In the epilogue for my playthrough there was a scene in the game where Withers stood in front of a mural to the dead three, chastised them and insulted them for their petty insignificance in a very vengeful tone. It ended as if he was literally banishing them "begone and trouble the world no more!" if i recall it correctly, which in all likelihood could imply he is literally banishing them and reconvening all of their spheres onto himself. Also of note, this was literally the last little scene prior to the fade to black and credits, very much compatible with his title, The Lord of the End. So yeah imo Withers is pretty much either actual Jergal (minus insect like features) or an avatar of the deity walking around in Faerun.
I never really got into D&D, so these lore videos are cool. They're useful for fleshing out the world for me before BG3 comes out of Early Access, great stuff, keep it up.
Larian already confirmed, what also was written in one of the books you can find in the libary, that he is in fact Jergal. Or in correct terms, an avatar of Jergal.
Yeah I think Withers (which he gains the name when you met him in the camp), which is also a reference to the undead knight in Divinity Original Sin 2, is probably serving Jergal or Kelemvor and is referencing him when he wakes up. "He as always is correct again".
@@odst123451 Hard to say, he basically gave up the portfolio of Murder, the dead and Strife and semi retired to a quiet unlife of being the scribe of the dead, he has no knowledge of the time since he was boxed up so to speak but someone, probably the god who put him in the box in the first place, willingly. (Might be AO or Kelemvor or some other god he's referring to, like if he is just the Chosen of Jergal he might be referring to Jergal "He is right again as ALWAYS" Seems a little miffed about that. Jergal knowing that it's important to Faerun that new gods are born/reborn from time to time to keep a balance in the realms. Sorry this was long but its just some ideas that were kicking around
@@odst123451 spoiler Post credit scene. Withers goes to a mural of the three and sais something like: "You three thought you can deceive me... " etc. It's on youtube. Better see it there since the scene appears depending on how you play the game.
@@ManticoreRO I’ve already seen it twice in-game. Nothing about it specifically states that withers is Jergyl. Going off dialogue and checks in-game. Withers seems to be a chosen of Jergyl and not Jergyl himself. If I’m remembering correctly, Jergyl looks like a insect dude.
I just wanted to encourage you to keep working on this channel and to thank you for the excellent work you are doing. I stumbled across you channel yesterday and have watched/listened to your videos quite compulsively since. I just noticed the number of subs you have and was shocked; the detail and quality of your videos is suggestive of a much larger channel and I really hope, when BG3 releases and (hopefully) gains the traction the EA suggests it deserves, that your channel can ride the wave along with the game. Your voice and writing is exceptional, in some videos it's like listening to a well read audiobook of the Silmarillion. I have noticed a few audio hiccups and minor editing mistakes which I am sure will be ironed out as you progress but genuinely I wish you all the success you deserve. I anticipate you will find it should you continue in this manner. Thanks again for the wonderful lore content.
It's a *"religion"* check and not a simple perception one, so it does makes sense. But it'd technically most likely to be known by a knowledgeable wizard such as gale or maybe shadowheart as a cleric and possibly Laezel by her outerplane travels and discoveries, so anyone really...
Fair enough. Looks like I made a mistake there but the only ones I would say are Gale or Shadowheart. Laezel is really just a grunt, so I doubt she would know.
In a sense it is strange that Larian has given Jergal an obvious role in the story given how obscure he normally is. If anything, it only makes me more curious to see what role he will play in the game. Great video.
Curious to see your opinion on this now with the full release...I have some theories. Just discovered this channel, cheers on this vid and many others!
I strongly believe so. I'm tempted to install nwn 2 mask of the betrayer because I vaguely recall an old temple related to him. Need more lore deep divers!
I don’t mind any character that passes a skill checks set DC to know who Jergal is, but perhaps because of how lesser known he is the DC should be set a little higher. With the ability to later on learn the information even if the DC is failed.
