great to hear the inventors of the cartridge dispell some of the myths and capabilities. The only question I had left was the elk hunting one. But it Sounds like the extra size and power of previous cartridges were meant to make up for less than super precision. When you can get sub MOA out of a hunting rifle/round and place it exactly where it will drop it dead, then why would you need anything else for average North American game?
Thank you for sharing the 6.5 Creed development process story.
Our pleasure!
The 6.5 Creedmoor. It does it all for me. From killing game out to just over 900 yds to impacting tgts out to 2300 yds. I’m on my 5th Creedmoor barrel and learning more about this cartridge all of the time. Being supersonic to 1400 yds it outclasses the awesome 308 win which is supersonic to about 800 yds on a good day. I still absolutely love the 308 win. Great content!!!!
I think a typical 308 remains supersonic out to 1000 yards.
@@CallOFDutyMVP666 the 175 smk at 2600 fps goes trans around 870 yds. At 70 degrees and with a station pressure of 28.50 in/hg. The 168 smk is a little closer to 800 yds I guess. I miss spoke, sorry.
If you buy bullets developed after 1995 you can reach out further. My 20” 308 is supersonic at 1200 yards with factory ammo.
@@K-bob_45 that’s interesting!! What bullet, speed and environment please, I’d like to copy the recipe of your factory load. Or are you just being sarcastic ?Any info on your factory load will honestly be appreciated!! Thanks!!!
@@wvlongshooter3912 factory berger gold medal match 185’s. This ammo clocks 2620 from my barrel. My elevation is 500 ft ASL, baro was 30 and temp was ~90. 14.1 mils was dead on at 1200
It is such a joy to shoot. I'm a .308 guy and am now grateful 6.5 has become so easy to find.
For me the hate comes from 2 things: 1) very vocal people who DRAMATICALLY exaggerate (and/or misunderstand) the capabilities of the 6.5 creedmoor 2) people like me worked hard to get their prized rifle shooting as well as the 6.5 does in $400 rifles out of the box and struggled to accept that we wasted our time/money and efficiency really is king.
Creed is a solution looking for a problem.
I love Hornady 6.5 CM ammo in my S&W Performance Center AR-10. And my rifle thanks you too! A much better level of performance than I ever expected! “Excellence” is an under statement!
Awesome to hear!
I have 2 suggestions. I think the 7mms are going to take off in part due to the 6.5 and 7mm prc. I’d like a 7mm Grendel and a 7mm using the 6.5 prc case. A bumped up 708 without being a magnum strength 7mm prc.
Yep… 175 grain Eldx going 2600 fps at the muzzle still has 1500 ft/lbs at 500 yards.
A 2.5 MOA shooter in field conditions can still miss the wind call by 5 miles per hour and still hit a 20 inch circle at 500.
I'm soo tired of the 6.5 creedmoor haters! It is what it is, and its great at what its for. Its a wonderful general purpose cartridge! Is it an elephant gun? Probably not. Are you ever gonna hunt elephants? Probably not. Is it an elk cartridge a 9000 yards? Probably not. Do you have any business shooting at an elk at 90000 yards? Probably not. Its an excellent hunting cartridge for a short action and at reasonable ranges. Its an excellent cartridge for a short action for plinkin targets at long range. It can't do EVERYTHING, but its damn good at what it does!
When are you guys gonna bring back your 5.45x39mm product line?
I made the biggest mistake ever and sold my .243, i could hit anything anywhere with that little tack driver. But a friend needed something for her kid to get into hunting and i had the perfect setup. I've filled multiple freezers with that little rifle. So I'm sitting here doing research on what my next freezer filler will be and i was pretty set on the Creedmoor, until now. I'm getting ready to head to town to go find one. Ruger is about an hour ish from my driveway so they're a frontrunner, plus I've been shooting their products for over 30 years, I've had much success with Savage as well. The first rifle i bought with my own money was a Savage when i was 15 years old. Only because the Ruger was $45 more and i couldn't wait 2 weeks hahaha. Thank you Hornady 😎
I have two 6.5’s. One is a .264 WM I built on a Ruger #1 action, the other is a Sig Cross in 6.5 Creedmoor. I load 143 ELDX in the .264. I shoot the Outfitter line of ammunition in the Sig, and will be loading CX’s and ELDX’s once I have enough brass. I’ve shot everything from gophers to moose with Hornady bullets. They have been my go to for 40 years.
Researched the 6.5 cm for 2 years. After repeated comments of "boringly accurate " sold me .trained on m14s
I’ll admit I got acceptable results with factory ammo, but my RPR shoots under 1/2 MOA with 6.5 Creedmoor hand loads. Guys at matches roll their eyes at my “budget junk” and have no idea.
I wish I could like this comment a few times. I don't participate in any matches yet, but my 6.5CM RPR with my handloads has either surprised or upset a few shooters at the range
Same here - I just can't figure out which is my favorite load as there are so many choices. I really like the Nosler 140 custom but they've become hard to find. The ELDM is here and there, in 140 and 147 - can't find a box of 143s to try out. Barnes Match Burners have been decent, and Berger 130 VLDs are great but spendy and again, hard to find. Not really taken with the Sierra 120s though, for my rifle. But - like you, I get sub-MOA all the time with any of them.
First world problems....
I've got a savage axis in a Boyd's at one stock have over 4000 rounds through the factory barrel and still shoots moa. Have shot. .375 inch groups before I finally shot it out. Would still drop meat out to 300 without a thought
The timing,
Perfected brass,
Perfected bullets,
at the time, the perfection of the semi auto magazine.
Many people were ahead of their time. This came out perfectly. It mimics 6.5x55 performance, which means it's capable of taking anything in North America. Soft, easy to shoot, easy to load. Its literally the 30-30 recoil, meets 25-06 velocity with 100-120gr, 160gr looong bullets, for bigger game, reliably feed in an AR10...
I am stuck on short suppressed bbls so I run the 123s. Recently had a key mount pinned to a 14.5 bbl and she has been my go to as of late
I love my 6.5 Creedmoor! Also got me into hand loading, and man your 140 ELD-Ms work great for me.
Right on
I seem to like to 6.5 more every time I shoot it. I had trouble with my Remington 721 trigger and use my boys Savage Axis 6.5 Creedmoor on a real nice 9-point this year dropped it right 175 yards was very impressed
Thank you guys
Just getting into the 6.5 game. Started out with a 6.5 Grendel 20" AR-15 build my youngest son was the real push for me to actually build an AR-10 he built a .224 Valkyrie all on his own. He chose the cartridge, barrel, handguard basically the majority of the components, I just supplied a completed 80% lower that was possibly not extremely well machined. That's the coolest thing ever, here I am a certified gunsmith since 2002 and I'd never built an actual AR platform rifle. Considering I spent 11 years under the thumb if the US Navy and shot the Hell out of some slick weapons in conjunction with NSW and in the fleet, IBU/MIUWU inshore security units. My son did the Valkyrie, slapped together a .308 AR-10 is currently building a .300 Blackout pistol. Since he lit that fire I'm waiste deep in multiple lightweight 16" 5.56 uppers, multiple complete lowers. Now I'm doing 9mm Colt style, one AR-10 .308 (upper is long completed just need to complete the 80% lower for that one.) I've already decided to just build a 6.5 Creedmore AR-10 so I have already gotten the upper and barrel, just going to grab up everything else after I finally make space to actually lock them away😂
I recently used my creedmore to shoot at a clay bird on a dead tree about 400 yards I forgot that my scope wasn’t ffp. I was rested on a four wheeler seat and couldn’t figure out why I wasn’t hitting with my hold over. I started with the scope fully magnified 5 shots then half magnified 5 shots. When I checked my groups both were under 3 inches the first was under by 4 inches the second was over by one inch. I walked away with confidence that if it was a deer I was in the kill zone.