Jergal looking like a mummified insectis because he was the god of the dead since primordial times when dinosaurs giant insects and monstrous beast roamed the world
Just a note: Jergal isn't obscure. He's just not as relevant. He's basically become the god of morticians, funerals and cemeteries, so anyone in Toril who's ever been to a funeral or lost a loved one has probably at least seen or heard lip service paid to him. They may not be familiar with his history or dogma, but it's no stretch of the imagination at all for anyone to be able to recognize his name or imagery.
Right?! The casual name drop of Jergal blew me away. Jergal should be decently known, since he uncharacteristically relinquished his status to mortals, but just a casual mention?? You can't name drop a creation of Shar and Selune without some context! Next, we will walk by a tree, someone casually mention Chauntea? I better hear more about her and Jergal!
In the epilogue for my playthrough there was a scene in the game where Withers stood in front of a mural to the dead three, chastised them and insulted them for their petty insignificance in a very vengeful tone. It ended as if he was literally banishing them "begone and trouble the world no more!" if i recall it correctly, which in all likelihood could imply he is literally banishing them and reconvening all of their spheres onto himself.
Also of note, this was literally the last little scene prior to the fade to black and credits, very much compatible with his title, The Lord of the End.
So yeah imo Withers is pretty much either actual Jergal (minus insect like features) or an avatar of the deity walking around in Faerun.
Or a chosen of the diety.
@odst123451 definitely not a chosen. He mentions how he's bound by rules to not interfere directly
If you look at his golden face stuff, it vaguely aligns with the seams between Jergal's insect-like face.
@@odst123451He's too powerful to just be a chosen mortal, no chosen mortal can just snap their fingers to control death
The Dead 3 were just disappointing knucklebone pieces. I.E. cursed dice.
I never really got into D&D, so these lore videos are cool. They're useful for fleshing out the world for me before BG3 comes out of Early Access, great stuff, keep it up.
Happy to oblige you!
Larian already confirmed, what also was written in one of the books you can find in the libary, that he is in fact Jergal. Or in correct terms, an avatar of Jergal.
I don't really have a D&D background so these lore videos really help me to get into game and understand the history. Thanks for the video.
You are exactly the person I made the video for. I am glad it pleased you.
@@spellandshield Haha, well I appreciate that. I'm subbed and ready for more!
Yeah I think Withers (which he gains the name when you met him in the camp), which is also a reference to the undead knight in Divinity Original Sin 2, is probably serving Jergal or Kelemvor and is referencing him when he wakes up. "He as always is correct again".
*spoiler*
As we know now, Wither IS Jergal.
Where did you discover that info?
At best, we know that Withers is a chosen of Jergal, not Jergal himself.
@@odst123451 Hard to say, he basically gave up the portfolio of Murder, the dead and Strife and semi retired to a quiet unlife of being the scribe of the dead, he has no knowledge of the time since he was boxed up so to speak but someone, probably the god who put him in the box in the first place, willingly. (Might be AO or Kelemvor or some other god he's referring to, like if he is just the Chosen of Jergal he might be referring to Jergal "He is right again as ALWAYS" Seems a little miffed about that. Jergal knowing that it's important to Faerun that new gods are born/reborn from time to time to keep a balance in the realms.
Sorry this was long but its just some ideas that were kicking around
@@odst123451 spoiler
Post credit scene. Withers goes to a mural of the three and sais something like: "You three thought you can deceive me... " etc. It's on youtube. Better see it there since the scene appears depending on how you play the game.
@@ManticoreRO I’ve already seen it twice in-game. Nothing about it specifically states that withers is Jergyl. Going off dialogue and checks in-game. Withers seems to be a chosen of Jergyl and not Jergyl himself.
If I’m remembering correctly, Jergyl looks like a insect dude.
It's fun to imagine that there's a (demi)god around every corner in BG3.
Well, in a sense, there is something divine going on so that kind of makes sense?
In all the BG games there is, though I don't think you'll be ascending to a godlike status in this one.
I agree with your idea regarding the undead in the crypt: it would be pretty on the nose for Larian to reveal him this early.
Withers Is def Jergal off of 1 comment: “I too still hold some power” this is almost definitely referencing his giving up of power to the dead 3
Another in an excellent series!