My daughter has been successful with her 6.5 creedmoor. My favorite modern cartridge is the 6.5 PRC.
Hahahaha, I love the "It's kinda a big deal" title.
What ever happened to the .300RCM? That was my fav deer round when it was available for that short time years ago. Then it just disappeared. I never understood why. Its awesome.
I have three 6.5 Creedmoor rifles. The Thompson Center LLR long range rifle. The Thompson Center compass and the PSA AR-10 6.5 Creedmoor. I shoot Hornady ammo. Now I reload all that Hornady brass with Hornady bullets. I have around a thousand rounds of ELD-X 143 and ELD-MATCH 147 round with a BC of .697. I love shooting that 147 grain bullet.
So you're the reason I can't find any more 147 ELD-Ms! :)
Do you shoot reloads in your ar10? I have an ar10 in 6,5 CR and was curious
And a follow up: I'm in Australia, and as such your website prevents me from creating a Hornady account. Because of this I cannot sign into your apps correctly as I need a Hornady account to do so. Is it possible to open this up to more than USA and Canada.
Shouldn't need a Hornady account, rather just an email that you already have to get going on the apps
First was 6.5 × 55 then 264 win then 6.5 300 wb and now 6.5 Creedmoor and I have all four of them. It has always been a great caliber. Glad the Creedmoor brought to the mainstream.
Customer and listener question: will Hornady be bringing out any more .25 projectiles for faster twist barrels? 137gr ELD-X? 140gr CX?
I think that a major problem with the 30 TC was the SAAMI max OAL of 2.66". I like the cartridge, but know that it is not worth the trouble of getting one. Although long-ogive .308" bullets were not common at the time, the decision to limit the official OAL to well below the normal 2.8" to 2.86" available in virtually every short action means that it is unlikely that factory ammo that takes full advantage of the short case will ever be available.
It works great for me; it will outshoot me all day long.
Right on
Great hearing the history from the brainchild's. Anther advantage of the 6.5CR is the availability of small primer brass. Large rifle primers are unobtanium in my area, but I can still get the SRP's. This has allowed me to be able to still shoot my 6.5..
I've been hoarding my LRPs and have no small primer brass. Whenever I find the LRPs I try to get a box. Weird how they just *poof* went extinct!
I used to be one of those Creedmoor haters, then I was fortunate to win a precision rifle chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor. Now I really love the cartridge it ticks all the boxes for me, low recoil, excellent accuracy even at long range and easy to reload for. Now if only I could find a decent supply of primers.
I even had a 6.5 CM 5R barrel put in my Scar 17. My new neck down caliber rifle using similar principles of 6.5 CM is my new Barrett 416 model 99 which is a necked down 50 BMG and it shoots flatter and farther un phased by wind. 😎
I was gifted a 6.5 mauser m18 by a friend. Best gift ever
I don't get the hate towards the 6.5 Creedmore. The more I understand about it the more I'd want one.
Why do Americans get looked at like we cant shoot. I hear that all the time. We are the one country that allows its people to literally have piles n piles of ammo n rifles in our possession. Americans shoot more then any ither country. It only makes sense to me that practice make perfect and us Americans practice alot. Think thats a label that was given outa jealousy, and envy of our way of Life.
Pretty sure a majority of Americans shoot very well - But what is up with having to reinvent everything just to call it American?
You're referring to the Aussie comment? Yeah a little dick-waving but it never hurt anyone.
Spot on
A friend of mine accepted a deputy position in rural Wyoming a few years back.
He was a cop for 11 years and an 8 year old kid gave him pointers at the range that improved his shooting.
If Americans couldn't shoot, we'd be called British today. 😎
Listened while loading up some 140 ELD-Ms 👍
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Creedmoor haters are usually ridiculous. It has so many things going for it and as long as you keep it in it’s lane, it will never be a problem.