Thank you!
I just wanted to encourage you to keep working on this channel and to thank you for the excellent work you are doing. I stumbled across you channel yesterday and have watched/listened to your videos quite compulsively since. I just noticed the number of subs you have and was shocked; the detail and quality of your videos is suggestive of a much larger channel and I really hope, when BG3 releases and (hopefully) gains the traction the EA suggests it deserves, that your channel can ride the wave along with the game. Your voice and writing is exceptional, in some videos it's like listening to a well read audiobook of the Silmarillion. I have noticed a few audio hiccups and minor editing mistakes which I am sure will be ironed out as you progress but genuinely I wish you all the success you deserve. I anticipate you will find it should you continue in this manner. Thanks again for the wonderful lore content.
It's a *"religion"* check and not a simple perception one, so it does makes sense.
But it'd technically most likely to be known by a knowledgeable wizard such as gale or maybe shadowheart as a cleric and possibly Laezel by her outerplane travels and discoveries, so anyone really...
Fair enough. Looks like I made a mistake there but the only ones I would say are Gale or Shadowheart. Laezel is really just a grunt, so I doubt she would know.
Deities of the dead, always a fun topic.
Sweet lore.
In a sense it is strange that Larian has given Jergal an obvious role in the story given how obscure he normally is. If anything, it only makes me more curious to see what role he will play in the game. Great video.
Curious to see your opinion on this now with the full release...I have some theories.
Just discovered this channel, cheers on this vid and many others!
I love Jergal. He's my favorite Forgotten Realms deity, especially after Baldur's Gate 3.
His portrayal has changed a lot in the game.
The Dark Urge origin pretty much confirms Withers is Jergal.
It is still fun to watch a second time. So many people including myself, think he is Withers, I think it is interesting that you do not.
He literally is Jergal. You can read a book in bg3 (I think in act 3?) where it says "Jergal has taken the form of withers to wander Faerun"
Jergal the most based deity
so is withers jergal? 🤔
I strongly believe so. I'm tempted to install nwn 2 mask of the betrayer because I vaguely recall an old temple related to him. Need more lore deep divers!
Most likely. If you watch the good ending post credit screen it erased the doubt for me. It seems like he used his power to cast the dead three out.
There is NO WAY, that withers is not Jergal.
I don’t mind any character that passes a skill checks set DC to know who Jergal is, but perhaps because of how lesser known he is the DC should be set a little higher. With the ability to later on learn the information even if the DC is failed.
Jergal is together with selune and shar are the three oldest gods in dnd
Shar and Selune as one deity is older than existence, Jergal did not exist yet. And, Mystra (Mystryl) is older as their offspring. So no.
Jergal looking like a mummified insectis because he was the god of the dead since primordial times when dinosaurs giant insects and monstrous beast roamed the world
But who will be the big bad in Baldur’s Gate 4 if the dead 3 are banished? I need more!!!
Withers
Good to know gods have retirement plans
Just a note: Jergal isn't obscure. He's just not as relevant. He's basically become the god of morticians, funerals and cemeteries, so anyone in Toril who's ever been to a funeral or lost a loved one has probably at least seen or heard lip service paid to him. They may not be familiar with his history or dogma, but it's no stretch of the imagination at all for anyone to be able to recognize his name or imagery.
Right?! The casual name drop of Jergal blew me away. Jergal should be decently known, since he uncharacteristically relinquished his status to mortals, but just a casual mention?? You can't name drop a creation of Shar and Selune without some context!
Next, we will walk by a tree, someone casually mention Chauntea? I better hear more about her and Jergal!
To be fair, we actually get to see Mystra.
@@odst123451 OMG NO WAY
wait. Do I need Gale in my party for that?
@@cardiabardia439 Yes because you only see her through his story.
@@odst123451 dang. Oh well. I didn't want him in my party stealing my magic shit lol
@@cardiabardia439 He only asks for three items.
Uhm not to spoil but yes he is in the game, and very close.