1000+ yard target rifle✅
500 yards and in on deer sized game✅
Low recoil✅
Affordable high quality ammo that’s easy to find✅
Tons of rifle options readily available on the shelves✅
The thorn is that 308 does those exact same things nearly as well in case of target shooting, and arguably better in the case of hunting. I completely understand why 6.5 cm took off in competition circles, but the rest is just a result of marketing
@@K-bob_45 depending on your bullet 6.5 will have lower recoil than 308 and 6.5 is designed to push higher BC bullets. That’s why some people prefer it. 308 has better hunting bullet options because of its ability to go heavier. But the fact that they are similar has nothing to do with what 6.5 can do. It’s capabilities are what they are and it does a lot of things really well.
@@masone4589 “the fact they are similar has nothing to do with what it can do”. Yes actually it does and that’s the point. Going from 308 to 6.5 creedmoor is like having a 1/2 ton pickup and just getting another 1/2 ton. They aren’t far enough apart to warrant jumping from one to another UNLESS you are on the clock in a competition setting. Outside of that there is virtually no difference in capability
@@K-bob_45 I would disagree I think there is a difference at distance but that’s not what I meant. 6.5 has it merits and people hating on it is mostly just old guys that don’t like change. If you don’t want to change to it that’s fine but it doesn’t make it less capable.
@@masone4589 the only tangible advantage as far as I can tell is reduced recoil. If you put a modern bullet in the 308 the hit probability disparity gets much, much smaller and retained energy favors 308 the whole way. Again, for competitions I totally get it. For anything not on the clock I wouldn’t trade a 308 for a 6.5cm, especially if I already had a nice 308
I have a 6.5 cm. I also have a 308. What I would like Hornady to do , is make more bullet weights available for the 6.5 cm. . A 180 gr. Would be nice, even in a ballistic tip or sst. Also , please continue making the RN in 160 gr. . I use that for a condition round with effect. I do reload. I do use your book as well as cross referencing from other reloading books. Thank you
Thank you.
I got my mossberg patriot in 6.5 Creedmoor for my girlfriend to be able to hunt with me. That rifle shoots such small groups with factory ammo that you wouldn't believe me if I told you the numbers
It sounds like Dennis DeMille was looking for a 6ARC with a .308 bolt face (~6BR Norma). I've seen a 6 Creed at an XTC match once and never a 6.5CM. I've also never seen a factory rifle chambered in 6.5CM that would work in XTC, Midrange prone, or Long range prone. The Tikka T3x Sporter is the closest but has its faults.
Still have an active 6.5cm Impact 737r w/ Stuteville 26" M24 & it's a .2 minute rifle everyday all day.
For as long as they made scopes, I bought Nikon. They're better in every way; than everything that was double the price. I still have every one I bought and still use them every year. I picked up a few more rifles in the past few years and they've been sitting in the safe. I decided to go ahead and get some glass for a couple of them, so I started looking. I decided to stay under a grand for the safe queens but wanted to be able to take them to the range, now and then. I have looked at (physically) at basically everything under a thousand, with a 50mm or larger objective and high magnification. Arken won, hands down. I bought two Ep5's. They are incredible for a scope, under a grand. I was on the fence for a few days because I really liked the features of the Burris Eliminator 3 and I found them in a couple of places on the web, for well below MSRP. Ultimately I chose Arken because I don't want to risk buying the Burris and having it turn into a paperweight. I also want to support fellow service men and women who are trying to carve out their piece of the pie. 🤙
I had finally talked myself into a Creemoor and then you made the PRC
Could you do a 6.5 Creedmoor v 6.8 western
Oh yeah baby!!!!
I like the long action best over regular & short action on 30cal that's why I love my 338 Lapua Magnum
I think the problem was that so many people that say how good the 6.5mm could be went with 260 Rem it never got any love by the gun writers or the internet experts. So when the 6.5 Creedmoor came along it felt like a cheap attempt to pull the rug out from under the 260 Rem. Same thing with the 6mm ARC versus the cult culture that had been necking the 6.5 Grendel down to 6mm. Add into that all of the proprietary cartridges that had been released by everyone else that just went no place and did not stick around! So from a consumer stand point a lot of us where jaded myself included.
Thanks for the video
Our pleasure!
An older expert shooter referred to the cartridge as the “man bun” of cartridges. This was his response when I asked about building one.
Haha - some people don't adapt well to new stuff. It's a great cartridge and in center fire it's the easiest shooting rifle I own.
did Creedmore get his share back in the day?
Please,where did the name "creedmore" come from specifically.
I have been told that the 6.5CM is superior to the .243 because the barrel life is so much longer and that a .243 will be “shot out” after 1000 rounds. What can I do to extend the life of my .243 barrel? Granted, if/when I have to re-barrel, the new one will be probably be in 6.5CM.
The main thing is don't get it too hot when shooting it.
You guys at Hornady should make a commercial offering of 223 loaded with 80gr ELDm bullets that have an OAL that will work with a Wylde chamber. Federal has loaded ammo like that, not sure why you don't offer that.
That’s an extremely niche request. There are only a few dozen people in the world who would maybe even consider that. John Holliger designed that chamber for NM competition so they can single load for the long range at the sacrifice of fitting in a magazine. Most people on the internet don’t understand that chamber. It is great for what it’s designed to do, but it’s not the magic solution so many blogs present.
@@jtmcfarland3512 John Holliger did no such thing. Bill Wylde designed that chamber in the early 80s to improve the accuracy of Canadian M855 ball ammunition that was issued to competitors in their matches. Asking Hornady to support a sport that has thousands of participants is no more niche, than custom designing a cartridge for Dennis DeMille. By their own admission on the podcast, 6.5 Creedmoor was an overnight success that took 10 years. There are 10K + classified high power shooters, most of which shoot Service Rifle with Wylde chambered rifles. Heck the National Trophy matches had almost 900 shooters that traveled to Camp Perry to participate, all with AR style rifles.
@@bpm990d Sorry. IDK how I got the name wrong, but I stand by the rest of what I said. Certain aspects of the chamber could improve M193 (M855 is a joke for accuracy), but not optimize it. The main purpose was to squeeze the best performance out of the longer range targets. Most of the real top competitors handload. Different reamer companies have different machine tolerances and an off-the-shelf offering is going to be more sacrifice than the vast majority is willing to make. It’s not a quality issue. Hornady makes great stuff. It’s a tolerance stacking issue when mass marketing for universal compatibility. It’s not gonna happen.
@@jtmcfarland3512 The only dimension that would be off for the SAAMI spec would be the OAL. I know what tolerance stacking is, but I have no idea how that relates to this discussion. Are you saying that different reamer manufacturers offer 223 Wylde chambers with slightly different dimensions? If so that's no different than literally all other SAAMI reamers. They all have a tolerance, yet commercial ammunition seems to be available for them. Like I said, Federal & others have offered loaded ammunition with 80+ gr. projectiles. Would be nice if Hornady would support the largest center fire rifle sport in the US.
@@bpm990d 223 Wylde is not a SAAMI accepted cartridge (another reason Hornady is very unlikely to produce it) which means reamers can vary much more than SAAMI min/max. There’s also wear on individual reamers and dies as they get used barrel after barrel and round after round. Within each manufacturer, you’ll have their own acceptable tolerances, then add in other maker… you get the point. For competition like “steel challenge” there’s much more acceptable error. For something like NM or F-class, you’re much better off loading your own rounds like all the other top shooters. Queue rabbit hole.
Two things that also helped: The movie American Sniper and Browning being an early adopter.
I’m now using a 450 bushmaster and the subsonic Ammo y’all have is accurate up to 25 yards. After that it’s all over the place. Luckily my hunting is close range. Can you please try harder to get more accurate with these after 25 yards please? I use these for hunting deer. I had to sell my 300 BO because the subsonic Ammo was not killing the deer. Thank you